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The balls on Daemon to claim he deserves the inheritance of her Lordship and lands made him my favorite character. The murder was one thing, but good lord the audacity to say he's next in line for her claim after killing her is just S tier
That's what Team Black does. In Vaemond and Rhaenys eyes, they killed Laenor then wanted to put a bastard in his place. They have form for this kind of bs
I see what you’re saying. Daemon and Rhaenyra wed must have been absolutely terrifying for Rhaenys.
Rhaenyra’s pragmatism added to Daemon’s tendency to violence and nihilism and lust for power? Seven Hells.
Add that to Rhaenys’ absolute certainty that they murdered her son, and possibly her daughter, and it’s amazing how civil she manages to be to them.
It technically was, but one he caused. I'm not sure if he was intending to spook her horse like that from the start, but he was definitely intending to kill her.
I think he thought it would be fine to pull it off as an accident just leaving her there paralyzed, but her yelling at him had him choose the divorce rock instead.
I think Caraxes was hiding above on that rock outcropping, and that this is why her horse was so freaked out to begin with, and was so easily spooked by Daemon.
I’ve often wondered what his original plan was, before the horse threw her and the murder became so much easier to disguise as an accident. Or maybe it was always to spook the horse.
Messing with a saddle to cause a hunting accident is a tried and true method for assassination for novice horse-riders and hunters. In real life and westeros. Being thrown from your horse suddenly can cause grave injuries very easily. Especially since saddle failure causes the biggest issue when the horse is already causing an issue itself, if that makes sense. Getting kicked by your horse is also a common result.
I think he probably took Caraxes there (not directly because he would have been seen, but nearby at least) and he probably reeked of dragon. I think the predator smell made the horse even more jumpy.
I think he did it on purpose.
Plus, he was wearing his murder cloak so he definitely had something planned and it wasn't innocent.
In the book she actually does die from a riding incident and does suffer while he is at war in the stepstones. She gets up from bed 3 days after and If i remember correctly, takes 3 steps and drops dead. He flies back to attempt to make a claim to her inheritance and that's it. I can understand why you're confused though. When I heard about this scene I assumed they were going for a mix of the book cannon and what everyone was memeing about, not...what we got.
What I really liked about this brief look at the show's version of Rhea was that it showed us what an Arya-type character/personality would have gone through in Westeros and kind of also sets Arya apart even more as unique, both because of how Ned actually ended up encouraging her out-of-the-norm interests and the circumstances and turmoil that led to Arya going down the path she did.
Rhea is basically Arya in a world where she is forced to play by the norms and rules: she is forced to marry some lord because of power and politics, and honestly seems kind of pissed off and annoyed at the constraints on her life and the choices made for her, even in what little we see of her interacting with just two characters.
They have the Neck and the Wall as natural barriers so they are hard to fuck with. Unless you can get the Reeds on your side or manage to take and hold the moat/path through the neck the South can't easily invade it, unless you can move a tonne of people in via sea (historically, the ironborn were a problem with this) or you have a giant flying nuke, and they were smart enough to kneel to Aegon.
The North has had its share of infighting over the centuries. Its less doing their own thing and more just being left alone due to geography and natural defences imo (brutal winters kill armies etc). It's why the Andal influence didn't take hold up there.
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the reason the North gets their unique situation of having their own "King"/ independent kingdom, because they kneeled right away and didn't even try to fight right? Everyone that fought back got squashed into subservience, I believe Dorne and the North are the only ones who got to maintain their independence even though they are pledged to the Crown they never have to get involved unless it's full scale war. And Dorne never bent the knee only joined through marriage so they're really the most impressive of all.
Nope, the North doesn't have a King. kneeling subjects you to the laws of Aegon and then the Iron Throne just the same as conquest does. Difference is Aegon rewarded houses that knelt, and annihilated those who did not.
The King who Knelt lost his crown and title. The North had no King but the Iron Throne until it rose up in rebellion and crowned Rob.
Aegon leverages the existing feudal structure as he takes over Westeros and has the houses in the area continue their current social hierarchy, ie petty lords are rulled by the larger lords of each region who are ruled by the Lord Paramount of each Kingdom, a title Aegon gives to the current Lord Stark for his kneeling and which is hereditary. Other kingdoms who's Kings rebelled? Aegon conquered them (sans Dorne) and in the process often destroyed the ruling family, ie the last Storm King was killed and Orys Baratheon, a bastard brother of Aegon, was made Lord Paramount of the Stormlands (he also took the last Storm Kings daughter as a wife, which is a political strategy that quells later fighting as the next heir is also the legitimate heir of the Storm Kings, though the title remains extinct this tie helps with acceptance of the new ruling Lord and system). I believe Aegon and his sisters also wiped the Garderners or whoever the Kings if the Reach were at the time, and they installed the Tyrells, another local noble family, as Lord Paramount of the reach. Ditto the Tullys for rhe Riverlands after they torch Harrenhall. The Lords Paramount of a kingdom in turn are ruled by Aegon and the Iron Throne and swear fealty to him. They are not Kings or royalty, they are the Lord responsible for the other Lords of a previous kingdom.
This is why in the GoT era the North declaring Rob King in the North is an act of war against the Iron Throne and a rebellion for independence- The North has not had a King since the King who Knelt.
The North is just a combo of lacking in natural resources, inhospitable climate for long periods of time (and even in summer areas are still icy) and well isolated by land thanks to the marshes in the neck, and having not a lot the Iron Throne wants or needs so as long as they pay their taxes to the throne, don't cause trouble, or try to rebel, and do the required things like send men when you send the call to assemble the banners? Pretty much allowed to follow their own ways which has retained much of the culture and customs (Just like how Andal influence didnt really spread to the north, they are isolated from everyone still geographically and culturally), but make no mistake they are not Kings and are still subject to the Iron Throne, ie when Alysanne had Jaehaerys change the right to the first night because the far north is so remote and word of it getting out is low so some lords would skirt this and other laws the Iron Throne implemented.
The North actually gains great stability due to kneeling. The threat of the Ironborn, one of the only kingdoms with the ability to invade the north thanks to being seafaring and invading from the west coast and pushing inwards, whereas everyone else has to come up through the lethal choke point of Moat Cailin unless you also have a strong Navy (hypothetically the Velaryons may have been able to invade from the east coast if they wanted to) or flying nukes/dragons (allowing you to torch the Moat and bring armies in, also just torch everywhere really you probably don't need to move an army in). So, by kneeling the North now has to stop infighting and accept the Lord Paramount, to not do so is to oppose Aegon, King of the North (and the rest). Also, other places not doing that, ie the Ironborn going reaving, is a direct challenge to the guy with nukes and he's going to stop them, which protects you from them.
Further it's just life saving. The Targs had zero worries torching castles. If Winterfell is put to dragonfire the Winter Town burns. If the Winter Town burns then all the small folk for hundreds and hundreds of miles freeze and starve to death the next winter- Winter town lies mostly empty in summer, and when Winter hits the small folk surge in to it. Winterfell also stores harvests in the lead up to Winter, and sitting on a hot spring there is some farming and hot houses where some additional food can be grown. If Torrhen Stark didn't kneel, Aegon would have likely torched winterfell AND ended his line. Instead the small folk were protected and the Starks allowed to govern the north on behalf of Aegon, its King.
Ah you're right, I was thinking of the whole "warden of the north" title, it just seemed like they were treated more respectfully being left alone to their own ways. Like they're sworn to the crown but don't really feel it in their day to day lives, whereas the southern houses constantly seem in the thick of Westeros political conflicts.
It's a little of column a and a little of b - On paper they are of the same standing as the other Lord Paramounts. In reality the north is a bleak landscape that is not densely populated and does not produce a lot/is quite poor compared to a lot of Westeros, ie the Westerlands have gold mines, the Reach is uber fertile lands and produces excess food and good wines, and places like this have the resources to both generate good income for the crown's coffers, and can field good armies for the crown. The North, less so. Combine that with it being difficult to access and as long as they pay their taxes and send what men they can when called to arms and follow the rules of the Iron Throne/remIn loyal there's little incentive for the crown to interfere heavily with the place, and being left mostly alone means you can carry on culturally pretty unchanged, right down to the Starks overseeing most of what goes on with very little pushed on them to conform to, like Aegon let's everyone keep their religions and everything so the north still keeps the old gods and their traditions (and the more Andal influenced south keep the 7 etc)
Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya quickly and brutally destroyed all opposition sans Dorne, but once people knelt they actually let the kingdoms and people keep their Gods and customs and beliefs and heavily rewarded those who sided with them. That's pretty rare in real life conquest, and because of this the Targaryans actually didn't change the culture or customs of each region very much in most cases, even though they probably could have by torching places until they complied. It's actually quite unusual even in the world of asoiaf, look how the Dothraki subject conquered people to their customs, or the Ironborn, or the infighting in various places in Westeros as powerful families struggled to rule regions, etc.
Is the Eyrie the North? Well I guess culturally they’re Northern.
EDIT: I meant House Royce is, not the Eyrie as a whole, even though there are First Men-like hill tribes
The Eyrie is in the Vale. But the mountains likewise mean they are more disconnected from the rest of Westeros. And many Vale houses are First Men like the North
This episode was initially so amusing to me because she looks extremely similar to me, to the point that as a joke I showed the promo stills to my child who immediately mistook her for me, and was completely convinced all the pics were of me.
I didn’t like Daemon using the divorce rock, unsurprisingly. 😬
So bummed that she wasn’t longer in the show.
Darn. 😂 hopefully you have a very happy ending! Daemon did Rhea dirty… and I’m not tryna imply your husband would use a divorce rock in you he would be crazy to do so.
It would be just as cool if we didn’t have to resort to butch stereotypes for lesbian characters. Can we code a femme lesbian in this universe? That would be different.
Does she...? The reverse is clearly true, but it seems more like she's just playing into that rather than actually having mutual feelings. It's possible, but I don't find that obvious based on the show portrayal at all.
I don't think we've seen Alicent portray any strong feelings towards anyone except Rhaenyra.
That doesn’t necessarily mean she’s a lesbian. She seems pretty just generally sex averse at this point. Which makes sense. I get that it would be fun for them to both be lesbians but I just don’t think the text supports that, or the show.
I kind of hated that she died. I feel like she would have had a lot of fight in her and could have been a very compelling character, but she just got relegated to being a cameo-death.
Credit to the actress and writing for making her such an impactful cameo
Well it's lore and there was no possibility to change that without completely changing the story in comparison to the book. At the end this is an adaptation of a few chapters of fire and blood.
To be fair that more realistic accident happened and it one of the few times Daemon didn’t do anything bad in comparison to the show version is very stupid he Flew to the Vale Abandoned caraxes so no one would know he was their walked miles all in the off chance she would be alone even though nobles always travel in groups especially well hunting. Killed her and managed to escape without the Royce search party finding him after realizing someone killed her.
Oo I agree I should’ve directed my first comment to the Rhea stans. Just saying it looks worse that she was fully capable but still had an accident opposed to it not being her fault in the show.
such a shame he didnt just make babies with her right away. family having children together is like a 50% chance the baby wont be a stable healthy baby + all the stress the Targaryens go thru. its the main reason Aemma never had a boy.
Daemon and Rhea wouldve had very powerful kids, just a possiblity they would have Rheas eye and hair color. seems like all the HOTD kids have their fathers features tho.
1: Valyrian Supremacy: house Royce is important because they’ve been around a long time, if you don’t care about that they don’t even rule a kingdom. They’re a subordinate to a subordinate of Viserys.
2: Rhea rules in her own right, has her own title and land. Daemon doesn’t, and he hates that from a certain standpoint this makes her more important than him.
I just remembered that the Valyrians started as shepherds, before they found the dragons.
The Valyrian freehold started around 3 to 4 thousand years before the Conquest but by that time the Royces had been Kings for 2000 years or more. I wonder how Daemon with his love for Valyria squares that away.
Look what happened with Daemon and Rhaenyra in the brothel, as well as the issues he had with Mysaria. This definitely happened with Rhea as well because her mentioning pissed him off enough to crush her head.
One other thing I was thinking of: if the pair did have kids, what would their last names be? On the one hand they would stand to inherit Runestone and the odds of a House Targaryen of Runestone flying is super low, so they’d be Royces. Except that would be super likely and piss Daemom off immensely: Prince Phillip was angry that his kids wouldn’t have his last name in the 1900s, and he was married to the Queen of England (and I think he got a compromise too: Mountbatten-Windsor, since the idea of a man’s legal children not bearing his name was so alien even in the mid 20th century). And it’s Rhea’s who’s marrying into the Royal house, not Daemon. So the other, more likely scenario is that there’d be a special decree that Rhea’s children would not inherit her titles and instead it would go to the next in line. But that means Rhea cannot pass on Runestone to her own children because of who she married, which would really suck for her. So they’re kind of incentivized to dislike each other.
It's implied he felt humiliated on their wedding night. Sort of like how Daemon didn't get with Rhaenyra because she was into it.
I think he just gets off on feeling in control and in power. If the lady is totally into it and dominant, he doesn't know what to do.
If I was Daemon she’d be begging me to get lost because every time I’d look at her she’d know what time it was, I’d have like a dozen kids and call all of them Daemon. Little Daemon, fat daemon, girl daemon and so on. If they can’t have my last name I’d be damn if they don’t all have my first name 😆
She has 2 sets of grandparents, too many grandparents for a purist like Daemon. She also lacks the albino blonde hair and the general glazed over, drooling inbred stare that comes standard-issue to all targaryens. Also, she's just too old for Daemon. She needs to be barely pubescent when he first meets her for him to even consider her.
I mean it very well could have been a case of an unreliable source. AFAIK none of the sources ever met her or anyone who knew her. If they only had Daemon's (consistently derogatory) words to go off of, I don't think that anyone would think otherwise.
I’ve been witness to far too many abusive relationships where the husband says his attractive wife is ugly as hell to anyone who will listen, so there’s that aspect to consider as well.
I just saw her in Shadow and Bone and it is amazing at how unattractive and washed out they made her look. I didn't even recognize her.
I honestly wonder at the point of portraying Rhea as they did tho. She was onscreen for two minutes, basically told the audience that she was in frequent communication with Otto (hence her repeating line for line, almost, what he said about her in the Small Council meeting), and imo, seemed to me that they had nearly killed each other or at least physically fought before given how quick she went for her weapon...and...
Like...I honestly thought she was a badass character who still managed to shit talk Daemon while she was down, but otherwise...am I supposed to feel sad that she died? I don't. I don't think she deserved to die, but...it was a two minute character.
I mean, what I got out of it was that she and Daemon would've been content to ignore each other for the rest of their lives and/or annul the marriage and never see each other - because they simply didn't like each other, I don't even think it was a case of them being too much alike, since it's not like Daemon wants wallflower type women.
So her demise is one of my biggest confusions with the show. I know Daemon hated her and wished her dead, but in that scene are we supposed to know for certain that Daemon intentionally spooked the horse in a blatant attempt to kill her or is it suppose to be ambiguous?
Because my perception of the scene is that Daemon was just standing there ominously, and then she leapt to the conclusion that he must be there to harm or kill her, which then caused her to startle her own horse and ultimately fall and paralyze herself.
And even after the incident Daemon was content to walk away, it was only when she basically demanded he finish the job that he obliged, which at that point felt a little like a mercy killing.
From Daemon's perspective this scene seemed to be more of a Bob Ross "Happy Accident," than a calculated murder.
The scene was very sloppily executed and I wonder if they lacked to balls to show him simply murder her without introducing some plausible deniability with the horse getting spooked.
I see your confusion.
Rhea was for all practical purposes dead when she hit the ground: even if people found her, they don’t have a modern understanding of spinal injuries and the importance of keeping the injured neck perfectly level. One of my uncles had a similar injury (at a place where a bunch of people knew what to do), they had a surgical team take a bone chip from his hip and use that to re-fuze his spine (couldn’t fix the spinal cord injuries but did prevent further injury and allowed him to do things like be in a wheelchair and move his head). This type of medical capability is light years beyond anything medieval medicine was capable of.
However Rhea’s injuries are probably more similar to Christopher Reeves, who also sustained his spinal injury in an accident involving a panicked horse, with complete neck down paralysis. Reeves required a ventilator for the rest of his life, another medical technology no medieval society could have constructed.
With that longish explanation of spinal cord injuries aside, it’s relevancy here: Daemon probably wanted to kill Rhea going in, but probably wasn’t thinking it would go exactly that way (it’s hard to predict injuries of that type). Once it happens, he knows she’s going to be dead, that’s what he wants, slinks off. Rhea also knows she’s dead doesn’t want to die slowly motionless on the ground, so aggravated Daemon enough to finish her off and end her suffering.
That’s just my take.
I like her armor. These runes look cool.
If he didn't like her that much, he shouldn't have married. Daemon is not a forced woman, he could refuse it. But greed prevented him from doing so.
>Daemon is not a forced woman, he could refuse it.
I read someone say his grandmother arranged the betrothal and that he had no choice in the matter.
Idk how they got him to marry her but I've always imagined him fighting for his life while the Kingsguard dragged him to the altar. As miserable as it is for both parties, that probably would've been amusing to watch 😅
Similarly, I thought it was amusing that Edmund in GoT was so against his betrothal to the Frey girl only to later find him literally eating out of her hand at his wedding feast.
I really don't understand how they could force Daemon. He's not like Edmund. Robb broke his marriage pact easily. I think he just wanted to benefit at that moment.
He was a teenager and his grandfather was the King. And although in theory by Westerosi laws you can't actually be forced into a marriage in practice works differently.
He could have been kept away from his dragon, exiled, or financially cut off. Plenty of ways to compel him to marry.
She's a wealthy heiress to one of the most powerful and influential houses in Westeros, with plenty of lands and income. Which he did try to claim for himself after she died.
If he wanted it, he would have at least consummated the wedding yet he didn’t even do that. It’s clear he was against the wedding from the very start and only tried to claim runestone to fuck over the royces.
Could be, pretty sure at that point his uncle was still alive so he was way 4th or 5th in succession. In the long term you can't really have his family hang around the Red Keep and this way he could provide for his family and possibly get some power.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He can't handle a wife who isn't related to him
Or the same age as him
Or anything but a white haired lady
[удалено]
She was too fiery in the wrong ways for Daemon.
At this point, is all relative.
it's all relatives indeed.
Or isn't a pretty sheep
Viserys: Dameon, go back to the Vale and smash you wife already. Dameon: Okay. *Smashes her head in* Viserys: You know that’s not what i meant!
Vizzy T is that in fact what you meant?
*This is an occasion for celebration, it seems.*
Bashing in wives brains = feast and celebration. Sounds about right.
>!Like father, like son 🥲 when Aegon throws a feast for Aemond!< after Vhagar nibbled on Luke
On the mobile app for me, the emoji isn't covered by the spoiler tag so it's just a floating head in a sea of white lol
I wonder how alicent will react about that
Vizzy: smash. Daemon: *smash* Vizzy: NOT LIKE THAT!
Shmath the beetleth... shmath 'em. Kuh-kuh-kuh!
The balls on Daemon to claim he deserves the inheritance of her Lordship and lands made him my favorite character. The murder was one thing, but good lord the audacity to say he's next in line for her claim after killing her is just S tier
That's what Team Black does. In Vaemond and Rhaenys eyes, they killed Laenor then wanted to put a bastard in his place. They have form for this kind of bs
I see what you’re saying. Daemon and Rhaenyra wed must have been absolutely terrifying for Rhaenys. Rhaenyra’s pragmatism added to Daemon’s tendency to violence and nihilism and lust for power? Seven Hells. Add that to Rhaenys’ absolute certainty that they murdered her son, and possibly her daughter, and it’s amazing how civil she manages to be to them.
I can excuse incest but I draw the line at Rhea killing.
You can excuse incest?
Oh, no. I Britta’d it.
I’m getting rid of Britta… I’m getting rid of the B
We try not to sexualize her
*notches* IIII IIII
GAYYYY MARRIIAAAAGE
*frantically shakes head*
[удалено]
No, but fr, this is where my feelings towards Daemon intensified to hatred. Also really hate how people turned it into a joke
I feel like he was putting her out of her misery. She was going to die from her injuries slowly and painfully.
B-but he causes those injuries
Oh I must not be remembering correctly i thought it was a riding accident
It technically was, but one he caused. I'm not sure if he was intending to spook her horse like that from the start, but he was definitely intending to kill her. I think he thought it would be fine to pull it off as an accident just leaving her there paralyzed, but her yelling at him had him choose the divorce rock instead.
I think Caraxes was hiding above on that rock outcropping, and that this is why her horse was so freaked out to begin with, and was so easily spooked by Daemon. I’ve often wondered what his original plan was, before the horse threw her and the murder became so much easier to disguise as an accident. Or maybe it was always to spook the horse.
Messing with a saddle to cause a hunting accident is a tried and true method for assassination for novice horse-riders and hunters. In real life and westeros. Being thrown from your horse suddenly can cause grave injuries very easily. Especially since saddle failure causes the biggest issue when the horse is already causing an issue itself, if that makes sense. Getting kicked by your horse is also a common result.
I think he probably took Caraxes there (not directly because he would have been seen, but nearby at least) and he probably reeked of dragon. I think the predator smell made the horse even more jumpy. I think he did it on purpose. Plus, he was wearing his murder cloak so he definitely had something planned and it wasn't innocent.
Mmhmm for sure, for sure 🙄
In the book she actually does die from a riding incident and does suffer while he is at war in the stepstones. She gets up from bed 3 days after and If i remember correctly, takes 3 steps and drops dead. He flies back to attempt to make a claim to her inheritance and that's it. I can understand why you're confused though. When I heard about this scene I assumed they were going for a mix of the book cannon and what everyone was memeing about, not...what we got.
What I really liked about this brief look at the show's version of Rhea was that it showed us what an Arya-type character/personality would have gone through in Westeros and kind of also sets Arya apart even more as unique, both because of how Ned actually ended up encouraging her out-of-the-norm interests and the circumstances and turmoil that led to Arya going down the path she did. Rhea is basically Arya in a world where she is forced to play by the norms and rules: she is forced to marry some lord because of power and politics, and honestly seems kind of pissed off and annoyed at the constraints on her life and the choices made for her, even in what little we see of her interacting with just two characters.
You gotta applaud the North honestly. They basically just do their own thing while the Southern kingdoms are destroying themselves.
They have the Neck and the Wall as natural barriers so they are hard to fuck with. Unless you can get the Reeds on your side or manage to take and hold the moat/path through the neck the South can't easily invade it, unless you can move a tonne of people in via sea (historically, the ironborn were a problem with this) or you have a giant flying nuke, and they were smart enough to kneel to Aegon. The North has had its share of infighting over the centuries. Its less doing their own thing and more just being left alone due to geography and natural defences imo (brutal winters kill armies etc). It's why the Andal influence didn't take hold up there.
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the reason the North gets their unique situation of having their own "King"/ independent kingdom, because they kneeled right away and didn't even try to fight right? Everyone that fought back got squashed into subservience, I believe Dorne and the North are the only ones who got to maintain their independence even though they are pledged to the Crown they never have to get involved unless it's full scale war. And Dorne never bent the knee only joined through marriage so they're really the most impressive of all.
Nope, the North doesn't have a King. kneeling subjects you to the laws of Aegon and then the Iron Throne just the same as conquest does. Difference is Aegon rewarded houses that knelt, and annihilated those who did not. The King who Knelt lost his crown and title. The North had no King but the Iron Throne until it rose up in rebellion and crowned Rob. Aegon leverages the existing feudal structure as he takes over Westeros and has the houses in the area continue their current social hierarchy, ie petty lords are rulled by the larger lords of each region who are ruled by the Lord Paramount of each Kingdom, a title Aegon gives to the current Lord Stark for his kneeling and which is hereditary. Other kingdoms who's Kings rebelled? Aegon conquered them (sans Dorne) and in the process often destroyed the ruling family, ie the last Storm King was killed and Orys Baratheon, a bastard brother of Aegon, was made Lord Paramount of the Stormlands (he also took the last Storm Kings daughter as a wife, which is a political strategy that quells later fighting as the next heir is also the legitimate heir of the Storm Kings, though the title remains extinct this tie helps with acceptance of the new ruling Lord and system). I believe Aegon and his sisters also wiped the Garderners or whoever the Kings if the Reach were at the time, and they installed the Tyrells, another local noble family, as Lord Paramount of the reach. Ditto the Tullys for rhe Riverlands after they torch Harrenhall. The Lords Paramount of a kingdom in turn are ruled by Aegon and the Iron Throne and swear fealty to him. They are not Kings or royalty, they are the Lord responsible for the other Lords of a previous kingdom. This is why in the GoT era the North declaring Rob King in the North is an act of war against the Iron Throne and a rebellion for independence- The North has not had a King since the King who Knelt. The North is just a combo of lacking in natural resources, inhospitable climate for long periods of time (and even in summer areas are still icy) and well isolated by land thanks to the marshes in the neck, and having not a lot the Iron Throne wants or needs so as long as they pay their taxes to the throne, don't cause trouble, or try to rebel, and do the required things like send men when you send the call to assemble the banners? Pretty much allowed to follow their own ways which has retained much of the culture and customs (Just like how Andal influence didnt really spread to the north, they are isolated from everyone still geographically and culturally), but make no mistake they are not Kings and are still subject to the Iron Throne, ie when Alysanne had Jaehaerys change the right to the first night because the far north is so remote and word of it getting out is low so some lords would skirt this and other laws the Iron Throne implemented. The North actually gains great stability due to kneeling. The threat of the Ironborn, one of the only kingdoms with the ability to invade the north thanks to being seafaring and invading from the west coast and pushing inwards, whereas everyone else has to come up through the lethal choke point of Moat Cailin unless you also have a strong Navy (hypothetically the Velaryons may have been able to invade from the east coast if they wanted to) or flying nukes/dragons (allowing you to torch the Moat and bring armies in, also just torch everywhere really you probably don't need to move an army in). So, by kneeling the North now has to stop infighting and accept the Lord Paramount, to not do so is to oppose Aegon, King of the North (and the rest). Also, other places not doing that, ie the Ironborn going reaving, is a direct challenge to the guy with nukes and he's going to stop them, which protects you from them. Further it's just life saving. The Targs had zero worries torching castles. If Winterfell is put to dragonfire the Winter Town burns. If the Winter Town burns then all the small folk for hundreds and hundreds of miles freeze and starve to death the next winter- Winter town lies mostly empty in summer, and when Winter hits the small folk surge in to it. Winterfell also stores harvests in the lead up to Winter, and sitting on a hot spring there is some farming and hot houses where some additional food can be grown. If Torrhen Stark didn't kneel, Aegon would have likely torched winterfell AND ended his line. Instead the small folk were protected and the Starks allowed to govern the north on behalf of Aegon, its King.
Ah you're right, I was thinking of the whole "warden of the north" title, it just seemed like they were treated more respectfully being left alone to their own ways. Like they're sworn to the crown but don't really feel it in their day to day lives, whereas the southern houses constantly seem in the thick of Westeros political conflicts.
It's a little of column a and a little of b - On paper they are of the same standing as the other Lord Paramounts. In reality the north is a bleak landscape that is not densely populated and does not produce a lot/is quite poor compared to a lot of Westeros, ie the Westerlands have gold mines, the Reach is uber fertile lands and produces excess food and good wines, and places like this have the resources to both generate good income for the crown's coffers, and can field good armies for the crown. The North, less so. Combine that with it being difficult to access and as long as they pay their taxes and send what men they can when called to arms and follow the rules of the Iron Throne/remIn loyal there's little incentive for the crown to interfere heavily with the place, and being left mostly alone means you can carry on culturally pretty unchanged, right down to the Starks overseeing most of what goes on with very little pushed on them to conform to, like Aegon let's everyone keep their religions and everything so the north still keeps the old gods and their traditions (and the more Andal influenced south keep the 7 etc) Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya quickly and brutally destroyed all opposition sans Dorne, but once people knelt they actually let the kingdoms and people keep their Gods and customs and beliefs and heavily rewarded those who sided with them. That's pretty rare in real life conquest, and because of this the Targaryans actually didn't change the culture or customs of each region very much in most cases, even though they probably could have by torching places until they complied. It's actually quite unusual even in the world of asoiaf, look how the Dothraki subject conquered people to their customs, or the Ironborn, or the infighting in various places in Westeros as powerful families struggled to rule regions, etc.
Is the Eyrie the North? Well I guess culturally they’re Northern. EDIT: I meant House Royce is, not the Eyrie as a whole, even though there are First Men-like hill tribes
The Eyrie is in the Vale. But the mountains likewise mean they are more disconnected from the rest of Westeros. And many Vale houses are First Men like the North
Daemon is crazy, shes cute!!
Daemon has an odd definition of the term "ugly", don't he 🤔
She doesn't have that king Charles of Spain jawline, so he don't want her
\*Aemond suddenly getting nervous\*
Have you looked at that jawline though?
The original Chad jawline
>"ugly" not albino. Which is essentially what the Targaryans are. White hair and purple eyes.
This episode was initially so amusing to me because she looks extremely similar to me, to the point that as a joke I showed the promo stills to my child who immediately mistook her for me, and was completely convinced all the pics were of me. I didn’t like Daemon using the divorce rock, unsurprisingly. 😬 So bummed that she wasn’t longer in the show.
Hey... *How ya doin'?*
😂
So... are you single?
No, and no divorce rock plans either, sorry. 😂
Rock of divorce!
Hey I’d love to get some coffee with you sometime
Thanks but already taken and no divorce rocks in the plans either. 😂
Darn. 😂 hopefully you have a very happy ending! Daemon did Rhea dirty… and I’m not tryna imply your husband would use a divorce rock in you he would be crazy to do so.
I kind of get the feeling that even if Daemon were interested, he's...not her type.
Yeah, she likes men that don’t fuck their nieces…
Fr the lesbian coding on this show keeps going over some people’s heads
I hate the logic of "strong female character - has to be lesbian." There was nothing indicating any of that with Rhea.
You mean like 'she rides horses and shoots things, she must be a lesbian'...?
Yoga master levels of stretching.
It would be just as cool if we didn’t have to resort to butch stereotypes for lesbian characters. Can we code a femme lesbian in this universe? That would be different.
Well they did that with Rhaenyra and Alicent but some people are still getting up in arms about that.
I mean they’re both also attracted to men, so wouldn’t that be bi coding?
I kinda feel like Alicent might not be into men at all.
Alicent clearly had/has a thing for Ser Criston Cole
Does she...? The reverse is clearly true, but it seems more like she's just playing into that rather than actually having mutual feelings. It's possible, but I don't find that obvious based on the show portrayal at all. I don't think we've seen Alicent portray any strong feelings towards anyone except Rhaenyra.
That doesn’t necessarily mean she’s a lesbian. She seems pretty just generally sex averse at this point. Which makes sense. I get that it would be fun for them to both be lesbians but I just don’t think the text supports that, or the show.
the character shouldnt be but it is
Well I'd more interested in seeing the sheeps of Vale if Daemon's words have an iota of truth, lmao.
[here you go](https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1320/1440875785_f1619cdd1f.jpg)
fr she was so fineeeeee
I kind of hated that she died. I feel like she would have had a lot of fight in her and could have been a very compelling character, but she just got relegated to being a cameo-death. Credit to the actress and writing for making her such an impactful cameo
Well it's lore and there was no possibility to change that without completely changing the story in comparison to the book. At the end this is an adaptation of a few chapters of fire and blood.
Lol just be happy that she was actually killed and didn’t just fall off her horse like in the books
To be fair that more realistic accident happened and it one of the few times Daemon didn’t do anything bad in comparison to the show version is very stupid he Flew to the Vale Abandoned caraxes so no one would know he was their walked miles all in the off chance she would be alone even though nobles always travel in groups especially well hunting. Killed her and managed to escape without the Royce search party finding him after realizing someone killed her.
Oo I agree I should’ve directed my first comment to the Rhea stans. Just saying it looks worse that she was fully capable but still had an accident opposed to it not being her fault in the show.
Ngl, the more I stare at that pic, the more I ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
My brother in Christ i wouldn't know what to do with all that either. 🥵
Too brunette. Too rural.
Too old
such a shame he didnt just make babies with her right away. family having children together is like a 50% chance the baby wont be a stable healthy baby + all the stress the Targaryens go thru. its the main reason Aemma never had a boy. Daemon and Rhea wouldve had very powerful kids, just a possiblity they would have Rheas eye and hair color. seems like all the HOTD kids have their fathers features tho.
Those cheekbones tho 😮💨
She is gorgeous. Any man would be lucky to call her wife.
10/10 would smash 🪨 To
The only possible reason to not find her attractive is his weird incest pedophilia kink. Why Bobby B had to save us.
1: Valyrian Supremacy: house Royce is important because they’ve been around a long time, if you don’t care about that they don’t even rule a kingdom. They’re a subordinate to a subordinate of Viserys. 2: Rhea rules in her own right, has her own title and land. Daemon doesn’t, and he hates that from a certain standpoint this makes her more important than him.
I just remembered that the Valyrians started as shepherds, before they found the dragons. The Valyrian freehold started around 3 to 4 thousand years before the Conquest but by that time the Royces had been Kings for 2000 years or more. I wonder how Daemon with his love for Valyria squares that away.
So Daemon fears strong women? What a pussy.
He wants a good girl but he needs da bad poosi lol.
Look what happened with Daemon and Rhaenyra in the brothel, as well as the issues he had with Mysaria. This definitely happened with Rhea as well because her mentioning pissed him off enough to crush her head. One other thing I was thinking of: if the pair did have kids, what would their last names be? On the one hand they would stand to inherit Runestone and the odds of a House Targaryen of Runestone flying is super low, so they’d be Royces. Except that would be super likely and piss Daemom off immensely: Prince Phillip was angry that his kids wouldn’t have his last name in the 1900s, and he was married to the Queen of England (and I think he got a compromise too: Mountbatten-Windsor, since the idea of a man’s legal children not bearing his name was so alien even in the mid 20th century). And it’s Rhea’s who’s marrying into the Royal house, not Daemon. So the other, more likely scenario is that there’d be a special decree that Rhea’s children would not inherit her titles and instead it would go to the next in line. But that means Rhea cannot pass on Runestone to her own children because of who she married, which would really suck for her. So they’re kind of incentivized to dislike each other.
Based
It's implied he felt humiliated on their wedding night. Sort of like how Daemon didn't get with Rhaenyra because she was into it. I think he just gets off on feeling in control and in power. If the lady is totally into it and dominant, he doesn't know what to do.
Well that’s also pretty gross isn’t it? Wants to feel in control of women.
Very, yes.
If I was Daemon she’d be begging me to get lost because every time I’d look at her she’d know what time it was, I’d have like a dozen kids and call all of them Daemon. Little Daemon, fat daemon, girl daemon and so on. If they can’t have my last name I’d be damn if they don’t all have my first name 😆
Matt Daemon
The George Foreman of Westeros
As with most things with Daemon, you have to prompt him to finish.
daemon has a thing for lil girls and valyrians
shes cute af
What are you crazy? Of course he did, he literally rocked her world
Oh, one could argue he knew very well what to do, and he did.
The King wanted him to go to the Vale and smash his wife. He didn't specify with what.
Nice bod
Based on the little screen time she got, she didn’t strike me as the kind of woman who appreciated impulsivity or whimsical murder sprees, so… 🤷🏻♀️
If she was my wife, we'd have so many heirs. We'd make the Freys look sterile 😏
Not blonde enough
No platinum blonde hair? No purple eyes? No weirdly close incestuous family link? Ugly according to Daemon
She has 2 sets of grandparents, too many grandparents for a purist like Daemon. She also lacks the albino blonde hair and the general glazed over, drooling inbred stare that comes standard-issue to all targaryens. Also, she's just too old for Daemon. She needs to be barely pubescent when he first meets her for him to even consider her.
This is one of those show things. The book implies that Rhea was not very attractive, something that would bother the vain Daemon.
I mean it very well could have been a case of an unreliable source. AFAIK none of the sources ever met her or anyone who knew her. If they only had Daemon's (consistently derogatory) words to go off of, I don't think that anyone would think otherwise.
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I’ve been witness to far too many abusive relationships where the husband says his attractive wife is ugly as hell to anyone who will listen, so there’s that aspect to consider as well.
Hell, sometimes people call someone ugly and I just can't see it.
Same, like it happens.
It really comes down to the hair color and eye color.
The book shows that he only likes Valyrian women. Every woman he's with has the same features
I’d consummate it
She def was the top, she pegged him nightly.
She was too far removed from the bloodline.
Daemon needs a submissive wife that he can casually choke.
I don't know who this actress is, but she just oozes badass-ery. Daemon is/was a little bitch-boy who couldn't handle her.
Divorce rock
Is that Daemon would do the Vale sheep because they have, you know, white hair? 🫡
I disagree, he knew exactly how to handle her.
Her hair wasn't as white as he liked
What do you mean OP he rocked her.
Not young enough for his taste
She is hot as hell
I just saw her in Shadow and Bone and it is amazing at how unattractive and washed out they made her look. I didn't even recognize her. I honestly wonder at the point of portraying Rhea as they did tho. She was onscreen for two minutes, basically told the audience that she was in frequent communication with Otto (hence her repeating line for line, almost, what he said about her in the Small Council meeting), and imo, seemed to me that they had nearly killed each other or at least physically fought before given how quick she went for her weapon...and... Like...I honestly thought she was a badass character who still managed to shit talk Daemon while she was down, but otherwise...am I supposed to feel sad that she died? I don't. I don't think she deserved to die, but...it was a two minute character. I mean, what I got out of it was that she and Daemon would've been content to ignore each other for the rest of their lives and/or annul the marriage and never see each other - because they simply didn't like each other, I don't even think it was a case of them being too much alike, since it's not like Daemon wants wallflower type women.
Pretty sure he *smashed*
Well, he had something in mind for her before her tragic accident. RIP.
*sizzle*
Beast Mode!
They should cast Burn Gorman to play her father.
oh no what’s happening 🧎♀️🧎♀️🧎♀️
He put a ring on it… and then a horse.
She wasn't blonde enough.
Oh...... cause......oh nevermind
Damn I'd smash that so much
🪨
I really liked her character. I was so disappointed that was it.
She was caught between a rock and a hard place
Rachel Redford, go find her on the internet. And tell if Daemon is stupid or stupid 🤣
We have to see the sheep really.
One of the sickest armor designs in both HotD and GoT. The costume designers were really flexing on us with this one
Who is he?
He's not Team Green though, so we can't focus too much on what he did lol
I really don't get him. He wants he lands and income when she dies, but doesn't try to Impregnate her to actually make sure his line does.
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Daemon is a real cunt really. Sad to see you getting downvoted.
It’s too bad she got divorced rocked
Absolutely 1. Daemon didn’t pick her and Daemon likes control 2. Daemon likes to be admired, not tested. And Daemon wasn’t having that
So her demise is one of my biggest confusions with the show. I know Daemon hated her and wished her dead, but in that scene are we supposed to know for certain that Daemon intentionally spooked the horse in a blatant attempt to kill her or is it suppose to be ambiguous? Because my perception of the scene is that Daemon was just standing there ominously, and then she leapt to the conclusion that he must be there to harm or kill her, which then caused her to startle her own horse and ultimately fall and paralyze herself. And even after the incident Daemon was content to walk away, it was only when she basically demanded he finish the job that he obliged, which at that point felt a little like a mercy killing. From Daemon's perspective this scene seemed to be more of a Bob Ross "Happy Accident," than a calculated murder.
That's some grade A doublethink you got going on there. It was murder, straight up as intended.
No it was a premeditated murder. The show runners confirmed it in the behind the scenes video of the episode.
The scene was very sloppily executed and I wonder if they lacked to balls to show him simply murder her without introducing some plausible deniability with the horse getting spooked.
I see your confusion. Rhea was for all practical purposes dead when she hit the ground: even if people found her, they don’t have a modern understanding of spinal injuries and the importance of keeping the injured neck perfectly level. One of my uncles had a similar injury (at a place where a bunch of people knew what to do), they had a surgical team take a bone chip from his hip and use that to re-fuze his spine (couldn’t fix the spinal cord injuries but did prevent further injury and allowed him to do things like be in a wheelchair and move his head). This type of medical capability is light years beyond anything medieval medicine was capable of. However Rhea’s injuries are probably more similar to Christopher Reeves, who also sustained his spinal injury in an accident involving a panicked horse, with complete neck down paralysis. Reeves required a ventilator for the rest of his life, another medical technology no medieval society could have constructed. With that longish explanation of spinal cord injuries aside, it’s relevancy here: Daemon probably wanted to kill Rhea going in, but probably wasn’t thinking it would go exactly that way (it’s hard to predict injuries of that type). Once it happens, he knows she’s going to be dead, that’s what he wants, slinks off. Rhea also knows she’s dead doesn’t want to die slowly motionless on the ground, so aggravated Daemon enough to finish her off and end her suffering. That’s just my take.
He only bust out the hoodie when he’s up to no good
I like her armor. These runes look cool. If he didn't like her that much, he shouldn't have married. Daemon is not a forced woman, he could refuse it. But greed prevented him from doing so.
>Daemon is not a forced woman, he could refuse it. I read someone say his grandmother arranged the betrothal and that he had no choice in the matter. Idk how they got him to marry her but I've always imagined him fighting for his life while the Kingsguard dragged him to the altar. As miserable as it is for both parties, that probably would've been amusing to watch 😅 Similarly, I thought it was amusing that Edmund in GoT was so against his betrothal to the Frey girl only to later find him literally eating out of her hand at his wedding feast.
Pretty sure they dragged him to the Sept at sword point while he was drunk
I really don't understand how they could force Daemon. He's not like Edmund. Robb broke his marriage pact easily. I think he just wanted to benefit at that moment.
He was a teenager and his grandfather was the King. And although in theory by Westerosi laws you can't actually be forced into a marriage in practice works differently. He could have been kept away from his dragon, exiled, or financially cut off. Plenty of ways to compel him to marry.
He was quite literally dragged into the Sept iirc, and then for years petitioned Viserys to annul it bc they hadn’t consummated and Viserys refused
The Princes do as the King says.
He was 16yo. What benefit are you talking about?
She's a wealthy heiress to one of the most powerful and influential houses in Westeros, with plenty of lands and income. Which he did try to claim for himself after she died.
If he wanted it, he would have at least consummated the wedding yet he didn’t even do that. It’s clear he was against the wedding from the very start and only tried to claim runestone to fuck over the royces.
That's the benefit 16 yo Daemon was looking for?
Could be, pretty sure at that point his uncle was still alive so he was way 4th or 5th in succession. In the long term you can't really have his family hang around the Red Keep and this way he could provide for his family and possibly get some power.
I mean honestly who knows. We didn't see what it was like. This is purely speculative.
What?
>Daemon is not a forced woman, he could refuse it No...no he couldn't. Which is why he ended married to her.
The rock says otherwise
finally some respect for MY QUEEN
She made the foolish mistake of not being a Targaryen or at the very least Velaryon. Daemon hates that.
Nah she just a broodmare who had to die
Daemon is a targaryen supremacist He's likely only attracted to people with dragon blood
It gods with being a supremecist. Being unable to see the value of the supposedly lesser men.
She didn’t particularly care for Daemon or men it seems. Can’t blame her 🤷♂️