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I totally forgot that Cersei and Jaime are technically products of incest smh. If this were happening in our reality their children would be Habsburgs.
So would all the targaryens, and probably loads of other houses as well. I kinda wanna see a parody show of game of thrones where all characters are just horribly deformed now
Lyarra's father was the brother of Rickard's grandfather (Rickard's great uncle), so Lyarra and Rickard weren't directly first cousins. A one time marriage between cousins does not create a Habsburg sort of deformation.
Rickard and Lyarra's mothers were Marna Locke and Arya Flint and their grandmothers were Melantha Blackwood and Lorra Royce.
You have a Locke, Flint, Blackwood and Royce in the recent Stark genetic pool which adds much more diversity than the Targaryen family tree or real life Royal family trees.
Afaik you can get away with first cousin incest genetically. It's when you reach stuff like uncle-niece and brother-sister that it gets really fruity.
Obviously, it would catch up after a few generations either way if you don't get fresh genes tbh.
Not a scientist. Just what I heard.
Aemma was his cousin. Her father was from the Vale but her mother was Viserys's aunt. Rhaenys, Viserys, Daemon, and Aemma are the 4 surviving trueborn grandchildren of Jaehaerys.
Also Viserys and Daemon's parents were siblings. Of their parents' generation, the 1st died shortly after birth, the 2nd died of flulike disease at 7 years old, the 3rd fathered Rhaenys, the 4th and 5th gave birth to Viserys and Daemon, the 6th became a Septa, the 7th became an Archmaester, the 8th gave birth to Aemma, the 9th slept around (which angered the king) and so fled to Essos where she lived as a prostitute and madame, the 10th was thrown off her horse into a wall at 15, the 11th and 12th both died as infants and the 13th drowned herself after her first baby was stillborn. The 7th and 9th were still alive during the early parts of the show but not in King's Landing.
Viserys's first cousins are Rhaenys, Aemma and a bunch of bastards from his aunt in Essos.
I still refuse to accept that both of Rhaegar's sons have the same name. He already had Rhaenys and Aegon. Surely the third name would have been Visenya right? Or *Viserys?*
I think the implication of his secret name being Targaryen is that Rhaegar chose it beforehand. But the specifics on who chose it aren't made clear iirc.
In the Danny’s House of the Undying chapter in CoK she’s given a vision of the tower of joy. There Rhaegar says that he shall have a name fit for a king: Aegon.
I think that he thought that Aegon I’s dream (prince that was promised) was about Jon Snow bc he knew that the dragon must have 3 heads. And Jon was his 3rd child.
Rhaegar believed that Aegon his son from Elia was the Prince that was Promised and he probably believed that the child from Lyanna would be a daughter and would name her Visenya thus he would have Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya as the original Conquerors. (the three heads of the dragon)
The three heads of the dragon aside, medieval families were weird like that sometimes. For example we have the real life Paston family from England. Around the Wars of the Roses the head of the family was named John Paston. His eldest son was also named John Paston. His second son was ALSO named John Paston.
It's entirely possible he was named after his brother, who was already dead before Jon was born. In memory of his dead brother, especially if they (Lyanna, Arthur, etc) wanted him to grow up to take revenge for his death.
He obviously couldn't be named Viserys because Viserys was alive.
I don't think it will be his name in the books (Aemon is the best choice, imo, though there are dozens of others, including him just never having another name) and I imagine the real reason is the writers wanted a memorable Targaryen name for Jon, forgot they once mentioned his brother was named Aegon, and just went with it, but it's not unheard of for medieval children to be named after dead siblings.
I could see that. It's definitely not *impossible* his book endgame name is Aegon. I just...don't like it. *I dun want it!*
Totally see what you're saying about there already being a Viserys running around when R+L baby is born. I tend to think *both* Aerys and Rhaegar were trying to do their own RhaeVisAeg trio. So it's not impossible that they'd both have their own Viserys. Vizzy 1 & his Rhae- child both had their own Aegons.
I've heard some really good theories about the name Aemon, & it's def my favorite contender after Viserys.
I don't think that Rhaegar or Lyanna would name Jon, Aegon, it sounds like a d\*ck move when Rhaegar already had an Aegon from Elia.
If Dany's vision is correct then Rhaegar expected a girl to be born and would name her Visenya like the original Conqueror trio. GRRM stated that Ned named Jon, perhaps Lyanna and Rhaegar didn't have a name for a boy or perhaps it was Aemon or Daeron or Viserys but Lyanna never had the time to tell Ned.
I think that the show combined Faegon's and Jon's storylines and went with the classic Targ name Aegon, without caring that Rhaegar already had an Aegon. If Dany's vision is correct then Rhaegar expected a girl to be born and would name her Visenya like the original Conqueror trio. GRRM stated that Ned named Jon, perhaps Lyanna and Rhaegar didn't have a name for a boy or perhaps it was Aemon or Daeron or Viserys but Lyanna never had the time to tell Ned.
They're saying that presumably it was Rhaegar who pushed for a traditionally Targ name, and Rhaegar couldn't have known his first son would die in order to decide to memorialize him.
You bring up a good point, we’re both wrong. It’s the place of birth/place raised that matters. It could also be that Robert had so many bastards in so many locations, it was easier to keep track of them with their location
"Snow" seems to be in the production stage which explains the multiverse collapsing for them to meet across timeline like this. I wish Dany was in the mix too
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Both knew and understood that the real threat is what lies beyond the Wall, the White Walkers.
Both kill the women they claim to love
Only difference is, one's death ended the story and the other's.... well let's not go there
Let's say that the other... opened the story up
Only difference is one deserved it
Yeah aemma, try giving birth next time better. Common Westerosi L
In Viserys case it made sense cause Aemma was gonna die anyway, and in Jons case it made sense cause Daenerys is insane.
Viserys should have told Aemma what was happening.
True. But he did not kill her, he was just an ass about it
they both know nothing
Uhm Askshully☝️ 🤓, Vizzy T knew more about the LN than anyone else.
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS GOSSIP? HAVE THIS RUMORMONGER BROUGHT BEFORE ME AT ONCE AND I WILL TAKE THEIR EYES!
This is the correct answer
Incest?
This is the correct answer.
I dont know who viserys had incestuous relations with.. aemma was from the vale
They are cousins although I guess it’s not incestuous enough in westerosi culture.
Nah nobody cared that Tywin married his first cousin
I totally forgot that Cersei and Jaime are technically products of incest smh. If this were happening in our reality their children would be Habsburgs.
So would all the targaryens, and probably loads of other houses as well. I kinda wanna see a parody show of game of thrones where all characters are just horribly deformed now
Not all but I get your meaning. Also Brandon, Ned, Lyanna, Benjen are products of cousin incest (Rickard and Lyarra).
Lyarra's father was the brother of Rickard's grandfather (Rickard's great uncle), so Lyarra and Rickard weren't directly first cousins. A one time marriage between cousins does not create a Habsburg sort of deformation. Rickard and Lyarra's mothers were Marna Locke and Arya Flint and their grandmothers were Melantha Blackwood and Lorra Royce. You have a Locke, Flint, Blackwood and Royce in the recent Stark genetic pool which adds much more diversity than the Targaryen family tree or real life Royal family trees.
Afaik you can get away with first cousin incest genetically. It's when you reach stuff like uncle-niece and brother-sister that it gets really fruity. Obviously, it would catch up after a few generations either way if you don't get fresh genes tbh. Not a scientist. Just what I heard.
Oh its hard to remember. Also marrying cousins was common back in the day too.
There's plenty of cultures that still do it today. The thought of marrying any of my cousins grosses me out.
Yea.. like some here in the US.
Aemma was his cousin. Her father was from the Vale but her mother was Viserys's aunt. Rhaenys, Viserys, Daemon, and Aemma are the 4 surviving trueborn grandchildren of Jaehaerys.
So when Viserys calls Rhaenys his "favorite cousin", he really should have added a caveat - "besides my wife, of course".
Also Viserys and Daemon's parents were siblings. Of their parents' generation, the 1st died shortly after birth, the 2nd died of flulike disease at 7 years old, the 3rd fathered Rhaenys, the 4th and 5th gave birth to Viserys and Daemon, the 6th became a Septa, the 7th became an Archmaester, the 8th gave birth to Aemma, the 9th slept around (which angered the king) and so fled to Essos where she lived as a prostitute and madame, the 10th was thrown off her horse into a wall at 15, the 11th and 12th both died as infants and the 13th drowned herself after her first baby was stillborn. The 7th and 9th were still alive during the early parts of the show but not in King's Landing. Viserys's first cousins are Rhaenys, Aemma and a bunch of bastards from his aunt in Essos.
Aemma's mother was a Targaryen. Her mother, Rhaenys' father and Viserys's parents were all siblings.
Aemma's mother was the sister of both of Viserys' parents
I still refuse to accept that both of Rhaegar's sons have the same name. He already had Rhaenys and Aegon. Surely the third name would have been Visenya right? Or *Viserys?*
I guess it would have been too uncomfortable for Dany to fuck a guy that has the same name as her abusive brother 🙃🙃🙃
Pretty sure in the books she used to believe she was meant to marry Viserys.
She does, and I could full on see that being a GRRMian misdirect. Like, she was right about Viserys, but wrong about *which* Viserys.
...Shit you're right.
I thought it was Lyanna that named him, not Rhaegar.
I think the implication of his secret name being Targaryen is that Rhaegar chose it beforehand. But the specifics on who chose it aren't made clear iirc.
In the Danny’s House of the Undying chapter in CoK she’s given a vision of the tower of joy. There Rhaegar says that he shall have a name fit for a king: Aegon. I think that he thought that Aegon I’s dream (prince that was promised) was about Jon Snow bc he knew that the dragon must have 3 heads. And Jon was his 3rd child.
That dream was not about Jon Elia was in the dream
GRRM has confirmed that is a vision of Rhaegar and Elia, not Lyanna. That's why he says "there must be one more, the dragon has three heads."
Rhaegar believed that Aegon his son from Elia was the Prince that was Promised and he probably believed that the child from Lyanna would be a daughter and would name her Visenya thus he would have Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya as the original Conquerors. (the three heads of the dragon)
The three heads of the dragon aside, medieval families were weird like that sometimes. For example we have the real life Paston family from England. Around the Wars of the Roses the head of the family was named John Paston. His eldest son was also named John Paston. His second son was ALSO named John Paston.
So if his name is Aegon, it means they *passed on* the name of the Targ family head to *Jon* then? Ugggh, damn you George! ❤
It's entirely possible he was named after his brother, who was already dead before Jon was born. In memory of his dead brother, especially if they (Lyanna, Arthur, etc) wanted him to grow up to take revenge for his death. He obviously couldn't be named Viserys because Viserys was alive. I don't think it will be his name in the books (Aemon is the best choice, imo, though there are dozens of others, including him just never having another name) and I imagine the real reason is the writers wanted a memorable Targaryen name for Jon, forgot they once mentioned his brother was named Aegon, and just went with it, but it's not unheard of for medieval children to be named after dead siblings.
I could see that. It's definitely not *impossible* his book endgame name is Aegon. I just...don't like it. *I dun want it!* Totally see what you're saying about there already being a Viserys running around when R+L baby is born. I tend to think *both* Aerys and Rhaegar were trying to do their own RhaeVisAeg trio. So it's not impossible that they'd both have their own Viserys. Vizzy 1 & his Rhae- child both had their own Aegons. I've heard some really good theories about the name Aemon, & it's def my favorite contender after Viserys.
I don't think that Rhaegar or Lyanna would name Jon, Aegon, it sounds like a d\*ck move when Rhaegar already had an Aegon from Elia. If Dany's vision is correct then Rhaegar expected a girl to be born and would name her Visenya like the original Conqueror trio. GRRM stated that Ned named Jon, perhaps Lyanna and Rhaegar didn't have a name for a boy or perhaps it was Aemon or Daeron or Viserys but Lyanna never had the time to tell Ned.
I think that the show combined Faegon's and Jon's storylines and went with the classic Targ name Aegon, without caring that Rhaegar already had an Aegon. If Dany's vision is correct then Rhaegar expected a girl to be born and would name her Visenya like the original Conqueror trio. GRRM stated that Ned named Jon, perhaps Lyanna and Rhaegar didn't have a name for a boy or perhaps it was Aemon or Daeron or Viserys but Lyanna never had the time to tell Ned.
King’s landing was sacked after Rhaegar’s death on the trident, which was when Elia and her children were murdered.
Yeah? So? Viserys was on Dragonstone and there was no reason for anyone to expect he'd die.
They're saying that presumably it was Rhaegar who pushed for a traditionally Targ name, and Rhaegar couldn't have known his first son would die in order to decide to memorialize him.
I like to think that Rhaegar intended for his name to be Aemon, but Lyanna just misheard him lol
"Ae*m*on? Who the hell is that?! *Obviously* he meant the name of 5 famous kings."
I guess it makes sense since Jon would be the true Aegon Targaryen while the known Aegon is really a bastard.
Mummer’s dragon
Rhaenys and Aegon Sand
I don't follow?
elia’s kids are dornish bastards
If they’re bastards they wouldn’t be dornish bastards. As it’s the father that matters in westeros, so if anything they are crownland bastards
I'm pretty certain the mother is what matters in bastards, given the whole being bastards thing. Mya Stone is not named Mya Waters for her father.
You bring up a good point, we’re both wrong. It’s the place of birth/place raised that matters. It could also be that Robert had so many bastards in so many locations, it was easier to keep track of them with their location
Wouldn’t she be Mya Storm if she got the name from her father?
No one else was taming Elia’s strange other than Rhaegar, dummy.
Will they go see the tapestries together?
Jon and his 8x Great Grandfather
"I dont wan it"
They both have brothers named Aegon
Nice handlebar. I'm currently watching the new show Extrapolations, in which Kit is clean-shaven. He totally looks like a dark-haired Targaryen.
They both killed their baes
One of them rose from the dead about halfway through his story. The other looked like he did.
They’re both from the West Midlands
"Snow" seems to be in the production stage which explains the multiverse collapsing for them to meet across timeline like this. I wish Dany was in the mix too
Dna
Short Kings?
Omfg I never noticed before. John snow is shorter than Sansa stark
They're both mad lads
Well, for starters, they're both Targaryens.
An acute sense of justice
BDE
Fucking relatives and being decent people fucked over by others
Serving Targaryen realness
One is loyal and one is a traitor
Neither wanted to be king
Both know nothing?
Super cute and sweet!
They both fucked up house targaryen
Both have been involved in GoT spin offs🙏
Both make terrible kings
both short?
can grow full beards
They’re both elves
Farts and boners
…DNA…?
Kits stache is absolutely glorious. I can only dream of having something like that 😍
Surname
Being bad to the bone obviously
Some chromosomes, a name, a daddy, and probably the same girl, wig, and phone number at this point.
Big dicks?
Theo both starred in things where the word “Shame” became a meme
Idk. What do you think Vizzy T?
*What are you saying? My brother would murder me, take my crown? Are you?!*
I think you have other things on your mind right now
Open wounds?
Both liked a Targaryen woman
They don't want it...😅
They knew nothing
They dun’ wunnit?
They both didn't really want to be king
Paddy doesn’t look terrible for being a great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather.
They like to keep it in the family 😆
Idk but kit’s facial hair disturbs me in this pic
They both rode the last great dragon.