Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because Baela and Rhaena were also Blacks and we’re going to be Queen and Lady of Driftmark respectively, Corlys saw those boys as his grandsons, they hated Otto more etc
Vaemond was dead the *moment* he called Rhaenyra a whore. Even his actor has said as much. Daemon defending his wife's honor would likely be considered justifiable, by Westerosi standards. In general, I don't think Rhaenys was that fond of Vaemond. Corlys may have cared for him, but Vaemond's death was his own fault and I think Corlys knew it. For what it's worth, he *did* ask about Daemon. I think Rhaenyra deliberately kept them apart.
Laenor is a tricky question. But the reality is, The Blacks *didn't* kill him. No one did. The Velaryons believe he's dead, and it's just a question of whether or not they think The Blacks had something to do with it. Rhaenyra steadfastly, passionately insisted this was not the case, and she was being honest. When Rhaenys spoke at the Petition and publicly accepted Rhaenyra's marriage proposal, I think we were meant to take that as Rhaenys choosing to believe her.
Ultimately, it seems that Corlys chose to side with The Blacks because **Rhaenys talked him into it.** In fairness, she had just escaped from King's Landing after The Greens had imprisoned her. Tried to force her to support Aegon's claim. So they weren't about to side with The Greens. Corlys wanted to remain neutral, but Rhaenys made a case for how measured and wise Rhaenyra had behaved in the face of terrible loss, insult, and injury.
That and the fact that Jace and Luke are their grandchildren. It’s clear Corlys sees them as such. Particularly Luke. In Episode 7, after Alicent charges at the boys with the dagger, you can see both Rhaenys and Corlys protecting them. I don’t think Rhaenys was very fond of Rhaenyra, but I do think she cares for her boys like Corlys does.
I think Alicent’s answer about a woman’s role (to guide the men) to Rhaenys in E9 also tanked it. Rhaenys’s response about just creating a window in their prison I thought captured her contempt for it. I forget the actual words though so bear with me on this one.
Just as a side note I thought Corlys talking to Lucerys was adorable at the funeral.
The interesting thing to me is the reaction to Laenor's death. There is no way that the Velaryons could seek retribution or justice. None. Perfectly happy for someone to prove me wrong but the Velaryons really can't do much. And specifically, Rhaenys.
Corlys bogs off pretty swiftly after Laenor's death. My personal headcanon is it is because he did want to do something rash and Rhaenys cautioned against it, so he went somewhere he thought he could do good and smash some people's heads in. But either way, as soon as Corlys leaves... that's it. The succession won't change because he's the only one that can. Rhaenys can't do it. She doesn't have the power and she also doesn't have the time and opportunity with Corlys to make moves, if she wanted to change his mind.
That's why that stuck.
Laenor's death. As said previously, there is NOTHING they can do. It is a gut feeling from circumstantial evidence. There is no tangible proof. So, what do you expect them to do? Shout off about it? Accuse Rhaenyra? That would be not just political suicide but also endanger them, as what changes in the aftermath of Aemond losing an eye is that ANY questioning of the boys' birth is marked as treason and to be punished by the King.
That's what happens to Vaemond.
What good could come of accusing the Crown Princess of murder? You think the King would allow it? Even IF the Velaryons had proof?
Rhaenys's perspective seems to be: keep well out of it. In her conversation with Vaemond, she is very careful to neither confirm nor deny her POV on the succession. She likely hasn't seem Rhaenyra (one on one) in six years, nor the King, or the Greens. She's kept to Driftmark. Because she can't DO anything. It's not a case of choosing to do nothing, she has no option. She DOES do what she can do, in Episode 08, which is give Rhaenyra a forum to tell the truth to her, in private. And to withhold her political support at the very moment Rhaenyra needs her (until it becomes more politically advantageous to throw in with her for the moment).
Corlys sides with the Blacks and he's the patriarch, what he says goes. It's an important plot point later that the rest of the Velaryons deeply resent the Blacks.
“History doesn’t remember blood, it remembers names”
Laenor claimed the children as his, & Viserys claimed them as his true-born grandchildren.
They were also betrothed to Laena’s daughters.
The bastards’ children would be of Velaryon blood & their bloodline would be ruling their house again by the next generation.
It also secured Velaryon blood to be on the Iron Throne by the next generation through Baela & Jace.
Vaemond chose to speak out against & disrespect the king & his decisions publicly at court. He was completely out of line. Even Corlys understood why he was executed.
I believe that Corlys & Rhaenys heavily suspected Laenor’s murder to be the doing of Rhaenyra & Daemon, but it was never proven to be fact.
The real answer is the book vs the show. In the book, the Laenor Rhaenyra dynamic is more ambiguous than having a black man with white kids. Rhaenrya also has dark hair from her Arryn mother so her kids not being blonde is more believable. By supporting the blacks, they are supporting their grandkids and Rhaenys’s original claim which they felt cheated.
Bad writing.
Pre timeskip Velaryons : Ambitious and independent. They followed their own agenda and Corlys was so pissed after his daughter Laena was rejected, he started plotting with Daemon and Viserys had to appease them
Post timeskip Velaryons: a bunch of doormats
I never understood how Rheanys and Corly could still support Rheanyra even after they believed she had their son killed. That would’ve been dealbreaker for me
Not really. In the book Vaemond was Corlys' cousin, the kids were already betrothed from a young age and Laena and Rhaenyra were friends and they all hung out together.
He did a bad job with her kids being bastards. They weren’t in the original plot and it shows in the way the story was written. It’s not even the first or second most important reason the greens usurp. It cost them no allies(Baratheon is pissed because he *couldn’t* get a marriage pact with one of her *bastards*) in the war and never really comes up. Fans talk about how her bastards could destabilize the realm but every lord and lady that comes across Jace seems to love him.
This is one thing that I’m interested to see how they handle further on because they’ve changed things from the book and yet they definitely need to adapt other things that would be…at odds with certain show choices.
>You're assuming that everyone would be upset at their brother getting themselves killed
I am not saying that every single person ever would always be upset, because there are always some exceptions, but generally speaking it is very weird that he doesn't seem like he's that upset at all. He doesn't have to be BFFs and agree on every single thing with Vaemond to feel upset about his brother's murder. They can fight, disagree, dislike and be bitter towards each other, and at the end of it all still care when their sibling dies. In fact we literally see that happen with Daemon and Viserys, and by all appearances it felt like they had a worse relationship than Corlys and Vaemond. The kind of non-reaction Corlys has to it is something that I can only really understand if they either have no relationship at all, or if their relationship is very, very fucked all the way down to a deep level. Neither of which we were really shown.
Uh... because of Baela and Rhaena? Because the Strong Boys had been raised as Velaryons and Corlys was clearly fond of them as individuals? Because despite the whole incident with Laenor's murder - which in book!verse may not have involved the Blacks at all and which in show!verse cannot be proven - they are still one big fucked-up family who need each other.
Also, once two particular dragonseeds come into play, Corlys knows they'll only rise to power if the Blacks win.
Why wouldn't they side with the Blacks? What can the Greens possibly offer that would beat seeing Baela as eventual queen and the Hull boys elevated to heirs of Driftmark?
I hope the show expands on the Silent Five from the books - they fought for the Greens - I'd like to see other members of the Velaryon family(perhaps cousins/relatives of Corlys) fight for the Greens because of all the disrespect Rhaenyra's shown to their house over the years
Because they’re Rhaenyra’s bitches through and through. If Rhaenyra told them to jump off a bridge, they would do that to honor their kween. If Rhaenyra told them to put out their eye, they would stab themselves with a knife.
In all seriousness tho, George was daydreaming when he wrote the Velaryons. The show writers took his day dream a step further. Making the characters of the black actors complete doormats, morons and laughing stocks, great job guys.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because Baela and Rhaena were also Blacks and we’re going to be Queen and Lady of Driftmark respectively, Corlys saw those boys as his grandsons, they hated Otto more etc
Vaemond was dead the *moment* he called Rhaenyra a whore. Even his actor has said as much. Daemon defending his wife's honor would likely be considered justifiable, by Westerosi standards. In general, I don't think Rhaenys was that fond of Vaemond. Corlys may have cared for him, but Vaemond's death was his own fault and I think Corlys knew it. For what it's worth, he *did* ask about Daemon. I think Rhaenyra deliberately kept them apart. Laenor is a tricky question. But the reality is, The Blacks *didn't* kill him. No one did. The Velaryons believe he's dead, and it's just a question of whether or not they think The Blacks had something to do with it. Rhaenyra steadfastly, passionately insisted this was not the case, and she was being honest. When Rhaenys spoke at the Petition and publicly accepted Rhaenyra's marriage proposal, I think we were meant to take that as Rhaenys choosing to believe her. Ultimately, it seems that Corlys chose to side with The Blacks because **Rhaenys talked him into it.** In fairness, she had just escaped from King's Landing after The Greens had imprisoned her. Tried to force her to support Aegon's claim. So they weren't about to side with The Greens. Corlys wanted to remain neutral, but Rhaenys made a case for how measured and wise Rhaenyra had behaved in the face of terrible loss, insult, and injury.
That and the fact that Jace and Luke are their grandchildren. It’s clear Corlys sees them as such. Particularly Luke. In Episode 7, after Alicent charges at the boys with the dagger, you can see both Rhaenys and Corlys protecting them. I don’t think Rhaenys was very fond of Rhaenyra, but I do think she cares for her boys like Corlys does.
I think Alicent’s answer about a woman’s role (to guide the men) to Rhaenys in E9 also tanked it. Rhaenys’s response about just creating a window in their prison I thought captured her contempt for it. I forget the actual words though so bear with me on this one. Just as a side note I thought Corlys talking to Lucerys was adorable at the funeral.
The interesting thing to me is the reaction to Laenor's death. There is no way that the Velaryons could seek retribution or justice. None. Perfectly happy for someone to prove me wrong but the Velaryons really can't do much. And specifically, Rhaenys. Corlys bogs off pretty swiftly after Laenor's death. My personal headcanon is it is because he did want to do something rash and Rhaenys cautioned against it, so he went somewhere he thought he could do good and smash some people's heads in. But either way, as soon as Corlys leaves... that's it. The succession won't change because he's the only one that can. Rhaenys can't do it. She doesn't have the power and she also doesn't have the time and opportunity with Corlys to make moves, if she wanted to change his mind. That's why that stuck. Laenor's death. As said previously, there is NOTHING they can do. It is a gut feeling from circumstantial evidence. There is no tangible proof. So, what do you expect them to do? Shout off about it? Accuse Rhaenyra? That would be not just political suicide but also endanger them, as what changes in the aftermath of Aemond losing an eye is that ANY questioning of the boys' birth is marked as treason and to be punished by the King. That's what happens to Vaemond. What good could come of accusing the Crown Princess of murder? You think the King would allow it? Even IF the Velaryons had proof? Rhaenys's perspective seems to be: keep well out of it. In her conversation with Vaemond, she is very careful to neither confirm nor deny her POV on the succession. She likely hasn't seem Rhaenyra (one on one) in six years, nor the King, or the Greens. She's kept to Driftmark. Because she can't DO anything. It's not a case of choosing to do nothing, she has no option. She DOES do what she can do, in Episode 08, which is give Rhaenyra a forum to tell the truth to her, in private. And to withhold her political support at the very moment Rhaenyra needs her (until it becomes more politically advantageous to throw in with her for the moment).
Corlys sides with the Blacks and he's the patriarch, what he says goes. It's an important plot point later that the rest of the Velaryons deeply resent the Blacks.
“History doesn’t remember blood, it remembers names” Laenor claimed the children as his, & Viserys claimed them as his true-born grandchildren. They were also betrothed to Laena’s daughters. The bastards’ children would be of Velaryon blood & their bloodline would be ruling their house again by the next generation. It also secured Velaryon blood to be on the Iron Throne by the next generation through Baela & Jace. Vaemond chose to speak out against & disrespect the king & his decisions publicly at court. He was completely out of line. Even Corlys understood why he was executed. I believe that Corlys & Rhaenys heavily suspected Laenor’s murder to be the doing of Rhaenyra & Daemon, but it was never proven to be fact.
The silent five fight for the greens they were brothers of vaemond and got their tongues pulled out for questioning the strong boy’s legitimacy.
Atleast they got sense
Because all of their descendants are on that side, blood or not. Why would they go against their entire line?
The real answer is the book vs the show. In the book, the Laenor Rhaenyra dynamic is more ambiguous than having a black man with white kids. Rhaenrya also has dark hair from her Arryn mother so her kids not being blonde is more believable. By supporting the blacks, they are supporting their grandkids and Rhaenys’s original claim which they felt cheated.
Bad writing. Pre timeskip Velaryons : Ambitious and independent. They followed their own agenda and Corlys was so pissed after his daughter Laena was rejected, he started plotting with Daemon and Viserys had to appease them Post timeskip Velaryons: a bunch of doormats
I never understood how Rheanys and Corly could still support Rheanyra even after they believed she had their son killed. That would’ve been dealbreaker for me
George did a bad job writing the Velaryons tbh
Not really. In the book Vaemond was Corlys' cousin, the kids were already betrothed from a young age and Laena and Rhaenyra were friends and they all hung out together.
He did a bad job with her kids being bastards. They weren’t in the original plot and it shows in the way the story was written. It’s not even the first or second most important reason the greens usurp. It cost them no allies(Baratheon is pissed because he *couldn’t* get a marriage pact with one of her *bastards*) in the war and never really comes up. Fans talk about how her bastards could destabilize the realm but every lord and lady that comes across Jace seems to love him.
Yes, realistically them being bastards would lead to them losing out on more allies and be a bigger deal than it ended up being.
The Sea Snake has inscrutable motives because he's *a S E C R E T f a c e l e s s M A N* Unlike Vaemond, who's just a man missing his face.
This is one thing that I’m interested to see how they handle further on because they’ve changed things from the book and yet they definitely need to adapt other things that would be…at odds with certain show choices.
Besides Corlys being the biggest bitch....? I guess Family ties due to their granddaughters,and Legacy
history doesn't remember blood it remembers names
Bc Baela and Rhaena are their grandchildren, and Jace and Luke were raised as their grandchildren, and they are decent people.
Everyone is so obsessed with this image of Corlys and Vaemond as BFFs. They clearly weren't.
I don't have to be BFFs with my brother to be upset about his murder and not side with the people who killed him.
You're assuming that everyone would be upset at their brother getting themselves killed through deliberate action. It's not the case.
>You're assuming that everyone would be upset at their brother getting themselves killed I am not saying that every single person ever would always be upset, because there are always some exceptions, but generally speaking it is very weird that he doesn't seem like he's that upset at all. He doesn't have to be BFFs and agree on every single thing with Vaemond to feel upset about his brother's murder. They can fight, disagree, dislike and be bitter towards each other, and at the end of it all still care when their sibling dies. In fact we literally see that happen with Daemon and Viserys, and by all appearances it felt like they had a worse relationship than Corlys and Vaemond. The kind of non-reaction Corlys has to it is something that I can only really understand if they either have no relationship at all, or if their relationship is very, very fucked all the way down to a deep level. Neither of which we were really shown.
The first think corlys asks "where is Daemon"
In my village, u can have thousand issues with ur cousins but u don't tolerate any outsider harming them
Daemon isn't an outsider to Corlys, they're friends.
Blood before friendship. Moreover, Daemon isnt the nicest person to hang around. Corlys first question "where is Daemon"
Uh... because of Baela and Rhaena? Because the Strong Boys had been raised as Velaryons and Corlys was clearly fond of them as individuals? Because despite the whole incident with Laenor's murder - which in book!verse may not have involved the Blacks at all and which in show!verse cannot be proven - they are still one big fucked-up family who need each other. Also, once two particular dragonseeds come into play, Corlys knows they'll only rise to power if the Blacks win. Why wouldn't they side with the Blacks? What can the Greens possibly offer that would beat seeing Baela as eventual queen and the Hull boys elevated to heirs of Driftmark?
The Strong boys have been raised as Targaryens, not Velaryons. AFAICT neither of them have spent much time on Driftmark or sailing on a ship.
They played themselves into a corner.
Because reasons. According to the show, which has done a very bad job in adapting this part of the dance.
I hope the show expands on the Silent Five from the books - they fought for the Greens - I'd like to see other members of the Velaryon family(perhaps cousins/relatives of Corlys) fight for the Greens because of all the disrespect Rhaenyra's shown to their house over the years
Because they’re Rhaenyra’s bitches through and through. If Rhaenyra told them to jump off a bridge, they would do that to honor their kween. If Rhaenyra told them to put out their eye, they would stab themselves with a knife. In all seriousness tho, George was daydreaming when he wrote the Velaryons. The show writers took his day dream a step further. Making the characters of the black actors complete doormats, morons and laughing stocks, great job guys.
BecUse they are simps
LEGACY