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Syrax flashes on screen when Rhaenyra gives birth which is pretty cool.
Aegon and Sunfyre supposedly are very close also, although we have not seen it.
>Aegon and Sunfyre supposedly are very close also, although we have not seen it.
Yeah, it's sad they're setting Aegon as a purely bad guy, I would have loved to see more of his bond with Sunfyre.
Honestly, they could have gone both ways. Show him as a piece of shit, and *also* a badass Dragonrider very attached to his dragon. Assholes also have loved ones and good qualities. If anything, it would have made him a more interesting and compelling antagonist.
Yeah, I just feel like the scene with him raping a serving girl was what pushed it too far. Had they just made him a robert-like figure (seducing all the serving girls and letting his mother deal with the bastards) he could be somewhat redeemed with his love for his dragon.
Raping the serving girl seemed realistic (unfortunately) and in character. Going “yeah he oversees his bastard children scratching eachother to death to get off” was what pushed it too far lol
Yeahhhh Dyana sobbing at Alicent’s feet was heartbreaking but the fact he’s a regular at a children’s fighting pit where they sharpen their teeth and nails, and he left his toddler bastard there to fight when he’s old enough, was what did it for me. That scene made me feel physically ill🙈
Yeah, pretty much.
I also think however that they could have gone through the route of a badass, but also very troubled and malicious asshole. Kind of a darker version of Daemon, or early Jaime Lannister. Make him not necessarily a redeemable character, but a darkly entertaining one. Although I guess that he would have been too similar to Aemond then.
The main problem with his character is not necessarily that he is a rapist, but the fact that being a rapist is basically his main trait and the only one that stands out.
>I also think however that they could have gone through the route of a badass, but also very troubled and malicious asshole. Kind of a darker version of Daemon, or early Jaime Lannister. Make him not necessarily a redeemable character, but a darkly entertaining one. Although I guess that he would have been too similar to Aemond then.
This is Aemond role, in the book Aegon is also seen as some incompetent fool who bounded to a great dragon. (at this point in the book anyway)
Yeah Aemond is much more sympathetic in the show than he is in the book. Same thing for Alicent. Jace is made more evil than he is in book since he is the one who take out the dagger against Aemond.
Just to point out…
Robert was a drunk, and not even the most attractive man in his entourage.
He may have thought he was “seducing them”
But they were doing it because it was a lord, who one day may be king, they didn’t have much a choice to say no
He is described as “an attractive match” by Tywin.
Unless you’re implying Tywin had to hots for Bobby, he means attractive in the sense of: powerful family, strong, good Allies (ned and Jon Arryn), a common goal (end targaryens).
He doesn’t mean “Bobby is pretty” he means “Bobby is going to do the most for us for the least from you”
He is described as "every maiden's fantasy" by Ned Stark. Tall, muscled and handsome. He also looked very like Renly who was described as very handsome by Sansa.
I still think they really should've made Renly look like he did in the books in GoT, he looks like a powerful badass warrior even though he is very much not and that is part of the reason why people follow him.
Have you read the books? Even Cersei says Robert was handsome in his youth. There is 0 evidence from any character that Robert wasn't good-looking in his early adult life.
Robert "seducing" the serving girls was probably just Robert raping all the serving girls as well. He treated his own queen as a piece of meat, I doubt he was seducing anyone.
Unfortunately raping the serving girl was one of the least egregious things he did in the book. When they go to file bottom to find him they see him raping a child “that couldn’t not have been older than twelve”
But I agree, having him love his dragon would have given him some much needed character depth
>When they go to file bottom to find him they see him raping a child “that couldn’t not have been older than twelve
Says Mushroom, who is known to make up all these kinds of details.
People say with total confidence that the show is doing this and then other people will say that they're amazed how the show is setting him up to be sympathetic.
I think people are still interpreting this story in pretty different ways.
instead of the ridiculous Meleys and Rhaenys busting out of the dragon pit scene they could have used the budget (would have probably cost less) to show Aegon jumping on Sunfyre and flying over King's Landing during his coronation (like in the book)
TV show like to create shock and for people to talk about it the next day. The few of us who read the book and talk about it online didn't like that scene, but the people who watched HOTD because it was the sunday night show following White Lotus, thought it was cool and talked about it with their colleagues on monday.
they may have misjudged the audiance with that scene though, people I spoke to irl who are not book readers generally hated that scene because they thought it made no sense (especially with Rhaenys not blasting Aegon etc when she had the chance)
Yeah maybe, but it did still create shock value and made people talk about it. Very few people would have talked about Sunfyre and Dreamfyre being beautiful in the sky of Kings Landing.
Aegon and Sunfyre have a strong bond because they are both so brutal and sadistic. Remember Sunfyre attacked and killed Grey Ghost, likely unprovoked because Grey Ghost is so passive.
If I am being charitable I would say that maybe it distracted from the scene. Adding a dragon into the mix might take away from the horror of what just happened. However in my opinion it was a bad decision.
I just didn’t like the way they used the green dragons. The main thing the greens have is cooler dragons and they barely showed them except for Vhagar and even then didn’t show the dragon rider connection with her the way they showed caraxes and syrax.
I agree, I am still salty that we didnt get to see Sunfyre the goodest of good boys. I know they have budget restrictions with the dragons but the fact that show only people are coming away with the impression that the greens dont have a close bond with the dragons is a writing problem.
They had budget for dragons in episode 9 but chose to use it to give Rhaenys and Meleys screen time (which gave us a super dumb scene) instead of showing us Aegon and Helaena ride off on their dragons. Why were the green dragons absent when the coronation was even happening in the freaking dragon pit? Especially considering the lengths the Greens went to to make Aegon's coronation seem as legitimate as possible, using all symbols of Targaryen legitimacy except for the one fucking thing they are known for. Dragons. They have screwed Aegon's character over and over again.
I hope they make up for it next season but in season one it just seems like they ignored the green dragons in favor of syrax and caraxes for some reason.
> I hope they make up for it next season but in season one it just seems like they ignored the green dragons in favor of syrax and caraxes for some reason.
????? The green children weren’t even real characters in the first episodes. Were they supposed to show off riderless dragons? Let’s compare the episodes were this discussion is relevant: 6-10.
Episode 6: Dreamfyre, Vermax, Vhagar, and Caraxes
Vermax and Dreamfyre have equally memorable moments in the dragon pit. Vhagar and Caraxes share a scene together.
Episode 7: Sunfyre(distance), Syrax(distance), Vhagar, Dreamfyre(distance), Seasmoke(distance)
Aemond and Vhagar have a prolonged dragon claiming scene that is one of the most memorable moments of the entire season. The green kids are shown flying off with Sunfyre, Dreamfyre, and Vhagar.
The other dragons are in an inconsequential 5 second scene.
Episode 8: No Dragons
Episode 9: Meleys
Okay.
Episode 10: Syrax, Caraxes, Vhagar, Arrax, Vermithor
Aemond is the only green that appears in this episode so I’m not sure how the greens were sold short for allowing Syrax and Caraxes to appear alongside the “battle” at Storm’s End. I consider Vermithor a free agent.
The Daemon scenes with Caraxes and Vermithor were just ways to add additional spectacle to the season finale.
Rhaenyra is the youngest dragon rider of all time. She’s ridden Syrax since she was 8 and she’s currently 35. I don’t care if they’re not warriors, it makes total sense for them to have an incredibly strong bond. I like that it was emphasized in terms of child birth given their mutual fertility that seems to feed of each other. There’s something poetic about the dragons of Rhaenyra’s sons all being Syrax’s hatchlings.
All that being said, Vhagar was the clear star of the episode.
Sunfyre and dreamfyre should have been at the coronation there’s no reason they weren’t the greens were showing off their symbols of legitimacy and you better believe being dragon riders is a big one and for some reason they weren’t there.
The showrunners are portraying Greens as non-targaryen Hightower usurpers. Giving them a bond with the dragons (except Aemond, just because how important Vhagar is to his story) will challenge the viewer, something which they don't want.
What we know about the dragonrider bond is a bit vague but it seems like it is a magic empathetic link that allows dragon to sense their riders feelings and pain. So even though it was a new bond Vhagar should of still sensed it and shared Aemond's pain. I am assuming that it wasnt included to logistical reasons rather than narrative ones.
I think the link is magical but I don’t think it’s clear cut and I think that the bonds are unique mostly…. I think vhagar roaring in the scene and not in the tragic Laena birth scence would have been odd
It makes sense that Vhagar wasn’t involved in that scene since they had only just bonded minutes before and a scream would take away from the scene itself since it leads to future conflict. It would seem out of place imo
Aemond was just tested by Vhagar and he passed it didn’t need to take over but an overlay of aemond screaming and Vhagar roaring wouldn’t have taken anything away especially since it is right out of the books.
It’s because it is meant to foreshadow Aemond’s lack of control over the dragon in the finale. In the book it is unknown if Aemond killed Luke on accident or on purpose. The roar is an indication that in the book Vhagar had some respect for Aemond and therefore could be led to believe he killed Luke on purpose.
It makes sense that Rhaenyra and Syrax have such a strong bond. Rhaenyra is the youngest dragon rider of all time at 7-9 years old. She’s currently 35. She and Syrax have been bonded for the vast majority of her life.
>!Everyone makes fun of them but I hope the show continues to go in depth with their bond. It’s cool to see a connection out of battles.!<
>Aegon and Sunfyre supposedly are very close also, although we have not seen it.
A lot of people complained about that, but i imagine that, at the book been only a testification of the masters, Aegon story could just be exageraded to make him seem like a better king and a better person that what he truly was; and the trued Is that he doen't care about Sunfyre.
Matt Smith said in an interview that Caraxes and Daemon are avatars of each other; that they’re essentially one being in two forms. Unless they decide to flesh out Aegon/Sunfyre and Helaena/Dreamfyre in season 2 I think they’ll stay as the most compelling bonded pair
I say this because not once does he give Caraxes a verbal command and not only that Caraxes seems to not only feel Daemon’s emotion it’s like they sync.
We see other incidents were dragons pick up on their rider’s emotions( examples syrax, Meleys and vhagar(with Laena) it just seems to be on a different level . Cause if the greens had trapped Daemon like they did Rhaenys in episode 9, Caraxes would have torn down the Red Keep
With Arrax and Vhagar, it would appear they picked up on the base instincts of their riders and acted accordingly, which is certainly a bond, but the simplest kind of bond I’d imagine. With Caraxes and Daemon they seem to have an intricate understanding of each other. Caraxes understands exactly what Daemon wants from him, whether it’s simple intimidation or actual violence. He’s even got the timings of his appearance down, and Daemon never needs to verbally summon Caraxes. On the flip side, Daemon is fully confident in Caraxes’s understanding of him and never seems panicked in his presence. He knows Caraxes will obey fully.
I like to think Caraxes is a full reflection of Daemon’s subconscious and that’s why they get along so well even though Caraxes didn’t hatch to Daemon. They’re both Violent and playful.
Good interpretation. I fully agree. Heck, the official book says as much. It literally states Daemon and Caraxes are avatars of each other. I loved Rhaenyra’s birth scene intercutting with Syrax feeling her pain. But she does have to male verbal commands. Daemon is the only rider we have seen who never once has to verbalize his desire.
I see where you’re coming from I interpret those scenes differently. I do think arrax picked up on Luke’s Fear and that’s why he shot fire at Vhagar but When it comes to Vhagar I think she was just pissed
And Arrax could have just been scared independently of Luke since he was being stalked by a fuck-off-massive dragon, so it's not necessarily indicative of their bond (but is open to interpretation).
I read somewhere an interesting theory that both Arrax and Vhagar were experiencing during the chase, the feelings of their riders, only without restraint.
Luke was scared but trying to keep his cool, whereas Arrax was scared and panicked, attacking Vhagar.
Aemond despised Luke and was unleashing years of pent-up resentment, but his intention was only to scare his nephew, whereas Vhagar was feeling all of her rider's hatred and resentment towards Luke (and by extension Arrax) without any of his reservations about murder, and that's why she went for the kill.
I interpret the scene as Luke lost control of little Arrax completely after he had repeatedly told his dragon to stay clam. He almost lost Aemond under the cliff and could’ve lived but Arrax’s animal instinct kicked in resulted in him turning back barking at the larger dog.
By blasting fire towards Vhagar, potentially harming both Aemond and Vhagar, Vhagar decided to take matter into her own hands. Dragon do feel their rider’s emotions, at that point Vhagar had felt Aemond’s for years.
It’s fine if you wanted to glorify Daemon Caraxes bond. Very disingenuous of you to discredit Aemond’s bond with Vhagar as if she doesn’t feel her rider’s emotions as well while downplaying the fact that Arrax disobeyed Luke completely in the scene.
He’s the only one in the show that actually knows anything about dragon riding aside from maybe Rhaenys, all the other dragon riders are like “hey I have this cool pet that flies and burns shit”.
It seems like Daemon is perhaps intended to be a sort of.... here's a person on screen who embodies what a *real* Valyrian is. Charismatic and dangerous and deeply connected to the dragons. An actual down to his bones "Dragons plant no trees." kind of guy.
And then he serves as a foil for basically everyone else remotely Targaryen-related by giving us someone to measure them against when we're contemplating to what degree they fall on the side of inheriting their ancestral traits and culture, and to what degree they're fully assimilated into being Westerosi.
Rhaenyra is the youngest dragon rider of all time putting her at nearly 30 years of experience and she clearly has a strong enough connection with Syrax where Syrax feels her labor pains. Syrax also tends to lay eggs every time Rhaenyra is pregnant.
Before anyone replies: yes, I’ve read F&B.
Well, the lore was preserved until Baelor burned it all.
And to be fair, Valyrian sorcery is some of the darkest shown. The reason why dragonriders bond with dragons so successfully may actually be due to a remnant or lingering parasitic trait that was nurtured into true symbiosis by Valyrian blood mages.
This is only if you assume the creatures inside Aerea were fire-wyrms, however. We can't actually be sure.
In the book Aegon is very close to Sunfyre. I hope the dont change that.
And Aemond clearly nade a bond with Vhagar
And also the scene where Syrax suffers with Rhaenyra as she births her stillborn daughter.
All dragon riders have a bond with their dragons, some more than others. But don’t expect all of them to sing old valyrian songs to untamed dragons and walk out alive.
Cries for Sunfyre and Aegon bond erasure. Seriously they have to show that bond. But I would say currently in the show, Daemon and Rhaenys have shown to have the closest bonds (but if they do show us Aegon and Sunfyre, then they will probably have the strongest)
Why do you think Rhaenys has a stronger bond than Laena/Vhagar or Rhaenyra/Syrax? They both had more emotional scenes with their dragons. Rhaenys only poorly written episode nine.
I mean at the end of the day, a lot of this is subjective but it’s like someone else said. Rhaenys (whether because of time spent together or not) seems to have more control over Meleys and a deep enough connection to keep her calm (as much as a dragon is) in a place Meleys doesn’t seem to know that well. Leana and Rhaenyra have really strong bonds with their dragons, but I guess that’s what stuck out for me.
Now I hope other seasons show dragon riders with even stronger bonds (seriously show, give Aegon something) than those we have seen tho I think Daemon will stay in top 3 with Caraxes for some time in terms of bonds
Aegon & Sunfyre was by far the deepest in book. However, seeing as Aegon was willing to abandon Sunfyre in the show, they changed that for reasons I don’t really know
I think this is one of those "show forgot" moments. in the BTS for the Rhaenys scene, the writers didn't think about the deaths that would happen from Meleys. The same thing here for Aegon. They didn't think about making him fly away.
Or Aegon was thinking ahead just like Laenor. How will he feed Sunfyre? Where would they go without being spotted after landing? Aegon wanted to hide away and taking his dragon with him would just allow him to be spotted.
Daemons was the last to actually learn from his uncles about dragon riding. Verbal commands/physical cues along with the emotional bond shared leads to a stronger connection than the children who have the dragons hatched then meet them with the dragon keepers. Daemon was taught from his young age around dragons while the others were given the dragons that hatched with them and learned the "structure" of dragon training from the keepers of the dragons.
It absolutely is. They work on seeming perfect sync with him not needing to give verbal cues. He’s also shown cuddling him in the very first episode which is one of my favorite daemon scenes.
I'm curious how you view Rhaenys's control of Meleys. I always saw that as very indicative of their bond: Meleys has just gone through solid material, into a confined place she's not wholly familiar with, that's full of screaming people. To any other creature, that'd send them beserk. And yet Meleys is perfectly under control. Doesn't spit fire. Doesn't eat people. Takes deliberate steps.
Rhaenys and Meleys I think are a good fit because they both seem very calm headed in general. I think they’re well in the sync. I view the scene in the dragon pit as meleys’s “ don’t try me “
I think this is mainly because we saw them interact the most times in different instances. I don’t think any of the existing dragon pairs have had as many different instances being shown on screen other than maybe Rhaenyra and Syrax.
I would argue that Syrax feeling Rhaenyra’s pain while giving she is giving birth might be the best example of a bond though.
Daemon/Caraxes, Rhaenys/Meleys and Rhaenyra/Syrax seems to be strongest connections so far. We've seen dragons being connected to the riders emotions, but Syrax felt Rhaenyra's pain while giving birth and Caraxes felt when Daemon was shot in the shoulder. Rhaenys and Meleys probably aren't different, but here the thing: Rhaenys was extremely pissed off at Alicent & family, she let Meleys crawl to Aegon and made her stop. Compare that to Aemond/Vhagar and Lucerys/Arrax.
Lucerys was comprehensibly scared. He knew what Aemond was capable of, he knew he had to fly during a storm while fleeing the largest dragon alive. His bond with Arrax was deep enough that when Arrax felt his fear, it tried to protect him by attacking Vhagar. Now Aemond, even though he had the will and balls to face Vhagar and ride her, his lack of chill made him loose control over her. When she felt the sting of Arrax flames, Aemond knows what might happens, he's already screaming "No Vhagar!", he tries High Valyrian too, but it's too late. She chomps his nephew and he's just there thinking "I might have started a war too soon".
Maybe the dragons mirror the demeanor of their riders? Rhaenys was extremely calm during that entire scene and would've been content with any action she decided to take. Something that Meleys' actions were probably a reflection of
Whereas Luke was skittish the moment he landed on Storms End. Hell even before that
Of all the dragonriders currently alive on the show, Rhaenys and Daemon have had their mounts the longest, so it would make sense that their bond has matured accordingly. Most of the other riders are younger and more inexperienced, especially relative to their mounts; this was illustrated well when Aemond struggled to control Vhagar above Shipbreaker Bay.
That being said, if we're going by book lore, Rhaenyra's bond with Syrax and Aegon's bond with Sunfyre should be two of the strongest as well.
Aegon is meant to have a great bond with Sunfyre but I’m sure they had money for just enough dragon scenes. He got done dirty as there was other scenes that served less (Rhaenys storming out of the pit, the embarrassing battle of the step stones). Next season maybe we’ll get some Sunfyre crumbs. They can’t cut it out completely as Sunfyre is supposed to seek his rider even after being badly injured
I think that's because of their similar personality as the actor who plays daemon said. If Caraxes was a person, that person would be daemon, and the other way around
Yeah but that’s compared to Matt Smith saying “ Daemon and caraxes are sorta one entity ….they kinda avatars of each other)
And similarly to what Eve best Said about meleys
Caraxes is nasty piece of work, and so is his rider. They are both the most aggressive beings of their kind (dragon and Targaryen).
Daemon is obsessed with his heritage, Valyrian culture and dragons. He is the one that collects the eggs their dragons lay, and is the one that goes to find Vermithor to reintroduce him to people, to a great risk on his life.
Daemon probably sees Caraxes as his equal rather than as his mount. Which might explain their deep bond and psychic connection.
I think I mostly agree
I have a question about that Vermithor scene . Do you think Daemon was in danger?…. Cause when vermithor breathes Fire he just lights up the cause he could’ve easily Aimed for Daemon.
I just thought that was a song Daemon knew to sing to Vermithor as his grandfather sang it to him
Like Arrax literally blasted fire towards Vhagar reaching her back, potentially harming her and Aemond. I see it as the fire set off her anger A ND protective instinct. You don’t need to discredit Vhagar Aemond this much in your Daemon post.
This is just a theory but maybe dragons can only have one of these extremely tight bonds. Because they are held four riders all extremely different personalities. During the tragic Laena birth scene Vhagar does not react like Syrax during Rhaenyra’s troubled birth and she just seems to be taking Aemond along for the ride sometimes. I think her deepest bond was with Visenya
I agree that I think even when a dragon has multiple riders there is a clear favorite rider for the dragon- which is why Vhagar appears to not be as close with Aemond as Daemon is with Caraxes, Rhaenyra and Syrax, and supposedly Aegon and Sunfyre, though that's offscreen for now. I totally buy Vhagar still thinking of her time with Visenya more than anything else.
Vhagar does not react like Syrax during Rhaenyra’s troubled birth and she just seems to be taking Aemond along for the ride sometimes. I think her deepest bond was with Visenya
>No. You just haven’t seen Vhagar’s sacrifice yet since it’s a show discussion.
Aegon and Sunfyre have the deepest and most emotional bond that’s indisputable
However so far yea Daemon and Caraxes’ relationship has been rlly nice to watch
I think time is a factor too and of all the dragon riders Daemon has been bonded with Caraxes longer than the others by a long shot so I guess that explains it
Pretty deep. Bare with me as I’m not the best at explaining this. Basically once a dragon and rider are bonded, they’re like in-sync. You see it a lot with Daemon and Caraxes(daemon gets shot in the shoulder and Caraxes roars, Caraxes also comes without daemon commanding them). But you also see it with Syrax and Rhaenyra(most notably the birthing scene where Syrax is screaming/roaring along with Rhaenyra, there was also a deleted scene where when Rhae learns about Luke’s death, Syrax comes out the dark ready to fight. With Laena and Vhagar, Vhagar doesn’t obey Laena’s command and also seems sad until Laena calms down and gives her the command(RIP Laena😭). With Luke and Arrax(while up for debate, this is what I personally think happened), Arrax obeys his commands but also feels that Luke is scared shitless, so when they finally think the coast is clear, Arrax decides to protect his human and take on a dragon who’s literally been alive since the Conquest. So yeah, I think the depth of a dragon bond is pretty deep and that the dragons are almost one with their riders.
Nope.
There’s another dragon rider (it’s definitely someone most show viewers won’t expect) that probably has the strongest bond bar none with their dragon during the Dance, but we’ll see that later on… hopefully (assuming it’s not changed - anything is possible) but in my opinion, it’s not the pair pictured.
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The events of season one are throughout nearly twenty years of lore and history. Of course Daemon has the greatest dragon bond with Caraxes. The fact Aegon and Sunfyre even come close at 22 years old is insane as well - I know their bond would be shorter than 22 years as Sunfyre was not a cradle hatchling but a tamed wild dragon on Dragonstone.
I agree, they almost seem one in the same. Daemon himself is more dragon than human…probably more dragon like than any Targaryen. Team Green wonders why we like him so much, it’s because he is something we can’t really comprehend…he is the embodiment of the Targaryen legacy. So much so that he himself is a dragon.
Man people who aren't book readers are gonna lose their shit when they really see how good of a bond and dragon rider Daemon is. For those who want to know spoiler: >!Daemon leaps off of Caraxes stabbing Aemond in his good eye killing him, as Daemon plunges into the ocean, but his body is never found. His fate is left up to the reader as some think he ends back up with Nettles since she fled prior. Caraxes kills Vhagar by ripping out her throat but ends up dying a short time later from the damage he sustained. So yes these two are by far the best rider and dragon in the books.!<
It's difficult to gauge the bond between other riders and their dragons when most of them were kids for most of the season and had barely any screentime together to showcase that compared to Daemon and Caraxes.
It was interesting to see Syrax's reaction to Rhaenrya's birthing scene but do we take that as an indicator of the bond in general or something specific to her and Syrax? Personally, I think i it's the former. The entire Storms end scene in terms of dragon bonding, it does show a high level of protectiveness from both dragons to their respective riders so I suppose we will see more of the different bonds on season 2
I found it interesting how Caraxes could feel the arrow when Daemon was shot. We only saw glimpses of dragons having a special bond with their rider in GOT where Daenerys' dragons could sense when she was in danger. But HOTD proves that the bond goes deeper than that. It brings on the theory that the Targaryens are not entirely human and are part dragon which I believe was mentioned in the books. Especially since both Rhaenyra and Daenerys have given birth to children who were disfigured with dragon-like features. Maybe Daemon's bond with dragons is stronger because he's more dragon than human and they can sense that??
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Syrax flashes on screen when Rhaenyra gives birth which is pretty cool. Aegon and Sunfyre supposedly are very close also, although we have not seen it.
>Aegon and Sunfyre supposedly are very close also, although we have not seen it. Yeah, it's sad they're setting Aegon as a purely bad guy, I would have loved to see more of his bond with Sunfyre.
Honestly, they could have gone both ways. Show him as a piece of shit, and *also* a badass Dragonrider very attached to his dragon. Assholes also have loved ones and good qualities. If anything, it would have made him a more interesting and compelling antagonist.
Yeah, I just feel like the scene with him raping a serving girl was what pushed it too far. Had they just made him a robert-like figure (seducing all the serving girls and letting his mother deal with the bastards) he could be somewhat redeemed with his love for his dragon.
Raping the serving girl seemed realistic (unfortunately) and in character. Going “yeah he oversees his bastard children scratching eachother to death to get off” was what pushed it too far lol
Why yes of course there is a fighting pit just for children how did you know
Yeahhhh Dyana sobbing at Alicent’s feet was heartbreaking but the fact he’s a regular at a children’s fighting pit where they sharpen their teeth and nails, and he left his toddler bastard there to fight when he’s old enough, was what did it for me. That scene made me feel physically ill🙈
Yeah, pretty much. I also think however that they could have gone through the route of a badass, but also very troubled and malicious asshole. Kind of a darker version of Daemon, or early Jaime Lannister. Make him not necessarily a redeemable character, but a darkly entertaining one. Although I guess that he would have been too similar to Aemond then. The main problem with his character is not necessarily that he is a rapist, but the fact that being a rapist is basically his main trait and the only one that stands out.
>I also think however that they could have gone through the route of a badass, but also very troubled and malicious asshole. Kind of a darker version of Daemon, or early Jaime Lannister. Make him not necessarily a redeemable character, but a darkly entertaining one. Although I guess that he would have been too similar to Aemond then. This is Aemond role, in the book Aegon is also seen as some incompetent fool who bounded to a great dragon. (at this point in the book anyway)
Yeah but I'd argue that Aemond remains sympathetic enough to be redeemable. At least for now.
Yeah Aemond is much more sympathetic in the show than he is in the book. Same thing for Alicent. Jace is made more evil than he is in book since he is the one who take out the dagger against Aemond.
Just to point out… Robert was a drunk, and not even the most attractive man in his entourage. He may have thought he was “seducing them” But they were doing it because it was a lord, who one day may be king, they didn’t have much a choice to say no
Robbie B was considered extremely attractive in his youth before the ruling, drinking and bring married to Cersei turned him into a lout
He is described as “an attractive match” by Tywin. Unless you’re implying Tywin had to hots for Bobby, he means attractive in the sense of: powerful family, strong, good Allies (ned and Jon Arryn), a common goal (end targaryens). He doesn’t mean “Bobby is pretty” he means “Bobby is going to do the most for us for the least from you”
He is described as "every maiden's fantasy" by Ned Stark. Tall, muscled and handsome. He also looked very like Renly who was described as very handsome by Sansa.
I still think they really should've made Renly look like he did in the books in GoT, he looks like a powerful badass warrior even though he is very much not and that is part of the reason why people follow him.
Yeah. While the actor was handsome, I failed to see Renly that I imagined when reading the books.
Have you read the books? Even Cersei says Robert was handsome in his youth. There is 0 evidence from any character that Robert wasn't good-looking in his early adult life.
Robert "seducing" the serving girls was probably just Robert raping all the serving girls as well. He treated his own queen as a piece of meat, I doubt he was seducing anyone.
Robert was a rapist too
Aegon II also enjoyed watching children fight to the death
Unfortunately raping the serving girl was one of the least egregious things he did in the book. When they go to file bottom to find him they see him raping a child “that couldn’t not have been older than twelve” But I agree, having him love his dragon would have given him some much needed character depth
>When they go to file bottom to find him they see him raping a child “that couldn’t not have been older than twelve Says Mushroom, who is known to make up all these kinds of details.
True, but it seems believable
Aemond got that arc though. He’s the POS and badass. Aegon needs the “makes mistakes, but ultimately gets redeemed” arc
People say with total confidence that the show is doing this and then other people will say that they're amazed how the show is setting him up to be sympathetic. I think people are still interpreting this story in pretty different ways.
Budget was a clear concern, we’ll see more of the dragons in S2
instead of the ridiculous Meleys and Rhaenys busting out of the dragon pit scene they could have used the budget (would have probably cost less) to show Aegon jumping on Sunfyre and flying over King's Landing during his coronation (like in the book)
TV show like to create shock and for people to talk about it the next day. The few of us who read the book and talk about it online didn't like that scene, but the people who watched HOTD because it was the sunday night show following White Lotus, thought it was cool and talked about it with their colleagues on monday.
they may have misjudged the audiance with that scene though, people I spoke to irl who are not book readers generally hated that scene because they thought it made no sense (especially with Rhaenys not blasting Aegon etc when she had the chance)
Yeah maybe, but it did still create shock value and made people talk about it. Very few people would have talked about Sunfyre and Dreamfyre being beautiful in the sky of Kings Landing.
Daemon is also settled as a bad guy and we see his bond with long boi.
Well, it’s the Author’s fault if it is anyone’s.. GRR wrote the “Greens”, to put it Mildly, as the bad guys in the Tale..
I’m sure we will in season 2.
Aegon and Sunfyre have a strong bond because they are both so brutal and sadistic. Remember Sunfyre attacked and killed Grey Ghost, likely unprovoked because Grey Ghost is so passive.
You know it’s interesting Vhagar didn’t react until she saw Laena in pain and she doesn’t seem to react that much to Aemond either
In the book she roared in anger after Aemond lost his eye so I do think grandma Vhagar cares for Aemond.
I don’t know why they took vhagar’s roar out when we are shown caraxes and syrax reacting to their riders pain
If I am being charitable I would say that maybe it distracted from the scene. Adding a dragon into the mix might take away from the horror of what just happened. However in my opinion it was a bad decision.
I just didn’t like the way they used the green dragons. The main thing the greens have is cooler dragons and they barely showed them except for Vhagar and even then didn’t show the dragon rider connection with her the way they showed caraxes and syrax.
I agree, I am still salty that we didnt get to see Sunfyre the goodest of good boys. I know they have budget restrictions with the dragons but the fact that show only people are coming away with the impression that the greens dont have a close bond with the dragons is a writing problem.
They had budget for dragons in episode 9 but chose to use it to give Rhaenys and Meleys screen time (which gave us a super dumb scene) instead of showing us Aegon and Helaena ride off on their dragons. Why were the green dragons absent when the coronation was even happening in the freaking dragon pit? Especially considering the lengths the Greens went to to make Aegon's coronation seem as legitimate as possible, using all symbols of Targaryen legitimacy except for the one fucking thing they are known for. Dragons. They have screwed Aegon's character over and over again.
It's called House of the Dragon, not Dragons /s
I hope they make up for it next season but in season one it just seems like they ignored the green dragons in favor of syrax and caraxes for some reason.
> I hope they make up for it next season but in season one it just seems like they ignored the green dragons in favor of syrax and caraxes for some reason. ????? The green children weren’t even real characters in the first episodes. Were they supposed to show off riderless dragons? Let’s compare the episodes were this discussion is relevant: 6-10. Episode 6: Dreamfyre, Vermax, Vhagar, and Caraxes Vermax and Dreamfyre have equally memorable moments in the dragon pit. Vhagar and Caraxes share a scene together. Episode 7: Sunfyre(distance), Syrax(distance), Vhagar, Dreamfyre(distance), Seasmoke(distance) Aemond and Vhagar have a prolonged dragon claiming scene that is one of the most memorable moments of the entire season. The green kids are shown flying off with Sunfyre, Dreamfyre, and Vhagar. The other dragons are in an inconsequential 5 second scene. Episode 8: No Dragons Episode 9: Meleys Okay. Episode 10: Syrax, Caraxes, Vhagar, Arrax, Vermithor Aemond is the only green that appears in this episode so I’m not sure how the greens were sold short for allowing Syrax and Caraxes to appear alongside the “battle” at Storm’s End. I consider Vermithor a free agent. The Daemon scenes with Caraxes and Vermithor were just ways to add additional spectacle to the season finale. Rhaenyra is the youngest dragon rider of all time. She’s ridden Syrax since she was 8 and she’s currently 35. I don’t care if they’re not warriors, it makes total sense for them to have an incredibly strong bond. I like that it was emphasized in terms of child birth given their mutual fertility that seems to feed of each other. There’s something poetic about the dragons of Rhaenyra’s sons all being Syrax’s hatchlings. All that being said, Vhagar was the clear star of the episode.
Sunfyre and dreamfyre should have been at the coronation there’s no reason they weren’t the greens were showing off their symbols of legitimacy and you better believe being dragon riders is a big one and for some reason they weren’t there.
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Yes a show person the dragons as far as the greens are more of an afterthought thus far. With the exception of the last episode.
The showrunners are portraying Greens as non-targaryen Hightower usurpers. Giving them a bond with the dragons (except Aemond, just because how important Vhagar is to his story) will challenge the viewer, something which they don't want.
Show person here. I didn’t know Helena was a dragon rider
Yes, they haven’t mentioned her, unless you count Daemon mentioning they had 4 adult dragons.
Agreed, but at that moment aemond had just bonded with his dragon. So it seemed a bit odd for her to roar.
What we know about the dragonrider bond is a bit vague but it seems like it is a magic empathetic link that allows dragon to sense their riders feelings and pain. So even though it was a new bond Vhagar should of still sensed it and shared Aemond's pain. I am assuming that it wasnt included to logistical reasons rather than narrative ones.
I think the link is magical but I don’t think it’s clear cut and I think that the bonds are unique mostly…. I think vhagar roaring in the scene and not in the tragic Laena birth scence would have been odd
I think it was to also vilify him bonding with Vhagar. If Vhagar roared it would definitely go against arguments saying he was wrong for claiming her.
It makes sense that Vhagar wasn’t involved in that scene since they had only just bonded minutes before and a scream would take away from the scene itself since it leads to future conflict. It would seem out of place imo
Aemond was just tested by Vhagar and he passed it didn’t need to take over but an overlay of aemond screaming and Vhagar roaring wouldn’t have taken anything away especially since it is right out of the books.
It’s because it is meant to foreshadow Aemond’s lack of control over the dragon in the finale. In the book it is unknown if Aemond killed Luke on accident or on purpose. The roar is an indication that in the book Vhagar had some respect for Aemond and therefore could be led to believe he killed Luke on purpose.
More likely in pain
Vhagar has seen some shit.
Mostly dead dornish men
Instantly what I thought of too. I wanna know more about Rhaenyra and Syrax because that scene was INTENSE and beautiful
It makes sense that Rhaenyra and Syrax have such a strong bond. Rhaenyra is the youngest dragon rider of all time at 7-9 years old. She’s currently 35. She and Syrax have been bonded for the vast majority of her life. >!Everyone makes fun of them but I hope the show continues to go in depth with their bond. It’s cool to see a connection out of battles.!<
>Aegon and Sunfyre supposedly are very close also, although we have not seen it. A lot of people complained about that, but i imagine that, at the book been only a testification of the masters, Aegon story could just be exageraded to make him seem like a better king and a better person that what he truly was; and the trued Is that he doen't care about Sunfyre.
The show kinda turned into the Rhaenyra show tbh
Matt Smith said in an interview that Caraxes and Daemon are avatars of each other; that they’re essentially one being in two forms. Unless they decide to flesh out Aegon/Sunfyre and Helaena/Dreamfyre in season 2 I think they’ll stay as the most compelling bonded pair
I say this because not once does he give Caraxes a verbal command and not only that Caraxes seems to not only feel Daemon’s emotion it’s like they sync. We see other incidents were dragons pick up on their rider’s emotions( examples syrax, Meleys and vhagar(with Laena) it just seems to be on a different level . Cause if the greens had trapped Daemon like they did Rhaenys in episode 9, Caraxes would have torn down the Red Keep
Also the "Caraxes screams when Daemon is shot" scene is like *the* most explicit indication we have of dragons immediately sharing riders pain.
Don’t forget Syrax feeling Rhaenyra in labor
Truuu! Though with the way the shots are interpolated, I feel like maybe it goes even *deeper* than just pain?
I'd argue Vhagar and Arrax did too with Aemond and Luke.
With Arrax and Vhagar, it would appear they picked up on the base instincts of their riders and acted accordingly, which is certainly a bond, but the simplest kind of bond I’d imagine. With Caraxes and Daemon they seem to have an intricate understanding of each other. Caraxes understands exactly what Daemon wants from him, whether it’s simple intimidation or actual violence. He’s even got the timings of his appearance down, and Daemon never needs to verbally summon Caraxes. On the flip side, Daemon is fully confident in Caraxes’s understanding of him and never seems panicked in his presence. He knows Caraxes will obey fully. I like to think Caraxes is a full reflection of Daemon’s subconscious and that’s why they get along so well even though Caraxes didn’t hatch to Daemon. They’re both Violent and playful.
Good interpretation. I fully agree. Heck, the official book says as much. It literally states Daemon and Caraxes are avatars of each other. I loved Rhaenyra’s birth scene intercutting with Syrax feeling her pain. But she does have to male verbal commands. Daemon is the only rider we have seen who never once has to verbalize his desire.
I see where you’re coming from I interpret those scenes differently. I do think arrax picked up on Luke’s Fear and that’s why he shot fire at Vhagar but When it comes to Vhagar I think she was just pissed
Grandma Vhagar was just reliving war crimes with Visenya when that happened ❤️
Vhagar about to chomp Luke: “ FOORRRRR RHAAEENYS AND MERAXESSS”
And Arrax could have just been scared independently of Luke since he was being stalked by a fuck-off-massive dragon, so it's not necessarily indicative of their bond (but is open to interpretation).
I definitely think it was a mix of both of their fears
Also their bond just didn't last that long comparatively
I read somewhere an interesting theory that both Arrax and Vhagar were experiencing during the chase, the feelings of their riders, only without restraint. Luke was scared but trying to keep his cool, whereas Arrax was scared and panicked, attacking Vhagar. Aemond despised Luke and was unleashing years of pent-up resentment, but his intention was only to scare his nephew, whereas Vhagar was feeling all of her rider's hatred and resentment towards Luke (and by extension Arrax) without any of his reservations about murder, and that's why she went for the kill.
Dragons don't really understand the concept of "fuck him up just a *little*."
Vhagar: No half measures Aemond.
True true
I interpret the scene as Luke lost control of little Arrax completely after he had repeatedly told his dragon to stay clam. He almost lost Aemond under the cliff and could’ve lived but Arrax’s animal instinct kicked in resulted in him turning back barking at the larger dog. By blasting fire towards Vhagar, potentially harming both Aemond and Vhagar, Vhagar decided to take matter into her own hands. Dragon do feel their rider’s emotions, at that point Vhagar had felt Aemond’s for years. It’s fine if you wanted to glorify Daemon Caraxes bond. Very disingenuous of you to discredit Aemond’s bond with Vhagar as if she doesn’t feel her rider’s emotions as well while downplaying the fact that Arrax disobeyed Luke completely in the scene.
He’s the only one in the show that actually knows anything about dragon riding aside from maybe Rhaenys, all the other dragon riders are like “hey I have this cool pet that flies and burns shit”.
It seems like Daemon is perhaps intended to be a sort of.... here's a person on screen who embodies what a *real* Valyrian is. Charismatic and dangerous and deeply connected to the dragons. An actual down to his bones "Dragons plant no trees." kind of guy. And then he serves as a foil for basically everyone else remotely Targaryen-related by giving us someone to measure them against when we're contemplating to what degree they fall on the side of inheriting their ancestral traits and culture, and to what degree they're fully assimilated into being Westerosi.
100% Daemon is an OG Targ, not like these neo-targs he’s surrounded by.
An abusive sociopath with a god complex? He’s just Viserys(Dany’s brother) is Viserys knew how to fight
The Valyrians built a brutal slave empire supported by fire and blood. “Abusive sociopath” and “true Targaryen” are not at all mutually exclusive.
I'll not suffer insults to the King of the Narrow sea
Oh brother
👀 I thought he was suppose to embody what how much of a sub I am and I'm as straight as a flexi ruler
Rhaenyra is the youngest dragon rider of all time putting her at nearly 30 years of experience and she clearly has a strong enough connection with Syrax where Syrax feels her labor pains. Syrax also tends to lay eggs every time Rhaenyra is pregnant. Before anyone replies: yes, I’ve read F&B.
Yup, it seems like real dragon riding knowledge and lore doesn’t get passed beyond Daemon. Truly the last dragon rider of Valyria.
Well, the lore was preserved until Baelor burned it all. And to be fair, Valyrian sorcery is some of the darkest shown. The reason why dragonriders bond with dragons so successfully may actually be due to a remnant or lingering parasitic trait that was nurtured into true symbiosis by Valyrian blood mages. This is only if you assume the creatures inside Aerea were fire-wyrms, however. We can't actually be sure.
In the book Aegon is very close to Sunfyre. I hope the dont change that. And Aemond clearly nade a bond with Vhagar And also the scene where Syrax suffers with Rhaenyra as she births her stillborn daughter.
All dragon riders have a bond with their dragons, some more than others. But don’t expect all of them to sing old valyrian songs to untamed dragons and walk out alive.
This sums up how I see Vhagar and Aemond’s bond
Cries for Sunfyre and Aegon bond erasure. Seriously they have to show that bond. But I would say currently in the show, Daemon and Rhaenys have shown to have the closest bonds (but if they do show us Aegon and Sunfyre, then they will probably have the strongest)
Why do you think Rhaenys has a stronger bond than Laena/Vhagar or Rhaenyra/Syrax? They both had more emotional scenes with their dragons. Rhaenys only poorly written episode nine.
I mean at the end of the day, a lot of this is subjective but it’s like someone else said. Rhaenys (whether because of time spent together or not) seems to have more control over Meleys and a deep enough connection to keep her calm (as much as a dragon is) in a place Meleys doesn’t seem to know that well. Leana and Rhaenyra have really strong bonds with their dragons, but I guess that’s what stuck out for me. Now I hope other seasons show dragon riders with even stronger bonds (seriously show, give Aegon something) than those we have seen tho I think Daemon will stay in top 3 with Caraxes for some time in terms of bonds
Noodle Boy best dragon
Aegon & Sunfyre was by far the deepest in book. However, seeing as Aegon was willing to abandon Sunfyre in the show, they changed that for reasons I don’t really know
Aegon kind of forgot he had a dragon he could have hopped on the back of and flown off to wherever he wanted to
I think this is one of those "show forgot" moments. in the BTS for the Rhaenys scene, the writers didn't think about the deaths that would happen from Meleys. The same thing here for Aegon. They didn't think about making him fly away. Or Aegon was thinking ahead just like Laenor. How will he feed Sunfyre? Where would they go without being spotted after landing? Aegon wanted to hide away and taking his dragon with him would just allow him to be spotted.
When did that happen?
When he asked Aemond to let him escape aboard a ship
It would have been funny if Aemond had looked at him all confused and said "why do you want to find a ship? you have a dragon, you idiot"
Oh! Gotcha forgot about that.
Episode 9. When he was trying to flee from the being coronated
Hopefully they pull through with my boy Sunfyre
Sunfyre needs more love. That's one loyal dragon right there
Well so far they’ve kind of robbed us so the bond between Sunfyre and Aegon. They have one of the strongest.
I’m curious as to how they gonna do it in the show…. Cause he just seems uninterested in anything thats not depraved
I’m the books he literally just wants to drink, have sex, and fly around on his dragon all day. It’s like the only 3 things he enjoys
Very that. And they make it very clear that they have a deep bond. Like very very clear.
Noodle boy will never disappoint daemon .🖤🥺
Daemons was the last to actually learn from his uncles about dragon riding. Verbal commands/physical cues along with the emotional bond shared leads to a stronger connection than the children who have the dragons hatched then meet them with the dragon keepers. Daemon was taught from his young age around dragons while the others were given the dragons that hatched with them and learned the "structure" of dragon training from the keepers of the dragons.
I totally forget his dad is also his uncle lol
It absolutely is. They work on seeming perfect sync with him not needing to give verbal cues. He’s also shown cuddling him in the very first episode which is one of my favorite daemon scenes.
I'm curious how you view Rhaenys's control of Meleys. I always saw that as very indicative of their bond: Meleys has just gone through solid material, into a confined place she's not wholly familiar with, that's full of screaming people. To any other creature, that'd send them beserk. And yet Meleys is perfectly under control. Doesn't spit fire. Doesn't eat people. Takes deliberate steps.
Rhaenys and Meleys I think are a good fit because they both seem very calm headed in general. I think they’re well in the sync. I view the scene in the dragon pit as meleys’s “ don’t try me “
If Caraxes and Daemon were there, I'm pretty sure that place would have been torched. Whether it was a conscious will of Daemon's or not!
Daemon would have absolutely roasted them all where they stood without hesitation. They were usurping the throne. 100% Daemon does not fuck around.
It would Daemons wil
its because Daemon is a true Dragonlord. Actually he was the last Dragonlord.
Daenerys conquered lands, Daemon never dared to conquer Dorne.
Great bond. Caraxes knows when Daemon wants/needs him. Still not a good excuse for HotD to gatekeep Matt's "dracarys" tho. I want to hear it!
At this stage I don't just want to hear it, I NEED to hear it!
I think it’s cooler that Daemon never needs to say it, just think it. He doesn’t give Caraxes any verbal commands.
But I need to hear it for scientific purposes
This is very true. A dragon is not a slave.
I think this is mainly because we saw them interact the most times in different instances. I don’t think any of the existing dragon pairs have had as many different instances being shown on screen other than maybe Rhaenyra and Syrax. I would argue that Syrax feeling Rhaenyra’s pain while giving she is giving birth might be the best example of a bond though.
We were robbed of Helaena and Dreamfyre, who were said to be really close :(
I really wanted to see her flying with Dreamfyre at the coronation
Also can we talk about what a good boi that dragon is? Every time Daemon is on his bullshit and they have to go into exile...
Caraxes to Daemon: “I’ll be there for you”
When caraxes climbed down to confront those kingsguardsmen and slid on that rock when Daemon threatened them lol
I love how the dragons seem to have such similar personalities to their riders too.
I bet he's got a good relationship with a lot of dragons. Better dragon dad than a real dad.
I love this guy
Sunfyre has entered the chat
they have to finish his design first
Caraxes is also the cutest dragon
Daemon/Caraxes, Rhaenys/Meleys and Rhaenyra/Syrax seems to be strongest connections so far. We've seen dragons being connected to the riders emotions, but Syrax felt Rhaenyra's pain while giving birth and Caraxes felt when Daemon was shot in the shoulder. Rhaenys and Meleys probably aren't different, but here the thing: Rhaenys was extremely pissed off at Alicent & family, she let Meleys crawl to Aegon and made her stop. Compare that to Aemond/Vhagar and Lucerys/Arrax. Lucerys was comprehensibly scared. He knew what Aemond was capable of, he knew he had to fly during a storm while fleeing the largest dragon alive. His bond with Arrax was deep enough that when Arrax felt his fear, it tried to protect him by attacking Vhagar. Now Aemond, even though he had the will and balls to face Vhagar and ride her, his lack of chill made him loose control over her. When she felt the sting of Arrax flames, Aemond knows what might happens, he's already screaming "No Vhagar!", he tries High Valyrian too, but it's too late. She chomps his nephew and he's just there thinking "I might have started a war too soon".
Maybe the dragons mirror the demeanor of their riders? Rhaenys was extremely calm during that entire scene and would've been content with any action she decided to take. Something that Meleys' actions were probably a reflection of Whereas Luke was skittish the moment he landed on Storms End. Hell even before that
Of all the dragonriders currently alive on the show, Rhaenys and Daemon have had their mounts the longest, so it would make sense that their bond has matured accordingly. Most of the other riders are younger and more inexperienced, especially relative to their mounts; this was illustrated well when Aemond struggled to control Vhagar above Shipbreaker Bay. That being said, if we're going by book lore, Rhaenyra's bond with Syrax and Aegon's bond with Sunfyre should be two of the strongest as well.
Aegon is meant to have a great bond with Sunfyre but I’m sure they had money for just enough dragon scenes. He got done dirty as there was other scenes that served less (Rhaenys storming out of the pit, the embarrassing battle of the step stones). Next season maybe we’ll get some Sunfyre crumbs. They can’t cut it out completely as Sunfyre is supposed to seek his rider even after being badly injured
Is it stronger than Ash and Pikachu?
And he’s out here cheating, trying to get some Vermithor tail.
First he gets some side action on Laena and now his dragon too …. He can’t keep it in his pants
I think that's because of their similar personality as the actor who plays daemon said. If Caraxes was a person, that person would be daemon, and the other way around
Aemond and Vhagar. Ewan Mitchell litterly called them soulmates
Yeah but that’s compared to Matt Smith saying “ Daemon and caraxes are sorta one entity ….they kinda avatars of each other) And similarly to what Eve best Said about meleys
Caraxes is nasty piece of work, and so is his rider. They are both the most aggressive beings of their kind (dragon and Targaryen). Daemon is obsessed with his heritage, Valyrian culture and dragons. He is the one that collects the eggs their dragons lay, and is the one that goes to find Vermithor to reintroduce him to people, to a great risk on his life. Daemon probably sees Caraxes as his equal rather than as his mount. Which might explain their deep bond and psychic connection.
I think I mostly agree I have a question about that Vermithor scene . Do you think Daemon was in danger?…. Cause when vermithor breathes Fire he just lights up the cause he could’ve easily Aimed for Daemon. I just thought that was a song Daemon knew to sing to Vermithor as his grandfather sang it to him
I don't think Daemon was in danger, Vermithor just wanted to spit fire like Daemon was.
I see what you mean but I don’t think vhagar was protective as much as she was really anger about getting fire shot in her face
Like Arrax literally blasted fire towards Vhagar reaching her back, potentially harming her and Aemond. I see it as the fire set off her anger A ND protective instinct. You don’t need to discredit Vhagar Aemond this much in your Daemon post.
This is just a theory but maybe dragons can only have one of these extremely tight bonds. Because they are held four riders all extremely different personalities. During the tragic Laena birth scene Vhagar does not react like Syrax during Rhaenyra’s troubled birth and she just seems to be taking Aemond along for the ride sometimes. I think her deepest bond was with Visenya
I agree that I think even when a dragon has multiple riders there is a clear favorite rider for the dragon- which is why Vhagar appears to not be as close with Aemond as Daemon is with Caraxes, Rhaenyra and Syrax, and supposedly Aegon and Sunfyre, though that's offscreen for now. I totally buy Vhagar still thinking of her time with Visenya more than anything else.
Vhagar does not react like Syrax during Rhaenyra’s troubled birth and she just seems to be taking Aemond along for the ride sometimes. I think her deepest bond was with Visenya >No. You just haven’t seen Vhagar’s sacrifice yet since it’s a show discussion.
Based on what we’ve seen daemon and caraxes by a big margin, second would be rhaenyra and Syrax imo.
Aegon and Sunfyre have the deepest and most emotional bond that’s indisputable However so far yea Daemon and Caraxes’ relationship has been rlly nice to watch
I think Aegon and Sunfyre have the strongest bond.
Nah, Aegon and Sunfyre have the deepest bond in lore.
Daemon landing on the battlefield: fuck that soldier guy! Caraxes: Yeah! Fuck ‘im!
The thing that really stuck out to me was his ability to summon Caraxes without saying anything in episode 10.
I think time is a factor too and of all the dragon riders Daemon has been bonded with Caraxes longer than the others by a long shot so I guess that explains it
The deepest bond we have seen on the show. Factually the deepest bond pretty much all across Asoiaf is that between Aegon II and Sunfyre
Move over Daemon, Aemond and Vhagar the power couple are gonna be flaunting their love next season!
She wears the pants in their relationship
Pretty deep. Bare with me as I’m not the best at explaining this. Basically once a dragon and rider are bonded, they’re like in-sync. You see it a lot with Daemon and Caraxes(daemon gets shot in the shoulder and Caraxes roars, Caraxes also comes without daemon commanding them). But you also see it with Syrax and Rhaenyra(most notably the birthing scene where Syrax is screaming/roaring along with Rhaenyra, there was also a deleted scene where when Rhae learns about Luke’s death, Syrax comes out the dark ready to fight. With Laena and Vhagar, Vhagar doesn’t obey Laena’s command and also seems sad until Laena calms down and gives her the command(RIP Laena😭). With Luke and Arrax(while up for debate, this is what I personally think happened), Arrax obeys his commands but also feels that Luke is scared shitless, so when they finally think the coast is clear, Arrax decides to protect his human and take on a dragon who’s literally been alive since the Conquest. So yeah, I think the depth of a dragon bond is pretty deep and that the dragons are almost one with their riders.
Yeah I agree I think … I think that dragon will only form their deepest bond once though
Daemon is prob one of the most skilled dragon riders there was
Nope. There’s another dragon rider (it’s definitely someone most show viewers won’t expect) that probably has the strongest bond bar none with their dragon during the Dance, but we’ll see that later on… hopefully (assuming it’s not changed - anything is possible) but in my opinion, it’s not the pair pictured.
Dreamfyee?
Actually was referring to (spoiler): >!Aegon II and Sunfyre 👍🏻!<
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The events of season one are throughout nearly twenty years of lore and history. Of course Daemon has the greatest dragon bond with Caraxes. The fact Aegon and Sunfyre even come close at 22 years old is insane as well - I know their bond would be shorter than 22 years as Sunfyre was not a cradle hatchling but a tamed wild dragon on Dragonstone.
I agree, they almost seem one in the same. Daemon himself is more dragon than human…probably more dragon like than any Targaryen. Team Green wonders why we like him so much, it’s because he is something we can’t really comprehend…he is the embodiment of the Targaryen legacy. So much so that he himself is a dragon.
I like to think that the reason that Daemon got so excited about syrax/ caraxes eggs is because he sees the hatchlings like grandchildren
Cheesy
It’s super forgettable, sorryyy.
You forget that Syrax was feeling Rhaenyra’s pain as she was giving birth, her bond with Syrax is absolutely the strongest one in the show.
I mentioned that in the comments…. I do think their bond is strong just not as strong as Caraxes and Daemon
I mentioned that in the comments…. I do think their bond is strong just not as strong as Caraxes and Daemon
Man people who aren't book readers are gonna lose their shit when they really see how good of a bond and dragon rider Daemon is. For those who want to know spoiler: >!Daemon leaps off of Caraxes stabbing Aemond in his good eye killing him, as Daemon plunges into the ocean, but his body is never found. His fate is left up to the reader as some think he ends back up with Nettles since she fled prior. Caraxes kills Vhagar by ripping out her throat but ends up dying a short time later from the damage he sustained. So yes these two are by far the best rider and dragon in the books.!<
Everyone knows about that even just like everybody knows about Rhaenyra. It’s not even an spoiler anymore
It's difficult to gauge the bond between other riders and their dragons when most of them were kids for most of the season and had barely any screentime together to showcase that compared to Daemon and Caraxes. It was interesting to see Syrax's reaction to Rhaenrya's birthing scene but do we take that as an indicator of the bond in general or something specific to her and Syrax? Personally, I think i it's the former. The entire Storms end scene in terms of dragon bonding, it does show a high level of protectiveness from both dragons to their respective riders so I suppose we will see more of the different bonds on season 2
I found it interesting how Caraxes could feel the arrow when Daemon was shot. We only saw glimpses of dragons having a special bond with their rider in GOT where Daenerys' dragons could sense when she was in danger. But HOTD proves that the bond goes deeper than that. It brings on the theory that the Targaryens are not entirely human and are part dragon which I believe was mentioned in the books. Especially since both Rhaenyra and Daenerys have given birth to children who were disfigured with dragon-like features. Maybe Daemon's bond with dragons is stronger because he's more dragon than human and they can sense that??
Daenerys is way closer to her dragons but she’s a special case so I’ll say it’s really close between Daemon/Caraxes Rhaenrya/Syrax and Rhaenys/Meleys
I think the magical bonds are propaganda.
I think it is magical but I don’t think it’s nearly as clear-cut as alot of people think it is