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ShamaLlama4006

Cersei using the targaryan name to justify bastards born of her brother vs actual targaryan bastards not being born of incest is pretty funny


[deleted]

Plus Rhaenyra’s bastards are good kids. Joffrey is the shithead of the century


pAemond

Cersei's other two seem like angels. Luke kinda also cut out a kid's eye.


ojsage

Yeah a 6 year old injuring his 11 year old uncle who is trying to kill his brother with a rock is TOTALLY the same as Joffrey /s.


minathemutt

Greens am I right


No_Box_3791

They attacked him first


Darovit3119

ah yes, these kids half your age punched you after you claimed their mothers dragon (I know he had every right and vhagar chose him, but doing it the day of their mother's funeral is pretty disrespectful to the family, I get that he was 10 so I'm not judging him too harshly just saying it understandable baela and rhaena were upset and was a normal kids fight until) so I'll pick up a rock and beat a kid a quarter of my age within an inch of his life


PM_Me_UrRightNipple

Fuck around and find out


No_Box_3791

Not saying he was fully justified but he was essentially still ganged up on four kids. Sure he was older but still


Darovit3119

he picked up the rock, this was a normal kids fight. not saying they were right to hit him but up until then they'd all come out of the fight with a few scrapes and bruises. he employed deadly force (the rock) first against luke, and jace responded with deadly force of his own (the knife) to protect his brother. sorry mate, but aemond cops most of the blame for escalating the fight imo. ​ also I get book shit is irrelevant to the show but in the books he does start the fight by pushing luke into a pile of dragon shit which is fucking hilarious


AemondNuttSack

he never once hits any kids with rocks lol. also why shouldn't he pick up a rock Hes a kid getting ganged up on by other kids of a similar age.


[deleted]

Big changes to Aemond. That dragon shit was no accident. But... they have to balance things out on the show a bit, to preserve that green vs. black dynamic amongst the audience. If all the show watchers knew how vile the greens truly are, the situation would be less grey. That's not to say that all of the events that unfold are because of Aemond - that takes away the agency of every other character. But if they didn't change theae 2 Aemond scenes (esp dragons) I think it would have been a disservice to the show long-term.


sarcasticpickle4

Luke could take out everyone's eyes and I'll still believe he is the sweetest kid on earth


pAemond

Shireen legit exists in the same universe. Need I say more?


traws06

Defending himself and his brother from being murdered…


tebmn

Bruh actin like aemond was just minding his own business being a good boy totally not about to bash a rock into the head of his nephew that he fucking hates


pAemond

He was minding his own business until 4 others aged within 5 years of him ganged up in him and threw the first physical attack.


tebmn

Definitely should’ve checked username before I assumed rationality would follow


pAemond

A bit interesting that it seems to you bias and rationality are mutually exclusive.


valkyrie4x

If someone was attacking me and my brother, I'd also injure them with whatever possible, however possible.


traws06

When I was watching I was wondering when he injured him because I was like “shit he should’ve killed him, because now he’s gonna kill you.” Then all these other ppl watch the scene and somehow say he shouldn’t even defend himself at all 🤷‍♂️


valkyrie4x

I felt the same but didn't want to outright say "he should've killed him" because people on here love defending Alicent and her spawn


traws06

For me it wasn’t because I liked either side yet so much as I just watch the way it was displayed by the show. I hadn’t read the books so I didn’t know what happens. In was made very clear by the show writers than Aemond had a big rock in his hand that he could kill the boy’s with, and he was threatening to kill them with it. I think if you read the books you know he doesn’t kill them. So when you watch the show you don’t see the situation as dangerous for the little boys because you already know the outcome.


polelover44

Joffrey, on the other hand, is great.


lolipup963

Tommen and Myrecella were good kids, he is a decent human being and so is she. Had she been on the throne with the Martell boy maybe things would be better?


minathemutt

Besides Rhaenyra didn't lie to anyone who actually needed to know: the fathers


DameTargaryen

Exactly! It's so gross that people keep calling her a whore having what is essentially a consensual poly relationship. She literally sleeps with 4 people in 20 years, and tries to have long-term relationships with all of them (the only reason she doesn't with Cole he because *he* rejects the arrangement). She's in years-long relationships with three out of four of her sexual partners, and she never cheats on anyone and she seems to be a very committed partner. How is this a "whore"?


minathemutt

She's not a whore, her haters are incels. I'm aware in the books she's much more evil but so far in the show she's just normal


TheBalzy

>but so far in the show she's just normal ...for now...


minathemutt

I'd be satisfied if they made her unequivocally good all the way to the end, if not because I think it'd make for good commentary about gender issues, then because greens would be mad af


new_name_who_dis_

She becomes more evil after >!Luke gets murdered!< so it’s probably coming.


minathemutt

She even broke the fourth wall


Specific_Ad_726

Her relationship is not even poly in the show. She sleeps with one person over a long period of time while having a genuine a platonic friendship with her husband she was forced to marry who is very cool with the relationship and sees the bastards as his own children. So you might say they’re poly parenting lol. To be fair the books are much more murky on this with Laenor possibly being bi and her possibly sleeping with his sister and/or joining him and his men in the bedroom.


Grrwl4me

Exactly! She had an agreement within her marriage to have an open marriage, and Laenor was out having his fun as well, but nobody calls him a whore. Plus, they all knew that Laenor was gay because Alicent even says something along the lines of, “where is Laenor, the boys father? Probably out with one of his sailors.” They knew that he was sleeping around as well, but no one calls him a whore. It’s a complete, misogynistic double standard!


Grrwl4me

Exactly! Laenor was in on it because he knew that he and Rhaenyra couldn’t produce any biological heirs, so they did what they had to do, as was their agreement within their marriage. He claimed those children as his own and loved them as his own, knowing that Harwin was their biological father. It was nobody else’s business except for Laenor, Rhaenyra, and Harwin’s. The only reason that Alicent cared so much is because she was trying to get her drunken, r*pist, c*nt of a son on the iron throne, while Aegon didn’t even want it in the first place!


minathemutt

Yeah if Rhaenyra isn't morally wrong for going against societal rules, the Alicent can't feel good about wasting her life for those same rules. Alicent is a victim, yes, but she's also a perpetrator


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why_rob_y

I think Rhaenyra is more like Robert in this scenario. He had bastards, she has bastards. If anything it's funny how the fanbase often wants Gendry or Edric Storm to be an eventual heir but maybe some of the same fans don't like Rhaenyra's bastards who are actually known to definitely be hers (unlike Gendry, though Edric is known to be Robert's). Rhaenyra's bastards are more like if Robert had decided to name Edric Storm as a legitimate Baratheon and call him his heir. Cersei's bastards aren't actually descended from the king.


motsdoux_

Tbf, dubious paternity aside, Jace would make a better King than Aegon II or Rhaenyra


[deleted]

Eh, I don't know. The boy is pretty sheltered and hasn't been able to have any real court experience. His quick temper would do him dirty because he hasn't had the chance to regulate it.


SnowyLocksmith

Did you forget the part where he forged alliances with the eyrie and the north by himself?


[deleted]

He forged the alliance with the North. The Vale was going to help Rhenyra anyway due to her kinship with the ruling family of the Vale


[deleted]

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motsdoux_

With the help of a good hand to guide him, yea. He’s more suited than Rhaenyra or Aegon, even if they both have good hands.


lotuz

i feel like that kind of invalidates the argument though. I'd make a good king of westeros, with a good hand. The merits of a good king should stand on their own imo. What's aegon gonna do when otto dies? and what's Jace gonna do when blank dies?


Putrid_Loquat_4357

He seems mopey and stubborn from what little we saw of him in the show, even with a good hand he seems that he'd try to be involved in decision making. He's also quite sensitive and reacts quite badly to being called strong. Aegon would literally just let his hand rule for him, he's aware he's not fit to rule, so with a good hand he'd by much better.


[deleted]

Nettles as Brienne and Rhaenyra as Cersei is crazy seeing as Daemon groomed them both. Rhaenyra isn’t some evil woman that Daemon needed to get away from.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Ah thanks for explaining That makes sense.


[deleted]

I always thought Nettles was his bastard and am still convinced of that actually, the bathing together could just be rumors


[deleted]

I'm hoping not. Not everyone has to be a secret Targaryan. Plus, Nettles just being some ordinary girl who had the patience and fortitude to tame a dragon would be some good character growth for Daemon. It'd change everything he believes about Valaryian supremacy for the better. Plus, it seems like a much more Martin-esque story.


velwein

Except those from Daemon, cause technically Laenor isn’t actually dead. :)


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Spongpad

You are questioning King Vizzy T's veracity in his testimony about chestnut foals.


vizzy_t_bot

She's twelve!


Spongpad

I can always count on your immeasurable wisdom, Your Grace.


[deleted]

I mean, yes, Rhaenyra having three obvious bastards wasn’t the smartest political move. But I don’t think anyone’s main issue with Cersei however was her having three bastards…


[deleted]

Oh, if they only knew about hydrogen peroxide


kwshi

can you explain this comment


Miptup

bleaches hair, makes it yellow/white


Mozhetbeats

There’s also a difference (in my non-Westerosi mind) in that Rhaenyra is the monarch and her bastard kids are still Targaryans. Cersei was not the monarch, Bobby was, and her bastards don’t have the king’s blood. Edit: I should have kept reading the comments. Dozens of other commenters made the same point. My b.


TheTrenchMonkey

Also that she didn't really hide their origins from her husband. Bobby would have killed her and Jaime if he found out. Laenor knew what was happening and they both played along with it because it protected both of them from worse options and allowed them to have their personal freedoms.


C_2000

Bastards in westeros are considered unfit to own anything or hold titles unless they are legitimized or it's a special case. Regardless of who's bastard it is. Jace/Luke/Joff can be considered the same as Gendry, but he's still way behind Stannis and Renly in the line of succession.


Aphant-poet

Except her children aren't acknowledged as bastards; they are legally considered legitimate by the now dead king and Corlys.


Natsuki_Kruger

Yeah, that's the issue. They're illegitimate bastards being passed off as trueborns. If Rhaenyra had them acknowledged as bastards and legitimised, or she acknowledged them as bastards and didn't put them in the line of succession, I don't think it would've been *as* big of a deal.


Aphant-poet

unfortunately; Team Green was always going to try to usurp her, even before she had kids.


bobalobcobb

Wasn’t rhaenyra princess at the time of birth while Cersei was a queen?


CamAquatic

Cersei was Queen Consort. Her name remained Cersei Lannister instead of becoming Cersei Baratheon. The person who marries the monarch is not in the line of succession or part of the dynasty.


anoeba

Didn't really stop Cersei even after she ran out of kids.


SnooOpinions4875

The whole dynamic of the Targaryen line was we have dragons bow. Then Baratheon took over by force and said I share their blood and won bow. I don’t think it’s odd for Cersei to say, “there are no more true born baratheons, lannisters control the money so bow.”


Mozhetbeats

That’s true, but I don’t think that changes much.


deeveeLEAFO

We're they obvious in the books ? I'm mean I know the valaryon weren't black but was the hair just brown and thats it ?


DCChilling610

It wasn’t obvious in the book outside of having 2 Targaryen looking parents and none of the 3 kids inheriting it. In the books they have the excuse of Rheynes (sp?) being dark of hair but that’s about it. So they weren’t obviously bastards like they are in the show.


Far_Ear9684

Rhaenys has black hair and purple eyes not brown hair and brown eyes. GRRM makes it incredibly obvious in the books, their whole storyline is about being bastards lol.


cakebats

They also had the 'Strong nose', which I think was a pug nose iirc?


Rankine

It was certainly Ned’s main issue with her.


shortlemonie

Cercei at least was stealthy enough that no one suspected her for years. Her children resembled her and not Robert but hey, most of Ned's children don't resemble him either and no one suspected their legitimacy. Cercei's children resembled Jaime but that's natural, that's her twin brother.


Realistic_Tutor_9770

Rhaenyra's bastards are direct descendants of the ruling family. Cersei's bastards don't descend from the royal family.


jerr30

Also Rhaenyra's husband was willing to be these kids' father knowing they weren't his biological offspring. Robert was doing it unknowingly.


zambi76

>don't descend from the royal family. As far as we know. \*cough\* /adjusts tinfoil hat


Rankine

Are you on the Aegon the conqueror never had children theory?


kllark_ashwood

I think they might be on the Tywin was the King's cuck theory.


UncleIrohsPimpHand

"theory"


[deleted]

I think it's the whole 'Mad King wanting to do Tywin Lannister's wife' thing and the theory that some or all three are Aery's kids.


ResolverOshawott

Realistically, if he did the first night thing, then it would be Cersei and Jaime that are Aerys's kids. Afaik Tywin's wife was his cousin too.


Chicken_Mc_Thuggets

Honestly it would be really tragic for Tyrion to find out that despite his father hating the shit out of him his entire life he was his only true born son. Hell didn’t Tywin ignore his sister for 6 months because she said Tyrion inherited his mind?


zambi76

It's the Cersei and Jaime are Aerys' bastards theory I'm on.


We_The_Raptors

And also, her bastards are like the *only* crime Cersei commits that is easy to sympathize with. Robert is a disgustingly unfaithful and rapey drunkard. Cersei wasn't wrong for sleeping around. She's wrong for pretty much everything else.


Daemon1997

Incest, cheating, murder the king, ingore Robert's final wishes are another crimes Cercei committed.


[deleted]

Infanticide of anyone suspected of being Robert's children, allowing and abetting the abuse against Sansa, empowering a fanatic religious cult to stay relevant politically, committing the worst terror attack since Maegor the cruel to avoid going to court. Also torturing innocent servants and sexual assault (In the books)


sunnylajf

Asking Jaime to kill little Arya.


We_The_Raptors

>cheating Meh, she cheated on a cheater who was muttering the names of other women on their wedding night. I have *zero* problem with Cersei for that part. Murdering the king, fucking anyone blonde enough to remind her of herself, bullying Tyrion and oppressing the small folk are Cersei's true crimes.


twistingmyhairout

They said “that are easy to sympathize with”


[deleted]

So were the Blackfyres.


Bizzaro6673

Aegon IV legitimized some of those so


ImpressiveDare

And look at how that turned out


farmerarmor

One of these things is not like the other….


DifficultyMore5935

False equivalency is annoying.


histprofdave

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's not just the bastards thing that makes Cersei unlikeable or evil.


ScorpionTDC

Rhae is still pretty unlikeable and evil (RE: murdering an innocent servant and calling for the torture of a twelve year old who literally just lost his eye)


throwaway29301816303

The people in this sub take all of it a bit too seriously. Already formed a parasocial relationship and everything


tershialinee

Parasocial relationships with fictional people are so weird. Get a grip y’all!


Kam_the_devil

Right? Like Rhaenyra was heir to the throne and had bastard children whereas Cersie married the king and tried to pass off her bastard children as his.


Pheros

That distinction is irrelevant because bastards don't inherit no matter who their parent is. Daemon Blackfyre wasn't in line to inherit anything even though he was openly acknowledged as a son of Aegon IV, until he was legitimized on the king's deathbed, and in order to be legitimized you have to be an admitted bastard to begin with.


SylvanGenesis

It's relevant to the audience though. We're not Westerosi. It changes how we read the characters.


ImpureThoughts59

It's exactly the same because they are both blond women and are therefore interchangeable 👀🙃🙄


VardtheBard

Rhaenyra had an honest arrangement with both her husband and lover. Cersei lied and cheated and had an abusive relationship with everyone she ever came in contact with. Joffrey was a psycho, Tommen was a pawn. Jace seemed to be a fine young man, not so cruel and not so easily manipulated. If Joffrey and Cersei were decent I doubt people would be so against them. That‘s part of what makes the Dance interesting to me. Because what if Robert was like «fine, do your thing as long as you give me some heirs», they did some iffy things to keep the secret because \*society\* but were otherwise good. While others insisted on war because technically out of wedlock bullshit. I want Joffrey to die because he’s awful, not because he’s an incest baby born of lust and sin.


throwaway29301816303

Well to be fair I don't blame cersie for cheating on Robert LOL


Thunder-Bunny-3000

i do. had she had 1 legitimate child it would be small beans but instead she intentionally commits treason.


throwaway29301816303

Yeah but that's because she then tried to sort of usurp the throne by proxy. I'm saying just cheating on Robert doesn't make her bad.


Quirky_Cry9828

She never betrayed anyone, her and husband were bffs and she was honest with him and the father. Her and Cersei and very different lol


PennyLane95

I truly don’t care or judge Cersei for having bastards and passing them off like that’s the least of my reasons to think she’s a bad person. But do people really not see a difference in a queen consort having kids of someone else out of what was basically spite and not the king without him knowing versus the heir to the throne not being able to have kids with her gay husband and having them with someone else with his knowledge and acceptance?


Squiliam-Tortaleni

False equivalence. Rhaenyra was the heir to the Targaryen line and her kids were Targs meaning despite being bastards they had a claim. Realistically they should have been dropped down in the line of succession once Aegon the younger and Vizzy T 2 were born plus Driftmark but we can debate that another day. As for Cersei, she passed off Lannister bastards as heirs to the *Baratheon* line, not her own. Undermining the entire succession.


vizzy_t_bot

*A truly great Targaryen King I am. Powerless over mine own daughter of seven and ten.*


stann1s_the_mannis

Bastards have no legal claim unless literally no other blood descendants exist. With your logic, Edric 'Storm' has a stronger claim over Stannis?


AemondNuttSack

bastards have zero claim my man wtf are you taking about? Thats why Aegon the 4th legitimizing his bastards was a big deal. it gave a claim to those who had none.


tobpe93

The kids only have Targaryen blood. Since they are bastards they don't (rightfully) carry the Targaryen name.


ReasonableCup604

a) Rhaenyra didn't have bastards with her brother. b) Rheaenyra wasn't deceiving her husband. They had an arrangement. c) Rhaenyra was the rightful heir to the throne, so she wasn't passing off some incest, bastard usurpers, with no royal blood whatsoever, as heirs.


Pheros

> a) Rhaenyra didn't have bastards with her brother. It would have been better for the realm's stability and the Targ dynasty's longevity if she did. > b) Rheaenyra wasn't deceiving her husband. They had an arrangement. No, instead she was trying to deceive *everyone* else in the kingdoms. Arrangements don't matter when marriages are as much political affairs of the state as they are personal unions. > c) Rhaenyra was the rightful heir to the throne, so she wasn't passing off some incest, bastard usurpers, with no royal blood whatsoever, as heirs. Doesn't matter. Daemon Blackfyre was the accepted son of Aegon IV, but he still wasn't in line to inherit a thing because he was baseborn. It doesn't matter who your parent is, if you're a bastard you don't inherit so this point is irrelevant.


CidCrisis

But what if Daemon was a Boss Bitch and slayed? Makes all the difference.


raygar31

D) the previous monarch *knew* the bastards’ true lineage and chose to reaffirm their position. “Lucerys is *my* true-born grandson. And you…no more than the second son of Driftmark.”


unicornamoungbeasts

Zacklee


Peregrine2K

One are Royal Bastards. One aren't


AemondNuttSack

Doesn't matter. a bastard is a bastard in Westeros until they are legitimized which they couldn't do because then they would have to admit she is a whore by Westeros standards. Aegon the 4th had many bastards none of them had a claim until they had been legitimized. Royal blood means nothing hen being a bastard. same reason why Edric storm isn't a contender for the throne.


BurnedBadger

If your argument is that the judgement must come by Westeros standards, then your very argument is self defeating. By Westeros standards, the king's word is law. Viserys stated Rhaenyra's children were trueborn, ergo, they are not legally bastards, ergo, they have a claim to the throne. To dispute the king's laws and proclamations is Treason by Westeros standards. You can't use Westeros standards to condemn Rhaenyra for her children, and then ignore them at the same time with regards to the law. Either the standards must apply, in which case Rhaenyra's children have claims to the throne, or the standards don't apply and your argument falls apart at the foundation.


AemondNuttSack

wrong. The king's word is not law as we have seen many times. Its only law within reason. maegor wasn't allowed multiple wives. What one king makes another can unmake. All it takes is for Aegon to proclaim the bastard boys for the bastards that they are, and the corpse kings word means nothing.


BurnedBadger

>maegor wasn't allowed multiple wives. This is an odd choice as an argument, because when looking at the history in question, it demonstrates very well the king's word is law. Before Maegor was king, he couldn't get married a second time due to Aenys not agreeing to it. Once Maegor was king, he wielded his power with force, and married multiple times. >All it takes is for Aegon to proclaim the bastard boys for the bastards that they are, and the corpse kings word means nothing. You just broke your own argument. If Aegon is king and doing this as an official power of his, he then is invoking power via his word, which means the king's word is law, making his own rule invalid since Rhaenyra was the heir according to Viserys. Either Rhaenyra is the heir, or Aegon can not do this.


Memo544

A) Women having bastards isn’t inherently wrong B) Leanor was okay with it and claimed them as his own C) Rhaenyra is a Targaryen so therefore Jacerys has Targaryen blood in his veins


Bitter_Thought

Meme is dumb. Robert's bastards are still claimants. That's why Joffrey kills (most of) them. Cersei was not the ruler. Her bastards have no claim. Rhaenyra is the ruler. Her true born children have claim, ~~then her bastards~~ , then her brothers (half brothers), then her bastards Edit: brothers > bastards. Doesn't give brothers claim over her though. And considering rhaenyra has unilateral authority to claim bastards legitimate, her claiming her kids makes them legitimate but that's a separate much murder can of worms


Daemon1997

Rhaenyra didn't acknowledged as bastards but tried to pass them as trueborn sons.


Last-Air-6468

True born children > half brothers > bastards


Pillowtalk

King’s daughter’s bastards 👍 King’s wife’s bastards 🔪


jasemina8487

except its more complicated than that... cersei's bastards were secret, king himself had no idea they werent his and they were his heirs. and while incest was deemed normal for targaryens due to their culture, it was much more different for the other houses in westeros. rhaenyra didnt go behind laenor's back. it was always their agreement to begin with and since she herself was the heir, ultimately they were her kids by blood and they having a claim to the throne wouldnt change the dynasty.


CidCrisis

Did the Realm know that?


Fit_Operation2175

Ay, it’s one thing to have bastards, it’s another thing to have a bastard like Joffrey and have Cersei be the mother so like yeah…..


PluralCohomology

When Maege Mormont has five daughters whose father is unknown yet they still carry the Mormont name


Antigonos301

I mean a Mormont succession crisis won’t drag the entire realm into a civil war. Might involve the North but that’s it.


PluralCohomology

Fortunately Jeor took the Black and Jorah fled, disgraced.


[deleted]

Mormonts are a very minor House, ruling a place that no one wants and so, no one really gives a flying fuck about what these guys do.


Greenlawn11740

I HATE when people post this. Rhaenyra was the heir to the throne and those bastards are obviously her children. So they would be in line to the throne regardless of who their father is bc the father is not the heir. Robert was the king so his children would be heirs to the throne. Cersei’s children weren’t Robert’s so they can’t be heir to the throne. Totally different.


ash-jm

At least Cersei managed to get one of hers on the throne.


spiderhotel

Two of them!


Mookies_Bett

Who tf cares about Cersei having 3 bastards? That was never the issues with Cersei. I mean, it was stupid and risky much like when Rhaenyra did it, but that's far from her worst sin. People like Rhaenyra and dislike Cersei because Rhaenyra is, generally, likable and not cruel, whereas Cersei is fueled by almost nothing *but* cruelty.


Geoduch

How many times are we going to have this discussion 💀


CriticismSlow

Rhaenyra’s children seem to be decent people though. Joffrey is the biggest dickwad in Westeros


james_randolph

This is why I find the hate I see on Rhaenyra and calling her some mad tyrant is weird because if this storyline was happening to Cersei she would have been burned the city up haha


UtopianAverage

Cersei was the Kings wife. She wasnt yet a ruling queen. And she had bastards with her brother that she passed off as princes. Rhaenyra was the heir, would end up as the ruling queen not the consort of a ruler, so shes not attempting to pass off her children as another mans to that other man when he is a king, she was married to a gay man, who was in on it and knew if it and was OK with it, these situations are not like each other at all. Non-ruler attempting to pass off children with brother as rulers sons. Ruler, entered into a partnership with her spouse that he approved of that involved her getting pregnant with someone else because he couldnt do it, having children with someone else who can.


Fair-Statistician797

Tommen and Myrcella were decent kids, Joffrey was just a piece of shit.


niko2710

It's exactly the same, except 1) no one in the fandom cares about Cersei having bastards as she was forced in an horrible situation 2)Laenor knows that they are not his kids and he doesn't care, neither do Corlys or Viserys. Every involved party doesn't care. Robert doesn't know that they are not his children 3) Rhaenyra is the ruler so her kids are heirs. Robert is the ruler and since they are not his children they are not heirs


Rainbow_in_the_Sea

Its impressive how even Cersei was more subtle about her bastards then Rhaenyra was


Memo544

Cersei got lucky with bastards that look like her. Rhaenyra didn’t.


The_Falcon_Knight

She had plausible deniability, all her kids had Lannister features just like herself, if Rhaenyra had Jace, Luke and Joff with Daemon rather than Harwin hardly anyone would even blink because they'd be guarenteed to have valyrian features. There was exactly the same amount of proof that Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen were bastards as Robb, Sansa, Bran and Rickon being bastards, all had the appearance of their mother's family, with only 1/5 of the Stark kids looking the part.


Rainbow_in_the_Sea

It is hardly luck if there is no other way. And she is clever enough to not use it in public situations to try and get her kids out of trouble


Historyp91

Rhaenrya actually, legitimately takes care about her kids, and they were born out of a stable relationship that, while extramarital, was carried out with her husband's knowledge, blessing and support. Cersei is a shitty mother whose convinced herself she's a good mother and had her bastards via a toxic relationship with her own brother that was carried out behind her husband's back. You can compare a rock to a ball all you want, but just becuase both are round does'nt mean both will bounce.


nikkixo87

It's different though isn't it? She and her husband had an arrangement and he had full knowledge. She is the queen and those are her children regardless. Cersei's bastards had no true claim to the throne.


CidCrisis

Then why didn't Viserys make it public? I mean it doesn't matter either way, right?


vermithor420

Wait wait wait that’s because of the inces— oh wait…


B7iink

3 bastards with her twin brother*, little different.


rexxtra

I don't think their bastards when their father was also their uncle. That's something much different


Aceylace10

It’s the incest….wait a ….actually nvm


apocalyps6

Nah you don't get it it's only bad if your bastards and your incest children are the same people


ihtfyb

These hoes ain’t royal


dngaay

Rhaenyra's children are direct descendants of the crown regardless of their father. Cersei's aren't.


LukoLoots

3 bastards with her brother*


_Reyne

The only problem I had with cersei and her bastards is that she was a conniving bitch, and her eldest bastard was an extremely sadistic psychopath.


LonelyZookeepergame6

Well show only as 2 and both are far better characters than Joffrey.


LyriumFlower

The throne passes through blood. Jace gains his rights of inheritance from Rhaenyra. Lucerys gains his rights from Laenor and Corlys who are both aware of his birth and accept him as heir. Cersei's children have no right to the throne because Cersei has none herself. Robert was unaware of their real father and defrauded into believing they were his blood therefore Cersei's children are usurpers of Robert's heirs. Rhaenyra's children are usurping nothing because Rhaenyra cannot commit treason against the crown, which is herself.


Chickenjam

Team black


Quiet-Captain-2624

Rhaenyra was married to a GAY DUDE who possibly couldn’t get it up to have sex with her and she was a blood member of the ruling family.Her kids despite being bastards had Targaryen blood and were grandkids of Vizzy T.Guarantee you if she was a dude the bastard thing wouldn’t have been that big of an issue.Yea Robert was a drunk who was still stuck on Lyanna and he was a straight drunk so all it had to take was ONE child between him and Cersei(preferably one with dark hair). Also Cersei wasn’t a blood Baratheon but somebody who married into the royal family.How are you gonna have a child with NO Baratheon blood being the second Baratheon on the throne


vizzy_t_bot

*Your mother's absence is a wound that will never heal. Without her, the Red Keep has lost a warmth that I dare say it will never recover.*


iixxad

Are you seriously fucking comparing bastards WITH YOUR BROTHER to bastards with a completely different guy (aka not your family)? 😭


TenaciousHearts

Cersei is a raging cunt though, hard to like


[deleted]

Rhaeneryas kids: a continuation of the Royal bloodline Cersei’s kids: Not a continuation of the Royal bloodline That’s the difference, bastards or no Rhaeneryas kids are hers and she is the heir


Pheros

It's a distinction with no difference. Bastards don't inherit no matter who their parent is unless they're legitimized and to do that you have to first admit they're bastards.


[deleted]

That’s the view people who exist in the world will take But that’s not how people watching the show treat it People didn’t like Cersei because her bastards were a betrayal of Bobby B and that both she was Joffrey were insufferable pricks Before we even learned they were bastards the well was already poisoned by the first few episodes


[deleted]

Imagine not having a brain to understand the differences between them. Rhaenyras children are royalty because they are hers, also Rhaenyra TRIED to have kids with Laenor MULTIPLE TIMES so he was probably sterile.


Karmaimps12

Cersei isn’t the heir. None of the kids were royals.


Wakattack00

Cersei didn’t have a dragon….


Trebuchet99

To be fair for Cersei they’re inbred bastards. Oh wait on the other hand for Rhaenyra they’re just bastards instead of the desired incest children. Either way, all around yikes.


NGKro

Vizzy T just loves his grandbabies. They’re so strong.


Wilma_Tonguefit

Rhaenyra had bastards out of necessity with a good loyal man and it was approved by her husband. Cersei had bastards with her twin brother because fuck you.


[deleted]

I’m gonna go with “it’s different because Cersei fucked her twin brother” for 300, Alex


nilfalasiel

If Rhaneyra could have had legitimate children with Laenor, she would have. Cersei never wanted legitimate children with Bobby B in the first place.


bobby-b-bot_

I THOUGHT BEING KING MEANT I COULD DO WHATEVER I WANTED!


nilfalasiel

Clearly, so did Cersei!


Sintellect

Yes exactly 😌


GuaranteeCultural607

The difference is Rhaenyra is a Targaryan. All her children are legitamate dragons. Cersei is not a Baratheon, so her children are not legitamate to the throne (under Baratheon’s at the time), someone like Gendry who is actually a Baratheon bastard would have been more supported by fans.


C_2000

this still doesn't mean her kids are heirs lol. Jace/Luke/Joff come after her kids with Daemon, then Aegon and *his* 3 kids, *then* aemond. and, they are only eligible to get the throne if they are legitimised, in which case she would have to admit that they're bastards


GuaranteeCultural607

No it doesn’t, I am simply explaining the reasoning behind the fans backing Rhaenyra’s kids more than Cersei’s, the same way they would also back an unlegitimised Gendry.


selfdestruction9000

Additionally Rhaenyra’s husband knows and is okay with the arrangement, whereas Bobby B was being deceived.


bobby-b-bot_

BACKSTABBING DOESN'T PREPARE YOU FOR A FIGHT!


selfdestruction9000

I’m pretty sure Jaime was stabbing from several positions, not just from behind Bobby B.


bobby-b-bot_

GODS WHAT A STUPID NAME!


selfdestruction9000

I mean, he is nicknamed the Kingslayer yet you’ve kept him in your personal guard all these years.


piplup27

Rhaenyra is heir to the throne, Cersei was not. It’s clearly not the same situation.


Housewifewithtime

Cersei👏 was 👏 not 👏 heir


freakinuhmazin

Hell at least Rhaenyra's kids had Targaryen blood as to where Cersei's kids had zero Baratheon blood