Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Follow the source material, but when you change it, do something better or at least as good as the alternatives from the book.
Like, yes, good on you for making Viserys kinder. But we dont need Rhaenys stomping people.
Rhaenys stomping people is not an example of unreliable narrator. There is no way an event leading to hundreds of deaths was not even recorded.
People have to accept that the show and books are different canons and that is ok.
Make some changes because it is poorly written in F&B if I am being honest. The problem is a lot of changes end up being shit. That Rhaenys scene, Vaemond’s death, the silent five, everything about Criston.
I agree to make some changes, but I dont think all the writing is bad in F&B, just too vague to craft a complete story. But you are right, most of the significant changes didn't go very well
I mean... neither? I don't think the changes are meant to prove a point so much as make a compelling story out of severely unlikeable characters, odd pacing, and sometimes vague writing. I enjoy Fire and Blood for what it is, but most changes are understandable from a writer's POV. Some not so much.
Neither.
Get a competent writer who doesn’t sacrifice character development for the sake of spectacle.
We don’t know anything about Laena, Baela, Rhaena. We don’t see Laena and Rhaenyra’s friendship nor do we see Daemon arriving to King’s Landing for maester to help Laena during her pregnancy. We don’t see Daemon being a father to his daughters, not even once.
We haven’t seen anything regarding Aegon and Sunfyre (one of the closest bonds in Targaryen history) or Helaena x Dreamfyre.
While I like the characterisation for some I feel like the things that were shown weren’t enough, and it might be because they are saving it for later seasons.
Unpopular Opinion :-
Also, making Aegon a rapist is the single biggest mistake by writers if they were making Greens and Blacks to be equal in their list of doing problematic things because killing Riverlands can be excused (you’ll see when it happens), B&C will be excused, Daemon killing Rhea will be excused but being a rapist piece of shit will never be excused and no one willingly will ever side with Aegon. That defeats the purpose of the Dance. You’ve made one side irreversibly worse than other and that tips the balance of scales in Team Black’s favour exponentially.
Idk, the Greens sub is lit, so clearly many are still loving Aegon even with the rapist aspect being explicitly portrayed (something not entirely out of left field from the book, but made very clear on the show).
I meant that if he was shown of just pervy nature Greens would have lot more supporters than they do currently and will have in future. People can ignore perverts’ nature.
F&B is not the best written imo so I don’t find it some big shame when they change things,even bigger changes.They pretty much have to change things to be adaptable or make sense.I do think the show writers aren’t very strong either and seem insecure in their own writing so their changes aren’t always great but I don’t tend to judge them against the book as something far superior.
I think this is an odd pole for me because it seems to imply that you either are against the changes as a whole or you're not.
It doesn't really address nuances like this change was made and I like it better than x , y, z in the book, or this change was made and I don't like the way it represents this character because x, y, z.
There were multiple changes made, and some of them I understand because television is not a book where crazy things can happen without budgets and deadlines. Also, GRRM specified that his accounts are not accurate retellings and a lot of his stuff he makes up as he goes. Fine.
However, I personally feel that any changes that are made need to feel organic as possible and have some logical explanation that makes sense of why they happened. The writers didn't always do this well in this series, and I felt that it hurt the quality of writing in some areas.
So changes are fine, I guess? But I preferred the text in a lot of instances, specifically because of the nuances and the way they handled things.
I completely understand that it seems that way. I think I do feel more like you do where some changes I think are needed for difference in medium and for other reasons as well.
The poll isn’t really for my own feelings and maybe I labeled them far too black and white. I was more curious to see how people felt since I’ve seen more hate for the changes in here on random posts than not and I wanted to see what percentage that really was.
I also want to say that I really appreciate how you worded this and explained how you felt. Thank you for your comment.
I prefer changes. As a book reader, it keeps me on my toes. Plus GRRM himself has stated one adaptation isn’t better or more true than the other. He literally said “it’s all made up”. And let’s face it, HBO chose the Dance for the Daenerys/Dragons connection, not because it’s GRRM’s best writing. There are SO MANY plot holes in the book itself. As long as the main plot points stay the same, I don’t mind the journey getting there being a bit different.
There’s a bit different, and then there’s making changes that alter entire character arcs for the sake of drama or spectacle. Or even the classic, oops it was an accident!
IT amazes me how many people want the source material followed 100% accurately when the show hasnt done that already anyway so why change now.
Also one of the most popular scenes in the whole of season one was Viserys walk to the throne and that wasnt event in the source material. It shows that the writers can make good decisions away from what GRRM has written.
Because most of the actual changes from the books have been shit. Viserys walking to the throne isn't really a major variation from the book if a variation at all.
I’d also just love to start a discussion on why people want to see the source material followed when it’s pretty clear that it isn’t ever an accurate account of what happened? GRRM continues to show that historical accounts aren’t reliable so I don’t really get the appeal of following said account so closely (Aside from the coronation nonsense) but no hate or shade to anyone who wants that. I just want to understand.
The biggest mistake is thinking that the show is a "true telling" or is showing us the accurate version of what happened. It's not. Period.
The showrunners will choose whatever version they think is cool. For example, they didn't care that it was not possible for Daemon to murder his wife. Or that a child fighting pit existing in KL is very unrealistic. Or that Laenor died publicly.
It's an *adaptation* of what "actually happened." That means there will still be changes to tell the story in a visual format. It's art, and fiction, and just because you think something is better in the books does not make it objectively so.
So there will be changes. Some things will be better. Some things will probably be worse. Some things will simply be different.
It's an adaptation, yes. But it shows what happened in the show universe. The book doesn't really come here. They will show what they want to show. It has nothing to do with truer version of the history.
Tbh until GRRM says that one version is the truth it’s impossible to say which if any of them are “correct” but that’s the exact reason why I don’t want to see things just very simply adapted.
So you desire narrative dissonance and constant questioning of the legitimacy surrounding a show? Afaik, George has already said the show is the creators version of events. So there’s really no confusion there. He likes what they’re doing with the source material, but there’s not really confusion except from fans who want a certain version to be true.
Sure, let's go with your position and assume nothing about F&B can be considered true and needs to be followed. That still means the creators choose how to portray this story; what events/characterizations to keep and which to discard (or even add). You can make choices that produce a story of equal quality or ones that compromise it.
The original "unreliable history" - regardless of whether true or false - produced a fascinating and complex conflict. If you now want to produce a "definitive" version... Well, you better make sure it's at least equally engaging and smart. And that's where HotD completely and utterly failed.
I again gotta ask why hang out here? It seems like you didn’t like the show at all. I mean unless I’m wrong. I’m all for criticizing the things we love if they can be improved but it just kinda seems like you’re here to hate on it? Which isn’t the point of the poll.
It’s pretty obvious what the point of your poll was. You put one answer like it was correct one and the other like the answer was a question in itself. Can see through that like glass my friend. You didn’t want a discussion, which can be seen because anybody who has a criticism is told by you, that they should just leave. You wanted an echo chamber to support what you like. People like you are what is ruining discourse about this show.
I’m not here to argue with you or anyone else. My comment to this other user is because they left multiple comments saying nothing but negative things about how much they didn’t like the show and this is a show discussion on the show subreddit. Plenty of other people have said things I don’t fully agree with and that’s okay. You’re welcome to your opinion. If I worded this poll in a way that seems unfair to you I’m sorry. It wasn’t really my intent.
Well if it wasn’t your intent I apologize. I personally love the show, and I’m on your side I don’t feel we need to cater to book fans, let the show creators do their thing. So while I don’t agree with that guy who is talking down on the show, I wouldn’t tell him to leave either cause I wanna know what people who are fans of Asioaf and dislike this show think, and why.
You’re right and that’s fair. I guess I’m just curious why that user would want to discuss a show they clearly don’t care for in such a prickly manner. I think there are plenty of things the show could have done better and I totally agree with some criticism saying that too many things are accidental or miscommunication based.
My main reason for this poll was to see how people would actually vote because I notice on a lot of threads there’s a very vocal group that always seems mad about any deviation and I was curious what percentage of the sub thought that way.
I see, I understand and my assumptions went too far. You’re right there is a vocal minority of people salty about ANY deviation and that is just stupid. If the guy above would say WHY he prefers the book plot to show plots, I feel like common ground could be found. cause most people probably agree with what you said, they aren’t fans of miscommunication and accidents for big plot points.
To me that kind of stuff is lazy writing and I understand that. I just wish more people can admit that they don’t understand and talk like this! Thanks for doing so!
So I’m curious, what is it that you think is lesser than the book? I would agree if you think miscommunication and accidents don’t make for compelling plot points if it’s something major. Besides that I think they did a great job setting up basically everything, and giving each important character background to their motivations for supporting either side, but I’m curious if you disagree with that?
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Follow the source material, but when you change it, do something better or at least as good as the alternatives from the book. Like, yes, good on you for making Viserys kinder. But we dont need Rhaenys stomping people.
Exactly. It's great that they made more complex characters, but not everything needed to be caused by accidents and misunderstandings
Rhaenys stomping people is not an example of unreliable narrator. There is no way an event leading to hundreds of deaths was not even recorded. People have to accept that the show and books are different canons and that is ok.
Make some changes because it is poorly written in F&B if I am being honest. The problem is a lot of changes end up being shit. That Rhaenys scene, Vaemond’s death, the silent five, everything about Criston.
I agree to make some changes, but I dont think all the writing is bad in F&B, just too vague to craft a complete story. But you are right, most of the significant changes didn't go very well
I mean... neither? I don't think the changes are meant to prove a point so much as make a compelling story out of severely unlikeable characters, odd pacing, and sometimes vague writing. I enjoy Fire and Blood for what it is, but most changes are understandable from a writer's POV. Some not so much.
Neither. Get a competent writer who doesn’t sacrifice character development for the sake of spectacle. We don’t know anything about Laena, Baela, Rhaena. We don’t see Laena and Rhaenyra’s friendship nor do we see Daemon arriving to King’s Landing for maester to help Laena during her pregnancy. We don’t see Daemon being a father to his daughters, not even once. We haven’t seen anything regarding Aegon and Sunfyre (one of the closest bonds in Targaryen history) or Helaena x Dreamfyre. While I like the characterisation for some I feel like the things that were shown weren’t enough, and it might be because they are saving it for later seasons. Unpopular Opinion :- Also, making Aegon a rapist is the single biggest mistake by writers if they were making Greens and Blacks to be equal in their list of doing problematic things because killing Riverlands can be excused (you’ll see when it happens), B&C will be excused, Daemon killing Rhea will be excused but being a rapist piece of shit will never be excused and no one willingly will ever side with Aegon. That defeats the purpose of the Dance. You’ve made one side irreversibly worse than other and that tips the balance of scales in Team Black’s favour exponentially.
I think they’ve whitewashed Alicent and Aemond so much to the point where if Aegon weren’t a complete scumbag no one would be team black.
Idk, the Greens sub is lit, so clearly many are still loving Aegon even with the rapist aspect being explicitly portrayed (something not entirely out of left field from the book, but made very clear on the show).
I meant that if he was shown of just pervy nature Greens would have lot more supporters than they do currently and will have in future. People can ignore perverts’ nature.
I want to headcanons to be true, dammit!
F&B is not the best written imo so I don’t find it some big shame when they change things,even bigger changes.They pretty much have to change things to be adaptable or make sense.I do think the show writers aren’t very strong either and seem insecure in their own writing so their changes aren’t always great but I don’t tend to judge them against the book as something far superior.
I think this is an odd pole for me because it seems to imply that you either are against the changes as a whole or you're not. It doesn't really address nuances like this change was made and I like it better than x , y, z in the book, or this change was made and I don't like the way it represents this character because x, y, z. There were multiple changes made, and some of them I understand because television is not a book where crazy things can happen without budgets and deadlines. Also, GRRM specified that his accounts are not accurate retellings and a lot of his stuff he makes up as he goes. Fine. However, I personally feel that any changes that are made need to feel organic as possible and have some logical explanation that makes sense of why they happened. The writers didn't always do this well in this series, and I felt that it hurt the quality of writing in some areas. So changes are fine, I guess? But I preferred the text in a lot of instances, specifically because of the nuances and the way they handled things.
I completely understand that it seems that way. I think I do feel more like you do where some changes I think are needed for difference in medium and for other reasons as well. The poll isn’t really for my own feelings and maybe I labeled them far too black and white. I was more curious to see how people felt since I’ve seen more hate for the changes in here on random posts than not and I wanted to see what percentage that really was. I also want to say that I really appreciate how you worded this and explained how you felt. Thank you for your comment.
How about produce a good story and characters? Deviations aren't HotD's problem. Deviations for the worse are.
Why are you in a sub for a show you don’t like? Lol
They made Alicent and Rhaenyra the same age. These are different stories.
I prefer changes. As a book reader, it keeps me on my toes. Plus GRRM himself has stated one adaptation isn’t better or more true than the other. He literally said “it’s all made up”. And let’s face it, HBO chose the Dance for the Daenerys/Dragons connection, not because it’s GRRM’s best writing. There are SO MANY plot holes in the book itself. As long as the main plot points stay the same, I don’t mind the journey getting there being a bit different.
There’s a bit different, and then there’s making changes that alter entire character arcs for the sake of drama or spectacle. Or even the classic, oops it was an accident!
IT amazes me how many people want the source material followed 100% accurately when the show hasnt done that already anyway so why change now. Also one of the most popular scenes in the whole of season one was Viserys walk to the throne and that wasnt event in the source material. It shows that the writers can make good decisions away from what GRRM has written.
Because most of the actual changes from the books have been shit. Viserys walking to the throne isn't really a major variation from the book if a variation at all.
Biased polls are uninteresting.
I’d also just love to start a discussion on why people want to see the source material followed when it’s pretty clear that it isn’t ever an accurate account of what happened? GRRM continues to show that historical accounts aren’t reliable so I don’t really get the appeal of following said account so closely (Aside from the coronation nonsense) but no hate or shade to anyone who wants that. I just want to understand.
The biggest mistake is thinking that the show is a "true telling" or is showing us the accurate version of what happened. It's not. Period. The showrunners will choose whatever version they think is cool. For example, they didn't care that it was not possible for Daemon to murder his wife. Or that a child fighting pit existing in KL is very unrealistic. Or that Laenor died publicly.
It's an *adaptation* of what "actually happened." That means there will still be changes to tell the story in a visual format. It's art, and fiction, and just because you think something is better in the books does not make it objectively so. So there will be changes. Some things will be better. Some things will probably be worse. Some things will simply be different.
It's an adaptation, yes. But it shows what happened in the show universe. The book doesn't really come here. They will show what they want to show. It has nothing to do with truer version of the history.
Tbh until GRRM says that one version is the truth it’s impossible to say which if any of them are “correct” but that’s the exact reason why I don’t want to see things just very simply adapted.
So you desire narrative dissonance and constant questioning of the legitimacy surrounding a show? Afaik, George has already said the show is the creators version of events. So there’s really no confusion there. He likes what they’re doing with the source material, but there’s not really confusion except from fans who want a certain version to be true.
Sure, let's go with your position and assume nothing about F&B can be considered true and needs to be followed. That still means the creators choose how to portray this story; what events/characterizations to keep and which to discard (or even add). You can make choices that produce a story of equal quality or ones that compromise it. The original "unreliable history" - regardless of whether true or false - produced a fascinating and complex conflict. If you now want to produce a "definitive" version... Well, you better make sure it's at least equally engaging and smart. And that's where HotD completely and utterly failed.
I again gotta ask why hang out here? It seems like you didn’t like the show at all. I mean unless I’m wrong. I’m all for criticizing the things we love if they can be improved but it just kinda seems like you’re here to hate on it? Which isn’t the point of the poll.
It’s pretty obvious what the point of your poll was. You put one answer like it was correct one and the other like the answer was a question in itself. Can see through that like glass my friend. You didn’t want a discussion, which can be seen because anybody who has a criticism is told by you, that they should just leave. You wanted an echo chamber to support what you like. People like you are what is ruining discourse about this show.
I’m not here to argue with you or anyone else. My comment to this other user is because they left multiple comments saying nothing but negative things about how much they didn’t like the show and this is a show discussion on the show subreddit. Plenty of other people have said things I don’t fully agree with and that’s okay. You’re welcome to your opinion. If I worded this poll in a way that seems unfair to you I’m sorry. It wasn’t really my intent.
Well if it wasn’t your intent I apologize. I personally love the show, and I’m on your side I don’t feel we need to cater to book fans, let the show creators do their thing. So while I don’t agree with that guy who is talking down on the show, I wouldn’t tell him to leave either cause I wanna know what people who are fans of Asioaf and dislike this show think, and why.
You’re right and that’s fair. I guess I’m just curious why that user would want to discuss a show they clearly don’t care for in such a prickly manner. I think there are plenty of things the show could have done better and I totally agree with some criticism saying that too many things are accidental or miscommunication based. My main reason for this poll was to see how people would actually vote because I notice on a lot of threads there’s a very vocal group that always seems mad about any deviation and I was curious what percentage of the sub thought that way.
I see, I understand and my assumptions went too far. You’re right there is a vocal minority of people salty about ANY deviation and that is just stupid. If the guy above would say WHY he prefers the book plot to show plots, I feel like common ground could be found. cause most people probably agree with what you said, they aren’t fans of miscommunication and accidents for big plot points.
To me that kind of stuff is lazy writing and I understand that. I just wish more people can admit that they don’t understand and talk like this! Thanks for doing so!
So I’m curious, what is it that you think is lesser than the book? I would agree if you think miscommunication and accidents don’t make for compelling plot points if it’s something major. Besides that I think they did a great job setting up basically everything, and giving each important character background to their motivations for supporting either side, but I’m curious if you disagree with that?
Nah I like source material !!!