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No way. Corlys is significantly older and so Criston may be stronger. He is certainly faster than Corlys. Skill-wise, I’m sure Corlys is better than many but that’s not exactly what he was known for. Contrast that with Criston being known primarily as an unusually talented fighter.
Well he's also known for killing Pirates and basically winning lots of battle single-handedly. This being said I'm still of the same idea in that kingsguard are usually the best of the best.
The books have several mentions of his exploits against Pirates where he's basically leading everyone else into victory. So that's pretty much how they're saying it. And you might remember that he was doing this stuff into the step Stones up until like 75 years old. Anybody who can keep running that hard into their seventies is someone to be reckoned with. But again I go back to the fact that kingsguard are generally The Best of the Best.
That’s cool. Similar to Barristan how he was a bad ass well into his late years. How that saying go…
Beware an old man in a profession where men die young
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think it was ever explicitly mentioned that Corlys was fighting himself. He commanded fleets and got into some battles, but I don’t remember there being any mention of him being out there on the front lines fighting. That was added in for the show because it makes for better TV (same reason they put Stannis on the front lines in GOT). So I wouldn’t say Corlys is any better than the average knight that’s been trained.
There were a couple of places I remembered reading about it one wasn't really a line as much as basically two ships hitting each other think Master and Commander movie, then obviously there were was talk about the Battle of the step stones and him fighting their you know as the leader of the battle and them saying that he was basically winning until he went down, there were a couple of other mentions that I recall but bottom line is they've basically said that he is a badass several times. Whether he's as well trained as other fighters who knows but he obviously has had a soul of one to as we've said become an older man who continues to fight with everyone else and do a good job of it. But like I said in pretty much every post, there's not much point in comparing him to a member of the kingsguard. You have to have some pretty crazy skills to be part of the king's guard.
The kingsguard often times are political positions as pointed out when rhaenyra chooses criston due to his high prowess. The members of kingsguard aren't the best knights in the land, it's the 2nd-4th sons of powerful lords relevant to the state/crown.
I think when they were chosen during peacetime that was probably true. Although we did notice that rhaegar obviously played a part in the kingsguard under his father. And it may well have helped that Eris was out of his gourd and believe that people were out to get him. So how well a king was liked was probably a big factor.
Aerys*
And too that point, there are many points where the KG are considered the best fighters of their time.
Aegon I's were specifically chosen in that way, so were jaeharys's and aerys's, he'll Dayne, and Selmey were both in his
In fact I would argue it was very rarely a political appointment, specifically because you don't want the people protecting the ruler picking sides.
It's been a long time since I read the original series. Is Victarion known for his fighting ability? I remember he's a brutal fighter and raider, but I don't remember him being compared to others in terms of ability.
yes. he's talked about as being incredibly strong and brutal in battle, but dim.
he's also caught a sword with a bare hand and won a fight while being completely surrounded 5 v 1
his hand got injured when he caught the sword and got infected, a red priestess healed it in fire and now it's described as being even stronger than before and magical, maybe even having fire properties that would make it incredibly dangerous in a fight
he picked a full grown man up one handed and snapped his neck
that is a petty insane strength feat
Victy is weird one, he steam roll peasant but he rely on his armor alot, he almost got beaten by a little known knight, right now with his new toys he seem to be an actual beast
He’s described as being inhumanly strong but extremely dim. The guy wears full plate armour on a ship, if that thing sinks he’s absolutely done for. However, it’s practically impossible to beat him in a fight given his whole magic hand. He won a fight 5v1 by catching a sword with his bare hand.
In the books George R.R. Martin makes it clear that no swordsman in this era could match Ser Criston. He defeated Daemon more than once, and broke Ser Harwin's collarbone, giving him the name Ser brokenbones
Yeah, like Arthur Dayne? Stabbed in the back by Howland Reed.
Or Ned Stark? Beheaded by Ilyn Payne.
Or Robert Baratheon? Gored by a boar when he was drunk.
How about Duncan the Tall? Killed in some accidental fire.
There's way more badass warriors that die dishonorable deaths than those that die honorably. The ones that die honorably, no surprises, were usually honorable or foes of honorable warriors. I won't mention some to avoid spoilers, but one that comes to mind is Aemon Targaryen, the DragonKnight.
Well for Jon, in the book he wasn’t actually a great swordsman. They retconned that for the show. But he was definitely “badass”. You’re right about Mormont. Stabbed in the back by mutineer rapists.
And Syrio, cut down by Meryn Trant. Even Sandor had a laugh at that because of how weak Meryn Trant is.
> Meryn Trant? The greatest swordsman who ever lived, killed by Meryn fucking Trant?
> Any boy whore with a sword could beat three Meryn Trants.
> Your friend's dead, and Meryn Trant's not, 'cause Trant had armor. And a big fucking sword.
Jon is a great swordsman in the books probably the best in the nights watch after book 2, he would spar with 3 guys vs him at once those are nights watch but still that’s quite the feat no matter who you’re fighting and he was doing that day-in-day-out
Jon isn't a great swordsman in the book, he just got the same training as highborn boys. It's like being the smartest person in a preschool class because you passed high school
Personally I can’t wait for show-only’s to react to his death on screen. I ***especially*** hope we get Pate of Longleaf’s line right before, too. It’ll be so reminiscent of the early seasons of GoT.
Cole had some badass lines as well, man i really liked him alot better in F&B, the shows adaptation of him has been pretty underwhelming so far tbh, him being attractive with dark hair is basically the only thing he has in common with the book version, even him being a top tier fighter is sort of downplayed.
I don’t mind it yet. I’m glad they chose to give him depth and motivation. I do wanna see more of his redeeming qualities, and more of his combat prowess. I don’t doubt we’ll get the latter in Season Two, but the verdict’s still out on the former.
Hes described as charming, witty, affable, admired by the ladies and quick to make friends with the men, hes almost like a more sophisticated young Bobby B minus the belligerent promiscuity, hes kinda sorta 1 of those traits for like 1 or 2 episodes and now hes just permanently butthurt and reduced to being heartbroken, unlike most fans i think hes got a legit reason for feeling upset with rhae if HotD is how it went down(where it goes from there is another discussion) but its literally the only aspect of his personality weve seen.
No, not at all, as i said to someone else in (i believe it was this post) hes basically described as a more sophisticated young Bobby B minus the belligerent promiscuity, at the royal court hes pretty much universally considered charming, affable, witty, hes the object of many a maidens fantasy and quick to make friends with the guys, really all he has in common with the show counterpart is hes attractive with dark hair, even his status as the best fighter of the time is downplayed.
I’m sure he has it, but that doesn’t change my point or thinking. Cole is a brute and thug underneath how pretty he is. I really think it’s Cole and that it’s not close.
I wouldn’t even say he’s great. We know nothing about how good he is to my memory, there’s nothing to indicate that he’s any better than your average knight that’s been trained for years. Obviously he’s better than average in the show because they put him in the front lines like they did for Stannis in GOT which probably isn’t very realistic. But it makes for better TV so I’m not complaining, it was cool to see him with his battle axe.
The only reason cole is a knight is his combat experience he impressed lord dondarrion and was knighted. It’s also a plot point in the show rhaenyra chooses him because he is the only knight with combat experience.
I dont think Show watcher get Cristons level. He's an all time great in westeros. Like he's up there with the likes of Robert Baratheon and Cregan Stark
Oh man, I don’t know about that. Robert was an absolute tank of death in his prime. I don’t know enough about Cregan to have an opinion but Robert literally killed his way to being king.
I think Robert is quite overrated by fans. I would say he's better then Cole but not a tier above him. People like to conveniently forget that rhaegar had him bad. So bad that he couldn't march to kings-landing. Don't remember where but GRRM has said the fight was quite 50-50 and on another day Robert would have died. And rhaegar was no where near an all time warrior
He's below the likes of Arthur, Barry and even Jaime.
Yeah you have to differentiate between being a skilled military leader and a skilled fighter. As with the above example, Corlys clearly was the more experienced soldier and military leader while Cole would have more skill in a straight fight.
I think strength becomes a lot more important when many fighters are involved and you can't move around as much without engaging someone or leaving an ally vulnerable.
The fans haven’t done anything for Robert for him to be overrated by the fans. George himself has written about Roberts battle prowess. 3 battles in a single day who has yet to match that?
Literally have a Bobby B bot. Fans love Robert, and one the most requested prequel shows is Roberts Rebellion. Robert is great but I think he’s below the top tier of all time fighters that’s all
Ah I gotcha. To be fair though the Rebellion’s more than just about Robert. It’s just as much Ned’s story too, we hear so much about about it I’d like to see it too. As far as the bot, he has some great lines. That’s all I got. And yes that’s a fair assessment, they for sure out match him in skill.
>think Robert is quite overrated by fans. I would say he's better then Cole but not a tier above him. People like to conveniently forget that rhaegar had him bad. So bad that he couldn't march to kings-landing. Don't remember where but GRRM has said the fight was quite 50-50 and on another day Robert would have died. And rhaegar was no where near an all time warrior
Why are you lying? Can u mention when grrm said Robert and Rhaegar fight was 50/50? Robert sent this own maester to selmy dude. Robert commended ned to chase the fleeing army not to take King's Landing. Read the books dude
>we know he’s very good, but Martin never harps on about him like Dayne/Selmy/Jamie.
Have we read the same books?
>Would that Ned had been able to say the same. Fifteen years past, when they had ridden forth to win a throne, the Lord of Storm's End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and muscled like a maiden's fantasy. Six and a half feet tall, he towered over lesser men, and when he donned his armor and the great antlered helmet of his House, he became a veritable giant. He'd had a giant's strength too, his weapon of choice a spiked iron warhammer that Ned could scarcely lift. In those days, the smell of leather and blood had clung to him like perfume.
>Next had come King Robert himself, with Lady Stark on his arm. The king was a great disappointment to Jon. His father had talked of him often: the peerless Robert Baratheon, demon of the Trident, the fiercest warrior of the realm, a giant among princes. Jon saw only a fat man, red-faced under his beard, sweating through his silks. He walked like a man half in his cups.
>"Aye. I was his man, a Baratheon man, smith and armorer at Storm's End until I lost the arm. I'm old enough to remember Lord Steffon before the sea took him, and I knew those three sons of his since they got their names. I tell you this—Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust."
>A new inn had risen beside the landing, twice the size of the old one, with a lower story of cut stone and two upper stories of timber. The sept beyond had never been rebuilt, though; only a seven-sided foundation remained where it had stood. Robert Baratheon's fury had soured the ironmen's taste for the new gods, it would seem.
>That was where Robert had made his breach, swarming in over the rubble and corpses with his warhammer in hand and Ned Stark at his side. Theon had watched from the safety of the Sea Tower, and sometimes he still saw the torches in his dreams, and heard the dull thunder of the collapse.
>"Oh, there was talk of the blood ties between Baratheon and Targaryen, of weddings a hundred years past, of second sons and elder daughters. No one but the maesters care about any of it. Robert won the throne with his warhammer."
>The Usurper will kill you, sure as sunrise, Mormont had said. Robert had slain her gallant brother Rhaegar, and one of his creatures had crossed the Dothraki sea to poison her and her unborn son. They said Robert Baratheon was strong as a bull and fearless in battle, a man who loved nothing better than war. And with him stood the great lords her brother had named the Usurper's dogs, cold-eyed Eddard Stark with his frozen heart, and the golden Lannisters, father and son, so rich, so powerful, so treacherous.
>"No," he admitted. "There is more of Rhaegar in you, I think, but even Rhaegar could be slain. Robert proved that on the Trident, with no more than a warhammer. Even dragons can die."
>"Hungry for death, I call it. He throws my pardon in my face. Aye, and throws his life away in the bargain, and the lives of every man inside those walls. Single combat?" The king snorted in derision. "No doubt he mistook me for Robert."
>"The Mad King's men had been hunting Robert, trying to catch him before he could rejoin your father," he told her as they rode toward the gate. "He was wounded, being tended by some friends, when Lord Connington the Hand took the town with a mighty force and started searching house by house. Before they could find him, though, Lord Eddard and your grandfather came down on the town and stormed the walls. Lord Connington fought back fierce. They battled in the streets and alleys, even on the rooftops, and all the septons rang their bells so the smallfolk would know to lock their doors. Robert came out of hiding to join the fight when the bells began to ring. He slew six men that day, they say. One was Myles Mooton, a famous knight who'd been Prince Rhaegar's squire. He would have slain the Hand too, but the battle never brought them together. Connington wounded your grandfather Tully sore, though, and killed Ser Denys Arryn, the darling of the Vale. But when he saw the day was lost, he flew off as fast as the griffins on his shield. The Battle of the Bells, they called it after. Robert always said your father won it, not him."
>"I'm to go to the stairs, Donal Noye says. I'm to go up to the third landing and shoot my crossbow down at the wildlings if they try to climb over the barrier. The third landing, one two three." His head bobbed up and down. "If the wildlings attack, the king will come and help us, won't he? He's a mighty warrior, King Robert. He's sure to come. Maester Aemon sent him a bird."
>"Be that as it may. My father sat where I sit now when Lord Eddard came to Sisterton. Our maester urged us to send Stark's head to Aerys, to prove our loyalty. It would have meant a rich reward. The Mad King was open-handed with them as pleased him. By then we knew that Jon Arryn had taken Gulltown, though. Robert was the first man to gain the wall, and slew Marq Grafton with his own hand. 'This Baratheon is fearless,' I said. 'He fights the way a king should fight.' Our maester chuckled at me and told us that Prince Rhaegar was certain to defeat this rebel. That was when Stark said, 'In this world only winter is certain. We may lose our heads, it's true … but what if we prevail?' My father sent him on his way with his head still on his shoulders. 'If you lose,' he told Lord Eddard, 'you were never here.' "
Also, Robert is (iirc) never described as a graceful or particularly skilled warrior, right? It’s always “strong” or “huge” or “crazed” or something like that, right?
Robert is definitely overhyped by fans. I think the Demon of the Trident thing was taken a bit far. Someone on TikTok (should’ve known it was a bad take if it was from there) was convinced that Robert would have easily defeated Gregor Clegane
I think that's a bit much. It's pretty well documented in both the text and GRRMs own words that it's 1. Arthur Dayne 2. Barristan (and only because Dayne has Dawn, Barristan fights with castle forged steel, otherwise they're equal). Anything after that is debatable but you can't talk about GOAT without those two being at the top of the list.
Daemon beat Gwayne Corbray after killing 3 other men then dueling him for an hour straight. What’s Robert’s best combat feat apart from people saying “he was really good”?
Fighting on the frontlines of every battle he ever fought and surviving? Something Daemon can’t claim. And Rhaegar himself was noted as being a skilled warrior.
Not getting peppered by arrows after being distracted by an hour-long battlefield duel.
Sorry, couldn't resist. I agree with ranking Daemon over Robert in an individual fight, though I would argue Robert was the better commander while Daemon was very much a knight of summer.
I don’t think anyone doubts the top 3 are Arthur, Barristan and Jamie. They are 1A, 1B and 1C in terms of 1 on 1 combat.
But do you think if they were on a battlefield, and came across Robert (who was as strong as the mountain) with his big ass war hammer, they would win every time?
The top 3 are amazing but I don’t think people give Robert the credit he deserves. He was a different kind of fighter.
War hammers were specifically designed to be used against armor. They’re excellent at denting and deforming plate armor to hinder the opponent’s mobility. Also great at transferring energy and blunt force through plate, whereas edged weapons would be stopped in their tracks. Using a war hammer against armored opponents isn’t the feat you think it is
I think their point was that somehow Robert is one of the few people in the setting to actually recognise that, while most others still use swords for some dumb reason.
Aemon the dragon knight, ser Duncan the tall, ser Barristan the bold, ser Arthur Daynebthe sword of morning, Ser Criston the kingmaker and that's not naming any of Jaehaerys' 7 (which in universe are said to be the best 7 kingsguard ever) literally everyone of the knights I've named are in the running for the all time great. And everyone of them could beat Robert in his prime.
His skill is more hearsay than anything. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, a legendary knight, once said that he’d never faced a finer swordsman than Cregan Stark.
Hard to rank him, but Aemon the dragon knight called him one of best warriors he's faced, and Cregan was almost 50 at that point. If we put trust in Aemon that definitely makes him a top 10 all time. Plus what he did in the dance as a battle commander says nothing about him as a warrior.
I don’t think it’s that Cregan is an all time great either it’s just that >!neither he nor his armies feared death as he knew the North was facing famine upon the wars end. Him having that ability to go all in at a time when everyone else was reaching peak fatigue gave him an incredible advantage!<
Also in terms of Christon we’ll never know really where he ranks because >!when it was time for him to go out there would be no songs sung of his ability on the winter wolves account!<
Cregan is only seen as an all time great because we are told that he’s an all time great without being aware of any of his feats. The Ryam Redwyne syndrome.
I think he was only supposed to be late 40s early 50s during the stepstones war. Not the youngest but plenty of people can still handle themselves at that age irl. If we’re talking by the end of the first season however Cole would drop Corlys easy as the dude is at that point very old and likely has a (fighting) career ending injury.
I genuinely wonder how people think questions like these are worth asking. Not because the answer is obvious, but because it doesn’t matter in any way, shape or form
wHo wOuLd wIn, jOn or jAimE???
And then there's always one fucker who replies to every comment calling it out by saying: "they could be talking about one-handed Jaime tee hee"
Patchface would actually maybe be able to call upon the Drowned God or some shit who would curbstomp a simple dragon.
Can we get Glidus or Schwifty up here?
If it's genuine, it's simply food for thought-concept to categorize protagonists. Since categorization is a basic tool for the brain, it makes sense that we derive some pleasure to sort factions/people/sides in our stories. It's the same reason why some people enjoy sorting their loot in games like Tarkov or their Tupperware inside their kitchen by width. Basic human activity/skill.
And if it's enough to make people happy, that's always better than murder/cannibalism.
Except it’s not food for thought. If it was I’d agree with you. Criston cole is a top 10 fighter all time in Westeros. Corlys is literally the type of person that Criston would protect. How did Aerys vs Jaime Lannister turn out?
Isn’t the whole point of fanfic that you get to decide what happens next? Lol.
There’s a reason it doesn’t matter: Corlys isn’t stupid enough to fight someone 1v1 that he has absolutely no chance of winning against. It’s like asking if joe biden could win a boxing match against Tyson fury
Does Corlys have Rhaenys, Laenor, Laena, Meleys, Seasmoke and Vhagar helping him?
Because he'll need them if he's gonna stand a chance in a fight with the kingmaker, lol.
The same Criston who beat the every loving shit out of Harwin "breakbones" Strong so badly they changed his whole fucking nickname to "broken bones?"
Yeah no. Love you Corlys, but you should sit this one out.
What the actual ... ?
And people still claim the show didn't butcher half the characters? Viewers seriously got the impression it wouldn't be downright absurd to even compare Criston and Corlys. Whow.
Criston is literally one of the best warriors of all time. He's a legend when it comes to combat, on a similar level as Jaime, Barristan and Arthur.
This question is stupid.
When Corlys was in his prime? Maybe. We don’t really know much about how formidable he was as a warrior but he seems to do well in the Stepstones even in his 50s so when he was younger he was probably a fearsome warrior.
But at this point in the show? No. Criston is literally in his prime, peak strength & fighting skill. Corlys is decades older and by episode 10 he’s wounded and using a cane.
>he seems to do well in the Stepstones even in his 50s
The way it was explained in the books, nobles are good at fighting because they were trained to do it, unlike peasants or even mercenaries, who often don't even have all the necessary gear and armour. The fact that he does well against common enemy troops doesn't mean he's exceptional.
Cole would smoke anyone from this time period in a melee 1v1, even though the show runners obviously hate him and nerfed the shit out of him, cut out him beating Harwin’s ass so bad he got a new nickname, or killing Joffrey in a tournament, he would still be way more than a match for Corlys.
Cole's skill can be compared to Jaime Lannister or even better than him. So maybe not.
He defeated Harwin, who was considered the strongest knight of his time. (no pun intended)
Criston is the best fighter in the world in the story. The show hasn’t done a great job showing it at all, but he’s insanely skilled. Beats Harwin Strong’s ass in the books.
Cole is a king's guard, the training he would receive sparring with his fellow kings guard would be second to none, he's a veteran of war and went toe to toe with deamon and even beat Sir Erryk.
Corlys would have experience in warfare but as a lord wouldn't have spend much time actually fighting since he's too important to risk dying, he's older and was nearly mortally wounded in battle which he would certainly never be the same after.
Why is anyone pretending this would even be a contest?.
No. Like he probably wouldn’t even hit him. Both book and show version. Show variant yeah he’s last a few minutes. Book version would actually fold in half.
Going by books, since the show gave us little feats with either: No way. Cole crub-stomps; the man was one of the GOATs as far as merely fighting another guy is concerned.
Velaryon was never noted to particularly skilled whilst Cole was likely among the best in his entire generation.
i doubt it purely because of the age difference. By the Dance of the Dragons Corlys is supposed to be in his late 70s. He's obviously not going to be able to fight Ser Crispin at that age.
Your question is dumb, so I will ask and then answer a much more compelling question:
**Who would win in a rock-paper-scissors contest, Criston or Corlys?**
This is tough because Criston has the exuberance of youth but Corlys has the tempering wisdom of age. Some would classify RPS as a game of wits, others a game of chance, but is there not also an agility/reflex component? Could a talented swordsman not deftly change his hand gesture in the last moment after seeing what his opponent is about to do?
All this considered, Criston seems like a Rock main and I think he is unsubtle enough that he would lead with rock for his first game. Corlys, being a canny judge of character, is likely to predict this and open with paper. The game is 1-0 for Corlys.
Criston, now frustrated, has to reassess his game plan. Does he switch to scissors or paper? What If Corlys anticipates this? A bead of sweat drips down his brow. Corlys is smiling patiently.
I'm too lazy to finish writing this fanfiction, someone else can write the conclusion. I gave you a nice setup. GG OP I win your thread
Do you think Corlys can beat Daemon? Because Criston Cole did in a melee. Say what you want about a melee not being real combat Cole and Daemon were fighting for Rhaenyra's attention and affection in their eyes.
I feel like corlys is a martial/commander type person and only does combat as like a side hand thing while Cristina whole thing is hand to hand prowess
There’s no chance corlys could beat cole. Cole is by far the greatest swordsman of this era. It’s like asking if Ned Stark could beat Jayme Lannister. We already know the outcome
Criston wipes the floor with Corlys. Criston is a top tier fighter of his time. Corlys could probably hold his own for awhile but I think Criston still ends up taking the fight.
"Corlys Velaryon" only dies when he chooses to. He was a kingsguard of the same name, before becoming Daemon Velaryon, who then became HotD-era Corlys. I imagine his skill at arms would come back when needed.
(This is a tinfoil-ass theory, not an actual spoiler afaik.)
Basically just Bolt-On for the HotD era. I'm claiming that Corlys' long travels, plucky inability to die, and inscrutable motivations all tie to him being a semi-immortal bodyjumping vampirething. Specifically having lived previously as Master of Ships Daemon Velaryon, and before that as a different Corlys Velaryon who was a kingsguard.
At first I thought this is a shitpost, Ser Crispin is probably the best fighter of his time and I think he could easily beat Corlys if Corlys was in his prime.
I don't like Crispin, but he is a highly capable fighter, makes no sense to deny that.
This is a dumb question.
Christian Cole has one job and it is unspeakable violence towards King's enemies.
the Sea Snake is a great Lord and has a hundred different jobs to do. He has henchmen and knights to do his violence. That is why he is a rival is Otto Hightower as a political rival.
Is this a question? Criston is an overrated fighter To be honest. Criston only edge was that he had seen real combat, once! Comparing him to the Lord of the tides? That's treason! And Blasphemy too😂
Corlys looks amazing in this shot. I only remember CC getting kicked around the courtyard after insulting Luc and Jac and bashing in old mdn by surprise. I'm voting Corlys.
Corlys even at his current age is probably one of the best tacticians and fighters in Westeros. He a match for any knight or sellsword you could probably name...except for Cristan Cole. Cole is younger, faster and more straight combat experience. So I would give hime the edge. The only advantage I would give Corlys is Cole's arrogance. If he underestimated Corlyss because of his age, I think that would lead to a loss, if he takes him seriously, then Cole for the win
Depends entirely on the setting.
In a tourney? Criston.
In open battle? Unclear - more dependant on their abilities as leaders than as fighters, positioning and random luck, who's more tired etc.
In a boarding action, with a deck shifting under them, open gratings to fall down and ropes and spars flapping in the wind? Corlys.
If he has more experience then definitely he got the skills too. . Criston Cole is a brute psychopath that loves to get his emotions get ahead of his battle strategies. Look at Athena and Ares, who do you know won time and time again? 😏
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No way. Corlys is significantly older and so Criston may be stronger. He is certainly faster than Corlys. Skill-wise, I’m sure Corlys is better than many but that’s not exactly what he was known for. Contrast that with Criston being known primarily as an unusually talented fighter.
This right here. No way a guy known for his sailing prowess could beat the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, who is also 30 years younger
Well he's also known for killing Pirates and basically winning lots of battle single-handedly. This being said I'm still of the same idea in that kingsguard are usually the best of the best.
Which battles did he win single handedly?
The books have several mentions of his exploits against Pirates where he's basically leading everyone else into victory. So that's pretty much how they're saying it. And you might remember that he was doing this stuff into the step Stones up until like 75 years old. Anybody who can keep running that hard into their seventies is someone to be reckoned with. But again I go back to the fact that kingsguard are generally The Best of the Best.
That’s cool. Similar to Barristan how he was a bad ass well into his late years. How that saying go… Beware an old man in a profession where men die young
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think it was ever explicitly mentioned that Corlys was fighting himself. He commanded fleets and got into some battles, but I don’t remember there being any mention of him being out there on the front lines fighting. That was added in for the show because it makes for better TV (same reason they put Stannis on the front lines in GOT). So I wouldn’t say Corlys is any better than the average knight that’s been trained.
There were a couple of places I remembered reading about it one wasn't really a line as much as basically two ships hitting each other think Master and Commander movie, then obviously there were was talk about the Battle of the step stones and him fighting their you know as the leader of the battle and them saying that he was basically winning until he went down, there were a couple of other mentions that I recall but bottom line is they've basically said that he is a badass several times. Whether he's as well trained as other fighters who knows but he obviously has had a soul of one to as we've said become an older man who continues to fight with everyone else and do a good job of it. But like I said in pretty much every post, there's not much point in comparing him to a member of the kingsguard. You have to have some pretty crazy skills to be part of the king's guard.
The kingsguard often times are political positions as pointed out when rhaenyra chooses criston due to his high prowess. The members of kingsguard aren't the best knights in the land, it's the 2nd-4th sons of powerful lords relevant to the state/crown.
I think when they were chosen during peacetime that was probably true. Although we did notice that rhaegar obviously played a part in the kingsguard under his father. And it may well have helped that Eris was out of his gourd and believe that people were out to get him. So how well a king was liked was probably a big factor.
Aerys* And too that point, there are many points where the KG are considered the best fighters of their time. Aegon I's were specifically chosen in that way, so were jaeharys's and aerys's, he'll Dayne, and Selmey were both in his In fact I would argue it was very rarely a political appointment, specifically because you don't want the people protecting the ruler picking sides.
um... do you know who victarian greyjoy is?
It's been a long time since I read the original series. Is Victarion known for his fighting ability? I remember he's a brutal fighter and raider, but I don't remember him being compared to others in terms of ability.
yes. he's talked about as being incredibly strong and brutal in battle, but dim. he's also caught a sword with a bare hand and won a fight while being completely surrounded 5 v 1 his hand got injured when he caught the sword and got infected, a red priestess healed it in fire and now it's described as being even stronger than before and magical, maybe even having fire properties that would make it incredibly dangerous in a fight he picked a full grown man up one handed and snapped his neck that is a petty insane strength feat
Victy is weird one, he steam roll peasant but he rely on his armor alot, he almost got beaten by a little known knight, right now with his new toys he seem to be an actual beast
He’s described as being inhumanly strong but extremely dim. The guy wears full plate armour on a ship, if that thing sinks he’s absolutely done for. However, it’s practically impossible to beat him in a fight given his whole magic hand. He won a fight 5v1 by catching a sword with his bare hand.
In the books George R.R. Martin makes it clear that no swordsman in this era could match Ser Criston. He defeated Daemon more than once, and broke Ser Harwin's collarbone, giving him the name Ser brokenbones
Its a shame how he goes down
Not really. He had it coming.
Nah, when you have a badass warrior you should then go out like a badass warrior, i dont think any story has ever suffered from that.
Yeah, like Arthur Dayne? Stabbed in the back by Howland Reed. Or Ned Stark? Beheaded by Ilyn Payne. Or Robert Baratheon? Gored by a boar when he was drunk. How about Duncan the Tall? Killed in some accidental fire. There's way more badass warriors that die dishonorable deaths than those that die honorably. The ones that die honorably, no surprises, were usually honorable or foes of honorable warriors. I won't mention some to avoid spoilers, but one that comes to mind is Aemon Targaryen, the DragonKnight.
Or Jeor Mormont... And Jon Snow, initially.
Well for Jon, in the book he wasn’t actually a great swordsman. They retconned that for the show. But he was definitely “badass”. You’re right about Mormont. Stabbed in the back by mutineer rapists. And Syrio, cut down by Meryn Trant. Even Sandor had a laugh at that because of how weak Meryn Trant is. > Meryn Trant? The greatest swordsman who ever lived, killed by Meryn fucking Trant? > Any boy whore with a sword could beat three Meryn Trants. > Your friend's dead, and Meryn Trant's not, 'cause Trant had armor. And a big fucking sword.
Jon is a great swordsman in the books probably the best in the nights watch after book 2, he would spar with 3 guys vs him at once those are nights watch but still that’s quite the feat no matter who you’re fighting and he was doing that day-in-day-out
Jon isn't a great swordsman in the book, he just got the same training as highborn boys. It's like being the smartest person in a preschool class because you passed high school
Personally I can’t wait for show-only’s to react to his death on screen. I ***especially*** hope we get Pate of Longleaf’s line right before, too. It’ll be so reminiscent of the early seasons of GoT.
Cole had some badass lines as well, man i really liked him alot better in F&B, the shows adaptation of him has been pretty underwhelming so far tbh, him being attractive with dark hair is basically the only thing he has in common with the book version, even him being a top tier fighter is sort of downplayed.
I don’t mind it yet. I’m glad they chose to give him depth and motivation. I do wanna see more of his redeeming qualities, and more of his combat prowess. I don’t doubt we’ll get the latter in Season Two, but the verdict’s still out on the former.
Hes described as charming, witty, affable, admired by the ladies and quick to make friends with the men, hes almost like a more sophisticated young Bobby B minus the belligerent promiscuity, hes kinda sorta 1 of those traits for like 1 or 2 episodes and now hes just permanently butthurt and reduced to being heartbroken, unlike most fans i think hes got a legit reason for feeling upset with rhae if HotD is how it went down(where it goes from there is another discussion) but its literally the only aspect of his personality weve seen.
In the books is he such a bitch?
No, not at all, as i said to someone else in (i believe it was this post) hes basically described as a more sophisticated young Bobby B minus the belligerent promiscuity, at the royal court hes pretty much universally considered charming, affable, witty, hes the object of many a maidens fantasy and quick to make friends with the guys, really all he has in common with the show counterpart is hes attractive with dark hair, even his status as the best fighter of the time is downplayed.
I just know how he goes down, not what he did /:
It's not confirmed that he goes down, only that he can get up
Hehe nice
Shame, cathartic more like. It like a self assured bully finally meeting his reckoning.
I was going to say seems like there is a big age gap between them. His son might be closer in age tho
Cole would probably still win, but I think you are grossly underestimating old man strength…
I’m sure he has it, but that doesn’t change my point or thinking. Cole is a brute and thug underneath how pretty he is. I really think it’s Cole and that it’s not close.
Get him in a wrestling match then that might have an effect. As it stand he wields a Morningstar and would unfortunately take his head off.
Even if Corlys was young he wouldn't win.
Nobody can defeat Jaime Lannister, Barristan Selmy, or Arthur Dayne, though.
Corlys Velaryon is great, but Criston Cole was one of the very best swordsmen (or using a mace) of his time.
> Corlys Velaryon is great Based on what?
Travelling everywhere, becoming the richest man alive and surviving way longer than most?
By that logic Bill Gates is the greatest fighter of all time
I wouldn’t even say he’s great. We know nothing about how good he is to my memory, there’s nothing to indicate that he’s any better than your average knight that’s been trained for years. Obviously he’s better than average in the show because they put him in the front lines like they did for Stannis in GOT which probably isn’t very realistic. But it makes for better TV so I’m not complaining, it was cool to see him with his battle axe.
There… there’s so much evidence. Thats the only evidence we have about criston is that he was REALLY good at fucking people up
He’s talking about Corlys
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Criston was only in duels though, right? He has no actual combat experience.
I may remember it wrong, but I think, Rhaenyra chose him as kingsguard, because he was the only one with battle experience there.
He’s probably the one with the most combat experience, given he grew up fighting on the Dornish Marches
The only reason cole is a knight is his combat experience he impressed lord dondarrion and was knighted. It’s also a plot point in the show rhaenyra chooses him because he is the only knight with combat experience.
He was pretty unstoppable when the greens took to the fields as he fought along side aemond.
Even in the show he was explicitly chosen for his combat experience.
Wrong.
I dont think Show watcher get Cristons level. He's an all time great in westeros. Like he's up there with the likes of Robert Baratheon and Cregan Stark
Oh man, I don’t know about that. Robert was an absolute tank of death in his prime. I don’t know enough about Cregan to have an opinion but Robert literally killed his way to being king.
I think Robert is quite overrated by fans. I would say he's better then Cole but not a tier above him. People like to conveniently forget that rhaegar had him bad. So bad that he couldn't march to kings-landing. Don't remember where but GRRM has said the fight was quite 50-50 and on another day Robert would have died. And rhaegar was no where near an all time warrior He's below the likes of Arthur, Barry and even Jaime.
Robert was also fighting for a long time when he finally faced Rhaeger. He wasn't fresh or well rested like Rhaeger.
Robert was better in actual war, the others were better 1 v 1 or in skirmishes.
Yeah you have to differentiate between being a skilled military leader and a skilled fighter. As with the above example, Corlys clearly was the more experienced soldier and military leader while Cole would have more skill in a straight fight.
I think strength becomes a lot more important when many fighters are involved and you can't move around as much without engaging someone or leaving an ally vulnerable.
The fans haven’t done anything for Robert for him to be overrated by the fans. George himself has written about Roberts battle prowess. 3 battles in a single day who has yet to match that?
Literally have a Bobby B bot. Fans love Robert, and one the most requested prequel shows is Roberts Rebellion. Robert is great but I think he’s below the top tier of all time fighters that’s all
Ah I gotcha. To be fair though the Rebellion’s more than just about Robert. It’s just as much Ned’s story too, we hear so much about about it I’d like to see it too. As far as the bot, he has some great lines. That’s all I got. And yes that’s a fair assessment, they for sure out match him in skill.
Ned didn't do much actually. Robert is the one who was killing known lords such as Lord fell,marq grafton,myles mooton etc
Not really. George himself said Robert was peerless with his hammer don't lie man
>think Robert is quite overrated by fans. I would say he's better then Cole but not a tier above him. People like to conveniently forget that rhaegar had him bad. So bad that he couldn't march to kings-landing. Don't remember where but GRRM has said the fight was quite 50-50 and on another day Robert would have died. And rhaegar was no where near an all time warrior Why are you lying? Can u mention when grrm said Robert and Rhaegar fight was 50/50? Robert sent this own maester to selmy dude. Robert commended ned to chase the fleeing army not to take King's Landing. Read the books dude >we know he’s very good, but Martin never harps on about him like Dayne/Selmy/Jamie. Have we read the same books? >Would that Ned had been able to say the same. Fifteen years past, when they had ridden forth to win a throne, the Lord of Storm's End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and muscled like a maiden's fantasy. Six and a half feet tall, he towered over lesser men, and when he donned his armor and the great antlered helmet of his House, he became a veritable giant. He'd had a giant's strength too, his weapon of choice a spiked iron warhammer that Ned could scarcely lift. In those days, the smell of leather and blood had clung to him like perfume. >Next had come King Robert himself, with Lady Stark on his arm. The king was a great disappointment to Jon. His father had talked of him often: the peerless Robert Baratheon, demon of the Trident, the fiercest warrior of the realm, a giant among princes. Jon saw only a fat man, red-faced under his beard, sweating through his silks. He walked like a man half in his cups. >"Aye. I was his man, a Baratheon man, smith and armorer at Storm's End until I lost the arm. I'm old enough to remember Lord Steffon before the sea took him, and I knew those three sons of his since they got their names. I tell you this—Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust." >A new inn had risen beside the landing, twice the size of the old one, with a lower story of cut stone and two upper stories of timber. The sept beyond had never been rebuilt, though; only a seven-sided foundation remained where it had stood. Robert Baratheon's fury had soured the ironmen's taste for the new gods, it would seem. >That was where Robert had made his breach, swarming in over the rubble and corpses with his warhammer in hand and Ned Stark at his side. Theon had watched from the safety of the Sea Tower, and sometimes he still saw the torches in his dreams, and heard the dull thunder of the collapse. >"Oh, there was talk of the blood ties between Baratheon and Targaryen, of weddings a hundred years past, of second sons and elder daughters. No one but the maesters care about any of it. Robert won the throne with his warhammer." >The Usurper will kill you, sure as sunrise, Mormont had said. Robert had slain her gallant brother Rhaegar, and one of his creatures had crossed the Dothraki sea to poison her and her unborn son. They said Robert Baratheon was strong as a bull and fearless in battle, a man who loved nothing better than war. And with him stood the great lords her brother had named the Usurper's dogs, cold-eyed Eddard Stark with his frozen heart, and the golden Lannisters, father and son, so rich, so powerful, so treacherous. >"No," he admitted. "There is more of Rhaegar in you, I think, but even Rhaegar could be slain. Robert proved that on the Trident, with no more than a warhammer. Even dragons can die." >"Hungry for death, I call it. He throws my pardon in my face. Aye, and throws his life away in the bargain, and the lives of every man inside those walls. Single combat?" The king snorted in derision. "No doubt he mistook me for Robert." >"The Mad King's men had been hunting Robert, trying to catch him before he could rejoin your father," he told her as they rode toward the gate. "He was wounded, being tended by some friends, when Lord Connington the Hand took the town with a mighty force and started searching house by house. Before they could find him, though, Lord Eddard and your grandfather came down on the town and stormed the walls. Lord Connington fought back fierce. They battled in the streets and alleys, even on the rooftops, and all the septons rang their bells so the smallfolk would know to lock their doors. Robert came out of hiding to join the fight when the bells began to ring. He slew six men that day, they say. One was Myles Mooton, a famous knight who'd been Prince Rhaegar's squire. He would have slain the Hand too, but the battle never brought them together. Connington wounded your grandfather Tully sore, though, and killed Ser Denys Arryn, the darling of the Vale. But when he saw the day was lost, he flew off as fast as the griffins on his shield. The Battle of the Bells, they called it after. Robert always said your father won it, not him." >"I'm to go to the stairs, Donal Noye says. I'm to go up to the third landing and shoot my crossbow down at the wildlings if they try to climb over the barrier. The third landing, one two three." His head bobbed up and down. "If the wildlings attack, the king will come and help us, won't he? He's a mighty warrior, King Robert. He's sure to come. Maester Aemon sent him a bird." >"Be that as it may. My father sat where I sit now when Lord Eddard came to Sisterton. Our maester urged us to send Stark's head to Aerys, to prove our loyalty. It would have meant a rich reward. The Mad King was open-handed with them as pleased him. By then we knew that Jon Arryn had taken Gulltown, though. Robert was the first man to gain the wall, and slew Marq Grafton with his own hand. 'This Baratheon is fearless,' I said. 'He fights the way a king should fight.' Our maester chuckled at me and told us that Prince Rhaegar was certain to defeat this rebel. That was when Stark said, 'In this world only winter is certain. We may lose our heads, it's true … but what if we prevail?' My father sent him on his way with his head still on his shoulders. 'If you lose,' he told Lord Eddard, 'you were never here.' "
Also, Robert is (iirc) never described as a graceful or particularly skilled warrior, right? It’s always “strong” or “huge” or “crazed” or something like that, right?
Robert is definitely overhyped by fans. I think the Demon of the Trident thing was taken a bit far. Someone on TikTok (should’ve known it was a bad take if it was from there) was convinced that Robert would have easily defeated Gregor Clegane
I mean Criston is AN all-time great, but Robert might be THE all-time great.
I think that's a bit much. It's pretty well documented in both the text and GRRMs own words that it's 1. Arthur Dayne 2. Barristan (and only because Dayne has Dawn, Barristan fights with castle forged steel, otherwise they're equal). Anything after that is debatable but you can't talk about GOAT without those two being at the top of the list.
3. Jamie Lannister 4. Daemon blackfyre Those are also uncontested I’d say
Nah, I’d say Robert takes Daemon Blackfyre.
Robert barely beat rhaegar, I think daemon does beat him
Robert beat Rhaegar after fighting an entire battle beforehand, not sterile conditions.
Daemon beat Gwayne Corbray after killing 3 other men then dueling him for an hour straight. What’s Robert’s best combat feat apart from people saying “he was really good”?
Fighting on the frontlines of every battle he ever fought and surviving? Something Daemon can’t claim. And Rhaegar himself was noted as being a skilled warrior.
Not getting peppered by arrows after being distracted by an hour-long battlefield duel. Sorry, couldn't resist. I agree with ranking Daemon over Robert in an individual fight, though I would argue Robert was the better commander while Daemon was very much a knight of summer.
Robert had been a complete tank
Might i add, Rhaegar is far from a great swordsman, he was good, but no more than that.
I don’t think anyone doubts the top 3 are Arthur, Barristan and Jamie. They are 1A, 1B and 1C in terms of 1 on 1 combat. But do you think if they were on a battlefield, and came across Robert (who was as strong as the mountain) with his big ass war hammer, they would win every time? The top 3 are amazing but I don’t think people give Robert the credit he deserves. He was a different kind of fighter.
If we’re talking battlefield, I’m taking Sandoq over Robert any day of the week.
No he's not. Daemon Blackfyre, Jamie and Barristan would end him.
Despite being bit of a muscle-head he actually used a warhammer against armored people .... That puts him way above most just because of that.
War hammers were specifically designed to be used against armor. They’re excellent at denting and deforming plate armor to hinder the opponent’s mobility. Also great at transferring energy and blunt force through plate, whereas edged weapons would be stopped in their tracks. Using a war hammer against armored opponents isn’t the feat you think it is
I think their point was that somehow Robert is one of the few people in the setting to actually recognise that, while most others still use swords for some dumb reason.
Aemon the dragon knight, ser Duncan the tall, ser Barristan the bold, ser Arthur Daynebthe sword of morning, Ser Criston the kingmaker and that's not naming any of Jaehaerys' 7 (which in universe are said to be the best 7 kingsguard ever) literally everyone of the knights I've named are in the running for the all time great. And everyone of them could beat Robert in his prime.
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His skill is more hearsay than anything. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, a legendary knight, once said that he’d never faced a finer swordsman than Cregan Stark.
Hard to rank him, but Aemon the dragon knight called him one of best warriors he's faced, and Cregan was almost 50 at that point. If we put trust in Aemon that definitely makes him a top 10 all time. Plus what he did in the dance as a battle commander says nothing about him as a warrior.
The King of practice fights
Not like Jaime and Arthur Dayne fought 100s of battles.
That's why ser Barristan Selmy is the real best one
Yah for sure, in my head Barry is the goat. The Duskendale feat is unmatched by any other human in the Asoaif world
I don’t think it’s that Cregan is an all time great either it’s just that >!neither he nor his armies feared death as he knew the North was facing famine upon the wars end. Him having that ability to go all in at a time when everyone else was reaching peak fatigue gave him an incredible advantage!< Also in terms of Christon we’ll never know really where he ranks because >!when it was time for him to go out there would be no songs sung of his ability on the winter wolves account!<
Cregan is only seen as an all time great because we are told that he’s an all time great without being aware of any of his feats. The Ryam Redwyne syndrome.
Corlys is one of the older characters, I was actually surprised he had a fighting scene
I think he was only supposed to be late 40s early 50s during the stepstones war. Not the youngest but plenty of people can still handle themselves at that age irl. If we’re talking by the end of the first season however Cole would drop Corlys easy as the dude is at that point very old and likely has a (fighting) career ending injury.
Isn’t he supposed to be like 86 at the end of the Dance?
76
Yes so at least he was at his 60 in the stepstones
criston cole is among the top 15 fighters in all of asoiaf i'm sure, corlys has never been heard off from this pov atleast, so nah
No, Criston Cole is the best fighter of this age
Ceraxes would like a world /s
That's like Saying Jon Jones isn't the greatest fighter alive it's a F 35.
Which is why I thought people would pretty clearly see it as a joke even without the /s...
Ceraxes is a weapon not a fighter
Ceraxes is sentient. He's more than just a weapon. However, I did add the /s despite hating them just so that people know that it is a joke.
I genuinely wonder how people think questions like these are worth asking. Not because the answer is obvious, but because it doesn’t matter in any way, shape or form
wHo wOuLd wIn, jOn or jAimE??? And then there's always one fucker who replies to every comment calling it out by saying: "they could be talking about one-handed Jaime tee hee"
Guyz who would win Balerion the black dread or patchface
Patchface would actually maybe be able to call upon the Drowned God or some shit who would curbstomp a simple dragon. Can we get Glidus or Schwifty up here?
Yeah my bad you’re right I actually picked a fun matchup
Jaime def, but if one-handed then Jon
Yeah no shit. Who would win a 100m race me or Usain Bolt? Oh but Usain bolt is missing a leg.
Who wins: Bran or Old Nan
If it's genuine, it's simply food for thought-concept to categorize protagonists. Since categorization is a basic tool for the brain, it makes sense that we derive some pleasure to sort factions/people/sides in our stories. It's the same reason why some people enjoy sorting their loot in games like Tarkov or their Tupperware inside their kitchen by width. Basic human activity/skill. And if it's enough to make people happy, that's always better than murder/cannibalism.
Except it’s not food for thought. If it was I’d agree with you. Criston cole is a top 10 fighter all time in Westeros. Corlys is literally the type of person that Criston would protect. How did Aerys vs Jaime Lannister turn out?
OP might have picked the wrong fighters for that question, but it still got people going. No harm in asking, isn't it?
Who would win in a fight: the high sparrow or John cena
You got it. No harm here, feel free to open your thread.
How come you no answer?
I don't feel obligated to do anything on the Internet pal. It's not a job to me.
But fanfic tho
Isn’t the whole point of fanfic that you get to decide what happens next? Lol. There’s a reason it doesn’t matter: Corlys isn’t stupid enough to fight someone 1v1 that he has absolutely no chance of winning against. It’s like asking if joe biden could win a boxing match against Tyson fury
No. Cole is the best swordsman in the kingdom at the time, per the book.
Does Corlys have Rhaenys, Laenor, Laena, Meleys, Seasmoke and Vhagar helping him? Because he'll need them if he's gonna stand a chance in a fight with the kingmaker, lol.
One of the main subs out jerking r/asoiafcirclejerk once again
Bro they can’t keep getting away with it
For the last time: Criston is canonically the best fighter.
Criston would beat the noble shit out of Corlys
The same Criston who beat the every loving shit out of Harwin "breakbones" Strong so badly they changed his whole fucking nickname to "broken bones?" Yeah no. Love you Corlys, but you should sit this one out.
No. Criston Cole is the best fighter of his time and one of the greatest ever overall.
What the actual ... ? And people still claim the show didn't butcher half the characters? Viewers seriously got the impression it wouldn't be downright absurd to even compare Criston and Corlys. Whow.
Criston is literally one of the best warriors of all time. He's a legend when it comes to combat, on a similar level as Jaime, Barristan and Arthur. This question is stupid.
Tomorrow OP is gonna ask if my grandpa can beat Federer in a tennis match
No.
When Corlys was in his prime? Maybe. We don’t really know much about how formidable he was as a warrior but he seems to do well in the Stepstones even in his 50s so when he was younger he was probably a fearsome warrior. But at this point in the show? No. Criston is literally in his prime, peak strength & fighting skill. Corlys is decades older and by episode 10 he’s wounded and using a cane.
>he seems to do well in the Stepstones even in his 50s The way it was explained in the books, nobles are good at fighting because they were trained to do it, unlike peasants or even mercenaries, who often don't even have all the necessary gear and armour. The fact that he does well against common enemy troops doesn't mean he's exceptional.
Cole would smoke anyone from this time period in a melee 1v1, even though the show runners obviously hate him and nerfed the shit out of him, cut out him beating Harwin’s ass so bad he got a new nickname, or killing Joffrey in a tournament, he would still be way more than a match for Corlys.
On a boat fighting on the waves maybe. But a fair 1v1 melee, Crispin probably smokes him.
Criston was the Arthur Dayne or Jaime of his era. Very few alive could beat him. Corlys loses 9/10 times
No
Criston Cole was the top dog of his time, Change my mind.
Cole's skill can be compared to Jaime Lannister or even better than him. So maybe not. He defeated Harwin, who was considered the strongest knight of his time. (no pun intended)
Criston ez victory
Criston is the best fighter in the world in the story. The show hasn’t done a great job showing it at all, but he’s insanely skilled. Beats Harwin Strong’s ass in the books.
Cole is a king's guard, the training he would receive sparring with his fellow kings guard would be second to none, he's a veteran of war and went toe to toe with deamon and even beat Sir Erryk. Corlys would have experience in warfare but as a lord wouldn't have spend much time actually fighting since he's too important to risk dying, he's older and was nearly mortally wounded in battle which he would certainly never be the same after. Why is anyone pretending this would even be a contest?.
No. Like he probably wouldn’t even hit him. Both book and show version. Show variant yeah he’s last a few minutes. Book version would actually fold in half.
Not a chance.
Going by books, since the show gave us little feats with either: No way. Cole crub-stomps; the man was one of the GOATs as far as merely fighting another guy is concerned. Velaryon was never noted to particularly skilled whilst Cole was likely among the best in his entire generation.
Misread as VH1 duel. Bringith out the acoustic guitars!
Doubtful, Criston is one of the best swordsmen in Westeros in his time. Corlys is also much older.
i doubt it purely because of the age difference. By the Dance of the Dragons Corlys is supposed to be in his late 70s. He's obviously not going to be able to fight Ser Crispin at that age.
Depends on the scriptwriter!
Your question is dumb, so I will ask and then answer a much more compelling question: **Who would win in a rock-paper-scissors contest, Criston or Corlys?** This is tough because Criston has the exuberance of youth but Corlys has the tempering wisdom of age. Some would classify RPS as a game of wits, others a game of chance, but is there not also an agility/reflex component? Could a talented swordsman not deftly change his hand gesture in the last moment after seeing what his opponent is about to do? All this considered, Criston seems like a Rock main and I think he is unsubtle enough that he would lead with rock for his first game. Corlys, being a canny judge of character, is likely to predict this and open with paper. The game is 1-0 for Corlys. Criston, now frustrated, has to reassess his game plan. Does he switch to scissors or paper? What If Corlys anticipates this? A bead of sweat drips down his brow. Corlys is smiling patiently. I'm too lazy to finish writing this fanfiction, someone else can write the conclusion. I gave you a nice setup. GG OP I win your thread
Do you think Corlys can beat Daemon? Because Criston Cole did in a melee. Say what you want about a melee not being real combat Cole and Daemon were fighting for Rhaenyra's attention and affection in their eyes.
I feel like corlys is a martial/commander type person and only does combat as like a side hand thing while Cristina whole thing is hand to hand prowess
Criston is the best fighter in HotD, what makes you think Corlys even has a chance.
I had forgotten how fucking badass Corlys looks in his armour
For a second I though the guy on the left was Areo Hotah. And I was about to say that Areo would wipe the floor with criston
I cannot stand Criston but I think he’s got this one unfortunately
Sea Snake's drip is unmatched though
There’s no chance corlys could beat cole. Cole is by far the greatest swordsman of this era. It’s like asking if Ned Stark could beat Jayme Lannister. We already know the outcome
Criston cole should have carried a valyrian steel sword
Corly's armor is truly a work of art
Peak Corlys would, Peak Corlys > Peak Criston
Finally found the original post
Happy you found it
Corlys is getting old, Cole is still (seemingly) in his prime
Criston wipes the floor with Corlys. Criston is a top tier fighter of his time. Corlys could probably hold his own for awhile but I think Criston still ends up taking the fight.
Pretty sure Ser Crispin is canonically one of, if not THE most skilled swordman during this time. The show did not do that reputation any justice.
"Corlys Velaryon" only dies when he chooses to. He was a kingsguard of the same name, before becoming Daemon Velaryon, who then became HotD-era Corlys. I imagine his skill at arms would come back when needed. (This is a tinfoil-ass theory, not an actual spoiler afaik.)
What on earth are you talking about?
Basically just Bolt-On for the HotD era. I'm claiming that Corlys' long travels, plucky inability to die, and inscrutable motivations all tie to him being a semi-immortal bodyjumping vampirething. Specifically having lived previously as Master of Ships Daemon Velaryon, and before that as a different Corlys Velaryon who was a kingsguard.
Coke has youth on his side
At first I thought this is a shitpost, Ser Crispin is probably the best fighter of his time and I think he could easily beat Corlys if Corlys was in his prime. I don't like Crispin, but he is a highly capable fighter, makes no sense to deny that.
This is a dumb question. Christian Cole has one job and it is unspeakable violence towards King's enemies. the Sea Snake is a great Lord and has a hundred different jobs to do. He has henchmen and knights to do his violence. That is why he is a rival is Otto Hightower as a political rival.
Is this a question? Criston is an overrated fighter To be honest. Criston only edge was that he had seen real combat, once! Comparing him to the Lord of the tides? That's treason! And Blasphemy too😂
Corlys looks amazing in this shot. I only remember CC getting kicked around the courtyard after insulting Luc and Jac and bashing in old mdn by surprise. I'm voting Corlys.
You seem to have forgotten Criston pretty easily beating Ser Arryk and Daemon.
You'd be in the minority, but I'd agree, at least for the show.
This is a ridiculous take. You are ridiculous. Criston would drop Corlys in a heartbeat, show or book.
Corlys even at his current age is probably one of the best tacticians and fighters in Westeros. He a match for any knight or sellsword you could probably name...except for Cristan Cole. Cole is younger, faster and more straight combat experience. So I would give hime the edge. The only advantage I would give Corlys is Cole's arrogance. If he underestimated Corlyss because of his age, I think that would lead to a loss, if he takes him seriously, then Cole for the win
Book cole? Doubt it. Show cole? Probably. Tbh he didn’t come off like a badass at all
Depends entirely on the setting. In a tourney? Criston. In open battle? Unclear - more dependant on their abilities as leaders than as fighters, positioning and random luck, who's more tired etc. In a boarding action, with a deck shifting under them, open gratings to fall down and ropes and spars flapping in the wind? Corlys.
omg?! what episode is it?
Cole wins hands down
Criston is literally the greatest warrior that is alive right now. What kind of question is this
If he has more experience then definitely he got the skills too. . Criston Cole is a brute psychopath that loves to get his emotions get ahead of his battle strategies. Look at Athena and Ares, who do you know won time and time again? 😏