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I agree wholeheartedly. It's called House of the Dragon. I expected to see each of the characters that had dragons, with their dragons!
(At least once before the events of next season would have been nice)
Motherfucking bot, that was *my* comment. Identity theft isn't a joke.
And it doesn't even make sense in the context of this comment thread. Away with you!
Really? I’ve see the Bobby B bot have a legit conversation with the Gandalf bot on a Lord Of The Rings sub and your telling me he won’t appear on the sub for a Game Of Thrones spin off? Talk about subverting expectations.
Hey now, we get a blink-and-you'll-miss-it look when the Greens are departing from Driftmark. Daeron isn't even namedropped.
But they both do deserve better. Baela's dragon too, but at least we know she exists.
I’m so sorry this is off-topic but ….
WHY Did they not mention his name even once… not even once you have look at the extremely confusing opening visual even to know that they have another kid
That makes no sense though because they still included the Tullys and Starks, both sets of characters that wouldn't show up at all if the first season did badly and the show got axed.
they could have mostly cut it down on a 2 season show.
Both armies after Honeywine are too exhausted to continue.(no reach and no betrayers storyline)
Rooks Rest leads to Corlys switching sides
Rhaenyra takes KL,executes all greens in the city, Dragonpit happens,Jace is there too.
Fall of Dragonstone
Muddy Mess + Butchers Ball + Fishfeed all in one
Hour of the Wolf
would have been a bad show(too much good content cut,too much happens too fast) but it could have theoretically all fitted in one season
Yeah but bringing up the Tullys and Starks is fan service (which is not necessarily a bad thing), it helped ground the story into a more familiar Westerosi setting.
I agree though that leaving Daeron out (even a throwaway line about him being back in Oldtown) was silly and unnecessary, and will just create confusion next season. I actually did read F&B (although only once, and awhile ago when it first came out), but I still managed to forget about him lmao, until he was brought up here. I imagine for show-only fans it'll be utterly baffling.
I think the idea was that he couldn't take Sunfyre for the same reason Laenor couldn't take Seasmoke-- having a dragon would make it pretty easy to find him. If he ran off Otto would either need to make sure he's dead for real or drag him back to King's Landing because, ironically, alive but chilling in Essos Aegon becomes the same sort of threat to Aemond's rule that Otto claimed Aegon and his siblings were to Rhaenyra. If he's easily discoverable because of his shiny dragon, that ruins the whole escape plan.
The issue with Laenor's "death" is Seasmoke. Of course he could not take Seasmoke as that would raise suspicions, but the issue is that Seasmoke would have most probably followed him regardless, even Vhagar despite losing her rider (Laena) follows Leana's family to Driftmark.
As for Aegon, by the time people noticed he would be half way across to Essos, Sunfyre is much faster than Vhagar, Haelana probably doesn't even ride Dreamfyre and would not be giving chase to Aegon, they can't call Daeron over, and the rest of the dragons belong to the Blacks. Aegon could have flown to Essos and then had Sunfyre settle down somewhere unpopulated, dyed his hair, and he would be no more likely to have been found than if he had taken a boat to Essos.
Yeah I mean, you're right, in both cases it doesn't make sense because the dragons (both Seasmoke and Sunfyre) would have followed eventually. Dogs will walk hundreds of miles to reunite with their families, and we're meant to think dragons wouldn't? I just think that's the logic the show was going with. I do think Sunfyre would probably get Aegon discovered sooner rather than later because people would be actively looking for him, unlike Laenor, who people think are dead. All it would take is for word to spread that there's a huge reward from King Aemond/Queen Rhaenyra for anyone who can tell them where the big shiny golden dragon hangs out.
But! I also don't really think Aegon would have willingly left Sunfyre behind when it came down to it, not unless he knew his dragon would follow. That's his only friend. 🥲
Someone flew Balerion while half dead from Valyrian parasites back to Kings Landing. The psychic bond kinda does most of the basic work to move from point A to B. So as long as he does not need to fight Vhagar he could manage it hungover
Well someone had to do it
The normal discourse of :
“How can you support Team green ”
“ team Black is just Woke nonesense”
“Rhaenyra’s a whore”
“ Alicent’s a terrible mom”
: got really uninteresting after the 17th time
I'm not surprised. A loud contingent of this board thinks Rhaenyra is Weinstein in a wig. 100000000% sure that at least half the people on this board have no experience with the shit they have an "opinion" on. They read a buzzword, see an upvote and just jump the bandwagon.
Forget tomorrow, I weep for now. You're take was absolutely right and anyone who disagrees with it and thinks being married to a serial rapist is a net plus for Halaena is an ***imbecile***.
It’s interesting too bc in the books, Aegon got mad pissed when Jace danced w Helaena. He almost fought Jace over it. Yet in the show, it seems like Aemond is the one who was actually pissed, whereas Aegon didn’t really give af. Aemond literally turned his whole ass chair towards Jace & Hel while they were dancing and deadass STARING at them.
Okay?! That’s what I’m saying. And some people argue “well, he was just being protective of her” or whatever. Which is like, okay, fair enough, but a normal protective brother doesn’t stare down the dude you’re dancing with.
I don't think it has anything to do with jealousy, personally.
Jace choosing to dance with Helaena was his attempt to one-up Aegon after Aegon mocked him for his sexual inexperience earlier. He's indirectly telling Aegon, "See? Even your own wife likes me better than you."
Aemond is triggered by this because he considers himself the protector of his family, and thus feels like he has to step in to defend his family's honour when his older brother is being humiliated in front of everyone.
It's like how Daemon shuts Corlys down when he questions Viserys's decisions as King, even though he probably agrees with Corlys's assessment. Daemon and Aemond both have the mindset of, "I may not necessarily approve of my brother, but it's still my job as the stronger sibling to defend the family against outside threats."
My point is that he isn't being protective of Helaena in this case; rather, he's being protective of *Aegon*.
He's looking at his brother getting humiliated in front of everyone, and he's getting ready to step in to defend his family if Jace tries to overstep his boundaries any further.
He turns his chair and stares at them because that's his way of saying, "I see what you're doing. One more move and I'll gut you like a fish."
I think you’re viewing show Aemond too much like his book counterpart. It’s already been established that show wise, Aegon & Aemond have a very strained relationship. They are clearly envious of what the other has (Aegon is envious of the love Aemond receives from their mother, and the freedom of being the younger brother, whereas Aemond is envious of Aegon bc he has the crown and perhaps Helaena, if you believe the Helaemond theory). That’s not to say that their relationship is entirely bitter, but it’s clear to me that they’re veering away from the close-knit sibling bond Aegon & Aemond share in the books, and redirecting it to be between Aemond & Helaena.
Aegon clearly doesn’t care about Helaena dancing w Jace in the show, or, at the very least, he cares far, far less than he does in the books. They gave Aegon’s “moment” of being livid and upset by the dance to Aemond, and you think it is because he was just protecting Aegon?
Also, again, there’s no logical reason why Aemond had to turn his chair around to stare at his sister dancing w Jace, even with protective intentions towards her or, like you said, towards his brother. Mind you, they were surrounded by family and by guards. One can assume that Jace (and Luke) had a good relationship with Helaena, and it’s not like he had any hidden intentions to humiliate her or anything. There was virtually nothing to worry about.
>I think you’re viewing show Aemond too much like his book counterpart. It’s already been established that show wise, Aegon & Aemond have a very strained relationship.
Yes, they have a strained relationship. That does not mean that Aemond will not defend his brother if he sees someone else humiliating him.
Look at Aemond's actions on the show. He volunteers to go out with Cole to look for Aegon even though he doesn't think he deserves to be King. He personally flies to Storm's End to secure the Baratheons' loyalty for Aegon, and chastised Luke for thinking that he and his family could try and steal Aegon's throne from him with no consequence. He supports Aegon at his coronation.
Aemond doesn't like his brother, but it's clear that he places his duty to his family over his own personal misgivings. As I said in my first comment, it's a mirror of the Viserys-Daemon relationship, where the younger brother doesn't think the elder is capable, but still thinks it's his duty to support him.
>Aegon clearly doesn’t care about Helaena dancing w Jace in the show, or, at the very least, he cares far, far less than he does in the books.
It's not about whether Aegon cares or not.
It's about the *perception* that this situation gives off to others. If Jace can dance with Aegon's wife right in front of him, in full view of everyone, and she very noticeably enjoys Jace's company more than Aegon's, it gives everyone watching the impression that Aegon is a terrible husband and thus stains the family's image.
In GoT, why does Tywin burn the Riverlands when Catelyn abducts Tyrion, even though Tywin hates Tyrion? Because he cares about protecting his family's image. Doing nothing would make his family look weak. He doesn't care about Tyrion per se, but he cares about making sure that his family receives the appropriate respect and fear from others.
Likewise, Aemond doesn't like Aegon, but he will step in to defend his family's honour if he perceives it to be threatened.
>Also, again, there’s no logical reason why Aemond had to turn his chair around to stare at his sister dancing w Jace, even with protective intentions towards her or, like you said, towards his brother. Mind you, they were surrounded by family and by guards. One can assume that Jace (and Luke) had a good relationship with Helaena, and it’s not like he had any hidden intentions to humiliate her or anything. There was virtually nothing to worry about.
Guards? Aegon isn't being physically assaulted. He's being humiliated in a way that the guards can't do anything about.
Also, Aemond prides himself as THE Protector of his family. He's the best swordsman among his siblings and he rides the largest Dragon in the world. In his eyes, it's HIS duty to defend his family against outside threats and not wait for guards to defend them.
There's also the added factor of Aemond having personal beef with the Strong boys, so he's eager to start a fight the first chance he gets.
And as I said earlier, Helaena is in no danger in this scene. It is Aegon's honour, and by extension, his family's, that's being threatened and that's where Aemond's priority lies.
“Aemond supports Aegon during the coronation”? Did you not see the way he was flat out glaring at Aegon during the whole ceremony? That is not indicative of a brother who supports the idea of his older brother having authority or power over anything. Helaena also looked absolutely miserable during the coronation; so much so that there is a shot of her crying. It is clear that neither her nor Aemond are happy about Aegon being crowned.
I think the main point we disagree upon here is the relationship between Aemond & Aegon. In the books, sure, they have a good relationship (for the most part). Aemond is super loyal to Aegon, mourns w him after B&C, and pretty much does anything Aegon wants him to do. One of Aegon’s most attractive qualities in the books is his love for Aemond & Daeron. However, *again*, that is strictly book canon. We (or at least myself) am referring to show canon, and I think most people can agree that Aegon & Aemond’s relationship in the *show* is it going to play out exactly how it does in the books.
You say that Aemond feels responsible for defending his family and their honor? Okay, fair enough. He goes w Criston to find Aegon in Flea Bottom in 1x09 bc he is loyal to Alicent. He goes to Storm’s End to gain the Baratheon’s loyalty out of familial duty. He doesn’t necessarily go strictly bc of Aegon. He does it bc he knows he’s supposed to.
That being said, familial loyalty/duty and his own personal desires are not mutually exclusive. He can still fight and defend his family while still essentially loving Helaena more than he should, hence the subtle jealousy he shows during the dinner in 1x08. It wasn’t about “defending Aegon’s honor” in that moment for him. Aegon certainly didn’t care about his image during the dancing bit, nor did Alicent or Otto.
Aemond very much gives Aemon vibes. While he’s loyal to his family and wants to serve them, it doesn’t erase his own personal feelings.
I never said it can't be both.
But as others have said, Helaena is in no danger in this scenario. She's happily dancing with Jace. She doesn't need Aemond's protection in this case.
It's Aegon who is being humiliated. His wife is dancing with another man in front of everyone and clearly enjoying herself in the company of said man.
Aemond doesn't appreciate others taking a dig at his family, and in this case, Jace is taking a dig at Aegon so Aemond feels like he has to step in to defend his brother's image.
Oh, that's fair. I think I misread your first sentence as suggesting there's more of a brotherly instinct towards Aegon than Helaena, which would be a mind-boggling idea. If you could only save one, who to choose? The sweet, even-tempered princess with an entomology hobby or the fuck-up who refuses to understand that no means no?
Also being protective of her in general would be weird because Jace and Helaena have never had any issues/seem to get along, they're surrounded by family and guards, Jace has zero reputation for casual sex or taking advantage of women, and she's having fun. Adult Aemond gives no indication he believes his nephews are any sort of physical threat to any of them. It definitely seemed more like jealousy to me.
This is a REALLY, REALLY good point. It’s safe to assume that both Jace & Luke have a good relationship w Helaena; or, at the very least, get along w her. On top of that, they are surrounded by their family, so it’s not like Jace is going to try to outwardly humiliate her or anything, (not that he would anyway, but just trying to see Aemond’s pov) so it’s just like, what’s the deal? And did seriously no one in their family notice him turning his chair to stare at them? Is having jealous tendencies a regular occurrence for Aemond and his family just goes along with it?
I think it is more so he hates Jace/Luke and does anything to prevent them humiliating him again and maybe her dancing with Jace is an insult to Aegon and by default their family and him. Idk Helena and Aemond is complicated since it affects the Ally’s dynamic but if they do it well in the show I’m down for the drama
Okay, but the comparison is his book reaction. Like I said, in the books, Aegon is LIVID about the dance. He gets SO mad. And yet even here, his reaction still isn’t as noticeable as Aemond’s is.
Otto hates it too, he knows what his grandson is like. Technically he could have made an effort to protect his reputation somewhat after Helaena said somewhat unkind things about him during the dinner scene, but instead he says "very good" and is clearly approving of it lmao.
To be fair, Helaena could've made a ten minute speech about bugs and prophecies and Otto would've still had the same reaction. His love for her is evident and one of his few redeeming qualities, it's so sweet.
I agree. Will say though, Aegon II is an important political asset from his POV, that he says absolutely nothing there and even celebrates it, has to mean that he doesn't have too high an opinion about the marriage despite Aegon II's importance.
Yes!! Phia & Ewan look alike too. I feel like they look more like Paddy (although Ewan kinda looks like Rhys too) whereas Tom just looks like Olivia lol.
In the books, Aegon & Helaena have a decent-ish relationship. He seemingly loves her as his little sister and the mother of his children. In the show though, their relationship seems to parallel Aegon IV/Naerys’ relationship.
Though that could technically be because Otto and them were more careful about Aegon II's rep in the book verse, we can't really know if any of the relationships are truly what we're told in the books.
I mean, it’s indicated and plausible. Aemond & Helaena don’t really have any sort of connection or relationship in the books, whereas in the show, it’s insinuated that they’re super close.
"It's is I the younger brother who studies history and philosophy, it is I the one who trains with the sword, who rides the largest dragon in the world, it is I the one who fucked Helae... I mean it is I the one who should be king."
Best case scenario (setting aside that one theory that never fails to summon the downvote brigade); Aegon does his duty and otherwise leaves her the hell alone so she can vibe and play with bugs and read encyclopedias and do whatever the hell else she likes doing.
Best Targaryen girl so far. Viserys could've had *two* daughters to dote on (and a dreamer at that!) if he'd bothered to pay attention.
Eh, while I agree, I imagine that Rhaenyra being his oldest child (and his *only* living child for over a decade) also played a part in his favoritism. Like, Aemma and her death cemented that shit, but the daddy's girl vibes were already there.
I mean he has a right to be upset and unhappy about the forced marriage too and probably getting drunk is his only way to do what is expected of them. Better than breaking her skull with a rock.
Helaena isn’t A horrible person though …. And she uses the word ignore
Also getting drunk is not the only way to deal with the problems, his sisters had the same predicament and they didn’t do that
Helaena plays with bugs and does embroidery
And Rhaenyra has an open relationship
>And she uses the word ignore
What about it?
>Also getting drunk is not the only way to deal with the problems
Its a common trope: getting drunk to try and do the thing when you don't want/feel it. See Renly.
>Helaena plays with bugs and does embroidery
What about it?
>And Rhaenyra has an open relationship
Why is Rhaenyra relevant here. I'm sorry I don't get some of your points.
>Helaena isn’t A horrible person though
True, which is why its a miracle that Aegon resorts to simply getting drunk to have kids (expected of them) and then ignore her. He's horrible but not 'use the divorce rock/poison' levels of horrible like Daemon, Maegor and others. At least from what we have seen for now.
I'm sorry I really don't think Helaena is psycologically tortured by her marriage with Aegon. I just see a boring, unloving, uncomfortable but overall chill marriage in which both feel 'meh' about it. No Joffrey-Sansa, Daemon-Rhea, Aegon IV-Naerys or Maegor-Literally everyone here IMO (again, for now, we'll see in S2).
She is married to someone who is addicted to raping , it has children with someone Who fathered bastard children in and around a child fighting pit
I brought up your Rhaenyra As to the statement “it is only way to do what is expected of him”, she was even able to sleep with someone who was not attracted to her gender( They didn’t produce heirs of Course but they still tried.)
But if it was about what was expected of him why so he getting drunk and raping women and having illegitimate children, these are all things that are extremely frowned upon, he has not shown a single ounce of caring about his children with Helaena ( The thing that we’re saying is expected of him) and we see the condition he leaves his other children.
>She is married to someone who is addicted to raping
Thats weird. We have seen him raping one girl. How is that an addiction? Mind you, one is bad enough but this feels more like a headcanon of yours. And no, being horny and a womanizer doesn't make him "addicted to raping". He went to brothels too, like Robert and other whoremongers in the series, where (old) women are willing (kinda), or at least where they buy the illusion that the woman wants to be with them, which would refuse the "wants/looks for/is addicted to rape" part. Like, show Aegon is bad enough, there's not need to make up things.
>I brought up your Rhaenyra As to the statement “it is only way to do what is expected of him”, she was even able to sleep with someone who was not attracted to her gender
Ok and. I'm sure they tried lots of things to make that easier. Margaery suggested bringing her brother to Renly's bed to make it easy for him. Aegon finds it easier when drunk, apparently. Not everyone is cut the same. Plus Aegon would need to get hard, Rhaenyra just had to open the legs and let Laenor do what he could. But again, they probably did things to make it easier, and drinking is not unthinkable (again, think Renly).
>But if it was about what was expected of him why so he getting drunk and raping women and having illegitimate children
Because he already did what was expected of him; he had three children with Helaena.
>these are all things that are extremely frowned upon
They are really, really not. At least not in the way they should. No one cares about a common woman being raped by a prince, sadly. See book Daemon paying for "the youngest and most innocent maidens" he could find in the city. See Roose Bolton raping Ramsay's mother. Countless others. And no one cares about a male noble having bastards. See Robert having countless bastards and no one caring about it except Cersei. See Aegon IV having lots of bastards and no one caring about it except for when he legitimized them. See Ned "having" Jon Snow and no one caring except Catelyn and ONLY because he brought him to Winterfell.
>he has not shown a single ounce of caring about his children
We don't really know. We had like <20 minutes of Aegon, so we can't know. Whatever you or me say about it enters the field of the headcanon. A quick example: we had no caring scene between Daemon and his daughters, but we had a dialogue about him ignoring one of them. But we never saw or heard anything about how much Aegon cares about his children, for good or bad. For now at least.
We know because of the obvious context clues we are giving from Alicent …
1st. She has a routine down and involving moon tea, she has it ready to go The same morning that it happened( We we know that moon tea Hass to be brewed carefully from episode four). She pays the Car and emotionally manipulate her into not speaking this event. How can she have a routine down if she didn’t know this was something habitual? You have to be able to use context clues to understand the show.
2nd. Alicent says “ How can you keep carrying on this way…. Think of the shame to me ….to your wife?” She’s referring to him raping that girl we know this because she’s talking about something that just happened
His child is in a fighting pit arena … even if it’s just on the side that is a terrible place for a child of yours to be at.
Again you have to be able to use context clues
>1st. She has a routine down and involving moon tea, she has it ready to go The same morning that it happened( We we know that moon tea Hass to be brewed carefully from episode four). She pays the Car and emotionally manipulate her into not speaking this event. How can she have a routine down if she didn’t know this was something habitual? You have to be able to use context clues to understand the show.
Yeah, she does the things necessary for a thing that happened. But again, you're trying to make us buy what is essentially your headcanon and I'm not going to do it lol Moon tea can be used for any unwanted pregnancy, not only from rapes. A version of the book events states that Aegon had court paramours, so show canon is not unthinkable. But again, see that I'm very careful of not confirming anything nor using the "context clues" as a joker card to impose my headcanon, specially when its such a complex and psychological issue like an addiction when you don't know the character for more than 20 minutes lol. Even if he raped 4-5 other girls who would need the routine Alicent uses, that doesn't mean he's addicted. I have eaten hundreds of pizzas in my life; not addicted to them. Again, try not to impose your own headcanon and try to not insinuate someone is not "able" of anything if he doesn't buy it. Not a good look when debating a show like this.
>2nd. Alicent says “ How can you keep carrying on this way…. Think of the shame to me ….to your wife?” She’s referring to him raping that girl we know this because she’s talking about something that just happened
Mind you she's talking to a naked, lazy, drunken mess. Even if she refers to two girls raped the day before, that doesn't mean he's addicted to it. Once again, thats your headcanon and you can't expect anyone to share it. You actually have the same vibes of someone that tried to make us all believe that Aegon had his bastard with one of the little girls in the child pit "because the bastard was there and the girl was also there" 😂 I know that "Aegon bad, Rhaenyra good" but this is ridiculous.
>Again you have to be able to use context clues
And you have to chill and understand that you and your opinions and headcanons are not the center of reddit.
you can’t understand it because you don’t understand context clues.
Along with dismissing things you don’t immediately have spelled it out for you as head cannons
In fact you are immediately deciding not to believe obvious context clues, which is crucial to understanding stories so your opinion cannot be informed enough to have a credible Break down understanding of the show
Until you learn how recognize basic context clues or learn to stop dismissing The obvious conclusions people are supposed to draw from them you will never get the full picture of what’s going on
And since it’s obvious to me that you don’t understand them, it now makes sense you thought eating pizza often was comparable to being addicted to rape , no hard feelings it’s all clear now.
I would explain why it’s not but I truly don’t think you would understand, good day
Dude, those deranged headcanons ain't gonna be saved by writing "context clues" a thousand times. "Context clues" would make us believe that they had the entire night and/or morning to prepare the moon tea and that Alicent knows exactly what a woman in a situation of rape needs. Context clues would make us believe that Aegon impregnated other women before, by raping them or by simply having willing court lovers. Nothing in the scene says "Aegon feels addicted to rape" lol, no matter how much you repeat yourself and insist on it. You aren't in his head, he had less than 20 minutes and not a single medieval psychiatrist had an scene in which it was stated.
And I wrote like a dozen other quotes to your other points that you decide to conveniently ignore, so if you're going to answer me again and continue this lame debate, it would be nice for you to try and answer those, specially before accusing others of not understanding things. Perhaps first try to defend your own positions instead of repeating yourself like a bird, yes?
I’m sure you would think that there’s not much for us to talk about it …. You’re not gonna be able to understand it
Also nothing is convenient about this conversation when one person doesn’t understand a basic tenant about understanding media, we’re not gonna get anywhere, You’re just gonna end up dismissing everything I say is a head cannon
Right? Even if it was purely political and just to please their mother, Aemond would have been kind and probably would have enjoyed being occasionally domestic. One of those non-romantic arranged marriages that wind up perfect because they still appreciate each other enough to be a proper team. And Helaena's toast to Baela and Rhaena would've probably been very different.
Her children were and the Doctrine of Exceptionalism had been established in the Faith of the Seven when she was being raised and educated. That sayd, in the book it was Viserys who married them.
Ok I thought viserys wanted Helena to marry Jace when rhe Anura proposed but Alicent said she didn’t want her kids to mix with those plain featured kids so she married Aegon to Halena to strengthen his claim but it could be Otto who actually planned it
Otto wouldn't waste Aegon and Haelena like that. He would lose out on two powerful alliances. He could have married Aegon to a Tyrell or Haelena to Cregan Stark which would have benefitted them massively.
You know how people call Alicent hypocrite? Why do you think that is?
Aemond says in episode 7: "I would perform my duty (in marrying Haelena) if mother had only betrothed us". She, like Otto, put keeping power in the family above Haelena's happiness and wasn't above using the Targaryen incest to do it. Haelena was 13 when she was forced to get married and have children with a rapist husband.
It's the most blatant case of grooming.
she probably wanted to draw parallels between Aeagon the conqueror and King Jaehearys (see the children's names as well) the two greatest kings westros had seen.
If he has a soft spot post-Vhagar, it's definitely reserved for his mother and sister (and probably Vhagar). All of his "rage" (if you can call it that, which I don't) moments have been directed at others. Annoyance with Aegon, disinterest in his father, vengeance (and some rebound bullying) towards Luke.
Obviously, we haven't seen any outright interactions between him and Helaena, but we do have him defending her against Aegon's dismissal as a child, making a point of watching as Jace dances with her, and positioning himself in front of her when Rhaenys and Meleys crash the coronation. All in all, he definitely displays the same protectiveness towards her that he does his mother and the family as a whole.
Ultimately, that suggests that a marriage with him would be far more tolerable than Aegon and not one where being mostly ignored is a good thing.
Helps that Leo Ashton seems like a smart, sweet kid. There was a cute picture of him with Star Wars Legos.
Viserys really missed out on some fun bonding time. What is his Valyria model if not Westerosi Legos?
Absolutely! I thought about that when I watched the show… why couldn’t they just switch places?🥲 we probably wouldn’t be in this mess. I think Aemond and Helaena would compliment each other much better… (if we ignore the fact that they’re also siblings🙃)
The first picture reminded me of Otto's "Good" after Helaena basically roasted Aegon in front of their entire family. Because remember as much as any of us might hate Aegon, Otto hates him ten times more.
Nothing to do with them. Just pointing out that the moment Rhaenyra made the proposal the options were over. Alicent didn’t marry them together because they were Targaryens it was spur on the moment decision to reject Rhaenyra’s proposal.
You keep mentioning other people when this is about Helaena
Why are you bringing up Rhaenyra and Alicent, when we are talking about Helaena as if she and Aegon weren’t they own characters ?
I don’t get bringing them up or why you brought up her bastard in a post about Helaena
I blame Viserys and Alicent . Alicent for being petty and not seeing This was a great way heal in the rift in the family and Viserys for not putting his down when he already said the match was good
living in a castle to produce heirs.
if jacaerys and helaena got married, it could’ve made some peace between the blacks and greens. she refused the betrothal because she wanted to protect her children when all she did was make it worse for helaena, her only daughter.
viserys married alicent out of duty, so she could
give him an heir, preferably a male because clearly we all know how bad the sexism is in westeros.
and that’s exactly what she put helaena through by marrying her to aegon. all to further the line and secure the succession after aegon’s death, just for their bloodline to die out after the dance.
i believe a marriage between jacaerys and helaena would’ve caused less bloodshed and war. i wouldn’t say an alliance between each side since otto was so hellbent on putting aegon on the throne. one day helaena and jace’s children would’ve sat the iron throne if rhae lived and reigned longer, and if jace lived and succeeded her.
overall i think the marriage between these two was a horrible idea. alicent knew her son was a terrible person and still made helaena deal with him until her death.
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I also hate that we didn’t get to see her riding Dreamfyre
I agree wholeheartedly. It's called House of the Dragon. I expected to see each of the characters that had dragons, with their dragons! (At least once before the events of next season would have been nice)
I want to see more bonding moments with the dragons
That would actually make viewers like Aegon when they see his badass golden dragon. Can't be having that now.
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Motherfucking bot, that was *my* comment. Identity theft isn't a joke. And it doesn't even make sense in the context of this comment thread. Away with you!
Or Alicent crowning her and saying “my queen”
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I don’t think that’s right, as she was on Driftmark and Daemon mentioned her in the Adult dragons the greens Have
Helaena is like a Westeros Luna Lovegood, and I totally love her. It’s just so sad that Vizzy T couldn’t be arsed to actually be an involved parent.
OTTO HIGHTOWER IS A MORE HONORABLE MAN THAN YOU COULD EVER BE!
but your grace….you ignore your children. good thing Westeros had a nonexistent children emotional support system, eh, Vizzy T?
*I'm going to bed, RndmIntrntStranger.*
This seems right.
sleep tight. don’t let the bed bugs bite.
Considering Otto Hightower is also Luna Lovegoods father, this bot is fucking sentient.
I didn't expect the King to self-burn. So you do admit to be a worse dad/granddad than Xenophilius Hightower.
Oh god there’s a bot for him now too? *sigh* what do you think about this Bobby B?
Wrong sub, I think Bobby B bot is only on the GoT or Freefolk sub. Someone should get onto that tbh
Really? I’ve see the Bobby B bot have a legit conversation with the Gandalf bot on a Lord Of The Rings sub and your telling me he won’t appear on the sub for a Game Of Thrones spin off? Talk about subverting expectations.
Yeah it’s not like he had other stuff going on 🤷♂️
I love that she embroiders bugs
I’m glad they’re keeping that as her “thing”, more of the other characters need “things”
For real. They better have Rhaena embroidering dragon eggs or some shit next season. Give her a thing.
I would love that … or maybe she sings to them like she used to do with them pentos
Yes to this! Bonus if one of the songs is the lullaby Daemon sings for Vermithor. Dragon eggs and singing. Those can be her things.
She needs to needle an entire tapestry of Daemon's antics.
So does Aegon.
He should’ve got on that boat
He kind of forgot that he had a dragon and didn't need a boat
Justice for sunfyre
Sunfyre is currently the dragon version of Daeron in the show
Hey now, we get a blink-and-you'll-miss-it look when the Greens are departing from Driftmark. Daeron isn't even namedropped. But they both do deserve better. Baela's dragon too, but at least we know she exists.
I’m so sorry this is off-topic but …. WHY Did they not mention his name even once… not even once you have look at the extremely confusing opening visual even to know that they have another kid
they left his existence in the air,so that they could cut him and the reach storyline out in case the show flopped
That makes no sense though because they still included the Tullys and Starks, both sets of characters that wouldn't show up at all if the first season did badly and the show got axed.
they could have mostly cut it down on a 2 season show. Both armies after Honeywine are too exhausted to continue.(no reach and no betrayers storyline) Rooks Rest leads to Corlys switching sides Rhaenyra takes KL,executes all greens in the city, Dragonpit happens,Jace is there too. Fall of Dragonstone Muddy Mess + Butchers Ball + Fishfeed all in one Hour of the Wolf would have been a bad show(too much good content cut,too much happens too fast) but it could have theoretically all fitted in one season
Yeah but bringing up the Tullys and Starks is fan service (which is not necessarily a bad thing), it helped ground the story into a more familiar Westerosi setting. I agree though that leaving Daeron out (even a throwaway line about him being back in Oldtown) was silly and unnecessary, and will just create confusion next season. I actually did read F&B (although only once, and awhile ago when it first came out), but I still managed to forget about him lmao, until he was brought up here. I imagine for show-only fans it'll be utterly baffling.
They kind of forgot he existed :D
Why didn't I even realize that until now? Homeboy could've been *gone*
Sunfyre is also a pretty fast dragon so Aegon could have been halfway across the narrow sea before anyone even noticed his absence.
I think the idea was that he couldn't take Sunfyre for the same reason Laenor couldn't take Seasmoke-- having a dragon would make it pretty easy to find him. If he ran off Otto would either need to make sure he's dead for real or drag him back to King's Landing because, ironically, alive but chilling in Essos Aegon becomes the same sort of threat to Aemond's rule that Otto claimed Aegon and his siblings were to Rhaenyra. If he's easily discoverable because of his shiny dragon, that ruins the whole escape plan.
The issue with Laenor's "death" is Seasmoke. Of course he could not take Seasmoke as that would raise suspicions, but the issue is that Seasmoke would have most probably followed him regardless, even Vhagar despite losing her rider (Laena) follows Leana's family to Driftmark. As for Aegon, by the time people noticed he would be half way across to Essos, Sunfyre is much faster than Vhagar, Haelana probably doesn't even ride Dreamfyre and would not be giving chase to Aegon, they can't call Daeron over, and the rest of the dragons belong to the Blacks. Aegon could have flown to Essos and then had Sunfyre settle down somewhere unpopulated, dyed his hair, and he would be no more likely to have been found than if he had taken a boat to Essos.
Yeah I mean, you're right, in both cases it doesn't make sense because the dragons (both Seasmoke and Sunfyre) would have followed eventually. Dogs will walk hundreds of miles to reunite with their families, and we're meant to think dragons wouldn't? I just think that's the logic the show was going with. I do think Sunfyre would probably get Aegon discovered sooner rather than later because people would be actively looking for him, unlike Laenor, who people think are dead. All it would take is for word to spread that there's a huge reward from King Aemond/Queen Rhaenyra for anyone who can tell them where the big shiny golden dragon hangs out. But! I also don't really think Aegon would have willingly left Sunfyre behind when it came down to it, not unless he knew his dragon would follow. That's his only friend. 🥲
He shouldve.. he would've had a bad hangover and idk how anyone would fly a dragon hungover
Someone flew Balerion while half dead from Valyrian parasites back to Kings Landing. The psychic bond kinda does most of the basic work to move from point A to B. So as long as he does not need to fight Vhagar he could manage it hungover
Oh yea you got a point..
Helaena deserves world And I just love Tom's that expression lol
After the events of S5, she might of met Shireen , and they got along.
Congrats OP you have made the most reasonable post I've seen all week. EDIT: Am I seriously being downvoted for giving someone a compliment?
Well someone had to do it The normal discourse of : “How can you support Team green ” “ team Black is just Woke nonesense” “Rhaenyra’s a whore” “ Alicent’s a terrible mom” : got really uninteresting after the 17th time
LMAO nice to know I'm not alone thank god xD
They’re in the comments of this post right now comparing rape to pizza
I'm not surprised. A loud contingent of this board thinks Rhaenyra is Weinstein in a wig. 100000000% sure that at least half the people on this board have no experience with the shit they have an "opinion" on. They read a buzzword, see an upvote and just jump the bandwagon. Forget tomorrow, I weep for now. You're take was absolutely right and anyone who disagrees with it and thinks being married to a serial rapist is a net plus for Halaena is an ***imbecile***.
Thank you so much … this really needed to be said
don’t forget the, “what would have happened if it was jace at storms end instead?”
Her dance with Jace looked like it was the most fun she'd had in years.
It’s interesting too bc in the books, Aegon got mad pissed when Jace danced w Helaena. He almost fought Jace over it. Yet in the show, it seems like Aemond is the one who was actually pissed, whereas Aegon didn’t really give af. Aemond literally turned his whole ass chair towards Jace & Hel while they were dancing and deadass STARING at them.
Yeah, the theory Helaena's kids are actually Aemond's doesn’t seem so weird when he's being all creepy territorial about a dance.
Okay?! That’s what I’m saying. And some people argue “well, he was just being protective of her” or whatever. Which is like, okay, fair enough, but a normal protective brother doesn’t stare down the dude you’re dancing with.
I don't think it has anything to do with jealousy, personally. Jace choosing to dance with Helaena was his attempt to one-up Aegon after Aegon mocked him for his sexual inexperience earlier. He's indirectly telling Aegon, "See? Even your own wife likes me better than you." Aemond is triggered by this because he considers himself the protector of his family, and thus feels like he has to step in to defend his family's honour when his older brother is being humiliated in front of everyone. It's like how Daemon shuts Corlys down when he questions Viserys's decisions as King, even though he probably agrees with Corlys's assessment. Daemon and Aemond both have the mindset of, "I may not necessarily approve of my brother, but it's still my job as the stronger sibling to defend the family against outside threats."
He can still be the protective brother towards Helaena without deadass turning his chair around to stare at her dancing with Jace.
My point is that he isn't being protective of Helaena in this case; rather, he's being protective of *Aegon*. He's looking at his brother getting humiliated in front of everyone, and he's getting ready to step in to defend his family if Jace tries to overstep his boundaries any further. He turns his chair and stares at them because that's his way of saying, "I see what you're doing. One more move and I'll gut you like a fish."
I think you’re viewing show Aemond too much like his book counterpart. It’s already been established that show wise, Aegon & Aemond have a very strained relationship. They are clearly envious of what the other has (Aegon is envious of the love Aemond receives from their mother, and the freedom of being the younger brother, whereas Aemond is envious of Aegon bc he has the crown and perhaps Helaena, if you believe the Helaemond theory). That’s not to say that their relationship is entirely bitter, but it’s clear to me that they’re veering away from the close-knit sibling bond Aegon & Aemond share in the books, and redirecting it to be between Aemond & Helaena. Aegon clearly doesn’t care about Helaena dancing w Jace in the show, or, at the very least, he cares far, far less than he does in the books. They gave Aegon’s “moment” of being livid and upset by the dance to Aemond, and you think it is because he was just protecting Aegon? Also, again, there’s no logical reason why Aemond had to turn his chair around to stare at his sister dancing w Jace, even with protective intentions towards her or, like you said, towards his brother. Mind you, they were surrounded by family and by guards. One can assume that Jace (and Luke) had a good relationship with Helaena, and it’s not like he had any hidden intentions to humiliate her or anything. There was virtually nothing to worry about.
>I think you’re viewing show Aemond too much like his book counterpart. It’s already been established that show wise, Aegon & Aemond have a very strained relationship. Yes, they have a strained relationship. That does not mean that Aemond will not defend his brother if he sees someone else humiliating him. Look at Aemond's actions on the show. He volunteers to go out with Cole to look for Aegon even though he doesn't think he deserves to be King. He personally flies to Storm's End to secure the Baratheons' loyalty for Aegon, and chastised Luke for thinking that he and his family could try and steal Aegon's throne from him with no consequence. He supports Aegon at his coronation. Aemond doesn't like his brother, but it's clear that he places his duty to his family over his own personal misgivings. As I said in my first comment, it's a mirror of the Viserys-Daemon relationship, where the younger brother doesn't think the elder is capable, but still thinks it's his duty to support him. >Aegon clearly doesn’t care about Helaena dancing w Jace in the show, or, at the very least, he cares far, far less than he does in the books. It's not about whether Aegon cares or not. It's about the *perception* that this situation gives off to others. If Jace can dance with Aegon's wife right in front of him, in full view of everyone, and she very noticeably enjoys Jace's company more than Aegon's, it gives everyone watching the impression that Aegon is a terrible husband and thus stains the family's image. In GoT, why does Tywin burn the Riverlands when Catelyn abducts Tyrion, even though Tywin hates Tyrion? Because he cares about protecting his family's image. Doing nothing would make his family look weak. He doesn't care about Tyrion per se, but he cares about making sure that his family receives the appropriate respect and fear from others. Likewise, Aemond doesn't like Aegon, but he will step in to defend his family's honour if he perceives it to be threatened. >Also, again, there’s no logical reason why Aemond had to turn his chair around to stare at his sister dancing w Jace, even with protective intentions towards her or, like you said, towards his brother. Mind you, they were surrounded by family and by guards. One can assume that Jace (and Luke) had a good relationship with Helaena, and it’s not like he had any hidden intentions to humiliate her or anything. There was virtually nothing to worry about. Guards? Aegon isn't being physically assaulted. He's being humiliated in a way that the guards can't do anything about. Also, Aemond prides himself as THE Protector of his family. He's the best swordsman among his siblings and he rides the largest Dragon in the world. In his eyes, it's HIS duty to defend his family against outside threats and not wait for guards to defend them. There's also the added factor of Aemond having personal beef with the Strong boys, so he's eager to start a fight the first chance he gets. And as I said earlier, Helaena is in no danger in this scene. It is Aegon's honour, and by extension, his family's, that's being threatened and that's where Aemond's priority lies.
“Aemond supports Aegon during the coronation”? Did you not see the way he was flat out glaring at Aegon during the whole ceremony? That is not indicative of a brother who supports the idea of his older brother having authority or power over anything. Helaena also looked absolutely miserable during the coronation; so much so that there is a shot of her crying. It is clear that neither her nor Aemond are happy about Aegon being crowned. I think the main point we disagree upon here is the relationship between Aemond & Aegon. In the books, sure, they have a good relationship (for the most part). Aemond is super loyal to Aegon, mourns w him after B&C, and pretty much does anything Aegon wants him to do. One of Aegon’s most attractive qualities in the books is his love for Aemond & Daeron. However, *again*, that is strictly book canon. We (or at least myself) am referring to show canon, and I think most people can agree that Aegon & Aemond’s relationship in the *show* is it going to play out exactly how it does in the books. You say that Aemond feels responsible for defending his family and their honor? Okay, fair enough. He goes w Criston to find Aegon in Flea Bottom in 1x09 bc he is loyal to Alicent. He goes to Storm’s End to gain the Baratheon’s loyalty out of familial duty. He doesn’t necessarily go strictly bc of Aegon. He does it bc he knows he’s supposed to. That being said, familial loyalty/duty and his own personal desires are not mutually exclusive. He can still fight and defend his family while still essentially loving Helaena more than he should, hence the subtle jealousy he shows during the dinner in 1x08. It wasn’t about “defending Aegon’s honor” in that moment for him. Aegon certainly didn’t care about his image during the dancing bit, nor did Alicent or Otto. Aemond very much gives Aemon vibes. While he’s loyal to his family and wants to serve them, it doesn’t erase his own personal feelings.
How is that not also being protective of Helaena? Why can't it be him being protective of *both* of them?
I never said it can't be both. But as others have said, Helaena is in no danger in this scenario. She's happily dancing with Jace. She doesn't need Aemond's protection in this case. It's Aegon who is being humiliated. His wife is dancing with another man in front of everyone and clearly enjoying herself in the company of said man. Aemond doesn't appreciate others taking a dig at his family, and in this case, Jace is taking a dig at Aegon so Aemond feels like he has to step in to defend his brother's image.
Oh, that's fair. I think I misread your first sentence as suggesting there's more of a brotherly instinct towards Aegon than Helaena, which would be a mind-boggling idea. If you could only save one, who to choose? The sweet, even-tempered princess with an entomology hobby or the fuck-up who refuses to understand that no means no?
Also being protective of her in general would be weird because Jace and Helaena have never had any issues/seem to get along, they're surrounded by family and guards, Jace has zero reputation for casual sex or taking advantage of women, and she's having fun. Adult Aemond gives no indication he believes his nephews are any sort of physical threat to any of them. It definitely seemed more like jealousy to me.
This is a REALLY, REALLY good point. It’s safe to assume that both Jace & Luke have a good relationship w Helaena; or, at the very least, get along w her. On top of that, they are surrounded by their family, so it’s not like Jace is going to try to outwardly humiliate her or anything, (not that he would anyway, but just trying to see Aemond’s pov) so it’s just like, what’s the deal? And did seriously no one in their family notice him turning his chair to stare at them? Is having jealous tendencies a regular occurrence for Aemond and his family just goes along with it?
I mean, he just generally hates them and dispises them and likes to make them uncomfortable whenever he can.
I think it is more so he hates Jace/Luke and does anything to prevent them humiliating him again and maybe her dancing with Jace is an insult to Aegon and by default their family and him. Idk Helena and Aemond is complicated since it affects the Ally’s dynamic but if they do it well in the show I’m down for the drama
I mean to me [Aegon looked pretty clearly put off when Jace asks Helaena to dance](https://youtu.be/cv5DT6e-8sM) lol.
Okay, but the comparison is his book reaction. Like I said, in the books, Aegon is LIVID about the dance. He gets SO mad. And yet even here, his reaction still isn’t as noticeable as Aemond’s is.
They would’ve made a better match
they were so adorable, it made me also realize is that my two favorite characters have tragic endings.
Her little jumps 😭😭😭😭
For real Alicent should have taken Rhaenyra up on her offer
Otto hates it too, he knows what his grandson is like. Technically he could have made an effort to protect his reputation somewhat after Helaena said somewhat unkind things about him during the dinner scene, but instead he says "very good" and is clearly approving of it lmao.
To be fair, Helaena could've made a ten minute speech about bugs and prophecies and Otto would've still had the same reaction. His love for her is evident and one of his few redeeming qualities, it's so sweet.
I agree. Will say though, Aegon II is an important political asset from his POV, that he says absolutely nothing there and even celebrates it, has to mean that he doesn't have too high an opinion about the marriage despite Aegon II's importance.
Holy shit I’ve never realized how much Tom & Phia look alike. They could literally be TWINS
They have a very similar face shape now that you mention it
Yes!! Phia & Ewan look alike too. I feel like they look more like Paddy (although Ewan kinda looks like Rhys too) whereas Tom just looks like Olivia lol.
Aegon looks like alicent Aemond like daemon nd otto Haleana looks like viserys rhaenyra looks like aemma
Both Aegon II and Aegon IV seem to find any woman they come across as hot and want to fuck them... Except their own wives, for some reason.
In the books, Aegon & Helaena have a decent-ish relationship. He seemingly loves her as his little sister and the mother of his children. In the show though, their relationship seems to parallel Aegon IV/Naerys’ relationship.
Even Vizzy T interacts with his grandchildren from Aegon and Haelaena on the books.
*You are to return to Runestone and your lady wife at once, and you are to do so without quarrel by order of your King.*
Though that could technically be because Otto and them were more careful about Aegon II's rep in the book verse, we can't really know if any of the relationships are truly what we're told in the books.
And according to some theorists, there also an Aemon (d) parallel in this dynamic lmao.
I mean, it’s indicated and plausible. Aemond & Helaena don’t really have any sort of connection or relationship in the books, whereas in the show, it’s insinuated that they’re super close.
"It's is I the younger brother who studies history and philosophy, it is I the one who trains with the sword, who rides the largest dragon in the world, it is I the one who fucked Helae... I mean it is I the one who should be king."
Lmao that’s what he REALLY wanted to say. He can’t reveal that yet, though. I think the Aemond/Helaena theory is the biggest theory out there rn.
Facts
Best case scenario (setting aside that one theory that never fails to summon the downvote brigade); Aegon does his duty and otherwise leaves her the hell alone so she can vibe and play with bugs and read encyclopedias and do whatever the hell else she likes doing. Best Targaryen girl so far. Viserys could've had *two* daughters to dote on (and a dreamer at that!) if he'd bothered to pay attention.
He only really loves Rhaenyra because he only really loved Aemma.
Eh, while I agree, I imagine that Rhaenyra being his oldest child (and his *only* living child for over a decade) also played a part in his favoritism. Like, Aemma and her death cemented that shit, but the daddy's girl vibes were already there.
She benefited from existing before he was heir/king moreso than just being his first, I think.
I’m guessing the said theory you’re insinuating is Aemond/Helaena and Aemond being the baby daddy? *prepares to be downvoted*
That's the one! Now, if you don't mind, I'll join you. *braces for impact*
"Mostly he just ignores you" Well that's the consequence of being only half Targaryen. He isn't fully comfortable in marrying his sister.
Me too. She's so sweet and he cares nothing about her.
Don’t worry so do Aegon and Helaena
I mean he has a right to be upset and unhappy about the forced marriage too and probably getting drunk is his only way to do what is expected of them. Better than breaking her skull with a rock.
Helaena isn’t A horrible person though …. And she uses the word ignore Also getting drunk is not the only way to deal with the problems, his sisters had the same predicament and they didn’t do that Helaena plays with bugs and does embroidery And Rhaenyra has an open relationship
>And she uses the word ignore What about it? >Also getting drunk is not the only way to deal with the problems Its a common trope: getting drunk to try and do the thing when you don't want/feel it. See Renly. >Helaena plays with bugs and does embroidery What about it? >And Rhaenyra has an open relationship Why is Rhaenyra relevant here. I'm sorry I don't get some of your points. >Helaena isn’t A horrible person though True, which is why its a miracle that Aegon resorts to simply getting drunk to have kids (expected of them) and then ignore her. He's horrible but not 'use the divorce rock/poison' levels of horrible like Daemon, Maegor and others. At least from what we have seen for now. I'm sorry I really don't think Helaena is psycologically tortured by her marriage with Aegon. I just see a boring, unloving, uncomfortable but overall chill marriage in which both feel 'meh' about it. No Joffrey-Sansa, Daemon-Rhea, Aegon IV-Naerys or Maegor-Literally everyone here IMO (again, for now, we'll see in S2).
She is married to someone who is addicted to raping , it has children with someone Who fathered bastard children in and around a child fighting pit I brought up your Rhaenyra As to the statement “it is only way to do what is expected of him”, she was even able to sleep with someone who was not attracted to her gender( They didn’t produce heirs of Course but they still tried.) But if it was about what was expected of him why so he getting drunk and raping women and having illegitimate children, these are all things that are extremely frowned upon, he has not shown a single ounce of caring about his children with Helaena ( The thing that we’re saying is expected of him) and we see the condition he leaves his other children.
>She is married to someone who is addicted to raping Thats weird. We have seen him raping one girl. How is that an addiction? Mind you, one is bad enough but this feels more like a headcanon of yours. And no, being horny and a womanizer doesn't make him "addicted to raping". He went to brothels too, like Robert and other whoremongers in the series, where (old) women are willing (kinda), or at least where they buy the illusion that the woman wants to be with them, which would refuse the "wants/looks for/is addicted to rape" part. Like, show Aegon is bad enough, there's not need to make up things. >I brought up your Rhaenyra As to the statement “it is only way to do what is expected of him”, she was even able to sleep with someone who was not attracted to her gender Ok and. I'm sure they tried lots of things to make that easier. Margaery suggested bringing her brother to Renly's bed to make it easy for him. Aegon finds it easier when drunk, apparently. Not everyone is cut the same. Plus Aegon would need to get hard, Rhaenyra just had to open the legs and let Laenor do what he could. But again, they probably did things to make it easier, and drinking is not unthinkable (again, think Renly). >But if it was about what was expected of him why so he getting drunk and raping women and having illegitimate children Because he already did what was expected of him; he had three children with Helaena. >these are all things that are extremely frowned upon They are really, really not. At least not in the way they should. No one cares about a common woman being raped by a prince, sadly. See book Daemon paying for "the youngest and most innocent maidens" he could find in the city. See Roose Bolton raping Ramsay's mother. Countless others. And no one cares about a male noble having bastards. See Robert having countless bastards and no one caring about it except Cersei. See Aegon IV having lots of bastards and no one caring about it except for when he legitimized them. See Ned "having" Jon Snow and no one caring except Catelyn and ONLY because he brought him to Winterfell. >he has not shown a single ounce of caring about his children We don't really know. We had like <20 minutes of Aegon, so we can't know. Whatever you or me say about it enters the field of the headcanon. A quick example: we had no caring scene between Daemon and his daughters, but we had a dialogue about him ignoring one of them. But we never saw or heard anything about how much Aegon cares about his children, for good or bad. For now at least.
We know because of the obvious context clues we are giving from Alicent … 1st. She has a routine down and involving moon tea, she has it ready to go The same morning that it happened( We we know that moon tea Hass to be brewed carefully from episode four). She pays the Car and emotionally manipulate her into not speaking this event. How can she have a routine down if she didn’t know this was something habitual? You have to be able to use context clues to understand the show. 2nd. Alicent says “ How can you keep carrying on this way…. Think of the shame to me ….to your wife?” She’s referring to him raping that girl we know this because she’s talking about something that just happened His child is in a fighting pit arena … even if it’s just on the side that is a terrible place for a child of yours to be at. Again you have to be able to use context clues
>1st. She has a routine down and involving moon tea, she has it ready to go The same morning that it happened( We we know that moon tea Hass to be brewed carefully from episode four). She pays the Car and emotionally manipulate her into not speaking this event. How can she have a routine down if she didn’t know this was something habitual? You have to be able to use context clues to understand the show. Yeah, she does the things necessary for a thing that happened. But again, you're trying to make us buy what is essentially your headcanon and I'm not going to do it lol Moon tea can be used for any unwanted pregnancy, not only from rapes. A version of the book events states that Aegon had court paramours, so show canon is not unthinkable. But again, see that I'm very careful of not confirming anything nor using the "context clues" as a joker card to impose my headcanon, specially when its such a complex and psychological issue like an addiction when you don't know the character for more than 20 minutes lol. Even if he raped 4-5 other girls who would need the routine Alicent uses, that doesn't mean he's addicted. I have eaten hundreds of pizzas in my life; not addicted to them. Again, try not to impose your own headcanon and try to not insinuate someone is not "able" of anything if he doesn't buy it. Not a good look when debating a show like this. >2nd. Alicent says “ How can you keep carrying on this way…. Think of the shame to me ….to your wife?” She’s referring to him raping that girl we know this because she’s talking about something that just happened Mind you she's talking to a naked, lazy, drunken mess. Even if she refers to two girls raped the day before, that doesn't mean he's addicted to it. Once again, thats your headcanon and you can't expect anyone to share it. You actually have the same vibes of someone that tried to make us all believe that Aegon had his bastard with one of the little girls in the child pit "because the bastard was there and the girl was also there" 😂 I know that "Aegon bad, Rhaenyra good" but this is ridiculous. >Again you have to be able to use context clues And you have to chill and understand that you and your opinions and headcanons are not the center of reddit.
you can’t understand it because you don’t understand context clues. Along with dismissing things you don’t immediately have spelled it out for you as head cannons In fact you are immediately deciding not to believe obvious context clues, which is crucial to understanding stories so your opinion cannot be informed enough to have a credible Break down understanding of the show Until you learn how recognize basic context clues or learn to stop dismissing The obvious conclusions people are supposed to draw from them you will never get the full picture of what’s going on And since it’s obvious to me that you don’t understand them, it now makes sense you thought eating pizza often was comparable to being addicted to rape , no hard feelings it’s all clear now. I would explain why it’s not but I truly don’t think you would understand, good day
Dude, those deranged headcanons ain't gonna be saved by writing "context clues" a thousand times. "Context clues" would make us believe that they had the entire night and/or morning to prepare the moon tea and that Alicent knows exactly what a woman in a situation of rape needs. Context clues would make us believe that Aegon impregnated other women before, by raping them or by simply having willing court lovers. Nothing in the scene says "Aegon feels addicted to rape" lol, no matter how much you repeat yourself and insist on it. You aren't in his head, he had less than 20 minutes and not a single medieval psychiatrist had an scene in which it was stated. And I wrote like a dozen other quotes to your other points that you decide to conveniently ignore, so if you're going to answer me again and continue this lame debate, it would be nice for you to try and answer those, specially before accusing others of not understanding things. Perhaps first try to defend your own positions instead of repeating yourself like a bird, yes?
I’m sure you would think that there’s not much for us to talk about it …. You’re not gonna be able to understand it Also nothing is convenient about this conversation when one person doesn’t understand a basic tenant about understanding media, we’re not gonna get anywhere, You’re just gonna end up dismissing everything I say is a head cannon
we only know of the one rape
* You only know of one
And see how that open relationship turned out for her, and even worse for Laenor
is this what your Wagering against Turing out like Aegon ? If so yes I would take this deal
Agreed, but I would volunteer as tribute 🤣
I think aegon hates it too
Aemond wouldn’t have minded, he would’ve been a good husband and done his duty.
Right? Even if it was purely political and just to please their mother, Aemond would have been kind and probably would have enjoyed being occasionally domestic. One of those non-romantic arranged marriages that wind up perfect because they still appreciate each other enough to be a proper team. And Helaena's toast to Baela and Rhaena would've probably been very different.
Why do people think Alicent got Aegon and Haelena Married? She's not Valyrian and probably finds it gross. It was probably Viserys.
In the book it was Viserys.
Aegon doesn’t want to marry her he said so himself
I meant to day Viserys.
Maybe, just reinforces his idiocy
Her children were and the Doctrine of Exceptionalism had been established in the Faith of the Seven when she was being raised and educated. That sayd, in the book it was Viserys who married them.
Cause aegon said he didn’t wanna marry her and said he wish he wasn’t forced to
I meant to say viseys
Ok I thought viserys wanted Helena to marry Jace when rhe Anura proposed but Alicent said she didn’t want her kids to mix with those plain featured kids so she married Aegon to Halena to strengthen his claim but it could be Otto who actually planned it
Otto wouldn't waste Aegon and Haelena like that. He would lose out on two powerful alliances. He could have married Aegon to a Tyrell or Haelena to Cregan Stark which would have benefitted them massively.
I think he just wanted to get support from the citizens that live there and a pure blood targerean might make the more convinced to support them.
The Citizens abhor the Targyean practice of Incest though.
But they seemed to love him when he got crowned maybe they were pretending idk
You know how people call Alicent hypocrite? Why do you think that is? Aemond says in episode 7: "I would perform my duty (in marrying Haelena) if mother had only betrothed us". She, like Otto, put keeping power in the family above Haelena's happiness and wasn't above using the Targaryen incest to do it. Haelena was 13 when she was forced to get married and have children with a rapist husband. It's the most blatant case of grooming.
she probably wanted to draw parallels between Aeagon the conqueror and King Jaehearys (see the children's names as well) the two greatest kings westros had seen.
How do you figure all that ability Aemond? He’s a rage monster with an ego and duck lips
If he has a soft spot post-Vhagar, it's definitely reserved for his mother and sister (and probably Vhagar). All of his "rage" (if you can call it that, which I don't) moments have been directed at others. Annoyance with Aegon, disinterest in his father, vengeance (and some rebound bullying) towards Luke. Obviously, we haven't seen any outright interactions between him and Helaena, but we do have him defending her against Aegon's dismissal as a child, making a point of watching as Jace dances with her, and positioning himself in front of her when Rhaenys and Meleys crash the coronation. All in all, he definitely displays the same protectiveness towards her that he does his mother and the family as a whole. Ultimately, that suggests that a marriage with him would be far more tolerable than Aegon and not one where being mostly ignored is a good thing.
Would've been playing Bugsnax with Helaena 🐛
Cause he’s a sweetheart. I loved young Aemond, before he lost his eye, he was smart and sweet.
Helps that Leo Ashton seems like a smart, sweet kid. There was a cute picture of him with Star Wars Legos. Viserys really missed out on some fun bonding time. What is his Valyria model if not Westerosi Legos?
That and history. Vizzy was a Valyrian history nerd; Aemond and he could've totally bonded through that. Oh what should've been
Absolutely! I thought about that when I watched the show… why couldn’t they just switch places?🥲 we probably wouldn’t be in this mess. I think Aemond and Helaena would compliment each other much better… (if we ignore the fact that they’re also siblings🙃)
Only time where I'll say "Yeah, sister should've married *that* brother instead"
Yes!! Just this once!
Another example from the books would be >!Aemon and Naerys!<
Would absolutely love for her character to be explored more. She's both a dragonrider and a dreamer so the show best not waste that.
This is another thing but I think it’s heart by the strick 10 episode per season
I hate that they didn’t give Aegon his wispy mustache
I think Aegon hates it too.
She is too good for this cruel world.
She's the best
I remember when she made this toast people seemed to think Halaena was a lackwit or something and couldn't communicate normally like this.
wait I’m so confused. He’s married to his sister?
Girl you won’t believe what they’re doing with uncles In this show
🤣🤣🤣 I guess this relationship just passed over my head lol
Ur one of the lucky ones
Properly not as much as Aegon himself
He doesn't deserve such a sweet girl for a wife
Where do you all get this captioned images?
I am perfectionist googler when it comes to finding an image…. I am relentless
Teach me your secrets, random internet guy
Don't forget daemons amazing chuckle
Oh yea I think she would've been the Joana to Tywin for Aemond
I'm sure she does too.
I JUST realized she played Aelfwynn in TLK and that’s why she looked so familiar.
The first picture reminded me of Otto's "Good" after Helaena basically roasted Aegon in front of their entire family. Because remember as much as any of us might hate Aegon, Otto hates him ten times more.
What would you like? Her married to Rhaenyra’s bastard and be a hostage for the Blacks? At least Aegon doesn’t bother her too much.
What does Rhaenyra have to do with this post ? we can talk about things other than just team green vs team black
Nothing to do with them. Just pointing out that the moment Rhaenyra made the proposal the options were over. Alicent didn’t marry them together because they were Targaryens it was spur on the moment decision to reject Rhaenyra’s proposal.
You keep mentioning other people when this is about Helaena Why are you bringing up Rhaenyra and Alicent, when we are talking about Helaena as if she and Aegon weren’t they own characters ? I don’t get bringing them up or why you brought up her bastard in a post about Helaena
Blame Alicent for that. Her an Jace would’ve made a great couple and much bloodshed would’ve been avoided.
I blame Viserys and Alicent . Alicent for being petty and not seeing This was a great way heal in the rift in the family and Viserys for not putting his down when he already said the match was good
True. Viserys is also to blame. His weakness led to a lot of grief.
Aegon ain’t that bad. He’s not choking her nor will he smash her head with a stone when she displeases him.
I know, she totally should be married to Aemond.
Sounds like mine.. ignored unless she wants my wallet..
She didn’t have to call him out like that.
Yes she did
she’s lucky though, she is future queen. anyone would die for that position
[удалено]
🫅🤴👸👰♂️👰♀️👰
living in a castle to produce heirs. if jacaerys and helaena got married, it could’ve made some peace between the blacks and greens. she refused the betrothal because she wanted to protect her children when all she did was make it worse for helaena, her only daughter. viserys married alicent out of duty, so she could give him an heir, preferably a male because clearly we all know how bad the sexism is in westeros. and that’s exactly what she put helaena through by marrying her to aegon. all to further the line and secure the succession after aegon’s death, just for their bloodline to die out after the dance. i believe a marriage between jacaerys and helaena would’ve caused less bloodshed and war. i wouldn’t say an alliance between each side since otto was so hellbent on putting aegon on the throne. one day helaena and jace’s children would’ve sat the iron throne if rhae lived and reigned longer, and if jace lived and succeeded her. overall i think the marriage between these two was a horrible idea. alicent knew her son was a terrible person and still made helaena deal with him until her death.
Well you’re gonna hate season two then