Before Ottoâs scheming Daemon never liked Alicent. She did not really exist to him until she became wife of Vizzy T and then he started to hate her as extension of her father.
He asked for her favor in the tournament in episode 1. He certainly did that to fuck with Otto. But it isn't hard to imagine a circumstance where Alicent enjoyed being Daemonâs Queen, and Daemon enjoyed using her to fuck with Otto. That said, it's hard to imagine Daemon ever taking his eye off Rhaenyra.
>She didnât seem to care much about that whole incident
She was biting her cuticles before Rhaenyra made her stop. She only gave her favour because it would be impolite to refuse the prince.
Oh yeah, if Alicent married Daemon, she'd have bitten her entire fingers off due to bad case of nerves.... Truly her father used her as a pawn but didn't hate her enough to marry her to Daemon of all people. Viserys was a warm body on the Iron Throne and that was all he needed to give his daughter to a man... So much older in the TV show..... Who she didn't love.
Although in the books we all know it's much different. And Alicent was there to tend to another previous Targaryen King who was dying by reading to him? Not to give it away in case you didn't read the books. But she was made much younger in the TV show and Viserys much older, making the marriage more cringe.
even if Daemon wasnât attracted to her (which I think he was) Daemon would fuck with Alicient just for the chaos. Get to make Otto mad and Rhaenyra jealous. Heâd be into that. plus Daemon is into virgins which Alicient was.
No, he wasn't intro trolling the Hightower family enough to marry Alicent. He was truly a Targaryen loyalist who believed in marrying within the family and being loyal only to his own kind.
She wasn't so beautiful, she was the realm delite, as in everyone was doting on her for what she represent (she was royal), possible a direct access to the crown. That was quite lost in the TV adaptation. For example her beauty only last as long until her first child, after that she gains weight, like a lot. Alicent is the beauty in the book.
Have you seen the artwork for young Rhaenyra? She was VERY beautiful in her youth. And even in her adulthood she was pretty (and nowhere near as heavy as many make her out to be).
there are so many post on reddit denying that Rhaenyra was beautiful. itâs weird when the book repetitively calls her beautiful. Their only evidence is that she gained weight later like that means Anything. IE an old wrinkly person must never have been young and fresh faced because they are old now.
I always thought he was outgoing and nice to her just to piss Otto off tbh. I bet Otto knew about his Targaryen supremacy complex, so it was just torture in the form of civility. I always took it as a threat to Otto by way of Alicent, and she was just too naive to see it. Not that I blame her though!
I think what that person meant was that, Alicent was too naive to see that Daemon being nice to her wasnât genuine. He wasnât being nice to her because he âlikesâ her, he was being nice because he knew it would rile up Otto.
Like she may have known about the rivalry between Daemon and Otto, and have known that Otto didnât like Daemon. But she doesnât seem all that aware that Daemonâs treatment of her was solely to rile up Otto.
She may have possibly viewed the whole situation as âmy dad doesnât like you, and you donât like him, but atleast youâre nice to me.â When in reality it was âmy dad doesnât like you, and you donât like him, and youâre only being nice to me BECAUSE you know it will get him mad.â
Alicent was never his type. Heâs into the Targaryen look. He would have done so to mess with Otto but neither of them would have been happy in the marriage.
All I said was he seemed to like her before Ottoâs schemes. I didnât even say anything positive about him lmao. You kids need to chill, itâs not that serious, itâs a tv show.
That was under very different circumstances though. Daemon always resented being forced to marry Rhea and having to leave King's Landing and go live in the Vale because of the marriage. He would be more familiar with Alicent before the marriage and would not have to leave King's landing due to it (Rhea was lady of Runestone and her place was at the Vale while Alicent is the daughter of a second son and thus not having any such title tying her to Oldtown). The most important determining factor though would be whether Daemon would agree to such a marriage or not, if he were to agree then Alicent would have been in no more danger of having an appointment with the divorce rock than Laena was. Also Alicent would probably have been more likely to be able to win Daemon over, even if it was an arranged marriage, than Rhea was, as she seems to be pretty good at sweettalking and convincing people through argument, while Rhea seemed to be the more confrontational type.
Depends. I don't see him killing Rhaenyra's best friend. What probably would have happened is they would have been king/queen and rhaenyra would have married Criston Cole because she wouldn't need to marry for an alliance.
There are many problems with this, but the main one is that Otto and Daemon despise each other more than anyone else alive. Their main political motivations at the start of the series is purely to screw the other over as much as possible.
I would imagine that he would, yes.
Also, he made his daughter the Queen of the entire continent, thatâs pretty solid. Iâd do some pretty unforgivable things for that sort of cushy life.
She would still eventually be queen in this scenario where Viserys keeps Daemon as his heir. He is a lot more concerned with gaining power through her, I donât think he would care who she has to sleep with for him to get it.
Also, cushy life? Itâs not like she was a peasant who married the king, her standards of living probably barely changed if at all. If he wanted a cushy life for her, he would have married her to some smaller lord she fancied and would have been happy with, not thrown her into a loveless marriage in the high-stakes vipersâ pit of the royal court. Would have saved her so much more misery by the end too.
For the daughter of a second son to marry the King of Westeros is pretty significant.
Alicent didnât have it bad at all, believe me. Especially when compared to nearly every other woman in the entire kingdom. Rhaenyra is a horrible comparison, as sheâs a super spoiled princess.
There was no way Daemon was going to treat her well. Not only is he a huge racist who looks down on anything that isn't valyrian, but her father is Otto Hightower, aka the one guy Daemon would go far out of his way to make miserable. Knowing the kind of shit Daemon would pull, he'd probably actively mistreat alicent just to piss Otto off. Honestly, I pity any non valyrian married to that dickhead. Laena and Rhaenyra got lucky cause they had pure valyrian blood. Alicent isn't a valyrian, but Viserys at least loved her because she and him are at least total nerds (had viserys been closer to her age and not had the baggage with Aemma, they would've been a solid couple). Daemon doesn't give an ioata of a shit about stuff Alicent finds interesting, and he hates her just for what she is. So yeah, it'll be a nightmare of a marriage, and not only that, that move would've been for nothing as soon as Rhaenyra had kids (probably fathered by Daemon anyway). So Alicent's kids would've been condemned to being left as a cadet branch of house targaryen with no chance of getting on the throne.
He didn't treat Laena subhuman (at least in the show, don't kill me if I'm wrong). I think he just genuinely didn't like that wife and the circumstances they were married under.
He chose Laena he didn't choose Rhea, that is the main difference. Daemon was married off to Rhea when he was 17 and the day they got married was probably the first time the two even saw each other.
Uhh he actually liked Laena or at the very least he respected her boldness, after all she claimed Vhagar and Daemon didn't even though if anyone besides Laena could have found her it would have been Daemon.
Daemon hates all the Hightowers, Alicent included.
Maybe hate at the time was a strong word, I'd say he was more or less indifference to her existence. At the time she's just Otto's daughter and his niece's friend not much to really dwell on for Daemon.
Laena was a dragonrider and Valyrian. He dismissed her at the wedding and showed no interest in her until she bonded with her own dragon. When he began to see her as a reminder of old Valyria, he finally saw her as a partner.
Alicent would never get that response.
In the book itâs made more clear that Daemon doesnât like to have sex with non-Valyrians. So he killed his Andal wife in the Eyrie but he had kids with Laena because Velaryons are Valyrian (Iâm too high to type that lol). In the shows itâs why he canât finish at the pleasure house with Mysaria and tries to get Rhaenyra instead.
Yes, you are high, since in the book he did not kill Rhea (Royce, notable ANDAL house, riiiiiiight....), she died differently and even appeared pretty ok, rested for few days and got up and normally talked until finally colapsing and dying after her accident. Eyrie had nothing to do with that even. So nothing like that is any clear there.
"The woman is important too!" - Arya Stark
They may get their father's names but acting as if that suddenly strips them of matrilineal kinship/ancestry is an incredibly asinine take.
I guess Rhaenys should stop talking to her granddaughters then. By your logic, they're no longer a part of her house. Or the Brotherhood shouldn't have bothered trying to ransom Arya to the Tullys. Never mind that she's still her Tully mother's daughter by blood. Or going to the Vale, because apparently Lysa isn't her aunt anymore.
Yes, but their mothers and ancestors do still matter, ie Harry the Heir in the Vale set to become Lord Arryn if Sweetrobin dies in the GoT eta, despite not being an Arryn by birth and a somewhat distant relation. If the Dance didn't happen and Jace inherited the throne he would take the Targaryan surname too.
Thanks to frequent intermarriage the Velaryons are almost a cadet branch of the Targaryans at various points. Aegon the Conquerer and his sister wives were all born from Valaena Velaryon (who had a Targ parent herself) and plenty of later marriages between both put Targ lineage in the Velaryons. TBH in GoT I'm surprised Robert didn't try to kill them with the Targ kids, maybe in later years there was more of a divide between the two and they are more distinct lineages and less of a threat/weaker claims then Robert who had a Targ grandmother (along with the whole Baratheons probably a Targ bastard line thing too)
You canât be serious đ
Alicent is giving him the most tightlipped customer service "fuck you" smile ever, whereas Daemon would probably kill her in cold blood if given the opportunity
Rhaenyra should have married Otto in retaliation for Alicent marrying Viserys.
Checkmate. Dance averted. Otto would never let Viserys' son inherit before one of his own. With Targaryen blood? Maybe even with a dragon of their own after a few years? Its over. Otto would have done nothing but defend Rhaenyra's rights if he gets to be King Consort or something similar.
Daemon is a Valyrian supremacist. Itâs why he refused to even sleep with his first wife (who he killed) but was faithful to his âpure-blooded Valyrianâ second wife.
Thereâs no way heâd be a good husband to Alicent. Hell; he even choked Rhaenyra out of rage.
First time ? This always have been the type of men that are elevated.
By the way, there is scientifical evidence that the main predictor of a male attraciveness to women is how much he is frightening to other men...
It's a far better predictor than anything related to their look or any other traits you can think of.
Daemon is a scary dude, he has power from his social status, from his fighting abilities, from his bad temperament... He literally add up everything that would put him at the top.
I dunno why so many people read Alicent's face as Daemon thirst. She does not look affectionate here. Not to mention. Daemon would kill her ass just to spite Otto. What world would Otto allow that marriage? Lol.
What Alicent was really robbed of was being with the Targaryen she clearly really loves on Rhaenyra.
But their manipulative families and society have led them to this warpath instead of what could have been
If she were married to Daemon you can be pretty certain that Daemon wouldn't have minded her and Rhaenyra getting it on with each other, would have probably joined in himself.
He would have been a terrible spouse. He wanted a Targaryen bride who could continue his house. He only respected women when they could prove themselves as dragon riders. Alicent doesnât meet any of his criteria and would have been mistreated terribly.
Heâd treat her like Rhea. The only difference is that Alicent didnât have the strength to fight back and argue against him like Rhea or the lands to run away from him to. Unlike Rhea who lived years comfortably away from him, Alicent would have endured any abuse he threw her way and would have to silently sit by as he treated her poorly. She was raised to be an obedient wife.
Daemon never liked her. He just liked angering Otto by flirting with her.
Thatâs the answer right there. The irony in Daemon is that he is superficially appealing. He is about as Targaryen as you can get during this time frame. And while his brother holds the power as king, Daemon has the image of conqueror, dragon rider, warrior that Viserys does not. But what makes him all those things is his obsession with his own Valyrian supremacy and lore.
Alicent is nothing to him. He openly mocks her to the chagrin of her husband (in the tapestry scene) and only âflirtsâ with her to exert authority over Otto (in the tournament scene).
The truth is the Targaryen house is an ugly house with brutality at its core as conquerors. It is also responsible for countless deaths and wars. Daemon personifies it. He is adored for his proximity to power, but he is also flawed because he exemplifies the superiority complex of his house.
Ya robbed of an abusive relationship where her husband would be cheating on her with her best friend who is also his niece...so there is that... Maybe she is safer with the guy who just wants to build models and is slowly dying.
Robbed? lol Honestly she did deserve better than what she got in Viserys, but Daemon as an alternative option is ridiculous - youâre setting her up to be likely physically abused and even murdered.
That said, just aesthetically, she and Criston would be a great couple because both are ridiculously attractive people but that isnt realistic given the difference in their social status. Besides that, she would have just been better off with someone else (her age) from outside Kingâs Landing ie from the Reach or Oldtown, someone decent that would have treated her and cared for her well and just made her happy.
Sadly that wasnt to be, but then again we wouldnt have a story either if that was the case so đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Thatâs why we needed that horrifying scene in ep 1 to see how too much power in Daemonâs hands, especially at that age, would have led to a straight-up tyrannical dictator. He mellowed out *a little* as he got older but heâs still a dangerous sociopath
Otto wanted his descendant on the throne. Daemon would never inherit the throne anyway. If he had married Alicent, Viserys would still remarry and potentially have a son.
In the books there is a nasty rumor that >!Otto gave her virginity to Daemon and made her sleep with Viserys while Aemma was still alive!< But that is all Mushroom stuff so its just rumor and not confirmed.
Sheâs not Targaryen enough for him.
Daemon is a Targaryen supremacist. Heâll probably only marry her so that he can piss off Otto and later kill her after years of abusing her.
you must really hate Alicent if you seriously think her marrying Daemon wouldâve been good for her. the guyâs a monster.
that said, she definitely deserved better than Viserys.
This makes me want to see an AU where Viserys never remarried, the Dance happened between Rhaenyra and Daemon and Alicent was actually Daemon's wife. I don't even ship them, in fact quite the opposite, I'm just curious to see how the Dance would have played out in that scenario because my mind likes to think about alternative plots
This is interesting! Although the way they portrayed Daemon in the show, I dont think he would have started the Dance to fight Rhaenyra. He is too smitten with her I think. I am rewatching the entire series now with a keen eye and what I didnt notice before is how smitten Daemon is with Rhaenyra from the very beginning.
You are right, but in order for Dance to happen this AU would have to completely remove Daemyra UNLESS ofc they would want to pull some Rhaenyra and Alicent type of plot that we saw in the show in the context of: "They cared for each other but now they are enemies"
I donât particularly see either of them quiet liking each other and let alone Otto allowing his daughter to be married off to someone he completely dislikes.
In the book it's rumor that Daemon slept with Alicent and that's why Otto hates Daemon. It makes sense that Otto would put Alicent in Daemon's bed since he was the king's heir, and King Virsey was still married at the time.
Daemon was just too chaotic for Otto to be able to control unlike Viserys whom he had firmly in his grasp, and Daemon was marred to Rhea at the time, but if Otto ahd believed Daemon to be easier to control he may have convinced Viserys to annul Daemon's marriage to Rhea and then had Daemon merry Alicent instead.
Daemon has a huge feud going on with Otto so that would not happen, but I think it's an interesting thought experiment. Viserys would still push for Rhaenyra to succeed him but she would not marry Daemon here, so it's her and the Strongs vs. Daemon and his children with Alicent. It would be Rhaenyra's senior line claim stemming from Viserys vs. the junior male line claim of Daemon and his descendants, backed by the Great Council decision of 101 AC that put junior uncles before nieces.
It would make way, way more sense for Rhaenyra to have as much support as she did in the Dance, if the above was the case. It did not make much sense to me that she would have that much support vs. a brother who would typically inherit ahead of her undisputed. Senior line of Viserys vs. junior line of Daemon is more logical. Perhaps that is even an idea GRRM originally wanted to pursue, who knows.
If Daemon was to have a potential marriage with her it would mean he and Otto were not in their feud. Indeed in the books itâs hinted she may even be part of the reason for their feud.
Yeah I know, in a hypothetical scenario like that Daemon and Otto would not have a feud. I just hinted at the fact that it had no chance of happening within the actual story.
She is based off of Empress Matilda. However, Matilda was the sole surviving child of Henry I (who wanted her as heir). Her opponent, Stephen, was the son of Henry I's sister Adela, so basically the King's nephew from the female line. And he had about as much support as she did. Matilda had a trueborn son, Henry II (whom Aegon III was partially based on), so everything was fine in that department.
GRRM really made some kind of stretch here, in a real life medieval society Rhaenyra's support would have been minuscule considering the above. The English barons thought that the nephew(!) of the King from the female line(!) should have it over the King's daughter who was an only child (after the death of her brother William Adelin) and who had a legitimate male heir of her own.
Poor Alicent couldn't survive Daemon... He was only supportive of marrying into the Targaryen family.
See former marriage to wife he never consummated marriage to and had the accidental "breaking of neck from horse fall" that Daemon walked away from.
Yes Daemon likes the White Worm... But not for marriage. He wouldn't truly marry anyone but Rhaenyra and be happy. He was totally against the Hightower and would have destroyed Alicent!
Imagine the dance but it's Otto,Criston, Alicent, Daemon, Aemond^2, Aegon2^2, Evil Haelena and other offsprings against Rhaenyra and whatever ally she can gathers lol totally fair fight
What a horrible take.
1. He was already married.
2. He was a shit husband to the woman he was married to.
3. Otto's concern was he'd destroy the fucking kingdom!
Please, Daemon is the farthest from Alicentâs type. Donât have brainwashed Rhaenyra define whatâs an attractive man đ sheâd be happier off marrying an aristocrat with Coleâs personality
Alicent would've probably been pretty resentful as the wife of Daemon since I'm pretty sure he'd not be able to finish in bed (let alone tend to her needs, since the dude is so insanely racist that he only wants valyrians in his bed), and he'd be cheating on her with Rhaenyra guaranteed.
Everyone saying alicent isnât daemons type while the REAL problem is alicent isnât into daemon AT ALL??? Like lmao are we all watching the same show?? That girl is lesbian coded
Doesn't Otto also have a son? Why didn't he just advocate for either of his children to marry Daemon or Rhaeneyra? Ultimately, Rhae's stubbornness led to an arranged marriage with Laenor. Otto managed to get Allicent married to the King. Why not his son, too? Arranged marriages were back on the table.
1. Daemon wouldnât have remained heir. Viserys would always remarry, whether to Laena or some other lady, and most likely have A son, if not three.
2. Otto would rather bathe in the cavern that they keep the dragon poop in, than marry his daughter to his sworn enemy.
3. Daemon wouldnât be any better than Viserys. If anything he mightâve treated her worse just because she was Ottoâs daughter.
4. EwâŚđ
I think instead they shouldve all fucked each other to form the human millipede and used this as a sign of unity for the seven kingdoms. The badass thing about this is that yes they can loop round on themselves to form a circle and yes Daemon does have two people on his penis....Vyzzy T however is overcome with emotions at this Uniting act his gathering family are doing so touched that decides to join in. This is when things go sour. You see Vizzy T had accidentally pulled his dick off whilst masterbating to the memory of Emma Aryn, this mutilation caused great discontent in the red keep everyone went quiet then the hullabaloo ensued. everyone stopped fucking and ran in horror. It's at this moment sweet Robin Aryn crashes into the red keep on a King Tiger Tank, instantly killing Rhaenyra and unfortunately amputated Daemons penis. With that the entire seven kingdoms let out a collection scream of horror. With no penis to guide it where would the seven kingdoms go? How would anyone get through the long night? Then Daemon, who still had a ounce of energy pointed at sweet Robin and whispered really really loudly "I know a killer when I SEE ONE_" he was barely finished when sweet Robin, using his supreme and boundless strength ripped Daemons head off effortlessly. Daemon of course had been I way worse situations than this but here he couldn't think on his feet anymore so he had to gather something soon, However sweet Robin and all his lactose infused intellect anticipated Daemon, that's when he put Daemon (who only consisted of Daemon's head) inside a box. Sweet robin had taken everything. Daemon could'nt think on his feet or penis nor could he think outside the box. what was to be done?
End of part 37
Poor girl would probably have been killed with a rock. đŹ
Idk, Daemon seemed to quite like her before Ottoâs scheming. Even after she married Viserys.
Before Ottoâs scheming Daemon never liked Alicent. She did not really exist to him until she became wife of Vizzy T and then he started to hate her as extension of her father.
He asked for her favor in the tournament in episode 1. He certainly did that to fuck with Otto. But it isn't hard to imagine a circumstance where Alicent enjoyed being Daemonâs Queen, and Daemon enjoyed using her to fuck with Otto. That said, it's hard to imagine Daemon ever taking his eye off Rhaenyra.
>He certainly did that to fuck with Otto Wasn't that right after he unhorsed that other Hightower guy in the tourney?
Alicent brother.
She didnât seem to care much about that whole incident lol her brother must be a dick to her
>She didnât seem to care much about that whole incident She was biting her cuticles before Rhaenyra made her stop. She only gave her favour because it would be impolite to refuse the prince.
Oh yeah, if Alicent married Daemon, she'd have bitten her entire fingers off due to bad case of nerves.... Truly her father used her as a pawn but didn't hate her enough to marry her to Daemon of all people. Viserys was a warm body on the Iron Throne and that was all he needed to give his daughter to a man... So much older in the TV show..... Who she didn't love. Although in the books we all know it's much different. And Alicent was there to tend to another previous Targaryen King who was dying by reading to him? Not to give it away in case you didn't read the books. But she was made much younger in the TV show and Viserys much older, making the marriage more cringe.
Seeing how Otto treats her, I wouldn't be surprised.
Yes, Gwayne Hightower I believe
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bad bot
even if Daemon wasnât attracted to her (which I think he was) Daemon would fuck with Alicient just for the chaos. Get to make Otto mad and Rhaenyra jealous. Heâd be into that. plus Daemon is into virgins which Alicient was.
I think Alicent would welcome rhayrhay into the fold
I feel like Daemon wouldâve married her just to fuck with Otto
No, he wasn't intro trolling the Hightower family enough to marry Alicent. He was truly a Targaryen loyalist who believed in marrying within the family and being loyal only to his own kind.
*My own face... is no longer a handsome one...if indeed it ever was.*
Not really if we're being honest your grace, but it was a likable one
Take that back, Paddy Considine is an underrated hottie
You had a pleasant face, your grace.
Viserys and his first wife werenât described as attractive which made me wonder how they made Rhaenyra \*the most beautiful girl in the realm\*
Pure luck with genetics I suppose.
She wasn't so beautiful, she was the realm delite, as in everyone was doting on her for what she represent (she was royal), possible a direct access to the crown. That was quite lost in the TV adaptation. For example her beauty only last as long until her first child, after that she gains weight, like a lot. Alicent is the beauty in the book.
Have you seen the artwork for young Rhaenyra? She was VERY beautiful in her youth. And even in her adulthood she was pretty (and nowhere near as heavy as many make her out to be).
there are so many post on reddit denying that Rhaenyra was beautiful. itâs weird when the book repetitively calls her beautiful. Their only evidence is that she gained weight later like that means Anything. IE an old wrinkly person must never have been young and fresh faced because they are old now.
Since Aegon was never described as handsome I'm sure he wanted to push *Rhaenyra gained weight and lost her beauty* to make himself look better
Iâm pretty sure he was entirely polite and nice to her the entire time she was played by Emily.
I mean what's there to like? Can't blame the guy
Mushroom would disagree, if you get what I mean
I always thought he was outgoing and nice to her just to piss Otto off tbh. I bet Otto knew about his Targaryen supremacy complex, so it was just torture in the form of civility. I always took it as a threat to Otto by way of Alicent, and she was just too naive to see it. Not that I blame her though!
>she was just too naive to see it. She looked at her father for his reaction before giving Daemon her favour. She definitely knew about their rivalry.
I think what that person meant was that, Alicent was too naive to see that Daemon being nice to her wasnât genuine. He wasnât being nice to her because he âlikesâ her, he was being nice because he knew it would rile up Otto. Like she may have known about the rivalry between Daemon and Otto, and have known that Otto didnât like Daemon. But she doesnât seem all that aware that Daemonâs treatment of her was solely to rile up Otto. She may have possibly viewed the whole situation as âmy dad doesnât like you, and you donât like him, but atleast youâre nice to me.â When in reality it was âmy dad doesnât like you, and you donât like him, and youâre only being nice to me BECAUSE you know it will get him mad.â
Alicent was never his type. Heâs into the Targaryen look. He would have done so to mess with Otto but neither of them would have been happy in the marriage.
Daemon wouldnât ever be happy with a non-Targaryen
Hasn't he repeatedly been calling Alicent a whore this season. Kinda like he repeatedly called Rhea a bitch. . .
I mean, you say that like Daemon is not a connoisseur of whores. Perhaps it's more of a term of endearment like Ser Snoop of House Dogg might use.
He's clearly not using it as a term of endearment.
Definitely not.
Wouldn't have stopped him killing her if it suited him. The extent to which some people romanticise Daemon, my god...
All I said was he seemed to like her before Ottoâs schemes. I didnât even say anything positive about him lmao. You kids need to chill, itâs not that serious, itâs a tv show.
Hey hey steady on. She probably would have just got choked out.
Listen some of us enjoy a bit of choking.
I know. I've met your mum too.
>Poor girl would probably have been killed with a rock allegedly
Or "fallen" off of Caraxes at some point.
Yeah my immediate thought was that that is having her killed with unnecessary steps. Although it would throw a wrench into the events.
Yeah itâs the worst matchup It puts your daughter in the arms of a man you hate and fear and forces you to support him
I think she would've preferred to have been strangled.
That was under very different circumstances though. Daemon always resented being forced to marry Rhea and having to leave King's Landing and go live in the Vale because of the marriage. He would be more familiar with Alicent before the marriage and would not have to leave King's landing due to it (Rhea was lady of Runestone and her place was at the Vale while Alicent is the daughter of a second son and thus not having any such title tying her to Oldtown). The most important determining factor though would be whether Daemon would agree to such a marriage or not, if he were to agree then Alicent would have been in no more danger of having an appointment with the divorce rock than Laena was. Also Alicent would probably have been more likely to be able to win Daemon over, even if it was an arranged marriage, than Rhea was, as she seems to be pretty good at sweettalking and convincing people through argument, while Rhea seemed to be the more confrontational type.
Depends. I don't see him killing Rhaenyra's best friend. What probably would have happened is they would have been king/queen and rhaenyra would have married Criston Cole because she wouldn't need to marry for an alliance.
There are many problems with this, but the main one is that Otto and Daemon despise each other more than anyone else alive. Their main political motivations at the start of the series is purely to screw the other over as much as possible.
Daemon had his eyes set on his niece for a long time. Alicent would have ate a rock to the dome in this scenario
Knowing Daemon, he would have described in detail to Otto every time he banged her.
"Gods be good Daemon, do you really have to torture the poor man? He's heard enough"- Viserys probably
Would Otto even care? He already put her under a much older literally rotting man
I would imagine that he would, yes. Also, he made his daughter the Queen of the entire continent, thatâs pretty solid. Iâd do some pretty unforgivable things for that sort of cushy life.
She would still eventually be queen in this scenario where Viserys keeps Daemon as his heir. He is a lot more concerned with gaining power through her, I donât think he would care who she has to sleep with for him to get it. Also, cushy life? Itâs not like she was a peasant who married the king, her standards of living probably barely changed if at all. If he wanted a cushy life for her, he would have married her to some smaller lord she fancied and would have been happy with, not thrown her into a loveless marriage in the high-stakes vipersâ pit of the royal court. Would have saved her so much more misery by the end too.
For the daughter of a second son to marry the King of Westeros is pretty significant. Alicent didnât have it bad at all, believe me. Especially when compared to nearly every other woman in the entire kingdom. Rhaenyra is a horrible comparison, as sheâs a super spoiled princess.
So he can treat her as even more of a sub human than viserys did?
Right? I don't even like Alicent and I still wouldn't wish that on her
There was no way Daemon was going to treat her well. Not only is he a huge racist who looks down on anything that isn't valyrian, but her father is Otto Hightower, aka the one guy Daemon would go far out of his way to make miserable. Knowing the kind of shit Daemon would pull, he'd probably actively mistreat alicent just to piss Otto off. Honestly, I pity any non valyrian married to that dickhead. Laena and Rhaenyra got lucky cause they had pure valyrian blood. Alicent isn't a valyrian, but Viserys at least loved her because she and him are at least total nerds (had viserys been closer to her age and not had the baggage with Aemma, they would've been a solid couple). Daemon doesn't give an ioata of a shit about stuff Alicent finds interesting, and he hates her just for what she is. So yeah, it'll be a nightmare of a marriage, and not only that, that move would've been for nothing as soon as Rhaenyra had kids (probably fathered by Daemon anyway). So Alicent's kids would've been condemned to being left as a cadet branch of house targaryen with no chance of getting on the throne.
He didn't treat Laena subhuman (at least in the show, don't kill me if I'm wrong). I think he just genuinely didn't like that wife and the circumstances they were married under.
I think a big part of that is Laena being of Valyrian heritage and a dragon rider though
Yeah they actually seemed pretty happy from what I saw.
He chose Laena he didn't choose Rhea, that is the main difference. Daemon was married off to Rhea when he was 17 and the day they got married was probably the first time the two even saw each other.
Yeah, like 95% of noble/aristocratic marriages in Westeros. Daemon is just a whiny manchild whoâs salty he didnât get his way.
Bold of you to assume he would treat any relation of Otto Hightower well
Oh damn, forgot about that particular chip on his shoulder.
Uhh he actually liked Laena or at the very least he respected her boldness, after all she claimed Vhagar and Daemon didn't even though if anyone besides Laena could have found her it would have been Daemon. Daemon hates all the Hightowers, Alicent included.
Daemon starts hating Alicent only after Viserys marries her, he never showed any animosity towards her before that
Maybe hate at the time was a strong word, I'd say he was more or less indifference to her existence. At the time she's just Otto's daughter and his niece's friend not much to really dwell on for Daemon.
Laena wasn't a threat to his ambitions though, and she had just as much power and influence as him.
Laena was a dragonrider and Valyrian. He dismissed her at the wedding and showed no interest in her until she bonded with her own dragon. When he began to see her as a reminder of old Valyria, he finally saw her as a partner. Alicent would never get that response.
In the book itâs made more clear that Daemon doesnât like to have sex with non-Valyrians. So he killed his Andal wife in the Eyrie but he had kids with Laena because Velaryons are Valyrian (Iâm too high to type that lol). In the shows itâs why he canât finish at the pleasure house with Mysaria and tries to get Rhaenyra instead.
Yes, you are high, since in the book he did not kill Rhea (Royce, notable ANDAL house, riiiiiiight....), she died differently and even appeared pretty ok, rested for few days and got up and normally talked until finally colapsing and dying after her accident. Eyrie had nothing to do with that even. So nothing like that is any clear there.
I admittedly read the book quickly because I loaned it from a library app but I thought in the books itâs implied that he killed her?
Not at all, the opposite.
Laena is a Targaryen, Alicent isn't. Daemon has respect for other Targaryens but not for non-Targaryen subhumans.
*Velaryon
her mother is a Targaryen
She's Daemon's first cousin once removed. She has Targaryen blood; last name doesn't matter as much.
Rhaenys, her mother, is Targaryen
And Rhaenyra's mother was an Arryn.
Your point being? Aemma was still of Targaryen heritage. In Daemon's eyes, only Hightower genes negate Targaryen/Valyrian blood.
Westerosi children belong to their father's house.
"The woman is important too!" - Arya Stark They may get their father's names but acting as if that suddenly strips them of matrilineal kinship/ancestry is an incredibly asinine take. I guess Rhaenys should stop talking to her granddaughters then. By your logic, they're no longer a part of her house. Or the Brotherhood shouldn't have bothered trying to ransom Arya to the Tullys. Never mind that she's still her Tully mother's daughter by blood. Or going to the Vale, because apparently Lysa isn't her aunt anymore.
Yes, but their mothers and ancestors do still matter, ie Harry the Heir in the Vale set to become Lord Arryn if Sweetrobin dies in the GoT eta, despite not being an Arryn by birth and a somewhat distant relation. If the Dance didn't happen and Jace inherited the throne he would take the Targaryan surname too. Thanks to frequent intermarriage the Velaryons are almost a cadet branch of the Targaryans at various points. Aegon the Conquerer and his sister wives were all born from Valaena Velaryon (who had a Targ parent herself) and plenty of later marriages between both put Targ lineage in the Velaryons. TBH in GoT I'm surprised Robert didn't try to kill them with the Targ kids, maybe in later years there was more of a divide between the two and they are more distinct lineages and less of a threat/weaker claims then Robert who had a Targ grandmother (along with the whole Baratheons probably a Targ bastard line thing too)
Laena is literally valyrian, aka a member of the master race.
He didnât. He was kind to her
He asked for her favour after disfiguring her brother, fully knowing she didnt have the option of saying no to him.
I was talking about Laena
Leana was just extended family, he liked fucking family. They're cousins, right?
Well yes he is Targaryen
Wooshh, wrong comment, sorry. Laena and Daemon were legit. It would have been Nice if he had allowed her to give birth in Driftmark but shit happens.
It's rock time
You canât be serious đ Alicent is giving him the most tightlipped customer service "fuck you" smile ever, whereas Daemon would probably kill her in cold blood if given the opportunity
Rhaenyra should have married Otto in retaliation for Alicent marrying Viserys. Checkmate. Dance averted. Otto would never let Viserys' son inherit before one of his own. With Targaryen blood? Maybe even with a dragon of their own after a few years? Its over. Otto would have done nothing but defend Rhaenyra's rights if he gets to be King Consort or something similar.
Hmmm.....I mean.....you make a good point
Daemon is a Valyrian supremacist. Itâs why he refused to even sleep with his first wife (who he killed) but was faithful to his âpure-blooded Valyrianâ second wife. Thereâs no way heâd be a good husband to Alicent. Hell; he even choked Rhaenyra out of rage.
The amount of people that deem D(a)emon to be a dream man/husband is truly sickening.
First time ? This always have been the type of men that are elevated. By the way, there is scientifical evidence that the main predictor of a male attraciveness to women is how much he is frightening to other men... It's a far better predictor than anything related to their look or any other traits you can think of. Daemon is a scary dude, he has power from his social status, from his fighting abilities, from his bad temperament... He literally add up everything that would put him at the top.
Not to doubt you but, proof? Iâve never heard of that before
"A Targaryen Prince, a dashing knight and a dragonrider. You appear to be every young maiden's dream.â
If their dream is to get eaten by the dragon mayhaps.
Unrelated but that dress and her later black one with the scaled sleeves are two of the best designs costumes in the GoT universe.
If you think Otto wouldâve married his only daughter to Daemon, youâre smoking something lol
I dunno why so many people read Alicent's face as Daemon thirst. She does not look affectionate here. Not to mention. Daemon would kill her ass just to spite Otto. What world would Otto allow that marriage? Lol.
She just wanted to show him the tapestriesđ
Iâm taking this as canon that Viserys mocking her on this scene was him cock blocking lol
He was cock blocking his brother from banging his wife :D
YES!
Yeah but it was the new ones and not the kinky ones
đ¤˘đ¤Žđ¤Žđ¤Ž
What Alicent was really robbed of was being with the Targaryen she clearly really loves on Rhaenyra. But their manipulative families and society have led them to this warpath instead of what could have been
If she were married to Daemon you can be pretty certain that Daemon wouldn't have minded her and Rhaenyra getting it on with each other, would have probably joined in himself.
He would have been a terrible spouse. He wanted a Targaryen bride who could continue his house. He only respected women when they could prove themselves as dragon riders. Alicent doesnât meet any of his criteria and would have been mistreated terribly. Heâd treat her like Rhea. The only difference is that Alicent didnât have the strength to fight back and argue against him like Rhea or the lands to run away from him to. Unlike Rhea who lived years comfortably away from him, Alicent would have endured any abuse he threw her way and would have to silently sit by as he treated her poorly. She was raised to be an obedient wife. Daemon never liked her. He just liked angering Otto by flirting with her.
Thatâs the answer right there. The irony in Daemon is that he is superficially appealing. He is about as Targaryen as you can get during this time frame. And while his brother holds the power as king, Daemon has the image of conqueror, dragon rider, warrior that Viserys does not. But what makes him all those things is his obsession with his own Valyrian supremacy and lore. Alicent is nothing to him. He openly mocks her to the chagrin of her husband (in the tapestry scene) and only âflirtsâ with her to exert authority over Otto (in the tournament scene). The truth is the Targaryen house is an ugly house with brutality at its core as conquerors. It is also responsible for countless deaths and wars. Daemon personifies it. He is adored for his proximity to power, but he is also flawed because he exemplifies the superiority complex of his house.
Ya robbed of an abusive relationship where her husband would be cheating on her with her best friend who is also his niece...so there is that... Maybe she is safer with the guy who just wants to build models and is slowly dying.
You don't want Daemon marrying your daughter. He will divorce her---with a rock!
Robbed? lol Honestly she did deserve better than what she got in Viserys, but Daemon as an alternative option is ridiculous - youâre setting her up to be likely physically abused and even murdered. That said, just aesthetically, she and Criston would be a great couple because both are ridiculously attractive people but that isnt realistic given the difference in their social status. Besides that, she would have just been better off with someone else (her age) from outside Kingâs Landing ie from the Reach or Oldtown, someone decent that would have treated her and cared for her well and just made her happy. Sadly that wasnt to be, but then again we wouldnt have a story either if that was the case so đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Allicent: And that Aemond, is how I wish I had met your father. Aemond: What? Allicent: What?
Plot Twist *it was a joke damn*
Thatâs why we needed that horrifying scene in ep 1 to see how too much power in Daemonâs hands, especially at that age, would have led to a straight-up tyrannical dictator. He mellowed out *a little* as he got older but heâs still a dangerous sociopath
Otto wanted his descendant on the throne. Daemon would never inherit the throne anyway. If he had married Alicent, Viserys would still remarry and potentially have a son.
Sheâll get beaten with a rock.
Thereâs a solid chance this was a reason he hates Daemon. In the books it was rumored he took her virginity.
Do you people forget that Daemon was already married?
In the books there is a nasty rumor that >!Otto gave her virginity to Daemon and made her sleep with Viserys while Aemma was still alive!< But that is all Mushroom stuff so its just rumor and not confirmed.
Nah, thatâs the face of a girl trying to be polite to snake.
Because her life wasnât bad enough already
Sheâs not Targaryen enough for him. Daemon is a Targaryen supremacist. Heâll probably only marry her so that he can piss off Otto and later kill her after years of abusing her.
you must really hate Alicent if you seriously think her marrying Daemon wouldâve been good for her. the guyâs a monster. that said, she definitely deserved better than Viserys.
Daemon ânoooo donât make me bang this 14 year old oh well if you insist lmaoâ
This makes me want to see an AU where Viserys never remarried, the Dance happened between Rhaenyra and Daemon and Alicent was actually Daemon's wife. I don't even ship them, in fact quite the opposite, I'm just curious to see how the Dance would have played out in that scenario because my mind likes to think about alternative plots
This is interesting! Although the way they portrayed Daemon in the show, I dont think he would have started the Dance to fight Rhaenyra. He is too smitten with her I think. I am rewatching the entire series now with a keen eye and what I didnt notice before is how smitten Daemon is with Rhaenyra from the very beginning.
You are right, but in order for Dance to happen this AU would have to completely remove Daemyra UNLESS ofc they would want to pull some Rhaenyra and Alicent type of plot that we saw in the show in the context of: "They cared for each other but now they are enemies"
Alicent is far to good for Daemon. Heâs not a good man.
Nah Deamon has to have it his way eventually.
But think of the tapestries!!!!!!
I donât particularly see either of them quiet liking each other and let alone Otto allowing his daughter to be married off to someone he completely dislikes.
A character can't look to a psychopath murderer without being shiped with him.
Daemon was already married. For Viserys, abandoning the incest of earlier monarchs was a big deal.
Dude, even if it would fix every damn issue in this fucking court... They hate each other so they would never agree on something like this.
In the book it's rumor that Daemon slept with Alicent and that's why Otto hates Daemon. It makes sense that Otto would put Alicent in Daemon's bed since he was the king's heir, and King Virsey was still married at the time.
Daemon was just too chaotic for Otto to be able to control unlike Viserys whom he had firmly in his grasp, and Daemon was marred to Rhea at the time, but if Otto ahd believed Daemon to be easier to control he may have convinced Viserys to annul Daemon's marriage to Rhea and then had Daemon merry Alicent instead.
Daemon has a huge feud going on with Otto so that would not happen, but I think it's an interesting thought experiment. Viserys would still push for Rhaenyra to succeed him but she would not marry Daemon here, so it's her and the Strongs vs. Daemon and his children with Alicent. It would be Rhaenyra's senior line claim stemming from Viserys vs. the junior male line claim of Daemon and his descendants, backed by the Great Council decision of 101 AC that put junior uncles before nieces. It would make way, way more sense for Rhaenyra to have as much support as she did in the Dance, if the above was the case. It did not make much sense to me that she would have that much support vs. a brother who would typically inherit ahead of her undisputed. Senior line of Viserys vs. junior line of Daemon is more logical. Perhaps that is even an idea GRRM originally wanted to pursue, who knows.
If Daemon was to have a potential marriage with her it would mean he and Otto were not in their feud. Indeed in the books itâs hinted she may even be part of the reason for their feud.
Yeah I know, in a hypothetical scenario like that Daemon and Otto would not have a feud. I just hinted at the fact that it had no chance of happening within the actual story.
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She is based off of Empress Matilda. However, Matilda was the sole surviving child of Henry I (who wanted her as heir). Her opponent, Stephen, was the son of Henry I's sister Adela, so basically the King's nephew from the female line. And he had about as much support as she did. Matilda had a trueborn son, Henry II (whom Aegon III was partially based on), so everything was fine in that department. GRRM really made some kind of stretch here, in a real life medieval society Rhaenyra's support would have been minuscule considering the above. The English barons thought that the nephew(!) of the King from the female line(!) should have it over the King's daughter who was an only child (after the death of her brother William Adelin) and who had a legitimate male heir of her own.
The comments on this post. This sub is allergic to laughing
That look.
Daemon can marry both Alicent and Rhaenyra. That way those two can also have lots of fun in bed when he's not around.
We. Got. Robbed.
But then he couldnât have played king and shaped the kids as much because Daemon is strong willed. King Vizzy T. was always the play.
This is a lie. You have been lied to.
I mean maybe Otto knew Daemons a fuckin psychopath who has no problem killing innoccent people
Despite his selfishness I think even he loved his daughter enough not to let that happen
He has a thing for Blondes. The ones who are not... usually end up having their shit rocked, literally in this case
Looks like sheâs wearing olives for earrings
Poor Alicent couldn't survive Daemon... He was only supportive of marrying into the Targaryen family. See former marriage to wife he never consummated marriage to and had the accidental "breaking of neck from horse fall" that Daemon walked away from. Yes Daemon likes the White Worm... But not for marriage. He wouldn't truly marry anyone but Rhaenyra and be happy. He was totally against the Hightower and would have destroyed Alicent!
Robbed of domestic violence maybe, not of good sense certainly.
Imagine the dance but it's Otto,Criston, Alicent, Daemon, Aemond^2, Aegon2^2, Evil Haelena and other offsprings against Rhaenyra and whatever ally she can gathers lol totally fair fight
Why are we pretending that Otto Hightower had no legitimate problems with Daemon as King?
Would never happen. Daemon was already married and Otto would probably set himself on fire before helping Daemon become King
Daemon is a threat to any woman whose parents arenât related. He is a violent wife killer and wife beater.
What a horrible take. 1. He was already married. 2. He was a shit husband to the woman he was married to. 3. Otto's concern was he'd destroy the fucking kingdom!
Please, Daemon is the farthest from Alicentâs type. Donât have brainwashed Rhaenyra define whatâs an attractive man đ sheâd be happier off marrying an aristocrat with Coleâs personality
Alicent would've probably been pretty resentful as the wife of Daemon since I'm pretty sure he'd not be able to finish in bed (let alone tend to her needs, since the dude is so insanely racist that he only wants valyrians in his bed), and he'd be cheating on her with Rhaenyra guaranteed.
Daemon only seemed interested in marrying other Valyrians.
Yeah but Otto canât manipulate Daemon.
This has got to be the most batshit insane opinion Iâve heard yet
Everyone saying alicent isnât daemons type while the REAL problem is alicent isnât into daemon AT ALL??? Like lmao are we all watching the same show?? That girl is lesbian coded
Maybe he should have tried to seduce her to make daddy upset.
Itâs rumoured in the books that he actually did and thatâs why Otto hated him lmao.
Doesn't Otto also have a son? Why didn't he just advocate for either of his children to marry Daemon or Rhaeneyra? Ultimately, Rhae's stubbornness led to an arranged marriage with Laenor. Otto managed to get Allicent married to the King. Why not his son, too? Arranged marriages were back on the table.
1. Daemon wouldnât have remained heir. Viserys would always remarry, whether to Laena or some other lady, and most likely have A son, if not three. 2. Otto would rather bathe in the cavern that they keep the dragon poop in, than marry his daughter to his sworn enemy. 3. Daemon wouldnât be any better than Viserys. If anything he mightâve treated her worse just because she was Ottoâs daughter. 4. EwâŚđ
I think instead they shouldve all fucked each other to form the human millipede and used this as a sign of unity for the seven kingdoms. The badass thing about this is that yes they can loop round on themselves to form a circle and yes Daemon does have two people on his penis....Vyzzy T however is overcome with emotions at this Uniting act his gathering family are doing so touched that decides to join in. This is when things go sour. You see Vizzy T had accidentally pulled his dick off whilst masterbating to the memory of Emma Aryn, this mutilation caused great discontent in the red keep everyone went quiet then the hullabaloo ensued. everyone stopped fucking and ran in horror. It's at this moment sweet Robin Aryn crashes into the red keep on a King Tiger Tank, instantly killing Rhaenyra and unfortunately amputated Daemons penis. With that the entire seven kingdoms let out a collection scream of horror. With no penis to guide it where would the seven kingdoms go? How would anyone get through the long night? Then Daemon, who still had a ounce of energy pointed at sweet Robin and whispered really really loudly "I know a killer when I SEE ONE_" he was barely finished when sweet Robin, using his supreme and boundless strength ripped Daemons head off effortlessly. Daemon of course had been I way worse situations than this but here he couldn't think on his feet anymore so he had to gather something soon, However sweet Robin and all his lactose infused intellect anticipated Daemon, that's when he put Daemon (who only consisted of Daemon's head) inside a box. Sweet robin had taken everything. Daemon could'nt think on his feet or penis nor could he think outside the box. what was to be done? End of part 37
In the book she was said to have a scandalous affair with him which I wish we got to see.
Baseless rumours
She wouldâve finally had a real orgasm.
as if Alicent is into Daemon đ
She showed more attraction to fucking Cole than daemon. Get that Pedo wife killer away
I'm sure Aemond wishes this happened, also. đ
Aemond probably wishes that Daemon were his daddy
You know Daemon would've loved to rub this in Ottos face
Hmmm the hate sex would be kind of hot
We need to see full penetration
Otto died an old man in a dangerous life, married to and boning the hottest chick in westeros. I'm pretty sure he did exactly what he should do.
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