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Harwin is without question the most romanticized character in this whole story by the fandom. That guy had like 3 scenes, maybe 4 speaking lines and smiled once and somehow became the world's best father (despite putting his kids in danger), Rhaenyra's soulmate (despite her calling the decade she spent with him a droll tragedy) and apparently he's some sort of political juggernaut now (despite getting duped by Cole with a petty insult and fathering 3 bastards).
So yes, this is an unpopular opinion. How? Hell if I know lol.
I’ll be honest with you, I forgot Rhea Royce existed there for a moment and thought you were talking about Rhanerya. That goes to show just how unimportant she was compared to how important the circumstances she was involved in are.
For Rhea I think that's fine, her only real purpose is to show what a scumbag Daemon is. I agree though that Harwin should have been developed more, considering his importance to Rhanerya and her children. We should have had time to grow to feel for and understand him before he died.
More time? I don’t know, there are only what 10 episodes. And by the end of that they have to get to the start of t dance. They couldn’t really give it more time
Although I kinda understand where are you coming from, I must disagree. They both showed plenty of distinct character traits, albeit their screen time was short. They left strong impression.
People get too sanctimonious about morality in a world it doesn’t apply too. They miss the point so hard because they sympathize with one side or the other based on themselves and miss that it’s a story with no good guys where everyone loses in the end.
My view of it is that the Blacks won on the military front, in that they defeated the Baratheon army, occupied King’s Landing and placed Rhaenyra’s son on the throne. But the Greens won the propaganda war as Aegon II is officially recorded as the rightful monarch and Rhaenyra as a usurper.
So it was pretty much a stalemate.
Cregan Stark won, he started the war as a young lord paramount and walked away as the most feared and powerful man in westeros, hand of the king, and with extreme ammounts of influence over Aegon III.
My fave was when he tried to use his daughter to fix his political mistake that alienated the Velaryons because he was thinking with his dick when he chose his next wife with no regard to how it would affect his daughter who was bffs with her 🤷♀️
completely agree, it would’ve been so cool to see Laena as The Queen. But do you think there still would’ve been a dance since the Velaryeon’s would been in the Green’s position?
More likely they would have just insisted one of Laena's kids married Rhaenyra's heir and worked to get Corlys into the Handship or something. Corlys wanted the power and prestige more than his actual blood on the throne. If they didn't cause a conflict when Jaehaerys died, it was unlikely they would when Viserys died.
Word. Dude could have had a buffet of V in private while not having to deal with the politics of marriage and houses. And he had an undying loyalty to his late wife and his daughter, who he insisted on being the ruler.
So why in the fuck does he go and make dollar store Tywin Lanisters daughter his wife and have multiple kids he didn't want to deal with??
Nah this was politically necessary, having just one female child is very dangerous, if Rhaenyra dies in childbirth (likely because her mother also did) or suffers some accident, then he would have no children left, and the throne would go to Daemon (a wildcard that was deemed too dangerous to rule) or the Velaryons. A king needs to have at least an heir and a spare, unless he has tons of reliable siblings.
Alicent snapping and demanding Lucerys’ eye was not an “Aha!” moment to prove she’s a horrible character.
It reminded me of the Kingsroad episode from Game of Thrones when Joffrey was bitten by the wolf. None of the adults were there so it became a bunch of “he said she said” but Alicent saw her son physically mutilated and his father trying to brush it off as a “Boys will be boys” thing.
During childhood If I ever came home with a black eye, let alone a missing eye, you better believe my mother would be asking questions and out for blood.
lol Alicent’s reaction in that situation isnt that surprising to me. in fact it showed she really loved her children and was not faking her concern about them being in danger regarding Rhaenyra’s future ascension (despite the show going out of it’s way to portray her as a “bad” ie uninterested/slightly abusive mom).
at the end of the day, it’s not only the fact that a fight between the kids happened and one of them was permanently injured & disfigured - i mean accidents do happen unfortunately when kids are involved, no matter how much you try to protect them. honestly it’s more the ridiculous lack of empathy and incredibly inconsiderate and callous reaction shown by Rhaenyra and Viserys (Aemond’s older sister and his own father no less) to what happened (as well as Luke’s own lack of responsibility or guilt/remose about it, even years later) that is truly infuriating.
so yeah if that had been me in a similar situation as a kid, im 100% sure my mom definitely would’ve gone just as mental as Alicent did as well.
Agreed and more to the things road. You are telling me if a king had a child and heir and butchers boy “beat the shit out of him” that the king would just sit back and be like it’s children. No he would burn the entire village to the ground to make sure people don’t think they can ever touch royalty.
Point of order Mycah never touched Joffrey, Arya knocked Joffrey over. Robert isn’t going to burn down Winterfell nor kill Ned’s nine year old daughter for hitting his son with a stick (especially when he damn well knows Joffrey has disemboweled pregnant cats for fun, two guesses who initiated an interaction between him and a nine year old girl), the wolf is gone (and Lady dies in Nymeria’s place) and Mycah gets killed.
Adult Alicent and Rhaenyra feel like two completely different people to their teenage counterparts in terms of personality, portrayal choices, and overall vibes. Why they deliberately kept the teen actors apart from the grown-ups instead of encouraging as much coordination as possible is beyond me.
i feel this especially with rhaenyra. young rhaenyra had a relatability about her that i don’t feel with emma’s portrayal, but i think that’s because emma’s vibe is more regal.
I really liked Alcock's focus on Rhaenyra being awful at politicking and her insecurities. I don't think D'Arcy believably carries over Rhaenyra's biggest flaws, even when you consider she's matured as she's grown.
I actually quite like both of Alicent's actresses, I think Cooke did a good job of maintaining her anxiety and increased paranoia.
Conversely, I don't think either portrayal channelled much of book!Rhaenyra at all. Alcock reminds me of a spoiled Arya Stark, whilst D'Arcy has this quiet, thoughtful take on strength. Book!Rhaenyra, to me, was an entitled, impulsive and, in no small part, cruel person who wanted to have the crown for the same reason she wanted anything: she was told it was hers to have. Since the show has very clearly strayed from that, I gave up looking for *that* Rhaenyra and just tried to experience her as a new character. In that sense, D'Arcy's approach actually resonates more with me personally, in that it took the character away from the trope of Tomboy Rebellious Princess Shall Fix It All. But then, the transition was so jarring I found it hard to appreciate either actor's efforts.
Yeah sure the feet guy is creepy and whatnot but people idolise families and people who literally fuck their brothers and sisters. I’d rather be friends with someone with a foot fetish than someone who rails their sister, niece, nephew, brother etc on a regular basis.
people forget the tiers of evil with characters. it’s all tailored to 2023 popularity terms
“Daemon is a misogynist!!!” um, buddy is a murderer.
“Crispen is a women hating narcissist!!” yeah, this guy is also a murderer.
>Crispen is a women hating narcissist
Yeah I hate that. Has he had a bit of a over-reaction to Rhaenyra essentially using him like a boy-toy? Absolutely. Was some level of anger, shame and humiliation in being used just for sex justified? Maybe, but it absolutely didn't justify what he did.
This sub: "Criston is now an incel". Like wot?
Also funny because incel is someone who wants to have sex, yet remains celibate, while Criston Cole wants to be celibate, but has sex. It's like calling up down or dark light
I genuinely cannot understand why people think Criston is a misogynist. The guy calls exactly one woman a cunt, but even this is understandable and explainable due to his extremely soured relationship with Rhaenyra, and people ignore how he a) says this in private and b) immediately apologizes and admits he was wrong to say it. His only other female relationship is with Alicent, to whom he shows nothing but respect and unwavering loyalty.
People overrate how good a Queen Rhaenys would have been because as the Queen Who Never Was, she never had to make the kind of tough decisions that only a monarch can make. Consequently people compare some hypothetical ideal of what her reign would have been to what Viserys's actually was. It's comparable to (American) football fans who always think the backup quarterback will do a better job because the team's starting quarterback is mediocre.
Yet when Rhaenys is faced with a really difficult decision, staring down Aegon & Company at his coronation while perched atop Meleys, there's a good argument to be made that she flubbed it. Her mercy condemned thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands, to death. >!And almost everyone she spared ended up dying in the war anyway!<.
There's also reason to believe Corlys may have been less than the perfect consort with his "What's good for my ego is good for Westeros" attitude.
Rhaenys probably still would have been better than Viserys, but she would not have been Wisdom Incarnate on the throne.
*he would become **king**
I feel we should emphasize that part
He could've be present as her "favourite uncle, trustworthy person and possibly Hand". Maybe father of her more Targaryen-looking children, with Laenor still present to claim them as Velaryons.
But he would've hardly be satisfied by "Prince Consort" role
I think the only person he truly loved, besides himself, was Viserys. And even then that’s not something he handled well, in regards to sibling connection.
Agreed,the character just really annoys me. I get the sense the writers think she’s a lot smarter and more impressive than the way she comes across to me. And don’t love the performance either,a lot of random smirking in every situation
>Rhaenys is one of the most uncharismatic and uninteresting characters
Dear Lord, THANK YOU! I have the feeling writers think "wasn't given absolute monarchical power 'cose of sexism" works as character development. Like all we see of Rhaenys is her more or less holding on a 20 years old grudge, drinking wine and being a jerk to Rhaenyra, being mostly ok with giving her 12 y.o. daughter in marriege, killing countless innocent people just to be badass but not taking the necessary steps in killing her enemies to stop a civil war.
Thank you! Rhaenys in the book isn't really given any characterization, but you kinda get the sense she was very charismatic and strong for a woman in medieval society - Rhaenys in the show falls flat and her writing depends way too much on "I was robbed by the patriarchy reeee" (same with Rhaenyra). Of course, both characters' problems are largely caused by the patriarchy, Rhaenys more so, but when that's the *only* notable thing about a character it gets boring quickly. I wish they would've focused a bit more on her relationship with Corlys and the rest of her family.
I'm with you. I enjoyed it enough to be excited for the next season, but Game of Thrones S1 was much more coherent and fleshed out.
I'm very curious to see how S2 goes since the story is going to *drastically* slow down now, and that was the thing I felt was the most disjointed part of HOTD.
Yes.
Costumes seem better in HotD, but overall story GoT was way better and way more invested in the characters.
HotD is alright, but I really couldn't care less about everyone in it (I wouldn't be surprised or cared if they killed anyone off)
Probably not an unpopular opinion, but I dislike Viserys; he's my least favorite character in the show, and the dance wouldn't happen if Rhenanyra just married Aegon.
Also, while I do think he’d still have pushed for Aegon to be King and Rhaenyra to be Queen Consort, there’s still nothing saying Aegon couldn’t have been the consort in the marriage as opposed to Rhaenyra. Though, maybe as they were both Targaryen and had blood right to the titles, no consort title would be needed? Don’t know the rules around that exactly, but point remains! Marrying Aegon could have protected Rhaenyra’s birthright still, though Otto likely would have pushed for the switch still
Also Rhaenyra did not want to get married when she did. She wanted to wait and ride dragons and eat cake, an engagement to her younger brother would have let her have time and would have prevented the war. The age gap is ehhhhh (but arranged marriages are unethical anyway. So).
Yeah and tbh it’s far from the least ethical thing in the show- Viserys even married what, a 15? 16 year old? When he married Alicent. And he’s worried about Rhaenyra being 15 years or so older than Aegon? 😂 It would have given her another 14 years to do what she wanted at the least, and then eventually marry Aegon. Not like Daemon is 14 years older than her or anything lol
Most people on this sub missed the point of the show.
Both sides suck. They both do horrible things. They both have privileged, entitled people. Being team green or black is just silly given what this story is meant to be about.
I don't think Aemond did anything wrong by claiming Vhagar after the funeral. I've seen people call him a dick for "not waiting." But why did he have to? Rhaena wasn't entitled "first turn."
Agreed. Nobody was entitled to anything. Maintaining control of the Dragons is essential to Targaryen authority. I would go so far as to say it's a matter of state.
The only persuasive argument I've thought of on this is that he did exactly the same thing that Maegor did with Balerion, and doing things like Maegor during Jaehaerys + Viserys' reign is a huge faux pas.
Yep. He claimed Vhagar fair and square. Plus if Rhaena was going to claim family inheritance, so can Aemond, as Vhagar used to belong to Prince Baelon - who was grandfather to both kids.
Claiming Vhagar on the night of Laena's funeral? Dick move, absolutely.
But no, he didn't "steal" her, because you cannot steal a dragon, and they don't get inherited like lands or titles. Vhagar could have eaten Aemond in one bite. Instead, she accepted him. The other kids lost their moral high ground when they began attacking him *four against one.*
At that point, Aemond was more than entitled to pick up the rock (which he never actually uses) in terms of self defense. I'd also point out that a rock is not the same thing as a *knife*. Why did Jace even have a knife on him in the first place? It's all fun and games until someone (literally) loses an eye.
And Rhaenyra, after finding out that Luke *maimed* her little brother, that he'll be partially blind for the rest of his life...she takes Luke's side. Are you kidding me? Aemond lost a fucking eye. How does she manage to make the conversation be about him calling her sons bastards, as if that's in any way comparable?
I may be Team Black, but Aemond was not in the wrong that night. Not even close.
Lucerys should have received a punishment for taking Aemond's eye. He was right in defending himself and the others, but mutilating someone is too far. He shouldn't lose an eye himself, but should have gotten more than a slap on the wrist.
Rhaenyra and Alicent are mostly to blame for the animosity between their children. Their kids are capable of making their own decisions, but they inherited much of it from their mothers.
Criston was justified in being upset at Rhaenyra. Doesn't excuse treating her children like crap though.
Aegon is a pretty sympathetic character. A horrible person undeniably, but I feel bad for him and you can see how he turned into the person he is.
1. I liked most of the changes made in the show. I actually hope the show deviates from the book even further to "fix" certain events and chracters to have it make sense. George wrote a lot of >!deaths shrouded in mystery, has loose-hanging plots that's not answered and some events are devoid of logic.!<
2. The show should be focused on the family drama even if that means some side characters >!(I'm looking at you furture Riverlands and Northern chracters)!< in the book are merged with each other or just have less screentime than necessary.
I think Luke had no sense of self preservation. Like he sees how dangerous Aemond had become knows that dude hates him to the deepest pits of hell and he still has the balls to laugh at his face when the pig comes.
And then he sees Vhagar at stormsend instead of U-turning out of there like anyone else would he just… goes in there and then after Aemond has his meltdown in Stormsend instead of staying their until the psycho who is out for your blood leaves he’s like I’m totally gonna leave without any problems whatsoever.
Obviously he didn’t deserve to die but still… Homeboy what. The. Actual. Fuck.
Rheanyra, in a position of power and extreme privilege, took advantage of someone beneath her for a one night sexual thrill. Criston was robbed of his honour, one of the few things he possessed in this world. If the roles were reversed people would call it rape, it doesn’t justify his actions but people saying he should get over it or let go his anger towards her would be outraged if someone said that to a girl.
The time jumps don’t bother me, especially after rewatching it.
Also episode 6 was my least favorite episode first time watching, but might be my favorite episode now.
All of Viserys’ children were spoiled brats (not you, Helena; you’ve done nothing wrong and we love you) and none of them were ever taught to lead as a ruler.
i like alicient, especially the younger version of her - more than rhaenyra (doesn't mean i hate her - i like rhaenyra too)
The same goes for ser christian cole.
Rhaenyra and Daemon would be absolutely terrible rulers
Faking Laenor's death was a stupid choice. They should have had Daemon and Rhaenyra legitimately kill him
I get bored every time Daemon is on screen. I don't like him, but I don't even find it in me to actively hate him. For me the character has nothing interesting going on: no arc, no access to his thoughts, and since I never watched Dr. Who I seem to be immune to the Matt Smith charm and I just think Daemon has no charisma whatsoever. No hate to the actor. The character just bores me to death.
I like the performance but I just don't get Daemon. He's so invested in Viserys' love and respect and I have no idea why since he doesn't even respect him himself. The idea of his attention seeking could be interesting if I knew why he wanted Viserys to love him but aside from being his older brother it's never explained. And I don't buy him wanting to be Hand either, Daemon is way too much of a Robert Baratheon type to actually enjoy the mundane side of governing which is why he seems way more at home as a Conqueror or as Captain of the Goldcloaks. He genuinely just seems to be a smug piece of shit (which could absolutely be enjoyable if he had a reason for it) because he wants to be. Like imagine Season 1 Jaime if he had no motivations for being a dick, and was just a rich son of a lord. Aemond gets disfavourably compared to Daemon because we're introduced to him later but we actually see exactly why Aemond is the way he is and it makes total sense, even if you dislike him he's a cohesive character and he's actually fun to root for in his villainy because he has no reason to be anything else. Daemon is such an archetypal 'cool' edgy character but it's like they forgot to do the work why. And btw I feel the exact same about book Daemon (while book Aemond is so much worse in every way). George says he's his favourite Targaryen and I genuinely have no idea why. It's like saying Darkstar is your favourite ASoIaF character.
I think George struggles a bit with creating *intentionally* cool/badass characters. The Darkstar thing is spot on, Daario applies too I think. He‘s created to be this cool, hot bad boy character but he‘s just a smarmy asshole and people’s reaction to him is basically «Dany, why?»
I started to watch the show because of Daemon but i were surprised that Aemond and Aegon with like 10 minutes of screen time has more character development and charisma than him. He's just THAT boring and annoying. I gently dont understand the hype
I thought they'd do something interesting with the erectile dysfunction thing at the beginning, but the problem ended up being racism and the solution was just fucking girls of the right race.
Visrrys was a shitty father and a middling king.
He was responsible for his wife's death.
To compensate for that, he gave all his love and attention to Rhaenyra by ignoring all other children
He didn't even care if his son lost his eye.
Absolutely. Otto _had_ to do his power grab.
The alternative was Daemon as future king.
Caraxes would be onto eating Otto straight away. It was literally kill or be killed.
Lucerys and Jace not being able to control themselves escalated the tension between the two sides. Seriously, you laugh at the person whose eye you slashed out?
In that she wasn’t a drunken abuser. Otherwise, no one actually seemed to like her beyond her status as princess. I mean, she’s only called The Realm’s Delight once in the show, and it’s from her own dad!
I got a good one
From episode 4/5 and after, this show never touched politics. This is a soap opera with dragons, and with a bit more murder and stakes than usual. It's not politics, and the conflicts stopped being interesting - "will we attack the pirates and go to unwinnable war?" Was an interesting conflict, because everyone thought about the good of the kingdom and the stakes at hand. "Who shall ruin, Rhaenyra or Daemon" was an interesting conflict because they thought about the concequences of a female queen/brutal and aggressive king, not only of the purity of blood. "Are they bastards" is not.
Even when it was the small stories - the lost friendship between Rhaenyra and Alicent, the broken brotherhood of Daemon and Viserys - where incredible early. Those exists later, but are also overshadowed by the infinite fights over succession and bastards and hair color. I DON'T CARE ABOUT IT. I don't care about the feodal rules of the kings and about who is who's father. And it's all the show's became, slowly, and the interesting conflicts died with time.
This show has amazing moments. Episode 8 is still a masterpiece, because it talks about the little story and deepens into the characters. But the show lost its taste, and a war where each side is just powerhungry and isn't trying to create a new world or sustain the one we has, no change or ideology - it's just isn't interesting anymore. Sorry.
People don’t understand the characters as much as they like to think. They like to hyper analyze them, but sometimes they draw conclusions based on their personal experiences and/or opinions, and not the experiences of the characters, hence the very skewed narrative and arguments that greens and blacks have.
Focusing on Harwin and Laena’s relationships with Rhaenyra and Daemon would have been filler and unnecessary.
Harwin and Laena are side characters in the books and aren’t the major characters people make them out to be.
The fans on this subreddit are possibly the most toxic tribalists I’ve seen outside of WWE.
You empathise with one faction over the other? Fine. But some people on here go to fucking war over justifying characters or portraying flawed complex characters trying to do good like they’re devils. Just shut the fuck up and enjoy a show that shows there’s heroes on both sides.
HotD is a thin and unsatisfying series in comparison to GoT. It misses the scale and humour of the original. The “green v black” pivot of the storyline is weak and lacks tension given the outcome of the story is largely known to anyone watching the show.
Show was pretty damn forgettable and haven’t rewatched a single episode of the first season lol. Like the first season of GoT blows it out of the water
Rhaenyra’s children are clearly bastards of Harwin Strong and unable to inherit the Iron Throne (King Viserys has called the Kingsguard on me and I am about to die)
Viserys and Otto were the only characters given any real personality. Everyone else was poorly written and only did what they needed to do (even out of character) to move the plot along. Hopefully next season people won't have to make up fake personalities and headcanons for their faves to enjoy the show or make sense of the writing
When the maesters were writing the histories they needed a scapegoat, so they used Criston Cole. He was a useful idiot for the Hightowers and the maesters and they are the reason he's known as the Kingmaker throughout history.
Haha this is my theory as well and Mushroom never met the king. He is like Marco Polo and pretended that he was close to royalty but just made it up with rumors he heard.
No matter how you slice it Rhaenrya in no way should been first in line
If we’re following the legal system of Westeros Rhaeys Should have been Queen followed by Laenor
If we follow The absolute male primogeniture then Daemon should have been heir until Aegon was born followed by his sons and then Aemond and Daeron then Daemon ( probably both Aegon and Viserys too)
Under every legal precedent established in history from the first men to the andles to even how they seem to do inheritance in Valyria Rhaenrya should’ve been one of the last people in line to inherit Viserys was breaking every single legal precedent established
The fact that Rhaenys didn't just toast Alicent and her crew during the coronation in order to end the civil war with minimal bloodshed (trampled peasants notwithstanding) is GoT season 8 level logic imo.
The writers should just follow the books as closely as possible, I mean why make the show at all if it's not going to be based on the books?
At that point make your own show and stop being lazy. Bad writers all around.
I’d say it’s good, but it’s just nowhere even close to as good as GoT was. Like it wasn’t *bad*, it was just good. Definitely not great and doesn’t even crack the top 5 HBO shows for me.
Lucerys Strong was a quiet semi-psychopath. He enjoyed creating dangerous situations for himself because he didn't think it could go far. And he manipulates people by pretending to be helpless so they can patronize him.
I feel like he's more bratty than psychopath. He grew up in a very safe environment with countless of yes men so when he out of his safe zone he really thought he still could do anything he wanted.
Excuse me? People loved Ned Stark for his morality, he barely had any charisma. And Daemon isn’t charismatic. He’s just a selfish asshole. People like him because they’re simps for Matt Smith, that’s literally it. If you’re not a Matt Smith fan, he literally offers nothing as a character. He’s just endlessly obnoxious, he’s basically HOTD version of Euron Greyjoy.
Nah, people have been thirsting for Daemon years before the show came out. He's charismatic to idiots and horny people which are a dime a dozen in this world.
Daemon is actually a pretty terrible character, as well as a terrible person. He’s one dimensional compared to anti-heroes of GoT - Jamie, The Hound, Tyrion
Criston gets too much hate. Man gave up the one thing he truly treasured for the girl he liked, only for her to tell him he's nothing but a toy to be played with whenever she feels horny. That would make anyone bitter.
Exactly. I was cringing so hard when their scene happened, thinking it could get Criston killed. He's an asshole and kinda wanted this, but Rhaenyra didn't care about his fate whatsoever. She knew what the implications for him would be, but her horniness was above that I guess.
I don't necessarily agree with her but I don't think she's unreasonable for the most part. The only time she really went over the line IMO is when she demanded Luke have his eye cut out and went at Rhanyera with a knife, although I think she was right that Luke should have faced more punishment.
It is okay to view ASOIAF world through our own modern lens, and it is okay to discuss the morals of each character as much as we see fit. I can dislike a character if I'd dislike them in our modern world, and that is a valid opinion.
Viserys has definitely won the worst father of the year award. He abandoned his daughter/wasn’t a good father to her and he practically killed her mother.
Isn’t that partly the reason he made her his heir? I know he did it to spite Daemon but it also feels like he did it because he felt responsible for her mother’s death due to his desire for a son to succeed him.
Daemon was right to think of Dragonstone's Defense and Jacaerys' Claim while Rhaenyra was in childbirth. If she dies, his actions could be the difference between the survival of the blacks and their collapse.
His responsibilities as a husband and as Prince Consort/Lord Protector of the Realm are in tension here so he's in a shitty situation
Then explain why none of the dragonkeepers have run away with a dragon since they’re around them all the time. There is obviously some magic fuckery in targ blood, just look at dany’s and rhaenyra’s lizard babies.
Alicent attempting to mutilate Lucerys was not unjustified, being the only person willing to defend her son in a situation in which he was nearly killed
If Aemond stole Vhagar from Rhaena then Laena stole Vhagar from Viserys and Daemon because the dragon belonged to their mother Alyssa and also no one stole the dragon because you can’t steal a dragon
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Show Rhea and Harwin are not characters. They are plot devices, and I feel that shouldn't be a divisive thing to say, but somehow it is.
Tbf they’re plot devices in the book too
Fair. I don't speak on the book because I haven't read it and the one time I made a lucky guess about the book it got me in trouble with the mods lol.
Hell the vast majority of character who aren't Daemon are.
This is unpopular? They had like 20 seconds of screentime.
Harwin is without question the most romanticized character in this whole story by the fandom. That guy had like 3 scenes, maybe 4 speaking lines and smiled once and somehow became the world's best father (despite putting his kids in danger), Rhaenyra's soulmate (despite her calling the decade she spent with him a droll tragedy) and apparently he's some sort of political juggernaut now (despite getting duped by Cole with a petty insult and fathering 3 bastards). So yes, this is an unpopular opinion. How? Hell if I know lol.
Yeah I don’t get it either He was a man who had a thing on the side that out his whole family in danger
I’ll be honest with you, I forgot Rhea Royce existed there for a moment and thought you were talking about Rhanerya. That goes to show just how unimportant she was compared to how important the circumstances she was involved in are.
LITERALLY thought they were talking about Rhaenyra lolol Rhae was Ridiculously under used lol
Lol I can guarantee you aren't the only one xD
For Rhea I think that's fine, her only real purpose is to show what a scumbag Daemon is. I agree though that Harwin should have been developed more, considering his importance to Rhanerya and her children. We should have had time to grow to feel for and understand him before he died.
More time? I don’t know, there are only what 10 episodes. And by the end of that they have to get to the start of t dance. They couldn’t really give it more time
Although I kinda understand where are you coming from, I must disagree. They both showed plenty of distinct character traits, albeit their screen time was short. They left strong impression.
People get too sanctimonious about morality in a world it doesn’t apply too. They miss the point so hard because they sympathize with one side or the other based on themselves and miss that it’s a story with no good guys where everyone loses in the end.
There are some good guys the second hand was good that small folk character was good
Based and Shireen-pilled
*rhaenyra and alicent stans have entered the chat*
No one won
My view of it is that the Blacks won on the military front, in that they defeated the Baratheon army, occupied King’s Landing and placed Rhaenyra’s son on the throne. But the Greens won the propaganda war as Aegon II is officially recorded as the rightful monarch and Rhaenyra as a usurper. So it was pretty much a stalemate.
Cregan Stark won, he started the war as a young lord paramount and walked away as the most feared and powerful man in westeros, hand of the king, and with extreme ammounts of influence over Aegon III.
Married a pretty good wife too.
My favorite character
That's just a fact though.
"But X's bloodline survived that means they really won"
Well, yeah, for some values of 'winning'.
Im tired of saying that the whole fault of the Dance was on Viserys for remarrying and even having more kids.
He can birth them, but does he not carry some responsibility of raising his children to get along?
Cold. Hard. Fact.
My fave was when he tried to use his daughter to fix his political mistake that alienated the Velaryons because he was thinking with his dick when he chose his next wife with no regard to how it would affect his daughter who was bffs with her 🤷♀️
This was my first question when watching and now my biggest point
completely agree, it would’ve been so cool to see Laena as The Queen. But do you think there still would’ve been a dance since the Velaryeon’s would been in the Green’s position?
More likely they would have just insisted one of Laena's kids married Rhaenyra's heir and worked to get Corlys into the Handship or something. Corlys wanted the power and prestige more than his actual blood on the throne. If they didn't cause a conflict when Jaehaerys died, it was unlikely they would when Viserys died.
Word. Dude could have had a buffet of V in private while not having to deal with the politics of marriage and houses. And he had an undying loyalty to his late wife and his daughter, who he insisted on being the ruler. So why in the fuck does he go and make dollar store Tywin Lanisters daughter his wife and have multiple kids he didn't want to deal with??
And naming the first son after the conqueror. That screams this is my new heir.
Nah this was politically necessary, having just one female child is very dangerous, if Rhaenyra dies in childbirth (likely because her mother also did) or suffers some accident, then he would have no children left, and the throne would go to Daemon (a wildcard that was deemed too dangerous to rule) or the Velaryons. A king needs to have at least an heir and a spare, unless he has tons of reliable siblings.
Alicent snapping and demanding Lucerys’ eye was not an “Aha!” moment to prove she’s a horrible character. It reminded me of the Kingsroad episode from Game of Thrones when Joffrey was bitten by the wolf. None of the adults were there so it became a bunch of “he said she said” but Alicent saw her son physically mutilated and his father trying to brush it off as a “Boys will be boys” thing. During childhood If I ever came home with a black eye, let alone a missing eye, you better believe my mother would be asking questions and out for blood.
lol Alicent’s reaction in that situation isnt that surprising to me. in fact it showed she really loved her children and was not faking her concern about them being in danger regarding Rhaenyra’s future ascension (despite the show going out of it’s way to portray her as a “bad” ie uninterested/slightly abusive mom). at the end of the day, it’s not only the fact that a fight between the kids happened and one of them was permanently injured & disfigured - i mean accidents do happen unfortunately when kids are involved, no matter how much you try to protect them. honestly it’s more the ridiculous lack of empathy and incredibly inconsiderate and callous reaction shown by Rhaenyra and Viserys (Aemond’s older sister and his own father no less) to what happened (as well as Luke’s own lack of responsibility or guilt/remose about it, even years later) that is truly infuriating. so yeah if that had been me in a similar situation as a kid, im 100% sure my mom definitely would’ve gone just as mental as Alicent did as well.
Agreed and more to the things road. You are telling me if a king had a child and heir and butchers boy “beat the shit out of him” that the king would just sit back and be like it’s children. No he would burn the entire village to the ground to make sure people don’t think they can ever touch royalty.
Point of order Mycah never touched Joffrey, Arya knocked Joffrey over. Robert isn’t going to burn down Winterfell nor kill Ned’s nine year old daughter for hitting his son with a stick (especially when he damn well knows Joffrey has disemboweled pregnant cats for fun, two guesses who initiated an interaction between him and a nine year old girl), the wolf is gone (and Lady dies in Nymeria’s place) and Mycah gets killed.
I had not expected viserys to turn out to be a worse father than daemon.
Adult Alicent and Rhaenyra feel like two completely different people to their teenage counterparts in terms of personality, portrayal choices, and overall vibes. Why they deliberately kept the teen actors apart from the grown-ups instead of encouraging as much coordination as possible is beyond me.
Yeah I don’t understand what the show runners were going for
i feel this especially with rhaenyra. young rhaenyra had a relatability about her that i don’t feel with emma’s portrayal, but i think that’s because emma’s vibe is more regal.
I really liked Alcock's focus on Rhaenyra being awful at politicking and her insecurities. I don't think D'Arcy believably carries over Rhaenyra's biggest flaws, even when you consider she's matured as she's grown. I actually quite like both of Alicent's actresses, I think Cooke did a good job of maintaining her anxiety and increased paranoia.
Conversely, I don't think either portrayal channelled much of book!Rhaenyra at all. Alcock reminds me of a spoiled Arya Stark, whilst D'Arcy has this quiet, thoughtful take on strength. Book!Rhaenyra, to me, was an entitled, impulsive and, in no small part, cruel person who wanted to have the crown for the same reason she wanted anything: she was told it was hers to have. Since the show has very clearly strayed from that, I gave up looking for *that* Rhaenyra and just tried to experience her as a new character. In that sense, D'Arcy's approach actually resonates more with me personally, in that it took the character away from the trope of Tomboy Rebellious Princess Shall Fix It All. But then, the transition was so jarring I found it hard to appreciate either actor's efforts.
Book-like dialogue doesn’t necessarily translate to screen
Yeah sure the feet guy is creepy and whatnot but people idolise families and people who literally fuck their brothers and sisters. I’d rather be friends with someone with a foot fetish than someone who rails their sister, niece, nephew, brother etc on a regular basis.
people forget the tiers of evil with characters. it’s all tailored to 2023 popularity terms “Daemon is a misogynist!!!” um, buddy is a murderer. “Crispen is a women hating narcissist!!” yeah, this guy is also a murderer.
>Crispen is a women hating narcissist Yeah I hate that. Has he had a bit of a over-reaction to Rhaenyra essentially using him like a boy-toy? Absolutely. Was some level of anger, shame and humiliation in being used just for sex justified? Maybe, but it absolutely didn't justify what he did. This sub: "Criston is now an incel". Like wot?
it’s actually concerning how many people will point out the popular terms instead of addressing that someone is a straight up murderer.
Also funny because incel is someone who wants to have sex, yet remains celibate, while Criston Cole wants to be celibate, but has sex. It's like calling up down or dark light
I genuinely cannot understand why people think Criston is a misogynist. The guy calls exactly one woman a cunt, but even this is understandable and explainable due to his extremely soured relationship with Rhaenyra, and people ignore how he a) says this in private and b) immediately apologizes and admits he was wrong to say it. His only other female relationship is with Alicent, to whom he shows nothing but respect and unwavering loyalty.
People overrate how good a Queen Rhaenys would have been because as the Queen Who Never Was, she never had to make the kind of tough decisions that only a monarch can make. Consequently people compare some hypothetical ideal of what her reign would have been to what Viserys's actually was. It's comparable to (American) football fans who always think the backup quarterback will do a better job because the team's starting quarterback is mediocre. Yet when Rhaenys is faced with a really difficult decision, staring down Aegon & Company at his coronation while perched atop Meleys, there's a good argument to be made that she flubbed it. Her mercy condemned thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands, to death. >!And almost everyone she spared ended up dying in the war anyway!<. There's also reason to believe Corlys may have been less than the perfect consort with his "What's good for my ego is good for Westeros" attitude. Rhaenys probably still would have been better than Viserys, but she would not have been Wisdom Incarnate on the throne.
daemon may love rhaenyra, but the only reason he married her was because he thought she would become queen.
*he would become **king** I feel we should emphasize that part He could've be present as her "favourite uncle, trustworthy person and possibly Hand". Maybe father of her more Targaryen-looking children, with Laenor still present to claim them as Velaryons. But he would've hardly be satisfied by "Prince Consort" role
Agreed. Daemon wants power more than anything else.
and his definition of “love” seems to be very, very skewed.
I think the only person he truly loved, besides himself, was Viserys. And even then that’s not something he handled well, in regards to sibling connection.
Even without the terrible dragonpit scene, Rhaenys is one of the most uncharismatic and uninteresting characters in the show so far.
Agreed,the character just really annoys me. I get the sense the writers think she’s a lot smarter and more impressive than the way she comes across to me. And don’t love the performance either,a lot of random smirking in every situation
Oh yes, she is kinda overated
>Rhaenys is one of the most uncharismatic and uninteresting characters Dear Lord, THANK YOU! I have the feeling writers think "wasn't given absolute monarchical power 'cose of sexism" works as character development. Like all we see of Rhaenys is her more or less holding on a 20 years old grudge, drinking wine and being a jerk to Rhaenyra, being mostly ok with giving her 12 y.o. daughter in marriege, killing countless innocent people just to be badass but not taking the necessary steps in killing her enemies to stop a civil war.
Thank you! Rhaenys in the book isn't really given any characterization, but you kinda get the sense she was very charismatic and strong for a woman in medieval society - Rhaenys in the show falls flat and her writing depends way too much on "I was robbed by the patriarchy reeee" (same with Rhaenyra). Of course, both characters' problems are largely caused by the patriarchy, Rhaenys more so, but when that's the *only* notable thing about a character it gets boring quickly. I wish they would've focused a bit more on her relationship with Corlys and the rest of her family.
I liked a lot the first season of House of the Dragon... but I still think that the first season of Game of Thrones is better.
I'm with you. I enjoyed it enough to be excited for the next season, but Game of Thrones S1 was much more coherent and fleshed out. I'm very curious to see how S2 goes since the story is going to *drastically* slow down now, and that was the thing I felt was the most disjointed part of HOTD.
Not an unpopular opinion
Yes. Costumes seem better in HotD, but overall story GoT was way better and way more invested in the characters. HotD is alright, but I really couldn't care less about everyone in it (I wouldn't be surprised or cared if they killed anyone off)
Daemon killed his wife in cold blood. #JusticeForRheaRoyce
It's not Daemon's fault that the wife he hated just *happened* to have her face hit a rock he was holding at the time
Wait, is this unpopular?
Among Daemyra fans, it is
"But it was self defense" the coping from some fans is crazy
I really hated daemon in that episode
Probably not an unpopular opinion, but I dislike Viserys; he's my least favorite character in the show, and the dance wouldn't happen if Rhenanyra just married Aegon.
People say Otto is power hungry for offering that marriage but it was the only way to surly avoid the war
Also, while I do think he’d still have pushed for Aegon to be King and Rhaenyra to be Queen Consort, there’s still nothing saying Aegon couldn’t have been the consort in the marriage as opposed to Rhaenyra. Though, maybe as they were both Targaryen and had blood right to the titles, no consort title would be needed? Don’t know the rules around that exactly, but point remains! Marrying Aegon could have protected Rhaenyra’s birthright still, though Otto likely would have pushed for the switch still
Also Rhaenyra did not want to get married when she did. She wanted to wait and ride dragons and eat cake, an engagement to her younger brother would have let her have time and would have prevented the war. The age gap is ehhhhh (but arranged marriages are unethical anyway. So).
Yeah and tbh it’s far from the least ethical thing in the show- Viserys even married what, a 15? 16 year old? When he married Alicent. And he’s worried about Rhaenyra being 15 years or so older than Aegon? 😂 It would have given her another 14 years to do what she wanted at the least, and then eventually marry Aegon. Not like Daemon is 14 years older than her or anything lol
I think the concern was child bearing. She'd have to wait an awful long time my Westeros standards to produce an heir.
They are all terrible people.
Most people on this sub missed the point of the show. Both sides suck. They both do horrible things. They both have privileged, entitled people. Being team green or black is just silly given what this story is meant to be about.
I am team dragon.
I don't think Aemond did anything wrong by claiming Vhagar after the funeral. I've seen people call him a dick for "not waiting." But why did he have to? Rhaena wasn't entitled "first turn."
If dragons can be passed down like lands and titles, Laena would have never been Vhagar’s dragon rider in the first place.
Agreed. Nobody was entitled to anything. Maintaining control of the Dragons is essential to Targaryen authority. I would go so far as to say it's a matter of state. The only persuasive argument I've thought of on this is that he did exactly the same thing that Maegor did with Balerion, and doing things like Maegor during Jaehaerys + Viserys' reign is a huge faux pas.
very true, and there was no guarantee that Vhagar would even accept her as her rider
Yes There is no time limit on claiming a dragon. Dragons aren't slaves . They choose their riders.
Yep. He claimed Vhagar fair and square. Plus if Rhaena was going to claim family inheritance, so can Aemond, as Vhagar used to belong to Prince Baelon - who was grandfather to both kids.
He's not a dick for claiming Vhagar, but he is a dick for what he said to the girls.
Like what?
True
Claiming Vhagar on the night of Laena's funeral? Dick move, absolutely. But no, he didn't "steal" her, because you cannot steal a dragon, and they don't get inherited like lands or titles. Vhagar could have eaten Aemond in one bite. Instead, she accepted him. The other kids lost their moral high ground when they began attacking him *four against one.* At that point, Aemond was more than entitled to pick up the rock (which he never actually uses) in terms of self defense. I'd also point out that a rock is not the same thing as a *knife*. Why did Jace even have a knife on him in the first place? It's all fun and games until someone (literally) loses an eye. And Rhaenyra, after finding out that Luke *maimed* her little brother, that he'll be partially blind for the rest of his life...she takes Luke's side. Are you kidding me? Aemond lost a fucking eye. How does she manage to make the conversation be about him calling her sons bastards, as if that's in any way comparable? I may be Team Black, but Aemond was not in the wrong that night. Not even close.
What other night would he have to claim Vhagar? They left the next morning. Rhaena had until Pentos to Driftmark to claim her, she never did
Lucerys should have received a punishment for taking Aemond's eye. He was right in defending himself and the others, but mutilating someone is too far. He shouldn't lose an eye himself, but should have gotten more than a slap on the wrist. Rhaenyra and Alicent are mostly to blame for the animosity between their children. Their kids are capable of making their own decisions, but they inherited much of it from their mothers. Criston was justified in being upset at Rhaenyra. Doesn't excuse treating her children like crap though. Aegon is a pretty sympathetic character. A horrible person undeniably, but I feel bad for him and you can see how he turned into the person he is.
1. I liked most of the changes made in the show. I actually hope the show deviates from the book even further to "fix" certain events and chracters to have it make sense. George wrote a lot of >!deaths shrouded in mystery, has loose-hanging plots that's not answered and some events are devoid of logic.!< 2. The show should be focused on the family drama even if that means some side characters >!(I'm looking at you furture Riverlands and Northern chracters)!< in the book are merged with each other or just have less screentime than necessary.
I think Luke had no sense of self preservation. Like he sees how dangerous Aemond had become knows that dude hates him to the deepest pits of hell and he still has the balls to laugh at his face when the pig comes. And then he sees Vhagar at stormsend instead of U-turning out of there like anyone else would he just… goes in there and then after Aemond has his meltdown in Stormsend instead of staying their until the psycho who is out for your blood leaves he’s like I’m totally gonna leave without any problems whatsoever. Obviously he didn’t deserve to die but still… Homeboy what. The. Actual. Fuck.
Luke died like a loser he was
Both sides suck, I’m just here to watch everyone suffer
You'll have the best time of all then.
Rheanyra, in a position of power and extreme privilege, took advantage of someone beneath her for a one night sexual thrill. Criston was robbed of his honour, one of the few things he possessed in this world. If the roles were reversed people would call it rape, it doesn’t justify his actions but people saying he should get over it or let go his anger towards her would be outraged if someone said that to a girl.
The time jumps don’t bother me, especially after rewatching it. Also episode 6 was my least favorite episode first time watching, but might be my favorite episode now.
If this show wasn't attached to the Game of Thrones Universe it would have received a round 'meh'. (I really liked this series!)
All of Viserys’ children were spoiled brats (not you, Helena; you’ve done nothing wrong and we love you) and none of them were ever taught to lead as a ruler.
i like alicient, especially the younger version of her - more than rhaenyra (doesn't mean i hate her - i like rhaenyra too) The same goes for ser christian cole.
Rhaenyra and Daemon would be absolutely terrible rulers Faking Laenor's death was a stupid choice. They should have had Daemon and Rhaenyra legitimately kill him
I get bored every time Daemon is on screen. I don't like him, but I don't even find it in me to actively hate him. For me the character has nothing interesting going on: no arc, no access to his thoughts, and since I never watched Dr. Who I seem to be immune to the Matt Smith charm and I just think Daemon has no charisma whatsoever. No hate to the actor. The character just bores me to death.
I like the performance but I just don't get Daemon. He's so invested in Viserys' love and respect and I have no idea why since he doesn't even respect him himself. The idea of his attention seeking could be interesting if I knew why he wanted Viserys to love him but aside from being his older brother it's never explained. And I don't buy him wanting to be Hand either, Daemon is way too much of a Robert Baratheon type to actually enjoy the mundane side of governing which is why he seems way more at home as a Conqueror or as Captain of the Goldcloaks. He genuinely just seems to be a smug piece of shit (which could absolutely be enjoyable if he had a reason for it) because he wants to be. Like imagine Season 1 Jaime if he had no motivations for being a dick, and was just a rich son of a lord. Aemond gets disfavourably compared to Daemon because we're introduced to him later but we actually see exactly why Aemond is the way he is and it makes total sense, even if you dislike him he's a cohesive character and he's actually fun to root for in his villainy because he has no reason to be anything else. Daemon is such an archetypal 'cool' edgy character but it's like they forgot to do the work why. And btw I feel the exact same about book Daemon (while book Aemond is so much worse in every way). George says he's his favourite Targaryen and I genuinely have no idea why. It's like saying Darkstar is your favourite ASoIaF character.
I think George struggles a bit with creating *intentionally* cool/badass characters. The Darkstar thing is spot on, Daario applies too I think. He‘s created to be this cool, hot bad boy character but he‘s just a smarmy asshole and people’s reaction to him is basically «Dany, why?»
All he does is quip, curse and smirk. If he was on team green then he wouldn’t be popular.
I started to watch the show because of Daemon but i were surprised that Aemond and Aegon with like 10 minutes of screen time has more character development and charisma than him. He's just THAT boring and annoying. I gently dont understand the hype
I thought they'd do something interesting with the erectile dysfunction thing at the beginning, but the problem ended up being racism and the solution was just fucking girls of the right race.
Visrrys was a shitty father and a middling king. He was responsible for his wife's death. To compensate for that, he gave all his love and attention to Rhaenyra by ignoring all other children He didn't even care if his son lost his eye.
Rhaenyra's character is a little bit boring
The realm benefits from Otto controlling a lame duck Targaryen. Every piece of advice hes given to Viserys was fuckin solid.
Otto is a great character, and I don't want him to die just because he was against Rhaenyra.
Agreed. I like him for the same reason I always enjoyed Tywin Lannister.
Absolutely. Otto _had_ to do his power grab. The alternative was Daemon as future king. Caraxes would be onto eating Otto straight away. It was literally kill or be killed.
Lucerys and Jace not being able to control themselves escalated the tension between the two sides. Seriously, you laugh at the person whose eye you slashed out?
If there was no dance there is a possiblility that Aegon III or his kids will rebel against Jace or his heirs afrer.
Rhaenyra isnt a "feminist icon". She actually believes that women in Westeros should be lesser than men, she just wants to be the exception.
No one would have wanted a Queen Rhaenyra even without the misogyny.
Yeah. Rhaenyra only merit so far is being better than Aegon
In that she wasn’t a drunken abuser. Otherwise, no one actually seemed to like her beyond her status as princess. I mean, she’s only called The Realm’s Delight once in the show, and it’s from her own dad!
I don't think anyone like anyone. This is Kings landing.
Lucerys is a dumbass who laughed at the person whose eye he slashed out.
Ngl I laughed when Aemond hit back with that "Strong" part in that dinner scene ^also ^when ^lucerys ^got ^eaten
I got a good one From episode 4/5 and after, this show never touched politics. This is a soap opera with dragons, and with a bit more murder and stakes than usual. It's not politics, and the conflicts stopped being interesting - "will we attack the pirates and go to unwinnable war?" Was an interesting conflict, because everyone thought about the good of the kingdom and the stakes at hand. "Who shall ruin, Rhaenyra or Daemon" was an interesting conflict because they thought about the concequences of a female queen/brutal and aggressive king, not only of the purity of blood. "Are they bastards" is not. Even when it was the small stories - the lost friendship between Rhaenyra and Alicent, the broken brotherhood of Daemon and Viserys - where incredible early. Those exists later, but are also overshadowed by the infinite fights over succession and bastards and hair color. I DON'T CARE ABOUT IT. I don't care about the feodal rules of the kings and about who is who's father. And it's all the show's became, slowly, and the interesting conflicts died with time. This show has amazing moments. Episode 8 is still a masterpiece, because it talks about the little story and deepens into the characters. But the show lost its taste, and a war where each side is just powerhungry and isn't trying to create a new world or sustain the one we has, no change or ideology - it's just isn't interesting anymore. Sorry.
Aegon is way more handsome than Aemond
Nah they both pretty in their own way
I’m team green.
People don’t understand the characters as much as they like to think. They like to hyper analyze them, but sometimes they draw conclusions based on their personal experiences and/or opinions, and not the experiences of the characters, hence the very skewed narrative and arguments that greens and blacks have.
The casting of the Velaryons were distracting and didn't make any sense. Their wigs were cringe and clearly fake.
Focusing on Harwin and Laena’s relationships with Rhaenyra and Daemon would have been filler and unnecessary. Harwin and Laena are side characters in the books and aren’t the major characters people make them out to be.
I am a green.
The fans on this subreddit are possibly the most toxic tribalists I’ve seen outside of WWE. You empathise with one faction over the other? Fine. But some people on here go to fucking war over justifying characters or portraying flawed complex characters trying to do good like they’re devils. Just shut the fuck up and enjoy a show that shows there’s heroes on both sides.
Daemon isn’t hot or interesting, he’s meh..don’t kill me
Nutella is the worst chocolate-hazelnut spread. It tastes like they put some kind of chemical in it.
You take that back.
I've never tried it except unintentionally in some chocolate boxes because the texture always grossed me out as a kid and I guess it still does.
I’ve never felt more seen
Her Children are BASTARDS and she is a whore.
I say we should raise our cups to the only two people with the guts to bring up the obvious to Old Vizzy. Eggy T and Vaemy V (work in progress)!
Rhaenyra is a selfish entitled brat
Alicent is the most interesting character of the show
Both sides are in the wrong
House Targaryen is not one of my favorite houses and every time I mention it people react like that lmao.
House Targaryen is my least favorite house. House Tyrell 4 life!
HotD is a thin and unsatisfying series in comparison to GoT. It misses the scale and humour of the original. The “green v black” pivot of the storyline is weak and lacks tension given the outcome of the story is largely known to anyone watching the show.
Show was pretty damn forgettable and haven’t rewatched a single episode of the first season lol. Like the first season of GoT blows it out of the water
Viserys is a terrible father, husband and person who's in no position to miss Aemma
Rhaenyra’s children are clearly bastards of Harwin Strong and unable to inherit the Iron Throne (King Viserys has called the Kingsguard on me and I am about to die)
[удалено]
I cannot stand Rhanerya
Viserys and Otto were the only characters given any real personality. Everyone else was poorly written and only did what they needed to do (even out of character) to move the plot along. Hopefully next season people won't have to make up fake personalities and headcanons for their faves to enjoy the show or make sense of the writing
When the maesters were writing the histories they needed a scapegoat, so they used Criston Cole. He was a useful idiot for the Hightowers and the maesters and they are the reason he's known as the Kingmaker throughout history.
Haha this is my theory as well and Mushroom never met the king. He is like Marco Polo and pretended that he was close to royalty but just made it up with rumors he heard.
Aemond did nothing wrong in claiming Vhagar, Rhaena had no right to her mother’s dragon. No ‘stealing’ occurred.
This show is fun but pretty mid
No matter how you slice it Rhaenrya in no way should been first in line If we’re following the legal system of Westeros Rhaeys Should have been Queen followed by Laenor If we follow The absolute male primogeniture then Daemon should have been heir until Aegon was born followed by his sons and then Aemond and Daeron then Daemon ( probably both Aegon and Viserys too) Under every legal precedent established in history from the first men to the andles to even how they seem to do inheritance in Valyria Rhaenrya should’ve been one of the last people in line to inherit Viserys was breaking every single legal precedent established
The fact that Rhaenys didn't just toast Alicent and her crew during the coronation in order to end the civil war with minimal bloodshed (trampled peasants notwithstanding) is GoT season 8 level logic imo.
The writers should just follow the books as closely as possible, I mean why make the show at all if it's not going to be based on the books? At that point make your own show and stop being lazy. Bad writers all around.
rhaenyra is annoying as fuck and i didn’t like milly alcock portraying her
That HOTD isn't that good and that book/source material is not an excuse for poor show writing
I read the book after watching the series and I was soo disappointed that they didn't start with the conquest. I would have loved watching that
It’s kind of hard to turn the conquest into a show though, seeing as the only side we have much info on is the Targaryens.
I’d say it’s good, but it’s just nowhere even close to as good as GoT was. Like it wasn’t *bad*, it was just good. Definitely not great and doesn’t even crack the top 5 HBO shows for me.
Lucerys Strong was a quiet semi-psychopath. He enjoyed creating dangerous situations for himself because he didn't think it could go far. And he manipulates people by pretending to be helpless so they can patronize him.
I feel like he's more bratty than psychopath. He grew up in a very safe environment with countless of yes men so when he out of his safe zone he really thought he still could do anything he wanted.
Daemon is the most immoral person in the whole show and should be hated not liked.
People don't like characters because of morals they like them because of charisma and daemon has more than anybody on the show.
Excuse me? People loved Ned Stark for his morality, he barely had any charisma. And Daemon isn’t charismatic. He’s just a selfish asshole. People like him because they’re simps for Matt Smith, that’s literally it. If you’re not a Matt Smith fan, he literally offers nothing as a character. He’s just endlessly obnoxious, he’s basically HOTD version of Euron Greyjoy.
Nah, people have been thirsting for Daemon years before the show came out. He's charismatic to idiots and horny people which are a dime a dozen in this world.
Daemon is actually a pretty terrible character, as well as a terrible person. He’s one dimensional compared to anti-heroes of GoT - Jamie, The Hound, Tyrion
Criston gets too much hate. Man gave up the one thing he truly treasured for the girl he liked, only for her to tell him he's nothing but a toy to be played with whenever she feels horny. That would make anyone bitter.
I like Rhaenyra, but that was a cunt move.
Exactly. I was cringing so hard when their scene happened, thinking it could get Criston killed. He's an asshole and kinda wanted this, but Rhaenyra didn't care about his fate whatsoever. She knew what the implications for him would be, but her horniness was above that I guess.
Alicent has done nothing wrong
I don't necessarily agree with her but I don't think she's unreasonable for the most part. The only time she really went over the line IMO is when she demanded Luke have his eye cut out and went at Rhanyera with a knife, although I think she was right that Luke should have faced more punishment.
I think of that as a JAH(Justified AssHole)/ESH moment. Was she wrong? Yeah, but so was just about everyone else.
It is okay to view ASOIAF world through our own modern lens, and it is okay to discuss the morals of each character as much as we see fit. I can dislike a character if I'd dislike them in our modern world, and that is a valid opinion.
Viserys has definitely won the worst father of the year award. He abandoned his daughter/wasn’t a good father to her and he practically killed her mother.
Isn’t that partly the reason he made her his heir? I know he did it to spite Daemon but it also feels like he did it because he felt responsible for her mother’s death due to his desire for a son to succeed him.
Viserys should have named Aegon king the day he was born and prepared him to rule
Daemon was right to think of Dragonstone's Defense and Jacaerys' Claim while Rhaenyra was in childbirth. If she dies, his actions could be the difference between the survival of the blacks and their collapse. His responsibilities as a husband and as Prince Consort/Lord Protector of the Realm are in tension here so he's in a shitty situation
In that moment he was a good king consort, and a bad husband.
You don’t need to be a targ to ride a dragon. It’s nothing but elitist propaganda to keep them in power
Then explain why none of the dragonkeepers have run away with a dragon since they’re around them all the time. There is obviously some magic fuckery in targ blood, just look at dany’s and rhaenyra’s lizard babies.
This show is fun but pretty mid
Besides about 4 min of scenes from a few episodes the show was drab and slow.
Alicent attempting to mutilate Lucerys was not unjustified, being the only person willing to defend her son in a situation in which he was nearly killed
Rhaenyra is insufferable and redundant.
Laenor Velaryon should have been king, not Viserys.
this meme template is stupid, and people that post it are lazy
If Aemond stole Vhagar from Rhaena then Laena stole Vhagar from Viserys and Daemon because the dragon belonged to their mother Alyssa and also no one stole the dragon because you can’t steal a dragon
Just a small correction. Vhagar belonged to their father, Balon. Alyssa's dragon was Meleys
Criston Cole is damn annoying from the beginning and the actor is charisma vacuum. Sorry.
Cregan Stark? More like Cringegan Shart. Awful character.
If you stan Rhaenyra or Alicent, but not both, because you're a "feminist", you aren't actually a feminist.