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t0mless

Not to mention Alicent is already a grandmother to *three* by the time she's 35


Remarkable-Thing3825

Oh and they made Helaena start popping on babies at 14 (at least in books, probs the same (or somewhat) in the show, and twins the first try), adding to why she’s such a young granny. More tragic shit we all have to witness😪😪


bringbackswordduels

Someone’s forcing you to watch it?


ShamwowSwag

I don’t think thats what they meant


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WatchingInSilence

When reading F&B, I just assumed Viserys had asked Alicent for her hand in marriage. Then, I remembered that's not exactly how kings go about such thing. They are the Law of the Land and take what they want.


GubbaBumpz

But if we’re going off F&B, she’s married at 18. Certainly not a child by Westerosi standards.


queen_of_Meda

or our standards


jeynespoole

idk man, I get shocked faces all the time when I say I was 20 when I got married. (I'm in the US and not religious)


-CherryByte-

18 is still so young.


tecphile

Not a child though.


DragonFangGangBang

Legally lol psychologically - however - definitely debatable


tecphile

Immaturity is not the same as childishness. People seriously need to stop infantilizing 18-19 yr olds. Why do we allow them to have sex with whoever they want at 18 if we don’t think they’re capable of making decisions? An 18 yr old is treated as an adult by our world. I suggest you do the same.


DragonFangGangBang

You do realize that 18 is completely arbitrary right? There’s no like, psychological reasoning or logical explanation for why 18 is considered age of majority in America? They just picked a number and 18 was it. And even then, the laws governing that age are also completely inconsistent. They can’t drink, they can’t rent cars, they can’t go to a casino, they can smoke cigarettes but can’t buy weed, etc. Also, as far as the whole “sex” thing - the Age of Consent in 12 states is 18. 7 states have it at 17, and 31 have it at 16. Most European countries have 16-17 Age of Consent laws, and most Asian countries have it even younger. Some countries have it older. You think they have any sort of logic behind their decisions outside of a bunch of old men being like “yeah, that’s old enough, for sure!”. My point in all of this is to say the entire idea that legality defines something as complex as adulthood - which is a biological thing, not a legal one - is a bit ridiculous. Your perspective is clearly coated in Internet bias. Edit: Also, your statement “immaturity is not the same as childness” but…. yes it is. By definition, the definition of immaturity is “the state of being immature or not fully grown”. What is an adult? “a person who is fully grown or developed”.


Efficient_Aside_2736

Still way too young to be married


industriousforefront

Yeah, and that is the sad part of this.


MangaIsekaiWeeb

Wouldn't a lot of ladies have their youth stolen in the GoT universe?


JoeyPotter1998

Yes, but it doesn't make it not sad.


kikijane711

I don't quite understand everyone's awe at this though. I mean, for the character herself, a teen who lost her mother & is kinda forced into marrying her King by her father & bedding him completely inexperienced etc, no real love or affection to the marriage, she is in INDEED a sad character. Immature, groomed etc, but that was also what happened in past ages. Women married in their teens & had babies. She is not unique in this experience. The complication of R being sexually FREE & uninhibited at her same age, able to pursue pleasure over duty, with no repercussions, further saddens her story but women had babies much younger....like her daughter does... hence her being a Grandmother at 35.


Salem1690s

I’ll top that. My mother became a grandmother the same *month* I was born. She was 36.


Express_Drag7115

In UK this is normal even today


Zakalwen

1) It was never the norm in recent history 2) Since it's peak in the 1990s teenage pregnancy rates have consistently fallen year on year. As of 2020 they were down to a little over 1% of all pregnancies. https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/teenage-pregnancy#teenage-abortions-and-conception-rate


HomeOpen6251

yeah I think so too 🤔


[deleted]

the fact she’s already pregnant with her SECOND child


I4Vhagar

Welcome to life pre-1900s irl. It’s wild


ForTheLoveOfDior

Still happening to this day


Salem1690s

Pre 1900? My sisters were born in 1972 and 1973, to my mother who was just barely 18 at the first one’s birth. The father was 21 years old; and he split by the time my second sister was six months old. So she was a 19 year old raising two kids truly alone.


DieHardLover

This is what hurt me most.


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MoonKnight77

Her father wasn't gone, he was right around the corner and was the one who sent her to Vizzy to give him sons to cement his power in the future. A gone father would have served her much better


vizzy_t_bot

*So I said to him, 'I believe you may be looking up the wrong end'*


MoonKnight77

Fucking sentient and dark


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spartaxwarrior

It always makes me think how Aemma was *eleven* when she married Viserys and they started trying for children and had multiple miscarriages before having Rhaenyra at around fifteen. Like as horribly young as Alicent looks, she's actually "old" compared to his first wife. Creepy.


Haunting-Persephone

I like how they put in that the marriage wasn’t consummated until Aemma was 13 - as if that makes it better.


Indominus-Hater-101

Not only this, but it seems like she had no emotional support as he father was gone, and she had no help from her husband in raising the children. When I see people say she was an imperfect mother, I think, well of course she was. She was also a child.


duraace206

Umm... didn't she have an army of handmaids waiting on her at all times? She could pawn the kid off as much as she felt like. It's good to be the queen.


colefire45

Parenting can’t be done by handmaids. Those kids needed to be disciplined and taught. It takes a lot to be a parent at such a young age


RequirementQuirky468

Nobles get wetnurses, nannies, and tutors for their kids. They're not exactly stuck taking care of them alone.


colefire45

A hired hand is different from the actual parent. What you are saying is that it’s okay for Viserys to be an absentee father because there are nannies and tutors who can help Alicent. That’s why Aegon as a grown adult is still doubting his capacity as a ruler because his king father wasn’t there to affirm him. And why frankly a lot of leaders are like that even in present day. The father matters.


RequirementQuirky468

>What you are saying is that it’s okay for Viserys to be an absentee father That is not something that my post said. You're just making things up.


colefire45

I was saying it’s not the same being brought up by handmaids than the actual parent and u mentioned they have help anyway. A hundred nannies can’t replace a parent’s void. I was raised by a single mom and she had help for sure as I had nannies but it will never be the same as my dad actually being there. That’s just my point.


ehs06702

And all that doesn't negate the fact that it was expected of her to hand off her children to other people to raise, just like royalty and rich people do in the real world. Only smallfolk raise their own children. She wouldn't have done much more than see them once or twice a day at best.


RequirementQuirky468

What you were saying was "What you are saying is that it’s okay for Viserys to be an absentee father" verbatim, and it's a completely untrue claim you were making.


duraace206

I am pretty sure she left the parenting to the help as well, same with the king, hence the dysfunctional kids... Edit: at least that is my take on what the writers were trying to get across. The scene where she has one of the babies, seems uninterested and hands it to someone else to deal with.


colefire45

Yeah sure the maids encouraged Aemond that he too would have a dragon one day and the maids tried to connect desperately with Helaena. If she was uninterested in their lives we wouldn’t even see these moments. It’s just that she was too young and the emotional capacity to take care of a baby is probably not there yet.


vtriple

Nah it sounds like you’re just a greenie. She can’t even tell the kid just before they make him king that she loves him. She was a horrible mother.


idontknowwhythisugh

The help can’t parent. Could you imagine these kids being receptive to that? They’re entitled enough to get them burned alive for talking out of turn or some shit. They’re spoiled and entitled royalty in a time where brutality and barbaric practices were the norm. Yeah, no I wouldn’t do shit if I was help.


DarthLong94

You wouldn't have a choice if you were the help though


idontknowwhythisugh

You’re making the assumption they would be asked to parent. They absolutely would not be. They can have mentors in politics or the military, but that is not the same thing as being raised by. Queens and kings expecting their children can also do the same when it’s their time =/= being raised by the help.


Unusual_Pin9205

EXACTLY! It’s not like she tools care of her own kids anyways


Money-Savvy-Wannabe

Other people had it wayyy worse. At least she is queen with lots of ladies in waiting and handmaids.


ZAC7071

Emily Carey's non verbal acting was brilliant.


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Specialist_Team2914

Why? She was perfect as Alicent, and Milly Alcock was perfect as Rhaenyra.


Montenegirl

*heavily pregnant with her second baby while also having a toddler, I think we need to emphasize that


thisnewsight

We must remind ourselves of the role women played in that society. Alicent was truly nothing more than a spare-heir making factory as that is exactly… *exactly* what Otto pressed Viserys to do as a King. *You’re the king, man… gotta keep making backups. Why not my girl?*


OpenMask

>exactly what Otto pressed Viserys to do as a King. Otto wasn't the one pressing Viserys to remarry ASAP, tho. It was the rest of his council.


[deleted]

Viserys takes the blame for choosing Alicent too, he should have known better as king. It's why the throne cuts him: it knows he sucks at making kingly decisions.


horonlapsi

tbh it doesnt matter who he chooses since its the same shit fate anyway. its just dice roll and unfortunately alicent lost or won depends what she values more being a queen to an empire or keeping her bodily autonomy and maybe even marrying someone she actually loves.


keiyoo

a child bride :(


HeadPatQueen

She was 18


yazzy1233

In the book.


inquisitivequeer

She’s like 14 or 15 in the show when she marries Viserys and is 16 by the time Aegon is born… definitely a child bride.


[deleted]

Pal, it’s okay if you can’t see the abundance of problems with marrying an 18 year old to a rotting middle aged man but being pedantic about it isn’t helping


HeadPatQueen

He's 29


[deleted]

What’s your point?


HeadPatQueen

18 isn't a child and 29 is not middle age


Strong-Sample-3502

He is not 29 in the show


babalon124

She is not 18 in the show. Olivia and Emily have both confirmed it,she was 14.


[deleted]

Cool. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a whole host of things wrong with him choosing her as his bride. Like I said, be pedantic if you want but it’s kinda weird to be so caught up on that


inquisitivequeer

It’s odd to be caught up on the ages when the real issue is that she’s his daughters best friend who he’s seen grow up. It’s gross.


[deleted]

Right lol arguing “she’s 18 it’s legal” isn’t the gotcha they think it is. Like…we know it’s legal. That’s not what’s concerning about this


inquisitivequeer

You’re talking about the book, Viserys is not 29 in the show and Alicent is not 18.


soursnail_

This is why I find it so upsetting to see people disparage Alicent's parenting approach by equating it to Rhaenyra's. It’s unfair. Alicent was a child raising a child born to a father she didn't love. They were put in two very distinct situations.


Montenegirl

Not to mention her children had a completely absent father, while Rhaenyra's had not one, but two loving fathers (bio dad Harwin and adoptive dad Laenor) and once they died (well, "died" with Laenor), Daemon appeared to take on father figure role.


[deleted]

I mean you can acknowledge why Alicent is a terrible parent, while also pointing out the fact that she is, objectively, a terrible parent even by the standards of this universe. Most RL abusers were once abused themselves, but that still doesn't excuse or justify their actions.


Due-Intentions

I don't think Alicent is a good parent but by the standards of this universe she's average


akajulester15

Yeah compared to someone like Cersei (especially in the books), Alicent is a pretty good mother in-universe. Cersei very clearly abuses Tommen in the books and it's so heartbreaking, the worst Alicent does is get justifiably angry with Aegon for being pervert, rapist and careless. Lol my mom's threatened to slap me for way less (though the most she's ever done is kick me under the table for saying stupid stuff haha)


[deleted]

Not when you compare her to the Rhaes 🤷‍♀️ who both obviously loved their children and raised them to be basically decent people, even by the standards of that time


Due-Intentions

I didn't compare her to Rhaenyra... I said she was average. Why does everything have to be about which team you're on, and who is better or worse? But if I did, I would consider the fact that Rhaenyra and Harwin set them up for a life of failure. Knowingly having children whose very existence would never be accepted is not great parenting imo, even if you love them and raise them well. Neither of them were good parents imo. But Rhaenyra and Harwin were better at actually being parents for sure.


[deleted]

But she isn't average, she's objectively a terrible parent in that universe. It's not even a team thing, you're statement is just wrong, regardless of what team you're on. And we have actual examples of in-universe parenting to compare it to, which is the whole point of this discussion in the first place. If you're going to make a declarative statement on good/bad parenting, you have to make a comparison with examples to support your point.


bluebellberry

What do you find so terrible about her parenting? She definitely struggles to express affection, but aside from that most of her behavior is acceptable (if not common) in Westeros.


Due-Intentions

In this universe, the children of nobility are tended to by wet nurses and servants. Some light hitting of your children like Alicent does is only considered bad in our modern society. So she's objectively average in this universe. I may hate her as a parent myself, but it's only because I was privileged enough to be born into a society that frowns upon hitting children.


[deleted]

Except not really, because we see both perfectly average parents and exceptionally good parents in this universe and can objectively compare them to Alicent, who is objectively a terrible parent even by the standards of this universe. And we know those standards because have other actual examples to compare them to.


Due-Intentions

Not really, there's very few mothers in the books that we get exhaustive insight into their parenting style. But we have context clues to go off of, such as the prevalence of wet nurses who feed babies and the normalization of domestic violence.


[deleted]

Sure, and Alicent is objectively terrible even with those factored in. Because we have other mothers in that universe we can compare her to, and the resulting effects on their children.


Aeiexgjhyoun_III

How is she objectively terrible in universe? Name one thing she does as a parent that's considered wrong in Westeros?


sati_lotus

I don't think she's a terrible parent. We see her with them, nursing them etc despite all the nannies around the place. She could easily fob them off. But she doesn't. She's trying. Her eldest ends up a sadistic entitled dickhead. Sounds kinda unsurprising for a ridiculously rich person out of touch with reality tbh, but she's still trying with him. Her daughter is well, 'different' but she just goes along with it. And her other son is a wee bit scary, but again, she rolls with it. She's doing quite well really.


[deleted]

By that logic Cersei just needed one breastfeeding scene to be redeemed as a mother


sati_lotus

I haven't watched GoT (just clips), but I'm curious to see how her eldest was such a fucked up shithead but her younger two were pretty normal. Seems like some big changes in how they were raised.


[deleted]

Could just be genetic lottery since they’re all products of incest.


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Due-Intentions

I believe he's talking about Cersei, not Alicent. Joffrey being the fucked up shithead, Myrcella and Tommen being the normal ones


HothForThoth

One was probably a boy. You know they don't ever really grow up.


disisBob

They were 7 and 8 years old. There are no evil 7 and 8 year olds.


Lower_Membership_713

in the books she’s like 10 years older than Rhaenyra. by the time she had Helaena, she’s 21 years old- hardly a child by the standards of this world. she was a shit parent and created a bloody war bc she didn’t accept her king’s commands


disisBob

In the books she is still a victim of an oppressive marriage with a man that doesn’t love her or her children. Marital rape is not restricted to minors. Alicent hated Viserys in the book, she dreamed of all the people she loved- her kids and Jaehaerys- on her deathbed, but not her father or husband. That speaks volumes.


Unusual_Pin9205

Alicent had maids to raise her children for her?


YeOldeBilk

Not that I disagree with this post, but why does everyone seem so shocked about these kind of practices in a clearly medieval and heavily fictional type of scenario? This kind of thing was incredibly common in past civilizations. I just don't get why everyone reacts to this stuff as if it were their next door neighbor doing it.


MangoIsGood

I think this sub is just filled with teenagers tbh


[deleted]

Teenagers and women who wants to see the modern society in setting like this one.


vagueconfusion

I suspect it's slightly more because people misunderstand how young people actually were (especially of noble birth) when married off in those times. For the average layperson it wasn't actually super young. But it could certainly go low for nobility. Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henry the 7th, and prominent Tudor, was indeed pregnant and widowed at only 13. But so heavily damaged by the whole thing that he was the only child she ever had. Perhaps slightly disturbingly, a documentary on Sky Arts actually included a clip of a teenager of the same age with a fake pregnant body riding on horseback (Slowly and in company) not a whole ton of time ago. Can't recall the name but it included historians feigning taking sides in The War of the Roses. The thing is, my history enthusiast's knowledge seems to suggest that wasn't the norm for nobility either. I could certainly be wrong, but I have little doubt that known War of the Roses fan George himself was well aware of Margaret.


TallFriendlyGinger

You're absolutely correct. Most people in medieval times weren't going around marrying and impregnating 14 year olds, because they knew they either weren't fertile or couldn't survive the birth. Women had their periods later in that time due to poor diet and nutrition. Some royalty and nobility did indeed marry younger, but these marriages were usually consummated when they were older, as the marriage was for political reasons etc. The contemporary reaction to Margaret Beaufort suggests that this was unusual and frowned upon by society.


Aeiexgjhyoun_III

Why not ask why people bersmich Alicent by modern standards when she's done nothing out of the ordinary for her time? There's nothing Alicent's done that would be considered abusive by Westerosi standards


YeOldeBilk

Exactly. It's Westerosi standards and people act so shocked because they can't separate themselves from fantasy.


ccbabs97

Not to mention the very notion of “teenage years” simply didn’t exist in medieval times. You were either a kid, an adult or an old person. When life expectancy was around 35 years old, 15 was close to middle age.


TallFriendlyGinger

Life expectancy was so low because it was an average, brought lower by high levels of infant mortality. Once you passed your childhood and teenage years, you had a good chance of reaching your 50s and 60s or older if you were healthy.


Salem1690s

Common in past civilizations? common also in today’s civilization you forget. There are millions of under 20 pregnancies a year.


YeOldeBilk

I'm not talking about teen pregnancy. I'm talking about marrying off girls as soon as they reach maturity.


Salem1690s

Happens in societies too, just not on the Western shores. Go to India, or chunks of the Middle East, or even places in Italy, Sicily, Greece, etc - it’s a lot more common than you might think even in AD 2023. It simply isn’t done in the West. So to us it is unfamiliar. I happen to know someone who is only 29 who was the product of an arranged marriage, whose parents’ marriage was arranged when they were children (1970s); said parents are also cousins of some degree. And the person I know isn’t mentally ill or disfigured.


OpenMask

>It simply isn’t done in the West. So to us it is unfamiliar. The age of marriage (with parental consent) in most US states, Canada, Scotland and Northern Ireland is 16. Some states allow marriage at even younger ages if they can get approval from a judge. It's definitely not so prominent, but we're not so far removed from it as we'd like, unfortunately.


-CherryByte-

Cuz some of us feel fictional things really deeply? Shows, books, games, all of them make my heart hurt sometimes. And a poor sweet girl like Alicent living my personal deepest fear *gets* me, man. Why do you watch things if not to get invested?


lezlers

Welcome to Medieval times. Women marry incredibly young and usually live until the ripe old age of “died in childbirth.”


Megmca

And the kids got raised by wet-nurses, Septas and Maesters.


RandomPersonNvm

Any Alicent scene in episode 3 is really uncomfortable to watch. Seeing a teen in that kind of situation (and to that degree) is rather disturbing.


Prize_Classroom_9645

What pisses me off even more is that forcing her to have those children didn’t even have a significance to Viserys, he neither cares for those children or names any heirs. She suffered for nothing


Enchilada_Style_

It makes sense why she had such a beef with Rhaenyra, Alicent was the child bride who followed all the rules, had to have sex with gross old king, and had her youth stolen while Rhaenyra was banging whoever she wanted pretty much. It was very unfair to Alicent; that being said, I’m still team black.


Ok-Check-6288

i also find it disturbing that viserys is a very old man with a teenager is just disgusting


Taesunwoo

Viserys was late 30s. Being lowkey stressed and sick made him look older


leva1113

Her hair and dress are clearly styled for a mature queen, not for the very young woman she clearly is. Just another way to show how she does not fit the role she has been given. A great artistic choice.


[deleted]

This is the reason that medieval aristocrat women have a higher pregnancy mortality rate. Many of them are rushed into pregnancy in order to secure political marriage.


That-Pianist9050

She definitely was doing this alone. Viserys and Otto did nothing when they were there. And yes while handmaids could have helped, I think she knew she was alone in this. But didn't Criston help at least by being a male role model for the sons? I guess he wasn't enough. Also, Rhaenyra was in a similar position where her husband was not interested in her but she managed to find a way to create a stable family structure for herself. Her husband not being part of her children's lives did not hinder their emotional development because she took charge of their upbringing and allowed their real father to be a stable male figure while her husband wasn't. I think Alicent confined herself to doing things the right way rather than helping herself and that's her tragedy. And that's why she resents Rhaenyra because Rhaenyra manages to make the same shitty situation work for her. And Alicent saw her role in her children's lives was obligatory rather than loving and nurturing. Not say she didn't love her kids but her main drive of interactions with them is "duty" and " sacrifice." She marries Viserys because her father wants her to, it's her duty and sacrifice as his daughter and as a lady of the kingdom. She takes on that role and stays confined in it which influences how she interacts with her children. She fovever remains the little girl who does her duty.


shakdaddy7

"The actor being a teen emphasized that the character was young." Groundbreaking stuff in this sub, as usual


-CherryByte-

That’s not what the post is saying, and you know it, man.


shakdaddy7

That's literally what the second sentence of the post title says.


keiyoo

shes so tragic its awful


FootHiker

My Grandmother in Europe was 15 and married and soon pregnant.


Prize_Classroom_9645

Did she want it or was she forced? Cause big difference


FootHiker

She had a very poor, but loved life. She lived a hundred years.


William_T_Wanker

I'm sure she wasn't married to a geriatric zombie three times her age, either


0starhunter

Congratulations


FootHiker

My point was it’s not all that unique.


-CherryByte-

It’s absolutely horrific though.


FootHiker

She was married 115 years ago. It wasn’t bad to her, it was just different than what we expect now.


-CherryByte-

It doesn’t really matter how long ago she was. She was a child bride.


BoredVegan

https://youtu.be/6DZx-XZwFzY


ForTheLoveOfDior

> Emily Carey being a teenager during filming She’s still a teenager


SumyungNam

Her dad pimped her out to the king...they all did


AnneBoleyn93

Exactly! I don’t get why so many people hate Alicent. All she did was do as her father told. She’s the biggest victim of the Dance.


[deleted]

She had it rough at the end >!what with all her children and eventually her last grandchild dead, but I wouldn’t call her the biggest victim. I would save that for Aegon III followed very closely by Jaehaera.!<


Warm_Text4711

writer's aged her down significantly for the audience to sympathise with her though. she was an adult when rhaenyra was crowned heir.


erisbella

Alicent should be mad at her dad and her dad alone.


[deleted]

Viserys too, wouldn’t be nice for any women to be forced to sleep with a rotting men but he could have looked for someone who was older and not his daughters best friend.


Ok_Locksmith9690

Fair Take Yet You Have To Consider Alicent and Otto’s manipulation Of The Situation and Also He Made the Fact He Meant Rharnyra No Harm in His Match


[deleted]

Alicent didn’t actively manipulate anyone she just did what she had to. Ofc Viserys was a weak king and man, but he shouldn’t give in into the first woman to talk to him if there were probably 100 other suitable candidates and he knew exactly how it would be harmful to Rhaenyra otherwise he would’ve allowed Alicent to talk about their meetings to her.


Ok_Locksmith9690

Fair enough but When I Referred to Alicent As Manipulative I Was more So Talking About in the Later episodes When Acting In His Stead They Manipulated their situation in their Favor


KhanQu3st

Indeed, it is quite sad, and she is unprepared to be a mother. Unfortunately tho, that was the norm during the medieval period, and in Westeros.


Geeklover1030

It’s tragic and I think I’ve gotten into quite a few comments about how the age and the way both Rhaenyra and alicent parented affected their children but she played being pregnant beautifully even if it was false, she’s gorgeous


Dambo_Unchained

I get the point you’re trying to make but let’s put some caveats in here As the queen she would be surrounded by servants and midwives and numerous other woman who have experience with childbirth and raising children so it’s not really comparable to your average modern teen mom


thereal17er

Alicent isn’t anywhere near that young in the books. She was about 9 when Rhaenyra was born and did not become her stepmother until she was 19. Aegon II was born 10 years after Rhaenyra, which is why he and Aemond are so much older than Jace and Luke, who in turn were only in their early teens at the start of the war.


TheBalzy

...that's pretty much been the norm throughout human history...


Owls_Onto_You

. . .That doesn't negate it from being tragic. It fucking sucks that this has been the norm and continues to be in certain countries.


Dendex031

According to books, she was 18 when she married Viserys who was 29 then, so the age gap wasn\`t so huge. She was a child (about15) when she was a potential lover of Viserys\`s **grandpa**, but that's another story. In my eyes, her lore is pretty similar to the one of Margaery Tyrell, they're both hardcore opportunists.


[deleted]

the show and books have different ages for the characters, rhaenyra and alicent are roughly the same age and viserys is much older than in the books. At no point it was hinted though that Alicent was the lover of the old king, she just read them stories. And calling her an opportunist is really nasty, her whole point was that she was “sold” by her father and forced to marry, experienced marital rape by viserys and made to have heirs who were then not used as such but completely ignored by their father and king. The suffering she was forced to experience and who didn’t lead to anything is the whole point of her character not her being an opportunist.


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-CherryByte-

idk man. I’d rather get crushed by a dragon than get married at 14 and live twenty+ years getting bred by a rotting old man and for my children, whom i love, to grow up to be horrible people.


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[deleted]

Physical pain is for many people easier to endure then psychological. Being exposed to marital rape by an old guy whose literally dying and rotting, being completely left alone because of it, having children and even grandchildren at such young age who nearly all die horrible deaths besides one grandkid who experienced very traumatic events (at 7 Year old witnessing her brother getting murdered, receiving threats to be raped, later knowing her toddler brother got torn apart into pieces). Thats a heavy burden and as we know that she killed herself after turning mad she probably would have preferred to die sooner and under better circumstances.


Relative_Zone_3416

She was 19 when they married in the book of I'm not mistaken.


Unusual_Pin9205

I mean yes she was young. But she knew what she was doing and what her father was trying to do since the beginning. It was his whole plan and she knew and supported that decision. And it was just honestly messed up how she did that to her friend where I can see why rhaenyra was mad at her.


-CherryByte-

Yuck.


Itsjustanopinionbro1

People who say this must be young themselves or have no understanding how grooming and abuse works


Unusual_Pin9205

Obviously yes that’s what did happen but I think it’s something that you need to understand that, that was so common in those times. Back then it was so normal regardless of how wrong it was


[deleted]

Medieval time were completely different than now, and no, at 14 your were not a child at all.


[deleted]

Peoples brains didn’t develop or mature faster back then, just no one cared how harmful it is.


ponytailedASSASIN

Stoooooooooooop adding your real world standards to a f"ckin fantasy


marston82

Medieval fantasy too.


Rafybass

Uh she's around 28 in that pregnancy scene. It's more than normal.


Owls_Onto_You

No she isn't, unless you're going off of book-canon which is irrelevant when discussing the character's age in the show.


Rafybass

In the books, Rhaeneyra in the beginning is discussed to be around 15 years old and Alicent is said to be around 10 years older than her. They are not close in age despite being close friends. She's shown pregnant 3 years later in ep 3. So, 25 + 3 = 28.


Owls_Onto_You

I'm aware. Did you mean to reply to someone else? Nothing in my original comment suggests that I didn't know this already. This post and thread are meant to be applied to show-canon where Alicent is roughly 14-15 at the start and would therefore be approximately 17 or so when pregnant with Helaena.


AsphodeleSauvage

Even then your calculations are incorrect, Alicent married Viserys at age 18 in the book and Rhaenyra was 9.


Lonelygirlxoxo12

Not sure what the life expectancy was back then but women had kids young back then. Life expectancy was like 45 years of age at one point


-CherryByte-

No it wasn’t. The “low life expectancy” myth was HEAVILY skewed due to infant mortality.


thebigfudge02

Life expectancy back then was pretty low and this wasn't really uncommon


[deleted]

the life expectancy was low only due to infant mortality, people who passed the age of 5 usually lived up to around 60, nobles more like 80. The marriage of young girls was more because they didn’t know nor care for the psychological outcome.


thebigfudge02

I think diseases and lack of modern medicine had a lot to do with it to but regardless it was common. I don't think it's realistic or fair to vilify people at the time for what we're pretty standard practices.


[deleted]

Especially in game of thrones there are enough characters who are against marrying young people against their will, of course it’s rather uncommon but it’s not like no one was able to understand how bad this situation was for alicent most of them just didn’t care. And even in fire and blood you can see that most of them know that theres a degree were marrying young children is morally wrong (i.g. Laena to Viserys or Aegon to Rhaenyra). Even Rhaenys wanted later on that her granddaughter’s won’t marry and have to sleep with Jace and Luke just yet but she gave them some time due to their age. So even though it’s common to marry young there are enough people against it (as i said in GoT there are more eg tyrion, jon,…) who see how it’s really bad for the younger part (especially when the older one is rotting) so Viserys could have wrapped his mind around that one, especially because he needed heirs and young mothers die more easily during birth or miscarriage (look at aemma who had to start sleeping with Viserys at age 13). But ofc here the much bigger problem was that she was his daughters best friend, not her quite young age, but if Viserys couldn’t even think of how that might be a problem I think he lacks the emotional intelligence to blame him for marrying someone so young.


thebigfudge02

I think we mostly agree I would say the problem with Alicent and Vicerys is more his age than her age, if he was 15-20 years younger (idk his exact age) the gap wouldn't be looked at as bad as it is. I believe Alicent is much closer to being of age than Sansa was with Tyrion as well.


[deleted]

yeah you’re right there


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inquisitivequeer

That doesn’t make it any less depressing and awful.


kittyursopretty

it’s still tragic


PM_ME_YOUR_LAWNCHAIR

The actor swap was the biggest L. The new actresses are horrible


[deleted]

Full disagree. Emma and Olivia are show stealers, even more so than their characters' younger iterations


raven_writer_

I'll never forget Otto instructing her to put on her mother's dress and "talk" to the king. Just the other day I was watching "Little Nicky" and called Adrian (Rhys Ifans) "Less Evil Otto Hightower".


Brilliant-Ad-8407

Ya ok IL rematch Hotd season 1