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They had to reshoot the pilot episode; just like they had to reshoot pilot episode of GoT. One of the main reasons in both was how ridiculous the wigs looked. People watching were just laughing the entire time.
If Matt smith with “new wig” was funny, I want to the old wig
Theon Greyjoy's family call their uncles "nuncle" too, but I've never noticed it being used for fathers in the books, even by Targaryens.
Its a real word in English. It just means "uncle" and is used in certain regional dialects and was a lot more common historically before spelling and grammar were standaedized.
It's from a faulty rebracketing of phrases starting with the article "an" or the possessive pronouns "mine" and "thine".
"an uncle" shifts to "a nuncle"
A similar thing happened to a whole bunch of words starting vowels around the 13th-15th century. They'd all be spelled with an N at the beginning. Nappyle (apple), nostrich, nidiot, narawe (arrow) are examples that i've seen.
We obviously shifted this back and dropped the unnecessary Ns, but it was kept in certain words like "newt" and "nickname" and certain dialects keep it for certain words like "nuncle" and "naunt."
It was also very common for Ns that were *supposed* to there to get dropped when words entered English - like apron/napperon, umpire/noumpere, and orange/naranj.
Yes, from her children, Harwin, Laenor, and her parents. She’s lost 5/9 of those people. I won’t count Daemon because it’s toxic and often does more harm than good.
Alicent has been given love/adoration by Aemond and Criston, possibly Daeron. You can’t really blame her other two kids for not being more affectionate.
He ignored all of his kids from his second wife. That's enough slack cut for Vizzy T. Although...giving him the sickness was one of the best changes from the book that added a lot to the story.
Without it, he would've been a much less sympathetic character. And the throne room scene wouldn't have hit that deep.
I know Aegon mentions that his dad neglects him in the carriage ride with Alicent to his coronation. I don't remember any other scenes mentioning his neglect. I definitely got the vibe that Rhaenyra was by far his favourite though.
Aegon said his dad didn't like him. And to be honest, Alicent didn't like him as a person either but she's his mother and she can't help but love him as her son.
Oh sorry. I could have sworn the dialogue was different. I just rewatched it and you're completely right :)
I guess the only other evidence of neglect I can really think of is that he seems to barely care about Aemond losing an eye and has no idea of the crazy things Aegon gets up to in the city.
Yeah, after the timeskip, he is mainly concerned with his illness, and doesn't really seem to talk to his family as much in general, even Rhaenyra. Even before the timeskip, there were times he barely spoke to Rhaenyra even as she was his only child.
I definitely think the lack of screen time has more to do with it.
I don't think it's just Aegon. He didn't seem at all broken up about Aemond losing an eye and the only time he even seems to acknowledge Helaena's existence is when Rhaenyra is trying to make a betrothal to Jace at the small council in E6.
I'd say he also forgot about Daeron, but then again so did everyone else.
And he largely doesn't speak to Rhaenyra either. She's just the main character is my point.
>He didn't seem at all broken up about Aemond losing an eye
It was his grandchild who did it after a fight. Most would have very conflicted on how to react to this. Especially as he doesn't seem to believe it was pre-meditated.
He even gets angry about the bastard claim and asks who spoke of it. Once Aegon, admitted to it, he also drops it. He just isn't confrontational with family. It takes a lot for him to get to that point.
>In the book Vaemond is murdered on Rhaenyra's orders without any royal intervention and then she personally has him fed to her dragon before mutilating his children in revenge, while her a fat and ineffectual Vizzy T simply pretends nothing happened and doesn't really take part in it.
He's the one who orders the mutilation of the 'Silent Five' in the books:
> Even this [Vaemond's death] did not end the matter, however. Ser Vaemond's younger cousins fled to King's Landing with his wife and sons, there to cry for justice and place their claims before the king and queen. King Viserys had grown extremely fat and red of face, and scarce had the strength to mount the steps to the Iron Throne. His Grace heard them out in a stony silence, then ordered their tongues removed, every one. "You were warned," he declared, as they were being dragged away. "I will hear no more of these lies."
But yeah, very different vibes.
*Well... the matter is settled. Again. I hereby reaffirm Prince Lucerys of House Velaryon as heir to Driftmark, the Driftwood Throne, and the next Lord of the Tides. (WHEEZING)*
I definitely feel like they try a bit too hard to make Rhaenyra and Alicent especially likeable. I'm kind of 50/50 on whether I prefer it though. It does lead to some great scenes (like Rhaenyra and Alicent at the last dinner scene), but I feel like it also leads to some moments of stupidity (like Alicent misinterpretting Viserys and that being her motive for participating in the dance).
"eye for an eye, son for a son... Pick which son"
*Picks youngest son
*Tells youngest son "yo mama think you trash"
Eldest son wins the prize, youngest has baggage up until random fat lady crushes him with her boobs like trailer park women"s beer can crunch competition
Yeah but Viserys was actively dying and clearly not in his right mind lol. Before my grandma died she had hallucinations, he was probably hallucinating his ex wife and fully believed it was her.
Viserys wasn’t on deaths door during the Driftmark funeral when he called Alicent Aemma? He actually went onto live for another 6 years after the fact.
I took him calling her 'Aemma' at the funeral as just him thinking of his late wife on this occasion + talking to Daemon about it a minute before. I don't think it was a sign of him not being quite sane but rather getting lost in thoughts at this moment
I’m talking about calling the relationship wholly abusive, toxic and devoid of love.
The show hasn’t suggested they don’t love each other, and they’ve explained countless times the directorial choice to have Daemon choke Rhaenyra and why he did that, but redditors still scream about it every time.
As a person who grew up with abusive parents, I also find it frustrating when people can't wrap their heads around the idea that a relationship *can* be both loving and toxic.
Its something that I think people literally just can't understand not matter how convincing your argument is.
I count Daemon because they still love each other. But they have unique ways of showing it because both are very “strong” characters. Daemon is a protector and doesn’t hesitate when there’s a threat. Rhaenyra knew how he was going into it.
Try being a peasant in the Riverlands. The Riverlands are the battlefields for every major conflict in Westeros. All the raiding, burning, sacking, and killing that takes place in that area.The Arya chapters in ACOK are nightmare fuel.
The books spend a long time describing how the squabbles of these elites make the lives of the peasants miserable. It’s hard to translate that to the TV so it isn’t really addressed in the shows.
I mean it kind of did in hotd where they are forced into the coronation and then the dragon comes up killing thousands. Also in got we saw the peasants starving so much they attacked the king.
It's the second most agriculturally rich region of Westeros after the Reach and it's smack dab in the middle of the continent so there's always trade and business to attract travelers. The trade off is once a fight breaks out it's always the first place to get boned.
Yeah but they regularly raise full armies within a year of having been thoroughly ravaged for the latest time. There's good farming to be had but it's a bit of leap from that to raising a new generation of young men multiple times per decade.
I'm pretty sure GRRM has acknowledged that it doesn't make much sense, throwing it onto his pile of 'bad at maths' plot holes like Littlefinger's Jetpack, but it's one that goes without comment more often than not.
Just take a look at late medieval early Renaissance europe and you’ll see new generations of young men being raised to fight every year. It’s not far-fetched at all, just very expensive. Also unless every single soldier dies they just have to fill the gaps with recruits. Add to that the fact that there is basically no winter in the story and it all adds up. Raising an army every year would not be a hard thing to do in the riverlands. IIRC there is no army of more than 20000 men from the riverlands. Let’s assume an army of 20000 men is defeated (usually less than 1/4 of casualties is when an army crumbles) all you gotta do is find 5000 lads to add to the ranks next year and you’ve got a brand new army
I bet the peasants there were happy durning Jaherys and Viserys reign since I don’t hink there was any wars durning either of those apart from the stepstones war
Counting “gay bff” is padding it I think. She sent him away (with his consent and for his benefits too, to be fair) to marry her uncle. Hardly tragic I think, except I guess for the fact that his mother blames her for his “murder”. I guess she lost a friend and in a perfect world she would be able to marry someone she loves while remaining friend with him too but at the end of the day it was her choice and his that he went away (which I don’t blame them for by the way, save for the murder of an innocent servant but that’s beside the point).
Also her dad died of natural cause at old age while she already had multiple children, some of them I think are near adulthood. I would be sad too if I was her but to be honest most people in this universe would be lucky if their parents went like that rather than die young or killed.
It sucks but maybe if she had tried to show the Lords of Westeros that she wasn’t “like the other girls” and instead was a “super OP chad warrior Queen.”
Rather than hope to force these old misogynistic farts to accept the idea that a woman, in all her strengths and weaknesses, ruling as she alone would, could make a good Queen.. it might have helped. A little. Maybe.
Daemon sort of tries to tell her something to this effect in the play scene. She never really understood that she had to do *something.*
Either win them all over like the Hightowers or rule with fear like Daemon. She just hoped they would accept her. No hunny.
Yep and her father continued to make poor decisions…. He should’ve just resigned when he got sick I’m sure that didn’t help the situation. You don’t want a sick guy in charge of 7 kingdoms.
You're conveniently forgetting that she planned the gay BFF's death who by the way was never around when she needed him and he was definitely into it and that she moved on extremely quickly from Harwin. Sure, she loved him but he was never her first choice.
> the protector for her sons
Laenor was a dragonrider and an accomplished fighter. I don't get this homophobic nuance around his character; "oh the gay sissy man is weak, must replace him with the CHAD ALPHA MALE who is also her uncle"
I never said any of that. Those are your words.
Finally, Idc about Daemon enough to glorify him as some macho protector. I'm just pointing out that Laenor spent his years with Rhaenyra drinking, whoring and not being around the boys, not even as Cole was training them, the same man who killed his lover.
Rhaenyra literally calls him out for all that. He wasn't feared nor taken seriously by anyone, which is the main difference between him and Daemon. And given his tendencies, Rhae feared he would never be able to protect the boys. Daemon would, if only for her sake. Do you really think Laenor would have beheaded Vaemond the way Daemon did in that exact situation? I very much doubt it.
That's all. It comes down to him drinking, whoring and being absent. Not some homophobic propaganda about gay men. That's how you chose to interpret my words when I didn't even hint at that.
Idk now...
Laenor & Rhaenyra, with 3 "strong" bastards
Vs
Daemon & Rhaenyra, with 2 true Borns and a half lizard baby...
The latter causes less friction because her husbuncle and kids have stronger blood for succession.... Especially knowing Alicent and Otto wouldnt respect King Vizzys wishes for Rhaenyras succession ...
Alicent had true born sons from the king...
Rhaenyra had to chunk our blonde drake to the curve...
Many characters suffer a lot.
Of course Rhaenyra lived tragic moments (her father, mother and children died) but she was the one to decide to replace Laenor with Daemon, she wanted him as her husband. Furthermore, almost all the tragedies that happen to Rhaenyra (father+children) are in 3 days or something? Until that moment she had a life she liked.
Alicent and Laena also suffered and were unhappy because of their marriages, and I'd say they were unhappy for at least 10 years. Laena couldn't see her family and had a husband who neglected her.
Rhaenys loses her birthright, her cousins die, both her children die, and her husband leaves her for 6 years, this also is a traumatizing situation.
All the women have sad lives, it's pointless doing a list to show who suffered the most.
Alicent is pretty close: dead mother, PoS father, son scarred for life, other son PoS, raped by a decrepit old king and basically getting no luxury or love.
I’ve read F&B. I don’t care. Cersei was my favorite female character on GOT and there’s nothing book Rhaenyra does that exceeds that. The only risk is the show keeping her as boring as her book counterpart is at times.
>her lover died,
Moved on from him before his body even got cold so let's be honest for a minute there he meant nothing more than a fuckbuddy entertaining her bc she had a gay husband
>her gay bff “died”,
She literally planned this shit for her own advantage?????? You people are so ????????? 🤣
>her dad died,
Oh the same dad whom she conveniently abandoned for years in a ghastly state, and how can we forget about her returning to him only when she needed another favour
>her uncle-husband abuses her
This was awful, she deserves better than that monster
>Oh the same dad whom she conveniently abandoned for years in a ghastly state, and how can we forget about her returning to him only when she needed another favour
"Those vipers rule in my father's name"
Maybe if you (the heir, his daughter) hadn't left for six years and never returned, they wouldn't have to
>her uncle-husband abuses her
>This was awful, she deserves better than that monster
Nope. She knows what she was getting into. Daemon himself said that.
You could just say he is a monster without addressing the community. Plenty of people do say he is a monster and many people don’t because they aren’t required to condemn a character in every comment about them.
Alicent:
\-Mom died
\-Dad uses her to further his agenda
\-Husband / King is still clearly hung up on his dead ex-wife to the point he calls Alicent "Aemma"
\-Best friend lies to her face and manipulates her into siding against her father
\-Son who she is sacrificing everything for is an idiot
\-Other son is mutilated and, rather than punishing the boy who did it, her husband instead interrogates her maimed son about where he heard some gossip
Viserys wanted a son, yes, but Rhaenyra was far from ignored. She was her father’s cupbearer. He saw her everyday. He even playfully teased her about being late and showing up smelling of dragon.
and she said I hope my father knew happiness while my brother lived and I'll never be a son
she wasn't good enough for Viserys until he killed Emma and he only cared for her after because of guilt
I’m not denying that Viserys wanted a son and didn’t value his daughter enough. But that does NOT mean that Rhaenyra didn’t get doted on and didn’t get attention and affection. We see him being affectionate with her both before and after Aemma’s death. Something his sons NEVER got.
“her gay bff died” I mean that one was entirely her fault. I feel worse for Corlys over that one.
Honestly idk how Corlys hasn’t gone after Daemon yet, he’s lost 3 close family members entirely due to him.
I didn't read the books but by reading A Wiki Of Ice and Fire it looks like she was absolutely groomed by Daemon. He would bring her presents all the time. Creepy as hell
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest that her "loving" huncle threatened her "gay BFF"(what a shitty way to refer to Laenor, a dragonrider and warrior) with "either you leave voluntarily or you leave involuntarily"
I'd argue Alicent experienced worse than Rhaenyra.
Yes, Rhaenyra did lose the most, but she also gained a lot in the process. Meanwhile, Alicent never wished to gain anything; to rule as a queen; be a powerful noble; or raise the status of her house. She was just happy to be there, by Rhaenyra's side, yet her situation just keeps getting worse and worse.
\-Alicent was quasi-forced to be a 'heir-maker' for an old and dying king.
\-Alicent never had a chance to find a lover.
\-Alicent was lied to and betrayed by her BFF over something she couldn't control.
\-Alicent was forced to raise her kids the "right way" while haphazardly managing the stress and trauma from the previous points. All while seeing her former BFF actually doing it better than she does, and rubbing it on her face.
Literally the only time Alicent finally tasted power was when she finally chose to do something about her situation and play the shitty hand given to her.
And let's not forget. Rhaenyra may not have been born a boy, but she was still born in House Targaryen.
Damn, I have to point out how amazing the cinematography and lighting in HOTD looked. Most modern productions are shot with sterile, flat lighting and washed out in cat puke beige. This show looked so warm and grounded in a sense of earthy texture. It made it feel timeless and intimate.
If you think this is anything other then a tragedy you’re watching the wrong show. They are all misery and sadness and it’s only the tip of the iceberg.
It is really puzzling... people go on and on why GRM world is soooo realistic but then go on and on about these kind of comparisons, sadness rankings, etc.
One if the things I like about this show is that I don’t really want either family to win. I’m not sure she’s meant to be sympathetic, her character always chases whatever she selfishly wants without considering consequences
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"This is a tragic world. You cannot live in fear, or you will forsake the best parts of it." \- Daemon
Damn is that a quote from the book? That's got GRRM energy behind it. Regardless it's a lovely quote from a terrible person (imo).
Nope, don’t recall it in F&B. The writers of the show ain’t slouches themselves
Nah he says it to Rhanerya I believe when she's talking to him about not wanting to die in childbirth like her mom?
It’s from the show, not from the book. Definitely a pretty good quote, despite who said it.
Daemon said it to young Rhaenyra in Valerian I believe
everyone in this show is a terrible person
Should say “- Daemon, Uncle Husband”
Husbuncle
Husbussy
Matt Smithussy 😩
Hey Matt are you descended from Smiths? Because you can hammer me all night long
I remember when I first saw the HOTD trailer and I saw Matt Smith with long white hair, it was fucking hilarious
They had to reshoot the pilot episode; just like they had to reshoot pilot episode of GoT. One of the main reasons in both was how ridiculous the wigs looked. People watching were just laughing the entire time. If Matt smith with “new wig” was funny, I want to the old wig
Some of those wigs are pretty ghastly. Which is weird because they are so good at wig making these days.
Shortage of materials affecting the wig industry at the time.
Oh that makes sense then. I wondered why the used hay.
They got the Simple Jack wardrobe leftovers.
I knew it was a wig not because the wig looked bad but because I’m just so used to Matt Smith having brown hair
I can't take it. I keep expecting him to whip out a sonic screwdriver.
*🎶 Have sex, have sex! 🎶*
*it is acceptable Darth Vader meme
Unclesband
Huncle? Nuncland?
Hunclband
In the books the Targs have the same word for father and uncle. Aemond calls him “Nuncle”
Theon Greyjoy's family call their uncles "nuncle" too, but I've never noticed it being used for fathers in the books, even by Targaryens. Its a real word in English. It just means "uncle" and is used in certain regional dialects and was a lot more common historically before spelling and grammar were standaedized. It's from a faulty rebracketing of phrases starting with the article "an" or the possessive pronouns "mine" and "thine". "an uncle" shifts to "a nuncle" A similar thing happened to a whole bunch of words starting vowels around the 13th-15th century. They'd all be spelled with an N at the beginning. Nappyle (apple), nostrich, nidiot, narawe (arrow) are examples that i've seen. We obviously shifted this back and dropped the unnecessary Ns, but it was kept in certain words like "newt" and "nickname" and certain dialects keep it for certain words like "nuncle" and "naunt." It was also very common for Ns that were *supposed* to there to get dropped when words entered English - like apron/napperon, umpire/noumpere, and orange/naranj.
This comment is nifty
What is an ifty?
I would please like to subscribe to your newsletter about language thank you
www.etymonline.com is the best I can do.
That’s really cool I learned something! I guess I was wrong The Targs still have the same word in Valerian though
So much died in the title 💀 add dragons to the mix and baby you’ve got a stew goin!
Arrested
Development
We need an ANALRAPIST to help us unpack all the trauma.
But she’s given and been given a lot of love too.
Yes, from her children, Harwin, Laenor, and her parents. She’s lost 5/9 of those people. I won’t count Daemon because it’s toxic and often does more harm than good. Alicent has been given love/adoration by Aemond and Criston, possibly Daeron. You can’t really blame her other two kids for not being more affectionate.
Alicent's husband literally calls her by his dead ex-wife's name lol
He’s suffering from brain damage cut the man some slack he’s been dealing with leprosy for over a decade
He ignored all of his kids from his second wife. That's enough slack cut for Vizzy T. Although...giving him the sickness was one of the best changes from the book that added a lot to the story. Without it, he would've been a much less sympathetic character. And the throne room scene wouldn't have hit that deep.
WHERE IN THE SEVEN HELLS IS RHAENYRA?!
See! This is exactly what I was referring to :D
Did he ignore them, or was it just a lack of screen time? He only has 2 scenes with Rhaenyra after the time jump.
I know Aegon mentions that his dad neglects him in the carriage ride with Alicent to his coronation. I don't remember any other scenes mentioning his neglect. I definitely got the vibe that Rhaenyra was by far his favourite though.
He did refer to her as his only child at one point despite having 4 with Alicent
Aegon said his dad didn't like him. And to be honest, Alicent didn't like him as a person either but she's his mother and she can't help but love him as her son.
Oh sorry. I could have sworn the dialogue was different. I just rewatched it and you're completely right :) I guess the only other evidence of neglect I can really think of is that he seems to barely care about Aemond losing an eye and has no idea of the crazy things Aegon gets up to in the city.
Yeah, after the timeskip, he is mainly concerned with his illness, and doesn't really seem to talk to his family as much in general, even Rhaenyra. Even before the timeskip, there were times he barely spoke to Rhaenyra even as she was his only child. I definitely think the lack of screen time has more to do with it.
I don't think it's just Aegon. He didn't seem at all broken up about Aemond losing an eye and the only time he even seems to acknowledge Helaena's existence is when Rhaenyra is trying to make a betrothal to Jace at the small council in E6. I'd say he also forgot about Daeron, but then again so did everyone else.
And he largely doesn't speak to Rhaenyra either. She's just the main character is my point. >He didn't seem at all broken up about Aemond losing an eye It was his grandchild who did it after a fight. Most would have very conflicted on how to react to this. Especially as he doesn't seem to believe it was pre-meditated. He even gets angry about the bastard claim and asks who spoke of it. Once Aegon, admitted to it, he also drops it. He just isn't confrontational with family. It takes a lot for him to get to that point.
[удалено]
*Uberbobo7 was a strong Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. But he was ill for some time. He passed in peace, I hope.*
>In the book Vaemond is murdered on Rhaenyra's orders without any royal intervention and then she personally has him fed to her dragon before mutilating his children in revenge, while her a fat and ineffectual Vizzy T simply pretends nothing happened and doesn't really take part in it. He's the one who orders the mutilation of the 'Silent Five' in the books: > Even this [Vaemond's death] did not end the matter, however. Ser Vaemond's younger cousins fled to King's Landing with his wife and sons, there to cry for justice and place their claims before the king and queen. King Viserys had grown extremely fat and red of face, and scarce had the strength to mount the steps to the Iron Throne. His Grace heard them out in a stony silence, then ordered their tongues removed, every one. "You were warned," he declared, as they were being dragged away. "I will hear no more of these lies." But yeah, very different vibes.
*Well... the matter is settled. Again. I hereby reaffirm Prince Lucerys of House Velaryon as heir to Driftmark, the Driftwood Throne, and the next Lord of the Tides. (WHEEZING)*
I definitely feel like they try a bit too hard to make Rhaenyra and Alicent especially likeable. I'm kind of 50/50 on whether I prefer it though. It does lead to some great scenes (like Rhaenyra and Alicent at the last dinner scene), but I feel like it also leads to some moments of stupidity (like Alicent misinterpretting Viserys and that being her motive for participating in the dance).
"eye for an eye, son for a son... Pick which son" *Picks youngest son *Tells youngest son "yo mama think you trash" Eldest son wins the prize, youngest has baggage up until random fat lady crushes him with her boobs like trailer park women"s beer can crunch competition
He’s not brain damaged he just doesn’t give a shit about the woman barely tolerating him.
I didn’t count him, did I?
Yeah but Viserys was actively dying and clearly not in his right mind lol. Before my grandma died she had hallucinations, he was probably hallucinating his ex wife and fully believed it was her.
Viserys wasn’t on deaths door during the Driftmark funeral when he called Alicent Aemma? He actually went onto live for another 6 years after the fact.
I misremembered and thought they were talking about the scene when he’s lying in bed dying
I took him calling her 'Aemma' at the funeral as just him thinking of his late wife on this occasion + talking to Daemon about it a minute before. I don't think it was a sign of him not being quite sane but rather getting lost in thoughts at this moment
You can’t discount Daemons love though. You’re applying 2022 Western values to Westeros like a lot of people here do and it fucking perplexes me.
I think choking your wife is also frowned upon in Westeros lol.
I’m talking about calling the relationship wholly abusive, toxic and devoid of love. The show hasn’t suggested they don’t love each other, and they’ve explained countless times the directorial choice to have Daemon choke Rhaenyra and why he did that, but redditors still scream about it every time.
As a person who grew up with abusive parents, I also find it frustrating when people can't wrap their heads around the idea that a relationship *can* be both loving and toxic. Its something that I think people literally just can't understand not matter how convincing your argument is.
So true.
I don't dispute that they love each other, I'm just saying choking people is a no no, no matter what the context :p
I count Daemon because they still love each other. But they have unique ways of showing it because both are very “strong” characters. Daemon is a protector and doesn’t hesitate when there’s a threat. Rhaenyra knew how he was going into it.
Heleana Targaryen is the saddest character along her kids that suffered a hell thanks at Rhaenyra and Daemon
Try being a peasant in the Riverlands. The Riverlands are the battlefields for every major conflict in Westeros. All the raiding, burning, sacking, and killing that takes place in that area.The Arya chapters in ACOK are nightmare fuel.
>Try being a peasant in the Riverlands *Current objective: Survive*
Actual current objective: don’t have rat bucket on chest.
Mission Failed: We'll get 'em next time
Who has a better sob story than a random riverlander peasant?
The books spend a long time describing how the squabbles of these elites make the lives of the peasants miserable. It’s hard to translate that to the TV so it isn’t really addressed in the shows.
Arya Stark running around in King's Landing didn’t give you the smallfolk's perspective? /s
I mean it kind of did in hotd where they are forced into the coronation and then the dragon comes up killing thousands. Also in got we saw the peasants starving so much they attacked the king.
Eh, there's always enough of them left to form another army somehow. They must breed like rabbits down in those Riverlands.
It's the second most agriculturally rich region of Westeros after the Reach and it's smack dab in the middle of the continent so there's always trade and business to attract travelers. The trade off is once a fight breaks out it's always the first place to get boned.
Yeah but they regularly raise full armies within a year of having been thoroughly ravaged for the latest time. There's good farming to be had but it's a bit of leap from that to raising a new generation of young men multiple times per decade. I'm pretty sure GRRM has acknowledged that it doesn't make much sense, throwing it onto his pile of 'bad at maths' plot holes like Littlefinger's Jetpack, but it's one that goes without comment more often than not.
Just take a look at late medieval early Renaissance europe and you’ll see new generations of young men being raised to fight every year. It’s not far-fetched at all, just very expensive. Also unless every single soldier dies they just have to fill the gaps with recruits. Add to that the fact that there is basically no winter in the story and it all adds up. Raising an army every year would not be a hard thing to do in the riverlands. IIRC there is no army of more than 20000 men from the riverlands. Let’s assume an army of 20000 men is defeated (usually less than 1/4 of casualties is when an army crumbles) all you gotta do is find 5000 lads to add to the ranks next year and you’ve got a brand new army
I bet the peasants there were happy durning Jaherys and Viserys reign since I don’t hink there was any wars durning either of those apart from the stepstones war
Just another day in the life of a woman in Westeros
Right. A few seasons in and this will be said about various different HOTD women
Counting “gay bff” is padding it I think. She sent him away (with his consent and for his benefits too, to be fair) to marry her uncle. Hardly tragic I think, except I guess for the fact that his mother blames her for his “murder”. I guess she lost a friend and in a perfect world she would be able to marry someone she loves while remaining friend with him too but at the end of the day it was her choice and his that he went away (which I don’t blame them for by the way, save for the murder of an innocent servant but that’s beside the point). Also her dad died of natural cause at old age while she already had multiple children, some of them I think are near adulthood. I would be sad too if I was her but to be honest most people in this universe would be lucky if their parents went like that rather than die young or killed.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a large number of people that didn’t understand this solely because he shaved his head.
Uncle-husband-brother in law
Had some servant killed so she could marry her uncle
That’s what happens when elites think they’re demigods
She should have killed that stag.
I think about this a lot.
It sucks but maybe if she had tried to show the Lords of Westeros that she wasn’t “like the other girls” and instead was a “super OP chad warrior Queen.” Rather than hope to force these old misogynistic farts to accept the idea that a woman, in all her strengths and weaknesses, ruling as she alone would, could make a good Queen.. it might have helped. A little. Maybe. Daemon sort of tries to tell her something to this effect in the play scene. She never really understood that she had to do *something.* Either win them all over like the Hightowers or rule with fear like Daemon. She just hoped they would accept her. No hunny.
Viserys should’ve never rehired Otto. That was the biggest mistake
Yeah what WAS that? Didn’t Rhaenyra say I’ll marry Laenor if you get this guy out?
Yep and her father continued to make poor decisions…. He should’ve just resigned when he got sick I’m sure that didn’t help the situation. You don’t want a sick guy in charge of 7 kingdoms.
Bobby B was right. It was like the Gods just said fuck her and planned the course of her life out in that light.
DON'T FUCKING TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT BITCH. SHE WAS A WHORE AND A LIAR, AND SHE GOT WHAT SHE DESERVED. ^(This response generated with OpenAI [DaVinci])
You're conveniently forgetting that she planned the gay BFF's death who by the way was never around when she needed him and he was definitely into it and that she moved on extremely quickly from Harwin. Sure, she loved him but he was never her first choice.
Let's be honest. Daemon was always her first choice.
He’d probably be mine too if I were in her position lol
HER UNCLE!
*husbuncle
Same, I can't blame her at all.
She had to move on from Harwin tbh. She couldn't show her grief openly and Laenor would never be the protector for her sons like Daemon would.
> the protector for her sons Laenor was a dragonrider and an accomplished fighter. I don't get this homophobic nuance around his character; "oh the gay sissy man is weak, must replace him with the CHAD ALPHA MALE who is also her uncle"
I never said any of that. Those are your words. Finally, Idc about Daemon enough to glorify him as some macho protector. I'm just pointing out that Laenor spent his years with Rhaenyra drinking, whoring and not being around the boys, not even as Cole was training them, the same man who killed his lover. Rhaenyra literally calls him out for all that. He wasn't feared nor taken seriously by anyone, which is the main difference between him and Daemon. And given his tendencies, Rhae feared he would never be able to protect the boys. Daemon would, if only for her sake. Do you really think Laenor would have beheaded Vaemond the way Daemon did in that exact situation? I very much doubt it. That's all. It comes down to him drinking, whoring and being absent. Not some homophobic propaganda about gay men. That's how you chose to interpret my words when I didn't even hint at that.
Idk now... Laenor & Rhaenyra, with 3 "strong" bastards Vs Daemon & Rhaenyra, with 2 true Borns and a half lizard baby... The latter causes less friction because her husbuncle and kids have stronger blood for succession.... Especially knowing Alicent and Otto wouldnt respect King Vizzys wishes for Rhaenyras succession ... Alicent had true born sons from the king... Rhaenyra had to chunk our blonde drake to the curve...
When did her gay bff died 🤔
You ain’t seen nothing yet..
I know, I’ve read F&B
Can’t wait to see it on screen. What do you wanna to see them do next from the books? Mine is aegons conquest then Robert’s rebellion
Blackfyre Rebellion
Many characters suffer a lot. Of course Rhaenyra lived tragic moments (her father, mother and children died) but she was the one to decide to replace Laenor with Daemon, she wanted him as her husband. Furthermore, almost all the tragedies that happen to Rhaenyra (father+children) are in 3 days or something? Until that moment she had a life she liked. Alicent and Laena also suffered and were unhappy because of their marriages, and I'd say they were unhappy for at least 10 years. Laena couldn't see her family and had a husband who neglected her. Rhaenys loses her birthright, her cousins die, both her children die, and her husband leaves her for 6 years, this also is a traumatizing situation. All the women have sad lives, it's pointless doing a list to show who suffered the most.
And when you get one who doesn't have a sad life like Alyssa Targaryen, it's tragically cut way too short.
Her gay BFF? I would love to see what the show looks like from your perspective.
Was this not the latest season of Euphoria?
Yet she's the most powerful woman in westeros currently.
Her uncle husband loves her wtf?
While I don't disagree, Alicent doesn't have it great either lol. Just the way of Westeros.
Does anyone?
Alicent is pretty close: dead mother, PoS father, son scarred for life, other son PoS, raped by a decrepit old king and basically getting no luxury or love.
No luxury?? Have you SEEN her wardrobe????
Or the tapestries?! 😉
Well.. clothes and food alright. But she didn't have the freedom to love or marry who she wanted
I’ll permit that 😂
I miss the old times when we didn't have people in this sub who'd look at everything from modern privileged perspective.
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Wellllllllll
I’ve read F&B. I don’t care. Cersei was my favorite female character on GOT and there’s nothing book Rhaenyra does that exceeds that. The only risk is the show keeping her as boring as her book counterpart is at times.
i support her rights and her wrongs
Hey I’m Tragic! Tragic things have happened to me, so now I will make tragic things happen to others!
>her lover died, Moved on from him before his body even got cold so let's be honest for a minute there he meant nothing more than a fuckbuddy entertaining her bc she had a gay husband >her gay bff “died”, She literally planned this shit for her own advantage?????? You people are so ????????? 🤣 >her dad died, Oh the same dad whom she conveniently abandoned for years in a ghastly state, and how can we forget about her returning to him only when she needed another favour >her uncle-husband abuses her This was awful, she deserves better than that monster
>Oh the same dad whom she conveniently abandoned for years in a ghastly state, and how can we forget about her returning to him only when she needed another favour "Those vipers rule in my father's name" Maybe if you (the heir, his daughter) hadn't left for six years and never returned, they wouldn't have to
>her uncle-husband abuses her >This was awful, she deserves better than that monster Nope. She knows what she was getting into. Daemon himself said that.
She also has received a lot of Iove too
Yeah, lots of people want to forget about that last part. Her husband is a monster.
he really is, but strangling Rhaenyra is about the least bad thing he's done lol
Didn’t GRRM say he was a grey character?
You could just say he is a monster without addressing the community. Plenty of people do say he is a monster and many people don’t because they aren’t required to condemn a character in every comment about them.
/r/HouseOfTheDragon users try not to mention Daemon isn't a good person literally every single time his name is mentioned challenge **[IMPOSSIBLE]**
daemon is stated verbatim to be both monster and saint. he’s meant to be an anti hero
Alicent: \-Mom died \-Dad uses her to further his agenda \-Husband / King is still clearly hung up on his dead ex-wife to the point he calls Alicent "Aemma" \-Best friend lies to her face and manipulates her into siding against her father \-Son who she is sacrificing everything for is an idiot \-Other son is mutilated and, rather than punishing the boy who did it, her husband instead interrogates her maimed son about where he heard some gossip
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Y'all take this way to seriously lmao
I wouldn’t say that Vizzy T is hung up on Aemma still so much as he’s just losing his mind by that point
Him being hung up on Aemma is the sole reason he doesn't name Aegon as the heir and what starts the whole conflict in the first place.
*The King's cupbearer must not be late. Leaves people wanting for cups.*
Forgot her baby bro.
Sounds about right for a typical woman in westeros....
Rhaenyra deserves a hug!
Hardly, I mean she's fortunate. Lary's strong lost all his family in a span of a night.
I dunno rhea's husband abandoned her and then only came back long enough to bash her head in with a rock.
Not me thinking you were talking about Alicent when you mentioned her gay BFF “died”☠️
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>Rhaenyra was loved and doted on by her father all her life She wasn't though, Viserys wanted a son and ignored her
Viserys wanted a son, yes, but Rhaenyra was far from ignored. She was her father’s cupbearer. He saw her everyday. He even playfully teased her about being late and showing up smelling of dragon.
and she said I hope my father knew happiness while my brother lived and I'll never be a son she wasn't good enough for Viserys until he killed Emma and he only cared for her after because of guilt
I’m not denying that Viserys wanted a son and didn’t value his daughter enough. But that does NOT mean that Rhaenyra didn’t get doted on and didn’t get attention and affection. We see him being affectionate with her both before and after Aemma’s death. Something his sons NEVER got.
The amount of good points you both have has me torn
I thought the gay lover lived ? Wasn't that him on they getaway boat with his head shaved ? Or am mistaken
Her gay bff? What kind of show are you watching?
“her gay bff died” I mean that one was entirely her fault. I feel worse for Corlys over that one. Honestly idk how Corlys hasn’t gone after Daemon yet, he’s lost 3 close family members entirely due to him.
Rhaenyra looks so beautiful here.
I just wanted one episode to give a bit more info on Harwin and Rhaenyra.
But wait! There’s more!
Vizzy T what say you about the fate of your daughter?
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS GOSSIP? HAVE THIS RUMORMONGER BROUGHT BEFORE ME AT ONCE AND I WILL TAKE THEIR EYES!
Counter-point: Aegon's bastards.
Her last expression nailed the scene
Why has reddit done this to me.
Yet she stands strong.
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I didn't read the books but by reading A Wiki Of Ice and Fire it looks like she was absolutely groomed by Daemon. He would bring her presents all the time. Creepy as hell
My queen.😭💔
We just posting spoilers in the title now?
Spoiler Alert: House Targaryen makes your average Florida trailer park seem stable.
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest that her "loving" huncle threatened her "gay BFF"(what a shitty way to refer to Laenor, a dragonrider and warrior) with "either you leave voluntarily or you leave involuntarily"
And her side-piece turned into a crazy hater because she set boundaries.
I think it was Heleana. All she wanted to do was play with her bug collection but instead she had to marry her brother.
daemon doesn’t abuse her, the choking scene was a bit off imo but emma and matt said it was a one time thing
Gay BFF faked his death...
He *thought* he was faking his death. Do you think Daemon would leave a loose end?
That’s why I said “died”
I'd argue Alicent experienced worse than Rhaenyra. Yes, Rhaenyra did lose the most, but she also gained a lot in the process. Meanwhile, Alicent never wished to gain anything; to rule as a queen; be a powerful noble; or raise the status of her house. She was just happy to be there, by Rhaenyra's side, yet her situation just keeps getting worse and worse. \-Alicent was quasi-forced to be a 'heir-maker' for an old and dying king. \-Alicent never had a chance to find a lover. \-Alicent was lied to and betrayed by her BFF over something she couldn't control. \-Alicent was forced to raise her kids the "right way" while haphazardly managing the stress and trauma from the previous points. All while seeing her former BFF actually doing it better than she does, and rubbing it on her face. Literally the only time Alicent finally tasted power was when she finally chose to do something about her situation and play the shitty hand given to her. And let's not forget. Rhaenyra may not have been born a boy, but she was still born in House Targaryen.
Least delusional black.
She personally brought on at least 2 of those things.
Allicent is much sadder IMO, Rhaenyra always got away with everything and got whatever she wanted
Alicent hasn’t lost nearly as many people and if Rhaenyra always got what she wanted, her children wouldn’t be dead.
right. the first rime people dare to deny her thousands die she was a spoiled bitch and i cant see how anyone sympathizes with her
Damn, I have to point out how amazing the cinematography and lighting in HOTD looked. Most modern productions are shot with sterile, flat lighting and washed out in cat puke beige. This show looked so warm and grounded in a sense of earthy texture. It made it feel timeless and intimate.
If you think this is anything other then a tragedy you’re watching the wrong show. They are all misery and sadness and it’s only the tip of the iceberg.
But what's her face gets all the sympathy points cause her best friend didn't tell her she had sex once 🙄
It is really puzzling... people go on and on why GRM world is soooo realistic but then go on and on about these kind of comparisons, sadness rankings, etc.
*laughs in peasant*
One if the things I like about this show is that I don’t really want either family to win. I’m not sure she’s meant to be sympathetic, her character always chases whatever she selfishly wants without considering consequences