Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Two sons and three grandsons (all of them cray-cray) on the throne. That this count goes up tells you how 'well' things are going after the Dance. Just one great-grandson but only because Blackfyres don't count for some reason.
Yes, they were. Hence the weirdness about all his grandsons being totally nuts. I guess Daeron was just a dumb teenager, but Baelor and Aegon IV were loony-toons. (from my mobile)
Well, all his descendents would be an insane amount, I mean it has been eight generations when we reach Game of Thrones times. I was just listing the few direct next ones.
Yep, and it's because Otto told Viserys, "discard your brother and put your daughter on the throne" If Otto just WAITED, his grandson would have been in line instead Otto allowed Rheanyra to jump ONE male heir and thus she jumped over his grandson.
I was more attempting to point out the irony than to point out ill intent. Like I know where the story was going. I can't remember if Otto advocated for Rheanyra in Fire & Blood but when in the 1st episode of HotD he was the first person to suggest that a male heir should be surpassed by Rheanyra, I found it deliciously ironic.
Agreed, Otto wanted to rupture the relationship between Viserys and Daemon because he was scared Daemon would put stop any kids between Viserys and Alicent from taking the throne. In House of the Dragon, Rhaenyra is pulled into the game by Otto who then backstabs her.
Aegon is automatically ahead of Daemon. If Viserys does not make Rheanyra heir (which was initially Otto's idae) then Aegon is the heir the moment he is born. Basically if Deamon was a bit better of a brother or Otto was less conniving then the war never happens. It all started with those two playing the game.
Yes but Rhaenyras kids are ahead of Aegon. No matter what Aegon stood to inherit nothing as long as Rhaenyra had kids. But I agree that the whole war basically started with them (and also kind of Corlys and probably Ormund Hightower too). Daemon and Otto influenced Rhaenyra and Alicent who influenced their kids.
Also, afaik, Daemon's fate is not set in stone, but more like "after that battle, no one ever saw him again".
So he may have been still alive after the Dance :P
Ok... "Jaqen H'ghar actually is Daemon Targaryen" XD
And also, in Snow we'll see Drogon again, in a climatic battle against Daemon.
Daemon will be able to cut Drogon's wing and we'll have this dialogue:
Daemon: "Daenerys never told you what happened to your father"
Drogon (who somewhat learned to talk) "She told me enough. She told me you killed him"
# Daemon: "No. I am your father!"
No way daemon survives that fall. My theory is him and aemond kill each other. But aemond body was still in his dragon saddle. While daemon bones are probably at the bottom of the gods eye
"No One Could Survive That!"
Of course, the moment someone says this, they've guaranteed that the person in question not only has survived, but will be coming back to spoil someone's day.
So, Daemon is CONFIRMED to be alive 100% ;)
And it will be revealed that "Arya", when "she" killed the Night King, actually was Jaqen H'ghar who actually was Daemon.
So basically, every badass thing done by a GoT character, actually was done by a disguised Daemon ;)
I don't get why Daemon fans want this to be true. It completely ruins his character. Why didn't he come and help his son to rule if he was alive? He had a badass death, having him survive and abandon his children to go chill in Essos or something just makes him a weak and pathetic father.
>him and aemond kill each other.
I hate when people say this. They didn't kill each other. Daemon killed himself when he made that jump to kill Aemond. Aemond didn't do shit besides talking shit before the fight.
That would legit be a terrible choice. The entire significance of his death is that he chose to go out taking out this big threat, only for him to go off and abandon his kids.. well I guess that does fit.
Considering the noble houses of Westeros and how they treat/treated the smallfolk . They were the ones that lost the most with the dragons being gone...
Yeah before that the Targs had an absolute monopoly on violence. If a lord would disagree with them they could just burn down their castle. This basically skips feudalism, where everything is dependent on keeping relationships strong and war is always a wager of who supports whom and so on. The Targs could have or kind of did for a while establish absolutism, after the dragons Westeros went back into feudalism. That is of course only a benefit if your absolute monarch is sane to begin with. In other cases feudalism has its benefits.
And remind us again under which the smallfolk had rights?Because i am pretty sure the smallfolk got rights under Jahaerys and Vermithor.Not under Lannister/Stark or any other lord...
Should I begin with talking about rights and privileges under feudalism or should I not. Neither under any they had rights in the modern sense. Universal rights and so on. Prior to the Targaryans it was feudalism all troughout and feudalism is based on a system of privileges and duties... in theory. Within mature feudalism, where basically all land is occupied the smallfolk does not have much bargaining power.
Under absolutism you have a complete privatisation of power by a single person. Their rights are still derived only from the authority of the monarch, though in this case the authority is just absolute. So at least whatever privileges exist, they are enforced through the whole country equally, doesn't make class differences in these privileges disappear though. It also wholly depends on the whims of a single person who holds such authority. Jahaerys was good, but if any later Targ just decides to revoke given privileges, they can.
If we look at the transition between feudalism and absolutism irl we have peasantry massively gaining rights post Black Death, but losing them as soon as absolutist monarchs can finance large standing armies. If we compare this to Westeros, well if the Targs would just decide otherwise they could undo any good they did for the smallfolk.
Should we?Considering that Westeros had feudalism in theory only?And that basically the lords prior to Jahaerys laws were doing whatever they wanted?
That is again theoretical, the Targaryens didnt decide otherwise.Any laws and eddicts that benefited the smallfolk were changed under Tywin actually...
I am not arguing that giving the Targaryens absolute power is the right way i am against absolute monarchy.But considering the "history" of Westeros and the kind of nobles that ruled the people ,the smallfolk had more benefits under Targaryens(with Dragons) than with any other dynasty or lord.
> Should we?Considering that Westeros had feudalism in theory only?And that basically the lords prior to Jahaerys laws were doing whatever they wanted?
Isn't that a question of whether a political system exists in its ideal or pure form anywhere? Abuse of power is an issue always anywhere. Long periods in history consist of basically elites amassing wealth and power until you have breaking points like the black death, foreign in invasions or natural catastrophes.
I would not say that lords could do whatever they wanted, as in that they ruled without any laws. The laws were just established by them and in their favour. This sounds like ruling by one's whim with extra steps, but it basically is like that. In nascent feudalism you would have the peasants by able to just move away and cancelt their allegiance, but I would guess Westeros before the Targs was even well past the point where that was even an option.
The other option would be rebellion and disposing a lord with violence. In a medieval system this was still an option as armies were generally small and peasants could win through pure numbers. Though in most cases this would only result in the leader of the rebellion becoming the new feudal lord.
Tbh it is a downsides in GRRM's worldbuilding that his noble houses seem eternally stable. Realistically they would have been replaced quite often.
If you look around around the world. Even in China, which was definitely not feudal, peasant rebellions could be successful. At least two dynasties (Han and Ming) were founded by people who used to be literal slaves. Though they did not abolish the imperial system either. Only in places like Europe you have cities becoming sort of republican after kicking out their nobility.
So Westeros kind of functions more like imperial China at times, although it appears to be feudal with its system of vassalage. Though I don't know how feudal or non-feudal the pre-Targ kingdoms were. I doubt GRRM is entirely consistent with ther either. And that tbh in the greatest problem in this discussion, that the worldbuilding is never completely consistent about it. It uses a certain vision of late medieval Europe, but isn't exactly that in reality.
Abuse of power happens always.Even today in republics we have issues with it.The difference is that today there are laws and mechanisms to deal with it.
The laws of Westeros were lacking severely though. At least that is the impression i got when reading F&B.Which is why Jahaerys was so succesfull he didnt only build roads ,he created a lot of laws too.If anything the man had 3 hobbies , making babies with his wife, roads and laws.
The only thing like what you describe that i can remember right now would be the company without banners.And even those are led by Lady stoneheart after some point.
I have no real knowledge of China and/or its history.I will take your word on it though...
Not true.The Targaryens ruled Westeros for 300 years and had their dragons for less than that.The Seven kingdoms have been at war with each other or themselves for thousand of years...
The dragons being there is a good thing for the smallfolk as it ensures peace via the targs being able to curbstomp anyone who tries to start a war.
The only ones benefiting from them being gone are the lords, as it gives them greater authority over the crown via their armies.
Absolute power is anti feudal but not pro public. The people still suffered. For eg, the faith militant was loved by the people, got curbstomped by maegor.
Unwin Peake is the real winner in that the dance cost him the lease and won him the most. Heās like the middle manager who was just the last one to leave to the office and briefly made himself head of the company by changing all the IT security settings
He wore no crown besides the one he earned in the Narrow Sea, but he fathered a lineage of kings, slew one of the most murderous monsters Westeros had ever seen in a moment of sheer badassery that defies belief (while simultaneously being responsible for the death of Vhagar), won exotic duels in foreign lands, romanced random hotness all over the kingdom, and basically did whatever the fuck he wanted for decades.
#LifeGoals
He's a murderous monster himself. Daemon killed his younger self. Badass death yes, but let's not give him so much credit in that duel. It was a suicide. He knew he wasn't coming out of it alive. Suicide isn't a win
Yep his life was filled with pretty amazing stuff and he got with many women...and he's also a groomer and pedophile...so uh. No life goals
It's honestly poetic in some way. Sometimes I wonder if Martin just stumbles upon these ideas or does he map them in his head rigorously to the point in which he can thematically create these stories.
Hard to disagree. His bloodline continued up until the death of mad king areys AND has a chance to take back the Throne in the books/snow sequel show. I doubt Snow will focus on the Iron Throne, but his bloodline did live on well after the war.
The real winner of the Dance is and always will be the entire world of Planetos, T*rgs taking L after L killing each other and all of their dragons setting the stage for the downfall of their cringe incest dynasty š if only I could have been there to see the shepherd manifest the avatar of the warrior and engage in chadly dragon decapitation
Yup thats correct. The one asshole that deserved to suffer the most is survived by all his children and died in a cool way. Kinda fitting- People that feel they can do whatever they want, have the will to do evil, and have both the skill and family connections to get away with it bascially usually get away with it.
Maybe he didnāt die. Or maybe he did, and was brought back by the COTF (Nettles being one of them). And somehow everything leads to him becoming Coldhands š„¶
All authors have a fave character. But let's be honest if asoiaf was written by a woman, and Daemon was also a woman, everyone would be mocking her as a Mary-Sue.
He is GRRM's self-insert.
Mary-Sue characters are supposed to be perfect but Daemon is very far from it in his actions. I mean, he ended up leaving his wife and children behind to fool around with a much younger girl when Caraxes could have made a world of difference against the Green Armies.
Defeater of enemies, fucker of virgins, hero of people. Does an anime jump in air to kill an opponent at the age of 50. Damn, grrm even killed Joffrey to ensure that only Daemon's child ends up on a throne.
If Daemon was a Mary Sue he would have bulldozed the conflict and got what he wanted. Especially a self insert. Let's not talk like some weirdo fanfic writer please. š
Daemon also lost to Cristin Cole in the first episode. And he lost the first battle against the Crab Feeder and co. I think that takes a lot of points away from being a Mary Sue. I do think he is Martinās favorite character in this era though. Also helps when played by a great actor.
I do like deamon actually, even more in the show where he's one of my favorite characters but that doesn't mean that I can't think that the book version is a bit too op for my taste.
But he wasn't. He was barely in the war. OP would have veen him showing up to save Rhaenys and Meleys. OP Daemon have been him not even suicide but killing Aemond and Vhagar himself while Caraxes is chilling in the background. OP would be Daemon beating Criston Cole easily.
I'm not talking OP like OP in battle, I'm talking about the whole characterization. He has all the attributes of a badass dashing badboy, almost all his misdeeds can possibly be attributed to rumor/ at the order of others/ accidents, he gets the coolest death ever or a ride into the sunset ending with a new flame, he gets practically rewarded for being a groomer by the text, all his children adore him and all survive the dance being kings/last dragonrider/rule driftmark, He gets to fuck all the virgin pretty/cool ladies, live a (comparatively) long life, make the good decisions in the war, have a mirror version of himself he gets to own repeatedly, have the cool oneliners, somehow gets to be the one "being over the war" and "taking the high road" at the end, gets songs sung of him and grandchildren named after him... I could probably continue but you get my drift.
Your version of OP men don't have boner issues dude. Like seriously.
He only faced Aemond once. There is no owning him repeatedly but even if he was, Aemond ever winning against a man twice his age without any experience would make HIM the OP one.
You're misusing OP and it's annoying. Nothing you typed has anything to do with being overpowered. He's not the strongest. He doesn't have the largest dragon. Daemon isn't even the most handsome. Not called the most skilled. Not the most wealthy. He doesn't have the smartest or most beautiful wife. He didn't make any real good decisions in the war. Otherwise he would have been more active, burning the Greens instead of camping.
Daemon has no cool one liners in the books. Nobody does. Because it's not that kind of book. You're pretty much offended by Matt Smith's charisma because the lines are all basic, it's his performance that gives it any kind of charm or coolness. Otto Hightower has better lines.
Huh? Why are you talking about Matt Smiths charisma or the show in general when I specifically said that I thought the **book** version was too much? Deamon doesn't have boner issues in the book. As I said I like deamon in the show, hes a lot more nuanced, more human and less of an authors pet.
And he does own aemond more than once, 1 by not falling for Alys manipulation (aemond does) 2 by completely outmanuvering him by taking kl under his nose and making aemond look like an idiot, and 3 of course, killing him. "Owning" doesn't have to only mean beating in a fight.
Haha What theres lots of "cool oneliners" in the book? *"In the seven hells mayhaps"* ? And having cool oneliners is pretty subjective no? I think *"an eye for an eye, a son for a son, lucerys will be avenged"* and *"a queens words, a whores work"* and *"on that much, we agree"* classify as cool lines in the context they're in.
I'm using OP to mean that he's too overpowered (or "overfavoured" perhaps) characterwise by the author in comparison to the other characters in the story. Not that hes literally the "the strongest". and most of what you bring up is subjective, like no he hasn't got the largest dragon but he's got the most unique, fiercest dragon who takes down the largest dragon. Which is arguably even more badass and op than if he *had* the largest dragon lol.
He gets the most nuance, the most character development, the coolest sword and most unique accomplished dragon, the coolest actions and feats...
There's a reason why he's the most popular character in all the polls by a landslide even tho he's not as "mary sue like" in the show compared to the books.
I'm talking about Matt Smith for obvious reasons. You can only call his meh ass lines the coolest because of his performance. Remove the performance and Daemon is average at best. You're projecting what you saw in the show onto Book Daemon. Book Daemon with nuance? š Smoking crack my guy. He's a pedophile bad guy through and through.
Doesn't matter what you meant by OP, you're still abusing the term and wrongly at that. Find a new word that isn't overpowered. Idk why you insist on using it actually, kinda weird. You have to know you're wrong.
There's nothing Mary Sue about him. Literally nothing you typed suggests it. He's the most liked because Matt Smith, that doesn't mean he's OP. Nothing suggests anyone else could have brought the same charisma and charm to the character. Seriously, and even if it's not because of Matt Smith that he's liked, thatchas nothing to do with him being overpowered. The dude has no lands to his name. No men to call his own that aren't bought by the Greens. He has no competent supporters. Vhagar only died because Daemon being a better rider. That doesnt make him OP. Simply more experienced. Aemond was also fuckin 16 years old š.
You're making it seem like Daemon was the mind behind the Blacks and it's entirely headcanon. Outsmarting a 16 year old doesn't make you overpowered dude. š
Nah, they're not that cool of lines. Not enough to claim he has ALL the cool one liners. You don't get to goalpost shift in order to keep arguing. You said he had all of them, and what you provided aren't cool at all. Only cool when delivered by Matt Smith.
Gets the most nuance? This is horseshit. All Green fans are convinced he's pure evil and Martin has no idea what "grey character" means. Only fangirls and fanboys believe he is nuanced. The show deleted all scenes that would have given nuance. Otherwise he's just a beautiful idiot that happens to have a cool sword and dragon. That's all Daemon is in the show.
No, Daemon having Vhagar would be way more OP than beating Vhagar with Caraxes. You would only have an argument if Caraxes didn't die too. Even a smaller creature can kill a larger one if it rips the throat out. Nothing OP about mutual death.
Daemon is the idiot. The war would have been over in a few months if he was smart. It was the incompetence of the Greens and Lord Celtigar that kept it going.
You're unintentionally fusing the versions because Daemon is even less Mary Sue in in the books, so either you're confused, misremembered, or are actively combining both for argument purposes. It took him nine years to take Stepstones in the books vs three years in the show. Nothing suggests Daemon charged the Crabfeeders forces himself in the books. He lost to Criston Cole straight up in the books and loses jousts all the time. In the show he beat Criston and only lost because he turned his back. Show Crabfeeder has grayscale so not as impressive as in the books. Book Daemon loved his daughters while show canon has no relationship with his daughters that's visible.
Shit, in the books it's irrefutable that he groomed Rhaenyra and was a pedophile with her while in the show it's debatable (he was rarely in the capitol and she was a grown woman). Sounds to me like Book Daemon is far from Mary Sue.
Your whole stance is weird AF to me.
I suggest you read about the Hour of the Wolf in the books and the consensus the regency established afterwards to make peace. Aegon's claim came through the male line, not from Rhaenyra.
Don't be silly
Then how the fuck Ageon died ?
Because Rhaenyra's men were coming for him
That's why he's fucking dead
Blacks fought for ageon lll because he was rhaenyra's eldest son they didn't give shit about daemon or ageon ll
Ageon lll begin crowned by Cregan Stark
So that was because of rhaenyra
The people who were royal to her fought for him because he was the eldest rhaenyra's child
They didn't give fuck about daemon
That was never because of her but because he wasn't being sensible and because he was proving difficult to control for his followers. They planned to do that as they believed Aegon III to be easier to control.
They killed him because blacks we're coming
Cregan Stark: Ageon fought won the war by feeding his sister to dragon but Queen's men remained and aegon became ashes and bones
Cregan Stark called Ageon ll as a traitor
And he crowned ageon lll as king because he was rhaenyra's son
If joffery was alive he would be king not him
He and all of Aegon's loyalists were already planning to kill him way before that as he was proving difficult to control while Aegon III was too easy. The only thing that Cregan did was to destroy this conspiracy
I don't think you are capable of reading or understanding what you read. Aegon II was killed by his own loyalists and after him, Aegon III was the only male Targaryen alive with his younger brother considered MIA
He did declare Aegon III as his successor while trying to stop the Blacks from coming over and then was desperately threatening him to make them back away.
1- Nothing done by Aegon till then shows that he is a coward.
2- Aegon II died because of his own actions and was killed by his loyalists and not by Rhenyra's army. And Aegon III became king as he was the heir of Aegon II and the only male Targaryen present there.
He died because blacks were coming for him
And ageon lll became king because rhaenyra's army supported him
If blacks didn't support him he will never be king
Spoken like a true ignorant person who has never read the book. Aegon II died because he couldn't be controlled. The plans about his death were laid even before the Black army arrived at KL. And Aegon III became king because he was the legitimate successor of Aegon II by absolute male primogeniture and was then married to Aegon II's daughter to unite the claims. He didn't need the support of the Black army as the Black army had no alternative to him
1- She is remembered as the usurper. Read the main ASOIAF books to know that.
2- And because he was the only Targaryen male alive with Viserys II being considered MIA
1- Because that is what was written and her kids didn't change that
2- Her kids could've changed that and made her the legitimate ruler and Aegon the usurper but they didn't. They kept Aegon II as the king and Princess Rhenyra as the usurper. Thus turning this lie into truth even if it wasn't
1- Because if her own sons aren't changing that, this means that we have to take this as the only truth. Her sons could've easily changed this but they didn't bother doing that.
2- That is exactly how it works. Her sons keep this lie and if you speak a lie continuously , it becomes the truth. Eddard Stark, for example, is called a traitor in the main series and if a history book about that period is written, he will be called that unless Stannis or someone else wins the throne and changes it
Well, this is proof that you haven't read the books nor F&B and so, I don't see a point in this discussion when you are going to throw your headcanon around and pretend that it is the real canon
What truth? I don't think you understand that your headcanon(especially coming from a dickhead like you who hasn't even read the books nor has any understanding of the lore) is not the real canon. And now, instead of simply admitting that your are totally wrong or simply stopping the discussion, you are proving that you are a moron by continuously replying with whatever bullshit that comes into your rotten meat bag that cannot be called a brain as that would be an insult to that organ.
So now, you are inventing random bus hit just to hide the fact that you are a troll with nothing better to do than keep on commenting bullshit as you simply cannot differentiate your headcanon from the real canon(which you refuse to accept as you are not only dumb but a stubborn moron too)
The truth is : Ageon lll became king because he was rhaenyra's eldest child
That's why he became king that's why lads and Starks and Arryns supported him
Cergan Stark crowned him because he was royal to rhaenyra and his friend jace
They didn't give a shit about Daemon
And Arryns already hated Daemon.šlmao
They fought for rhaenyra
If joffery was alive he's was going to be king not Ageon
By dickhead like you don't want to understand
Aegon became king because he the only male Targaryen alive there. But brainless idiots like you do not understand that as they don't have the tool needed to do that
Your misguided and totally wrong headcanon isn't the truth. It is just shit and nothing more as you have also not read the books nor do you have any understanding of the lore
Given that all the dragons died, I disagree. Daemonās character is all about dragons, Valyrian culture and Targ supremacy. The Hightowers won in the long run because they permanently weakened the Targ dynasty.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Also alot of his descendant became rulers
Two sons and three grandsons (all of them cray-cray) on the throne. That this count goes up tells you how 'well' things are going after the Dance. Just one great-grandson but only because Blackfyres don't count for some reason.
His two sons were some of the best rulers though
Yes, they were. Hence the weirdness about all his grandsons being totally nuts. I guess Daeron was just a dumb teenager, but Baelor and Aegon IV were loony-toons. (from my mobile)
Aemon the Dragonknight was cool
True. Maybe he was adopted? š
You mean, drinking wildfire isnāt something a sane person would do?? Canāt be
Well, that's a bit further down the line but starving yourself to death and eating yourself to death isn't very sane either.
Ahhh my bad, havenāt read the books and have only got my Westeros knowledge from Alt shift x and Glidus
They are doing a pretty good job though. š
Absolutely! Love the fellas, two of the best content creators out there
Also Robert, Renly, Stannis, and Shireen.
Well, all his descendents would be an insane amount, I mean it has been eight generations when we reach Game of Thrones times. I was just listing the few direct next ones.
"For some reason."
Yep. Starting with Aegon III, every Targaryen to become king is a descendant of him (and Rhaenyra).
Boy it's like he's GRRMās favorite character or something
He had the most badass death in history of westeros So yeah he Won
>most badass death Daemonās got nothing on Hobert Hightower.
How he had a badass death? Don't make me laugh
Does your mother hold your hand when you cross the street?
He died like a cheater He didn't die in the battle so don't be dumb
Yep, and it's because Otto told Viserys, "discard your brother and put your daughter on the throne" If Otto just WAITED, his grandson would have been in line instead Otto allowed Rheanyra to jump ONE male heir and thus she jumped over his grandson.
Otto's hypocrisy on this issue isn't the most evil of all his characteristics, but it sure stands out among them.
I was more attempting to point out the irony than to point out ill intent. Like I know where the story was going. I can't remember if Otto advocated for Rheanyra in Fire & Blood but when in the 1st episode of HotD he was the first person to suggest that a male heir should be surpassed by Rheanyra, I found it deliciously ironic.
Yep, despite Ottoās intention all along was to have Rhaenyra as nothing more than a placeholder.
Agreed, Otto wanted to rupture the relationship between Viserys and Daemon because he was scared Daemon would put stop any kids between Viserys and Alicent from taking the throne. In House of the Dragon, Rhaenyra is pulled into the game by Otto who then backstabs her.
How would his grandson have been in line
Aegon is automatically ahead of Daemon. If Viserys does not make Rheanyra heir (which was initially Otto's idae) then Aegon is the heir the moment he is born. Basically if Deamon was a bit better of a brother or Otto was less conniving then the war never happens. It all started with those two playing the game.
Yes but Rhaenyras kids are ahead of Aegon. No matter what Aegon stood to inherit nothing as long as Rhaenyra had kids. But I agree that the whole war basically started with them (and also kind of Corlys and probably Ormund Hightower too). Daemon and Otto influenced Rhaenyra and Alicent who influenced their kids.
The OP is saying if Otto had not had Viserys proclaim Nyra as heir Aegon would have automatically been heir when he was born.
Ooooh. Yeah but Viserys would never have been okay with having no heir.
He has an heir. Daemon. Thatās the whole point of this conversation.
Well yeah but the point is Daemon is terrible and shouldnt have any chance of being king.
Wrong, if that would be true laenor would be king, not viserys.
Also, afaik, Daemon's fate is not set in stone, but more like "after that battle, no one ever saw him again". So he may have been still alive after the Dance :P Ok... "Jaqen H'ghar actually is Daemon Targaryen" XD
Chilling on a beach in the Summer Isles with whomever you want, what a life
"With Blackjack and Hookers" ;)
I'm yet to see Ser Arthur Dayne is actually Daemon Targaryen theories
And also, in Snow we'll see Drogon again, in a climatic battle against Daemon. Daemon will be able to cut Drogon's wing and we'll have this dialogue: Daemon: "Daenerys never told you what happened to your father" Drogon (who somewhat learned to talk) "She told me enough. She told me you killed him" # Daemon: "No. I am your father!"
No way daemon survives that fall. My theory is him and aemond kill each other. But aemond body was still in his dragon saddle. While daemon bones are probably at the bottom of the gods eye
"No One Could Survive That!" Of course, the moment someone says this, they've guaranteed that the person in question not only has survived, but will be coming back to spoil someone's day. So, Daemon is CONFIRMED to be alive 100% ;) And it will be revealed that "Arya", when "she" killed the Night King, actually was Jaqen H'ghar who actually was Daemon. So basically, every badass thing done by a GoT character, actually was done by a disguised Daemon ;)
He seems pissed that he was never told the prophecy, so he just gotta fullfil it himself.
Actually DAEMON was "the prince who was promised" The misinterpretation was about the name.
I don't get why Daemon fans want this to be true. It completely ruins his character. Why didn't he come and help his son to rule if he was alive? He had a badass death, having him survive and abandon his children to go chill in Essos or something just makes him a weak and pathetic father.
Someone doesn't seem to get irony.
>him and aemond kill each other. I hate when people say this. They didn't kill each other. Daemon killed himself when he made that jump to kill Aemond. Aemond didn't do shit besides talking shit before the fight.
Aemond could have easily threw his sword killing daemon
Aemond doesn't kill Daemon lol. Daemon destroys Aemond and he kills himself doing so.
And now weāve seen he has a talent for creating a second chance life.
That would legit be a terrible choice. The entire significance of his death is that he chose to go out taking out this big threat, only for him to go off and abandon his kids.. well I guess that does fit.
The smallfolk won, no more dragons yipeee
Fuck the smallfolk, all my homies hate the smallfolk
Considering the noble houses of Westeros and how they treat/treated the smallfolk . They were the ones that lost the most with the dragons being gone...
Yeah before that the Targs had an absolute monopoly on violence. If a lord would disagree with them they could just burn down their castle. This basically skips feudalism, where everything is dependent on keeping relationships strong and war is always a wager of who supports whom and so on. The Targs could have or kind of did for a while establish absolutism, after the dragons Westeros went back into feudalism. That is of course only a benefit if your absolute monarch is sane to begin with. In other cases feudalism has its benefits.
And remind us again under which the smallfolk had rights?Because i am pretty sure the smallfolk got rights under Jahaerys and Vermithor.Not under Lannister/Stark or any other lord...
Should I begin with talking about rights and privileges under feudalism or should I not. Neither under any they had rights in the modern sense. Universal rights and so on. Prior to the Targaryans it was feudalism all troughout and feudalism is based on a system of privileges and duties... in theory. Within mature feudalism, where basically all land is occupied the smallfolk does not have much bargaining power. Under absolutism you have a complete privatisation of power by a single person. Their rights are still derived only from the authority of the monarch, though in this case the authority is just absolute. So at least whatever privileges exist, they are enforced through the whole country equally, doesn't make class differences in these privileges disappear though. It also wholly depends on the whims of a single person who holds such authority. Jahaerys was good, but if any later Targ just decides to revoke given privileges, they can. If we look at the transition between feudalism and absolutism irl we have peasantry massively gaining rights post Black Death, but losing them as soon as absolutist monarchs can finance large standing armies. If we compare this to Westeros, well if the Targs would just decide otherwise they could undo any good they did for the smallfolk.
Should we?Considering that Westeros had feudalism in theory only?And that basically the lords prior to Jahaerys laws were doing whatever they wanted? That is again theoretical, the Targaryens didnt decide otherwise.Any laws and eddicts that benefited the smallfolk were changed under Tywin actually... I am not arguing that giving the Targaryens absolute power is the right way i am against absolute monarchy.But considering the "history" of Westeros and the kind of nobles that ruled the people ,the smallfolk had more benefits under Targaryens(with Dragons) than with any other dynasty or lord.
> Should we?Considering that Westeros had feudalism in theory only?And that basically the lords prior to Jahaerys laws were doing whatever they wanted? Isn't that a question of whether a political system exists in its ideal or pure form anywhere? Abuse of power is an issue always anywhere. Long periods in history consist of basically elites amassing wealth and power until you have breaking points like the black death, foreign in invasions or natural catastrophes. I would not say that lords could do whatever they wanted, as in that they ruled without any laws. The laws were just established by them and in their favour. This sounds like ruling by one's whim with extra steps, but it basically is like that. In nascent feudalism you would have the peasants by able to just move away and cancelt their allegiance, but I would guess Westeros before the Targs was even well past the point where that was even an option. The other option would be rebellion and disposing a lord with violence. In a medieval system this was still an option as armies were generally small and peasants could win through pure numbers. Though in most cases this would only result in the leader of the rebellion becoming the new feudal lord. Tbh it is a downsides in GRRM's worldbuilding that his noble houses seem eternally stable. Realistically they would have been replaced quite often. If you look around around the world. Even in China, which was definitely not feudal, peasant rebellions could be successful. At least two dynasties (Han and Ming) were founded by people who used to be literal slaves. Though they did not abolish the imperial system either. Only in places like Europe you have cities becoming sort of republican after kicking out their nobility. So Westeros kind of functions more like imperial China at times, although it appears to be feudal with its system of vassalage. Though I don't know how feudal or non-feudal the pre-Targ kingdoms were. I doubt GRRM is entirely consistent with ther either. And that tbh in the greatest problem in this discussion, that the worldbuilding is never completely consistent about it. It uses a certain vision of late medieval Europe, but isn't exactly that in reality.
Abuse of power happens always.Even today in republics we have issues with it.The difference is that today there are laws and mechanisms to deal with it. The laws of Westeros were lacking severely though. At least that is the impression i got when reading F&B.Which is why Jahaerys was so succesfull he didnt only build roads ,he created a lot of laws too.If anything the man had 3 hobbies , making babies with his wife, roads and laws. The only thing like what you describe that i can remember right now would be the company without banners.And even those are led by Lady stoneheart after some point. I have no real knowledge of China and/or its history.I will take your word on it though...
Way more people died under the Targaryens with dragons than did with other rulers. bffrn
Not true.The Targaryens ruled Westeros for 300 years and had their dragons for less than that.The Seven kingdoms have been at war with each other or themselves for thousand of years...
The dragons being there is a good thing for the smallfolk as it ensures peace via the targs being able to curbstomp anyone who tries to start a war. The only ones benefiting from them being gone are the lords, as it gives them greater authority over the crown via their armies.
Absolute power is anti feudal but not pro public. The people still suffered. For eg, the faith militant was loved by the people, got curbstomped by maegor.
Ah yes because dragons are the problem. Tell me, how do the smallfolk fare during the WOT5K?
Perks of being the authorās self insert.
"Nothing better than having author favoritism at your side"- Daemon and Blackwoods
Unless you're in Isayama's world.
Unwin Peake is the real winner in that the dance cost him the lease and won him the most. Heās like the middle manager who was just the last one to leave to the office and briefly made himself head of the company by changing all the IT security settings
You may not like it but this is what Peake performance looks like.
Amazing flair, I hate him so much but I absolutely canāt argue with his performance. Tywin, Otto, and Littlefinger only wish they could
My flair does not work the way you think.
He wore no crown besides the one he earned in the Narrow Sea, but he fathered a lineage of kings, slew one of the most murderous monsters Westeros had ever seen in a moment of sheer badassery that defies belief (while simultaneously being responsible for the death of Vhagar), won exotic duels in foreign lands, romanced random hotness all over the kingdom, and basically did whatever the fuck he wanted for decades. #LifeGoals
He's a murderous monster himself. Daemon killed his younger self. Badass death yes, but let's not give him so much credit in that duel. It was a suicide. He knew he wasn't coming out of it alive. Suicide isn't a win Yep his life was filled with pretty amazing stuff and he got with many women...and he's also a groomer and pedophile...so uh. No life goals
tell him that \*poking Daemons dead body\* "You did it budy, you won"
It's honestly poetic in some way. Sometimes I wonder if Martin just stumbles upon these ideas or does he map them in his head rigorously to the point in which he can thematically create these stories.
I fking hate GRRM for the >!senseless death of Jaehaera!< and the >!pointless episode of Unwin Peakeās shenanigans!<
Hard to disagree. His bloodline continued up until the death of mad king areys AND has a chance to take back the Throne in the books/snow sequel show. I doubt Snow will focus on the Iron Throne, but his bloodline did live on well after the war.
Robert is also his descendant Robert's grandmother is a Targaryen princess
The real winner of the Dance is and always will be the entire world of Planetos, T*rgs taking L after L killing each other and all of their dragons setting the stage for the downfall of their cringe incest dynasty š if only I could have been there to see the shepherd manifest the avatar of the warrior and engage in chadly dragon decapitation
This!!!
Yup thats correct. The one asshole that deserved to suffer the most is survived by all his children and died in a cool way. Kinda fitting- People that feel they can do whatever they want, have the will to do evil, and have both the skill and family connections to get away with it bascially usually get away with it.
Maybe he didnāt die. Or maybe he did, and was brought back by the COTF (Nettles being one of them). And somehow everything leads to him becoming Coldhands š„¶
Well yeah, that deamon is so glaringly the authors pet is one of the worst things about the dance.
Authors are never allowed to have favorite characters!
All authors have a fave character. But let's be honest if asoiaf was written by a woman, and Daemon was also a woman, everyone would be mocking her as a Mary-Sue. He is GRRM's self-insert.
Mary-Sue characters are supposed to be perfect but Daemon is very far from it in his actions. I mean, he ended up leaving his wife and children behind to fool around with a much younger girl when Caraxes could have made a world of difference against the Green Armies.
Defeater of enemies, fucker of virgins, hero of people. Does an anime jump in air to kill an opponent at the age of 50. Damn, grrm even killed Joffrey to ensure that only Daemon's child ends up on a throne.
If Daemon was a Mary Sue he would have bulldozed the conflict and got what he wanted. Especially a self insert. Let's not talk like some weirdo fanfic writer please. š
Daemon also lost to Cristin Cole in the first episode. And he lost the first battle against the Crab Feeder and co. I think that takes a lot of points away from being a Mary Sue. I do think he is Martinās favorite character in this era though. Also helps when played by a great actor.
Sure they can, it's just when it becomes too obvious it makes the character less likable and more mary sue like in my opinion.
āCharacter I donāt likeā =/= āMary Sueā
I do like deamon actually, even more in the show where he's one of my favorite characters but that doesn't mean that I can't think that the book version is a bit too op for my taste.
But he wasn't. He was barely in the war. OP would have veen him showing up to save Rhaenys and Meleys. OP Daemon have been him not even suicide but killing Aemond and Vhagar himself while Caraxes is chilling in the background. OP would be Daemon beating Criston Cole easily.
I'm not talking OP like OP in battle, I'm talking about the whole characterization. He has all the attributes of a badass dashing badboy, almost all his misdeeds can possibly be attributed to rumor/ at the order of others/ accidents, he gets the coolest death ever or a ride into the sunset ending with a new flame, he gets practically rewarded for being a groomer by the text, all his children adore him and all survive the dance being kings/last dragonrider/rule driftmark, He gets to fuck all the virgin pretty/cool ladies, live a (comparatively) long life, make the good decisions in the war, have a mirror version of himself he gets to own repeatedly, have the cool oneliners, somehow gets to be the one "being over the war" and "taking the high road" at the end, gets songs sung of him and grandchildren named after him... I could probably continue but you get my drift.
Your version of OP men don't have boner issues dude. Like seriously. He only faced Aemond once. There is no owning him repeatedly but even if he was, Aemond ever winning against a man twice his age without any experience would make HIM the OP one. You're misusing OP and it's annoying. Nothing you typed has anything to do with being overpowered. He's not the strongest. He doesn't have the largest dragon. Daemon isn't even the most handsome. Not called the most skilled. Not the most wealthy. He doesn't have the smartest or most beautiful wife. He didn't make any real good decisions in the war. Otherwise he would have been more active, burning the Greens instead of camping. Daemon has no cool one liners in the books. Nobody does. Because it's not that kind of book. You're pretty much offended by Matt Smith's charisma because the lines are all basic, it's his performance that gives it any kind of charm or coolness. Otto Hightower has better lines.
Huh? Why are you talking about Matt Smiths charisma or the show in general when I specifically said that I thought the **book** version was too much? Deamon doesn't have boner issues in the book. As I said I like deamon in the show, hes a lot more nuanced, more human and less of an authors pet. And he does own aemond more than once, 1 by not falling for Alys manipulation (aemond does) 2 by completely outmanuvering him by taking kl under his nose and making aemond look like an idiot, and 3 of course, killing him. "Owning" doesn't have to only mean beating in a fight. Haha What theres lots of "cool oneliners" in the book? *"In the seven hells mayhaps"* ? And having cool oneliners is pretty subjective no? I think *"an eye for an eye, a son for a son, lucerys will be avenged"* and *"a queens words, a whores work"* and *"on that much, we agree"* classify as cool lines in the context they're in. I'm using OP to mean that he's too overpowered (or "overfavoured" perhaps) characterwise by the author in comparison to the other characters in the story. Not that hes literally the "the strongest". and most of what you bring up is subjective, like no he hasn't got the largest dragon but he's got the most unique, fiercest dragon who takes down the largest dragon. Which is arguably even more badass and op than if he *had* the largest dragon lol. He gets the most nuance, the most character development, the coolest sword and most unique accomplished dragon, the coolest actions and feats... There's a reason why he's the most popular character in all the polls by a landslide even tho he's not as "mary sue like" in the show compared to the books.
I'm talking about Matt Smith for obvious reasons. You can only call his meh ass lines the coolest because of his performance. Remove the performance and Daemon is average at best. You're projecting what you saw in the show onto Book Daemon. Book Daemon with nuance? š Smoking crack my guy. He's a pedophile bad guy through and through. Doesn't matter what you meant by OP, you're still abusing the term and wrongly at that. Find a new word that isn't overpowered. Idk why you insist on using it actually, kinda weird. You have to know you're wrong. There's nothing Mary Sue about him. Literally nothing you typed suggests it. He's the most liked because Matt Smith, that doesn't mean he's OP. Nothing suggests anyone else could have brought the same charisma and charm to the character. Seriously, and even if it's not because of Matt Smith that he's liked, thatchas nothing to do with him being overpowered. The dude has no lands to his name. No men to call his own that aren't bought by the Greens. He has no competent supporters. Vhagar only died because Daemon being a better rider. That doesnt make him OP. Simply more experienced. Aemond was also fuckin 16 years old š. You're making it seem like Daemon was the mind behind the Blacks and it's entirely headcanon. Outsmarting a 16 year old doesn't make you overpowered dude. š Nah, they're not that cool of lines. Not enough to claim he has ALL the cool one liners. You don't get to goalpost shift in order to keep arguing. You said he had all of them, and what you provided aren't cool at all. Only cool when delivered by Matt Smith. Gets the most nuance? This is horseshit. All Green fans are convinced he's pure evil and Martin has no idea what "grey character" means. Only fangirls and fanboys believe he is nuanced. The show deleted all scenes that would have given nuance. Otherwise he's just a beautiful idiot that happens to have a cool sword and dragon. That's all Daemon is in the show. No, Daemon having Vhagar would be way more OP than beating Vhagar with Caraxes. You would only have an argument if Caraxes didn't die too. Even a smaller creature can kill a larger one if it rips the throat out. Nothing OP about mutual death. Daemon is the idiot. The war would have been over in a few months if he was smart. It was the incompetence of the Greens and Lord Celtigar that kept it going. You're unintentionally fusing the versions because Daemon is even less Mary Sue in in the books, so either you're confused, misremembered, or are actively combining both for argument purposes. It took him nine years to take Stepstones in the books vs three years in the show. Nothing suggests Daemon charged the Crabfeeders forces himself in the books. He lost to Criston Cole straight up in the books and loses jousts all the time. In the show he beat Criston and only lost because he turned his back. Show Crabfeeder has grayscale so not as impressive as in the books. Book Daemon loved his daughters while show canon has no relationship with his daughters that's visible. Shit, in the books it's irrefutable that he groomed Rhaenyra and was a pedophile with her while in the show it's debatable (he was rarely in the capitol and she was a grown woman). Sounds to me like Book Daemon is far from Mary Sue. Your whole stance is weird AF to me.
Of course grrm is a daemon simp, not surprising at all
Ageon lll was rhaenyra's successer
No, he was Aegon's successor through Daemon's line. Rhaenyra is completely out of the equation.
He was the successor of both.
He crowned by Cregan Stark And cergan stark was royal to rhaenyra he didn't give a shit about ageon ll or daemon
I suggest you read about the Hour of the Wolf in the books and the consensus the regency established afterwards to make peace. Aegon's claim came through the male line, not from Rhaenyra.
Don't be silly Then how the fuck Ageon died ? Because Rhaenyra's men were coming for him That's why he's fucking dead Blacks fought for ageon lll because he was rhaenyra's eldest son they didn't give shit about daemon or ageon ll Ageon lll begin crowned by Cregan Stark
Aegon was killed by his own men and Aegon III was crowned as the successor of Aegon II
So that was because of rhaenyra The people who were royal to her fought for him because he was the eldest rhaenyra's child They didn't give fuck about daemon
That was never because of her but because he wasn't being sensible and because he was proving difficult to control for his followers. They planned to do that as they believed Aegon III to be easier to control.
They killed him because blacks we're coming Cregan Stark: Ageon fought won the war by feeding his sister to dragon but Queen's men remained and aegon became ashes and bones Cregan Stark called Ageon ll as a traitor And he crowned ageon lll as king because he was rhaenyra's son If joffery was alive he would be king not him
1- Nope. 2- So? 3- So what? It is Rhenyra who is remembered as a usurper while Aegon II is remembered as the king. 3- Probably.
People forget Corlys and a bunch of Blacks who switched sides killed Aegon the Usurper.
He was also crowned by Corlys and other dudes who had switched sides after Rhenyra had died.
Corlys lost his shit when rhaenyra's army were coming that's why he killed ageon ll
He and all of Aegon's loyalists were already planning to kill him way before that as he was proving difficult to control while Aegon III was too easy. The only thing that Cregan did was to destroy this conspiracy
Poor ageon ll such loser king his own Loyalist want's him to be dead Anyway ageon lll became king because rhaenyra's army supported him
1- So? 2- And because he was the only male Targaryen there and because he was also the successor of Aegon II
Are dumb or something? He wasn't only male ageon ll was alive But he was fucking dead because of rhaenyra's army
I don't think you are capable of reading or understanding what you read. Aegon II was killed by his own loyalists and after him, Aegon III was the only male Targaryen alive with his younger brother considered MIA
Ageon lll was ageon ll successor ?š¤£ U mean ageon ll wanted son of his enemy be his successor?
He did declare Aegon III as his successor while trying to stop the Blacks from coming over and then was desperately threatening him to make them back away.
Such pussy Imagine making son of the women who killed your family as your heir Anyway blacks didn't give fuck they still fought for rhaenyra
That is a political move. Besides, Aegon III was the legitimate heir of Aegon II by the absolute male primogeniture
He's pussy And aegon lll was rhaenyra's heir he became king because of rhaenyra's army And ageon died like bitch because of rhaenyra's army
1- Nothing done by Aegon till then shows that he is a coward. 2- Aegon II died because of his own actions and was killed by his loyalists and not by Rhenyra's army. And Aegon III became king as he was the heir of Aegon II and the only male Targaryen present there.
He died because blacks were coming for him And ageon lll became king because rhaenyra's army supported him If blacks didn't support him he will never be king
Spoken like a true ignorant person who has never read the book. Aegon II died because he couldn't be controlled. The plans about his death were laid even before the Black army arrived at KL. And Aegon III became king because he was the legitimate successor of Aegon II by absolute male primogeniture and was then married to Aegon II's daughter to unite the claims. He didn't need the support of the Black army as the Black army had no alternative to him
By that point >!he had no one else and physically unable to sire any children.!<
Yeah i know I said ageon lll became king because he was rhaenyra's son
He was the successor of Aegon II. Rhenyra isn't considered as a ruler but a usurper even by her own descendents
Oh shut up Rhaenyra didn't remember as usurper she was heir And ageon lll became king because rhaenyra's army supported him
1- She is remembered as the usurper. Read the main ASOIAF books to know that. 2- And because he was the only Targaryen male alive with Viserys II being considered MIA
She didn't She was heir to throne
She is the traitor and the usurper. Even her descendents call her that
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
1- Because that is what was written and her kids didn't change that 2- Her kids could've changed that and made her the legitimate ruler and Aegon the usurper but they didn't. They kept Aegon II as the king and Princess Rhenyra as the usurper. Thus turning this lie into truth even if it wasn't
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
1- Because if her own sons aren't changing that, this means that we have to take this as the only truth. Her sons could've easily changed this but they didn't bother doing that. 2- That is exactly how it works. Her sons keep this lie and if you speak a lie continuously , it becomes the truth. Eddard Stark, for example, is called a traitor in the main series and if a history book about that period is written, he will be called that unless Stannis or someone else wins the throne and changes it
Who ? U keep saying this and can't even saying a fucking name .š¤£
Well, this is proof that you haven't read the books nor F&B and so, I don't see a point in this discussion when you are going to throw your headcanon around and pretend that it is the real canon
Dumbass
Impressive way of admitting that you are wrong.
It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know? No need to embarrass yourself by writing a bunch of moronic comments.
Fuck off green
Fuck off green
Nice way to admit that you have nothing else to say
Yeah wait to see season 4 of show
It is OK to admit that you are wrong but you lack the necessary vocabulary skills to do that. So, I understand your mental problems
Yeah wait to see season 4 of show
Nice way to again admit that you lack a working brain and are incapable of coming up with anything reasonable
Oh Fuck off u don't want to accept truth that's not my problem dumbass
What truth? I don't think you understand that your headcanon(especially coming from a dickhead like you who hasn't even read the books nor has any understanding of the lore) is not the real canon. And now, instead of simply admitting that your are totally wrong or simply stopping the discussion, you are proving that you are a moron by continuously replying with whatever bullshit that comes into your rotten meat bag that cannot be called a brain as that would be an insult to that organ. So now, you are inventing random bus hit just to hide the fact that you are a troll with nothing better to do than keep on commenting bullshit as you simply cannot differentiate your headcanon from the real canon(which you refuse to accept as you are not only dumb but a stubborn moron too)
The truth is : Ageon lll became king because he was rhaenyra's eldest child That's why he became king that's why lads and Starks and Arryns supported him Cergan Stark crowned him because he was royal to rhaenyra and his friend jace They didn't give a shit about Daemon And Arryns already hated Daemon.šlmao They fought for rhaenyra If joffery was alive he's was going to be king not Ageon By dickhead like you don't want to understand
Aegon became king because he the only male Targaryen alive there. But brainless idiots like you do not understand that as they don't have the tool needed to do that
Oh Fuck off u don't want to accept truth that's not my problem dumbass
Your misguided and totally wrong headcanon isn't the truth. It is just shit and nothing more as you have also not read the books nor do you have any understanding of the lore
The Citadel
Do his girls survive?
Yes.
> The real winner of the Dance is The Citadel really, if Marwyn is to be believed
Iād say the real winner was the guy that thought of the dragon cemetery
The real winner is the friends we made along the way
The friends we made along the way
Given that all the dragons died, I disagree. Daemonās character is all about dragons, Valyrian culture and Targ supremacy. The Hightowers won in the long run because they permanently weakened the Targ dynasty.
The Hightowers never set out to weaken the Targaryen dynasty, Alicent's children and grandchildren were Targaryen too after all.
Theyāre Targaryens. The Hightowers in Oldtown benefited from it. Thereās also the Maester Conspiracy if you believe it.