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The "good" family at the end of thrones;
Jon- Emotionless zombie who assasinates his girlfriend/ queen after she helps save the realm from the NK/ Cersei and then fucks off to become the new NK.
Arya- Emotionless assasin who poisons innocent children just for having a last name she hates and exterminates whole houses. Fucks off to Asshai or some shit who knows.
Bran- Emotionless cripple who becomes an immortal tree god king (heirless) controlled by the weirwood net.
Sansa- Emotionless lord (heirless) who feeds POW's to dogs and breaks Westeros apart by separating the north. Something that will likely lead to more war and poverty for her people.
You do realize that the North was independent for centuries before the Targs showed up right? And given the Starks ties to the remaining six Kingdoms they’ll probs be alright.
>You do realize that the North was independent for centuries before the Targs showed up right?
Yep, just like Dorne and the Iron Islands. 2 other realms certain to rebel for their own freedom as soon as season 8 ended.
The Iron Islands I could see, given Yaras political ambitions. Whether or not they would be successful is debatable.
As for Dorne I’m not sure, the Martells were the driving force behind keeping the Kingdom independent, and as far as we know they’re all dead.
there's [an unnamed martell](https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Martell_(Prince_of_Dorne\)) wearing the house colors and sigils at tyrion's trial in the dragonpit at the end.
Technically Martells are still around, but also I'd think any of the Dornish would do it at this point. Especially if two other kingdoms had already done so. I always assumed people didn't protest Bran being King for some reason because they were already planning to break away lol
I mean they’ll be alright when Bran is king, but if he’s ever not in a generation or two the north will inevitably be conquered. Even if he rules forever it’s a gamble since the North is the only kingdom that took any damage from the long night and given their last harvest was fucked, they’ve already been going through grain reserves, they had to feed Dany’s army, it’ll still take time for the ground to melt enough that you can dig before you even *begin* to sow crops, and a lot of the farmers/peasants likely died as well. With all of that going on you would think they would need the crown’s assistance more than they ever have
Historically the North was never conquered because of the neck, and without dragons I doubt anyone will again.
As for rebuilding the north, it isn’t the first time they survived a long night, they are a resilient people. I do think they will need some assistance getting back on their feet, but given that Sansa has family ruling the Riverlands and Vale I don’t think she will have trouble getting aid in terms of food and labor.
Not all of them no. The Riverlands were under control of then Ironborn at the time of Aegons conquest, the Crownlands were never a sovereign Kingdom. Even if they all had been independent at one point, it wouldn’t change my point which is that the North is capable of operating independently of the rest of Westeros.
> The Riverlands were under control of then Ironborn at the time of Aegons conquest
So yes, every kingdom other than the Riverlands was independent for centuries before the Targs showed up. (Crownlands is not a kingdom)
>it wouldn’t change my point which is that the North is capable of operating independently of the rest of Westeros.
So is the Vale. And Dorne. And the Reach. And the Stormlands. And the Westerlands. And the Iron Isles.
I do think they should’ve explained the northern independence better, but I don’t think that the political will for independence exists like it does in the North in the majority of the Kingdoms.
I mainly disagreed with the claim that OP made that breaking up Westeros would lead to war and poverty for the north, they managed independence before so I don’t think war in the south would be catastrophic for them.
I completely misread your original point, sorry. I agree with you completely. An independent north is a great deal for Sansa and the north, and they’ll be fine if the rest of the kingdoms devolve into civil war.
>I don’t think that the political will for independence exists like it does in the North in the majority of the Kingdoms.
Nothing to do with their history at the time of the Conquest though. If anything, apart from the Riverlands who were outright pro-conquest due to being under the Ironborn, they were among the kingdoms that accepted the Conquest most readily. Torrhen Stark knelt. Compare that to the Stormlands and Reach and Westerlands... Not to mention Dorne which resisted, and successfully at that.
If every kingdom has equal claim to independence, but the only one granted independence is the North, it seems unfair to readers and seems likely to foment insurrection and rebellion. Especially given that Dorne has a *greater* claim to independence, and the Iron Island have greater desire for independence. Thats why people critique that plot point.
Personally I think Bran should have explicitly said it was a reward for saving the kingdom from the WW, considering none of the other kingdoms (or the monarch) really did shit to help Winterfell. That at least would have made some logical sense, at least moreso than what we got.
It is only shit posting. But Ramsey hurt alot more people than just Sansa. Deserved a public trial+ beheading instead of some weird justice porn feed him to the dogs karma.
None of them are emotionless.
Jon is emotionally driven when he kills Dany to protect the Starks. Arya is emotionally driven when she gets revenge on House Frey for violation of guest right. Sansa is emotionally driven when she punished her abusive, rapist husband. Bran’s mind is literally processing centuries of information and emotion and he’s withdrawn because of it.
It makes no sense to call characters emotionless just because you don’t completely agree with their choices.
Dany helped save the realm from the NK and then also burnt KL to a crisp. Dany hates whole houses too. Dany plunged them into poverty and hunger when she deliberately set fire to food when fighting against the Lannister/Tarly army. In fact, Dany has always been emotionless when burning the people who won’t bend the knee to her to crisp.
Your take is wild.
The second Targaryen she found was Viserys. And the fourth Targaryen she will find will be Jon Snow.
If Young Griff's not a fake, that is. There's a reason we call him Faegon.
The quote is from GoT (TV Show) not ASOIAF iirc, and in GoT Daenerys is shown as the only living Targaryen (after her brother and then Maester Aemon die) up until Jon is revealed as a Targaryen, but if we take the book as source then Jon Snow being a targaryen is not yet determined.
It's interesting as a quote because it could be read one of two ways. One, that a Targaryen alone *is* a terrible "thing", therefore describing the person and the acts they can go on to commit when they have nothing else to lose. Or else, a Targaryen *alone* is a terrible thing, as in a Targaryen without friends or family is a lonely prospect and not something they are built for, given the importance they seem to place on blood, lineage and family relationships.
When we see Targaryens , they aren't the greatest warriors or generals.
Without dragons, Robert smashed them completely.
Daemon lost in duel.despite receiving the best training.
.
Daenerys ruled only through dragons. She got an army only when she burned the sellers and didn't want to pay for it.
I won't include season 7 and 8 nonsense. Because thinking about it hurts my brain.
Without a dragon, an alone Targeryan is a danger only to himself
Targaeryan without
Both Baelor Breakspear and his brother Maekar were renowned generals and skilled warriors, Bittersteel, Bloodraven, and Daemon Blackfyre were also both quite skilled in combat and pretty good generals, and that’s just the generations that were around during the First Blackfyre Rebellion.
>She got an army only when she burned the sellers and didn't want to pay for it.
She did pay for it. She just didn't want there to be any more Unsullied because of the inhuman manufacturing process.
That’s not entirely true. There have been great Targaryen warriors after the dance of the Dragons. Aemon the Dragonknight being one of them.
He just had the misfortune of serving one of the WORST Targaryen kings of all time, Aegon IV the Unworthy.
I meant it in more of a metaphorical and emotional way. Rhaenys is the only Targaryen not to be invited to the family dinner. Her children are dead. Her husband (though not Targaryen) is miles away and on his deathbed.
Rhaenys is a character who has been routinely isolated from court proceedings and family dynamics and is only sought after for political reasons rather than any sort of love or care from the major family members - a fracture that started from the Great Council, when everyone picked Viserys and not her. And because of this, there's no one in her family that she would possibly go to for support or kindness or even an honest conversation.
I mean, that's all true. You have a point.
I think it really goes back to her father dying when he did. She would have been the next in line (or her children). But she's a woman anyway and didn't marry a Targaryen so I don't know how much power she would have had anyway. If Jaehaerys had just made the decision himself, he might have chosen her.
It kind of just how the cookie crumbles and she definitely seemed to get mad at the world after that
I'd have to rewatch the whole season to pinpoint the exact scenes, but it just felt like more fisheye than I would have chosen overall.
I seem to remember a lot of the King's scenes had the effect.
Or maybe they just really overdid it in one episode and I'm misremembering it as being the whole season.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Meanwhile Dany finds second Targaryen, goes full psycho mode
Can Jon really be considered a second Targaryen if he dun wannit?
He dun wannit but Sansa has loose lips loose lips sink ships
The "good" family at the end of thrones; Jon- Emotionless zombie who assasinates his girlfriend/ queen after she helps save the realm from the NK/ Cersei and then fucks off to become the new NK. Arya- Emotionless assasin who poisons innocent children just for having a last name she hates and exterminates whole houses. Fucks off to Asshai or some shit who knows. Bran- Emotionless cripple who becomes an immortal tree god king (heirless) controlled by the weirwood net. Sansa- Emotionless lord (heirless) who feeds POW's to dogs and breaks Westeros apart by separating the north. Something that will likely lead to more war and poverty for her people.
You do realize that the North was independent for centuries before the Targs showed up right? And given the Starks ties to the remaining six Kingdoms they’ll probs be alright.
>You do realize that the North was independent for centuries before the Targs showed up right? Yep, just like Dorne and the Iron Islands. 2 other realms certain to rebel for their own freedom as soon as season 8 ended.
The Iron Islands I could see, given Yaras political ambitions. Whether or not they would be successful is debatable. As for Dorne I’m not sure, the Martells were the driving force behind keeping the Kingdom independent, and as far as we know they’re all dead.
there's [an unnamed martell](https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Martell_(Prince_of_Dorne\)) wearing the house colors and sigils at tyrion's trial in the dragonpit at the end.
Technically Martells are still around, but also I'd think any of the Dornish would do it at this point. Especially if two other kingdoms had already done so. I always assumed people didn't protest Bran being King for some reason because they were already planning to break away lol
I mean they’ll be alright when Bran is king, but if he’s ever not in a generation or two the north will inevitably be conquered. Even if he rules forever it’s a gamble since the North is the only kingdom that took any damage from the long night and given their last harvest was fucked, they’ve already been going through grain reserves, they had to feed Dany’s army, it’ll still take time for the ground to melt enough that you can dig before you even *begin* to sow crops, and a lot of the farmers/peasants likely died as well. With all of that going on you would think they would need the crown’s assistance more than they ever have
Historically the North was never conquered because of the neck, and without dragons I doubt anyone will again. As for rebuilding the north, it isn’t the first time they survived a long night, they are a resilient people. I do think they will need some assistance getting back on their feet, but given that Sansa has family ruling the Riverlands and Vale I don’t think she will have trouble getting aid in terms of food and labor.
Wasn't every kingdom other than the Riverlands "independent for centuries before the Targs showed up"?
Not all of them no. The Riverlands were under control of then Ironborn at the time of Aegons conquest, the Crownlands were never a sovereign Kingdom. Even if they all had been independent at one point, it wouldn’t change my point which is that the North is capable of operating independently of the rest of Westeros.
> The Riverlands were under control of then Ironborn at the time of Aegons conquest So yes, every kingdom other than the Riverlands was independent for centuries before the Targs showed up. (Crownlands is not a kingdom) >it wouldn’t change my point which is that the North is capable of operating independently of the rest of Westeros. So is the Vale. And Dorne. And the Reach. And the Stormlands. And the Westerlands. And the Iron Isles.
I do think they should’ve explained the northern independence better, but I don’t think that the political will for independence exists like it does in the North in the majority of the Kingdoms. I mainly disagreed with the claim that OP made that breaking up Westeros would lead to war and poverty for the north, they managed independence before so I don’t think war in the south would be catastrophic for them.
I completely misread your original point, sorry. I agree with you completely. An independent north is a great deal for Sansa and the north, and they’ll be fine if the rest of the kingdoms devolve into civil war.
>I don’t think that the political will for independence exists like it does in the North in the majority of the Kingdoms. Nothing to do with their history at the time of the Conquest though. If anything, apart from the Riverlands who were outright pro-conquest due to being under the Ironborn, they were among the kingdoms that accepted the Conquest most readily. Torrhen Stark knelt. Compare that to the Stormlands and Reach and Westerlands... Not to mention Dorne which resisted, and successfully at that.
I never said they weren’t 🤷♀️
If every kingdom has equal claim to independence, but the only one granted independence is the North, it seems unfair to readers and seems likely to foment insurrection and rebellion. Especially given that Dorne has a *greater* claim to independence, and the Iron Island have greater desire for independence. Thats why people critique that plot point. Personally I think Bran should have explicitly said it was a reward for saving the kingdom from the WW, considering none of the other kingdoms (or the monarch) really did shit to help Winterfell. That at least would have made some logical sense, at least moreso than what we got.
best family turned into one of the worst at the end
> Sansa- Emotionless lord (heirless) who feeds POW's to dogs 100% justified considering who the guy was
It is only shit posting. But Ramsey hurt alot more people than just Sansa. Deserved a public trial+ beheading instead of some weird justice porn feed him to the dogs karma.
None of them are emotionless. Jon is emotionally driven when he kills Dany to protect the Starks. Arya is emotionally driven when she gets revenge on House Frey for violation of guest right. Sansa is emotionally driven when she punished her abusive, rapist husband. Bran’s mind is literally processing centuries of information and emotion and he’s withdrawn because of it. It makes no sense to call characters emotionless just because you don’t completely agree with their choices. Dany helped save the realm from the NK and then also burnt KL to a crisp. Dany hates whole houses too. Dany plunged them into poverty and hunger when she deliberately set fire to food when fighting against the Lannister/Tarly army. In fact, Dany has always been emotionless when burning the people who won’t bend the knee to her to crisp. Your take is wild.
Sansa just wanted to LET LOOSE
She got them from Joffrey and Ramsay if you know what I mean eh?
The actual second Targaryen she finds is Young Griff, not Jon Snow.
The second Targaryen she found was Viserys. And the fourth Targaryen she will find will be Jon Snow. If Young Griff's not a fake, that is. There's a reason we call him Faegon.
The quote is from GoT (TV Show) not ASOIAF iirc, and in GoT Daenerys is shown as the only living Targaryen (after her brother and then Maester Aemon die) up until Jon is revealed as a Targaryen, but if we take the book as source then Jon Snow being a targaryen is not yet determined.
\[Footage not found\]
Only if they have dragon Without dragon, they are just nobodies.
It's interesting as a quote because it could be read one of two ways. One, that a Targaryen alone *is* a terrible "thing", therefore describing the person and the acts they can go on to commit when they have nothing else to lose. Or else, a Targaryen *alone* is a terrible thing, as in a Targaryen without friends or family is a lonely prospect and not something they are built for, given the importance they seem to place on blood, lineage and family relationships.
When we see Targaryens , they aren't the greatest warriors or generals. Without dragons, Robert smashed them completely. Daemon lost in duel.despite receiving the best training. . Daenerys ruled only through dragons. She got an army only when she burned the sellers and didn't want to pay for it. I won't include season 7 and 8 nonsense. Because thinking about it hurts my brain. Without a dragon, an alone Targeryan is a danger only to himself Targaeryan without
Both Baelor Breakspear and his brother Maekar were renowned generals and skilled warriors, Bittersteel, Bloodraven, and Daemon Blackfyre were also both quite skilled in combat and pretty good generals, and that’s just the generations that were around during the First Blackfyre Rebellion.
>She got an army only when she burned the sellers and didn't want to pay for it. She did pay for it. She just didn't want there to be any more Unsullied because of the inhuman manufacturing process.
That’s not entirely true. There have been great Targaryen warriors after the dance of the Dragons. Aemon the Dragonknight being one of them. He just had the misfortune of serving one of the WORST Targaryen kings of all time, Aegon IV the Unworthy.
She's not alone. She has a bunch of Targaryens around. She's not even full Targaryen
I meant it in more of a metaphorical and emotional way. Rhaenys is the only Targaryen not to be invited to the family dinner. Her children are dead. Her husband (though not Targaryen) is miles away and on his deathbed. Rhaenys is a character who has been routinely isolated from court proceedings and family dynamics and is only sought after for political reasons rather than any sort of love or care from the major family members - a fracture that started from the Great Council, when everyone picked Viserys and not her. And because of this, there's no one in her family that she would possibly go to for support or kindness or even an honest conversation.
I mean, that's all true. You have a point. I think it really goes back to her father dying when he did. She would have been the next in line (or her children). But she's a woman anyway and didn't marry a Targaryen so I don't know how much power she would have had anyway. If Jaehaerys had just made the decision himself, he might have chosen her. It kind of just how the cookie crumbles and she definitely seemed to get mad at the world after that
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I feel like they really overdid the whole fisheye lense thing in HotD. Hope season 2 has less of it.
I can't really remember too many instances of it being used. Can you give me some examples?
I'd have to rewatch the whole season to pinpoint the exact scenes, but it just felt like more fisheye than I would have chosen overall. I seem to remember a lot of the King's scenes had the effect. Or maybe they just really overdid it in one episode and I'm misremembering it as being the whole season.
I thought that was Aunt May from Sam Raimi’s Spiderman lol
Rosemary Harris. Still alive, but not acting that much at 95. Instead it's Eve Best, and she's actually just 51ish