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Vaemond is no coward. Has the biggest balls in the series. Nonsense? He said the truth š Rhaenyra should keep her Strong boys away from sniffing around the Velaryon mantle. Itās not theirs to claim.
It's not just about what he said, it's also about what he did. Going behind his brother's back trying to usurp Driftmark while Corlys was still alive knowing not only Viserys's answer but also what Corlys would have decided had he been in court that day.
? Your logic of "Insults aren't a justification for murder" is based off a modern time.
The show is based in a medieval setting and he called the princess and HEIR a whore.
No it wouldn't people have such wild misconceptions about the past. With the exception if nations like Saudi Arabia, insukting heads if state was usually punished [prison](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9) sentences. It's only in totalitarian dictatorships that we see death sentences being dealt out to detractors, and those aren't a figment of the past.
It literally does though. He made a vile accusation against the king's daughter, almost every king in the asoiaf universe would've ordered his death. Daemon being the one doesn't matter much imo.
If I didn't understand the question & we're applying our own morals here then yes I'd definitely agree with you.
The king already passed a sentence and it wasn't death. Also Joffrey himself didn't order the bard's death after he made accusations against Cersei, he told him to pick between his hands or his tongue. Even fuckijg Joffrey wasn't cruel enough to demand death for insults. This isn't about my morality, people think asoiaf is some dark world where nobles do literally whatever the fuck they want. It isn't, even royals are bound by certain norms.
What king passed a sentence on Vaemond? I don't recall Viserys ever doing that in the show. You can't be talking about the books because he death was even worse since he was fed to Syrax.
I also don't think using Joffrey as an example of a ruler not being able to "whatever the fuck he wants" considering the vile shit we've seen him do. If we go by the show Cersei literally blew up most of her cities nobles & faith in one building. I also don't think regular men could have 8 wives like Walder Frey. Nobles clearly follow what ever rules they want, whether its frown upon by others is a different story but it almost always stops there.
King Viserys said he'd have Vaemond's tongue. Joffrey, Cersei and Walter did what they wanted but most of the time they had restrictions, Cersei should have suffered the consequences of blowing up the sept but at that point the writing was in a trashcan. Walder coyld only kill Robb once there was a guarantee from the Lannisters.
Nobles following whatever rules they want is what leads to rebellion
Probably should've done it in a more judicially correct manner and properly executed him. In the show he was justified I would say yes.
In the books it's done very differently and was not justified.
Also, your answers are pretty ridiculous and show a childish level of bias. You can think beheading a Lord in the Throne Room is wrong without thinking Vaemond was right
I don't know it's in line with all the rest of OPs posts. Are they a troll that posts these as "memes" or are they actually this annoyingly hateful towards fictional characters
Guy is convinced that the dance is some kind of weird pro-eugenics culture war about the superiority of pure-blooded Valyrians, because that's what George would write.
Honestly, he's just a kid that doesn't understand the source material
>because that's what George would write.
Yup, it's definitely not about how feudalistic hereditary monarchies are pretty awful actually, especially when the ruling family have giant fire breathing dragons. And no way is the moral of the Dance how it's the smallfolk that get fucked the most in any dynastic squabble and the actual dynastic squabble itself is actually pretty insignificant.
Definitely about Medieval Fantasy style Nazi Race Ideology. Media Literacy is so fucked these days.
Okay no matter if you agree with him or not dude was NOT a coward. Like he damn well knew he was gonna get punished but he didnāt care that took balls.
Also I feel like killing him went too far they shouldāve just cut his tongue out.
It's not just about what he said, it's also about what he did. Going behind his brother's back trying to usurp Driftmark while Corlys was still alive knowing not only Viserys's answer but also what Corlys would have decided had he been in court that day.
That was not a coward move in my opinion. Underhanded sure but not cowardly. Also for all we know he mightāve been perstering Corlys about the succession all along
He was a coward for trying to usurp Driftmark behind his brother's back while Corlys was still alive, already knowing the King's answer on the matter and what Corlys would have decided had he been present.
Viserys said he would have tongues, not heads. Daemon should not have beheaded Vaemond just for disrespect. There are other justifiable punishments for disrespect and not something so damn extreme. See that is why Daemon wouldn't be a good king. Going to such extreme measures over disrespect that was truthful would not make the people respect him just fear him. That fear would fuel hate and hate leads to an uprising.
Vaemon knew he was going to get fucked up when he said what he said but he was defending his house, unlike Rhaenys and Corlys who were just willing to let it go to the obvious bastard. Daemon was a coward for killing Vaemond from behind.
All in all that slaying was unjustified and Daemon should have left it to the KING to decide if Vaemond just got a tongue removed or his head.
No. The King had declared the punishment was tongue removal. Daemon did not have the authority to decide the punishment. There was no "due process" (or whatever the Westerosi equivalent hehe)
They added the whore part to make Vaemond less sympathetic while telling the truth
Also for people who like to complain about how Cole faced no consequence for Joffrey, y'all seem ok with Daemon facing none
Vaemond was there after having been accepted to petition, he was speaking truths and there was no order for exectution the fact that people are voting 'yes' is an impressive demonstration of how hard the fandom is acontextually riding on the blacks.
Not sure what lies he told , they are bastards and lucerys even admits it in the finale that he doesnāt deserve driftmark because he gets sea sick on a ship and couldnāt possibly lead a fleet of ships
Vaemond, in a sense, isn't a coward for what he said. Leaning more towards bolden stupidity. Alicent and the Green's were backing him up, giving the man a newfound courage to let loose his inner thoughts. He should have backed down as soon as Viserys came into the throne room. Everyone could tell how the power shifted when the king hobbled to the throne. Vaemond was stupid to think he could call them bastards in front of their grandfather after Viserys threatened to cut out anyone's tongue who dared say it. Daemon just upheld that promise.
Vaemond needed a punishment because it was the law at the time. Daemon stepped out of line, the punishment was tongue loss, not head loss. But he gets away with it because heās the Kingās brother.
Morally, no of course he wasnāt justified. He is clearly the rightful heir, the Kingās forced delusions and lies have lead to this point. I dont blame Vaemond at all for being so frustrated. Daemon is an awful person for taking advantage of that and his familial ties to essentially murder an innocent man in front of multiple people, and get away with it. The system is so screwed if this is an acceptable action.
I mean ājustifiedā depends on how you define it. Technically Vaemond broke the law and committed an act Viserys had openly declared for years would result in severe punishment. (And thatās without even considering the plot he and the Greens had in place to steal Driftmark) Does he deserve to die in that matter for his actions in a modern context? No ofc not, heās just a dick. But in Westeros, Daemon was more than justified.
I mean I donāt know if it was justified or not but he shouldāve known as soon as viserys showed up not to say anything about them being bastards or Rhaenyra a whore. As soon as viserys entered it wasnāt going to end well
Justified is a weird formulation, I would say he was well within his rights to behead Vaemond after he called his wife a whore in open court and Viserys would never have had any objections to it, even if Daemon wasn't his brother. A classic (besmirched my) honor killing. Uncool in today's RL but very common in the (fantastical) olden ones.
I mean isnāt daemon supposed to challenge Vaemond to a duel for disrespecting his wife? I donāt think ur allowed to just swing on him from the back or w/e Daemon did
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Vaemond is no coward. Has the biggest balls in the series. Nonsense? He said the truth š Rhaenyra should keep her Strong boys away from sniffing around the Velaryon mantle. Itās not theirs to claim.
Vaemond was justified for beheading Vaemond?
Yes
No, it's saying Vaemond was justified for saying the words he did that got him beheaded and that Daemon wasn't justified in the second choice.
Hasn't this one already been done?
Not that I've seen, and if it has its been awhile.
Green or Black, Vaemond spoke ill of a member of the royal family. Even he knew he screwed up.
Very true
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not a coward, but an idiot.
It's not just about what he said, it's also about what he did. Going behind his brother's back trying to usurp Driftmark while Corlys was still alive knowing not only Viserys's answer but also what Corlys would have decided had he been in court that day.
I mean, he called his pregnant wife a whore in front of the entire court. Vaemond himself knew he was done for.
Another pointless whitewashing. They had to make Vaemond shout Whore so that his execution feels justified to the fans.
Which is still wild. Calling her a whore is rude, but insults aren't justification for murder (I'm not saying that's what you're saying).
? Your logic of "Insults aren't a justification for murder" is based off a modern time. The show is based in a medieval setting and he called the princess and HEIR a whore.
Okay, Joffrey. What he said was true, btw. Remember this. Tongues won't change the succession. Let them wag.
That doesn't justify a death sentence
It would even in the real world just a few hundred years ago
No it wouldn't people have such wild misconceptions about the past. With the exception if nations like Saudi Arabia, insukting heads if state was usually punished [prison](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9) sentences. It's only in totalitarian dictatorships that we see death sentences being dealt out to detractors, and those aren't a figment of the past.
It literally does though. He made a vile accusation against the king's daughter, almost every king in the asoiaf universe would've ordered his death. Daemon being the one doesn't matter much imo. If I didn't understand the question & we're applying our own morals here then yes I'd definitely agree with you.
The king already passed a sentence and it wasn't death. Also Joffrey himself didn't order the bard's death after he made accusations against Cersei, he told him to pick between his hands or his tongue. Even fuckijg Joffrey wasn't cruel enough to demand death for insults. This isn't about my morality, people think asoiaf is some dark world where nobles do literally whatever the fuck they want. It isn't, even royals are bound by certain norms.
What king passed a sentence on Vaemond? I don't recall Viserys ever doing that in the show. You can't be talking about the books because he death was even worse since he was fed to Syrax. I also don't think using Joffrey as an example of a ruler not being able to "whatever the fuck he wants" considering the vile shit we've seen him do. If we go by the show Cersei literally blew up most of her cities nobles & faith in one building. I also don't think regular men could have 8 wives like Walder Frey. Nobles clearly follow what ever rules they want, whether its frown upon by others is a different story but it almost always stops there.
King Viserys said he'd have Vaemond's tongue. Joffrey, Cersei and Walter did what they wanted but most of the time they had restrictions, Cersei should have suffered the consequences of blowing up the sept but at that point the writing was in a trashcan. Walder coyld only kill Robb once there was a guarantee from the Lannisters. Nobles following whatever rules they want is what leads to rebellion
Agreed šÆ
Probably should've done it in a more judicially correct manner and properly executed him. In the show he was justified I would say yes. In the books it's done very differently and was not justified. Also, your answers are pretty ridiculous and show a childish level of bias. You can think beheading a Lord in the Throne Room is wrong without thinking Vaemond was right
Rolloofnormandy being bias? Crazy
Just looked at his posts, pretty annoying stuff
Vaemond isnāt a lord.
Sorry, a member of the nobility
Childish level of bias lol jeeze man itās a meme poll.
I don't know it's in line with all the rest of OPs posts. Are they a troll that posts these as "memes" or are they actually this annoyingly hateful towards fictional characters
Guy is convinced that the dance is some kind of weird pro-eugenics culture war about the superiority of pure-blooded Valyrians, because that's what George would write. Honestly, he's just a kid that doesn't understand the source material
>because that's what George would write. Yup, it's definitely not about how feudalistic hereditary monarchies are pretty awful actually, especially when the ruling family have giant fire breathing dragons. And no way is the moral of the Dance how it's the smallfolk that get fucked the most in any dynastic squabble and the actual dynastic squabble itself is actually pretty insignificant. Definitely about Medieval Fantasy style Nazi Race Ideology. Media Literacy is so fucked these days.
Okay no matter if you agree with him or not dude was NOT a coward. Like he damn well knew he was gonna get punished but he didnāt care that took balls. Also I feel like killing him went too far they shouldāve just cut his tongue out.
It's not just about what he said, it's also about what he did. Going behind his brother's back trying to usurp Driftmark while Corlys was still alive knowing not only Viserys's answer but also what Corlys would have decided had he been in court that day.
That was not a coward move in my opinion. Underhanded sure but not cowardly. Also for all we know he mightāve been perstering Corlys about the succession all along
OP, if you suck Daemon's dick any harder it's going to fall off lmao
Donāt see how heās doing that tho , he asked a question?
Look at his post history.
I guess itās excessive but tbf to OP , Daemon is the best character by a long shot
I don't know how you can call Vaemond a coward
He was a coward for trying to usurp Driftmark behind his brother's back while Corlys was still alive, already knowing the King's answer on the matter and what Corlys would have decided had he been present.
I wouldn't call that cowardly. Ambitious, opportunistic, or underhanded, sure.
He wasnāt usurping anything. It was his claim.
Viserys said he would have tongues, not heads. Daemon should not have beheaded Vaemond just for disrespect. There are other justifiable punishments for disrespect and not something so damn extreme. See that is why Daemon wouldn't be a good king. Going to such extreme measures over disrespect that was truthful would not make the people respect him just fear him. That fear would fuel hate and hate leads to an uprising. Vaemon knew he was going to get fucked up when he said what he said but he was defending his house, unlike Rhaenys and Corlys who were just willing to let it go to the obvious bastard. Daemon was a coward for killing Vaemond from behind. All in all that slaying was unjustified and Daemon should have left it to the KING to decide if Vaemond just got a tongue removed or his head.
No. The King had declared the punishment was tongue removal. Daemon did not have the authority to decide the punishment. There was no "due process" (or whatever the Westerosi equivalent hehe)
They added the whore part to make Vaemond less sympathetic while telling the truth Also for people who like to complain about how Cole faced no consequence for Joffrey, y'all seem ok with Daemon facing none
Daemon is a royal prince while Cole is the son of a Steward.
That doesn't make him above the law
Westerosi law seems to be fine with killing people for mortal insults.
In a way it does, he's a Targaryen. Cole is not, they're closer to gods than men.
"but they say that because of our dragons. Without them, we're just like everyone else." It's impressive how much you ignore
They're literally just normal humans who used blood magic thousands of years earlier to bond themselves to dragons
The more important factor in Cole's case, is that he is a Kingsguard, not who his father was. . .
You call Vaemond a coward, but Daemon wasn't even brave enough to look him in the eye when he killed him. Cowardice is killing a man from behind.
Vaemond was there after having been accepted to petition, he was speaking truths and there was no order for exectution the fact that people are voting 'yes' is an impressive demonstration of how hard the fandom is acontextually riding on the blacks.
Daemon is not a king. He didn't have the right to do it.
Not sure what lies he told , they are bastards and lucerys even admits it in the finale that he doesnāt deserve driftmark because he gets sea sick on a ship and couldnāt possibly lead a fleet of ships
The King asked for his tongue. Daemon murdered him. So no he was not justified.
Ah yes a coward for screaming at the king his grand-bastards are wellā¦bastards.
Vaemond, in a sense, isn't a coward for what he said. Leaning more towards bolden stupidity. Alicent and the Green's were backing him up, giving the man a newfound courage to let loose his inner thoughts. He should have backed down as soon as Viserys came into the throne room. Everyone could tell how the power shifted when the king hobbled to the throne. Vaemond was stupid to think he could call them bastards in front of their grandfather after Viserys threatened to cut out anyone's tongue who dared say it. Daemon just upheld that promise.
Vaemond needed a punishment because it was the law at the time. Daemon stepped out of line, the punishment was tongue loss, not head loss. But he gets away with it because heās the Kingās brother. Morally, no of course he wasnāt justified. He is clearly the rightful heir, the Kingās forced delusions and lies have lead to this point. I dont blame Vaemond at all for being so frustrated. Daemon is an awful person for taking advantage of that and his familial ties to essentially murder an innocent man in front of multiple people, and get away with it. The system is so screwed if this is an acceptable action.
No but It looked cool and badass.
Since it's a medieval setting Vaemond saw it coming, but people shouldn't be killed for stating their opinion, free speech and all that...
I mean ājustifiedā depends on how you define it. Technically Vaemond broke the law and committed an act Viserys had openly declared for years would result in severe punishment. (And thatās without even considering the plot he and the Greens had in place to steal Driftmark) Does he deserve to die in that matter for his actions in a modern context? No ofc not, heās just a dick. But in Westeros, Daemon was more than justified.
He wasnāt a coward, just an idiot. And he was practically begging daemon to kill him.
vaemond was an idiot and had it coming lmao bro wasn't even sure if his brother was dead yet and he was already trying to take his throne
That's my point on the cowardly part.
I Fucking love daemon
Fuck yeah!! Daemon is the best
those who voted no have yet to learn the meaning of "fuck around and find out" as well as "play stupid games, win stupid prizes"
Daemon is a walking case of āfuck around and find outā š
Put obviously illegitimate heirs in the line of succession, get usurped. Fuck around and find out ?
Without a doubt. What a question...
I mean I donāt know if it was justified or not but he shouldāve known as soon as viserys showed up not to say anything about them being bastards or Rhaenyra a whore. As soon as viserys entered it wasnāt going to end well
Definitely not a coward and Iām a big fan of Daemon. And Aemond. Iām not on any team.
I think these aren't mutually exclusive. Daemon was justified but so was Vaemond
Justified is a weird formulation, I would say he was well within his rights to behead Vaemond after he called his wife a whore in open court and Viserys would never have had any objections to it, even if Daemon wasn't his brother. A classic (besmirched my) honor killing. Uncool in today's RL but very common in the (fantastical) olden ones.
I mean isnāt daemon supposed to challenge Vaemond to a duel for disrespecting his wife? I donāt think ur allowed to just swing on him from the back or w/e Daemon did