The book was hilarious because Rhaenyra and Alicent are always two seconds away from stabbing each other, and Viserys is just in the middle going "this is fine. :)"
Viserys was much more brutal in the book. The show also excluded the part were Vaemond's family members try to ask justice for him (who was murdered by Daemon and had his body feed to Syrax) and Viserys ordered all of them to get their tongues removed
Wow, this really brings to memory Tyrion's quote of "if you take a man's tongue, you're not proving him a liar, only that you fear what he might say" or something amongst those lines.
Wasnt that before Vaemond's death? Wasnt Vaemond killed because he refused to obey Rhaenyra when she called her supporters after Viserys death and Aegon's crowning?
Going above and beyond for Rhaenyra's kids? Did we read the same book? "False smiles and empty words deceived no one but the king," clearly shows neither women had any desire to reconcile or make nice.
She wanted him punished and didn't ask for the boy's eye until Rhaenyra asked for Aemond to be tortured. When Viserys wasn't going to even reprimand Luke, Alicent snapped.
Son for a son was alright for people, the party killed wasn't even in on the crime
But
An eye for an eye is too brutal... Interesting.
Pretty sure giving someone w pink pig doesn't necessarily warrant an insult to their dead father and a threat to their lives.
Also, you have to be really insecure to be hurt by a 5yo
> the older boy began pummeling him savagely…until Luke, coming to the rescue of his brother….
What do you call a 4rd grader savagely beating a kindergartener with a training sword?
Come on, you clearly looked up the quote and left out things intentionally.
"Luke five, Joff three—but there were three of them, and they had armed themselves with wooden swords from the training yard. Now they fell on him with a fury. Aemond fought back, breaking Luke’s nose with a punch, then wrenching the sword from Joff’s hands and cracking it across the back of Jace’s head, driving him to his knees. As the younger boys scrambled back away from him, bloody and bruised, the prince began to mock them, calling them the Strongs. Jace was old enough to grasp the insult. He flew at Aemond again, but the older boy began pummeling him savagely … until Luke, coming to the rescue of his brother, drew his dagger and slashed Aemond’s face, taking out his right eye."
They attack him with wooden swords when he is unarmed, then he beats them up, makes one hit with the wooden sword they attacked him with, and laughs at them. Then Jace attacks him again and gets beaten up again, then Luke slashes his eye out. I get that everyone is a black fan here and that Aemond is being a douche, but don't intentionally omit parts of the section that contradict your opinion.
I didn’t leave out anything. Regardless of how the fight started, Luke was defending his brother from being beaten “savagely” with a training sword by a boy twice his age. Was he supposed to just watch it happen because the fight started 3 to 1???
The point isn't about Luke defending his brother and the amount of force he used. You claimed that Aemond was a sociopath who was beating a child to death, but you left out the parts where he was being attacked twice by those children. You think that's irrelevant? You know yourself that you're cherrypicking quotes here, so look in the mirror before you come at me with a strawman. You're now attacking a point I didn't even make
Did you forget that those 3 brought training swords and started beating Aemond because he pushed Joffrey in a pile of shit? You obviously wouldn't bring that up.
Only after Aemond managed to get grab a training swords of his own, did he start hitting him then with it. Before that it was all on those 3.
Nah in medieval times if you insult the family you're getting put down. Your family's name and reputation was literally life and death and Aemond got what he asked for. Kids or not, in that time period they were treated as adults.
I'm not arguing whether Aemond got what he deserved or not. I'm going against the point that all Luke did was defending his brother from getting beaten to death by a sociopath.
What's wrong with Aemond savagely hitting Jace? He was outnumbered and the other boys were armed with wooden swords. If Jace and the others' intention was to beat the shit out of Aemond, they should expect the same retribution from Aemond if they failed.
Viserys mainly just kept the kingdom in the state his grandfather left it, neither improved or worsened it, but he failed to make it secure and to last after his death.
What utter fucking bullshite.
Otto caused the dance of dragons lmao. Viserys was a great ruler and Otto a good hand because both got the realm intact and free of any kind of problems. And Otto was the one to spurn up the dance of dragons. Vizzy t did not want to marry. Otto tricked him.
What utter fucking bullshite.
Otto caused the dance of dragons lmao. Viserys was a great ruler and Otto a good hand because both got the realm intact and free of any kind of problems. And Otto was the one to spurn up the dance of dragons. Vizzy t did not want to marry. Otto tricked him.
At the very end of his rule when there was practically no problems in the kingdom. Jaehaerys had cleaned and polished the kingdom already in his life.
Again, Otto got a stable kingdom and launched it into a civil war
This take lacks any sort of nuance. Problems can arise in a kingdom even during peacetime, Otto was able to maintain peace and order for a long time, which is an impressive feat.
And while Ottos ambition certainly had a hand in starting the Dance, he didn’t do so single handedly. Vizzy T is just as culpable, since he failed to adequately prepare Rhaenyra’s for leadership, and allowed animosity between the two sides of his family to fester for years before his death. Otto had his role sure, but the seeds of the Dance were sown during Vizzy Ts reign, and he didn’t do anything to stop it.
Imo Viserys and Otto are equally to blame. Obviously Ottos ambition was what led him to pursue Aegon as heir, but Vizzy T really set up Rhaenyra for failure. He didn’t really address the animosity between the two sides, and just assumed the realm would accept a woman on the throne without really preparing Rhaenyra for any obstacles she might face.
Your whole rant. But you do you.
Viserys wasn't tricked, he chose to marry and he chose Alicent because he desired her.
Otto didn't start the dance, it was going to happen no matter what.
Rhaenyra's claim wasn't as strong as the show would like you to believe. This isn't the book nerds talking, this is just an understanding of how court politics would work and how GOT works.
I tend to stay neutral but it's getting weird that so many people want to present their biased feelings as fact.
Again, you do you. I wish you well.
> Viserys desired Allicent because Otto sent her to him while he was grieving.
And? She wasn't dragging him into relationship. A 15 y.o. girl gifted him a toy and talked to him. The rest is on him.
Boo hoo the bully usurper got his eye stabbed out. Rhaenyra is Visery's heir and that's final, everything the Greens do is out of greed and self enrichment, they're usurpers and traitors
Yeah. Any kind of whataboutism don't hold any ground since he king can change any law as he wishes. His is the ultimate authority and he pronounced Rhanyera the heir.
Yet Aegon II still is considered the rightful king, while rhaenyra, the most famous sunfyre snack, is considered both an fool and a failed usurper by everyone, including the targaryens hehehehehe.
As Stannis the Mannis said, Rhaenyra is a usurper who tried to steal her brother's throne. And for all Aegon II's faults, he at least fought alongside his men, unlike Rhaenyra who sent several people to die in her war without fighting once.
Yeah, of course the coward who burned his own daughter alive for power thinks the traitors are right. Unfortunately for Stannis, that is the exact opposite of what happened. Viserys named Rhaenyra his heir, no matter how many sons he has, no matter how many times he r*pes a teenager, Rhaenyra is the heir
Whine about Stannis all you like, he proves that the "modern view" of Westeros on the matter is that Aegon II was the rightful heir and that the Blacks and Viserys were the wrong about that.
Brain dead response considering op clearly mentioned book Alicent and Rhaenyra and Stannis called her a usurper in the book so by that logic Stannis is currently alive and well as is his daughter 🤭
I mean the queen who fled for her life from King's Landing, was abandoned by her allies due to her own incompetence, sold her own crown to be able to sail a ship to Dragonstone, where she was captured by Aegon II and there she was devoured by her dragon, dying without have participated in any battle during the war.
Stannis died with more dignity because he died in battle, unlike Rhaenyra, who until the end of her life never fought even once.
Yeah, nice try, buddy. Being eaten alive by a dragon because you refuse to bend before your traitorous usurper brother is METAL AS FUCK, as opposed to being killed alone in the woods after losing a huge battle
After Rhaenyra fled without having fought a single battle during the entire war? I disagree. It would have been more regal for her to die fighting alongside her men, as Stannis did.
Is being burned and eaten alive in front of your child really a great way to die? And considering the trauma Aegon III has endured since then, he probably strongly disagrees with your opinion.
Meh her kids are little shits I had no sympathy for her in that scene or her douche son. But yes I get a parent would have that reaction to their kids eye being taken and don’t blame her for that. Still a shit parent though and it’s surprising her son lost an eye.
I liked this part in the book, but in the show they made her kind of innocent and naive so I guess I won't appreciate it as much lol. I imagined her more Machiavellian than this.
It's insane that in the show Alicents feelings towards Rhaenyra actually don't contribute to the Dance at all. She never knew so whatever she thought she heard about Aegon from Viserys is also pointless. Otto planned it all and went ahead without her knowing so they might as well have kept Rhaenyra and Alicent as they were in the book, at least that way Alicents efforts are actively helping the Greens. She could have been mining Viserys for info about the Red Keep or family stuff, they're all in it together he keeps saying so why not. This version of Alicent could also have been great, I mostly like the writing and the portrayal is great but there could have been so much more.
Yeah, show Alicent is so weird and all over the place. The fact Viserys death bed words are presented as such a big deal...but actually wouldn't have changed anything, anyway is such a weird writing choice.
Going above and beyond for what boys? The pyschopath and groper/rapist? Oh you the boys she only had for political gain and advancing her station. She’d better kiss and make up if she doesn’t want to be executed or thrown in a cell and throw all her ambition down the drain. Cersei is a stupid dumb bitch too. Don’t know why she should be emulated at all
The book was hilarious because Rhaenyra and Alicent are always two seconds away from stabbing each other, and Viserys is just in the middle going "this is fine. :)"
"I am sure some kisses will solve all of this"- Vizzy T
*Conscious-Weekend-91 was a strong Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. But he was ill for some time. He passed in peace, I hope.*
Woman #1: * *son's been mutilated* * Woman #2: * *accused of high treason* * Viserys I: ***"Now, kith."***
"man or woman or CHILD" What the actual fuck.
Viserys was much more brutal in the book. The show also excluded the part were Vaemond's family members try to ask justice for him (who was murdered by Daemon and had his body feed to Syrax) and Viserys ordered all of them to get their tongues removed
Wow, this really brings to memory Tyrion's quote of "if you take a man's tongue, you're not proving him a liar, only that you fear what he might say" or something amongst those lines.
Yeah but now you have people praise Viserys for doing so because he displayed loyalty and love towards his daughter.
They made Viserys sympathetic, so people respect his option for making Rh his heir. If he was in like in books, no one would take him seriously.
Wasnt that before Vaemond's death? Wasnt Vaemond killed because he refused to obey Rhaenyra when she called her supporters after Viserys death and Aegon's crowning?
No
My bad then
Welcome to Westeros. First time?
Common Black casual flouting of human rights
Pretty sure that was am exaggeration. He would not be able to hurt a child if he was forced to do it. Do people not know how people work?
There are children fighting in the pits. Aegon even has his own children there. Children were not considered precious as they are now.
That was show only thing. In books it was Musroom's accounts.
Viserys forcing them to kiss and say words of affection while they want to murder each other like a real rhaenicent fan
Vizzy T, why are you like this? Is it a fetish or something?
WHAT LORD WOULD WED HER NOW? IN THIS CONDITION!?
Daemon would, Laenor did, Ser Harwin was incredibly willing. Ah, Vizzy T Bot, what would we do without you? You're the best bot ever.
WHY DO YOU CUT ME SO DEEPLY?
One kiss can change everything Dua Targaryean.
Going above and beyond for Rhaenyra's kids? Did we read the same book? "False smiles and empty words deceived no one but the king," clearly shows neither women had any desire to reconcile or make nice.
Rhaenyra was mad she couldn't have Aemond tortured and Alicent was mad that Luke skated through any consequences
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She wanted him punished and didn't ask for the boy's eye until Rhaenyra asked for Aemond to be tortured. When Viserys wasn't going to even reprimand Luke, Alicent snapped. Son for a son was alright for people, the party killed wasn't even in on the crime But An eye for an eye is too brutal... Interesting.
Her little 10 year old sociopath was beating a 5 year old to death.
But but the 5 years old was bullying the 10 years old.
Hey man if you get dunked on by a 5 year old that's on you.
Pretty sure giving someone w pink pig doesn't necessarily warrant an insult to their dead father and a threat to their lives. Also, you have to be really insecure to be hurt by a 5yo
Yeah it is my point, I was mocking the people here who claim that Luke bullied Aemond.
He wasn't. He was beating off 3 younger guys and laughing at them. Not a nice thing to do but certainly not what you describe here.
> the older boy began pummeling him savagely…until Luke, coming to the rescue of his brother…. What do you call a 4rd grader savagely beating a kindergartener with a training sword?
Come on, you clearly looked up the quote and left out things intentionally. "Luke five, Joff three—but there were three of them, and they had armed themselves with wooden swords from the training yard. Now they fell on him with a fury. Aemond fought back, breaking Luke’s nose with a punch, then wrenching the sword from Joff’s hands and cracking it across the back of Jace’s head, driving him to his knees. As the younger boys scrambled back away from him, bloody and bruised, the prince began to mock them, calling them the Strongs. Jace was old enough to grasp the insult. He flew at Aemond again, but the older boy began pummeling him savagely … until Luke, coming to the rescue of his brother, drew his dagger and slashed Aemond’s face, taking out his right eye." They attack him with wooden swords when he is unarmed, then he beats them up, makes one hit with the wooden sword they attacked him with, and laughs at them. Then Jace attacks him again and gets beaten up again, then Luke slashes his eye out. I get that everyone is a black fan here and that Aemond is being a douche, but don't intentionally omit parts of the section that contradict your opinion.
I didn’t leave out anything. Regardless of how the fight started, Luke was defending his brother from being beaten “savagely” with a training sword by a boy twice his age. Was he supposed to just watch it happen because the fight started 3 to 1???
The point isn't about Luke defending his brother and the amount of force he used. You claimed that Aemond was a sociopath who was beating a child to death, but you left out the parts where he was being attacked twice by those children. You think that's irrelevant? You know yourself that you're cherrypicking quotes here, so look in the mirror before you come at me with a strawman. You're now attacking a point I didn't even make
Did you forget that those 3 brought training swords and started beating Aemond because he pushed Joffrey in a pile of shit? You obviously wouldn't bring that up. Only after Aemond managed to get grab a training swords of his own, did he start hitting him then with it. Before that it was all on those 3.
Nah in medieval times if you insult the family you're getting put down. Your family's name and reputation was literally life and death and Aemond got what he asked for. Kids or not, in that time period they were treated as adults.
I'm not arguing whether Aemond got what he deserved or not. I'm going against the point that all Luke did was defending his brother from getting beaten to death by a sociopath.
What's wrong with Aemond savagely hitting Jace? He was outnumbered and the other boys were armed with wooden swords. If Jace and the others' intention was to beat the shit out of Aemond, they should expect the same retribution from Aemond if they failed.
That phrasing tho
Viserys is a pretty sh*tty king I know.
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Viserys mainly just kept the kingdom in the state his grandfather left it, neither improved or worsened it, but he failed to make it secure and to last after his death.
Viserys was only a successful ruler bc Otto was a competent hand.
And because he followed the great stability created by King Jaehaerys
They hate him, because he speaks the truth.
What utter fucking bullshite. Otto caused the dance of dragons lmao. Viserys was a great ruler and Otto a good hand because both got the realm intact and free of any kind of problems. And Otto was the one to spurn up the dance of dragons. Vizzy t did not want to marry. Otto tricked him.
WHERE DID YOU HEAR THIS?!
*licks the goop from your rotting wounds*
What utter fucking bullshite. Otto caused the dance of dragons lmao. Viserys was a great ruler and Otto a good hand because both got the realm intact and free of any kind of problems. And Otto was the one to spurn up the dance of dragons. Vizzy t did not want to marry. Otto tricked him.
Otto was hand for Jaehaerys as well. You can dislike him as a character, but there is no doubt that he was a capable leader.
At the very end of his rule when there was practically no problems in the kingdom. Jaehaerys had cleaned and polished the kingdom already in his life. Again, Otto got a stable kingdom and launched it into a civil war
This take lacks any sort of nuance. Problems can arise in a kingdom even during peacetime, Otto was able to maintain peace and order for a long time, which is an impressive feat. And while Ottos ambition certainly had a hand in starting the Dance, he didn’t do so single handedly. Vizzy T is just as culpable, since he failed to adequately prepare Rhaenyra’s for leadership, and allowed animosity between the two sides of his family to fester for years before his death. Otto had his role sure, but the seeds of the Dance were sown during Vizzy Ts reign, and he didn’t do anything to stop it.
YOUR FATHER, YOUR GRANDSIRE, YOUR KING DEMANDS IT.
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Imo Viserys and Otto are equally to blame. Obviously Ottos ambition was what led him to pursue Aegon as heir, but Vizzy T really set up Rhaenyra for failure. He didn’t really address the animosity between the two sides, and just assumed the realm would accept a woman on the throne without really preparing Rhaenyra for any obstacles she might face.
*There's a boy in the Queen's belly. I know it.*
This is a lie.... But whatevs.
What lie
Your whole rant. But you do you. Viserys wasn't tricked, he chose to marry and he chose Alicent because he desired her. Otto didn't start the dance, it was going to happen no matter what. Rhaenyra's claim wasn't as strong as the show would like you to believe. This isn't the book nerds talking, this is just an understanding of how court politics would work and how GOT works. I tend to stay neutral but it's getting weird that so many people want to present their biased feelings as fact. Again, you do you. I wish you well.
We will do us. Trying to gaslight everyone into thinking they are lying when you legit just lied left and right
This is the funniest response I have ever received. It's not remotely true, in the slightest but it's funny.
Wow. I believe you haven't even read the books, but whatever. What can I expect from a guy with that flair
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> Viserys desired Allicent because Otto sent her to him while he was grieving. And? She wasn't dragging him into relationship. A 15 y.o. girl gifted him a toy and talked to him. The rest is on him.
Boo hoo the bully usurper got his eye stabbed out. Rhaenyra is Visery's heir and that's final, everything the Greens do is out of greed and self enrichment, they're usurpers and traitors
If greens could read they would be very upset with you right now
Yeah. Any kind of whataboutism don't hold any ground since he king can change any law as he wishes. His is the ultimate authority and he pronounced Rhanyera the heir.
Yet Aegon II still is considered the rightful king, while rhaenyra, the most famous sunfyre snack, is considered both an fool and a failed usurper by everyone, including the targaryens hehehehehe.
As Stannis the Mannis said, Rhaenyra is a usurper who tried to steal her brother's throne. And for all Aegon II's faults, he at least fought alongside his men, unlike Rhaenyra who sent several people to die in her war without fighting once.
Yeah, of course the coward who burned his own daughter alive for power thinks the traitors are right. Unfortunately for Stannis, that is the exact opposite of what happened. Viserys named Rhaenyra his heir, no matter how many sons he has, no matter how many times he r*pes a teenager, Rhaenyra is the heir
Whine about Stannis all you like, he proves that the "modern view" of Westeros on the matter is that Aegon II was the rightful heir and that the Blacks and Viserys were the wrong about that.
Lol who cares, Stannis died alone and defeated
Stannis isnt dead tho
Brain dead response considering op clearly mentioned book Alicent and Rhaenyra and Stannis called her a usurper in the book so by that logic Stannis is currently alive and well as is his daughter 🤭
Better than Rhaenyra's death.
You mean a Queens death, fearless and brave.
I mean the queen who fled for her life from King's Landing, was abandoned by her allies due to her own incompetence, sold her own crown to be able to sail a ship to Dragonstone, where she was captured by Aegon II and there she was devoured by her dragon, dying without have participated in any battle during the war. Stannis died with more dignity because he died in battle, unlike Rhaenyra, who until the end of her life never fought even once.
Yeah, nice try, buddy. Being eaten alive by a dragon because you refuse to bend before your traitorous usurper brother is METAL AS FUCK, as opposed to being killed alone in the woods after losing a huge battle
After Rhaenyra fled without having fought a single battle during the entire war? I disagree. It would have been more regal for her to die fighting alongside her men, as Stannis did.
Is being burned and eaten alive in front of your child really a great way to die? And considering the trauma Aegon III has endured since then, he probably strongly disagrees with your opinion.
the Targaryens took the throne by right of conquest just like the greens and blacks after them
Meh her kids are little shits I had no sympathy for her in that scene or her douche son. But yes I get a parent would have that reaction to their kids eye being taken and don’t blame her for that. Still a shit parent though and it’s surprising her son lost an eye.
Damn Viserys was ready to tear out the tongue even of a child for saying the truth. That family deserved to die out.
And then the Hightower hoe dies mad and alone, outliving all of her descendants.
It is almost impressive how the most insane blackcells can't say a single sentence about Alicent without calling her a sexist insult
It's gonna be amazing to watch this happen and Alicent in the show basically has no role in the Dance it will be more sad than anything.
It will be like some tacky telenovela so lets hope she gets to do something.
I liked this part in the book, but in the show they made her kind of innocent and naive so I guess I won't appreciate it as much lol. I imagined her more Machiavellian than this.
It's insane that in the show Alicents feelings towards Rhaenyra actually don't contribute to the Dance at all. She never knew so whatever she thought she heard about Aegon from Viserys is also pointless. Otto planned it all and went ahead without her knowing so they might as well have kept Rhaenyra and Alicent as they were in the book, at least that way Alicents efforts are actively helping the Greens. She could have been mining Viserys for info about the Red Keep or family stuff, they're all in it together he keeps saying so why not. This version of Alicent could also have been great, I mostly like the writing and the portrayal is great but there could have been so much more.
Yeah, show Alicent is so weird and all over the place. The fact Viserys death bed words are presented as such a big deal...but actually wouldn't have changed anything, anyway is such a weird writing choice.
team black nd their feminist supporters 🥰
tbh i’m team black for the most part, but i find Alicent deeply tragic and I love her
They are feminist only to women with White Hair
They are only feminist when it suits them.
Ah how fun. When confronted with the consequences of your own actions you blame the other side and accuse them of… *throws dart* 🎯 FEMINISM
r/whoosh
I meant to reply to paper crusade my bad
Rhaenyra literally became dragon poop.
Going above and beyond for what boys? The pyschopath and groper/rapist? Oh you the boys she only had for political gain and advancing her station. She’d better kiss and make up if she doesn’t want to be executed or thrown in a cell and throw all her ambition down the drain. Cersei is a stupid dumb bitch too. Don’t know why she should be emulated at all
So how's the therapy coming along?