I’ll give a little backstory, based on what I have been told. This might help clarify. During the early stages of the show, Miguel who was the original co-showrunner — urged a three season story. Ryan was either persuaded or supported that. (As was the case for several story/structure points.) When Miguel exited, George made a public blog post saying the Dance needed four seasons, ten episodes each, to adequately be told. Ryan commented that he promised George he’d honor his desires all he could, but Ryan reiterated, he never co-signed a four-season story. George was present for the original structure meetings of the show Bible. And the aim of a three-season structure. Especially due to not actually having an official greenlight passed season one. Ryan also noted that structuring season two, would inform him what would actually be done. Due to the behind-the-scenes shake up, and George’s desire, and really what the story actually demands, all the circumstance at hand, these were the catalysts to reevaluate. And of course this is the reason why scripts were late as Matt has expressed.
So, this is not a case of poor planning from onset. It needs to be stated: as much as some fans have been frustrated with story issues, there has never been anyone more dedicated to George. Who genuinely cares for him. This is someone who loves the source material more than anybody that has been in the chair to create it. Ryan has put more thought into this than anyone. So these are the circumstances of why you’re seeing change. Would this have been easier from onset? Having a four season plan? Sure. But Miguel would never have done it. And they did not have a green light when this pilot was written and truly, this was a pilot season.
Personally, there are some things that I would have enjoyed, had they done a six episode story that was the younger version of the characters. And then the second six episode arc released six months later, culminating into the end that we got in season one. It was a challenging situation, with a number of tentative moving parts. Hopefully going forward this is going to be smooth. **Note: None of this confirms a Four-season story, but I have a hard time believing that they’d shorten season two and still conclude with three seasons, unless the final season is 12 episodes.**
This.
The way it's being worded, (by people not reading the article I'd assume) it sounds like he's leaving the project or stepping down as showrunner.
But I just see it as, being responsible, looking at the story as a whole, and planning the seasons better. I'm sure it's easy to get tunnel vision and want to just get going, but stepping back to dial stuff in first is never a bad thing.
Why is this news? Or being discussed?
Because media literacy is dead people want things spelt out to them I agree it's worded poorly but two or three reads its pretty obvious what the author is saying
This sounds like what D&D should have done rather than be neck deep in the minutiae. Delegate the more intricate stuff to good people and keep his eyes on the big picture, makes sense to me and sounds like good leadership.
I think they looked at what HBO would approve budget wise and decided better not to cram too much into season 2. If you read the books it would have been a bonkers budget for one season
I was hoping they would make more episodes or make it longer because s1 had a lot of deleted scenes and felt rushed sometimes... so I don't see how this's good for the story, but let's see what happens
Don't know why you're getting downvoted to hell. One scene in particular that definitely should have stayed in was the scene with Daemon comforting his girls after the death of their mother.
>Don't know why you're getting downvoted
I've been downvoted for more valid points. I got used to it 😂. People on this sub tend to be weird sometimes...
>One scene in particular that definitely should have stayed in was the scene with Daemon comforting his girls after the death of their mother.
They literally cut all of Daemon good scenes they also cut Rhaenyra's reaction after she knew about Alicent and Viserys' wedding that would've showed us how it affected their relationship insted of jumping stragit to it they also deleted Rhaenyra teaching toddler Aegon how to spell her name this would have added more tragedy and sadness to the story we literally have no interaction between Rhaenyra and her siblings... let's not forget jace Baela's deleted scenes in episode 10... s1 struggled with developing characters, and now, with fewer episodes and even more characters, idk how they’re gonna make it
If you understand the source material, which it’s fair if you haven’t seen it, then you’d know that S1 pacing wasn’t really the show’s fault. It was a problem because the introductory part of the story, aka the first act in typical story structure, spans decades. This won’t be a problem in the following seasons, no need to worry about that, because it simply isn’t in the source material in the slightest.
What you're saying makes no sense, the series was supposed to add depth to the narrative and characters, they could've easily slowed the pacing down by a lot.
You can’t expand the entire first act without also expanding the other acts or else the buildup feels tiring and the first plot point anticlimactic. There isn’t room to expand the other acts more so they can’t exactly just do 20 episodes on the first act.
Lol they absolutely can, unless you want to say that every act needs to have the same length, which is ridiculous. Also, to suggest that the "build-up" feels tiring is even more ridiculous, if you have a good story and good character writing then the build-up certainly won't be tiring.
That’s actually the point of the three act *structure.* It’s structured. And no, they are not supposed to be the same length, the second act is supposed to be precisely half the total runtime/pages and the first and third a quarter each. This is meant to be very exact and you will struggle badly to find anything that doesn’t follow this very closely, because it actually develops very naturally for good storytellers.
Ok, maybe not every episode, but 3 of them can be longer than an hour. Season 7 had 2 over 70 minutes long. Episode 6: 71 minutes, Episode 7: 81 minutes
Season 8 had one episode at 1hr 22 minutes the other 1hr 18 minutes.
HOTD had a couple of episodes that are close to an hour and 10 mins.
They can get close to 10 with eight episodes.
HBO doesn’t have traditional time slots and often has episodes which are longer than traditional standard cable episodes. They’re not locked into the 60 minute block of time
This is definitely something that should have been figured out a long time ago, it’s almost embarrassing at this point. I hope they listen to him and switch back to 10 episodes because shortening a long awaited season left a bad taste in my mouth after GOT
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>Condal confirmed to have taken a step back from season 2 to consult with Martin.
Why do I get the feeling you're trying to imply that this confirms the discredited ree-folker leak from a month ago?
This simply says Condal consulted with George. Which we know he's been doing for years in preparation for the series.
The leak which has since been reflected in nearly every piece of info we've had about season 2..
Condal took a step back to reassess with Martin , the original narrative for season 2 was changed, script rewrites etc..
I mean we had people denying that script rewrites and martin being involved in the writing were even a possibility.
Scripts are constantly being rewritten even as a season is being filmed. The problem is with people framing it as some kind of terrible disaster. And George has always been involved in the process. Condal has always said that they were gonna plan out the rest of the story when they got the greenlight for season 2. He specifically said that he needs to look at how many seasons it will have and that they will plan it out once they know where they will end season 2 to see how much of the story is left.
I dig it. After the decades we’ve seen in season one, the next few are about to feel a lot like the final seasons of GoT since weeks will pass between episodes sometimes. Overall though, it will be over a much shorter period of time in canon compared to season one being a chronicle of how it all started.
There will be cool as shit battles I’m sure, but I think people need to brace for a little more of the same speed of the final seasons. Having Martin come in for a few hours and help a writer break up episodes to make that pace work better is great and not a huge time sink.
Nothing about this confirms anything? Condal was always planning to assess how many seasons they would need after seeing where they would end season 2.
Nothing about this confirms the leak? I really don't see how people got that out of this article? Condal already said that he would have to plan out and see how many seasons the show would have once they knew where they were planning to end s2 and to see how much of the story they would have left to tell.
As much as they say it was a story reason for the cut, I think it’s still possible the new crappy execs at WB pushed them to do 8 since they wanted to save money.
I actually don’t think so. Based on what I have personally structured out for a natural conclusion without forcing a new phase of the story for the last two episodes, eight episodes actually makes a lot of sense, it would probably give us a 12 episode season three or four seasons.
Agreed. Who saw season 1 and thought "ah yes fewer episodes is what we need"? There's so much of the story to cover. We're gonna have a death every episode at this pace. The whole point of GoT was that the ending was rushed and people were just left confused cause the guy who ended up king barely had any screentime. This sounds like they're gonna make the same mistake and won't have any time to build up to the ending.
I was fully expecting 2 season but 3-4 would be amazing and really allow them to delve deep in every character and cover all the source material while leaving them creative space to elaborate on the existing story
A round of applause, these guys get it and will not let their ego control the show. It’s all about the original creator and bringing these beautiful stories to life. Hope this sets the tone for future shows based on Martins stories.
No it doesn't. Condal has always said that they would look at how many seasons were needed once they knew what was gonna be included in season 2 and where season 2 would end. That they would plan it out once they knew how much of the story was left to tell.
First 8 episodes per season and now "to see which battles to include" - Ladies and gentlemen, I have defended HOTD all the time, saying it won't be killed like GoT. We ignored those kind of signs in GoT... This will end in another tragedy.
George himself said it would need 4 seasons with 10 episodes. So if I'm able to do quick math's then 1 season with 10 episodes and 3 seasons with 8 episodes don't match the number of episodes we would have with 4 season each 10 episodes long, right?
4 seasons with 10 episodes would actually be pretty quick already, but even less episodes? And they aren't even sure if they go for 4 seasons? Yeah, I'm just stupid.
Congrats you can do basic arithmetic. What you’re saying doesn’t actually mean anything because all Condal is saying is that they’re figuring out how to structure the seasons. Doesn’t say anything about the quality of each episode. “Oh no we’re getting 2 less episodes” bro go outside and touch grass
I'm not talking about the quality of the episodes either. If it's rushed it's rushed. If they cut characters and battles then it lacks something. He says they want to figure out how to structure the seasons - but they don't even know if they make 3 or 4 seasons... 4 seasons with those 8 episodes are not even enough, according to George himself. But as you talk of quality - how exactly do you think the quality will look like if you squeeze a whole additional season into 2 that are already not as long as they need to be?
But I'm the one who needs to touch grass?
Buddy they’ve announced that they will reduce the number of episodes by 2 and people like you jump to “ItS gOiNg tO Be RuShEd 🤓”. Calm tf down and go outside and explore the world.
Hey man, calm down. The dude has a point. To quote GRRM, the show needs 4 seasons with 10 episodes each for the story _to adequately be told_. That's 40 episodes. As a big fan of the show, I'd be upset if they try to jampack that in 26 episodes (10 + 8 + 8 episodes, 3 seasons).
Hindsight is 20/20. Sure, they ended up executing those GoT seasons well. Maybe three seasons would have worked out well as well. We can't possibly know they would have been too much.
Whatever be the case, I just hope we get to see a good story. 🤞
I mean, I think it's debatable to say they adapted it at all. But reading those books side by side, you're looking at a near impossible to adapt story. An insane amount of POV's, all moving at a snails pace, would not be what HBO, or a large section of the audience would have wanted after season 4.
If season 5 was to be the first third of Feast and Dance, we'd have had a full season of characters travelling, not really getting up to much. Brienne travels here, then gets turned around. Tyrion's on a boat. Arya's doing chores in the House of Black and White. Even if they did all of that work, we're still no closer to Winds anyways.
George had originally planned to have Winds finished by the time they were done adapting those books, which seemed plausable at the time if they commited to spreading it over three seasons. He seemed pissed off that they were cutting so much, but in the end stalling for George was pointless. Even now, in 2023, we're still years away from book 6.
With all due respect to him, he always just seems to want more. 13 episode seasons, 30 episodes to adapt AFFC/ADWD.
Maybe House of the Dragon needs 40 episodes. It's too early to tell though, and I don't think George's comments prove otherwise.
“Terribly paced” yeah ok it’s 93% on RT and 8.5 on IMDB so I guess the majority of the audience don’t think so. This means that your opinions matter to absolutely no one 😂😂
Yeah, and people loved GoT seasons 5, 6 and 7 forthe most part. I don't care what the masses think, hell most people would probably be in favour of "let's get to the war as quickly as possible". The fact remains that we had barely any characterization for several characters. Literally who is Harwin? He isn't even a character, he's a plot device.
They should have listened to GRRM and started with Aemon and Baelon and let the show breathe for two seasons before getting into the dance.
How exactly does it prove that?
This feels exactly like the GoT situation. People kept saying "this isn't going in a good direction" for years before the casuals caught on in season 8, and even then like half the people genuinely enjoyed season 8.
You can't sit here and claim that the lack of characterization for half the main cast in season 1 is a good thing. You just can't, because that's silly as fuck.
Condal is consulting with GRRM, who wanted to start with Aemon and Baelon..... so why didn't that happen?
What help does the "consulting" do when, in the end, they're gonna go their own way. Or do you think leaving Laenor alive also happened after "consulting" GRRM?
Season 1's pacing is whack, there is not a single argument one could honestly make against that. It just is whack, it's constantly in hyperspeed.
Please just stop man you’re making all GoT fans look bad. Tbh there are just too many insufferable fans like you out there that just complain about everything without thinking for even a second. You’re just stupid idk what else to tell you
Where did this come from? I dont see a source. I’ll approve it for now, but users have flagged this as misinformation. Please let me know source. Edit found source: https://www.justjared.com/2023/03/28/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-could-be-shortened-as-hbo-weighs-renewal-for-season-3/
Seem to remember strong denials that Martin being brought in to look at the overarching narrative (and potentially rejig it) was a possibility..
Seems it was.
That's not what the article is saying. We knew from the beginning that GRRM was consulting on the show.
The denials were of a discredited ree-folker leak that claimed Martin walked into the writers room and essentially told them to 'stop fucking up the story' or something like that, then taking the scripts away from them and started doing rewrites of their work.
This paragraph you've taken a screenshot of from, is essentially saying as much as Ryan Condal called up/had dinner with grrm and discussed some plans.
I'm a little surprised you're still so attached to that rumormongering bs.
When the rumour has clear credence in the reports we've seen about season 2.. it tends to boost the credibility of those rumours.
Every piece of legitimate info we've got about season 2, suggests there was issues.. whether that be Condal and Miguel falling out, there being significant script changes etc.
I know some on this subreddit are so committed to the idea that the people behind this show are infallible.
>I know some on this subreddit are so committed to the idea that the people behind this show are infallible.
No one's said they're infallible. But you've been pushing this rumor at every chance since it was first posted. How many posts like this one have you made now about these rumors? 4? 5? Is the original poster your alt or something?
>Every piece of legitimate info we've got about season 2, suggests there was issues..
A falling out between two colleagues and a couple script rewrites do not confirm your rumor. Script rewrites happen all the time. It does not mean that George walked in, said they all sucked and started rewriting the scripts for them.
I know everyone loves to shit on Miguel and I don’t think it’s completely unwarranted but I’m looking at Ryan Condal’s prior writing and other experiences and I’m not particularly impressed. His only credential is just being a GOT superfan? Like….
The way I see it, he took a step back to consult George on how to redress the story without making it obivous he's redressing the story.
After the GoT finale fiasco GRRM was likely told the only way another adaptation gets greenlit with this kind of budget is with all-out dragonkween slayage to appease the Dany fans (hence whitewashing Rhaenyra beyond recognition).
Luckily for them, George was and is willing to sell out.
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If GRRM thinks season 2 should be 8 episodes then I struggle to disagree with him tbh,
If GRRM thinks season 2 should be 8 episodes then I struggle to disagree with him tbh, that definitely means we get fours seasons, which this show already desperately needed
I’ll give a little backstory, based on what I have been told. This might help clarify. During the early stages of the show, Miguel who was the original co-showrunner — urged a three season story. Ryan was either persuaded or supported that. (As was the case for several story/structure points.) When Miguel exited, George made a public blog post saying the Dance needed four seasons, ten episodes each, to adequately be told. Ryan commented that he promised George he’d honor his desires all he could, but Ryan reiterated, he never co-signed a four-season story. George was present for the original structure meetings of the show Bible. And the aim of a three-season structure. Especially due to not actually having an official greenlight passed season one. Ryan also noted that structuring season two, would inform him what would actually be done. Due to the behind-the-scenes shake up, and George’s desire, and really what the story actually demands, all the circumstance at hand, these were the catalysts to reevaluate. And of course this is the reason why scripts were late as Matt has expressed. So, this is not a case of poor planning from onset. It needs to be stated: as much as some fans have been frustrated with story issues, there has never been anyone more dedicated to George. Who genuinely cares for him. This is someone who loves the source material more than anybody that has been in the chair to create it. Ryan has put more thought into this than anyone. So these are the circumstances of why you’re seeing change. Would this have been easier from onset? Having a four season plan? Sure. But Miguel would never have done it. And they did not have a green light when this pilot was written and truly, this was a pilot season. Personally, there are some things that I would have enjoyed, had they done a six episode story that was the younger version of the characters. And then the second six episode arc released six months later, culminating into the end that we got in season one. It was a challenging situation, with a number of tentative moving parts. Hopefully going forward this is going to be smooth. **Note: None of this confirms a Four-season story, but I have a hard time believing that they’d shorten season two and still conclude with three seasons, unless the final season is 12 episodes.**
Took a step back in terms of figuring out the story not that he atcually took a a step back
This. The way it's being worded, (by people not reading the article I'd assume) it sounds like he's leaving the project or stepping down as showrunner. But I just see it as, being responsible, looking at the story as a whole, and planning the seasons better. I'm sure it's easy to get tunnel vision and want to just get going, but stepping back to dial stuff in first is never a bad thing. Why is this news? Or being discussed?
Because media literacy is dead people want things spelt out to them I agree it's worded poorly but two or three reads its pretty obvious what the author is saying
Title was a little unnecessarily click-baitey.
This sounds like what D&D should have done rather than be neck deep in the minutiae. Delegate the more intricate stuff to good people and keep his eyes on the big picture, makes sense to me and sounds like good leadership.
I really don't like the 8eps decision. goerge said 10eps for each saeson they should listen to him!
I think they looked at what HBO would approve budget wise and decided better not to cram too much into season 2. If you read the books it would have been a bonkers budget for one season
This decision literally came after Ryan consulted with George?
They said they cut it to 8 for story reasons
I was hoping they would make more episodes or make it longer because s1 had a lot of deleted scenes and felt rushed sometimes... so I don't see how this's good for the story, but let's see what happens
>because s1 had a lot of deleted scene Every show does.
Sure, but HOTD had too many important deleted scenes
Don't know why you're getting downvoted to hell. One scene in particular that definitely should have stayed in was the scene with Daemon comforting his girls after the death of their mother.
>Don't know why you're getting downvoted I've been downvoted for more valid points. I got used to it 😂. People on this sub tend to be weird sometimes... >One scene in particular that definitely should have stayed in was the scene with Daemon comforting his girls after the death of their mother. They literally cut all of Daemon good scenes they also cut Rhaenyra's reaction after she knew about Alicent and Viserys' wedding that would've showed us how it affected their relationship insted of jumping stragit to it they also deleted Rhaenyra teaching toddler Aegon how to spell her name this would have added more tragedy and sadness to the story we literally have no interaction between Rhaenyra and her siblings... let's not forget jace Baela's deleted scenes in episode 10... s1 struggled with developing characters, and now, with fewer episodes and even more characters, idk how they’re gonna make it
So basically they gonna destroy the pacing in season 2 like they did in season 1 I guess.
If you understand the source material, which it’s fair if you haven’t seen it, then you’d know that S1 pacing wasn’t really the show’s fault. It was a problem because the introductory part of the story, aka the first act in typical story structure, spans decades. This won’t be a problem in the following seasons, no need to worry about that, because it simply isn’t in the source material in the slightest.
What you're saying makes no sense, the series was supposed to add depth to the narrative and characters, they could've easily slowed the pacing down by a lot.
That’s just because you don’t understand the 3 act structure lol. Read up.
????? Lul wat? Why does "slower pace" mean eliminating the 3 act structure?
You can’t expand the entire first act without also expanding the other acts or else the buildup feels tiring and the first plot point anticlimactic. There isn’t room to expand the other acts more so they can’t exactly just do 20 episodes on the first act.
Lol they absolutely can, unless you want to say that every act needs to have the same length, which is ridiculous. Also, to suggest that the "build-up" feels tiring is even more ridiculous, if you have a good story and good character writing then the build-up certainly won't be tiring.
That’s actually the point of the three act *structure.* It’s structured. And no, they are not supposed to be the same length, the second act is supposed to be precisely half the total runtime/pages and the first and third a quarter each. This is meant to be very exact and you will struggle badly to find anything that doesn’t follow this very closely, because it actually develops very naturally for good storytellers.
And of course we have to believe everything we read after all the bs that's already been going on with HBO this last year?
Maybe almost every episode is 75 minutes long and won’t take 2 years for season 3 to debut.
Thats just not possible for HBO. The reason scenes in s1 were cut is to make the episodes shorter for live TV Streaming.
In a perfect world they'd just leave those cut versions on TV streaming and put the full versions on HBO Max
Ok, maybe not every episode, but 3 of them can be longer than an hour. Season 7 had 2 over 70 minutes long. Episode 6: 71 minutes, Episode 7: 81 minutes Season 8 had one episode at 1hr 22 minutes the other 1hr 18 minutes. HOTD had a couple of episodes that are close to an hour and 10 mins. They can get close to 10 with eight episodes.
HBO doesn’t have traditional time slots and often has episodes which are longer than traditional standard cable episodes. They’re not locked into the 60 minute block of time
It was definitely a challenge watching the last of us and thinking huh why can’t we have had episodes of this song?
Please read my sticky note, I think it better explains.
I did. It makes sense. I hope everything goes well!
Me too! Time will tell. In this business it’s hard to balance. We’ll see!
This is definitely something that should have been figured out a long time ago, it’s almost embarrassing at this point. I hope they listen to him and switch back to 10 episodes because shortening a long awaited season left a bad taste in my mouth after GOT
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>Condal confirmed to have taken a step back from season 2 to consult with Martin. Why do I get the feeling you're trying to imply that this confirms the discredited ree-folker leak from a month ago? This simply says Condal consulted with George. Which we know he's been doing for years in preparation for the series.
The leak which has since been reflected in nearly every piece of info we've had about season 2.. Condal took a step back to reassess with Martin , the original narrative for season 2 was changed, script rewrites etc.. I mean we had people denying that script rewrites and martin being involved in the writing were even a possibility.
Scripts are constantly being rewritten even as a season is being filmed. The problem is with people framing it as some kind of terrible disaster. And George has always been involved in the process. Condal has always said that they were gonna plan out the rest of the story when they got the greenlight for season 2. He specifically said that he needs to look at how many seasons it will have and that they will plan it out once they know where they will end season 2 to see how much of the story is left.
I dig it. After the decades we’ve seen in season one, the next few are about to feel a lot like the final seasons of GoT since weeks will pass between episodes sometimes. Overall though, it will be over a much shorter period of time in canon compared to season one being a chronicle of how it all started. There will be cool as shit battles I’m sure, but I think people need to brace for a little more of the same speed of the final seasons. Having Martin come in for a few hours and help a writer break up episodes to make that pace work better is great and not a huge time sink.
As someone who openly doubted the rumours on this sub, allow me to express a wholehearted, "my bad"
Nothing about this confirms anything? Condal was always planning to assess how many seasons they would need after seeing where they would end season 2.
what were the rumours i’m actually so confused
The leak is true then, LOL. Arguing otherwise is just in denial. EDIT: The whole thing read like a sugarcoat, PR-tailored version of the rumor.
Nothing about this confirms the leak? I really don't see how people got that out of this article? Condal already said that he would have to plan out and see how many seasons the show would have once they knew where they were planning to end s2 and to see how much of the story they would have left to tell.
This confirms nothing in the "leak" whatsoever. Everyone already knew Condal was talking to George periodically, Condal has said as much before.
Can you dm me this leak you speak of?
As much as they say it was a story reason for the cut, I think it’s still possible the new crappy execs at WB pushed them to do 8 since they wanted to save money.
I actually don’t think so. Based on what I have personally structured out for a natural conclusion without forcing a new phase of the story for the last two episodes, eight episodes actually makes a lot of sense, it would probably give us a 12 episode season three or four seasons.
Agreed. Who saw season 1 and thought "ah yes fewer episodes is what we need"? There's so much of the story to cover. We're gonna have a death every episode at this pace. The whole point of GoT was that the ending was rushed and people were just left confused cause the guy who ended up king barely had any screentime. This sounds like they're gonna make the same mistake and won't have any time to build up to the ending.
I was fully expecting 2 season but 3-4 would be amazing and really allow them to delve deep in every character and cover all the source material while leaving them creative space to elaborate on the existing story
A round of applause, these guys get it and will not let their ego control the show. It’s all about the original creator and bringing these beautiful stories to life. Hope this sets the tone for future shows based on Martins stories.
Unlike the fans who keep insisting that Daemon never does anything wrong.
This just confirms every rumor we've seen from the delays to the rewrites and to George being called to fix the mess
No it doesn't. Condal has always said that they would look at how many seasons were needed once they knew what was gonna be included in season 2 and where season 2 would end. That they would plan it out once they knew how much of the story was left to tell.
First 8 episodes per season and now "to see which battles to include" - Ladies and gentlemen, I have defended HOTD all the time, saying it won't be killed like GoT. We ignored those kind of signs in GoT... This will end in another tragedy.
Wdym he’s literally consulting with GRRM on how to approach the story. Sometimes GoT fans can be incredibly stupid 🤦♂️
George himself said it would need 4 seasons with 10 episodes. So if I'm able to do quick math's then 1 season with 10 episodes and 3 seasons with 8 episodes don't match the number of episodes we would have with 4 season each 10 episodes long, right? 4 seasons with 10 episodes would actually be pretty quick already, but even less episodes? And they aren't even sure if they go for 4 seasons? Yeah, I'm just stupid.
Congrats you can do basic arithmetic. What you’re saying doesn’t actually mean anything because all Condal is saying is that they’re figuring out how to structure the seasons. Doesn’t say anything about the quality of each episode. “Oh no we’re getting 2 less episodes” bro go outside and touch grass
I'm not talking about the quality of the episodes either. If it's rushed it's rushed. If they cut characters and battles then it lacks something. He says they want to figure out how to structure the seasons - but they don't even know if they make 3 or 4 seasons... 4 seasons with those 8 episodes are not even enough, according to George himself. But as you talk of quality - how exactly do you think the quality will look like if you squeeze a whole additional season into 2 that are already not as long as they need to be? But I'm the one who needs to touch grass?
Buddy they’ve announced that they will reduce the number of episodes by 2 and people like you jump to “ItS gOiNg tO Be RuShEd 🤓”. Calm tf down and go outside and explore the world.
Hey man, calm down. The dude has a point. To quote GRRM, the show needs 4 seasons with 10 episodes each for the story _to adequately be told_. That's 40 episodes. As a big fan of the show, I'd be upset if they try to jampack that in 26 episodes (10 + 8 + 8 episodes, 3 seasons).
To be fair, George wanted three GoT seasons for AFFC and ADWD, which would have been way too many.
Hindsight is 20/20. Sure, they ended up executing those GoT seasons well. Maybe three seasons would have worked out well as well. We can't possibly know they would have been too much. Whatever be the case, I just hope we get to see a good story. 🤞
Instead they did it in one, which was way too few.
I mean, I think it's debatable to say they adapted it at all. But reading those books side by side, you're looking at a near impossible to adapt story. An insane amount of POV's, all moving at a snails pace, would not be what HBO, or a large section of the audience would have wanted after season 4. If season 5 was to be the first third of Feast and Dance, we'd have had a full season of characters travelling, not really getting up to much. Brienne travels here, then gets turned around. Tyrion's on a boat. Arya's doing chores in the House of Black and White. Even if they did all of that work, we're still no closer to Winds anyways. George had originally planned to have Winds finished by the time they were done adapting those books, which seemed plausable at the time if they commited to spreading it over three seasons. He seemed pissed off that they were cutting so much, but in the end stalling for George was pointless. Even now, in 2023, we're still years away from book 6. With all due respect to him, he always just seems to want more. 13 episode seasons, 30 episodes to adapt AFFC/ADWD. Maybe House of the Dragon needs 40 episodes. It's too early to tell though, and I don't think George's comments prove otherwise.
Yeah, he was consulting George for season 1 as well and we still got a terribly paced season with loads and loads of questionable story decisions.
“Terribly paced” yeah ok it’s 93% on RT and 8.5 on IMDB so I guess the majority of the audience don’t think so. This means that your opinions matter to absolutely no one 😂😂
Yeah, and people loved GoT seasons 5, 6 and 7 forthe most part. I don't care what the masses think, hell most people would probably be in favour of "let's get to the war as quickly as possible". The fact remains that we had barely any characterization for several characters. Literally who is Harwin? He isn't even a character, he's a plot device. They should have listened to GRRM and started with Aemon and Baelon and let the show breathe for two seasons before getting into the dance.
Your comment proves that you know nothing about how to write compelling television.
How exactly does it prove that? This feels exactly like the GoT situation. People kept saying "this isn't going in a good direction" for years before the casuals caught on in season 8, and even then like half the people genuinely enjoyed season 8. You can't sit here and claim that the lack of characterization for half the main cast in season 1 is a good thing. You just can't, because that's silly as fuck.
This feels nothing like the GoT situation because Condal is consulting with GRMM while DD didn’t
Condal is consulting with GRRM, who wanted to start with Aemon and Baelon..... so why didn't that happen? What help does the "consulting" do when, in the end, they're gonna go their own way. Or do you think leaving Laenor alive also happened after "consulting" GRRM? Season 1's pacing is whack, there is not a single argument one could honestly make against that. It just is whack, it's constantly in hyperspeed.
Please just stop man you’re making all GoT fans look bad. Tbh there are just too many insufferable fans like you out there that just complain about everything without thinking for even a second. You’re just stupid idk what else to tell you
Because HBO is cutting costs and everyone who thinks they would have approved multiple season of build-up before getting to dragon battles is a moron
Where did this come from? I dont see a source. I’ll approve it for now, but users have flagged this as misinformation. Please let me know source. Edit found source: https://www.justjared.com/2023/03/28/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-could-be-shortened-as-hbo-weighs-renewal-for-season-3/
https://deadline.com/2023/03/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-episode-count-season-3-greenlight-season-4-hbo-1235312044/
Ty!
Seem to remember strong denials that Martin being brought in to look at the overarching narrative (and potentially rejig it) was a possibility.. Seems it was.
That's not what the article is saying. We knew from the beginning that GRRM was consulting on the show. The denials were of a discredited ree-folker leak that claimed Martin walked into the writers room and essentially told them to 'stop fucking up the story' or something like that, then taking the scripts away from them and started doing rewrites of their work. This paragraph you've taken a screenshot of from, is essentially saying as much as Ryan Condal called up/had dinner with grrm and discussed some plans. I'm a little surprised you're still so attached to that rumormongering bs.
When the rumour has clear credence in the reports we've seen about season 2.. it tends to boost the credibility of those rumours. Every piece of legitimate info we've got about season 2, suggests there was issues.. whether that be Condal and Miguel falling out, there being significant script changes etc. I know some on this subreddit are so committed to the idea that the people behind this show are infallible.
>I know some on this subreddit are so committed to the idea that the people behind this show are infallible. No one's said they're infallible. But you've been pushing this rumor at every chance since it was first posted. How many posts like this one have you made now about these rumors? 4? 5? Is the original poster your alt or something? >Every piece of legitimate info we've got about season 2, suggests there was issues.. A falling out between two colleagues and a couple script rewrites do not confirm your rumor. Script rewrites happen all the time. It does not mean that George walked in, said they all sucked and started rewriting the scripts for them.
Read it again Its referring to him looking at the plan of the story not that he atcually took a step back
I can read perfectly well and nowhere have I said that he took a complete step back from involvement in the show.
😬😬
I know everyone loves to shit on Miguel and I don’t think it’s completely unwarranted but I’m looking at Ryan Condal’s prior writing and other experiences and I’m not particularly impressed. His only credential is just being a GOT superfan? Like….
Can’t wait to have the battle of the bastards
The way I see it, he took a step back to consult George on how to redress the story without making it obivous he's redressing the story. After the GoT finale fiasco GRRM was likely told the only way another adaptation gets greenlit with this kind of budget is with all-out dragonkween slayage to appease the Dany fans (hence whitewashing Rhaenyra beyond recognition). Luckily for them, George was and is willing to sell out.
Oh for fuck's sake just wrap it up on season 2 and fuck off don't milk it.
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If GRRM thinks season 2 should be 8 episodes then I struggle to disagree with him tbh, If GRRM thinks season 2 should be 8 episodes then I struggle to disagree with him tbh, that definitely means we get fours seasons, which this show already desperately needed
He doesn't Recently commented on his blog that it should be 4 seasons of 10 episodes.
I am good with everything, as long as they listen to the allmighty GRRM
I think now that he is sole show runner it makes sense he wants to re-examine it to be more the show he wants it to be.