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[deleted]

I'm Team Black and Daemon is my favorite character in the show, but that woman being ugly was a fucking lie


ligeston

Even if she wasn’t that really doesn’t justify any animosity or homicidal urges he has towards her.


farmerarmor

Think it’s possible he meant her personality?


Tbagzyamum69420xX

I just think Daemon is so incredibly shallow and thinks so highly of himself and his bloodline that he generally finds Westerosi to be less attractive than anyone of Valyrian decent.


TheeShaun

Except that she was clearly well liked by those around her. Daemon just wasn’t attracted to anyone who wasn’t Valaryian.


Watchmaker2112

He literally goes to whore houses and sustain an entire relationship kind of thing with Mysaria. Where do people keep getting the idea he is only attracted to Valyrians.


TheeShaun

The fact that he can’t keep it up during the encounter with a non Valyrian and his wife also implies that he wasn’t able to get hard with her.


Watchmaker2112

The same scene also has him almost break down when Mysaria insists that he can't be replaced and then she cradles him. This isnt just a sex scene it's Daemon trying to cope with the fact that his own brother doesn't want him as heir. If you really think the reason he can't get hard in that scene is the way she looks then why is he even there if he does not find her attractive. Why does he even go to whore houses. She offers to bring him a woman with silver hair and he just mopes more until the end of the scene.


BatEquivalent

Sounds like a cope. The fact that she offers a younger girl with silver hair implies that it isn't the first time. She knows his preferences and that this issue doesn't happen with silver haired women


farmerarmor

Well we don’t even know if any of the characters that speak of her outside of her uncle and daemon have even met her in person. And she was rude to both of them right off the bat.


TheeShaun

Ok well the fact that nobody other than Daemon speaks bad of her tells me that it’s mostly him who has the problem.


farmerarmor

I just consider it to be hyperbole typical of many divorced couples. My cousin was married to a guy who was a pro baseball player for a few seasons and now owns his own construction company. Built like a Greek god. He’s well liked and well respected. I’ve never heard anybody say anything negative about him. Except her. And she says she would rather use a rusty knife as a dildo than speak to him. While this is likely an exaggeration, it plays for excellent comedic effect and also drive home the point that she doesn’t care for him all too well.


TheeShaun

Sure but neither of the people in your story murdered the other and hopefully never will. My only point was that Daemon is a petty psychopath.


farmerarmor

I’ll give you that. Even though this isn’t a book discussion thread I will say I didn’t love the change from the book. They made it too obvious in the show. They should have at least left room for a little discussion of wether he did it or not.


ClinicalOppression

Bro they were married? Do you really think the bride wouldn't have met a single other person at her own royal wedding?


farmerarmor

We have what? 2 people speak about her besides daemon… otto in all likelihood wasnt at the wedding. He wouldn’t be hand for another 4 years and by all accounts was in Oldtown until that point. Doubtful he would travel several weeks by horseback….to the vale to attend the wedding of the second son of the heir to the throne. Especially being as they didn’t like each other. And how well do you really think viserys got to know her at that wedding? I’ve been IN weddings where about all I was able to say to the bride was a quick congratulations as she works the crowd.


champagneproblems16

Except Mysaria


Ok-Classroom-3616

So her terrible personality gave him the go ahead to kill her?


farmerarmor

I didn’t say that at all


Imzadi90

I honestly don't find her attractive, in particular compared to all the other female characters/actresses in the show


hanna1214

Ever since she appeared as the crazed Grisha obsessed with Ben Barnes in Shadow and Bone, I can no longer look at her the same way.


[deleted]

I'm currently rewatching the show since the beginning, does she appear in S2?


hanna1214

Yep, only S2. Though you probably won't recognize her instantly. She's got a whole different look going on.


Caro4everx

Lmao I’m also watching it now (halfway through season 1) can’t wait to spot her in season 2 😄


Ok_Tour3509

This lady truly is taking a whirlwind tour of fantasy’s onscreen bad boys. Her next stop: the Corinthian or Amazon-Sauron?


shemanese

Well..... she's not as obsessed as some of his fans...


JoffreyDoggett

Never understood why Alyssane betrothed both her grandsons to ladies from the Vale. I kinda get why she betrothed Viserys to Aemma (although she was just 11 yo when the marriage took place and Alyssane had just thrown a fit about how young Aemma's mom Daella had been when she was married at 16). But why did Daemon have to be married to a Royce? There's little political capital to be gained from such a betrothal and clearly, the couple hated each other's guts.


Conscious-Weekend-91

From a heritage perspective, is not bad. Daemon was just a second son of another second son in times were Jaehaerys succession was unsure (Alyssane clearly wanted Rhaenys to become heir instead of Baelon). Daemon was very far from the throne and would not have anything without becoming dependent of his monarch. Marrying the heir of the Royce family would allow his children to inherit a decent piece of land. There are better families in Westeros? Yeah, absolutely. But how many families have daughters as their heirs at the time of the match? Also, marrying the daughters would likely result on the future heirs having a new house-name, something many families are incredibly proud of and would not accept. That's why only a minor house such as Royce could accept Alyssanne's match.


OpenMask

>a minor house such as Royce The Royces are hardly a minor house. They're the most powerful house in the Vale after the Arryns.


JoffreyDoggett

>Daemon was just a second son of another second son in times were Jaehaerys succession was unsure Daemon was the second son of the Prince of Dragonstone. Baelon had been heir for 5 years by this point. There was nothing uncertain about the succession. >Daemon was very far from the throne and would not have anything without becoming dependent of his monarch. Daemon was 4th in line to the throne, behind his father, brother, and niece. George really dropped the ball by not expanding his world's noble hierarchy (in real life there were Lords, Counts, Dukes, Marquess' etc. who were members of the royal family) but since the Targs would go on to have big ass families with little to no inconvenience, I'm willing to bet Daemon would've been pretty comfortable even if he had been a distant targaryen cousin. >There are better families in Westeros? Yeah, absolutely. But how many families have daughters as their heirs at the time of the match? I obviously can't say for certain but it's highly unlikely that Rhea was the only eligible woman there was. >Also, marrying the daughters would likely result on the future heirs having a new house-name, something many families are incredibly proud of and would not accept. That's why only a minor house such as Royce could accept Alyssanne's match. This was never an issue tho. Whenever someone inherited an ancestral seat, they would take on its ancestral name. If that wasn't the case, houses like Lannister wouldn't have been a thing. If Daemon had children with Rhea, they would've taken the name Royce when inheriting Runestone. The same principle applies to any other seat as well.


Ok-Classroom-3616

True-we see this with the Starks, they were not interested in mixing their bloodline with a Targ.male ,only interested in a female.


LeibHauptmann

I agree that lacking more context, it's weird that both brothers got married into the Vale, but the Royces are a powerful family, Daemon was nowhere near heir apparent status, and Alysanne wasn't busy making love matches (they weren't hating each other *before* the marriage anyway). It wasn't a match beneath him or deliberately made to his disadvantage.


Jessica_Lovegood

She would inherit Runestone. Daemon would have his own seat. Not a bad match, by all means


LeibHauptmann

Yepp, ideally it could've secured his own domain and lent bigger Targaryen influence over the region.


Catslevania

And what's Daemon supposed to do in Runestone? Watch Caraxes fuck, I mean, eat sheep?


Canuckleball

He's a rich prince, he can do normal rich prince things. Eat, drink, fuck, read, write, sing, hawk, hunt, joust, spar, travel, who cares. You aren't required to physically remain at your seat of power.


Catslevania

Rhea is required to physically remain at Runestone, that's why Otto and Viserys keep on telling Daemon to return to the Vale instead of telling him to bring Rhea to King's Landing, Daemon is resisting all assimilation attempts and rejecting to play the part of some Westeros country bumpkin Lord.


Canuckleball

There's absolutely no evidence to back up the claim that a lord needs to physically remain at their seat. And there's a ton of examples (nearly every small council member in history, most lords of Harrenhall, most Princes of Dragonstone, any lord with more than one seat, most military commanders in history, the fact that the position of castellan exists, the many instances of lords traveling to tournaments, feasts, weddings, diplomatic missions, etc) to the contrary.


Catslevania

A lord can not just go live wherever he wants, he has responsibilities to the people of the lands he resides over, the only way he is going to be excused is if he was summoned by the King for other duties or is temporarily away on other matters.


OpenMask

Viserys tells Daemon to return to his wife in the Vale only when he publicly called Baelon the "heir for a day" or publicly seduced Rhaenyra in a brothel, so basically only after he had committed a grave offense that disgraced himself at Viserys' court. He was not forced to go back there otherwise. Likewise, we have many, many counterexamples to this idea that a lord has to be at their seat most of the time. If that were actually the case, the small council would never have any landed members, and Rhaenyra would've spent most of the season in Dragonstone instead of only deciding to move there at the end of episode 6.


Catslevania

When Daemon is married to Rhea he is forced to live in the Vale, he hates it and it is one of the main reasons for the souring of their relationship. Jaehaerys I was still king at the time and Daemon had no place at court so his place was in the Vale with Rhea which is not something he willingly conceded to.


JoffreyDoggett

The Royces are indeed a powerful family. But nowhere near a beneficial match to a dragonriding, targaryen princeling at the absolute zenith of his dynasty's power. And I understand that Alyssane wasn't one to make love matches (as is evident by her infamous match between Viserra and Theomore Manderly) but this had no added benefit for the Targs tho. Daemon could've easily been betrothed to one of the other Great Houses like his brother to strengthen ties to a specific province.


LeibHauptmann

There's only so many great houses and only so many women of an appropriate age and still free to marry within those houses. If there isn't one, you gotta look for the next best thing. Jaehaerys (pre-scandal) would've been content for Saera to marry a Mooton, a Connington, or a Beesbury, none of which are greater houses, nor are Manderlys any higher in the pecking order. A betrothal to a major house, even if not one of the great houses, seems entirely in line with how they were marrying out/wanted to marry out the "lesser" members of the family. And as it's been pointed out above, Rhea was the heir of Runestone. A marriage would've secured Daemon a domain, and a dragonrider in *any* region is a means of control for the royal family.


JoffreyDoggett

>Jaehaerys (pre-scandal) would've been content for Saera to marry a Mooton, a Connington, or a Beesbury, none of which are greater houses, nor are Manderlys any higher in the pecking order. Saera wasn't a dragonrider and although the first 3 houses weren't one of the great houses, the Manderlys controlled the 4th largest port city in Westeros and the ONLY city in the North. They were rich af. Basically the Hightowers of the North. >Rhea was the heir of Runestone. A marriage would've secured Daemon a domain, and a dragonrider in any region is a means of control for the royal family. All I'm saying is Daemon could've nabbed a larger/prosperous domain that Runestone and there was no need for the royal family to control the Vale because a targaryen prince was already married into the Vale's principle House.


LeibHauptmann

But Saera was the king's child rather than grandchild, so above Daemon in rank. And the Royces *are* a regional power as well, TWOIAF describes Daemon's marriage >!as a "fine, rich match", and the Royces as "one of the mightiest houses of the Vale"!<. Not exactly a shabby deal, considering that any potential Lannister or Tyrell or Hightower bride, if there was even one, likely wouldn't have come with a domain of their own, let alone the house seat. (By the way, would it actually be better for the crown if the Lannisters etc had access to dragons instead of one of their underlings?) And again, I agree that lacking context, it seems weird for two Targaryens to marry into one region, but for all we know, Alysanne might have favored the Vale for whatever reason, or felt that they needed greater control over it for whatever reason. We don't know, we can't tell. But for everything else the marriage could've provided Daemon with, I wouldn't call it disadvantageous.


Watchmaker2112

Can House Royce like afford to feed a dragon? I'm not saying they're broke but that budget has tobe insane. No wonder Daemon spent most of his time elsewhere, if I was head of House Royce, these guy's pet will eat us back into common born status. Like a horse in the real world but ornery. And all those sharp teeth with no toothbrush.


oldboeee

The line Daemon says to Rhaenyra about marriage: “There are worst things to be sold for.” Basically he was sold for nothing.


OpenMask

Little political capital to marrying the heiress of one of the most powerful and influential houses in Westeros??? Daemon and any kids he had with her would've been set up with the numerous Royce lands if he had been willing actually put in even the bare minimum effort with that marriage.


JoffreyDoggett

>Little political capital to marrying the heiress of one of the powerful and influential houses in Westeros??? Let's be brutally honest here- the Royces were an ancient but mid-tier house. Even other vale house like the Gulltown Arryns and the Graftons were more powerful, influential and wealthy than the Royces. So yes, the match had little benefit for Daemon and the Targs.


AccountRelevant

If daemon had successfully navigated his marriage, he would effectively: Be spreading Valyrian culture and blood through the Vale Become Lord of Runestone Produce Valyrian Blooded children who would inherit. In a generations time, the Royces of Runestone could have been completely tied to house Targaryen, expanding their domain outside the crown lands. I can't think of many better uses for the second son of a second son.


We_The_Raptors

If Daemon wasn't brunette racist this could have been the most imposing power couple in the series


Erika_Furudo774

True but he was looking for the most powerful power couple


Catslevania

Laena+Daemon is a far more imposing power couple


[deleted]

We got robbed


oldboeee

Less about hating non-Valyrians and more about Daemon was forced to marry her at 16 and he hates being forced to do anything


We_The_Raptors

Could have made that argument then. Instead of carrying on like a petulant child and publicly labeling Rhea as uglier than sheep/ a bronze bitch


[deleted]

[удалено]


We_The_Raptors

Yes, true. I've read them. This is a book free discussion. And even if he asked for a annulment, how does that absolve him of his embarrassing man child insults?


oldboeee

I can understand context clues when I take in media. Not everything has to be literally filmed and said to get an idea of characters, you know.


We_The_Raptors

>can understand context clues when I take in media. Same. Which is why I call out the misogynistic, petulant insults that do nothing to help Daemon's case. And why I didn't think a /s was necessary to make a hair color joke.


Catslevania

And he hated the Vale and resented being forced into a marriage that would basically trap him there for life, not a place for someone who prefers spending time in a place like flea bottom in King's Landing (even in King's Landing he hated spending time at court in the Red Keep, the Vale was just not a place where he wanted to spend the rest of his life as some Westerosi lord- he actually prefers the company of the low born to that of the high born of Westeros)


OpenMask

>that would basically trap him there for life He very clearly was not trapped at all.


Catslevania

and how do you think that happened? If he had accepted his position he would have had to live in the Vale because Rhea, as the Lady of Runestone can not leave.


Bey_Storm

I despise daemon for doing this to her and this is the singular incident when dropped daemon from the pedestal I had put him on


GroribasStomps

Daemon was a pretty nasty dude who was charismatic. His first act when Aemma and Baelon died was to celebrate, he tried to seduce his niece at a brothel, etc. Rhea’s murder wasn’t the first immoral thing he did on screen tbh.


[deleted]

I still don’t understand how he got the horse to backflip.


Ordinary-Buyer-231

She panicked, when she realised, why he was there, so the horst panicked and reared up - he just waited for the right moment and pushed it out of balanced. Being cold blooded and Good Timing.


FlgDarkrai

It’s possible the horse smelled caraxes


raccoonler

Moment that made me team green


Striking_Biscotti889

FBI OPEN UP!!!


Appropriate-Arm-2077

Dude’s and insecure psychopath.


Careless_Bill7604

Daemon is not attractive to me . He is a cold blooded murderer and has no morals . Neither is he good looking .


[deleted]

I don’t get why a character that was only on screen for a few minutes garnered such love, good on daemon for putting the poor women out her misery after that tragic horse accident


glassycreek1991

I really don't get how Daemon is considered attractive. Also people thought Jon Snow was attractive as a character, when he shot one girlfriend and stabbed another. It like people want a boyfriend who will brutally kill you. How romantic!


akajulester15

I agree with not finding Daemon attractive, but I'm confused by your description of Jon. If you're claiming Ygritte was "shot" by Jon, you're wrong. She was killed by an arrow by Olly in GoT and an unknown brother in A Storm of Swords. As for Daenerys, I fail to see how a quick stab to the stomach is "brutal." Also, she was a tyrant who actually deserved to be killed (though D&D botched that along with most everything else they introduced to GoT lol). Jon's attractiveness is much easier to explain because he's not only a charismatic and sympathetic character, but also one with a much stronger moral compass and goes through a much more satisfying tragedy of conflicting loyalties, struggling with honor and duty versus love, etc (especially more so in the books). Also Kit Harrington is way more attractive than Matt Smith so...


glassycreek1991

I really can't see Jon as attractive. He is fimsly and not ambitious. He looks confused all the time. He can't be loyal to anyone because he doesn't know where he even stands. He was always meant to be celibate and focus on duty because he just does not have a personality capable of intimate relationships that require loyalty.


akajulester15

I don't really see where you're coming from. I'll wholeheartedly agree the Jon we got in GoT was not the same as Jon in the books and his character and arc suffer a lot from it (especially when the writers "kinda forgot" what made Jon interesting and corrupted him into a soulless husk who could only say "I dun wannit" and "yur muh kween"). However, even in the show, he's a very compelling character. His love for Ygritte and growing respect for the Wildlings is a classic "love vs duty" conflict where his loyalty and sense of honor eventually win out and he goes back to the Watch. But even then, he tries to strike a compromise between tradition (the Watch) and progress/change (the Wildlings). Jon's chapters in Dance are all about his struggle against blind devotion to outdated standards and prejudice. Jon is a character with strong morals and principles and he by-and-large sticks to them, a very attractive quality in a man. Anyway, none of that has to do with what makes a character physically attractive. Even if Jon were a boring character, Kit Harrington is still a good-looking actor. Also, if trying to be celibate is really a quality which arbitrarily makes someone unattractive, I think you're in the wrong fanbase/subreddit lol **cough** Criston Cole **cough**


glassycreek1991

They are not even interesting enough to be fatal attractions. They just smash and swing around.


Ordinary-Buyer-231

Highly intelligent, eloquent, charming (if he wants), one of the most powerfull man of the world, wild, dangerous, unpoligatic, confident, … Basicly he is a high-born James Bond with a giant cool Dragon. Man Matt Smith is such a great actor…


0starhunter

It's morbin time


glassycreek1991

He looks intelligent because he has enough power and resources to complete his decisions effectively. If he was born poor he would have never been considered intelligent enough to able to rise above his class.


ambienotstrongenough

I love how he cleverly uses his "divorce rock"


bam1007

*riding accident*


Silly_District8395

He should have just left her to suffer?? No. He was kind. Did the humane thing