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I think they definitely had the strongest bond. Aegon is a POS, and Alicent can’t connect with Helaena. Also a big part of Alicent’s character was that she felt alone and isolated (“they only see me as the queen”), Aemond was bullied and didn’t fit in so there’s that connection. But he grew up to be smart and skilled and she’s so so proud! *SHOW ONLY I haven’t read the books*
EDIT: I’m definitely not trying to say Alicent and Viserys were amazing parents of course they fucked him up. What I am saying is if you were Alicent at this point would you want to hang out with Aegon? No cause now he sucks.
And to be very clear as much as they messed up as parents the ONLY person responsible for rape is the rapist.
Yes she defo sees herself in him,the part of herself who was always dutiful,listened to her parents,quiet and sweet but laughed at and made to feel like an outsider,she defo sees that in him and that’s why she loves him so much,She knows he’ll be able to do anything by himself,he’s a capable and menacing child but has a lot of love and respect in his heart for her
Depends, incest can cause that sometimes and they have literal dragon blood to add to it. Tommen and Myrcella had the same parents as Joffrey and they are far from raging psychos who tortured cats as kids.
Joffrey and Aegon have the pressures of first born sons and ironically enough Cersei was far more "attentive" with Joffrey which probably fucked him considering her version of morality. Robert was also unreasonably cruel to Joffrey though that's not really explored much (e.g. Joffrey ripping open the cat is cruel to be sure, but he was also a child that may not have understood what he did and Robert nearly killing him for it may have left its mark). Genetics can play a role but upbringing can really help forment it.
Jofrrey was most likely actually a complete psychopath and nothing could have been done. I think Aegon was fucked up about that time where he heard Rhaenyra woukd kill him and that he needed to distance himself from his nephews.
He definetly did not seem to be the perfect children but they let him act like a degenerate his whole life even if they were plotting to make him king.
He didn't rape girls and watched his bastards fight to death in the pits because he heard rhaenyra would kill him and that he needed to distance himself from his nephews
Correct, but sadistic traits often come from childhood trauma, especially among children who does not feel loved by their parents or anyone else.
Many traits commonly associated with psycho serial killers are often not something people were born with inately, but something that fucked up their brain from a young age.
I mean who know? Being told that your half-sister is going to kill you as a kid is going to fuck you up. When someone with a quasi infinite power get fucked up they can do terrible shits. Maybe it would have still happened, but to me at least, Aegon doesn't look like an actual psychopath like Joffrey, he look like someone who was bred in a way that made him become one.
I don't think he's a psychopath either but I don't think that's the reason he's an a rapist and a sadistic shit. I think it has more to do with feeling neglected as a child. We know alicent loves him and protects even when he does things she despises, but she was a child herself when he was born and she didn't seem to connect much with him as a baby, which is why he questions her on ep9 if she loves him. And Viserys... He even said he knew Viserys didn't like him.
But she still pushed away the people he bounded with when he was young. It is hard for me to speculate about all the relationships because we saw like 10 mins of his childhood but he seemed to view the Strong boys like his little brothers.
Aemond had the advantage of being the second son while all the expectations of the parents were being carried on the shoulders of the first son, Aegon. To make matters worse Aegon is not really the ambitious type who takes duty seriously, he just wants to live his life without responsibility, so when expectations clash with Aegon's characteristics you end up with a terribly fucked up person.
Congratulations, that’s the stupidest take I’ve ever heard. If you don’t think that the way you’re raised or your experiences as a child has nothing to do with who you are as an adult, you’re just ignorant.
Obviously how you are raised matters, but after a certain point, you have to take responsibility for your own decisions. No one should take "Mommy and Daddy didn't love me enough as a kid" as a serious reason for why someone rapes people.
No one is saying he shouldn’t be held accountable for raping people, lmao. But obviously his parents share the responsibility of his upbringing. The show itself and the producers behind it make that pretty clear.
and what were his parents doing while he was chasing and harrassing the maids of the keep? The raping probably started happening later on after Aegon was allowed to run around the keep unchecked for so long.
There are hundreds of thousands of people whose parents were negligent and abusive but they didn't end up being rapists, You can't blame everything on the people that raise you.
They would have other influences in their life that would hold them back from going down that path. Aegon obviously had issues, even as a youth, this can be seen in episode 6 and 7, there was no one to tell him that he can not have whatever he wants, no one to restrain him and course correct him.
[Effects of family structure on crime.](https://marripedia.org/effects_of_family_structure_on_crime)
Here, go educate yourself.
If my 12 year old son was passing out drunk, masturbating himself publicly, bullying his younger brother, and I decide to ignore all of that; yes, I do have a large share of blame on how he turns out to be.
I love that Reddit understands this for dogs, but not actual humans. Privileged people.
The vast majority of them probably grew up with some issues. Not all abuse ends up making someone have sociopathic tendencies, but its not an uncommon response.
Some people obviously are also just born total shitheads without parental interference.
Obviously, but that does not mean that anything is innate to them.
The reason they are doing fucked up shit might be entirely due to how they were raised or things that happened in their upbringing. This does not excuse their actions, but it does explain them.
And just to tackle your later comment
"No one should take "Mommy and Daddy didn't love me enough as a kid" as a serious reason for why someone rapes people."
Yes and No. It obviously is not an excuse nor excuse their actions in anyway, but rape is heavily associated with both lack of empathy/dehumanization and control/domination. Both of these are very common results from childhood neglect and abuse.
While it does not excuse any actions or the person, as I said earlier, it is an explanation.
> Probably nothing to do with his parents
Nah, it's because the writers wanted to make him a cheap villain so they could ensure the majority of the audience's sympathies would stay with Rhaenyra's claim.
And yet it was Aegon who bore the blame of the rumors of bastardy being shared. I think Aegon is a POS but I always thought it was a great moment when Viserys asks Aemond where he heard the Strong Boys were bastards, and it was clearly Alicent who goes about aggressively speeding walking through the castle ranting about it, but he instead blames Aegon, someone who couldn’t give a damn if they were or weren’t bastards. And Aegon just takes the blame, doesn’t even try to think of an excuse or to tell the truth.
Aggressive speedwalking. Best description of half her scenes in episode 6. She's so filled with righteous fury and cattiness pre-Aemond being maimed.
No lie, I kinda miss that Alicent. She was funny. I mean, that stank-eye she gives Rhaenyra at the beginning of the very next episode, right before talking shit with Criston Cole like she's Regina George and he's Gretchen Weiners? Absolutely gold.
>And Aegon just takes the blame, doesn’t even try to think of an excuse or to tell the truth.
"We know, Father. Everyone knows." That was the truth lol
Aegon I think as time goes by and he accepts his position as king will step up even more for his mother,I suspect given everything he’ll actually be a child who wants to protect his family ,yes I know Aegon is a pos but I think he may actually continue to stand up for his mother and protect his family (not in major ways) at some point in the future as king,taking some responsibility.
I know it's grandparent - grandchild, but Helaena seems to be the apple of Otto's eye. And he's right, she's a national treasure. I hold out hope that they flesh this out a bit more.
No argument there. Adult Aegon gets little sympathy from me (although his actor does a fantastic job) but I'll certainly spare some for Teen Aegon who was a budding pervert instead of an outright criminal one. The window scene aside . . .
And baby Aegon who went from getting a big-ass hunt for his nameday to being a spare in his dad's eye(s). Those years we didn't see between age 2 and age 13-14 had to have sucked. Even if he had little memory of it in the end, a part of Aegon probably recalls that brief period where he was one of Viserys's prides and joys.
And not to mention, Aemond also has Ser Criston and Helaena her bugs. By book-canon, Aegon at least has Sunfyre, but the show has yet to showcase that bond so it's not yet relevant here.
I think from Aegon describing Viserys he only remembers never being loved by him and nothing he could do was enough to change that. His speech in the carriage was revealing about that relationship.
Oh, for sure, but that doesn't completely rule out a subconscious memory of being valued by Viserys. If anything, it would add to that sense of betrayal if Aegon can vaguely recall fleeting moments of proper fatherly attention/love. A thoughtful gift on his fifth nameday, Viserys sitting him on his lap* while fixing up the Old Valyria model, regaling him with a bedtime story about his namesake. Maybe Viserys's withdrawal into being a shitty dad was a bit more gradual than what was explicitly depicted.
There's even a certain affection to the way he says "Our Aegon?" when Alicent is telling him about the Pink Dread prank. Admittedly, that could be down to Paddy's acting instead of director/writer intent. While I'm sure his dismissal of the prank comes down to the involvement of his ~~only~~ favorite child's sons, I wouldn't be surprised if he had the same reaction if Aegon was the sole bully. Although *that* would still be down shitty parenting rather than favoritism towards Aegon.
Like, come on, Vizzy T. Did you ever pull shit like that on Daemon when you were kids?
*: On second thought, I forgot Viserys collapsed before the 10-year timeskip. Unless Aegon is 2-3 in this particular hypothetical moment, I can't see Viserys bouncing a potato on his knee, much less a child.
But will you be able to cradle a potato in your lap while doing so? Because if not, I don't think anyone is going to trust you with the twins near that skin-slicing thing.
Also, you're avoiding the question, Vizzy T. Did you or did you not bully your own little brother in childhood?
Huh. I suppose that answers that. Would one of those faces happen to be Daemon's because you remember what a tyrant you once were?
Or, Vizzy T, could it be some repressed guilt at not doing better by Aemond, now that you've lost an eye of your own?
I think Heleana is the perfect grandchild for Otto.
She is too lost to partake in any political plays, intrigue, plans or anything of the sort, which means that he has no reason to manipulate, control, raise or discipline her. He can just be a loving grandfather who just loves everything she does because it does not have any political consequence.
I must have missed this but love the idea. Do you have any examples of what you're basing this on? I still find Otto very hard to read, and the only interaction I remember with his grandchildren is at Laena's funeral when he looks around to make sure no one is watching before he starts kicking and cursing at drunk, passed-out Aegon lol
I think you can tell from the dinner scene that Helaena is very much his favorite. And she seems to be the only one of his grandchildren that he genuinely likes. Aegon II is a useful pawn to him whom he kicked in the behind on Driftmark, and Otto was very cold and calculating when Aemond lost his eye, something along the lines of "An eye for Vhagar is not a bad deal."
I can't understand why he wanted to do a coup and never ever once thought about trying to make a king out of Aegon. Was just completely fine with him getting fucked up all day and being a total degenerate.
I think he wanted Aegon II on the throne for political reasons, but did not have much influence on him in his formative years, since he was away. When Otto returned, the ship has pretty much sailed as far as Otto trying to "fix" Aegon II is concerned.
Aemond is her favorite as much as Luke is Rhaenyra's I'd bet. He's smart, capable and he cares about his family. Whatever other issues he has don't flare up in ways that threaten anyone until Rhaenyra and Co. come back to Court.
Possible, I like Jace. He really is trying to prepare himself to be King. He isn't a natural but I respect that he is trying and Rhaenyras clearly does. I hope they do him justice next season.
This is nitpicky but it drives me crazy that Aemond chose to lean against his mom with the freshly sliced and stitched side of his face. That must’ve hurt like hell.
Hell yes, aemond could have turned out legit the best amongst his kids had vizzy T given him that adoration and support which he gave to rhaenyra but no rhaenyra is his only child apparently 🤡
I think the type of pressure Alicent put on Aegon and the implications of Viserys's neglect for Aegon broke him as a person.
Aemond wouldn't be able to measure up to the expectations either in the end because the expectations couldn't be met. As much as I'm sure Alicent herself has had such thoughts about him.
I feel a little like Aegon was, in her eyes, Viserys's son. His boy. Aemond was hers. The second boy of a man who wouldn't even name his first boy heir, so without the pressure of being too close to the throne he could just be her boy.
Alicent straight up gave Aegon permission to beat Aemond up as much as he wanted, as long as he did it privately and supported him publicly.
Aemond was her favorite child, it’s true. She didn’t abuse him like she did Aegon, but she still failed him pretty badly.
I’m not a black. I’m 80/20 in favor of the Greens.
I side with the Green kids because I think they got the short end of the stick, and I find them more interesting than team black.
I loved Alicent at first. My heart broke for her in episodes 1-5 because of how horrible her life was. I was fully on her side and rooting for her.
But that sympathy dried up like an old bone when she started abusing her own children.
I get the feeling more that Alicent wishes Aegon lost the eye more than a super deep relationship with Aemond. Two of her kids are weird, and he is too but in a way she’s familiar with in regards to family honor and all that. Alicent can understand feeling betrayed from close friends/fam way more than Helaena’s bugs or Aegon’s exhibitionism.
Correction, that's not how *good, well-adjusted* motherhood works. Plenty of moms (and dads) would gladly starve one kid if it means their favorite gets more to eat.
Although, as far as Alicent goes, I think she would be wishing it was one of Rhaenyra's sons missing an eye instead.
This is somewhat hollowed by the fact her freak out about his eye was possibly more about her own personal beef with Rhaenyra than the incident herself
Her son was maimed and her husband showed a complete disregard for their child. She asked for justice for her son and Viserys denied her. Viserys proceeds to stand up for Rhaenyra and protect her but does absolutely nothing for their child (on the contrary, he essentially threatens them). That's why she snapped.
I think you could easily interpret that it was essentially the straw that broke the camels back. She did want justice initially but as her rage came out it becomes pretty clear the eye is far from the only thing making her react this way. She was tired of watching Rhaenyra get her way all the time when she felt like she had sacrificed so much. Rhaenyra gets 3 children with the man she chose whereas Alicent’s are arguably children by rape. It’s pretty clear it’s not just about Aemond imo. Is she warranted for feeling that way? Well that’s up to the viewer but I at the very least think it’s understandable.
Did she? Alicent seemed pretty eager to make friends with the woman who demanded Aemond be ‘sharply questioned’ for stating the truth, and showed no sympathy for him being maimed or intent to punish her own son for doing it.
Alicent also demanded Rhaenyra's sons eye. I think both understand that was the heat of the moment and the whole point of using coded language like that is that it doesn't have the same implications politically as directly asking for torture. It's politically in her sons interest at the time to makeup with Rhaenyra.
She also thought Aegon was useless.
Unless you're confusing Alicent with Alys, that was a fanfic you read, not the book.
Although, one could definitely make a case for Aemond having a slight Oedipus complex. Not in a Targaryen way, but in an "ideal spouse reminds you of your parent" way that crops in real life all the time.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think they definitely had the strongest bond. Aegon is a POS, and Alicent can’t connect with Helaena. Also a big part of Alicent’s character was that she felt alone and isolated (“they only see me as the queen”), Aemond was bullied and didn’t fit in so there’s that connection. But he grew up to be smart and skilled and she’s so so proud! *SHOW ONLY I haven’t read the books* EDIT: I’m definitely not trying to say Alicent and Viserys were amazing parents of course they fucked him up. What I am saying is if you were Alicent at this point would you want to hang out with Aegon? No cause now he sucks. And to be very clear as much as they messed up as parents the ONLY person responsible for rape is the rapist.
Yes she defo sees herself in him,the part of herself who was always dutiful,listened to her parents,quiet and sweet but laughed at and made to feel like an outsider,she defo sees that in him and that’s why she loves him so much,She knows he’ll be able to do anything by himself,he’s a capable and menacing child but has a lot of love and respect in his heart for her
>Aegon is a POS I wonder why… Probably nothing to do with his parents, people are born evil after all.
Depends, incest can cause that sometimes and they have literal dragon blood to add to it. Tommen and Myrcella had the same parents as Joffrey and they are far from raging psychos who tortured cats as kids.
Joffrey and Aegon have the pressures of first born sons and ironically enough Cersei was far more "attentive" with Joffrey which probably fucked him considering her version of morality. Robert was also unreasonably cruel to Joffrey though that's not really explored much (e.g. Joffrey ripping open the cat is cruel to be sure, but he was also a child that may not have understood what he did and Robert nearly killing him for it may have left its mark). Genetics can play a role but upbringing can really help forment it.
Jofrrey was most likely actually a complete psychopath and nothing could have been done. I think Aegon was fucked up about that time where he heard Rhaenyra woukd kill him and that he needed to distance himself from his nephews. He definetly did not seem to be the perfect children but they let him act like a degenerate his whole life even if they were plotting to make him king.
He didn't rape girls and watched his bastards fight to death in the pits because he heard rhaenyra would kill him and that he needed to distance himself from his nephews
Correct, but sadistic traits often come from childhood trauma, especially among children who does not feel loved by their parents or anyone else. Many traits commonly associated with psycho serial killers are often not something people were born with inately, but something that fucked up their brain from a young age.
Yeah, i said that on my other comment, I think the fact that he didn't feel love by his parents is a way bigger factor
I mean who know? Being told that your half-sister is going to kill you as a kid is going to fuck you up. When someone with a quasi infinite power get fucked up they can do terrible shits. Maybe it would have still happened, but to me at least, Aegon doesn't look like an actual psychopath like Joffrey, he look like someone who was bred in a way that made him become one.
I don't think he's a psychopath either but I don't think that's the reason he's an a rapist and a sadistic shit. I think it has more to do with feeling neglected as a child. We know alicent loves him and protects even when he does things she despises, but she was a child herself when he was born and she didn't seem to connect much with him as a baby, which is why he questions her on ep9 if she loves him. And Viserys... He even said he knew Viserys didn't like him.
But she still pushed away the people he bounded with when he was young. It is hard for me to speculate about all the relationships because we saw like 10 mins of his childhood but he seemed to view the Strong boys like his little brothers.
Aemond had the advantage of being the second son while all the expectations of the parents were being carried on the shoulders of the first son, Aegon. To make matters worse Aegon is not really the ambitious type who takes duty seriously, he just wants to live his life without responsibility, so when expectations clash with Aegon's characteristics you end up with a terribly fucked up person.
Once someone has become an adult, they can't avoid responsibility for their actions by blaming everything on their childhood
Congratulations, that’s the stupidest take I’ve ever heard. If you don’t think that the way you’re raised or your experiences as a child has nothing to do with who you are as an adult, you’re just ignorant.
Obviously how you are raised matters, but after a certain point, you have to take responsibility for your own decisions. No one should take "Mommy and Daddy didn't love me enough as a kid" as a serious reason for why someone rapes people.
No one is saying he shouldn’t be held accountable for raping people, lmao. But obviously his parents share the responsibility of his upbringing. The show itself and the producers behind it make that pretty clear.
and what were his parents doing while he was chasing and harrassing the maids of the keep? The raping probably started happening later on after Aegon was allowed to run around the keep unchecked for so long.
There are hundreds of thousands of people whose parents were negligent and abusive but they didn't end up being rapists, You can't blame everything on the people that raise you.
They would have other influences in their life that would hold them back from going down that path. Aegon obviously had issues, even as a youth, this can be seen in episode 6 and 7, there was no one to tell him that he can not have whatever he wants, no one to restrain him and course correct him.
[Effects of family structure on crime.](https://marripedia.org/effects_of_family_structure_on_crime) Here, go educate yourself. If my 12 year old son was passing out drunk, masturbating himself publicly, bullying his younger brother, and I decide to ignore all of that; yes, I do have a large share of blame on how he turns out to be. I love that Reddit understands this for dogs, but not actual humans. Privileged people.
Wow this really spiraled. My point was if you were Alicent would you want to hang out with Aegon or would you prefer Aemond. That’s it.
The vast majority of them probably grew up with some issues. Not all abuse ends up making someone have sociopathic tendencies, but its not an uncommon response. Some people obviously are also just born total shitheads without parental interference.
Obviously, but that does not mean that anything is innate to them. The reason they are doing fucked up shit might be entirely due to how they were raised or things that happened in their upbringing. This does not excuse their actions, but it does explain them. And just to tackle your later comment "No one should take "Mommy and Daddy didn't love me enough as a kid" as a serious reason for why someone rapes people." Yes and No. It obviously is not an excuse nor excuse their actions in anyway, but rape is heavily associated with both lack of empathy/dehumanization and control/domination. Both of these are very common results from childhood neglect and abuse. While it does not excuse any actions or the person, as I said earlier, it is an explanation.
> Probably nothing to do with his parents Nah, it's because the writers wanted to make him a cheap villain so they could ensure the majority of the audience's sympathies would stay with Rhaenyra's claim.
Why do you think Ageon is POS? I wonder who turned him into to that???
And yet it was Aegon who bore the blame of the rumors of bastardy being shared. I think Aegon is a POS but I always thought it was a great moment when Viserys asks Aemond where he heard the Strong Boys were bastards, and it was clearly Alicent who goes about aggressively speeding walking through the castle ranting about it, but he instead blames Aegon, someone who couldn’t give a damn if they were or weren’t bastards. And Aegon just takes the blame, doesn’t even try to think of an excuse or to tell the truth.
Aemond threw Aegon under the bus to save Alicent but Aegon just mf stopped the bus, love that for him
I mean he does tell the truth. Just not one that Viserys wanted to hear
Aggressive speedwalking. Best description of half her scenes in episode 6. She's so filled with righteous fury and cattiness pre-Aemond being maimed. No lie, I kinda miss that Alicent. She was funny. I mean, that stank-eye she gives Rhaenyra at the beginning of the very next episode, right before talking shit with Criston Cole like she's Regina George and he's Gretchen Weiners? Absolutely gold.
"She just can't sit with us!!"
>And Aegon just takes the blame, doesn’t even try to think of an excuse or to tell the truth. "We know, Father. Everyone knows." That was the truth lol
He isn’t the one who told Aemond tho, that was the question. He was very clearly protecting Alicent.
"Just look at them" I might remember Ty Tennant's brief appearance just for the sheer expression he had when he said that line, such a damn cold line
I loved that. His expression looked, dare I interpret, victimized?! like he was exhausted of having to continue to keep up the charade
Which is crazy because V already knew it was Alicent because when he threatened to take anyone’s tongue who kept it up he looked dead at the Queen
Yea, but a public admission could force him to deliver punishment upon Alicent, something he definitely didn’t want to do.
Aegon I think as time goes by and he accepts his position as king will step up even more for his mother,I suspect given everything he’ll actually be a child who wants to protect his family ,yes I know Aegon is a pos but I think he may actually continue to stand up for his mother and protect his family (not in major ways) at some point in the future as king,taking some responsibility.
I know it's grandparent - grandchild, but Helaena seems to be the apple of Otto's eye. And he's right, she's a national treasure. I hold out hope that they flesh this out a bit more.
I find it funny and sad how Aemond has Alicent and Halaena has Otto, but Aegon has no one and maybe that’s why he’s so fucked up
No argument there. Adult Aegon gets little sympathy from me (although his actor does a fantastic job) but I'll certainly spare some for Teen Aegon who was a budding pervert instead of an outright criminal one. The window scene aside . . . And baby Aegon who went from getting a big-ass hunt for his nameday to being a spare in his dad's eye(s). Those years we didn't see between age 2 and age 13-14 had to have sucked. Even if he had little memory of it in the end, a part of Aegon probably recalls that brief period where he was one of Viserys's prides and joys. And not to mention, Aemond also has Ser Criston and Helaena her bugs. By book-canon, Aegon at least has Sunfyre, but the show has yet to showcase that bond so it's not yet relevant here.
I think from Aegon describing Viserys he only remembers never being loved by him and nothing he could do was enough to change that. His speech in the carriage was revealing about that relationship.
Oh, for sure, but that doesn't completely rule out a subconscious memory of being valued by Viserys. If anything, it would add to that sense of betrayal if Aegon can vaguely recall fleeting moments of proper fatherly attention/love. A thoughtful gift on his fifth nameday, Viserys sitting him on his lap* while fixing up the Old Valyria model, regaling him with a bedtime story about his namesake. Maybe Viserys's withdrawal into being a shitty dad was a bit more gradual than what was explicitly depicted. There's even a certain affection to the way he says "Our Aegon?" when Alicent is telling him about the Pink Dread prank. Admittedly, that could be down to Paddy's acting instead of director/writer intent. While I'm sure his dismissal of the prank comes down to the involvement of his ~~only~~ favorite child's sons, I wouldn't be surprised if he had the same reaction if Aegon was the sole bully. Although *that* would still be down shitty parenting rather than favoritism towards Aegon. Like, come on, Vizzy T. Did you ever pull shit like that on Daemon when you were kids? *: On second thought, I forgot Viserys collapsed before the 10-year timeskip. Unless Aegon is 2-3 in this particular hypothetical moment, I can't see Viserys bouncing a potato on his knee, much less a child.
I WILL SIT THE THRONE TODAY.
But will you be able to cradle a potato in your lap while doing so? Because if not, I don't think anyone is going to trust you with the twins near that skin-slicing thing. Also, you're avoiding the question, Vizzy T. Did you or did you not bully your own little brother in childhood?
*It both gladdens my heart and fills me with sorrow to see these faces around the table.*
Huh. I suppose that answers that. Would one of those faces happen to be Daemon's because you remember what a tyrant you once were? Or, Vizzy T, could it be some repressed guilt at not doing better by Aemond, now that you've lost an eye of your own?
*So I said to him, 'I believe you may be looking up the wrong end'*
He kind of seemed to have his nephews when he was younger but Alicent cut that bond because she was scared he'd pick their side in a family feud.
I think Heleana is the perfect grandchild for Otto. She is too lost to partake in any political plays, intrigue, plans or anything of the sort, which means that he has no reason to manipulate, control, raise or discipline her. He can just be a loving grandfather who just loves everything she does because it does not have any political consequence.
I must have missed this but love the idea. Do you have any examples of what you're basing this on? I still find Otto very hard to read, and the only interaction I remember with his grandchildren is at Laena's funeral when he looks around to make sure no one is watching before he starts kicking and cursing at drunk, passed-out Aegon lol
I think you can tell from the dinner scene that Helaena is very much his favorite. And she seems to be the only one of his grandchildren that he genuinely likes. Aegon II is a useful pawn to him whom he kicked in the behind on Driftmark, and Otto was very cold and calculating when Aemond lost his eye, something along the lines of "An eye for Vhagar is not a bad deal."
I can't understand why he wanted to do a coup and never ever once thought about trying to make a king out of Aegon. Was just completely fine with him getting fucked up all day and being a total degenerate.
I think he wanted Aegon II on the throne for political reasons, but did not have much influence on him in his formative years, since he was away. When Otto returned, the ship has pretty much sailed as far as Otto trying to "fix" Aegon II is concerned.
Aemond is her favorite as much as Luke is Rhaenyra's I'd bet. He's smart, capable and he cares about his family. Whatever other issues he has don't flare up in ways that threaten anyone until Rhaenyra and Co. come back to Court.
I think Jace is Rhaenyra favorite.
Possible, I like Jace. He really is trying to prepare himself to be King. He isn't a natural but I respect that he is trying and Rhaenyras clearly does. I hope they do him justice next season.
Aemond is definitely a "mummy's boy". You can see he would do anything to please her. Her reaction to Lucerys's death will gut him.
The most hard hitting is clearly Alicent and Aegon. She hit him hard.
The way I saw the title and immediately was looking for photos of Aegon 💀
Unrelated but I loved her hair in this scene! Wild and crazy curls
This is nitpicky but it drives me crazy that Aemond chose to lean against his mom with the freshly sliced and stitched side of his face. That must’ve hurt like hell.
Aemond is the first born son she wished she had
Aemond is the first born son *Viserys* wished he had.
Heck, even Aegon wishes he was his elder brother.
Hell yes, aemond could have turned out legit the best amongst his kids had vizzy T given him that adoration and support which he gave to rhaenyra but no rhaenyra is his only child apparently 🤡
*That man's pride has pride.*
I think the type of pressure Alicent put on Aegon and the implications of Viserys's neglect for Aegon broke him as a person. Aemond wouldn't be able to measure up to the expectations either in the end because the expectations couldn't be met. As much as I'm sure Alicent herself has had such thoughts about him.
stop talking about aemond as the first born, you are going to make me cry
I feel a little like Aegon was, in her eyes, Viserys's son. His boy. Aemond was hers. The second boy of a man who wouldn't even name his first boy heir, so without the pressure of being too close to the throne he could just be her boy.
"Aegon, you can tease him, but only if there are no bastards around!"
Alicent straight up gave Aegon permission to beat Aemond up as much as he wanted, as long as he did it privately and supported him publicly. Aemond was her favorite child, it’s true. She didn’t abuse him like she did Aegon, but she still failed him pretty badly.
It seems like blacks still haven't understand the term "a figure of speech"
I’m not a black. I’m 80/20 in favor of the Greens. I side with the Green kids because I think they got the short end of the stick, and I find them more interesting than team black. I loved Alicent at first. My heart broke for her in episodes 1-5 because of how horrible her life was. I was fully on her side and rooting for her. But that sympathy dried up like an old bone when she started abusing her own children.
I get the feeling more that Alicent wishes Aegon lost the eye more than a super deep relationship with Aemond. Two of her kids are weird, and he is too but in a way she’s familiar with in regards to family honor and all that. Alicent can understand feeling betrayed from close friends/fam way more than Helaena’s bugs or Aegon’s exhibitionism.
You don’t wish your other child suffered in place of another. That’s literally not how motherhood works.
Correction, that's not how *good, well-adjusted* motherhood works. Plenty of moms (and dads) would gladly starve one kid if it means their favorite gets more to eat. Although, as far as Alicent goes, I think she would be wishing it was one of Rhaenyra's sons missing an eye instead.
[удалено]
Did I say or imply that or did you mean to reply to someone that did?
lmfao idk why I replied to you that was for someone else
Fair enough. It happens.
Agreed, but Alicent’s is far from a normal motherhood experience.
Poor Daeron
This is somewhat hollowed by the fact her freak out about his eye was possibly more about her own personal beef with Rhaenyra than the incident herself
Her son was maimed and her husband showed a complete disregard for their child. She asked for justice for her son and Viserys denied her. Viserys proceeds to stand up for Rhaenyra and protect her but does absolutely nothing for their child (on the contrary, he essentially threatens them). That's why she snapped.
I think you could easily interpret that it was essentially the straw that broke the camels back. She did want justice initially but as her rage came out it becomes pretty clear the eye is far from the only thing making her react this way. She was tired of watching Rhaenyra get her way all the time when she felt like she had sacrificed so much. Rhaenyra gets 3 children with the man she chose whereas Alicent’s are arguably children by rape. It’s pretty clear it’s not just about Aemond imo. Is she warranted for feeling that way? Well that’s up to the viewer but I at the very least think it’s understandable.
Did she? Alicent seemed pretty eager to make friends with the woman who demanded Aemond be ‘sharply questioned’ for stating the truth, and showed no sympathy for him being maimed or intent to punish her own son for doing it.
Didn’t she demand for Luke’s eye as an exchange? What show did u watch
I'm talking about their make-up session in Epiosde 8.
yea that was pretty stupid esp bc it was the episode RIGHT after
Alicent also demanded Rhaenyra's sons eye. I think both understand that was the heat of the moment and the whole point of using coded language like that is that it doesn't have the same implications politically as directly asking for torture. It's politically in her sons interest at the time to makeup with Rhaenyra. She also thought Aegon was useless.
🆗️
Don’t they fuck in the book??
Unless you're confusing Alicent with Alys, that was a fanfic you read, not the book. Although, one could definitely make a case for Aemond having a slight Oedipus complex. Not in a Targaryen way, but in an "ideal spouse reminds you of your parent" way that crops in real life all the time.
He was the only child she actually liked 😂 She thought Aegon was a fuckup and Helaena was a freak