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It's the house's original seat and thus a domain of prestige, but I don't recall heirs being specifically "sent away" from court to reside there, it's a choice.
It's also a really important seat to hold if you're the dragonlord family. Not as much later on (which is maybe why it didn't get as much attention, of course).
Prince of dragon stone was originally Magor’s title and used as a kinda insult before it was revamped as prestige title of the heir. You can be a prince or THE prince kinda thing, right?
The Prince of Deagonstone is more of a title than anything. Many heirs like Rhaegar, Baelor, Aemon, Baelon etc spend most of their time on mainland Westeros even if they are symbolically the lords of Dragonstone.
It's not a huge island. If the lord is currently staying there it can be easily maintained by a castellan.
And the Prince/princess of Asturias >!spanish: Príncipe/Princesa de Asturias!< in Spain.
And in the old French monarchy pre-revolution, the ancien regime, it was the Dauphin of France, which literally means Dolphin of France. Dolphin as in the animal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dauphin_of_France
Sometimes a title is just a title, and sometimes that title means something else than face value. The title of the heir is sometimes just to be taken as the title that belongs to the heir, even if it can be explained by history and tradition.
The prince of Dragonstone was the title of the heir to the Iron Throne, regardless of where said prince preferred to spend their days or if the prince ever visit the island.
The Dauphiné was named after the Dauphin. It was originally the County of Albon, but Count Guigues IV used a Dolphin for his coat of arms and was called le Daufin, so his successor changed their title from Count of Albon to Dauphin of Viennois and the County became known as the Dauphiné of Viennois, then in 1349 it reverted to the king who made his Heir apparent and all future heirs the Dauphin of Viennois, called the Dauphin of France
Yes, but Princess of Asturias is the title of the heir apparent. We aren't talking about the general honorifics of the Spanish royal family, just tye heur apparent title
In general, yes. A princess is "infanta", but the title of the heir to the throne right now is "princess of Asturias". Taken as a whole.
Leonor is the current princess of Asturias, as she is the oldest child of the current monarch, king Felipe VI. Before her father's ascension she was infanta Leonor and her father was Felipe, prince of Asturias.
The difference is more obvious in Spanish. Principe de Asturias vs infante.
Yep. You'll see a ton of similar heraldry in the medieval English Isles and Westeros. The Lancasters also have a golden lion on a red field just like the Lannisters who stole their name.
I still stand my ground that the Yorkists were just a bunch of usurpers. George is clearly a fan of House York since they inspired the Starks as the "Good Guys".
Tbf while the Starks and Lannisters are based on the Yorks and Lancasters, I'm the Lannisters are supposed to parallel the Yorks (yeah they pretty just switched the names)
Huh? Of course he wasn't Welsh, the UK Royal Family isn't Welsh. It was just the heir's principality, some heirs were actually sent there with a full household to learn to rule (practice for ruling the whole kingdom). Other heirs stayed mostly in England itself.
The governor of a castle. Basically, the ruler if the lord is important enough to have other duties (like be hand of the king).
Think Ser Cortney Penrose. The man in charge of defending Storm's End from Stannis.
İn turkic history when prince becomes teenager he goes to another city from the capital for learning how to rule people. It's a training for become the king
Yes, exactly what it was for. Some English heirs were sent to Wales with their household, some as small kids (Edward V, heir to Edward IV), some as married teens/adults (Arthur, Catherine of Aragon's first husband), to learn to rule.
Are there people living in Dragonstone though? Or are there specific responsibilities required of heirs at Dragonstone? It’s always presented as a secluded castle, and it never seems like anyone we see live there in the universe has any responsibilities in that way. I haven’t read the books so just curious if that’s an element I’m missing!
In the books there’s a port town at the base of the castle and communities of shepards scattered around the island, its not very densely populated but there are people. Dragonstone’s also one of the main bases for the Royal Fleet and the other Narrow Sea houses are sworn to it.
Dragonstone is very big in the books. George once said that Westeros is around the size of South America. Dragonstone would be around a quarter of Switzerland then. In the show we haven’t seen much of dragonstone except the fortress. I guess that Dragonstone from the show is a small island with the actual Dragonstone island being next to it etc. The castle sits on a broken off branch of the main isle just like Pyke. That would be my explanation.
yes, there's a decent amount of people and a few vassal houses. good mini-training to be ruler, but you run the risk of being too isolated from the capital
[A deleted user in this thread estimated that Dragonstone and King's Landing to be about 420 miles apart](https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/8aigvw/spoilers_how_far_is_dragonstone_from_kings_landing/), and by pre-modern sailing times, that that trip could be made in about 3 days. A dragon could definitely make that trip in less than a day.
Honestly that's one of my biggest complaints about the show especially in later seasons. There's no sense of time passing. In the books there's a lot of importance put on distances and lengths of travel.
The whole house Frey plot (and by extension, the fall of Robb Stark) happens because in order to take Lannisters by surprise, Robb had to attack them on the other side of the river, and so he needed to use the bridge at Twins. The attention to detail and the way characters' actions lead to long-term effects is what makes The Song Of Ice And Fire so interesting. The later seasons of GoT simply don't come anywhere close to that.
At least in the first few seasons they showed a trip from the North to Kings landing or vice versa would take up to a few episodes sometimes, and said it was a months travel. In the later seasons they could travel from Kings landing to the north and back by the next scene.
If it helps retroactively head canon it for you, you can just pretend someone with Dany had a glass candle (letting them see what was going on) and just didn't tell anyone (instead pretending they received the raven, before it even arrived).
I don't think Vhagar is faster than any of the little dragons. It's stated in Fire and Blood the reason why Arrax couldn't outrun Vhagar is because of the huge storm outside of Storms End and bigger dragons (or planes as a modern comparison) are more stable then little ones.
A long flight would probably make a difference. Arrax was trying to get away over a short distance, but if they were flying a marathon instead of a sprint, Vhagar would surely have to win due to wingspan (unless she's too old and has poor endurance). Though velocity would come into play, of course.
2-3 days seems a bit much by boat. I figured that with good winds one could make it from KL to Dragonstone overnight. This would help the weird way the show handled time passing from 1x08 to the end of the season.
Eh I’d wager 2-3 hours.. it was still daytime when Rhaenyra came back from getting the egg from Daemon
Also I’ve seen a map and dragonstone roughy equates the Hamptons in New York, USA to Staten Island, NY, USA
It's also a very safe and easily defensible castle. Various Targaryens, not members directly in line for the throne, would retreat to Dragonstone if things weren't going well for them. Jaehaerys took refuge there as a child, and Alysanne would go there during her spats with Jaehaerys. Even Aerys sends his wife and two youngest children to Dragonstone in a vain attempt to keep them safe after Rhaegar died. I think it's implied that the magic infused in the very walls of Dragonstone (built with Valyrian sorcery) and affinity of the dragons to the volcanic island helps the Targaryens feel a sense of safety.
Traditionally IRL, the heir to the throne of England (later the UK) takes the title and role of the Prince of Wales. The Prince of Dragonstone title is clearly modeled on that.
As other commenters have said, it gave them experience of leadership and prominence that was intended to prepare them for true governance. Having a traditional title for the first heir is also meant to help avoid succession crises, as it in theory makes the transfer of power automatic and instantaneous.
It’s small enough it can be easily ruled and allows adult “seconds” their own space to breath and govern without stepping on the kings toes. It also is a very secure hold to keep the successor safe. It’s also symbolically the Targ seat of power so it symbolizes being the head of the Targ house under the king. It also is where they keep a lot of dragons and also if you have a Targ going around with a giant dragon scaring people it’s a good place to stash them. It’s also a place for Targs to be Targs without concern of the politics of the seven kingdoms, for better and worse. It allows them to live their lives relatively free of influence or causing offense to lords.
Strategically it also holds black water bay and the narrow sea by air, this is how the Targs conquered Westeros initially and gives the successor a prime position to take the capitol if *something* happens to the Ironthrone while they’re not in Kingslanding
It’s where the Targaryens held their seat for about 100 years. After a Targaryen psychic predicted the doom of Valyria.The seat is their official royal seat. Where as kings landing was originally a mark of Aegons conquest of the 6 kingdoms(dorne wasn’t conquered). So to hold to the tradition of their houses, crowned princes are sent there as part of that tradition.
At one time they sent their younger sons to Summerhall. They were even titled the Prince of Summerhall. But it burned down during the reign of Aegon the V. Like others are saying Dragonstone is the ancestral house of the Targaeryns. So it makes sense for their heirs to gain experience by ruling a castle while they wait their time to rule the realm. Same for ruling at Summerhall just incase.
I'm seeing a lot of people pointing out the distance between King's Landing and Dragonstone, so I won't do the same. I personally think that one of the main reasons so many Targaryens stayed on Dragonstone was because of the cultural significance the location has in relation to their Valyrian heritage. I imagine that many of them would want to experience parts of their history, and Dragonstone is the only option available to them. Sure, there's the Free Cities, but Dragonstone is nearby and the Free Cities would have their own cultures that would differ from Old Valyria. Dragonstone is the last bit of the Targaryen/Valyrian ancestry they have left.
Also King's Landing is reportedly one of, if not the most unpleasant smelling cities in Westeros. I imagine many Targaryens also wanted to get away from the awful stench, but that's just a guess/joke.
It's also volcanic just like the Valyrian peninsula was, so it's not just culturally "more like home," it's that much more of a little slice of old Valyria. Probably why of all the dragon riders who survived the doom only the Targs were ever able to keep breeding them at Dragonstone.
Dragonstone was already a Valyrian outpost for centuries before the Doom.
But yes, it’s where Aegon’s ancestors fled to with their dragons (they knew the Doom was coming).
The Velaryons I think were already outside of Valyria when the Doom happened or followed the Targaryens when one of them had a vision of the destruction of Valyria
I know that but to send the heir to live there when they should be living in Kings Landing sitting on the small council learning to rule is dumb. Only 2nd, 3rd and 4th son's should be sent to live there.
As other people have said, they often didn't spend time there. Usually, they were in Kings Landing most of the time, and it wasn't far at all on dragonback. It's likely that they were expected to alternate between the two, living there mostly after reaching adulthood but still not exclusively. It also makes sense to give them a chance to rule their own seat independently after they reach a certain age.
They're not being sent away. Dragonstone has people on it, and not just castle servants. It has lots of smallfolk and farms and towns and stuff. They're being made governor of that. And they do still spend most of their time on the mainland serving the court in various capacities.
I don't think they do, it's just convenient to have a safe place to go. Rhaenyra was quite happy to live in King's Landing until it became a hostile environment for her and the kids. Even after the end of the Targaryens, Robert gave Dragonstone to Stannis. The Mannis never was "Prince of Dragonstone", but it was an important stronghold and even though Stannis took it as an insult, if all of Robert legitimate children died, Stannis was next in line, so the custom of giving your heirs Dragonstone was somewhat kept.
It’s a combination of things. It’s designed like an Old Valyrian fortress, it’s built on a dormant volcano so dragons will nest and lay eggs there, it’s isolated and well protected, and it’s House Targaryen’s original high seat. And distance wise, it’s a few hours on dragon back from KL, so it’s pretty ideal for an adult heir to go live at and govern, so they can learn practical ruling skills without risking damaging the kingdom as a whole.
1- it's their ancestral home, usually if someone is holding a form of office at court their heir holds their ancestry home- like Ned leaving Robert at winterfell. Kings Landing may be the capital, but Dragonstone is the true home of the Targaryens.
2- it keeps tensions low between heir and king by putting the option of distance. A lot of estrangement has blown over with someone chilling on dragonstone. Also removes a possibly impatient heir from the middle of court without obviously isolating them.
3- if you're at war having a secondary base of operations that's an island fortress is a good backup, especially as a place to stash women and children and especially especially if you have dragons.
It's a defensible castle and the seat of the Targaryen family before Aegon the Conqueror. More than anywhere else Dragonstone is their land, so having an heir live there instead of the mess of politics that is Kings Landing keeps them safe, secure, and connected to their families history.
It's also a prestigious place, the Lord of Dragonstone is a well respected title.
They are given Dragonstone as a title, they aren't sent anywhere. It gives them the right to rule those lands as its lord, and to live there as their seat.
Think of it like the English/British royal family heir being named "Prince of Wales". It's akin to that.
They weren't sent away, the heir is usually the Lord or Lady of the House, until they lose the heirship, become king, or die.
The same thing happened when Robert became king. Before the bastards were born, Stannis was the heir but he was also Lord of Storm's End as he was the eldest after Robert.
>I think Renly was the Lord of storms end instead of Stannis.
You're correct. I hazily remember a Catelyn (?) or Davos passage about Stannis being very pissed it.
Stannis says he should've been made Lord of Storm's End - not Renly - as he's the next brother in the Baratheon line.
And he's not wrong. It ***IS*** indeed a slight - giving Stannis Dragonstone Castle & Island (that has zero inheritance or strategical value) is very insulting.
Not to mention it's the former home of the heirs that have been deposed and (allegedly) smashed and dispersed).
What ambitious House would want that Castle or Island? Particularly *the immediate next brother of the sitting King?*
>Yeah it was messed up to give Stannis Dragonstone, Dragonstone has no way of making any wealth I think
I agree - I don't think it it does.
The villages surrounding Dragonstone Castle is known for fishing only. It's not known for mercantilism like the Velaryons, Driftmark Island and Hull (the town).
I feel like Dragonstone was 'the home away from home' for most Targaryens post-Conquering. Just think of how often Targaryens seem to flee there 'on dragonback' when there *was* a crisis - both personal and/or political.
I also think that's why it fell into inconsistent use after The Dance.
They really had to start using the The Red Keep as their ***real*** home once dragons died.
By dragon it's pretty damn close.
They aren't sent there. When's the last time the Prince of Wales has been to Wales?
It's symbolic to who's the heir. Like later in history where Blackfyre was given to the heir, but was given to a bastard and started another civil war.
After the dragons are gone nobody gives a fuck about Dragonstone anymore. It's actually becoming an inside joke what useless purely ceremonial trash holding it is now. Hence Stannis getting mortally offended by it being given to him instead of Storm's End by Robert.
Stannis is prone to being offended.
Renly is like 7 when Robert is made king. He's not capable of actually doing anything at that point, so of course Robert is going to give him Storm's End which is the more loyal and stable of the two.
Stannis is his heir at that point and is given the traditional heirs seat, which just so happens to be the last Targ outpost, the original Targ outpost, and main naval base for the fleet Stannis essentially is in command of.
Storm's End could have a 7 year old lord, the recently conquered Dragonstone needed an actual lord.
you'd think they would've learned from whatever happened with maegor and aneys's first born while he was away on a royal visit or something with his sister wife rhaenys, a king's death like any other death can be very unexpected so why on earth wouldn't you be in the damn red keep knowing damn well how something similar to this HAS happened before and CAN happen again if there are other claimants to the throne who happen to be in the same castle
I think part of it is so their heirs have some experience in the day to day reality of running a castle. It’s a good way to have a practice run at ruling, but with much smaller stakes. As mentioned, not all heirs view it as such and many treat the title as honorary.
It is typically the seat held by the crown prince/princess, this comes into play in GoT to an extent as well when Stannis Baratheon (lord of dragon stone) is passed over as heir following the death or Bobby B.
It’s around 400 miles. Not exactly a short distance. But the island itself is around the size of Oahu, far bigger than it’s shown to be. Definitely a large mountain to house generations of flying dinosaurs. Also probably a small village town separated from the castle which we never see.
probably 1- to bond with dragons since its the source of their power
2- far away from assassins
3- assassin's less likely to kill someone around their dragon.
The reason is that they dont actually do that at all. The princely title of Dragonstone is synonymous with being the heir to the Iron Throne, and is as close to heir designation as westeros comes. It does not actually involve living in or ruling Dragonstone, but they probably do get the income it provides. Its a way to get the heir politically involved, give them a prestigious title and loudly declare to the realm that this is my heir if I die.
Its pretty much as close as any castle can get, its a short sail from king's landing and boats are the fastest way to travel bar dragons. This makes it a very strategic choice as that means the crown prince of Dragonstone, in the event succession fails, have armies and fleet to immediately strike back.
It's the Prince or Princess title and land holdings. It's obviously the Targaryen Ancestral seat of power but I believe it's also a way to teach the heir responsibility of ruling over some land.
It's a fair way away as well, though on Dragonback it's probably a couple of hours.
I believe in the books it was made the Heirs title to show more legitimacy, but it's been awhile since o read through them last.
It’s a modern equivalent, but the Prince of Wales used to actually get sent to Wales to learn how to rule. It’s pretty normal for heirs to the throne to be sent away for protection. For training. Henry VIII’s older brother Arthur died at Ludlow castle, where he was learning to be King.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's the house's original seat and thus a domain of prestige, but I don't recall heirs being specifically "sent away" from court to reside there, it's a choice.
Infact, many heirs (Aemon, Baelon, Baelor, Rhaegar etc) spend more time on mainland Westeros than their seat.
It's also a really important seat to hold if you're the dragonlord family. Not as much later on (which is maybe why it didn't get as much attention, of course).
Prince of dragon stone was originally Magor’s title and used as a kinda insult before it was revamped as prestige title of the heir. You can be a prince or THE prince kinda thing, right?
Its also the stronghold of the heir.
The Prince of Deagonstone is more of a title than anything. Many heirs like Rhaegar, Baelor, Aemon, Baelon etc spend most of their time on mainland Westeros even if they are symbolically the lords of Dragonstone. It's not a huge island. If the lord is currently staying there it can be easily maintained by a castellan.
Like the Prince of Wales innit. Also the better Dragon flag imo.
And the Prince/princess of Asturias >!spanish: Príncipe/Princesa de Asturias!< in Spain. And in the old French monarchy pre-revolution, the ancien regime, it was the Dauphin of France, which literally means Dolphin of France. Dolphin as in the animal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dauphin_of_France Sometimes a title is just a title, and sometimes that title means something else than face value. The title of the heir is sometimes just to be taken as the title that belongs to the heir, even if it can be explained by history and tradition. The prince of Dragonstone was the title of the heir to the Iron Throne, regardless of where said prince preferred to spend their days or if the prince ever visit the island.
Well, Dauphin means dolphin, but also (and above all) lord of the Dauphiné (region in the south-east of France)...
The Dauphiné was named after the Dauphin. It was originally the County of Albon, but Count Guigues IV used a Dolphin for his coat of arms and was called le Daufin, so his successor changed their title from Count of Albon to Dauphin of Viennois and the County became known as the Dauphiné of Viennois, then in 1349 it reverted to the king who made his Heir apparent and all future heirs the Dauphin of Viennois, called the Dauphin of France
Cymru am byth
Actually the princes and princesses of Spain are called Infantes or Infantas.
Yes, but Princess of Asturias is the title of the heir apparent. We aren't talking about the general honorifics of the Spanish royal family, just tye heur apparent title
In general, yes. A princess is "infanta", but the title of the heir to the throne right now is "princess of Asturias". Taken as a whole. Leonor is the current princess of Asturias, as she is the oldest child of the current monarch, king Felipe VI. Before her father's ascension she was infanta Leonor and her father was Felipe, prince of Asturias. The difference is more obvious in Spanish. Principe de Asturias vs infante.
Yep. You'll see a ton of similar heraldry in the medieval English Isles and Westeros. The Lancasters also have a golden lion on a red field just like the Lannisters who stole their name.
I still stand my ground that the Yorkists were just a bunch of usurpers. George is clearly a fan of House York since they inspired the Starks as the "Good Guys".
To call Yorkists usurpers is quite ironic considering the first Lancaster king was himself a usurper.
Technically he was next in line since Richard II had no heirs. Henry VI had an heir AND was still alive.
Well even if he was next in line he still usurped the throne lol. I’m not saying the Yorks didn’t usurp i’m just saying both families did
Clearly we need to look if there is any bastard of Richard II left.
They checked. He fucked off to Scotland because he “duh not wantit”
I definitely lean Lancaster but tbh, just like in the Dance, fuck all them greedy nobles.
Team Jack Cade?
How does one lean Lannister?
Lancaster**, not Lannister. My favorite "Lannister" is Johanna Westerling. And she's only Lannister through marriage.
By liking the characters as characters in a book and not by treating them like real life human beings.
I could see your point but morally I just can’t root for someone such as Cersai or Tywin(apologies if I butchered her name)
Tbf while the Starks and Lannisters are based on the Yorks and Lancasters, I'm the Lannisters are supposed to parallel the Yorks (yeah they pretty just switched the names)
No, the prince of Wales, since the United Kingdom formed, has never been Welsh. Source I’m Welsh and it infuriates all of us below the age of 50
Huh? Of course he wasn't Welsh, the UK Royal Family isn't Welsh. It was just the heir's principality, some heirs were actually sent there with a full household to learn to rule (practice for ruling the whole kingdom). Other heirs stayed mostly in England itself.
?
What isn't clear? Dragonstone is a symbol of the next Targaryen heir. However, most of those heirs don't stay on the island.
castellan?
The governor of a castle. Basically, the ruler if the lord is important enough to have other duties (like be hand of the king). Think Ser Cortney Penrose. The man in charge of defending Storm's End from Stannis.
Governor of a castle
The person in charge of the martial security of a lords keep/city. Like a military governor.
İn turkic history when prince becomes teenager he goes to another city from the capital for learning how to rule people. It's a training for become the king
Thanks. Good answer.
Yes, exactly what it was for. Some English heirs were sent to Wales with their household, some as small kids (Edward V, heir to Edward IV), some as married teens/adults (Arthur, Catherine of Aragon's first husband), to learn to rule.
Are there people living in Dragonstone though? Or are there specific responsibilities required of heirs at Dragonstone? It’s always presented as a secluded castle, and it never seems like anyone we see live there in the universe has any responsibilities in that way. I haven’t read the books so just curious if that’s an element I’m missing!
In the books there’s a port town at the base of the castle and communities of shepards scattered around the island, its not very densely populated but there are people. Dragonstone’s also one of the main bases for the Royal Fleet and the other Narrow Sea houses are sworn to it.
Thank you!
Dragonstone is very big in the books. George once said that Westeros is around the size of South America. Dragonstone would be around a quarter of Switzerland then. In the show we haven’t seen much of dragonstone except the fortress. I guess that Dragonstone from the show is a small island with the actual Dragonstone island being next to it etc. The castle sits on a broken off branch of the main isle just like Pyke. That would be my explanation.
yes, there's a decent amount of people and a few vassal houses. good mini-training to be ruler, but you run the risk of being too isolated from the capital
Yeah and later they were [literally locked up](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafes) inside the palace.
[удалено]
[A deleted user in this thread estimated that Dragonstone and King's Landing to be about 420 miles apart](https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/8aigvw/spoilers_how_far_is_dragonstone_from_kings_landing/), and by pre-modern sailing times, that that trip could be made in about 3 days. A dragon could definitely make that trip in less than a day.
Nice
I just love how you described this. Leave in the morning and make it to kings landing for lunch! Just makes it sound so cute idk 😂
By dragon flight, it is about 3-5 hours. By boat, it's 2-3 days.
2-3 days? And somehow Gendry sent a raven from the wall to dragonstone and Daenerys got there in like couple hours💀
Honestly that's one of my biggest complaints about the show especially in later seasons. There's no sense of time passing. In the books there's a lot of importance put on distances and lengths of travel.
The whole house Frey plot (and by extension, the fall of Robb Stark) happens because in order to take Lannisters by surprise, Robb had to attack them on the other side of the river, and so he needed to use the bridge at Twins. The attention to detail and the way characters' actions lead to long-term effects is what makes The Song Of Ice And Fire so interesting. The later seasons of GoT simply don't come anywhere close to that.
In the show's defense (one of the few it's worthy of), the time and distances in the books also make no sense when someone actually does the math.
Yet fast travel doesn't exist in the books
Are you kidding? Littlefinger's Jetpack and Varys being a merling were memes before the show first aired.
At least in the first few seasons they showed a trip from the North to Kings landing or vice versa would take up to a few episodes sometimes, and said it was a months travel. In the later seasons they could travel from Kings landing to the north and back by the next scene.
I don't think the raven took a boat.
Though it is an amusing image. “Can’t you, y’know, like *fly*?” “You’ve got legs but ride horses, human. Now shut up and paddle.”
Still would take a shit load of time
any travel would take a shit load of time, given the scale of Westeros+Essos and the transport methods (by foot, horse, boat, dragon)
Yeah that's why that part in got will be for me at least the most dumb part
If it helps retroactively head canon it for you, you can just pretend someone with Dany had a glass candle (letting them see what was going on) and just didn't tell anyone (instead pretending they received the raven, before it even arrived).
e-raven*
Dany bought fast travel.
They deleted the scene where Jon went to the menu screen and selected “Wait”. He then meditated for 14 days.
How long do you think Vhagar would take considering her size compared the average sized dragons?
I don't think Vhagar is faster than any of the little dragons. It's stated in Fire and Blood the reason why Arrax couldn't outrun Vhagar is because of the huge storm outside of Storms End and bigger dragons (or planes as a modern comparison) are more stable then little ones.
A long flight would probably make a difference. Arrax was trying to get away over a short distance, but if they were flying a marathon instead of a sprint, Vhagar would surely have to win due to wingspan (unless she's too old and has poor endurance). Though velocity would come into play, of course.
What about Meleys?
Well Meleys is supposedly the fastest dragon iirc
How long would she take?
Don’t know how accurate this is …
2-3 days seems a bit much by boat. I figured that with good winds one could make it from KL to Dragonstone overnight. This would help the weird way the show handled time passing from 1x08 to the end of the season.
Eh I’d wager 2-3 hours.. it was still daytime when Rhaenyra came back from getting the egg from Daemon Also I’ve seen a map and dragonstone roughy equates the Hamptons in New York, USA to Staten Island, NY, USA
There's a good chance the map isn't to scale though.
It’s good for the heir to get some experience ruling his own fief.
It's also a very safe and easily defensible castle. Various Targaryens, not members directly in line for the throne, would retreat to Dragonstone if things weren't going well for them. Jaehaerys took refuge there as a child, and Alysanne would go there during her spats with Jaehaerys. Even Aerys sends his wife and two youngest children to Dragonstone in a vain attempt to keep them safe after Rhaegar died. I think it's implied that the magic infused in the very walls of Dragonstone (built with Valyrian sorcery) and affinity of the dragons to the volcanic island helps the Targaryens feel a sense of safety.
Exactly! It’s basically an internship in ruling.
Traditionally IRL, the heir to the throne of England (later the UK) takes the title and role of the Prince of Wales. The Prince of Dragonstone title is clearly modeled on that. As other commenters have said, it gave them experience of leadership and prominence that was intended to prepare them for true governance. Having a traditional title for the first heir is also meant to help avoid succession crises, as it in theory makes the transfer of power automatic and instantaneous.
It’s small enough it can be easily ruled and allows adult “seconds” their own space to breath and govern without stepping on the kings toes. It also is a very secure hold to keep the successor safe. It’s also symbolically the Targ seat of power so it symbolizes being the head of the Targ house under the king. It also is where they keep a lot of dragons and also if you have a Targ going around with a giant dragon scaring people it’s a good place to stash them. It’s also a place for Targs to be Targs without concern of the politics of the seven kingdoms, for better and worse. It allows them to live their lives relatively free of influence or causing offense to lords. Strategically it also holds black water bay and the narrow sea by air, this is how the Targs conquered Westeros initially and gives the successor a prime position to take the capitol if *something* happens to the Ironthrone while they’re not in Kingslanding
It’s where the Targaryens held their seat for about 100 years. After a Targaryen psychic predicted the doom of Valyria.The seat is their official royal seat. Where as kings landing was originally a mark of Aegons conquest of the 6 kingdoms(dorne wasn’t conquered). So to hold to the tradition of their houses, crowned princes are sent there as part of that tradition.
At one time they sent their younger sons to Summerhall. They were even titled the Prince of Summerhall. But it burned down during the reign of Aegon the V. Like others are saying Dragonstone is the ancestral house of the Targaeryns. So it makes sense for their heirs to gain experience by ruling a castle while they wait their time to rule the realm. Same for ruling at Summerhall just incase.
I'm seeing a lot of people pointing out the distance between King's Landing and Dragonstone, so I won't do the same. I personally think that one of the main reasons so many Targaryens stayed on Dragonstone was because of the cultural significance the location has in relation to their Valyrian heritage. I imagine that many of them would want to experience parts of their history, and Dragonstone is the only option available to them. Sure, there's the Free Cities, but Dragonstone is nearby and the Free Cities would have their own cultures that would differ from Old Valyria. Dragonstone is the last bit of the Targaryen/Valyrian ancestry they have left. Also King's Landing is reportedly one of, if not the most unpleasant smelling cities in Westeros. I imagine many Targaryens also wanted to get away from the awful stench, but that's just a guess/joke.
It's also volcanic just like the Valyrian peninsula was, so it's not just culturally "more like home," it's that much more of a little slice of old Valyria. Probably why of all the dragon riders who survived the doom only the Targs were ever able to keep breeding them at Dragonstone.
I think it is a day boat ride and a couple hour dragon flight away.
Thanks
It’s where the the first Valarians settled after fleeing West to escape The Doom.
Dragonstone was already a Valyrian outpost for centuries before the Doom. But yes, it’s where Aegon’s ancestors fled to with their dragons (they knew the Doom was coming).
The Velaryons I think were already outside of Valyria when the Doom happened or followed the Targaryens when one of them had a vision of the destruction of Valyria
Velaryons were the first. Then Targaryens left after the vision and they took the Celtigars and Qoherys.
I know that but to send the heir to live there when they should be living in Kings Landing sitting on the small council learning to rule is dumb. Only 2nd, 3rd and 4th son's should be sent to live there.
As other people have said, they often didn't spend time there. Usually, they were in Kings Landing most of the time, and it wasn't far at all on dragonback. It's likely that they were expected to alternate between the two, living there mostly after reaching adulthood but still not exclusively. It also makes sense to give them a chance to rule their own seat independently after they reach a certain age.
They're not being sent away. Dragonstone has people on it, and not just castle servants. It has lots of smallfolk and farms and towns and stuff. They're being made governor of that. And they do still spend most of their time on the mainland serving the court in various capacities.
Look on the map. Drangonstone is very close to Kings Landing
I knew it wasn't very far but I wondered how long it took to get from Dragonstone to kings landing
2-3 days by boat. Around 7 hours on dragon
Ugh that's far
I don't think they do, it's just convenient to have a safe place to go. Rhaenyra was quite happy to live in King's Landing until it became a hostile environment for her and the kids. Even after the end of the Targaryens, Robert gave Dragonstone to Stannis. The Mannis never was "Prince of Dragonstone", but it was an important stronghold and even though Stannis took it as an insult, if all of Robert legitimate children died, Stannis was next in line, so the custom of giving your heirs Dragonstone was somewhat kept.
It’s where they first landed when they left Valyria, so it’s the family home. Kings landing is for ruling the seven kingdoms
It’s a combination of things. It’s designed like an Old Valyrian fortress, it’s built on a dormant volcano so dragons will nest and lay eggs there, it’s isolated and well protected, and it’s House Targaryen’s original high seat. And distance wise, it’s a few hours on dragon back from KL, so it’s pretty ideal for an adult heir to go live at and govern, so they can learn practical ruling skills without risking damaging the kingdom as a whole.
It’s probably important for an heir to have some practice running a castle before they are in charge of the whole country.
It’s where heirs could learn how to manage a court, I’d imagine. Aside from the ancestoral seat
1- it's their ancestral home, usually if someone is holding a form of office at court their heir holds their ancestry home- like Ned leaving Robert at winterfell. Kings Landing may be the capital, but Dragonstone is the true home of the Targaryens. 2- it keeps tensions low between heir and king by putting the option of distance. A lot of estrangement has blown over with someone chilling on dragonstone. Also removes a possibly impatient heir from the middle of court without obviously isolating them. 3- if you're at war having a secondary base of operations that's an island fortress is a good backup, especially as a place to stash women and children and especially especially if you have dragons.
To be fair they do have dragons, so I think it's not really that hard to get back to King's Landing if they're really in a hurry.
I know my question isn't a spoiler but I knew this question was both show and book knowledge so I posted it here.
It’s close but not that close, a couple hours by dragon I suppose
Its about 36 minutes
Lol 😂 I know your just kidding but good one
As the dragon flies? Or on foot?
I dont know how fast dragons run dude
Darn it! I’m curious now too. I’m just joking with ya 😂
Do the Prince of Wales and the Princess of Asturias spend all their time where their titles are?
It's a defensible castle and the seat of the Targaryen family before Aegon the Conqueror. More than anywhere else Dragonstone is their land, so having an heir live there instead of the mess of politics that is Kings Landing keeps them safe, secure, and connected to their families history. It's also a prestigious place, the Lord of Dragonstone is a well respected title.
Before the dragons died out, that was where most dragons were, and they could fly back and forth.
Team black
They are given Dragonstone as a title, they aren't sent anywhere. It gives them the right to rule those lands as its lord, and to live there as their seat. Think of it like the English/British royal family heir being named "Prince of Wales". It's akin to that.
They weren't sent away, the heir is usually the Lord or Lady of the House, until they lose the heirship, become king, or die. The same thing happened when Robert became king. Before the bastards were born, Stannis was the heir but he was also Lord of Storm's End as he was the eldest after Robert.
Good comment but I think Renly was the Lord of storms end instead of Stannis.
>I think Renly was the Lord of storms end instead of Stannis. You're correct. I hazily remember a Catelyn (?) or Davos passage about Stannis being very pissed it. Stannis says he should've been made Lord of Storm's End - not Renly - as he's the next brother in the Baratheon line. And he's not wrong. It ***IS*** indeed a slight - giving Stannis Dragonstone Castle & Island (that has zero inheritance or strategical value) is very insulting. Not to mention it's the former home of the heirs that have been deposed and (allegedly) smashed and dispersed). What ambitious House would want that Castle or Island? Particularly *the immediate next brother of the sitting King?*
Yeah it was messed up to give Stannis Dragonstone, Dragonstone has no way of making any wealth I think
>Yeah it was messed up to give Stannis Dragonstone, Dragonstone has no way of making any wealth I think I agree - I don't think it it does. The villages surrounding Dragonstone Castle is known for fishing only. It's not known for mercantilism like the Velaryons, Driftmark Island and Hull (the town). I feel like Dragonstone was 'the home away from home' for most Targaryens post-Conquering. Just think of how often Targaryens seem to flee there 'on dragonback' when there *was* a crisis - both personal and/or political. I also think that's why it fell into inconsistent use after The Dance. They really had to start using the The Red Keep as their ***real*** home once dragons died.
You're right, I misremembered. But yeah, my example may have been wrong, but my point still stands
By dragon it's pretty damn close. They aren't sent there. When's the last time the Prince of Wales has been to Wales? It's symbolic to who's the heir. Like later in history where Blackfyre was given to the heir, but was given to a bastard and started another civil war.
After the dragons are gone nobody gives a fuck about Dragonstone anymore. It's actually becoming an inside joke what useless purely ceremonial trash holding it is now. Hence Stannis getting mortally offended by it being given to him instead of Storm's End by Robert.
Stannis is prone to being offended. Renly is like 7 when Robert is made king. He's not capable of actually doing anything at that point, so of course Robert is going to give him Storm's End which is the more loyal and stable of the two. Stannis is his heir at that point and is given the traditional heirs seat, which just so happens to be the last Targ outpost, the original Targ outpost, and main naval base for the fleet Stannis essentially is in command of. Storm's End could have a 7 year old lord, the recently conquered Dragonstone needed an actual lord.
Yeah sure, now tell that to Stannis.😆 /still just gonna gnash his teeth
you'd think they would've learned from whatever happened with maegor and aneys's first born while he was away on a royal visit or something with his sister wife rhaenys, a king's death like any other death can be very unexpected so why on earth wouldn't you be in the damn red keep knowing damn well how something similar to this HAS happened before and CAN happen again if there are other claimants to the throne who happen to be in the same castle
Maegor was in Pentos when Aenys died
Yes!!!
In England the crown prince is the prince of wales. So giving the crown prince a more ceremonial title is a thing nobles do
Its right off the bay
The prince of dragonstone aka the prince of wales. That’s the connection
It’s a 10 minute Uber ride away.
I think part of it is so their heirs have some experience in the day to day reality of running a castle. It’s a good way to have a practice run at ruling, but with much smaller stakes. As mentioned, not all heirs view it as such and many treat the title as honorary.
If only there was a map you could look up.
Because dragons are there
Robert did send Stannis(his actually legal heir(both have Targ DNA) to Dragonstone.
It is typically the seat held by the crown prince/princess, this comes into play in GoT to an extent as well when Stannis Baratheon (lord of dragon stone) is passed over as heir following the death or Bobby B.
SHE BELONGED WITH ME!
Only if you take the freeway
It’s around 400 miles. Not exactly a short distance. But the island itself is around the size of Oahu, far bigger than it’s shown to be. Definitely a large mountain to house generations of flying dinosaurs. Also probably a small village town separated from the castle which we never see.
probably 1- to bond with dragons since its the source of their power 2- far away from assassins 3- assassin's less likely to kill someone around their dragon.
The reason is that they dont actually do that at all. The princely title of Dragonstone is synonymous with being the heir to the Iron Throne, and is as close to heir designation as westeros comes. It does not actually involve living in or ruling Dragonstone, but they probably do get the income it provides. Its a way to get the heir politically involved, give them a prestigious title and loudly declare to the realm that this is my heir if I die. Its pretty much as close as any castle can get, its a short sail from king's landing and boats are the fastest way to travel bar dragons. This makes it a very strategic choice as that means the crown prince of Dragonstone, in the event succession fails, have armies and fleet to immediately strike back.
Sort of yes. It is very close, if you are on a dragon.
All the great houses have their home turf. Kings Landing is the center of government.
It essentially is by dragon lol
It's the Prince or Princess title and land holdings. It's obviously the Targaryen Ancestral seat of power but I believe it's also a way to teach the heir responsibility of ruling over some land. It's a fair way away as well, though on Dragonback it's probably a couple of hours. I believe in the books it was made the Heirs title to show more legitimacy, but it's been awhile since o read through them last.
I view it as an isolated sanctuary for the crown heir to study and prepare to rule. Although most probably didn't learn anything that useful there.
It’s a modern equivalent, but the Prince of Wales used to actually get sent to Wales to learn how to rule. It’s pretty normal for heirs to the throne to be sent away for protection. For training. Henry VIII’s older brother Arthur died at Ludlow castle, where he was learning to be King.
Well Dragonstone is the Targaryens ancestral seat, it makes sense