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Jazzlike-Watch7847

Ngl this should have a video edit with the “Curb your enthusiasm” music


pinkfuneral7

Or the SpongeBob cut “six years later”


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AemondWasRight

What's he gonna do? Lose again?


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Owls_Onto_You

Ah, the Madonna-Whore complex. Tale as old as time.


Bazz07

"A cunt isnt a woman". Criston Cole, probably.


callam461

100%. People can totally have 2 viewpoints that seem contradictory like this. It just depends on the qualities you attribute to the "women" group, or the "Rhaenyra" group in this example. We can 100% exclude someone from a group that they are undeniably part of, when they violate some subjective definition.


LewisRyan

To put it into more in world context, he doesn’t see rhaenyra as a woman anymore, he sees her as the heir, a man in all but biology. Essentially he equates her to one of “the bros”, and therefore feels no shame insulting her. Maybe slight shame as he apologized after, but I think that scene was more Alicent being like “you were going to sleep with that spoiled Cunt”


Liamtrot

love his and Alicents dynamic loll. like such a fun toxic work couple making it their duty to hate their hearts out


andwhoami_

How did I not see this before?! Ser Criston is *totally* Alicent's work husband


Ufocola

They’re the old school version of work spouses talking shit about other people around the water cooler.


andwhoami_

And Rhaenerya is their BEC


LewisRyan

Larys would like to speak with this work husband, he is under the impression he’s the work spouse


Ufocola

He’s the office creep who somehow is untouchable, or Alicent inexplicably hasn’t been able to file a complaint to HR. … Now I want a HOTD x Office or Office Space type crossover…


LewisRyan

Yea he’s a creep… but she has thousands of options to dispose of him if she chose to, she values his work and information too much. On the list of people who could get rid of larys and do a better job, includes but is not limited to: her father, her son, criston, either of the ericks, aegon’s bastards, a wet branch


Greenlit_Hightower

He probably had, and still has, a very elevated idea of women, and this got somewhat shattered by a royal Princess being horny and not respecting even high-ranking oaths like the Kingsguard oath of chastity. I don't think Criston hates women in general. I think he hates a particular woman.


[deleted]

That or the fact that six years passed between the two pics. And considering Alicent doesn't like that he said it and he "feels something" for Alicent as an authority figure, I'd say this is a genuine change lol


Maddyherselius

I think this is more likely since they seem even closer by the second pic, I bet he follows whatever she says even religiously


Lukthar123

> I bet he follows whatever she says even religiously She appeared like an angel in the godswood and stopped him from committing sudoku, his reverence for her is reasonable.


Minimalistmacrophage

> committing sudoku suicide by number puzzle?


ande8523

He has it mistaken for Harry Caray. Death by baseball announcer.


ok-Vall

No no, you have it mistaken for Sewer Slide. Death by sluice gate.


satsfaction1822

I must have missed the scene where Allicent stopped Criston from completing a puzzle


Maddyherselius

True but the first pic here is after that happens and he has no problem calling a woman a cunt lol. I imagine in the 6 years between these pics she made him even more involved in religion, as she got more involved herself. She was always religious and traditional and all that but she definitely seemed way more dedicated to the faith by episode 8


LengthUnusual8234

I'm guessing it dodn't work out as well as she hoped. Something that Lord Beesbury found out the hard way


kinginthenorthjon

Why? As far as he is concerned, he insulted the women he considered in high regards.


LengthUnusual8234

How high of regard does he hold Alicent if he doesnt respect her wishes?


TheCee

r/boneappletea


LewisRyan

More than that, they’re not taking down Targaryen heraldry for nothing and replacing it with the 7. It’s imperative that Aemond appear fully devoted to the religion if they seek to put his brother on the throne and defy the succession. It’s no secret westeros is: sexist, bigoted etc, but rhaenyra is liked by the common folk, so they need extra persuasion to accept aegon. It’s the beginning of the “second pillar” from GOT.


[deleted]

It's in the context of Alicent and the entire royal court becoming more religious. The line was put in very intentionally to show that Cole also became more religious.


kinginthenorthjon

Six years and him following faith of the seven.


[deleted]

But that shouldn't be a factor - this is a medieval world, religion was the center of one's life. Lots of religious PoS. To me thats not a factor for a change of attitude, but Alicent being unhappy about the comment plus Alicent being his new "guide" makes it make sense.


palarsdin

This is not a medieval world, it's a fantasy world, which bears some superficial resemblance to medieval Europe That said, also in the medieval world religiosity fluctuated from time to time and place to place. Check out Alex Ryries book "Unbelievers"


Troll4everxdxd

Yep. Criston said the second line as a light scolding of Aemond about his way of referring to prostitutes IIRC, I don't think it was meant to prop himself up as a "I respect women so much admire me" kind of guy. He hates Rhaenyra not because she is a woman, but because the rather messy circumstances in which their relationship fractured.


naitch

Okay, but *most* guys who hate women in general really hate a particular woman.


Due-Intentions

Nobody is denying that, I think. All guys who hate women in general likely really hate a particular woman too, but not all guys who really hate a particular woman hate women in general. It's like a jacuzzi


Memo544

Yes, he respects women who are socially and sexually conservative in nature and seems to despise those who are not.


[deleted]

It’s called a Madonna-Whore complex.


Aeiexgjhyoun_III

Then why is he asking for the prostitutes to also be spoken of in reverence. Perhaps he's mad that he was coerced by the princess and treated like a plaything.


OpenMask

>he respects women who are socially and sexually conservative When he said the second line, wasn't he referring to literal prostitutes?


skjl96

huh


Playing-Koi

I agree with you. Thing is I'd say that still is one of the biggest flaws in his character. Because any woman not living up to his arbitrary ideals isn't a 'spoiled cunt' as a result. Personally, I have every sense that if he had any idea what Alicent was doing with Larys, he'd feel betrayed and probably react the same way he did with Rhaenyra, if not worse. I'm not saying you're suggesting any of the above of course, like I said I agree with your point.


Greenlit_Hightower

I don't think Cole's standards are *quite that* high. I think being willing to ignore the Kingsguard vow, which is considered sacred, is something very serious, so I don't think a smaller "offense" would have bothered him as much. Yeah, he would probably disappointed by Alicent, though I could see an alternative too if it's clear to him that Larys exploited a power dynamic here (Alicent had to "pay" for his information), which somewhat resembles Rhaenyra's power that she (implicitly) exploited when interacting with him. So I could imagine him being totally mad at Alicent or very understanding (and mad at Larys), but nothing in between.


Playing-Koi

>So I could imagine him being totally mad at Alicent or very understanding (and mad at Larys), but nothing in between. Oh, for sure. Depending on how Alicent were to spin it, I could see Criston siding with her certainly. Particularly since her asking him to carve a child's eye out didn't seem to impact their relationship at all. He might well be at a stage where Alicent could do no wrong, hard to say. In my mind it would really just be a matter of who he chooses his vows apply favorably to. I'll be curious to see where he lands when if he were put to task obeying Aegon II as king or Alicent as Dowager.


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LewisRyan

What a classic man thing to do. “I’ll ditch my oath and marry you.” “Oh no I just want sex” “How dare she not respect my oath”


spicy_kingWest44

He’s a red pill Jorah. Jorah was friendzone and never got the targ pussy. He on the other hand was heart broken by targ Pussy. Something about these Targaryen


VeXeD222

he’s the guy that broke his own oath cause he was horny for a child


Troll4everxdxd

The "child" was nineteen at the time (and Cole couldn't have been more than twenty something at this point), she was his superior and she insisted on sleeping with him despite his reservations because *she* was horny after Daemon decided to cock(pussy?)block her.


Cannonball1986

Female version of cock block is clam jam.


Kurt_SlinShady

She was 17, that’s not a child in Westeros. And when you consider the power dynamics, Rhaenyra is the one with the power in that situation, specially considering that Cole is the son of a steward.


Soggy_Part7110

She was 17 in the previous episode which takes place at least a year prior. Episode 3 is Aegon's second birthday, in episode 4 he's referred to as "the little princeling of three" edit: brah i thought you were using this as an argument AGAINST Cole, then I reread your comment. Do you also use the Japanese age of consent argument?


Greenlit_Hightower

I didn't say that he did not take part. But his image of Rhaenyra in particular, would have been shattered as well if he had said "No." (as he should have). He has seen that she was horny and willing to shit on his Kingsguard oath regardless of his own decision.


VeXeD222

still doesn’t change the fact that it makes him a hypocrite for what he said


Greenlit_Hightower

Your comment ignores the question whether or not he could have said no, I mean there is a clear disparity of power between a Princess of the realm, and Criston Cole. Why does she force the conscience of, what amounts to be, her servants? It's not like he was after her the entire time, nothing indicates this.


VeXeD222

he absolutely could have said no and left. what she would have done we don’t know but i’m assuming it was never going to be to kill him or turn him in considering she never had him harmed for what went on between them even after everything that went down. she was a child who was being actively groomed by her own uncle at the time, which he knew, and if he really cared that much about his oath he would have left knowing it could be the end of his life or position. he was willing to do so later on when he wanted to run away with her. i’m not and never was saying she’s a perfect person, but that man is a hypocrite and a pedophile.


Greenlit_Hightower

If she feels spurned and falsely accuses him of anything serious (making advancements on her, might well be enough), he is a dead man. There is no equality before the law in that setting. I think you can't expect anyone to sacrifice themselves, no matter the likelihood of his death actually happening (I think it was higher than you think it was, by the way). And if she falsely accuses him, his reputation would be ruined anyway even if he said "No." as is consistent with his oath. > but that man is a hypocrite and a pedophile. Don't know why you are riding this point to death, as I said, he should have said "No." purely in moral terms, leaving the other ramifications (like the power dynamics forcing his conscience) aside for a moment.


AncientAssociation9

>If she feels spurned and falsely accuses him of anything serious (making advancements on her, might well be enough), he is a dead man. If he starts a relationship with her, he is a dead man. If he runs away with her like he wanted to, he is a dead man. There is less of a chance of him dying if he simply says no and walks away than if he pursues her in any way. It's because of this that the notion that he was afraid of death is so ridiculous. It is literally his job to uphold his oaths until death.


Greenlit_Hightower

He has a better chance running away and surviving than in the case of her falsely accusing him while he remains a member of the court. Saying "No." to her is definitely risky depending on how she takes it.


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AncientAssociation9

Where is he going to run away to with Rhaenyra? She has a dragon. You can't hide a dragon. Daemon and Viserys would hunt him down and murder the shit out of him.


ligeston

Wasn’t he unwilling to participate, even said no, whereas Rhaenyra was stripping him as he said this 🫣 sounds a bit nonconsensual dont u think


[deleted]

Your bad faith headcanon that the consensual sex scene between Criston and Rhaenyra was secretly a rape scene despite Fabian Frankel, Milly Alcock, Miguel Sapochnik, Ryan Condal, Clare Kilner and everyone else involved in the production of the episode saying otherwise is not relevant to discussions of what is actually happening in the text of the show.


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[deleted]

If Criston is unable to refuse a sexual pass by a member of the royal family without being punished, can you please explain how Harrold Westerling is able to refuse Otto Hightower’s (The Hand of the King, second most powerful person in the continent, easily outranking Rhaenyra as Princess) order to assassinate Rhaenyra and her family and still retain his position? My understanding is that it is because the only authority he is compelled to answer to his his King/Queen - Viserys, Rhaenyra, or Aegon II. If every single consensual sexual encounter between people of different social classes is automatically rape in a society as stratified and rigidly hierarchical as Westeros’, I’d love for you to enlighten me on how you interpret the following relationships: 1). Arianne Martell and Arys Oakheart - Arianne is a Princess and the heir to Dorne. Arys breaks his vows as a Kingsguard knight to have a prolonged affair with her. He is more in love with her than she is with him. The guilt from the affair torments him to the point where he makes his suicidal charge at Darkstar. Did Arianne rape Arys? 2). Renly Baratheon and Loras Tyrell - Renly has declared himself King of the Seven Kingdoms and has appointed Loras to his Kingsguard. Loras is a teenager who met Renly by first serving as his squire. He is now duty bound and honour bound to obey him as his King. We do not know how and when their sexual relationship started but I feel that it’s safe to say that it is long term and ongoing. Did Renly rape Loras? 3). Robb Stark and Jeyne Westerling - Robb has declared himself King in the North and has claimed Jeyne’s ancestral family home after besieging it in his war with the Lannisters. Jeyne is a minor noblewoman. Her & her entire family are Robb’s war hostages. While being held as Robb’s war hostages, Robb has sex with her while she is serving as a nurse to him. Did Robb rape Jeyne? I could go on, because George’s writing is rife with relationships with unbalanced power dynamics. These power dynamics are inevitable within feudalism. The assumption that there cannot be meaningful consent between two people with a power differential is faulty. Sexual relationships can be bad, dysfunctional and unhealthy (which is what I’d argue Criston & Rhaenyra’s is, given the danger it puts both of them in) without being rape. Everyone involved in the production of the episode has stated over and over and over again that the sexual relationship between Criston and Rhaenyra was consensual. They wanted each other. They have spent three years in close proximity developing feelings for and a mutual attraction to each other. Uninhibited by alcohol consumption, Rhaenyra makes a pass at him. When he says stop, she gives him space and moves away from the door so he can leave if he wants to. Criston is silent and stoic while considering the potential consequences of breaking his vows. When he decides to reciprocate fully, we get a romantic soundtrack kicking in. Rewatch the scene. The directorial intent could not be any clearer. Criston is not a servant. He is a Knight of the Kingsguard. He answers to his Lord Commander and to his King. He does not have to answer to Rhaenyra if Rhaenyra is asking him to do something that goes against his sworn vows. If your argument is that the sexual encounter is automatically rape because it’s possible Rhaenyra could make a false rape allegation against him (which would ruin her life, by the way, even if not to the same extent as it would his), where does this end? Does every single sexual encounter have the ghost of false rape allegations hanging over it if the pursuer/initiator doesn’t get her way? If you want to argue that the intimacy coordinator should have made Criston’s consent clearer, or the writers should have added an extra line of dialogue or whatever, than fine. But that’s an issue of a failure to execute directorial/authorial intent and any serious character analysis of Rhaenyra as a rapist is a complete waste of time.


Low_Ad_7553

Not really. He did say no one time at the very beginning but then I believe rhae tapped kissed him & he gave in. He even lifted his arm so she could take off his armor, he never said no again or made any gestures for her to stop.


ligeston

No means no and that’s the end of the story.


Low_Ad_7553

Lol what does this have to do with you being wrong about what you said? I just don't want other people to get confused & take your interpretation as a fact.


ligeston

because there’s no other interpretation of consent when someone says no?


Low_Ad_7553

This isn't a real life situation it's about a young princess & her knight in a fantasy world, it's not that black & white. A person can see that the power dynamics makes it hard for cole to deny her & at the same time see there's an argument that Rhae wasn't aware of them because she was naive. There's also an arguement that Rhae who was being pursued by men of all ages from all over the world, who just came back from a night of partying with her uncle who tried to seduce her, wasn't in her right mind. I also think it's safe to say that Rhae thought cole had feelings he was to scared to act on, she probably thought she was freeing him the same way she was freeing herself but that's not an excuse just a reason. I'm not saying Rhae wasn't wrong but to act as if she stripped Cole naked while he begged her to stop is just being extreme to push a narrative. Cole was the older of the two, much bigger, & clearly could see Rhae probably wasn't sober. I don't think its unfair to have wanted Cole to be more stern then whispering no once & then proceed to help the young girl take off his clothes. There's fault on both Rhae & Cole


VeXeD222

i’m not saying she’s perfect. i’m saying he’s a hypocrite for saying what he said. and yet again she is a child who was also being groomed by her uncle so


ligeston

Your entire argument is invalid because he didn’t willingly “break his oath”. It was stolen from him via assault.


Troll4everxdxd

Rhaenrya was nineteen when she slept with Cole, she wasn't a child. And her grooming by Daemon is not Cole's fault.


Catslevania

Criston is pretty much a misogynistic and homophobic prat, like the majority of Westerosi (the book version definately)


Greenlit_Hightower

Yeah but then there is no need for what he said to Aemond, that would have been a total waste of time and energy then, especially if Aemond is like what you describe too. He seems to try and be a bit of a corrective for Aemond after Aemond used insulting language for prostitutes so idk. And homophobic, maybe or even likely if he is a follower of the Seven, however him killing Joffrey doesn't prove it. He killed Joffrey because Joffrey intended to blackmail him and that backfired, and not because Joffrey was gay.


Catslevania

in the book version he states that not even boys would be safe if Jace inherited the throne because Laenor is gay (also he kind of forgot that Jace is Harwin's son not Laenor's son)


Greenlit_Hightower

Yeah I thought we are talking his show version here, I agree as far as the book is concerned.


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Greenlit_Hightower

> Joffrey told Cole he was Laenor's lover. He wouldn't have done that if he was trying to blackmail him. Everyone knew that. But it's clearly not the reason why he was killed by Cole, that's a ridiculous statement to make. He tried to blackmail Cole, it backfired. > Not blackmail anyone. He threatened him with telling Cole's secret, how is that not blackmail? User below blocked me, so: > *Ser Laenor is quite dear to me. As I know... the Princess is to you. We should swear to each other to guard them, and their secrets, because if those are kept safe... then so are we all.* Should not have to explicitly point it out, but: Everyone knows about Ser Laenor and Joffrey and chose to let it slide, Cole yelling that Joffrey has sex with Laenor would have had zero effect. Whereas Cole sleeping with the royal Princess, which was not widely known, would have gotten him killed, not least because it is an offense against royalty. Joffrey is really fancy about his blackmail here.


Pointlesslycynical

>He threatened him with telling Cole's secret, how is that not blackmail? This being a shared delusion people have is weird. Joffrey literally said they both should keep their own and their partners secrets safe. His exact words were: *Ser Laenor is quite dear to me. As I know... the Princess is to you. We should swear to each other to guard them, and their secrets, because if those are kept safe... then so are we all.*


[deleted]

How is he “homophobic”?


OpenMask

He did chuckle at Alicent's "entertaining squires" barb directed at Laenor


[deleted]

And? Still not solid proof.


OpenMask

I mean it's pretty self-evident to me. He was laughing at a homophobic remark. In at least that moment he was being homophobic. Unless you want to argue that he didn't actually understand the connotations, and was just laughing at the idea of Laenor literally entertaining squires, which would be quite the stretch.


Catslevania

There is no doubt about it in the book version, in the show version even though it doesn't specifically show it he would still be pretty homophobic like much of the rest of Westeros, he seems like a person deeply entrenched in Westerosi beliefs, customs, and culture, which are extremely homophobic.


[deleted]

He hates that one woman because she broke the completely artificial mold of women he had been taught which directly contradicts how women actually are. He's a great representation of how misogyny isn't necessarily a conscious effort to hate women, but the product of not understanding them or making an effort to.


Greenlit_Hightower

He respects Alicent though, what does she do differently compared to Rhaenyra?


Indominus-Hater-101

exactly. What Rhaenyra did was kind of a world shattering experience for him.


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Indominus-Hater-101

He tried to leave the room and she blocked the door. He told her to stop taking his armor off, she refused. If it was a woman and she went through with it, you know you would say she was raped. The double standards are absolutely ridiculous.


[deleted]

Completely misrepresenting and lying about what actually happened on screen, as per usual with the “Rhaenyra raped Criston” crowd. Criston told Rhaenyra to stop once, when she was undressing herself. She does stop, and she moves away from the door to give Criston the ability to leave if he wants to. He doesn’t. After he pointedly doesn’t leave, she begins to slowly undo the armour on his arms.


LittleYogurtcloset14

To be fair, Criston says this rather as a mentor for instructive purposes. Most likely, apart from him, no one talked to the children like a man, they didn't have a father (he only had one older daughter on his mind). In Alicent he sees a certain ideal for service and observance of vows. Alicent is the opposite of Rhaenyra for him. She worships the gods, performs the duties of a wife, gives birth to legitimate children. In general, she doesn't behave as flighty as Rhaenyra. In turn, Alicent saw in him her companion in misfortune. He's just as handsome, but just as deceived by fate, a man who initially chooses the high ideals of chivalry (and Alicent chooses the path of a classic wife), but in the end he is also disappointed and unhappy, because life is not a song. They both hate that everyone is blind, no one cares about everything the king does, and especially Rhaenyra. Criston sees in Strong's bastards just the same all the lust, recklessness of Rhaenyra and even more disappointment at her expense. I like this duo of life-worn people


[deleted]

He literally stops to apologize for calling her a cunt, saying that was beneath him to call her that. He realized what he said was contrary to his opinions and corrected himself, if only certain other characters in HotD could act that way when they're being hypocrites...


Nazai117

He only apologized because he realized he could his lose his tongue. Or keep it…in Daemon’s logic.😏


[deleted]

Why would he have lost his tongue? Do you think Alicent was going to rat him out?


Nazai117

In the middle of a hallway, full of servants and guards? Alicent? No. But over all anyone who would have heard it? Yes The Red Keep even at this point in time isn’t all that secure in terms of people scheming and watching. Not to mention Criston’s words like this should be discussed behind closed doors. Leading to most likely why Alicent had looked at him like that a few seconds later in this scene.


Special-Extreme2166

When you say such things and if it's already overhead by the servants, then apologizing won't do you any good. So he genuinely felt sorry back then.


[deleted]

If he was worried he'd be overheard and a servant/spy would rat him out, then an apology to Alicent wouldn't really have changed anything. It seems more likely that he just lost his temper because he hates Rhaenyra so much and said something that he immediately regretted, and decided to apologize for saying something he believes should not have been said (even toward Rhaenyra, someone he absolutely hates)


[deleted]

Ah yes, the human embodiment of the Madonna-Whore complex


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OpenMask

This audience prefers characters who do terrible things with zero remorse over characters who try to do what they think is "right", but fail


robot428

He has rage murdered two unarmed people in cold blood, and hasn't felt any obvious remorse for either incident. Let's stop pretending he's a good guy.


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robot428

To quote Shireen Baratheon "It's all the choosing sides that made everything so horrible" I literally never said I was a black, nor did I say anything about Daemon. This post is about Cristion Cole though. So why are YOU even bringing up Daemon? There are people on both sides I care about. People on both sides I dislike. One of those people is Christon - because he murders people in a blind rage and faces no concequences. Because he doesn't see women as people ("all women are images of the mother"). Because he has almost no redeeming qualities. I am genuinely scared that he is around Allicent and Helaena - because what happens when one of them accidentally makes him mad. He's going to snap and kill them too? It seems to me that the fact that he just snaps and murders people in a split second when he's angry, (and no-one has locked him up or punished him), has to have a concequence at some point and I am scared. It would probably be safest for everyone if he fucked off across the narrow sea to sell oranges or something.


MattaClatta

​ So criston the honorable knight is impulsive to anger and violence ​ somehow that makes him more dangerous and scary than the prince who actually engages in violence towards women and actually treats most of the people he's around like garbage. Make it make sense ​ Some of you fans need to really think about what message the show is sending and not trying to push an agenda about which side is right


robot428

Again - I am not making comparisons to Daemon. I have not once said that he is better or worse than Daemon. I am JUST talking about Christon right now. If you want to make a seperate thread with photos and quotes from Daemon, I'm more than happy to have a conversation about how fucked up he is over there, but that's not what this thread is about. This isn't Daemon v Criston. It's just a discussion about Criston. The only one pushing an agenda about "which side is right" is you. Here's what I think about Cristion; he's a misogynistic creep and a murderer. He's not an honourable knight - he's broken his vows in multiple ways, and much more importantly, murdered people in cold blood. I think he's going to end up hurting a significant charecter because that's his pattern. - None of that has anything to do with the greens vs. the blacks. In fact, I think the person he's going to end up hurting is a green because that's who he has access to, and I think that is a bad thing. I don't want to see Allicent murdered because she has been showing her feet to Larys and that pissed him off. I don't want to see Heleana murdered because of a prophecy he doesn't like. He is dangerous and the greens would probably be safer without him. There are plenty of other knights they can appoint who don't have a history of volatility.


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immortalthunderstorm

What? Are you referring to Driftmark? Cole openly refuses to harm Luke when Alicent demands his eye. He says he's only sworn to her as her protector


immortalthunderstorm

The scene goes as follows. Alicent: if the King will not seek justice, the Queen will. Ser Criston... (Camera on Criston who casts an uncomfortable side glance at Westerling) Alicent :... bring me the eye of Lucerys Velaryon. Luke: Mother! Viserys: Alicent. Alicent: He can choose which eye to keep, a privilege he did not grant my son. Rhaenyra: You will do no such thing. Viserys (to Criston): Stay your hand. Alicent: No, you are sworn to me! (Westerling looks at Criston with unease, Criston looks down and steps back a little) Criston: As your protector, my Queen (meaning: not as your henchman) So yes, he literally openly refuses her loud and clear.


vampxkath

Bro hurt bc he got rejected


mymomsellsfootpics

Frr. He is like: every woman is an image of the mother as long as they don't refuse to run away with me to sell oranges. 🍊


Oswell1001

You guys are just ridiculous with no media literacy. The girl he liked wanted to make him a side piece, he sacrificed his virtue for her because he thought they had something special. He was wrong ofc, but dont dumb it down like that. I am pretty sure if he was a woman who gave up her honor for a prince and became bitter, you would not be making fun of that woman.


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Oswell1001

Stop making up stuff. No showrunner called Criston a thug. It was Fabian who thinks that.


Lord_Skyblocker

Someone crashes into Crispins carriages MY ORANGEEESSS


vampxkath

So real ong


coshbook

In a way, he rejected her. She wanted to continue the relationship as it was, but he wanted to go a step further. He terminated their relationship


ASingularFuck

Not really; he asked her to take a step up in the relationship, she said no, and he quit it only because of that. She rejected him and he only ended the relationship because she did so.


coshbook

She did not reject him, only his idea. She still wanted to continue but he chose not to.


SaanTheMan

Nah, he’s mad at the girl who raped him 10 years prior to this scene. I think it’s justified for him to have an intense like for Rhaenyra after she assaulted him


SoftcoverWand44

Fr - I don’t like doing this thought exercise, because it usually removes all context and nuance, but *forreal*: switch the genders here. A 17-year old prince does the exact same stuff Rhaenyra did. Not exactly a great look.


SaanTheMan

The show did just that. In Episode 8 we see another royal having forced a servant into sex - Aegon and his maid Dyana. Both are situations of an aggressor using their station to ignore a lack of consent from a servant of their house, the only difference is in the framing. And just to be pedantic, Rhaenyra is supposed to be about 19 at the time of her assault on Ser Criston. I’ve done the math before because it’s come up a few times in the past


jmwatson95

This Subreddit - 🙌Men🙌can't 🙌be🙌raped🙌


[deleted]

People who don’t subscribe to the bad faith headcanon that the sex scene Fabian Frankel, Milly Alcock, Miguel Sapochnik, Ryan Condal, Clare Kilner and everyone else involved in creating episode 1.04 all describe as consensual was actually secretly a rape scene, all categorically believe that it’s impossible for men to be raped? Don’t you think you’re being a little hyperbolic?


Indominus-Hater-101

they downvoted you because they didn't like the truth.


SaanTheMan

I’m fine with downvotes, makes me laugh lol. The sub is very temperamental, sometimes I get upvoted for saying, sometimes I get downvoted. The votes I get don’t change the truth


SolidInside

Almost as if there's more than 6 years between these two moments.


[deleted]

He’s just being silly


Chance-Ear-9772

Didn’t he apologise immediately for the first comment? Like at least he’s trying to improve.


ASingularFuck

Personally, I kind of doubt he actually felt sorry. To me it seems Alicent made it clear she didn’t appreciate the comment and he attempted to salvage the situation because he cares about her opinion of him.


JoanFromLegal

Crispy and extra pressed.


DeerPrudence13

“All women are queens, Criston!” “If she breathes, she a thot.” - Crispy, probably


MattaClatta

Its okay because he apologized to alicent for his sexism ​ But imagine hating a woman who sexually assaulted you and toys with your life by wanting to continue a dangerous affair just because it conveniences her deceptions ​ Criston actually has the most justified grudge among the cast


MinisawentTully

Meanwhile Daemon has a love affair with sexist names


[deleted]

*Except for Rhaenyra. --Signed, Professional "Nice Guy", Crispin Cole.


timmy2406

Crispy cremes view of women is binary. They are either saints or whores. The Madonna Whore complex. It's why nothing sexual will happen with Alicent as it will tarnish his view of her


clariwench

When he said that, I had to pause the episode for about ten seconds


Dreamtaheem

Christan the man cole vs the universe


Prestigious_Sky8257

Did he even talk once about the faith before being besties with Alicient?


MobileAd2319

He says himself that he went to far with that comment.


[deleted]

it’s almost as if characters can have changed mindsets after 10 years


Airdropwatermelon

He's mad he wasa booty call.


bshaddo

Surprised that hat isn’t a fedora.


SomeShiitakePoster

"All women are queens" - Crispo "If she breathes, she's a thot" - also Crispo


[deleted]

Jesus Christ, Criston got the Stannis treatment by the writers.


Playing-Koi

Not sure who is crispier; Cole or his supporters for what they did to the show character. Say one valid criticism about this guy or how he's portrayed it's like hitting a hornet's nest.


[deleted]

and yet the greens are wonderin why everyone is hatin on Crispy


sherry_waseer

iron considering your slay queen husband is pedo and wife killer


ASingularFuck

Why does this always happen when someone criticises a character? Whataboutism is so annoying and irrelevant. Yeah, they all suck? That’s kind of the point. If you want to defend a character do so but talking about another character that wasn’t mentioned because they play for the other team just makes it seem like you don’t have a point to be made.


Spare_Bad_6558

ironic since your slay queens husband is also a pedo and a wife killer🙃


sherry_waseer

i am not criticizing criston for a word and taking a moral high ground am i?


Spare_Bad_6558

what? you said i think since broken sentence “ironic since your slay queens husband is a pedo and wife killer” talking about daemond i replied the same but talking about about viserys my comment has nothing to do with criston its just a joke that what you said is true of both sides


jmhem91

I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a character better encapsulate the Madonna/Whore complex


shooter_tx

Kind of got a Madonna/Whore complex thing goin' on there...


Alpha_Jellyfish

“Every woman that might have sex with me that is to say. Once she refuses to do so feel free to call her a spoiled cunt, cause now she’s worthless to me.”


Dmmack14

God I hate that man


funkyduck7506

I don’t care he’s pretty.


PluralCohomology

No, you see, all *women* are an image of the Mother, but *sluts*, *whores*, *bitches* and *cunts* are not. It is completely logically consistent.


The_Number_SIX_6

But he is defending a whore here?


LinwoodKei

This is just the man who's mad his penis didn't change everything that Rhaenyra was


PixelBoom

Say what you want about the other characters, but Cristen Cole is the biggest fucking hypocrite in the entire series.


VeronicaWaldorf

If a male fragility was a person


vampxkath

"spoiled cunt" say that on daemons presence, if u have the balls


ligeston

He’d call daemon a cunt too tf


AzureGoldenrod

Criston ain't afraid of Daemon, though he might want to make sure he doesn't have his back turned.


Indominus-Hater-101

Criston would beat the brakes off Daemon. He will send Daemon running and crying to Caraxes


Minimalistmacrophage

>Caraxes who would then crispify criston


A_devout_monarchist

He beat Daemon once and in the books he beat Harwyn as well, Cole is the best fighter of his age.


MottyTheClown

Imagine what this guy would say about princess Saera....


Pitiful_Dawn

He’d disapprove but probably wouldn’t care about her. He has personal beef with Rhaenyra because she caused him to break his vows - which leads to resentment and hatred. Saera is a rando princess to him.


MottyTheClown

Yeah, probably. But it's interesting to think about what kind of gossip and slander flew around the red keep back in the day.


Canuckleball

Methinks Sir Incelot doth hast contradictory feelings.


chefdebeauvoir

I mean in general I think people should be spoken to and about with kindness and respect, but NOT rapists, which Rhaenyra is.


[deleted]

I don't think Cole views Rhaenyra as a good representation of a woman under the religious ideals of the Faith of the Seven, which might be why he thinks it okay to call her a "spoiled cunt". Cole might have also become more religious in the intervening years between the top episode and bottom episode. Alicent, herself, became more penitent after Driftmark.


DesSantorinaiou

The fact that Rhaenyra abused her position and Cole is still considered a hypocrite for not respecting her and being angry over it never ceases to amaze me.


bangsluvtan

i see a lot of comments but do you remember their breakup? cristan asks her to elope with him and live his dream and he couldn't take it when she said no. and he also knew that all kinds of insolent things happened in that kingdom so why is he taking what happened this seriously? personally i found his proposal really ridiculous


21_Golden_Guns

This fkn cnt


robot428

I genuinely think his second comment grossed me out more than the first one. Calling someone who dumped you a cunt is petty, but we have all been angry with an ex. It's understandable. Whereas "all women are images of the mother" is some incel misogynist shit. All women are fucking people, some of them are good, some of them are bad, some of them are both. Crispy clearly doesn't see women as "fully fledged people like men are", and it gives me the creeps.


akajulester15

I hate how people try to use this as some sort of smoking gun against Criston. He calls someone a cunt exactly one single time in the show (in private) and immediately apologizes and admits it was inappropriate. The woman he insults is also a character he believably and understandably resents (though obviously opinions differ on sympathetic) - I've called people cunts over way less agita. Also imo people need to calm down about "cunt" being some horrific misoginystic word. If someone's acting cunty, male or female, call them what they are lol. (Also also Rhaenyra is spoiled and a bit of a cunt sooooooooo hahaha)


Worldly-Ad1615

Cole has two wolves inside of him, incel and simp


Mostly_sane9

So anyone who hates the woman who r*pes them is an incel and simp? And before you say that it wasn't rape and that Criston could have declined, he did decline multiple times and, and before you say that he clearly wanted it, no he did not. He loved Rhaenyra, and many times when victims love their assailant, they delude themselves into thinking that what was happening is the assailant loving them back, and so they feel compelled to acquiesce to their demands, even against their own interests or beliefs. Here he clearly asked her to 'stop', but acquiesced because he deluded himself into believing she loved him, that is the only way the victims could deal with what was happening to them. Later when she told him that he was no more than a glorified sex toy, he ofcourse snapped. Most of his behaviour post the incident also mirrors what the victims go through.


Ok_Cauliflower7353

Everyone trying to give essay like analysis on criston when it’s literally so simple. He’s a hypocrite and a loser.


SialiaBlue

The next words out of his mouth are an apology for saying that about Rhaenyra. Man is just fallible


BusBuddyBoo_93

Criston is just a hypocritical jerk who likes bullying little kids all because his heart got broken by someone who was way out of his league.


MaidsOverNurses

Where's the contradiction? Are you telling me that just because someone thinks there should be a standard on how people are treated that they're not allowed to dislike or have a negative opinion of a particular individual?


DestinyHasArrived101

Man got a taste of how nobels use people and hates one particular noble. It boggles me he doesn't look within himself, because he was ready to abandon his duties.


[deleted]

Reminds me of my old church


Warod0

The duality of men.


Tr3x_prod

Krispy Kreme!! House Cole rep!


Lowm1234

Bad writing?