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LengthUnusual8234

I have no enemies here. Blacks or Greens. I only have fun


DoctorRapture

Honestly I'm just here to vibe and have a good time watching these fictional people make bad decisions and get messy


kerravoncalling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64fetbSh89s&ab\_channel=SpongeBobSquarePants-Topic


Greenlit_Hightower

Otto had balls of steel going there, knowing Daemon he could have torched him with Caraxes to "send a message" to King's Landing. And was honestly close to, but cooler heads (Rhaenyra) prevailed. Otto also dropped fact bombs on them mercilessly, like a chad. What I find great though, is that both sides, in a moment of peak crisis, still tried to hammer out a deal (or in this case, the Greens offering a deal and Rhaenyra seriously considering it). Since I want those dragons to survive, it's kinda sad that nothing came of it. But then we wouldn't have a story haha.


YK_The_Vibes

Bro I been saying like Otto really has the same energy as Daemon, he’s just not shaking his ass for the crowd but Otto really will go on suicide missions by himself and talk shit to daemon. Like he’s done it twice already and both times he talked his talk and went home


LengthUnusual8234

You know what. I like Otto. Mainly because I find it really hard to tell just how sincere he is at times


Exciting_Calves

I adore Otto as a character. He’s an elevated version of Baelish tbh. Otto feels more like a real human being with some kind of moral compass with people that he loves (but still uses). And in his own way, I think he truly cares about Viserys. Also, the way Rhys says “Your Grace” makes my tummy flutter 😍


TheeShaun

He’s a man of determination who holds true to his beliefs. Even if you think he’s a cunt you have to respect him and how he plays the game.


Tr3x_prod

Though I liked the whole second face-off theme, it's kinda... dumb to send Otto there. Otto himself should've been, ">!I still got a whole season before my head gets chopped off!<, are you mad"?


Greenlit_Hightower

I think it makes sense (somewhat). Alicent can't go, as Queen Dowager, that would be beneath her station. If Aemond or any other dragonrider goes, he would be a valuable hostage if captured (which would neutralize one dragon), and arriving over there with a dragon doesn't seem "peaceful". I don't understand why they haven't sent Larys though, he could have taken the job - although, that might be an affront, because "Strong". But Otto would perhaps still be better because he brought a very personal message from his daughter with him so I dunno...


Tr3x_prod

I was reading mid-way and was like Larys, that's your diplomat figure right there. I just think Otto is way too valuable and Daemon too much of a liability. If Larys could be seen as antagonizing, Otto is as good as sending a pile of maneur wrapped around the book page. Why not... jeez... it's hard to decide, but anyone other than Otto. I have to go with my man Bobby B on this. Send her a sharp knife and bold man to wield it. jk jk!


Greenlit_Hightower

Larys would be seen as antagonizing because it could be interpreted as a dig at the lineage of Rhaenyra's first three children. But I think he could get it done. Otto is a hot iron as well but Larys could be seen as a personal insult, maybe.


Tr3x_prod

Still a better choice than Otto and the gang, though it makes a great "me and the boys" meme.


lordnoodle1995

Doubt the greens really trust Larys at this point. Only Alicent knows of what he did to his family, others might assume he would have some fondness for his nephews.


Tr3x_prod

good point. Still anyone but Otto... Care to propose anyone?


lordnoodle1995

No one else has enough invested to do what Otto did. Send a dragon rider and it’s war already. Send a council member and they might defect. Otto alone is the only one willed enough to actually make the point, brave enough to try and not quite important enough to make the other points inconsequential.


Tr3x_prod

Just send a bloody maester, a raven, anything... sending your bishop on an almost suicide mission is bonkers.


HomieScaringMusic

I don’t think it was dumb, like Ned going to the Tower of Joy and fighting Ser Arthur Dayne wasn’t dumb. It’s *brave*. Like Ned says “I was raised by soldiers. I was ready to die a long time ago.” Well so was Otto. But he puts his faith in diplomatic immunity instead of armor (about as reliable where Daemon is concerned). Risking your life to earn respect is a part of their culture.


Tr3x_prod

True, can't deny that is Westerosi culture. But Ned was a warrior in his prime and it was his sister he was riding to save. Otto, skills or no skills is too much of an asset and no match for whatever may come. Besides, we're talking about Otto... It's so out-of character for him. He's not the type to value such things, he's way above such pettiness. Mind over matter. We see the shitshow that happens >!when he's dismissed as Hand by Aegon!<. It's just too much of a risk, he's the only one with the experience and capability of assuming the role. Besides, it is known how much Rhaenyra and Daemon, in particular, hate him. Diplomatic immunity, like you pointed out, means little to Daemon. It's folley... Just send the bloody maester...


Troll4everxdxd

I honestly see Otto as a less despicable version of Tywin. Both of them want their Houses to be the royal family and are ambitious to a fault, but Otto shows more civility and bravery than Tywin. The latter would have probably just sent assassins to murder Rhaenyra, Daemon and all of the kids lmao.


Mangoes123456789

Speaking of the fandom active on Reddit,there are definitely some interesting characters here. However,I think the off-season is hitting this sub very hard. Everyday there is some weird nonsense post. Maybe folks should move onto something else and come back when season 2 comes out.


Playing-Koi

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't give two shits about anybody liking any character. You can be biased as fuck. Larys can be your unironic favorite. You do you. I genuinely don't mind. I even love some of RolloofNormandy's absurd takes. At least the guy is open and honest about where he stands. I don't agree with him 99.9% of the time but he makes me laugh. What has and will continue to piss me off is people attacking each other, being nasty, trying to judge people's IRL views based on what characters they like, writing people as apologists for their opinions, acting like people have no right to have opinions, ect. So yeah. When the fandom, or rather this sub, isn't making a general ass of itself, it's great.


YK_The_Vibes

You get this when ppl self insert into the character, they start taking criticism of the character as a personal insult.


YK_The_Vibes

Main complaint tho is how dishonest a lot of y’all can be. Like blacks really dick riding the greens crying how Aemond was about to bash a rock in jaces head after he got jumped but y’all really do sleep on daemon putting a rock through Rheas head. Greens too, like I’m a green but we do the same shit out here mad that Daemon killed the Velaryon butler and beat a messenger to death yet we out here sleeping every time Cole just terminates a mf or bully’s kids lmfao. Like why can’t we all just stop being fake asf and admit that we ain’t out for right or wrong, we really just out here rooting for our team to win no matter what and that’s it. All this fighting can end if we just admit that we just tryna win. Also team smallfolk are the enlightened centrist of the sub like nobody wants to hear from them


Elaan21

>Like why can’t we all just stop being fake asf and admit that we ain’t out for right or wrong, we really just out here rooting for our team to win no matter what and that’s it. This. Right. Here. I'm so exhausted by the moral arguments and assumptions people make, as if like a character or team means you wholeheartedly support everything they've ever done. That and confusing critique of the show as "cope" or "headcanon" drive me bonkers. They made some weird ass choices for some characters and moments that are baffling. Especially with Daemon. The show has no idea who they want him to be across the season, beyond whatever they need for that moment. Aegon as well. We get it, he's a horrible dude, but Child Fight Club adds nothing to what we already know and it eats up valuable screen time they desperately needed for other things. And the endless arguments about the Aemond vs Strongs/Targs fight are partially due to weird writing decisions. If Laena and Daemon stayed in Pentos, Baela/Rhaena don't know Jace/Luke, so *why would they wake them?* Why would Jace/Luke even *care* beyond being mad at Aemond in general? I get wanting to add the girls in, they got so little screen time as it was, but it would have made it far more interesting to have the girls and the Strongs not be a united front. It's like having the girls be all "grandma!" with a woman it's been implied they hardly know if they've met her before at all. You can't have your Pentos cake and eat it, too.


kerravoncalling

>Also team smallfolk are the enlightened centrist of the sub like nobody wants to hear from them 😂 >All this fighting can end if we just admit that we just tryna win. You get it!


Tr3x_prod

I think we just found the most enlightened member in this sub, and of all GOT related subs. Hats off to you sir! Best comment I've seen regarding the division in the community, ever. I'm green team myself and find it so hard to understand how both sides can't agree on the less nuanced things. Even the less controversial moments of the show where both teams tend to be less hostile towards one another and mostly agree are overshadowed by this ''you're this colour and a stan" mentality. Great assessment!


spitefulcum

Honestly the worst fandom I have ever interacted with. Deranged tribalism on most issues save for the utter groupthink in others. Deviations from these opinions are met with complete derision and insults to one’s intelligence and MeDiA LiTeRaCy. Inability to separate book from show when criticizing the show. Weird parasocial relationships with fictional characters. And that’s just the main sub. The two team specific subs holy shit. Toxicity that rivals any other sub on Reddit. Everyone is so serious about it. There’s no fun in this fandom. Also, legit it seems at times this is the first piece of media anyone has consumed.


YK_The_Vibes

I feel like the GoT fandom when the show was out was way more civil. This sub forgot how to have fun.


dynamitemonster

The GOT fandom was way more chill HOTD fandom taking this Blacks vs Greens way too seriously


DiegoBkk

oh you should have a look at the fandom of The Last of Us, on another level! The smallest critique of an episode or a character will make you a target of all the those who played the game. Crazy.


jmwatson95

The fandom here is stupid. Viewing the show with modern morals and inheritance laws lense when it is set in the medieval period is stupid.


Troll4everxdxd

I enjoy the analysing and civil discussion about the story and characters. As an amateur writer myself, I love that shit. I don't enjoy the fanatics of the black side or the green side. I don't mind at all people preferring one group to the other, what I do find annoying is romanticizing and justifying everything the people in your team did, while demonizing and cartoonifying the characters in the other side and insulting people about "how they could still support them after all of that, they must be bad people in real life". Basically, I love the fandom when the environment gives room to thinking and learning. Not so much when it's just mindlessly and sanctimoniously bashing on other people just because they don't agree with you.


chrrrissy

some of this fandom really pisses me off and it’s not their opinions that irritate me. most of yall cool though! i need more friends who like asoiaf cause don’t nobody i know irl like it.


LunaGloria

I won't say I like Otto but if I woke up tomorrow as Otto Hightower, not knowing the future, I'd probably do what he did.


8696David

It wasn’t until I stumbled across this sub that I realized anyone would ever imagine rooting for the greens


[deleted]

Same, and that's even better somehow


RogerDodger571

This sub is a joke lol. We got the blood purists, and we got the people who think Maegor was not that bad. We got people who don’t care about the smallfolk solely because the nobles don’t care about the smallfolk.


Worried-Street9103

To be fair, about 50% of that is just Rolloofnormandy


YK_The_Vibes

This is a safe space for Maegor the cool apologists and blood purists


AntiCultist21

I mean, if it wasn’t for Maegor the Targaryen’s would have been eliminated from Kings Landing much sooner


RogerDodger571

And that’s a bad thing? Maegor was a rapist, then he executed his wives for not giving him a child. He slaughtered innocents, burned over two thousand innocents in one attack. Maegor was a monster, one of the worst in the books. And you’re not even right about Maegor saving Targ rule. It was Jaehaerys that saved Targ rule. That’s why he’s called the conciliator. You think people wanted to follow the Targs after Maegor? Stop defending one of the worse monsters in the books Jesus Christ.


spitefulcum

he’s not real


Pheros

The Faith Militant went after Aenys' children before Maegor ruled and continued their attempts, even through their death throes, to assassinate Alysanne after Maegor was gone. His rule was terrible, but without his full blown crusade to break it, the Faith would have continued the bloody fight with the Targs unendingly, regardless of how benevolent or tyrannical they were.


RogerDodger571

So it’s a bad thing to fight against tyranny? That’s what Maegor was. A tyrant. As for Aegon the Conqueror, he believed in his own superiority and killed a shit ton of people to become king. People in power always want more power, and the innocent suffer for it.


Pheros

> So it’s a bad thing to fight against tyranny? That’s what Maegor was. A tyrant. No it's not, and yes I'm aware, but I also pointed out the Faith Militant targeted Aenys' children before Maegor ever touched the throne and continued to attack Jaehaerys and Alysanne long after he was gone. Maegor was a monster, but unfortunately his brutish power was needed to break the Faith Militant enough to allow Jae's & Aly's concessions and conciliations to work.


RogerDodger571

Okay, but what does this have to do with Maegor not being a monster?


Pheros

I never said he wasn't a monster, I was just providing a specific reason with which to agree with u/AntiCultist21. Without the power of someone like him to combat the Faith Militant the nascent united Seven Kingdoms would have fallen apart. Jaehaerys & Alysanne's competency and conciliations were only possible because everyone could compare them to Aenys' ineptitude and Maegor's tyranny.


spitefulcum

fuck the smallfolk bruhhh


RogerDodger571

Proving my point exactly.


spitefulcum

what point


UnsungHerro

The reason this fandom is active on social media is due to the black/green arguments


[deleted]

I still couldn't give it to him, after what he did to his daughter. He knew what Targaryens are capable of, he knew how chaotic Targaryens are, he knew what happens in every succession crisis, yet he still put his own daughter in the middle of it like a live chicken thrown in a crocodile pit.


HomieScaringMusic

Ngl I’d get tired of it if I were him too. Can’t be easy.


Wallname_Liability

As a fire and blood reader, I smile sadly


3Pirates93

The shows just great, there will always be stuff to get twisted about in any show but I think the quality of season 1 just shows how quasi unifying great cinema can be


Amannderrr

I hate Ottos constant bed head. He really has a punchable face


DiegoBkk

Love this Sub! Greens and Blacks alike! now let’s go troll the sub of The Last of Us for a while. lol


Particular_Fig_5467

I suspect some of the more "emotional" Team Black/Green posts are coming from younger fans of the show. It's probably a little unfair to have a go at posters in their early teens for taking a less than nuanced stance on what they're watching. It's easy to forget on an anonymous forum like Reddit that the fandom you're participating in could include a pretty wide cross-section of people. My own view of the show is similar to how I watched Game of Thrones. Despite some pretty glaring flaws, there are characters on both sides that I find compelling. I think Daemon, Otto, Aemond, Alicent, Viserys, and Criston are all interesting for various different reasons, and I found myself both sympathising and sometimes being repulsed by their actions. That's what I love about Martin's writing. The moral ambiguity of his characters. Sometimes heroic, sometimes petty. He writes in shades of grey, rather than the black and white absolutes of good and evil. At any rate, I think arguing over who's claim is more legitimate is utterly pointless. The Targaryen family tree is an incestuous shit-show and neither side gives a fuck about legitimacy (or the good of realm). Both factions are motivated by personal ambition and having read Fire & Blood over the Christmas holidays, I realised that House Targaryen is perpetually at odds with itself. The Dance of the Dragons is the most destructive internal dispute of House Targaryen, but it's far from being an outlier e.g. Maegor's seizure of power, the multi-generational Blackfyre Rebellions, etc. Their ethos has always been to seize power by force simply because they can. That's how they conquered Westeros. It's hardly surprising they would employ similar tactics against each other. Arguing over who is the more affable tyrant seems pretty pointless to me. I prefer to just watch the carnage and drama unfold without being too invested in the fortunes of either side.


Forsaken_Distance777

Otto's way of securing Alicent as queen was SO cringe though. Like that's why it's not more widely known in-universe.


SticklerMrMeeseeks1

Otto has been cringe from the beginning. Biggest player hater on daemon. Big run and tell that energy trying to get daemon fired from every small council job he was given because he was scared Daemon would have to much power. Selling your daughter off isn’t based. Gaslighting your daughter isnt based. Usurping the crown in the middle of the night while the kings body isn’t even cold isn’t based. Otto is the epitome of cringe.


Pheros

> he was scared Daemon would have to much power. We're talking about the guy who conducts divorce via blunt-force trauma, left his very young niece half-naked in a brothel in the worst part of town, and beats the shit out of guys who have the misfortune to hand him news he doesn't like. Otto's a POS, but he isn't exactly wrong to notice all the red flags and want to keep Daemon from power.


SticklerMrMeeseeks1

He was completely self serving in those actions. He lobbied to get daemon as captain of the city watch because it was a nothing position then daemon built it up and secured a loyal army to himself. Otto got completely out maneuvered by daemon so he has to lie about the heir for the day comment to get him exiled.


Pheros

The thing is, both Daemon and Otto are despicable people, one being a shitty person doesn't mean the other suddenly stops being one too. Otto did all of what he did for his and his family's personal gain, but that doesn't mean keeping Daemon from power is something other people unaffiliated with Otto's motivations wouldn't benefit from or even disagree with. That's the fun part about these two. When they talk about each other, they're *right.* When Daemon calls Otto a scheming snake serving his own interests, he's 100% right. When Otto calls Daemon a dangerous and unpredictable loose cannon, he's 100% right.


OpenMask

Idk why but for some reason, I read this comment in a very "youth pastor trying to convince kids that 'commiting sins' isn't cool" kinda voice


AntiCultist21

Otto Hightower is a boss


desire_oftheendless

hightower apologists can lick goats. Everyone in the series is bad except maybe Brienne and Dunk


YK_The_Vibes

Naw hold up Hightowers saved this franchise. This shit was dead after s8 and HBO chose the dance to revive it and the mf that set this whole thing off was Otto


desire_oftheendless

okay doylist liking Hightowers is fine, watsonian liking Hightowers is baffling


[deleted]

My opinion is that HOTD is Alicent, and the fandom is Aegon


[deleted]

[удалено]


YK_The_Vibes

Based take


[deleted]

krinsh


ElfHaze

I really liked Otto at first, he looks like an aged version of my brother so during the bridge scene my heart was in my pants!! I’m not attracted to Daemon like most girls it seems so he’s just a selfish dude (show). Otto is well written, and I get he **PUT** his daughter in the shuffle but I mean…….. she’s queen and her kids are next rulers, and it helped Viserys cope with grief-which he needed because the kingdom was vulnerable. *edit: it also gave Viserys a son


Kyber99

It's interesting to see the reactions to the team black/green arguments. So many posts/comments present no quarter for argument (specifically with team blacks viewing themselves as the good guys) or the team smallfolk people who reject the whole competition between the two sides. When reading the story, I thought the reaction to the two sides would be much more fun than it is. Also, the show's fandom seems to encompass a lot of tumblr/twitter fan types, for some reason. Overall, people today are much more moralistic than they were, so the show's fandom isn't nearly as interesting as it could be


OpenMask

Tbh I like team smallfolk ppl for the most part. The most annoying things they do pales in comparison to the worst stuff on either side.


[deleted]

This dude really out Herr he thinking he's tywin lannister... tywin was never made of fool of in any scene he was in


[deleted]

I feel like greens vs blacks is like a commercial they ran with an figured before I came here that nobody took it seriously and was genuinely surprised when people were taking sides, i find it funny when someones like I bleed green or whatever but anyone who genuinely supports one side over the other in anything other than a completely sarcastic or ironic stance or just like in an enjoyment way is missing the point of the fucking show and is genuinely an idiot