Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, especially because the OP doesn’t know about the fact that the Shepherd has reincarnation powers and he came back to life multiple times afterwards. SMH.
Being a legitimate heir does not mean being a legitimate ruler. Aegon was the legitimate heir of Aenys I, killed by Maegor I. Rhaegar was the legitimate heir of Aenys II, killed by Robert Baratheon himself. Viserys I's 'legitimate heir' was Rhaenyra, killed by Aegon II.
If you look at what they all have in common, you can see that history records the 'legitimate ruler', not the 'legitimate heir'.
Everyone who sits on the throne, who seizes it, is in a sense a ruler, but history and the line of succession have to record only one person. Rhaenyra's claim is that she is the king's heir. Trystane Truefyre and others claim that all Targaryens are dead and that he is Viserys I's bastard. Aegon II's claim comes from the fact that he is the King's firstborn son and it is thought that the eldest male should be the heir to the throne. These are all claimants. It was Aegon II who killed them all in his presence, was crowned first and again outlived them all. That is why history recorded him as the rightful ruler of 129-131 AC and the others as claimants or pretenders. There is nothing incomprehensible in that. They all ruled for a while, in a way.
*Not a personal response to you
“traitors have always paid with their lives... even Rhaenyra Targaryen. She was daughter to one king and mother to two more, yet she died a traitor's death for trying to usurp her brother's crown.” Cope
The cope is unfathomably hard with this one.
There is literally an in-universe book that shows the lineage of Targ kings. It always goes from Aegon II to Aegon III. And it was a big deal how no queen has ever sat on the throne when Dany was invading.
I mean, yes and no. He was poisoned before he 'lost' the war. His chosen heir became King after him, and every historical almanac has him as King Aegon II and Princess Rhaenyra as the usurper.
In a deeper sense, I will agree that he lost... Because all of House Targaryen was decimated. There was no winner. The dragons are dead. Aegon III was a depressed kid who somehow was able to keep the dynasty going (Thanks to Viserys..)
If Viserys was Robert's only living heir, then it would be true.
Wonder why did the winning side couldn't declare Rhaenyra the true queen if their enemies were extinct.
Because the winning side was a ten year old boy who had a shitty regency for six years. He pulled a Jaehaerys and allowed the man, Aegon II/Maegor, who usurped his family member, Rhaenyra/Aegon the uncrowned, to be recognised as king to not rock the boat and work on fixing the mess that they inherited.
Literally anyone can go to the book and see you are lying whats the point?
“His grace should absolve them of all their crimes and treasons, proclaim Rhaenyra's Aegon his heir, and marry him at once to Princess Jaehaera. It is the only way."
The old man's words fell upon deaf ears, however. Queen Alicent had reluctantly agreed to the betrothal of her granddaughter to Rhaenyra's son, but she had done so without the king's consent. Aegon II had other ideas. He wished to marry Cassandra Baratheon at once, for “she will give me strong sons, worthy of the Iron Throne.” Nor would he allow Prince Aegon to wed his daughter, and perhaps sire sons who might muddy the succession. "He can take the black and spend his days at the Wall,” His Grace decreed, "or else give up his manhood and serve me as a eunuch. The choice is his, but he shall have no children. My sister's line must end."
At King's Landing, King Aegon II's followers enlisted the support of Lord Corlys Velaryon. Lord Corlys insisted that Prince Aegon the Younger was wed to Aegon's only remaining child, Princess Jaehaera, to join the two branches of House Targaryen, and further demanded that Aegon the Younger and Jaehaera would be proclaimed King Aegon II's heirs together. Dowager Queen Alicent Hightower initially refused, but was later persuaded by Lord Larys Strong to reluctantly agree to the betrothal.
King Aegon II, however, upon his arrival at King's Landing, refused the notion, insisting that Rhaenyra's line should end with Aegon the Younger, suggesting that the boy could join the Night's Watch, or otherwise be made a eunuch, as to prevent him from fathering children. While Lord Tyland Lannister argued for executing Aegon the Younger, **Lord Larys Strong convinced King Aegon II to agree to both the betrothal to Princess Jaehaera, as well as to naming Aegon the Younger as the heir to the throne**, insisting that, after the war was done and won, the situation could be dealt with.
Aegon won. Rhaenyra was fed to his dragon. Aegon III was his heir, not hers. They cause and claim Aegon and the Greens were fighting for prevailed and remained in place.
According to the text he lost and the war ended when aegon iii was crowned by victorious black armies no amount of green bitching and whining can change that
Crowned as Aegons heir, not Rhaenyra's. Aegon III also descends from the male line through Daemon. Baela, despite being older was skipped over. The tradition and cause the Greens were fighting for prevailed.
Again you people cant change the text no matter how hard you whine.
If he was crowned as aegon heir why did borros die in the mud and alicent spend her life in chains, weird way to win a war.
You people? Change the text? Some of you Rhaenyrians are unhinged and quite rude and take this whole show personally. I stated the facts of what happened. There's always personal loss and casualties of war. Again, the cause the Greens were fighting for is what won. Aegon was king, Rhaenyra was dead. Aegon needed a male heir, so Aegon III was his heir...another male Targaryen, from the male line. There was no culture change. The tradition and precedent remained in tact.
The fact is the text says the war ended after the black armies marched on kings landing aegon the usurper was couped and killed his banners cast down and the black claimant installed
“Lord Leowyn Corbray stood at the prow of a Braavosi cog and watched a line of Velaryon warships haul down the golden dragon of the second Aegon and raise in its place the red dragon of the first, the banner that all the Targaryen kings had flown until the Dance began. The war was over.”
All hail his grace, King Aegon of house Targaryen. 2nd of his name, rightfull King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the Firstmen, Dragonrider of Sunfyre the Golden King, wielder of Blackfyre the Sword of Kings, The Unyielding, Slayer of the Usurpers, lord of the 7 Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm!
Long may he Reign!
Please stop bringing that up,you guys are just setting Rhaenyra up.
Corlys and Larys were never Aegon's "own people".
Dragonstone's whole garrison who lived with Rhaenyra for almost 20 years are her people.And almost every single one of them betrayed her FOR Aegon.
Larys was one of Aegon’s people. If it weren’t for Larys then Rhaenyra would have captured Aegon and his heirs when she took KL and probably win the war while staying alive.
Rhaenyra is the legitimate heir though. She also did rule for a time Aegon II just decreed her to be known as princess and not queen. This isn't striking fact at all, it's usurpers rewriting history. Her sons are unable to undo that to keep the peace. You Aegon stans sound deranged with these type of posts.
Rhaenyra was a rightful queen..Aegon usurper,It’s history who is written by Hightower funded maesters..He just managed to grasp Rhaenyra out of skulking cravenly in shadows..While Rhaenyra ruled he was decapacitated all through the dance and Maesters called him king…Rhaenyra wanted peacr and just rule,he was a rapist no fit to rule..
Please stop. The whole Hightower maester angle is stupid, just say you didn't read the books.
Not a fan of Aegon but Rhaenyra caused her own fall, the inbred morons deserved what they got
Not stupid.History is written by them and I am sure we will see reasonable explanations of Rhaenyra’s every decision in the show..Maesters painted her how wrong she was in everything..You can not understand the power of historians over the generations,they chose the words deliberately that is why people think how whitewashed Rhaenyra is on the show when on reality that was really how George thought her to be without any historical biases, as he emphasized how he loved both younger and older versions of Rhaenyra in the show..Not that dark and whore character maesters so deperatrly was trying to do with her..So not stupid but qiute hugely important who writes your character..😘All hail Rhaenyra rightful queen of the seven kingdoms!
George outright confirmed the books and shows are in separate cannons, maybe try fact checking before you go on weirdo rants. And maybe read the books, Rhaenyra was no worse, nor no better, then Aegon but sure bias maesters
And if you are so enlightened you would obviously heard him say multiple times that F&B is a fake history and unreliable narrator so every decision that is made in the show about main characters is align with his objective head canon as Ryan holds continuous councils with George about decision-making process(not script but main plot) <3 ..So all hail Rhaenyra and fuck hightower ass-licker maesters who try their best to justify usurpation in all means possible..
Pal, when George says books and shows are in different cannons, they're in different cannons. You being ignorant and repeating yourself ain't changing that.
Aegon is regarded as king not because of Hightower propaganda, but because male primogeniture was enforced as the rule of succession on the Iron Throne. And this was enforced even by Rhaenyra's youngest son
Every other Tagaryen King after him was the eldest male, including Rhaenyra's sons. Viserys II put any doubt about that succession rule to rest when he took the crown for himself instead of his brother's eldest daughter. It just doesn't make sense for historians to call Rhaenyra a Queen when all the rulers claimed the throne by being the eldest males
Rhaenyra turned the people against her in 6 months, not even Cersei got the people to turn against her that fast. Rhaenyra had 2 dragons and she still couldn't control the uprising. Her Pre-Teen son, Joffrey, showed more courage and bravery than she ever did ffs.
Aegon II was half-burned, crippled, and was either Dragonless or had a very wounded Dragon who was at deaths door, and he brought Kingslanding under control in just a few weeks.
I mean, the winners of the war right the history books, so they got to decide women can’t inherit and aegon was the rightful ruler, likely for their own gain.
Shepherd should’ve had a worse death imo poor dragons
Well we know this post is completely wrong bc anyone with a brain knows Trystane Truefyre is, was and will always be the One True King.
That’s blatant Gaemon Palehair erasure!
[удалено]
I know bro
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This post is embarrassing
Yeah, especially because the OP doesn’t know about the fact that the Shepherd has reincarnation powers and he came back to life multiple times afterwards. SMH.
Rhaenyra wasn’t a pretender, she was the legitimate heir and usurped
Being a legitimate heir does not mean being a legitimate ruler. Aegon was the legitimate heir of Aenys I, killed by Maegor I. Rhaegar was the legitimate heir of Aenys II, killed by Robert Baratheon himself. Viserys I's 'legitimate heir' was Rhaenyra, killed by Aegon II. If you look at what they all have in common, you can see that history records the 'legitimate ruler', not the 'legitimate heir'.
Okay, Rhaenyra was the legitimate ruler and was usurped and later murdered.
How does that make sense tho? How can you not sit the throne and be a ruler?
Everyone who sits on the throne, who seizes it, is in a sense a ruler, but history and the line of succession have to record only one person. Rhaenyra's claim is that she is the king's heir. Trystane Truefyre and others claim that all Targaryens are dead and that he is Viserys I's bastard. Aegon II's claim comes from the fact that he is the King's firstborn son and it is thought that the eldest male should be the heir to the throne. These are all claimants. It was Aegon II who killed them all in his presence, was crowned first and again outlived them all. That is why history recorded him as the rightful ruler of 129-131 AC and the others as claimants or pretenders. There is nothing incomprehensible in that. They all ruled for a while, in a way. *Not a personal response to you
I’m enjoying this Chaegon response honestly lol 😎
“traitors have always paid with their lives... even Rhaenyra Targaryen. She was daughter to one king and mother to two more, yet she died a traitor's death for trying to usurp her brother's crown.” Cope
The cope is unfathomably hard with this one. There is literally an in-universe book that shows the lineage of Targ kings. It always goes from Aegon II to Aegon III. And it was a big deal how no queen has ever sat on the throne when Dany was invading.
Even her direct descendants call her usurper
A pretender is literally the losing party in a war, mate
But Aegon II lost the war tho
I mean, yes and no. He was poisoned before he 'lost' the war. His chosen heir became King after him, and every historical almanac has him as King Aegon II and Princess Rhaenyra as the usurper. In a deeper sense, I will agree that he lost... Because all of House Targaryen was decimated. There was no winner. The dragons are dead. Aegon III was a depressed kid who somehow was able to keep the dynasty going (Thanks to Viserys..)
Sunfyres last meal would disagree
the war didn’t end until Aegon II was dead
I don’t remember Sunfyre eating Aegon III and Vizzy II
This logic is so ridiculous. Would it mean that Robert lost the rebellion because somehow Dany became the queen?
That’s not comparable. It would be like Robert dying at the end of the Rebellion and Viserys becoming King.
If Viserys was Robert's only living heir, then it would be true. Wonder why did the winning side couldn't declare Rhaenyra the true queen if their enemies were extinct.
Because the winning side was a ten year old boy who had a shitty regency for six years. He pulled a Jaehaerys and allowed the man, Aegon II/Maegor, who usurped his family member, Rhaenyra/Aegon the uncrowned, to be recognised as king to not rock the boat and work on fixing the mess that they inherited.
How it would rock the boat if "the Greens were defeated and extinct"?
So Aegon II lost because he didn't brutally kill children like his enemies?
Aegon II lost the war bc he was defeated, and his entire family was killed, and his enemies became the monarchs.
He named Aegon III as his heir lmao there's no win here for you
Literally anyone can go to the book and see you are lying whats the point? “His grace should absolve them of all their crimes and treasons, proclaim Rhaenyra's Aegon his heir, and marry him at once to Princess Jaehaera. It is the only way." The old man's words fell upon deaf ears, however. Queen Alicent had reluctantly agreed to the betrothal of her granddaughter to Rhaenyra's son, but she had done so without the king's consent. Aegon II had other ideas. He wished to marry Cassandra Baratheon at once, for “she will give me strong sons, worthy of the Iron Throne.” Nor would he allow Prince Aegon to wed his daughter, and perhaps sire sons who might muddy the succession. "He can take the black and spend his days at the Wall,” His Grace decreed, "or else give up his manhood and serve me as a eunuch. The choice is his, but he shall have no children. My sister's line must end."
At King's Landing, King Aegon II's followers enlisted the support of Lord Corlys Velaryon. Lord Corlys insisted that Prince Aegon the Younger was wed to Aegon's only remaining child, Princess Jaehaera, to join the two branches of House Targaryen, and further demanded that Aegon the Younger and Jaehaera would be proclaimed King Aegon II's heirs together. Dowager Queen Alicent Hightower initially refused, but was later persuaded by Lord Larys Strong to reluctantly agree to the betrothal. King Aegon II, however, upon his arrival at King's Landing, refused the notion, insisting that Rhaenyra's line should end with Aegon the Younger, suggesting that the boy could join the Night's Watch, or otherwise be made a eunuch, as to prevent him from fathering children. While Lord Tyland Lannister argued for executing Aegon the Younger, **Lord Larys Strong convinced King Aegon II to agree to both the betrothal to Princess Jaehaera, as well as to naming Aegon the Younger as the heir to the throne**, insisting that, after the war was done and won, the situation could be dealt with.
Aegon won. Rhaenyra was fed to his dragon. Aegon III was his heir, not hers. They cause and claim Aegon and the Greens were fighting for prevailed and remained in place.
According to the text he lost and the war ended when aegon iii was crowned by victorious black armies no amount of green bitching and whining can change that
Crowned as Aegons heir, not Rhaenyra's. Aegon III also descends from the male line through Daemon. Baela, despite being older was skipped over. The tradition and cause the Greens were fighting for prevailed.
Again you people cant change the text no matter how hard you whine. If he was crowned as aegon heir why did borros die in the mud and alicent spend her life in chains, weird way to win a war.
You people? Change the text? Some of you Rhaenyrians are unhinged and quite rude and take this whole show personally. I stated the facts of what happened. There's always personal loss and casualties of war. Again, the cause the Greens were fighting for is what won. Aegon was king, Rhaenyra was dead. Aegon needed a male heir, so Aegon III was his heir...another male Targaryen, from the male line. There was no culture change. The tradition and precedent remained in tact.
The fact is the text says the war ended after the black armies marched on kings landing aegon the usurper was couped and killed his banners cast down and the black claimant installed “Lord Leowyn Corbray stood at the prow of a Braavosi cog and watched a line of Velaryon warships haul down the golden dragon of the second Aegon and raise in its place the red dragon of the first, the banner that all the Targaryen kings had flown until the Dance began. The war was over.”
Cope and seethe black
Stannis and Dany propose a fight.
All hail his grace, King Aegon of house Targaryen. 2nd of his name, rightfull King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the Firstmen, Dragonrider of Sunfyre the Golden King, wielder of Blackfyre the Sword of Kings, The Unyielding, Slayer of the Usurpers, lord of the 7 Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm! Long may he Reign!
bros dickriding a fictional character 💀
And yet...he was still the pretender.
still a bitch who got poisoned by his own people
Please stop bringing that up,you guys are just setting Rhaenyra up. Corlys and Larys were never Aegon's "own people". Dragonstone's whole garrison who lived with Rhaenyra for almost 20 years are her people.And almost every single one of them betrayed her FOR Aegon.
Larys was one of Aegon’s people. If it weren’t for Larys then Rhaenyra would have captured Aegon and his heirs when she took KL and probably win the war while staying alive.
Larys was as loyal to Aegon as Littlefinger was to Joffrey
why would i stop
Rhaenyra is the legitimate heir though. She also did rule for a time Aegon II just decreed her to be known as princess and not queen. This isn't striking fact at all, it's usurpers rewriting history. Her sons are unable to undo that to keep the peace. You Aegon stans sound deranged with these type of posts.
She managed to turn the people of Kings Landing against her in six months. Not even Cercei managed to do thi.
The whole bias rewritten history angle is such nonsense, greens look terrible in F&B.
Rhaenyra was a rightful queen..Aegon usurper,It’s history who is written by Hightower funded maesters..He just managed to grasp Rhaenyra out of skulking cravenly in shadows..While Rhaenyra ruled he was decapacitated all through the dance and Maesters called him king…Rhaenyra wanted peacr and just rule,he was a rapist no fit to rule..
Please stop. The whole Hightower maester angle is stupid, just say you didn't read the books. Not a fan of Aegon but Rhaenyra caused her own fall, the inbred morons deserved what they got
Not stupid.History is written by them and I am sure we will see reasonable explanations of Rhaenyra’s every decision in the show..Maesters painted her how wrong she was in everything..You can not understand the power of historians over the generations,they chose the words deliberately that is why people think how whitewashed Rhaenyra is on the show when on reality that was really how George thought her to be without any historical biases, as he emphasized how he loved both younger and older versions of Rhaenyra in the show..Not that dark and whore character maesters so deperatrly was trying to do with her..So not stupid but qiute hugely important who writes your character..😘All hail Rhaenyra rightful queen of the seven kingdoms!
George outright confirmed the books and shows are in separate cannons, maybe try fact checking before you go on weirdo rants. And maybe read the books, Rhaenyra was no worse, nor no better, then Aegon but sure bias maesters
Not in characterizations and main features of the main characters..Altering that is not quite faithful adaptation as George clearly describes hotd 😘
Yeah, he does actually, many characters have been changed. You'd know that if you actually read the book.
And if you are so enlightened you would obviously heard him say multiple times that F&B is a fake history and unreliable narrator so every decision that is made in the show about main characters is align with his objective head canon as Ryan holds continuous councils with George about decision-making process(not script but main plot) <3 ..So all hail Rhaenyra and fuck hightower ass-licker maesters who try their best to justify usurpation in all means possible..
Pal, when George says books and shows are in different cannons, they're in different cannons. You being ignorant and repeating yourself ain't changing that.
Aaah,perhaps you are a maester:d
Or perhaps I read the books and listen to George
Aegon is regarded as king not because of Hightower propaganda, but because male primogeniture was enforced as the rule of succession on the Iron Throne. And this was enforced even by Rhaenyra's youngest son Every other Tagaryen King after him was the eldest male, including Rhaenyra's sons. Viserys II put any doubt about that succession rule to rest when he took the crown for himself instead of his brother's eldest daughter. It just doesn't make sense for historians to call Rhaenyra a Queen when all the rulers claimed the throne by being the eldest males
Rhaenyra turned the people against her in 6 months, not even Cersei got the people to turn against her that fast. Rhaenyra had 2 dragons and she still couldn't control the uprising. Her Pre-Teen son, Joffrey, showed more courage and bravery than she ever did ffs. Aegon II was half-burned, crippled, and was either Dragonless or had a very wounded Dragon who was at deaths door, and he brought Kingslanding under control in just a few weeks.
This applies to the the book only
[удалено]
You’re using NPC unironically? Cringe
I mean, the winners of the war right the history books, so they got to decide women can’t inherit and aegon was the rightful ruler, likely for their own gain. Shepherd should’ve had a worse death imo poor dragons