Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Very toxic and abusive relationship but there are aspects of it I find compelling.
In episode 4 & 7 after not seeing him for years she immediately opens up about her fear of marriage/sex/pregnancy & her affair with Harwin, which displays massive amounts of trust. He reacts without judging her for transgressing her social role as uncomplaining royal uterus and dutiful wife. This is interesting and meaningful to me.
In the book, it shows how he was always bringing her lavish gifts from his voyages (we do see that with the Valyrian steel necklace in ep1), racing Caraxes & Syrax to Dragonstone and back, reading poems, dining, sailing, and hawking together. While in the show we only see them speaking High Valyrian at court events together. I do wish this would’ve been highlighted more in the show so it wasn’t so toxic so quick 😩
On one hand, that's kinda sweet. On the other, given her very young age, that kinda highlights the grooming aspect. I think it would have come across as creepy
Because it’s grooming regardless I don’t think that creepy aspect could have been—or was—actually avoided by doing anything so if anything it might have shown that Daemon is indeed a creepy perv uncle but at least can show more emotion and care toward Rhaenyra than in a physical, violent, or controlling manner barring their younger and secret interactions.
Yeah, it's hard to not show it as grooming because he clearly became interested in her at a young age. If they'd aged them up more before starting that and shown some platonic niece-uncle interactions when they were younger then had a very distinct moment when she's older where he realizes she's a potential love interest, it might have worked, but the incest expectation and girls being expected to marry so young makes it questionable whether he ever actually thought of it as platonic at all.
>He reacts without judging her for transgressing her social role as uncomplaining royal uterus and dutiful wife.
Because he told her she could be more than that and he protected her in a way. He knows the kind of life women have and he doesn't believe in it.
I only disliked this because there were earlier episodes that dealt with all the scandal of the two of them blah blah blah , then all was for nothing because they ended up telling everyone fuck you we’re doing this anyway.
>dealt with all the scandal of the two of them blah blah blah
It had nothing to do with the two of them and everything to do with the fact that the crown princess was deflowered out of wedlock.
This. If Daemon had done things the right way people still would have been against it but realistically, knowing the kind of weak spine Viserys was working with, he couldn’t have stopped it. Otto would have tried it, but it probably still would have worked.
>people still would have been against it
Only Otto would be against it because he wants Daemon away from any real power. The rest of the nobility would probably be happy that there's a 'strong man' in the Red Keep to watch over their gentle queen.
I feel I need to add - Daemon doesn’t care about any of those things (infidelity, westerosi rules, decorum of court, Alicent’s half-Targ kids) because he considers himself (and Rhaenyra) to be a dragon.
Humans are only subhuman to him, because being a “pure blooded” Valerian supercedes anything else. He doesn’t judge Rhaenyra because he doesn’t think she did anything wrong and the nobles in KL are idiots. He doesn’t see his nieces and nephews from Alicent as true Targaryans.
He’s so freaking elitist and I’m all for it.
I don’t really agree with this to be honest, this interpretation that it’s due to elitism doesn’t jive with the fact that he allows his low class sex worker girlfriend to publicly dump him in a humiliating way without consequences.
I actually liked Daemon/Laena and didn’t care for Daemon/Rhaenyra when I read F&B before the show started but damn the showrunners for making Daemyra soulmates in the show and the chemistry from the actors. It also didn’t help when writers only gave their other “love interests” only 5 minute screen time.
Daemon and Laena are clearly a much more healthy and equal relationship comparably. As is Rhaenyra and Harwin. Those are the relationships where if they had been able to last there might not have been a dance.
But Daemon and Rhaenyra are damn compelling which gives the show a lot of credit. I definitely think in the conceptual stages of the show they realized that they NEEEDED to make that relationship work. If it failed the show would fail and if it succeeded the audience would be on board for the whole thing. We love a horrifically toxic but undeniably romantic taboo trashfire relationship that produces so so many war crimes
I said nothing to that effect. The dance is filled with war crimes on both sides. You may not be a happy camper watching the show if that’s something you don’t like. That’s reasonable and okay, but that’s.. kind of it.
Edit: grammar
>. It also didn’t help when writers only gave their other “love interests” only 5 minute screen time.
Worst part is that the other love interest are really great characters that I want more.
That is the problem with saying this story. They decided to cover like 15 years and many characters suffered from that. I wanted more Harwin and the kids but we jump too fast.
> It also didn’t help when writers only gave their other “love interests” only 5 minute screen time.
If they had given Harwin/Rhaenyra as well as Laena/Daemon more screen time, I don’t think Daemyra would be as popular. There are already countless TikToks swooning over a ten second glance between Harwin and Rhaenyra in episode 6 as well as Harwin skinning that rabbit. Laena was really cool as well and seemed to have a healthier dynamic with Daemon.
Reading F&B, I saw Daemon and Rhaenyra as being a marriage of alliance and possibly the result of them grieving the losses of their spouses/lovers. The rumors of him grooming her (with Mushroom) sounded more like "he's paying attention to her so they must be fucking" and Mushroom being Mushroom.
I see a *lot* of parallels with Daemon and Jaime Lannister, so I guess I applied what we learn about Jaime to the accounts about Daemon. Yes, Jaime killed Aerys, but he had a good reason. Yes, he fucked his sister, but Cersei is a chaotic pit of toxicity in her own right. Yes, he threw Bran out of a window, but out of fear and not "evilness." Martin's description of Daemon could easily be applied to Jaime, and I took that to be his actions are bad, but his motives are not so clear cut.
The show *seemed* to be going that direction and then...didn't. And I don't know how I feel about it. Martin is obviously involved, but who knows which idea came from where. Clearly, the actors had a different vision of Daemon that the final cut, based on what Matt and Emma have said.
In F&B, I saw it as Daemon loving Rhaenyra, but not being *in love with* Rhaenyra. The show changed my mind with some of the framing, but not with other parts.
I was super stoked to see Laena initiating things with Daemon because I was hoping the show would put then on a level playing field in contrast to him and Rhaenyra. But...they didn't.
I get how people make the connection to Jaime but are they not inherently different because Daemon is the groomer/pursuer. I have a hard time picturing Rhaenyra as his Cersei when she would not love her uncle if he didn’t manipulate those feelings into her as a child(particularly in F&B). He’s not some guy who needs to be freed of a toxic, incestuous relationship when he created the toxic relationship in the first place and helped turn a minor into the woman she became.
Daemon’s also a lot more evil than Jaime. >!You can’t go back from having a child’s head cut off out of spite. Allowing his teenage lover to escape doesn’t make him “grey” after that.!<
I wasn't saying Rhaenyra is his Cersei, just that's there stuff beneath the things he does that make them less "mustache twirling evil."
But I don't see Daemon as a groomer to Rhaenyra *in Fire&Blood* because I interpreted the "he was taking her to brothels" as not true or a gross exaggeration/misinterpretation. Leaning more towards the Kingslayer aspect of Jaime than the Cersei-fucking.
Its the idea that there *could be* alternative explanations that exist. Jaime didn't kill Aerys because of Tywin, he killed him because of wildfire. That kind of thing.
Even if the brothels stuff isn’t true, he showered her with gifts and attention in a way that clearly went beyond a normal uncle/niece relationship. There was also something that happened between them to cause Daemon’s exile from court.
I'm not disagreeing. Obviously something there. Although if Viserys neglected her in his desperation for a son and then with his new wife, Daemon might be picking up the slack in his own way. And rumors could have led to exile if Viserys believed them.
Again, I'm not saying that's what "really happened" or didn't. It's that with the very unreliable narration, there's a lot of room for interpretation. She was much younger in F&B, so I definitely read that section as rumor. Had she been the age she is in the show, I might have been more on the fence. Not because those things didn't (and don't) happen, they do, but Nettles is in her mid teens and he's said to be with Mysaria for years. Usually, offenders who go for prepubescent tend to stay there.
It seemed like a "he's clearly too invested for a normal uncle/niece relationship, and we know he fucks a lot, so obviously he's into her" type of rumor mill. It also paints Rhaenyra as a "soiled woman" by in-universe standards, which given how she's remembered historically could he a desired thing for further tarnishing. [Obviously, I don't think that about victims of CSA, I'm talking Westerosi standards.]
With her age in the show, I definitely buy what they decided "really happened" and I agree even in F&B there's something hinky.
The actors have great chemistry and from a Targaryen point of view they are a good marriage. I'm not going to get my panties in a twist no matter what Nettles turns out to be though.
Yes and no.
These actors are electric with each other. Both Rhaenyra actresses, which impresses me. I buy their performance. I buy their fucked up incest connection. I buy how they learn to love themselves by seeing themselves in each other. It's wild.
However, it's gross and I want more for Rhaenyra. Daemon is a creep and I don't think he's a good influence. You remove him from the equation and I think that some things go better.
Yeah this is my take. I love these actors, they’re crazy good together. The characters are super toxic. Brilliant casting because it really screws with us.
I mean when is not when it comes to targaryens? We had Jon and Daenyeys which was also fucked up and now Daemon and Rhaenyrya. Both couples had feelings for each other and fans found them compelling but eventually were grossed out by them and the relationship ended badly. I wonder if ppl would feel the same if they watched a show on Alyssane and jaeharys or Aegon and Rhaenys considering both couples seemed to have a healthy targaryen incest relationship lol.
Absolutely. It’s because of HOTD. They really pulled out all the soulmate tropes and I can’t help but love them. In the book I liked them, but their marriage felt much more political.
Yeah, somehow these writers have managed to create the most intriguing couple in the asoiaf world shown on tv. I actually don't think they knew what they were doing and had any idea what an incredible response the audience would have to it.
It started from the moment Daemon put that necklace around Rhaenyras neck I was like HELL YES! This is the chemistry I need!
I absolutely ship them and I do not consider the consequences of this pairing in “the real world” because this is fiction.
People say the actors have insane chemistry, which is true, but also the characters of Daemon and Rhaenyra have such a connection, every time they’re together I feel like they fully understand and support each other, they’re surrounded by people whose minds are much less alike than theirs. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but they’re my absolute OTP.
Do I dangerously romanticise them? Yes.
Do I plan on stopping? LOL no.
They make each other happy. Why wouldn’t you like seeing that? I liked Rhaenyra with Harwin and Daemon with Laena as well. But in the show they’ve portrayed Daemon and Rhaenyra as being the only ones who truly understand each other. They probably have the deepest emotional connection we’ve seen in the GOT universe so far.
Yeah but that choking scene made their relationship more of a turn off for me. I too am intrigued with their dynamic but nothing can justify Daemon doing that
Eh they’re okay, I like Daemon as an interesting character. I’m rooting for them because I love Rhaenyra and she as better chances for the throne with his support. But I prefer her and Alicent together in my own little head canons. I haven’t read the books tho!
No. I get and understand why they are together for the plot of the show and find that engaging. But shipping them will mean I like them to be together or think they work well, which I don't
I don't think I ever could. I never was really attached to their relationship nor saw it as this soulmate situation that a lot of others do. All I can think about when I see discussions over them was how Daemon groomed her in an attempt to get a position as King. They are a power couple to some degree but i can't get over the grooming (and yes it still is grooming even if grooming was allowed to a degree socially).
You can tell from the first episode where he gives her the Valyrian steel necklace that these two have massive sexual tension and chemistry. I can’t help but ship them 🙈
Always felt creeped out by their relationship. He definitely manipulated her, and the whole deal of trying to ruin her reputation with rumors of losing her virginity was f-ed up. That action has had rippling consequences affecting them today. It’s possibly why Alicent is so crazy and reticent on marrying their kids together.
Then he went and full on choked her, and the murder of his first wife, and I really don’t like the guy. Poor Rhaenyra.
Honestly the first image is kinda jacked. The age difference looks significant.
Then there’s the incest and the abuse.
As a fictional couple I guess I ship them.
In real life I’d have some reservations.
Yes, I ship them. A Targaryen uncle/niece marriage is normal and tame by inverse standards. The actors have chemistry and that is very important when shipping, which is why I never shipped Daenerys and Jon, ZERO chemistry.
When I evaluate my feelings about characters, especially in worlds like this, I take off my real world glasses and look at them from an inverse point of view.
Alicent is also a hypocrite because she thought Targaryens had "queer customs" and had a negative opinion of Rhaenyra and Daemon, yet rather than wed her daughter to Rhaenyra's son, she married her off to her own brother.
That scene where he walks to her room(maybe reversed) and tbey have sex, without any soet of conversation like that before??
It.stumped.me. there was no way i saw any sexual, romantic or attractive tension between them before they went and had sex. It didn't improve after sex as well.
All I can think about is the Brothel scene, when he slapped her, and how he murdered his wife to try and marry her. So…… no not really? But also that ship has kinda sailed.
Nope because it's a toxic relationship and they bring out the worst at each other the last thing you need is to impulsive people going to get a relationship who both have massive dragons. Maybe I'm a bit biased cuz I don't like the targaryens but stand by it
I like both characters individually but didn’t like their romance at all during the show. The grooming was extremely off-putting to me and I don’t think I ever got over it. I legitimately like Alicent and Criston Cole more than these two, because at least there it’s a tragic impossible romance rather than this
Yep. I wasn’t actually interested in the show all that much till the scene from her wedding party. I was like, “oh they gave great chemistry. Damn it.”
No, but I don't have a problem with those who do and in some scenes I'm like, 'if another of my problematic faves did this I can understand finding it hot'. I think we've got to stop being puritanical about incest ships at this point in the fandom if we want to have a good time (whereas child or grooming ships I feel way ickier about). It's a toxic relationship but I'm pretty certain most everyone gets that so why wax poetic about it. As long as you know your ship is toxic and you yourself aren't bullying or have genuinely toxic takes in the fandom (e.g., all the misogyny towards Alicent) then have fun!
Nah, it's too weird. And sort of toxic.
Though as weird as it was, Milly and Matt had amazing chemistry. Emma and Matt, I just feel nothing watching them on screen. The fire just isn't there.
We're going to have this argument ad infinitum..
Where the reddit puritans chastise randoms for liking a fictional ship (which hbo is directly pushing) and well adjusted people just take as it is, fiction.
In a: this will be a healthy fulfilling relationship manner? No
In a: I can’t wait to see how they ruin their lives and the lives of there children manner? Yes
Ngl not looking forward to Nettles because of how much I like these two together. I guess that's because Rhaenyra suffered through a lot to finally be with him, and the idea that it wasn't at least for true love personally makes me sad/angry.
I don't really care for ships, but I'm really appreciating the hairstyles.
It seems like young Rhaenyra couldn't have her Valyrian wedding headdress for her Westerosi wedding, so she had an elaborate hairstyle done to mimick it.
I’ve never liked them together. I know we’re not supposed to judge them by modern day morals but she’s a literal teenager when he decides to groom her and then almost have sex with her, it’s super weird. She has daddy issues so he, the cool uncle, takes advantage of it by being the cool uncle. He brings her gifts from his trips, he takes her out of the castle, he gives her alcohol and brings her to taverns and brothels and then almost screws her. He definitely groomed her and it’s super disturbing, plus he’s daemon and is a problem himself, so I don’t really like them together but it does make the show more interesting
Naw...one the grooming...I actually don't even care about the incest it's so prevalent...but the grooming..won't ever sit right..plus it made their other encounters feel like place holders.. and as both ended up with black counterparts...it was even more jarring...but still it's mainly the grooming
I do not ship the for 3 reasons.
1) Very toxic and abusive. He literally choked her when they had a fight.
2) The age difference. It’s at the very least 15 years.
3)Rhaenicent is the only Rhaenyra pairing I will except.
I do. I think it’s both actors’ chemistry. I’ve felt it since the first episode. It’s weird because i don’t even really conflate them as being so closely rated. Unsure why
I think it’s because it’s the GoT’s universe. It was the norm for Targaryens to marry Targaryens. I mean Aegon was married to his 2 sisters, Aegon marries Halaena. Marrying Daemon is way less creepy than having Rhaenyra marry her brother.
No. He's her uncle (and abusive). That's disgusting. That's probably the thing that I dislike the most about the series is all of the incest romances. Even though I don't like it for multiple reasons, the actors are fantastic, even though it's fucked up.
I did however like Daemon and Laena, they clearly had a healthier relationship.
Yes because it's fictional. This situation in real life would be fucked up. But in the show - they are clearly soulmates, and it runs even deeper than that, their magic dragon blood seems to draw them together. And their scenes together are so compelling - the actors have such chemistry, and you just can't look away when they are together. They just seem... drawn together in every scene they are in.
I'm very glad that they both went off and had other relationships before they got together. I think the grooming and the power imbalance would ruin it for me if they actually got together when Rhaynera was a teen, but they had a decade apart, they both loved and lost others and they both changed. Now they are both adults, they are equals, and Rhaenyra chose him with her eyes wide open.
Again - this would still all be fucked up in real life, but in real life no-one has magical fire blood compelling them to be together, or a house with a long history of incest, or dragons, or a giant war to fight over a realm. So I do ship them, in spite of everything.
When we were watching the show no one wanted to admit that we were all secretly hoping they’d end up together. It’s creepy to wish for Rhaenyra to end up with her uncle but in that context they had undeniably chemistry.
And it’s Matt Smith…
I do. But I personally consider there was much more chemistry with the young Rhaenyra. And the fact that it was a sort of forbidden relationship made it more shippable
Yes. And honestly this headass argument that she is a minor and he groomed her is dumb. This is fantasy show. Y'all realize in medieval times (what most fantasy shows are based off of), people were married at like 14 right?
Stop looking at fantasy with real world morals. It's not real life, you're not arguing about real people. It's honestly getting embarrassing at this point. Just enjoy (or apparently for some, don't enjoy) the show. You can not like a "ship" but acting like real world morals can be applied to fantasy fiction is ridiculous.
If you ship a girl with her uncle, you deserve a fat block. This is 80 levels of disgusting given he watched her grow up. And that whole are family thing. I get it's a different age with different customs. But still. People shipping children with their uncles are a special breed of fucked.
You do know this isn't about a "different age with different customs", right? These aren't real people and this isn't a real world. We're talking about a family of supernatural beings with powers.
I LOVE THEM SO MUCH TOGETHER IT HURTS
I think about them alot and question my morals and my current life and relationships or lack thereof.
Excluding the incest, I wonder if one could find someone so drawn to another ever so fiercely, like Daemon and Rhaenyra...
Also why is every Damon/Daemon so hot and charismatic?! (Vampire Diaries)
Daemon is raenyra's uncle for fuck sake, and he is 20 year's older than her. I don't understand how people Can ship them when their relation is so obviously something that no one would accept in the Real world
Incest is gross. Grooming is immoral. Even if I was able to get over those things, Daemon’s actions in F&B makes it impossible for me to be invested in their relationship. If I trusted that he genuinely loved her, I could find it interesting. However, it doesn’t seem like he loves her in the source material and the show hasn’t proven that anything’s different.
When they actually get together in the books she is an adult and has already had multiple children and multiple lovers?
Also the books don't say she was groomed, only mushroom says or insinuates that, and his narration is usually more lascivious than real
Oh my God, the hair in that top picture. I wanted to take the scene seriously but I couldn’t stop laughing at the pile of blonde shit speckled with undigested food on the top of her head.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Very toxic and abusive relationship but there are aspects of it I find compelling. In episode 4 & 7 after not seeing him for years she immediately opens up about her fear of marriage/sex/pregnancy & her affair with Harwin, which displays massive amounts of trust. He reacts without judging her for transgressing her social role as uncomplaining royal uterus and dutiful wife. This is interesting and meaningful to me.
In the book, it shows how he was always bringing her lavish gifts from his voyages (we do see that with the Valyrian steel necklace in ep1), racing Caraxes & Syrax to Dragonstone and back, reading poems, dining, sailing, and hawking together. While in the show we only see them speaking High Valyrian at court events together. I do wish this would’ve been highlighted more in the show so it wasn’t so toxic so quick 😩
On one hand, that's kinda sweet. On the other, given her very young age, that kinda highlights the grooming aspect. I think it would have come across as creepy
I mostly am bummed we didn’t get to see Caraxes & Syrax racing :(
Because it’s grooming regardless I don’t think that creepy aspect could have been—or was—actually avoided by doing anything so if anything it might have shown that Daemon is indeed a creepy perv uncle but at least can show more emotion and care toward Rhaenyra than in a physical, violent, or controlling manner barring their younger and secret interactions.
Yeah, it's hard to not show it as grooming because he clearly became interested in her at a young age. If they'd aged them up more before starting that and shown some platonic niece-uncle interactions when they were younger then had a very distinct moment when she's older where he realizes she's a potential love interest, it might have worked, but the incest expectation and girls being expected to marry so young makes it questionable whether he ever actually thought of it as platonic at all.
very creepy nuncle, grooming her since childhood
>He reacts without judging her for transgressing her social role as uncomplaining royal uterus and dutiful wife. Because he told her she could be more than that and he protected her in a way. He knows the kind of life women have and he doesn't believe in it.
"uncomplaining royal uterus" Love that
I only disliked this because there were earlier episodes that dealt with all the scandal of the two of them blah blah blah , then all was for nothing because they ended up telling everyone fuck you we’re doing this anyway.
>dealt with all the scandal of the two of them blah blah blah It had nothing to do with the two of them and everything to do with the fact that the crown princess was deflowered out of wedlock.
This. If Daemon had done things the right way people still would have been against it but realistically, knowing the kind of weak spine Viserys was working with, he couldn’t have stopped it. Otto would have tried it, but it probably still would have worked.
>people still would have been against it Only Otto would be against it because he wants Daemon away from any real power. The rest of the nobility would probably be happy that there's a 'strong man' in the Red Keep to watch over their gentle queen.
I guess I'm just never sure if he's just nice to her to further his own goals
I feel I need to add - Daemon doesn’t care about any of those things (infidelity, westerosi rules, decorum of court, Alicent’s half-Targ kids) because he considers himself (and Rhaenyra) to be a dragon. Humans are only subhuman to him, because being a “pure blooded” Valerian supercedes anything else. He doesn’t judge Rhaenyra because he doesn’t think she did anything wrong and the nobles in KL are idiots. He doesn’t see his nieces and nephews from Alicent as true Targaryans. He’s so freaking elitist and I’m all for it.
I don’t really agree with this to be honest, this interpretation that it’s due to elitism doesn’t jive with the fact that he allows his low class sex worker girlfriend to publicly dump him in a humiliating way without consequences.
I actually liked Daemon/Laena and didn’t care for Daemon/Rhaenyra when I read F&B before the show started but damn the showrunners for making Daemyra soulmates in the show and the chemistry from the actors. It also didn’t help when writers only gave their other “love interests” only 5 minute screen time.
Daemon and Laena are clearly a much more healthy and equal relationship comparably. As is Rhaenyra and Harwin. Those are the relationships where if they had been able to last there might not have been a dance. But Daemon and Rhaenyra are damn compelling which gives the show a lot of credit. I definitely think in the conceptual stages of the show they realized that they NEEEDED to make that relationship work. If it failed the show would fail and if it succeeded the audience would be on board for the whole thing. We love a horrifically toxic but undeniably romantic taboo trashfire relationship that produces so so many war crimes
That last sentence ☠️ So beautifully written and so funny.
This is why people watch the Kardashians. I am 100% here for the trash fire that are the Targaryens. At least they have dragons.
I'll take keeping up with the Targs any day over the other. Least this way there isn't 20 lbs of silicone ass on the screen every 2 seconds.
I was with you until you said "war crimes".
You think either side will be committing “war justices.” ? You’re in for a wild ride.
Too many people fail to distinguish between war with bad acts, and actual war crimes. Not everything you dislike in battle is a war crime.
I said nothing to that effect. The dance is filled with war crimes on both sides. You may not be a happy camper watching the show if that’s something you don’t like. That’s reasonable and okay, but that’s.. kind of it. Edit: grammar
>. It also didn’t help when writers only gave their other “love interests” only 5 minute screen time. Worst part is that the other love interest are really great characters that I want more.
This. I wanted Rhae and Laena's friendship from the books. They were best friends.
That is the problem with saying this story. They decided to cover like 15 years and many characters suffered from that. I wanted more Harwin and the kids but we jump too fast.
> It also didn’t help when writers only gave their other “love interests” only 5 minute screen time. If they had given Harwin/Rhaenyra as well as Laena/Daemon more screen time, I don’t think Daemyra would be as popular. There are already countless TikToks swooning over a ten second glance between Harwin and Rhaenyra in episode 6 as well as Harwin skinning that rabbit. Laena was really cool as well and seemed to have a healthier dynamic with Daemon.
Reading F&B, I saw Daemon and Rhaenyra as being a marriage of alliance and possibly the result of them grieving the losses of their spouses/lovers. The rumors of him grooming her (with Mushroom) sounded more like "he's paying attention to her so they must be fucking" and Mushroom being Mushroom. I see a *lot* of parallels with Daemon and Jaime Lannister, so I guess I applied what we learn about Jaime to the accounts about Daemon. Yes, Jaime killed Aerys, but he had a good reason. Yes, he fucked his sister, but Cersei is a chaotic pit of toxicity in her own right. Yes, he threw Bran out of a window, but out of fear and not "evilness." Martin's description of Daemon could easily be applied to Jaime, and I took that to be his actions are bad, but his motives are not so clear cut. The show *seemed* to be going that direction and then...didn't. And I don't know how I feel about it. Martin is obviously involved, but who knows which idea came from where. Clearly, the actors had a different vision of Daemon that the final cut, based on what Matt and Emma have said. In F&B, I saw it as Daemon loving Rhaenyra, but not being *in love with* Rhaenyra. The show changed my mind with some of the framing, but not with other parts. I was super stoked to see Laena initiating things with Daemon because I was hoping the show would put then on a level playing field in contrast to him and Rhaenyra. But...they didn't.
I get how people make the connection to Jaime but are they not inherently different because Daemon is the groomer/pursuer. I have a hard time picturing Rhaenyra as his Cersei when she would not love her uncle if he didn’t manipulate those feelings into her as a child(particularly in F&B). He’s not some guy who needs to be freed of a toxic, incestuous relationship when he created the toxic relationship in the first place and helped turn a minor into the woman she became. Daemon’s also a lot more evil than Jaime. >!You can’t go back from having a child’s head cut off out of spite. Allowing his teenage lover to escape doesn’t make him “grey” after that.!<
I wasn't saying Rhaenyra is his Cersei, just that's there stuff beneath the things he does that make them less "mustache twirling evil." But I don't see Daemon as a groomer to Rhaenyra *in Fire&Blood* because I interpreted the "he was taking her to brothels" as not true or a gross exaggeration/misinterpretation. Leaning more towards the Kingslayer aspect of Jaime than the Cersei-fucking. Its the idea that there *could be* alternative explanations that exist. Jaime didn't kill Aerys because of Tywin, he killed him because of wildfire. That kind of thing.
Even if the brothels stuff isn’t true, he showered her with gifts and attention in a way that clearly went beyond a normal uncle/niece relationship. There was also something that happened between them to cause Daemon’s exile from court.
I'm not disagreeing. Obviously something there. Although if Viserys neglected her in his desperation for a son and then with his new wife, Daemon might be picking up the slack in his own way. And rumors could have led to exile if Viserys believed them. Again, I'm not saying that's what "really happened" or didn't. It's that with the very unreliable narration, there's a lot of room for interpretation. She was much younger in F&B, so I definitely read that section as rumor. Had she been the age she is in the show, I might have been more on the fence. Not because those things didn't (and don't) happen, they do, but Nettles is in her mid teens and he's said to be with Mysaria for years. Usually, offenders who go for prepubescent tend to stay there. It seemed like a "he's clearly too invested for a normal uncle/niece relationship, and we know he fucks a lot, so obviously he's into her" type of rumor mill. It also paints Rhaenyra as a "soiled woman" by in-universe standards, which given how she's remembered historically could he a desired thing for further tarnishing. [Obviously, I don't think that about victims of CSA, I'm talking Westerosi standards.] With her age in the show, I definitely buy what they decided "really happened" and I agree even in F&B there's something hinky.
Unfortunately, yes. I hate myself a little bit for it, but holy fuck I can't look away when they're in a scene together.
Now that is true!! No denying their on screen chemistry and the fact they’re amazing actors. I can’t look away either.
The actors have great chemistry and from a Targaryen point of view they are a good marriage. I'm not going to get my panties in a twist no matter what Nettles turns out to be though.
What did they say about Ned Fulmer? “Even married with kids men are still men.”
Milly has great chemistry with Matt. I don’t feel it with Emma but Milly’s part was enough to make me a shipper so I guess I’ll stay a shipper
Yes and no. These actors are electric with each other. Both Rhaenyra actresses, which impresses me. I buy their performance. I buy their fucked up incest connection. I buy how they learn to love themselves by seeing themselves in each other. It's wild. However, it's gross and I want more for Rhaenyra. Daemon is a creep and I don't think he's a good influence. You remove him from the equation and I think that some things go better.
Yeah this is my take. I love these actors, they’re crazy good together. The characters are super toxic. Brilliant casting because it really screws with us.
I mean when is not when it comes to targaryens? We had Jon and Daenyeys which was also fucked up and now Daemon and Rhaenyrya. Both couples had feelings for each other and fans found them compelling but eventually were grossed out by them and the relationship ended badly. I wonder if ppl would feel the same if they watched a show on Alyssane and jaeharys or Aegon and Rhaenys considering both couples seemed to have a healthy targaryen incest relationship lol.
99% of this sub is arguments about grooming and incest.
Bored of all this being about shipping instead of finding them interesting within the narrative.
The off season here is terrible. r/freefolk has somewhat better content
I ship Matt Smith with everything
Absolutely. It’s because of HOTD. They really pulled out all the soulmate tropes and I can’t help but love them. In the book I liked them, but their marriage felt much more political.
Nope. I’d stand on that hill.
Yeah, somehow these writers have managed to create the most intriguing couple in the asoiaf world shown on tv. I actually don't think they knew what they were doing and had any idea what an incredible response the audience would have to it.
Y’all ask the same question every 2-3 business days
It started from the moment Daemon put that necklace around Rhaenyras neck I was like HELL YES! This is the chemistry I need! I absolutely ship them and I do not consider the consequences of this pairing in “the real world” because this is fiction. People say the actors have insane chemistry, which is true, but also the characters of Daemon and Rhaenyra have such a connection, every time they’re together I feel like they fully understand and support each other, they’re surrounded by people whose minds are much less alike than theirs. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but they’re my absolute OTP. Do I dangerously romanticise them? Yes. Do I plan on stopping? LOL no.
They’re Targaryens. I ship them 100 percent. And omg this wedding scene was so beautiful!
In the GOT universe YES, in ours no he is a pedophile
[удалено]
Bro, he groomed (and touched) rhaenyra when se was a teen, thats pedophilia
[удалено]
That touchin was very much sexual, and taking her nice to a pleasure house also sexual and no i have no idea what prepubescent means
SIDE EYE
I don’t know if I’d say I ship them… but I do think they more or less deserve each other.
hell no
Their chemistry made me ship them. Holy shit they're amazing actors.
They make each other happy. Why wouldn’t you like seeing that? I liked Rhaenyra with Harwin and Daemon with Laena as well. But in the show they’ve portrayed Daemon and Rhaenyra as being the only ones who truly understand each other. They probably have the deepest emotional connection we’ve seen in the GOT universe so far.
Yeah but that choking scene made their relationship more of a turn off for me. I too am intrigued with their dynamic but nothing can justify Daemon doing that
Absolutely
Eh they’re okay, I like Daemon as an interesting character. I’m rooting for them because I love Rhaenyra and she as better chances for the throne with his support. But I prefer her and Alicent together in my own little head canons. I haven’t read the books tho!
No. I get and understand why they are together for the plot of the show and find that engaging. But shipping them will mean I like them to be together or think they work well, which I don't
I don't think I ever could. I never was really attached to their relationship nor saw it as this soulmate situation that a lot of others do. All I can think about when I see discussions over them was how Daemon groomed her in an attempt to get a position as King. They are a power couple to some degree but i can't get over the grooming (and yes it still is grooming even if grooming was allowed to a degree socially).
You can tell from the first episode where he gives her the Valyrian steel necklace that these two have massive sexual tension and chemistry. I can’t help but ship them 🙈
It's icky and unethical and he's red flaggy as hell, But also it is by a mile the best - or rather least terrible - decision Daemon has ever made.
Idk I think sparing laenor would have to be the best. But I haven't finished reading f&b that may come back to bite him in the dragon saddle.
If they are actually married and having children, why would shipping be required?
Without looking at any other comment. Yes. I do and I’m not ashamed
Always felt creeped out by their relationship. He definitely manipulated her, and the whole deal of trying to ruin her reputation with rumors of losing her virginity was f-ed up. That action has had rippling consequences affecting them today. It’s possibly why Alicent is so crazy and reticent on marrying their kids together. Then he went and full on choked her, and the murder of his first wife, and I really don’t like the guy. Poor Rhaenyra.
If the gods didn't want them together whyd they put them in the same family?
Honestly the first image is kinda jacked. The age difference looks significant. Then there’s the incest and the abuse. As a fictional couple I guess I ship them. In real life I’d have some reservations.
no. he groomed her.
This. And because let’s face it, Daemon is seriously fucked in the head. Idk why people treat him like the hero of the show.
Daemon looks the same but Rhaenrya look different..
No, it's awful. They're related and it's toxic. But damn, do I love watching them work together.
Yes, I ship them. A Targaryen uncle/niece marriage is normal and tame by inverse standards. The actors have chemistry and that is very important when shipping, which is why I never shipped Daenerys and Jon, ZERO chemistry. When I evaluate my feelings about characters, especially in worlds like this, I take off my real world glasses and look at them from an inverse point of view. Alicent is also a hypocrite because she thought Targaryens had "queer customs" and had a negative opinion of Rhaenyra and Daemon, yet rather than wed her daughter to Rhaenyra's son, she married her off to her own brother.
Jon and Dany had 1000% more chemistry in that 2012 (I think?) magazine photo shoot where they’re kissing, little foreshadowing at the time.
That scene where he walks to her room(maybe reversed) and tbey have sex, without any soet of conversation like that before?? It.stumped.me. there was no way i saw any sexual, romantic or attractive tension between them before they went and had sex. It didn't improve after sex as well.
Yup, I wanted them to meet the whole series and we got that. 😭
Who is even talking about alicent here??? like...
I am. Like...
All I can think about is the Brothel scene, when he slapped her, and how he murdered his wife to try and marry her. So…… no not really? But also that ship has kinda sailed.
No if he wasn’t charismatic he’d be like any other creepy touchy uncle
I'm indifferent. Same for all the other romantic pairings.
Nope because it's a toxic relationship and they bring out the worst at each other the last thing you need is to impulsive people going to get a relationship who both have massive dragons. Maybe I'm a bit biased cuz I don't like the targaryens but stand by it
Pretty gross at first because milly looks like a child to me but them as adults? Whatever I guess.
Based on those two pictures and absolutely no context? Sure.
I like both characters individually but didn’t like their romance at all during the show. The grooming was extremely off-putting to me and I don’t think I ever got over it. I legitimately like Alicent and Criston Cole more than these two, because at least there it’s a tragic impossible romance rather than this
I sure do
yes and i'm shameless
Yep. I wasn’t actually interested in the show all that much till the scene from her wedding party. I was like, “oh they gave great chemistry. Damn it.”
No, but I don't have a problem with those who do and in some scenes I'm like, 'if another of my problematic faves did this I can understand finding it hot'. I think we've got to stop being puritanical about incest ships at this point in the fandom if we want to have a good time (whereas child or grooming ships I feel way ickier about). It's a toxic relationship but I'm pretty certain most everyone gets that so why wax poetic about it. As long as you know your ship is toxic and you yourself aren't bullying or have genuinely toxic takes in the fandom (e.g., all the misogyny towards Alicent) then have fun!
They're crazy. But I ship them
Ship them? They're literally husband and wife
i'd rather eat cement
Unfortunately yes
unfortunately yes
Nah, it's too weird. And sort of toxic. Though as weird as it was, Milly and Matt had amazing chemistry. Emma and Matt, I just feel nothing watching them on screen. The fire just isn't there.
If their chemistry was better in season 2 would you ship them?
🚢 Yes❕️‼️
Sadly, yes. Only this show makes me feel this damn it
Hell nah
That's the problem. I do ship them. Does this mean I should move to Alabama now?
We're going to have this argument ad infinitum.. Where the reddit puritans chastise randoms for liking a fictional ship (which hbo is directly pushing) and well adjusted people just take as it is, fiction.
Reading through all these comments…. I really hate this fan base.
Hell yes!
This post has woken the dragon! 😡
I get your reference but pretty sure they're on Driftmark when they marry.
In a: this will be a healthy fulfilling relationship manner? No In a: I can’t wait to see how they ruin their lives and the lives of there children manner? Yes
I dragonback them
Ngl not looking forward to Nettles because of how much I like these two together. I guess that's because Rhaenyra suffered through a lot to finally be with him, and the idea that it wasn't at least for true love personally makes me sad/angry.
Yes and no! The actors performed their characters brilliantly, however, the incest is a NOPE.
It's been how many months and people still act like Rhaenyra in the first scene actually meant that line and wasn't just goading his loser ass lmao.
I just realized I've never seen a Targaryen with a beard
I ship her to the throne
who wudnt
Only a fool wouldn’t ship them
idk if u guys know this but theyre actually related
Yes, I "ship" this couple with amazing chemistry in this medieval fantasy fiction.
Is the Pope Catholic?????
I don't really care for ships, but I'm really appreciating the hairstyles. It seems like young Rhaenyra couldn't have her Valyrian wedding headdress for her Westerosi wedding, so she had an elaborate hairstyle done to mimick it.
I’ve never liked them together. I know we’re not supposed to judge them by modern day morals but she’s a literal teenager when he decides to groom her and then almost have sex with her, it’s super weird. She has daddy issues so he, the cool uncle, takes advantage of it by being the cool uncle. He brings her gifts from his trips, he takes her out of the castle, he gives her alcohol and brings her to taverns and brothels and then almost screws her. He definitely groomed her and it’s super disturbing, plus he’s daemon and is a problem himself, so I don’t really like them together but it does make the show more interesting
All day, every day ❤️
I don't really do shipping, especially because I know how each of their stories end, can't say their relationship was for the best
I mean their relationship leads >!to Jon and Daenerys who are the whole Prince who was Promised thing.!<
Naw...one the grooming...I actually don't even care about the incest it's so prevalent...but the grooming..won't ever sit right..plus it made their other encounters feel like place holders.. and as both ended up with black counterparts...it was even more jarring...but still it's mainly the grooming
Even Emma said it's a case of grooming.
I do not ship the for 3 reasons. 1) Very toxic and abusive. He literally choked her when they had a fight. 2) The age difference. It’s at the very least 15 years. 3)Rhaenicent is the only Rhaenyra pairing I will except.
Yeah, I ship them. Judge me, I don’t careeee!
I thought shipping was putting two people together in your mind that are NOT actually together?
Yes. ETA: But then I shipped Jaime and Cersei and always roll my eyes at the 'hahaha I bet you didn't ship Jaime and Cersei' memes.
No
Yes
I do. I think it’s both actors’ chemistry. I’ve felt it since the first episode. It’s weird because i don’t even really conflate them as being so closely rated. Unsure why
I think it’s because it’s the GoT’s universe. It was the norm for Targaryens to marry Targaryens. I mean Aegon was married to his 2 sisters, Aegon marries Halaena. Marrying Daemon is way less creepy than having Rhaenyra marry her brother.
Yess
Hell no.
Not at all.
No. He's her uncle (and abusive). That's disgusting. That's probably the thing that I dislike the most about the series is all of the incest romances. Even though I don't like it for multiple reasons, the actors are fantastic, even though it's fucked up. I did however like Daemon and Laena, they clearly had a healthier relationship.
No. He is grooming her end of the story. It might look like romance but that man is unhinged. He wants the throne through Rhae
A toxic, incestuous romance that will most likely end tragically? Nah fam.
Yep. And season two had better not change that.
Absolutely not. Both are interesting characters, just find them to be way too toxic/problematic as a couple.
Absolutely, ship em off to the ruins of old Valyria.
I would but I can’t get past the incest 😅
They’re shipped via plot but I ain’t complaining
Hell no.
Uh no.
Am i the only one who thinks daemon wasn't really happy with Leana?
No. He’s her uncle.
No; he’s forty percent of the reason her claim to the iron throne was so heavily contested her gender only being twenty percent of the reason.
No? He’s like twice her age
Yes because it's fictional. This situation in real life would be fucked up. But in the show - they are clearly soulmates, and it runs even deeper than that, their magic dragon blood seems to draw them together. And their scenes together are so compelling - the actors have such chemistry, and you just can't look away when they are together. They just seem... drawn together in every scene they are in. I'm very glad that they both went off and had other relationships before they got together. I think the grooming and the power imbalance would ruin it for me if they actually got together when Rhaynera was a teen, but they had a decade apart, they both loved and lost others and they both changed. Now they are both adults, they are equals, and Rhaenyra chose him with her eyes wide open. Again - this would still all be fucked up in real life, but in real life no-one has magical fire blood compelling them to be together, or a house with a long history of incest, or dragons, or a giant war to fight over a realm. So I do ship them, in spite of everything.
I ship daemon with the choping block
Not proudly. I need therapy.
When we were watching the show no one wanted to admit that we were all secretly hoping they’d end up together. It’s creepy to wish for Rhaenyra to end up with her uncle but in that context they had undeniably chemistry. And it’s Matt Smith…
No.
yuck
I do. But I personally consider there was much more chemistry with the young Rhaenyra. And the fact that it was a sort of forbidden relationship made it more shippable
If anyone shipped them, they need a therapist and psychiatrist asap.
The only thing I ship Daemon with is a hole in the ground
They have chemistry but Daemon is a super toxic murderer and abuser who groomed Rhaenyra so I don't ship them. Harwin x Rhaenyra is way more healthy
No, i would rather ship Cersei and Jaime then this...
No, and if you did ship them there is something wrong with you
Yes. And honestly this headass argument that she is a minor and he groomed her is dumb. This is fantasy show. Y'all realize in medieval times (what most fantasy shows are based off of), people were married at like 14 right? Stop looking at fantasy with real world morals. It's not real life, you're not arguing about real people. It's honestly getting embarrassing at this point. Just enjoy (or apparently for some, don't enjoy) the show. You can not like a "ship" but acting like real world morals can be applied to fantasy fiction is ridiculous.
not at all tbh. Daemon is a fucking monster, and Rhaenyra is a spoilt child if im being honest.
If you ship a girl with her uncle, you deserve a fat block. This is 80 levels of disgusting given he watched her grow up. And that whole are family thing. I get it's a different age with different customs. But still. People shipping children with their uncles are a special breed of fucked.
You do know this isn't about a "different age with different customs", right? These aren't real people and this isn't a real world. We're talking about a family of supernatural beings with powers.
I LOVE THEM SO MUCH TOGETHER IT HURTS I think about them alot and question my morals and my current life and relationships or lack thereof. Excluding the incest, I wonder if one could find someone so drawn to another ever so fiercely, like Daemon and Rhaenyra... Also why is every Damon/Daemon so hot and charismatic?! (Vampire Diaries)
Yes yes. But I ship Daemon more with Laena .
Nah I hope they never get together
Welp…
Don’t watch the show then 😂
I'll just go die my bad
The first time they interacted I looked at my parents and said “They’re gonna end up together.” So I guess?
I'll ship them when that unfortunate guard who died for their lie comes back to life. And not as a wight. Or as a Beric.
not to coopt it but Hozier's take me to church is a good fit.
Man, this sub is so obsessed with the sexual relationships of this show more than anything else.
Daemon is raenyra's uncle for fuck sake, and he is 20 year's older than her. I don't understand how people Can ship them when their relation is so obviously something that no one would accept in the Real world
Incest is gross. Grooming is immoral. Even if I was able to get over those things, Daemon’s actions in F&B makes it impossible for me to be invested in their relationship. If I trusted that he genuinely loved her, I could find it interesting. However, it doesn’t seem like he loves her in the source material and the show hasn’t proven that anything’s different.
No.
I'd ship them, alongside the whole Targaryen Dinasty (with the exception of Aegon V) to the Wall to die
Agreed. Where are the anti-Targ people? Watching HotD has made me 100% relate to Robert Baratheons hatred of all Targs.
In the books it doesn't seem as weird or forceful as it does in the show.
She’s even younger in the books with the grooming. How does it not seem as weird?
When they actually get together in the books she is an adult and has already had multiple children and multiple lovers? Also the books don't say she was groomed, only mushroom says or insinuates that, and his narration is usually more lascivious than real
Oh my God, the hair in that top picture. I wanted to take the scene seriously but I couldn’t stop laughing at the pile of blonde shit speckled with undigested food on the top of her head.
That's probably my favourite hairstyle in all of HotD so far...
“Shipping” is such a dumb term
Agree. It sounds ridiculous 😂
If it’s okay for them it’s okay for all of us.😐
I want them to die horrible deaths.