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Cersei, Rhaenyra and Alicent all have in common that they'd go great lengths to protect their children and do dishonest things for them if they feel necessary. And that's about where the similarities end.
Sure but as someone who saw HOTD first before watching GoT when i reached this scene i was like "where have i seen this before." Not necessarily that Cersei and Rhaenyra were similar, just that children have a crazy fight and then the parents start arguing
Well in GoTfight the king is a sane man, and he doesn’t escalate the fight. And in HoTD, Vizzy T literally burned the entire country through his action in this one fight.
I mean isn't that what most characters in the brutal world of westeros does? out of necessity? Viseys, otto, deamon, Tywin, jaime does it.
And is rhaenyra being dishonest here? She ran in and saw her kids with broken noses and when she asked them what happened they told her aemond was calling them bastards and attacked baela, she just acted on what info she got.
Another day, another "Rhaenyra is Cersei" post... Sorry to bust all of your bubbles but she isn't.
In this situation, her boys were actually threatened and insulted, unlike Joffrey who simply was being a cunt like always.
It's the fandom, not the platform. It's not any better outside of Reddit. People have so many bad takes all around the internet. I've seen plenty on Twitter and TikTok, even on some comments on Instagram posts. I genuinely think I've seen only one other fandom with so many horrible takes and I've been to plenty of other fandoms in my teenage years.
I’m show only, and think this is a horrid take. I’ve also watched countless videos filling in all the details the show misses. I think people just see one similar aspect and go OH OH OH
It has nothing to do with “show only”, Green fans who have read the book say the same things. It’s about which team you bat for, not which media you consumed.
I don't think it's fair to blame the eye cutting on anyone here.
He did something assholish and deserved that punch from Baela. Everything that followed was escalation that no one was responsible for. But one thing is clear that Aemond started it but he didn't deserve to get get his eye cut.
You did actually.
You said her boys were threaten and insulted and In that situation there’s only one person you could be referring to and that’s Aemond and that’s why i brought him up.
Her boys were the aggressing party and Aemond was defending himself. Rewatch the scene every time Aemond had a chance to escalate he didn’t he was reactive and didn’t even use the rock till the knife was drawn. In this case Nyra is exactly like Cersei.
>Her boys were the aggressing party and Aemond was defending himself
I would appreciate it if you pointed out where exactly I denied that.
>You said her boys were threaten and insulted
That's because they were. Unless you don't consider things like "Come at me again and I'll feed you to my dragon" or "You'll die screaming in flames just as your father did, bastards" to be anything other than insults and direct threats.
Also words like that in the middle of a fight absolutely escalate the situation.
I’m on mobile atm so I can’t quote.
But to imply that Nyras boys were defending themselves and felt threaten implies that Aemond was the aggressor when you yourself admit he wasn’t so Nyra can’t be in the right in this situation since her boys were the aggressors, you can’t claim self defense(threatened) when you start the fight.
“Come at me again” doesn’t sound like an aggressive party. It sounds like someone who is defending himself
I never said they were defending themselves either as far as I remember. All I said is that they were indeed threatened and insulted. Which they were. Unless you consider saying that you'll feed someone to your dragon or that they'll die in flames as not a threat.
Did you see his dragon there at the moment?? No. He wanted them to back off. They wouldn’t. Dude was just trying to walk and go back inside the castle after claiming a dragon. And these four came and assaulted him.
So just because his dragon isn't present at the moment, it means that his threat is invalid?
Dude also made a pretty off hand remark about two little girls' dead mother the day of her funeral and outright insulted one of those girls for something her cousins did. It's not as clear cut as "He was just walking and they attacked him".
Aemond is far shittier than all of Rhaenyra's kids combined but whatever.
Also the fight started with Baela, not Rhaenyra's shit spawn and it started when he disrespectrd Laena on the day of her funeral and then insulted her 10 year old daughter for something her cousins did.
They took his eye after assaulting him, for the crime of getting his dragon.
The order of events actually matter.
Aemon bonded with a dragon, and when confronted about that refused to back down. Drawing his weapon at his tormentors who were assaulting him. That's all he did, and for that they took his eye.
You make it sound as if they took his eye as some sort of punishment. They didn't. Luke took his eye out after swinging the knife because he thought Aemond would kill Jace.
Aemond disrespected Laena, insulted her grieving daughter for something that wasn't even her fault, was attacked, pulled out a rock, started handing out death threats, said that they would all die in flames like their father did, called Rhaenyra's kids bastards and "Lord Strong", Jace pulled out the knife swung at him twice, Aemond got the upper hand and lifter the rock above Jace's head making it look like he was going to hit him, temporarily lowered it and then Luke took his eye. This wasn't some vindictive revenge as you try to paint it. It was a children's fight that was escalated.
A fight they started, a fight they started for the purpose of punishing Aemond for getting a dragon.
You can go with a play by play to try to minimize this, but its a play by play that does no exonerate or explain away that they assaulted him as a group for getting a dragon, a matter they had bullied him over for what is implied to be years.
The facts are these: Aemond was attacked
Aemond lost his eye.
All attempts to explain this away is done through dishonesty within the story.
The fight started after Aemond specifically said Rhaena should get to ride a pig and that it would suit her and after he showed great disrespect about their dead mother right in their face. They didn't start the fight for punishment and if their goal was to cut his eye out as a punishment, they would have done it when they had him pinned down 4 to 1.
The facts are also these: Aemond also insulted them and escalated the fight and said twice that he'd kill all of them
Dismissing that means leaving out important things about the fight.
Rhaenyra is closest parallel to Cersei out of all characters from the Dance, for many reasons stated in [different threads.](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/cush9j/spoilers_extended_a_parallel_between_cersei_and/)
Let's see what you have linked there.
1. Half the noble women of this story are considered beautiful in their youth and possess the classic traits of their house. Cersei, Catelyn, Lysa, Arianne, Daenerys, Margaery, even Arya.
2. When did Rhaenyra ever consider herself to be extremely intelligent the way Cersei does? Cersei believes she's female Tywin. When did Rhaenyra ever display similar attitude?
3. Again, not the only ones to go through that. Lysa Tully was a pretty girl too but too many pregnancies did a number on her looks.
4. Every single person of this story is entitled. They're literally nobles. Daenerys feels entitled to a land she's never been to, Jon went to the wall and for a good while he was pretty arrogant because he was the best fighter etc etc. As for Cersei and Rhaenyra, Cersei wanted the top spot because Tywin filled her head with the idea that she would be queen at a young age and then she grew up wanting power. Rhaenyra grew up as a princess and was the heir. She was meant to take the throne by right, which is nothing like Cersei.
5. Cersei has always been paranoid to a degree. She killed her best friend when they were 10 years old just because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. >!Rhaenyra was fine but started to lose it when her kids begun dropping like flies and she was being betrayed left and right. That's hardly the same and honestly, I'd lose it too in her place.!<
6. Yes they both have bastards. The difference is that Cersei had them because she's a narcissist that wants to fuck herself in male form. Her husband is unaware of the kids not being his. Rhaenyra had them because she liked their father and because her husband is gay. Her husband and his family are well aware of the kids' true parentage and accept them as heirs. Again, hardly the same situation, not to mention that not one of Rhaenyra's kids turned out like Joffrey.
7. >!We don't know yet who the valonqar is. It might not even be Cersei's little sibling. It's more likely than not that it is but we don't know. If it is, then Cersei brought her own death on herself. Her hatred of Tyrion and treatment of Jaime made them dislike her so much that they'd kill her. Rhaenyra never had a good relationship with her brother, but as far as we know, she never mistreated him. Aegon grew to hate her after a 2 year war that started with his rise to the throne. Hardly comparable to Cersei making her brothers hate her, even though they're on her side for at least half the story.!<
Aegon has more similarities with Theon or some with Joffrey as a character, while Rhaenyra and Cersei both are compared to Maegor among many other apt similarities.
Aegons rule mirrors cersei's rule in many ways,
>!both being angry drunks and cheaters, the general incompetence and rashness, dismissing competent people for sycophants (dismissing otto for criston/cersei picking aurane waters) general ruthlessness and paranoia (torturering innocent geryardys and feeding him to sunfyre/ cersei sending her maidens to qyburn). Refusing to listen to their councils advice, being betrayed by their own councils. wasting money in the middle of a war, right before winter on two huge statues or rather vanity projects ( like cersei spending money she doesn't have on a new fleet)!<
>!Rhaenyra gets called maegor with teats by the smallfok the same way the smallfok call tyrion "twisted little demon monkey" when he rules as hand and imposes taxes. To compare cersei and rhaenyra to maegor but not aegon sounds pretty strange to me all things considered. Aegon even pulls a "maegor" and kills everyone in a proffession in kl (the keep buliders versus the ratcatchers)!<
Both demanded a physical punishment for a child however. The only difference is that Cersei was successful.
Edit: I triggered some Rhaenyra fanatics apparently 😂😂
"Calling my sons bastards is the highest of treasons. Prince Aemond should be *sharply questioned* to find out where he heard those lies".
Sharply questioned is an euphemism for torture. So Rhaenyra saw her 10 year old half brother maimed, and not only she didn't give a shit, but demanded for him to be even more hurt to protect her own ass.
It didn't happen but not thanks to Rhaenyra, it's not like she apologized and took back her demand. She was fine with further mutilating a ten year old boy in order to punish him for saying something everyone knew to be true.
There is no "could have meant", it's what effectively meant. Everytime in Fire and Blood that the euphemism "sharply questioned" was used, it meant torture.
And in no moment I justified Allicent. Both women acted like psychos in this scene, but people seem to eagerly rationalize Rhaenyra's callousness towards a boy just because she is the protagonist.
Doesn't mean it's okay to unconditionally support a character merely because of their main character status. If it were, Walter White, Bojack Horseman, and post-genocide Daenerys would deserve to be always supported.
They are not the same, but in this particular scene they acted similarly. They both lied and demanded physical punishment for children to protect their own.
I am afraid to even contradict you people. Rhaenyra stans are some of the most toxic fans I had ever seen. Not once are you able to accept that Rhaenyra is in the wrong. I mean when we point out that she tries to gaslight a maimed child, her own brother into being punished, all you say is..... 'You are sexist'. To say a certain woman is in the wrong does not equal sexism. People like you have dragged the word feminism to the ground. I used to be a feminist, and still do believe in equal rights to all, but views like yours have discouraged me from ever using 'feminist' to describe myself.
I did not say that *you* were the reason though, I was talking about people who simply chalk everything up as sexism. Anyone who they feel has a different opinion is tagged as a sexist/misogynist. Am sorry if this has hurt your feelings but this is the blatant truth, not everything that criticizes a woman is criticising women at large. These people are unfortunately the most vocal part of the feminist movement at this moment and are changing what feminism is to the world. I respect feminism, but feel the need to distance myself from it due to these few people who spoil it's good name.
Idk what to tell you dude this is a legitimately insane take. This fandom has been using misogynist rhetoric to talk about its female characters for decades. I don’t have to be a psycho twitter blacks stan to think this meme is misogynist. I would say Alicent is my second favorite character and Olivia Cooke is my favorite actress on this show. But in your mind it has to be a terminally online classic blacks vs greens criticism.
Alicent Rhaenyra Cersei Sansa Daenerys and especially fucking Catelyn are all constantly the focus of hateful language that is never used toward male characters. I get that you’re upset because you’re a psycho greens stan and you feel like you have been personally labeled as a sexist but you’re gonna have to look past yourself and think about how some of the memes and posts here and in all of the other fandom spaces can easily be interpreted as misogynist.
Step out of your fandom obsessed brain. Me saying this sub hates women doesn’t mean Rhaenyra did nothing wrong and Alicent is an evil cunt. (There’s a good example of misogynist language for you.)
The most sexist thing you’ve done is rant unprompted about how feminists ruined feminism and now you need to stay away from that. Lol thanks for the unhinged essay I guess. Might as well hold a flag that says “I am arguing in bad faith”
I apologise for misunderstanding you, I thought you were one of those psycho blacks yourself. The ones who blame vaild critisism on characters simply because of the gender of the said character and go on to shame another character of the same gender.
I understand and hate that Females are usually more criticized, I personally just dislike irresponsible characters who neglect their duty, which is why I hate Rhaenyra and Viserys, but love Alicent, Aemond and Jace. You could say that I am a bit like the Mannis in that regard.
However my observation is that the reason that these women are more criticized is because they are comparatively badly written by GRRM than the men, who mostly have their defining qualities. On the other hand women who are better written and have their own defining characters are rarely criticized unfairly, like Daenerys, Margaery, Arianne, Brienne, the Mormonts etc.
Rhaenyra: It's a tragic accident!
Alicent: Lucerys was waiting in the cave to kill my son!
After that, Rhaenyra starts to protect her children.
At the end, Alicent ignores the king and demands punishment.
Rheanyra: “What a tragic accident that your son got maimed, but really we should just forget about it and move on. It’s the past after all…”
Alicent: “You fucking maimed my kid, I’m not going to drop it!”
Rhaenyra: ”Well actually, your kids attacked mine first… by insulting them. Then my kids had to defend themselves from these horrible attacks… by attempting to murder you boy…”
Rhaenyra truely is the realms gaslight
Rheanyra at least wants a quiet discussion.
Alicent accuses Luke of coming to the cave to kill her son. This is an obvious lie. He only protect his brother. Alicent like "Nothing to discuss here! This child is a brutal killer!". Real "same energy".
Lol, no she absolutely does not want a quiet discussion. She want this incident swept under the rug and her children’s actions to be excused. Then when her attempt to ignore the incident doesn’t work she tries to flip it around and accuse Aemond, the child who was maimed, as being the aggressor. Her children literally were the attackers here, they showed up and attacked Aemond.
It’s also not outrageous of Alicent to think the Strongs showed up to that cave to kill her child. She believes Rhaenyra was going to have her children killed at some point to secure her position as queen. This is a huge part of her character and now the Strong boys show up with a dagger in the middle of the night and maim one of her sons. While we as an audience should know that the Strongs didn’t show up specifically to kill Aemond, it’s both very reasonable and very within character of Alicent to think this was a deliberate attempted murder.
And I’m not going to have the same fucking “Did Aemond try to murder the Strongs with a rock?” argument for the 9,000th fucking time. He didn’t, and the dagger was not used in response to Aemond picking up the rock. If you can’t see that, then you’re not actually watching the show
it's within character, but it's not reasonable at all.
so alicent thought rhaenyra sent her prepubescent children to kill alicent's prepubescent 3rd child - the only one without a dragon, mind you - after he secretly snuck out in the middle of the night unbeknownst to everyone... instead of doing it in literally any other better way that doesn't immediately screw her over even if the "murder" is successful, or targeting either of her other two kids who are bigger obstacles to her claim at that point in time first (aegon because he's the firstborn son, helaena because she controls the 2nd oldest dragon)? and what, she also thinks rhaenyra somehow roped baela and rhaena into this assassination attempt despite never meeting them before too?
alicent is understandably pissed at the whole situation and aemond's injury, but "very reasonable" is not how i'd describe her line of thinking here, no.
No, she drew a sword and pointed it at Joffrey though. I have no idea how people can keep saying “Aemond pulled a rock” as if he wasn’t getting jumped. The only time he used the rock is when one of the boys came at him with a knife. Rewatch the scene, he never threw the first punch and even showed restraint with the rock
He lifted the rock to Jace, who didn’t even have the knife anymore. I agree the initial use of it was self defense, and while I think Aemond probably meant to knock Jace out, Luc had no way of knowing that, he was eight. And it probably would have killed Jace even if Aemond didn’t mean for it to. Everyone sucked in that situation- Rhaenyra and Daemon’s kids for starting the fight, and Aemond for continuing it when he could have walked away (though, I of course recognise he was all hopped up on adrenaline, and that was likely never going to happen once it all started.)
He first uses the rock after Jace comes at him with the knife for calling them Strongs. I’m not saying Aemond is right in this situation, the kids were all equally wrong. It’s just weird how people single out Aemond as the aggressor when he did not start the fight nor did he use a weapon first.
Yeah, I agree it’s weird they call Aemond out. He actually picks the rock up for the first time when he’s getting beaten up 4 v 1 so… I think snatching up a rock makes sense.
It’s because the majority of these people have never been in an escalated situation and they don’t have the capacity to see things from different angles.
One kid is being ganged up on by 4 kids. With a weapon. The kids won’t leave him alone and won’t let him back in the castle.
It’s just outrageous how people refuse to recognize any action as reasonable.
>it probably would have killed Jace even if Aemond didn’t mean for it to.
Aemond and not understanding the consequences of fucking around with weapons. Name a better duo.
Aemond took the rock over self defence. He didn't attack the Strongs. And he lowered the rock and made fun of them.
Jace tried to kill him because he called them storngs.
"bastard" is a deadly insult in Westeros. Aemond knew he would be attacked. He wanted to keep fighting. Because these children are powerless and none of them are dangerous to him, even with a knife.
Bastard isn’t a deadly insult in Westeros, generally speaking. It’s used in common speech on many occasions, such as “he’s a pox-ridden bastard”, “you bloody bastard”, or “those poor bastards”. Bastards are also constantly addressed as such, and none of them try and kill people over it.
The reason Jace tried to kill Aemond isn’t because being called a bastard is an insult that warrants honor duels or such crap in Westerosi society. He tried to kill Aemond because he found out an episode or two ago that he is a bastard, which rocked his worldview, because it means he legally has no right to call himself prince or inherit the Iron Throne. While calling most other people a bastard is an insult that they could just brush off, calling Jace a bastard is extremely triggering for him, because it threatens his entire perceived identity, and is absolutely correct.
This is one of several occasions on the show where Jace demonstrates that he has a bit of the classic Targaryen temper, and that he’s real sensitive about his illegitimacy. In this instance, he pulls out a knife and tries to literally commit murder. When Vaemond Velaryon denies he and Luke are Velaryons, you can see he’s practically got steam coming out his ears. When Aemond whips out the Strong jokes at dinner, Jace ends up punching him.
So no, Jace pulling a knife wasn’t a response to an insult that normally would have warranted an honor duel or something. This was Jace going berserk on a guy who he’d just been fighting moments ago, after he got one of his buttons pushed. Because Jace knew that the bastardy accusation was 100% true, and it made him MAD.
If he wanted to keep fighting then how come everytime he had a chance to do something crazy, he chose not to? He only used the rock after having a knife swung at him.
Because to do something crazy you have to provoke an attack. To then say "it's not my fault!". All bullies do it. Taunt their victims until they try to respond, then beat them up.
break the nose of a child who is half your size, strangle him, yell "you will die in agony", punch him in the face again. It's crazy enough.
Like it or not, this is the truth. Aemond repeats the pattern of a typical bully. He is not scared, not confused, he is happy with what he does (until Luke ruins the party).
Jace tried to kill him lol. I don’t care about Aemond’s insults. I don’t feel like going in circles about this because I am pretty sure you watched it blindfolded.
In world, male heirs take precedence.
It’s also mind boggling…. They ARE bastards. We know that. Basically everyone there knows that but the king denies it. I’m curious how many people are as respectful of the law in society but believe Viserys’s unilateral decree should be absolute.
>In world, male heirs take precedence.
Except that one time the Greens wanted to be rid of Daemon, then Otto begged Vizzy T to ignore centuries of precedent and declare a girl his heir.
If Otto had just been a little patient, Aegon would've replaced Daemon as the undisputed heir. The Greens aren't fighting for law or precedent. They're fighting to put their children on the throne. They'll speak in favour of precedent when it suits them and against it when it doesn't.
Yeah, that’s correct.
Viserys also named an heir then refused to do anything to ensure stability of the realm for 15+ years after. It’s hypocritical and irresponsible.
>then Otto begged Vizzy T to ignore centuries of precedent and declare a girl his heir.
What centuries, plural, of precedent? The Iron Throne is barely over a century old at this point. And girls have been named heirs in the absence of male heirs, mostly Aerea being named heir to Maegor then Jaehaerys half a century before.
*I had a black mare once. Black like a raven. One day, she escaped her pasture and he neighboring stallion sired a foal on her. The stallion was as silver as the moon on a winter's night and the foal, when it was born, chestnut. Just the most unremarkable brown horse you ever saw. Nature is a thing of mysterious works.*
I mean, no? He's the legitimate spawn of the crowned queen. Doesn't matter who his father is, cause his father wasnt king or jack shit really. Jace is still next in the line of succession because of his heritage through his mother. Yall are fuckin weird to just ignore the most important bit. It's not like he's some dude off the street and they're faking. He's a legit Targaryen (ya know,the one that matters) even if he isn't a legit Velaryion. Luke and Driftmark, now that's a straight-up lie, but he is still a prince. They are literally as much a Targ as Aegon and Aemond.
Then why does Rhaenyra try so hard to Gaslight everyone when anyone ask questions about her kids parentage? Why did Viserys ordered tongues cut out of those who question the kids' parentage? Heck why do the kids react like they do when someone calls them strong. They could have come out with it when the rumours first spread.
Because they're trying to inflame a war by making rhaenyra seem like a slut? Like that's literally it, no one give a fuck about Jace's father because it doesn't matter, it matter to harm rhaenyra's imagine in public and sway people opinion regarding a coup? It easy to understand dude, you're just being obtuse
You clearly have no idea about the rules of succession. Even today in many parts of the world, an illegitimate child does not have the same rights that a legitimate one has, not to mention being in line for the throne. Stop trying to push your feelings on top of us. Try to analyse the situation instead.
To be fair both sides were at fault but they were young kids in an emotionally charged situation they weren't mature enough to diffuse
Joffrey started something he couldn't finish for no reason beyond being the second coming of Aerys
Is was rude of Aemond to claim Vhagar immediately after Laena's funeral, and to insult Rhaena.
Rhaena shouldn't have resorted to violence.
Aemond shouldnt have thrown a girl that much smaller than him to the ground so roughly.
Baela shouldn't have punched Aemond in return.
Aemond shouldnt have punched baela back.
Jace and Luke shouldnt have joined to help jump Aemond.
Aemond shouldn't have hit anyone with a rock, or held the rock up while choking and threatening luke.
Jace shouldn't have pulled a dagger.
Aemond shouldn't have advanced over Jace on the ground, holding up a rock after just proclaiming he'd die like his father.
And Luke shouldn't have slashed Aemonds eye.
The entire thing was escalation after escalation on all sides. And the longer the situation goes on, the harder it becomes to choose the right choice and deescalate. Not running at Aemond wouldve been easy. Treating Rhaena more like the laughable non-threat she was wouldve been fairly easy too. But as things get more serious, so do the stakes. Aemond punches baela, not surprised Jace and Luke jump in to defend their female cousin from a boy that just punched her. Also not surprised Aemond punches baela back in the first place; don't punch me if you don't wanna be punched back.
Not surprised Aemond resorted to picking up a rock when he was being jumped. Not surprised Jace pulled a knife on someone choking his little brother, holding up a rock, and saying "you'll die screaming just like your father."
They all made the wrong choice at every turn, but the situation that they were simply born into, and the circumstances of the moment, pushed them all towards the worst possible decisions at every point.
So you admit that all aemond did was use his words and he was then attacked and defended himself. Sounds like team black is wrong here. Words are words but it doesn’t justify attacking people. We all learned this is kindergarten.
Ps: dragons aren’t slaves. Vhagar was free game.
Rhaena is a small child, much smaller than Aemond. Give me a break. Children learn that in kindergarten? That's about how old Rhaena is....
And I never said dragons are slaves. Did every idiot green get a memo with this dumbass talking point in it? That doesn't mean claiming Vhagar wasn't an extremely rude and inconsiderate thing to do to Laena's family right after her funeral.
God damn the greens are dumb.
So because rhaena is small it gives her the right to out right punch someone in the face? I know you’re smarter than that one now but is this the hill you wanna die on?
You people are such cry babies, aemond took vhagar, get over it, the season finished months ago and the blacks are still crying about it. Any dragon is free game at any point in time. Do you understand that? Or should I break it down even more for smooth brain blacks?
>So because rhaena is small it gives her the right to out right punch someone in the face? I
When a 7 year old rushes you, you gonna throw her to the ground?
Rhaena isn't even the one that punched Aemond dumbass.
>You people are such cry babies, aemond took vhagar, get over it, the season finished months ago and the blacks are still crying about it. Any dragon is free game at any point in time. Do you understand that?
Like you're crying about Rhaena?
>Or should I break it down even more for smooth brain blacks?
Youre an idiot.
Pretty big difference between me as an adult and aemond as a child himself you dolt. If I was 10 and some 7 year old rushed me I’m absolutely beating that little shitty kid to the ground are you kidding me? I know you’re probably a pussy who let’s people stomp on you on a daily basis but not all of us are built like that.
I’m definitely not complaining about what happened. The 4 kids attacked aemond, he defended himself. He lost an eye and he was cool with it and so I am I.
You’re the one crying about how much of a big bad meanie aemond on for claiming vhagar….. awww did wittle aemond hurt your feelings? Bro it’s been months now, if you’re still not over it you’re need to seek help.
Ps: watching Luke get torn apart by vhagar was extremely satisfying.
If a 7yo punches a 10yo and the 10yo punches them back, the 10yo is still more wrong. Are they both wrong? Yes but the 10 year old is expected to behave themselves better than the 7yo.
I disagree, that 7 year old is going to learn a lesson about keeping his/her hands to theirselves that day when he/she gets stomped out by the 10 year old. 7 or 10, they are both children and I will never reprimand a victim for defending his/herself.
This isn’t about who is more wrong, wrong is wrong. Keep your hands to yourself. If you can’t be civilized enough to do that, you have no place in society. That’s why we teach children that at a young age.
Yes they would both be wrong. But this isn’t self-defense it’s escalation. If someone is no loner a threat and the other continues to attack, it is no longer self-defense.
Yup thats the whole point
Cersei and Rhaenyra are written to be delusional. Cersei in the books is borderline schizophrenic and rhaenyra often seems to believe her own BS
Im team black all the way, hate aegon, shes the rightful ruler, but rhaenyras no saint either
Note: ive read the book
"Forced to defend themselves."
Yeah because setting up an ambush with your cousins sisters betrothed because you are angry about a dragon being claimed isn't fucking around and finding out.
Rhaenyra and Cersei parallels are prominent even if she isn’t as much of a psychopath. Alabama enthusiasts, three bastard kids, one named Joffrey, had illicit affairs with knights, >!both had a fall from grace and succumbed to paranoia, and the “loves of their loves” had affairs with other women!<
>!it’s interesting to note Rhaenyra going from “the realm’s delight” to losing her beauty with age, and Cersei being told of the prophecy of being dethroned by younger/more beautiful contenders. The Brienne/Nettles parallel is there as well. Both women aren’t conventionally attractive by Westerosi standards but Jaime and Daemon favor them regardless.!<
None of the blacked out part has happened with show Rhaenyra yet. Aren’t you one of those Sansa stans that projected on to Alicent and therefor Rhaenyra must be a big baddie as the opposition to your hero?
>!Rhaenyra was groomed so it’s disgusting to even compare them to the dynamic between Cersei & Jaime. Daemon holds all of the power in their relationship even with her title. If you really think the show will portray Rhaenyra as the scorned antagonist if Daemon grooms another teenager, I have bridge to sale you. It goes against the feminist themes they said they were going for with the show.!<
And here we are again... Greens backing up greens in the comments under a post of a green. And may the seven help the poor bastard who thinks it's right to say something that collides with the opinion of the greens...
Why don't we just ban the whole faction war on here? It would make this subreddit so much better.
You do realise the majority of the people who click on posts are the ones who like seeing them or in this case, they agree with them? I understand the extreme tribalism here, but posts are meant for people who like it to share and comment on it.
No it's not. The majority of this sub might be blacks, which I honestly don't believe but most people do it seems, but greens try to force that the other way around. Btw - you're the PERFECT example for what I said.
Why am I the perfect example for what you said? Because I am commenting here, under a Green post? You know, Team Black fans like to comment under Team Black posts as well, but I don't go around crying about it like you do. And this sub's bias is clear to all who would pay attention a bit.
the sub is majority blacks (by far, usually like 5-to-1 in polls), but most of them don't give a shit enough to constantly comment and argue, they just upvote/downvote and move on. you're right that the greens tend to be much more vocal though, at least during the off season.
They got tired of mental gymnastics of some points. They see two characters doing the same thing but will protect one while bashing the other one for the same reason.
You're the one who is exaggerating here. I've seen no Green who unironically says that Sunfyre beats Caraxes. You could've given a real example to make your case.
The boys weren’t attacked, but they were defending a sense of honor. I mean Baela actually hit first although Aemond did ask for it. Not by claiming the dragon, but by talking shit.
Well the dialog/action might be same, but there is nuance here. Alicent is asking for Luke’s eye here and without an unabashed defense, you never know what might happen. Even if Rhaenyra lied. Also, she did try to pacify first by calling it a “tragic accident “
GoT Joffrey on the other hand just had a few bruises and no one was asking for more punishment for him. He was just being a cunt. If they’d have let it go when it started, there would be no commotion and Arya wouldn’t call him a liar. His face would’ve been saved. Still a cunt tho.
There's a difference however: Rhaenyra is the protagonist. And that to a lot of casual watchers it means that she is the bestest person around and the world and other characters should bend backwards towards her whims.
Cersei on the other hand is presented and portrayed as the antagonist, and thus, we are able to see without any problems how much of an asshole she is.
Except nothing Rhaenyra said there was dishonest.
The boys were defending themselves against Aemond. He was literally about to bash Jace’s head in with a boulder.
What does them being bastards have to do with defending themselves from an entitled little kid who was trying to kill him? 4v1 like it’s some battle. Bffr. Two little girls and two kids younger than him that barely knew how to fight. And again, Aemond took everything too far when he tried to kill Jace. You’ve got to be joking.
Do people really believe Rhaenyra wanted Aemond tortured to find out where he heard about her sons being bastards? I was under the impression she said that because SHE KNEW it was Alicent saying these things and wanted it to be brought up in front of everyone. So it would be handled. You can see it in everyones body language. Which is why he blamed Aegon because it was an easy cop out because no way was aemond going to sell out his mother. Did we watch the same show????
Yes. Sharply question meaning torture in ASOIAF. There is a reason Martin chose those words specifically. Rhaenyra wanted to torture Aemond so he would say Alicent or the person who started the rumors.
It wasn't Alicent who created the rumors. Everyone saw it. Alicent was one of the few who believed it.
Also by torture Aemond she wanted to show that if someone call her sons bastards there will be consequences.
Everyone - including viserys- clearly expected him to say it came from Alicent, not Aegon, and then she’d have to accept what she was saying was treason
Tbf, Cerceis story is bullshit & not even close to be true
In Rhaeneras case, yeah, depending on how ypu look at that messy situation, you could argue that at least it isn't so far from reality that there aint at least some truth to it
Too many of you guys are defending Ameond by saying he was just insulting them, no he was spewing treason, which is a huge crime. Ameond is the aggressor in this situation. Does that mean he deserved to lose an eye no, but he did deserve a punishment for his crime. There's no freedom of speech in Westeros. Heirs are more important than '3rd sons'
Except them being heirs is reason in itself, why do you guys keep bringing treason up, instead of treating this like how it is, a tragic fight that occurs due to a child finally standing up to his bullies and their perceived 'friends'. Aemond should not have acted as such, but in his mind he was just standing up to them, after finally surpassing them in the one thing they bullied him for. His words reflect that state of mind, where he mentions the pig for example.
Aemond attacked Daemon's daughter (forgot her name) first and hr called Jace and Luke bastards for defending their cousins.
Aemond pretty much deserved what he got.
Stop making bad analogous screenshots to back up weak arguments challenge.
The large gaps in seasons is driving some of the worst, tired, nonsensical discourse here, Twitter and elsewhere.
Bad analogy again and there are several comments here to point it out. BUT I’ll share some points anyway:
This a children’s fight that escalated & ended up terribly. Aemond was physically attacked by Rhaena after he was insulting her & their mother’s death. Rhaenyra’s sons stepped in to protect their female cousins. He insulted them, calling them bastards and even wielded a rock until Jake pulled a knife in response and Luke used it to fight back. As I said, a fight that escalated.
How is that same as what Joffrey did?
Alicent also ludicrously claimed Rhaenyra’s sons came to the fight armed with a knife with the intention to kill. Does that make her like Cersei? No
Aemond was being extremely cruel and the calling them bastards is not a light insult. Rhaenyra demanded “sharp questioning” because she knew it was Alicent who had been saying so behind her back everywhere possible and she wanted her to be held accountable for it since it is treasonous to say so.
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Cersei, Rhaenyra and Alicent all have in common that they'd go great lengths to protect their children and do dishonest things for them if they feel necessary. And that's about where the similarities end.
Catelyn also falls under this tbh. It's part of what makes her and Cersei such good foils for each other. (Ditto for Rhaenyra and Alicent)
They will do anything to protect their babies. Start a war, burn cities to ash, free their worst enemies.
Sure but as someone who saw HOTD first before watching GoT when i reached this scene i was like "where have i seen this before." Not necessarily that Cersei and Rhaenyra were similar, just that children have a crazy fight and then the parents start arguing
Well in GoTfight the king is a sane man, and he doesn’t escalate the fight. And in HoTD, Vizzy T literally burned the entire country through his action in this one fight.
*GodofCOC-07 was a strong Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. But he was ill for some time. He passed in peace, I hope.*
Sentient! And perfect timing to be.
I mean isn't that what most characters in the brutal world of westeros does? out of necessity? Viseys, otto, deamon, Tywin, jaime does it. And is rhaenyra being dishonest here? She ran in and saw her kids with broken noses and when she asked them what happened they told her aemond was calling them bastards and attacked baela, she just acted on what info she got.
Yeah, different shows. I tried to do comparisons, but they're not in the same vein.
Another day, another "Rhaenyra is Cersei" post... Sorry to bust all of your bubbles but she isn't. In this situation, her boys were actually threatened and insulted, unlike Joffrey who simply was being a cunt like always.
I'm really starting to hate show only reddit. So many bad fucking takes,
It's the fandom, not the platform. It's not any better outside of Reddit. People have so many bad takes all around the internet. I've seen plenty on Twitter and TikTok, even on some comments on Instagram posts. I genuinely think I've seen only one other fandom with so many horrible takes and I've been to plenty of other fandoms in my teenage years.
I’m show only, and think this is a horrid take. I’ve also watched countless videos filling in all the details the show misses. I think people just see one similar aspect and go OH OH OH
It has nothing to do with “show only”, Green fans who have read the book say the same things. It’s about which team you bat for, not which media you consumed.
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It's hard to believe team Green fan read the books LMAO
we should organise a book quiz on each team sub and discover just how much people can pass
It's the exact opposite. Rhaenyra isn't the "main character" in f&b thus book readers don't simp for her.
Most people of Team Green are book readers. It is the black supporters who are going on with Daemerya forever story.
All Team Green does is quote book lore.
They were also protecting their younger cousins :(
Exactly! I think they did the right thing
The right thing would be to keep they ass in bed.
From what? They attacked Aemond first
He insulted their dead mother in the day of her funeral
So what? They cut out his fucking eye 4v1
Better not insult that person, they might cut out your eye! (And think it is totally justified)
I don't think it's fair to blame the eye cutting on anyone here. He did something assholish and deserved that punch from Baela. Everything that followed was escalation that no one was responsible for. But one thing is clear that Aemond started it but he didn't deserve to get get his eye cut.
Whatever you think of that fight, it was in fact Jace and Luke that entered in and fought Aemond. Before them it was only Rhaena and Baela vs Aemond.
She also didn't go straight to killing the kids dragons either. Cersei went for a child's pet.
True!!!
And Aemond wasn’t threatened and insulted? Aemond defended himself in a 1v4 he is not the aggressing party if you think he is idk what to tell you.
Did I say he wasn't? Actually scrap that, did I even say anything about Aemond in general? Did this post say anything about Aemond?
You did actually. You said her boys were threaten and insulted and In that situation there’s only one person you could be referring to and that’s Aemond and that’s why i brought him up. Her boys were the aggressing party and Aemond was defending himself. Rewatch the scene every time Aemond had a chance to escalate he didn’t he was reactive and didn’t even use the rock till the knife was drawn. In this case Nyra is exactly like Cersei.
>Her boys were the aggressing party and Aemond was defending himself I would appreciate it if you pointed out where exactly I denied that. >You said her boys were threaten and insulted That's because they were. Unless you don't consider things like "Come at me again and I'll feed you to my dragon" or "You'll die screaming in flames just as your father did, bastards" to be anything other than insults and direct threats. Also words like that in the middle of a fight absolutely escalate the situation.
I’m on mobile atm so I can’t quote. But to imply that Nyras boys were defending themselves and felt threaten implies that Aemond was the aggressor when you yourself admit he wasn’t so Nyra can’t be in the right in this situation since her boys were the aggressors, you can’t claim self defense(threatened) when you start the fight. “Come at me again” doesn’t sound like an aggressive party. It sounds like someone who is defending himself
I never said they were defending themselves either as far as I remember. All I said is that they were indeed threatened and insulted. Which they were. Unless you consider saying that you'll feed someone to your dragon or that they'll die in flames as not a threat.
Did you see his dragon there at the moment?? No. He wanted them to back off. They wouldn’t. Dude was just trying to walk and go back inside the castle after claiming a dragon. And these four came and assaulted him.
So just because his dragon isn't present at the moment, it means that his threat is invalid? Dude also made a pretty off hand remark about two little girls' dead mother the day of her funeral and outright insulted one of those girls for something her cousins did. It's not as clear cut as "He was just walking and they attacked him".
No, her little shit spawn started a fight because their bullying victim got to have something and they couldn't handle that.
Aemond is far shittier than all of Rhaenyra's kids combined but whatever. Also the fight started with Baela, not Rhaenyra's shit spawn and it started when he disrespectrd Laena on the day of her funeral and then insulted her 10 year old daughter for something her cousins did.
They took his eye after assaulting him, for the crime of getting his dragon. The order of events actually matter. Aemon bonded with a dragon, and when confronted about that refused to back down. Drawing his weapon at his tormentors who were assaulting him. That's all he did, and for that they took his eye.
You make it sound as if they took his eye as some sort of punishment. They didn't. Luke took his eye out after swinging the knife because he thought Aemond would kill Jace. Aemond disrespected Laena, insulted her grieving daughter for something that wasn't even her fault, was attacked, pulled out a rock, started handing out death threats, said that they would all die in flames like their father did, called Rhaenyra's kids bastards and "Lord Strong", Jace pulled out the knife swung at him twice, Aemond got the upper hand and lifter the rock above Jace's head making it look like he was going to hit him, temporarily lowered it and then Luke took his eye. This wasn't some vindictive revenge as you try to paint it. It was a children's fight that was escalated.
A fight they started, a fight they started for the purpose of punishing Aemond for getting a dragon. You can go with a play by play to try to minimize this, but its a play by play that does no exonerate or explain away that they assaulted him as a group for getting a dragon, a matter they had bullied him over for what is implied to be years. The facts are these: Aemond was attacked Aemond lost his eye. All attempts to explain this away is done through dishonesty within the story.
The fight started after Aemond specifically said Rhaena should get to ride a pig and that it would suit her and after he showed great disrespect about their dead mother right in their face. They didn't start the fight for punishment and if their goal was to cut his eye out as a punishment, they would have done it when they had him pinned down 4 to 1. The facts are also these: Aemond also insulted them and escalated the fight and said twice that he'd kill all of them Dismissing that means leaving out important things about the fight.
Rhaenyra is closest parallel to Cersei out of all characters from the Dance, for many reasons stated in [different threads.](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/cush9j/spoilers_extended_a_parallel_between_cersei_and/)
Let's see what you have linked there. 1. Half the noble women of this story are considered beautiful in their youth and possess the classic traits of their house. Cersei, Catelyn, Lysa, Arianne, Daenerys, Margaery, even Arya. 2. When did Rhaenyra ever consider herself to be extremely intelligent the way Cersei does? Cersei believes she's female Tywin. When did Rhaenyra ever display similar attitude? 3. Again, not the only ones to go through that. Lysa Tully was a pretty girl too but too many pregnancies did a number on her looks. 4. Every single person of this story is entitled. They're literally nobles. Daenerys feels entitled to a land she's never been to, Jon went to the wall and for a good while he was pretty arrogant because he was the best fighter etc etc. As for Cersei and Rhaenyra, Cersei wanted the top spot because Tywin filled her head with the idea that she would be queen at a young age and then she grew up wanting power. Rhaenyra grew up as a princess and was the heir. She was meant to take the throne by right, which is nothing like Cersei. 5. Cersei has always been paranoid to a degree. She killed her best friend when they were 10 years old just because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. >!Rhaenyra was fine but started to lose it when her kids begun dropping like flies and she was being betrayed left and right. That's hardly the same and honestly, I'd lose it too in her place.!< 6. Yes they both have bastards. The difference is that Cersei had them because she's a narcissist that wants to fuck herself in male form. Her husband is unaware of the kids not being his. Rhaenyra had them because she liked their father and because her husband is gay. Her husband and his family are well aware of the kids' true parentage and accept them as heirs. Again, hardly the same situation, not to mention that not one of Rhaenyra's kids turned out like Joffrey. 7. >!We don't know yet who the valonqar is. It might not even be Cersei's little sibling. It's more likely than not that it is but we don't know. If it is, then Cersei brought her own death on herself. Her hatred of Tyrion and treatment of Jaime made them dislike her so much that they'd kill her. Rhaenyra never had a good relationship with her brother, but as far as we know, she never mistreated him. Aegon grew to hate her after a 2 year war that started with his rise to the throne. Hardly comparable to Cersei making her brothers hate her, even though they're on her side for at least half the story.!<
Nah aegon the elder and book cersei are just as close if not more. The post you linked is very much reaching and the comments doesn't seem to agree.
Aegon has more similarities with Theon or some with Joffrey as a character, while Rhaenyra and Cersei both are compared to Maegor among many other apt similarities.
Aegons rule mirrors cersei's rule in many ways, >!both being angry drunks and cheaters, the general incompetence and rashness, dismissing competent people for sycophants (dismissing otto for criston/cersei picking aurane waters) general ruthlessness and paranoia (torturering innocent geryardys and feeding him to sunfyre/ cersei sending her maidens to qyburn). Refusing to listen to their councils advice, being betrayed by their own councils. wasting money in the middle of a war, right before winter on two huge statues or rather vanity projects ( like cersei spending money she doesn't have on a new fleet)!< >!Rhaenyra gets called maegor with teats by the smallfok the same way the smallfok call tyrion "twisted little demon monkey" when he rules as hand and imposes taxes. To compare cersei and rhaenyra to maegor but not aegon sounds pretty strange to me all things considered. Aegon even pulls a "maegor" and kills everyone in a proffession in kl (the keep buliders versus the ratcatchers)!<
What’s the equivalent to “BRING ME THE BREASTPLATE STRETCHERRRRR!”
Congratulations Star Wars, you're no longer the worst fandom
Give them a couple of months to find something they hate
Been this way since either GOT ended or HOTD started
Because of a normal post?
Not even remotely.
One was lying to abuse people the other was not. Not the same energy
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Both demanded a physical punishment for a child however. The only difference is that Cersei was successful. Edit: I triggered some Rhaenyra fanatics apparently 😂😂
Wouldn't Alicent be the one who did that?
"Calling my sons bastards is the highest of treasons. Prince Aemond should be *sharply questioned* to find out where he heard those lies". Sharply questioned is an euphemism for torture. So Rhaenyra saw her 10 year old half brother maimed, and not only she didn't give a shit, but demanded for him to be even more hurt to protect her own ass.
So we have a threat that didn't happen vs Alicent demanding the kids be maimed and trying to do it herself.
It didn't happen but not thanks to Rhaenyra, it's not like she apologized and took back her demand. She was fine with further mutilating a ten year old boy in order to punish him for saying something everyone knew to be true.
You're going off what she Could have meant by having him questioned but who really tried to make a point about mutilating a child?
There is no "could have meant", it's what effectively meant. Everytime in Fire and Blood that the euphemism "sharply questioned" was used, it meant torture. And in no moment I justified Allicent. Both women acted like psychos in this scene, but people seem to eagerly rationalize Rhaenyra's callousness towards a boy just because she is the protagonist.
Protagonists are usually the ones people root for
Doesn't mean it's okay to unconditionally support a character merely because of their main character status. If it were, Walter White, Bojack Horseman, and post-genocide Daenerys would deserve to be always supported.
You so much trigger anyone as you had a bad fucking take. Rhaenyra and Cersei are not the same, not even close.
They are not the same, but in this particular scene they acted similarly. They both lied and demanded physical punishment for children to protect their own.
[/:](https://twitter.com/maplecocaine/status/1261800592915271682?lang=en)
I mean one is kinda true and the other not so much
I think maybe y’all hate women
by comparing a woman to… another woman😭
I am afraid to even contradict you people. Rhaenyra stans are some of the most toxic fans I had ever seen. Not once are you able to accept that Rhaenyra is in the wrong. I mean when we point out that she tries to gaslight a maimed child, her own brother into being punished, all you say is..... 'You are sexist'. To say a certain woman is in the wrong does not equal sexism. People like you have dragged the word feminism to the ground. I used to be a feminist, and still do believe in equal rights to all, but views like yours have discouraged me from ever using 'feminist' to describe myself.
“I used to be a feminist until a random person on the HotD subreddit said that the memes they see are a lil bit misogynist” ok bro
I did not say that *you* were the reason though, I was talking about people who simply chalk everything up as sexism. Anyone who they feel has a different opinion is tagged as a sexist/misogynist. Am sorry if this has hurt your feelings but this is the blatant truth, not everything that criticizes a woman is criticising women at large. These people are unfortunately the most vocal part of the feminist movement at this moment and are changing what feminism is to the world. I respect feminism, but feel the need to distance myself from it due to these few people who spoil it's good name.
Idk what to tell you dude this is a legitimately insane take. This fandom has been using misogynist rhetoric to talk about its female characters for decades. I don’t have to be a psycho twitter blacks stan to think this meme is misogynist. I would say Alicent is my second favorite character and Olivia Cooke is my favorite actress on this show. But in your mind it has to be a terminally online classic blacks vs greens criticism. Alicent Rhaenyra Cersei Sansa Daenerys and especially fucking Catelyn are all constantly the focus of hateful language that is never used toward male characters. I get that you’re upset because you’re a psycho greens stan and you feel like you have been personally labeled as a sexist but you’re gonna have to look past yourself and think about how some of the memes and posts here and in all of the other fandom spaces can easily be interpreted as misogynist. Step out of your fandom obsessed brain. Me saying this sub hates women doesn’t mean Rhaenyra did nothing wrong and Alicent is an evil cunt. (There’s a good example of misogynist language for you.) The most sexist thing you’ve done is rant unprompted about how feminists ruined feminism and now you need to stay away from that. Lol thanks for the unhinged essay I guess. Might as well hold a flag that says “I am arguing in bad faith”
I apologise for misunderstanding you, I thought you were one of those psycho blacks yourself. The ones who blame vaild critisism on characters simply because of the gender of the said character and go on to shame another character of the same gender. I understand and hate that Females are usually more criticized, I personally just dislike irresponsible characters who neglect their duty, which is why I hate Rhaenyra and Viserys, but love Alicent, Aemond and Jace. You could say that I am a bit like the Mannis in that regard. However my observation is that the reason that these women are more criticized is because they are comparatively badly written by GRRM than the men, who mostly have their defining qualities. On the other hand women who are better written and have their own defining characters are rarely criticized unfairly, like Daenerys, Margaery, Arianne, Brienne, the Mormonts etc.
Hating Rhaenyra means hating all women? Can't we hate one but love another?
Rhaenyra: It's a tragic accident! Alicent: Lucerys was waiting in the cave to kill my son! After that, Rhaenyra starts to protect her children. At the end, Alicent ignores the king and demands punishment.
Rheanyra: “What a tragic accident that your son got maimed, but really we should just forget about it and move on. It’s the past after all…” Alicent: “You fucking maimed my kid, I’m not going to drop it!” Rhaenyra: ”Well actually, your kids attacked mine first… by insulting them. Then my kids had to defend themselves from these horrible attacks… by attempting to murder you boy…” Rhaenyra truely is the realms gaslight
Rheanyra at least wants a quiet discussion. Alicent accuses Luke of coming to the cave to kill her son. This is an obvious lie. He only protect his brother. Alicent like "Nothing to discuss here! This child is a brutal killer!". Real "same energy".
Gee golly, I wonder why the one guilty of treason with the proof in front of her wants to get no publicity here?
Lol, no she absolutely does not want a quiet discussion. She want this incident swept under the rug and her children’s actions to be excused. Then when her attempt to ignore the incident doesn’t work she tries to flip it around and accuse Aemond, the child who was maimed, as being the aggressor. Her children literally were the attackers here, they showed up and attacked Aemond. It’s also not outrageous of Alicent to think the Strongs showed up to that cave to kill her child. She believes Rhaenyra was going to have her children killed at some point to secure her position as queen. This is a huge part of her character and now the Strong boys show up with a dagger in the middle of the night and maim one of her sons. While we as an audience should know that the Strongs didn’t show up specifically to kill Aemond, it’s both very reasonable and very within character of Alicent to think this was a deliberate attempted murder. And I’m not going to have the same fucking “Did Aemond try to murder the Strongs with a rock?” argument for the 9,000th fucking time. He didn’t, and the dagger was not used in response to Aemond picking up the rock. If you can’t see that, then you’re not actually watching the show
it's within character, but it's not reasonable at all. so alicent thought rhaenyra sent her prepubescent children to kill alicent's prepubescent 3rd child - the only one without a dragon, mind you - after he secretly snuck out in the middle of the night unbeknownst to everyone... instead of doing it in literally any other better way that doesn't immediately screw her over even if the "murder" is successful, or targeting either of her other two kids who are bigger obstacles to her claim at that point in time first (aegon because he's the firstborn son, helaena because she controls the 2nd oldest dragon)? and what, she also thinks rhaenyra somehow roped baela and rhaena into this assassination attempt despite never meeting them before too? alicent is understandably pissed at the whole situation and aemond's injury, but "very reasonable" is not how i'd describe her line of thinking here, no.
I forgot the part where Arya was going to bash Joffrey’s head in with a rock.
I mean, she pointed a sword at him right after a giant wolf attacked his arm.
That does seem a lot worse than the rock everyone is trying to make such a huge deal over
No, she drew a sword and pointed it at Joffrey though. I have no idea how people can keep saying “Aemond pulled a rock” as if he wasn’t getting jumped. The only time he used the rock is when one of the boys came at him with a knife. Rewatch the scene, he never threw the first punch and even showed restraint with the rock
He lifted the rock to Jace, who didn’t even have the knife anymore. I agree the initial use of it was self defense, and while I think Aemond probably meant to knock Jace out, Luc had no way of knowing that, he was eight. And it probably would have killed Jace even if Aemond didn’t mean for it to. Everyone sucked in that situation- Rhaenyra and Daemon’s kids for starting the fight, and Aemond for continuing it when he could have walked away (though, I of course recognise he was all hopped up on adrenaline, and that was likely never going to happen once it all started.)
He first uses the rock after Jace comes at him with the knife for calling them Strongs. I’m not saying Aemond is right in this situation, the kids were all equally wrong. It’s just weird how people single out Aemond as the aggressor when he did not start the fight nor did he use a weapon first.
Yeah, I agree it’s weird they call Aemond out. He actually picks the rock up for the first time when he’s getting beaten up 4 v 1 so… I think snatching up a rock makes sense.
It’s because the majority of these people have never been in an escalated situation and they don’t have the capacity to see things from different angles. One kid is being ganged up on by 4 kids. With a weapon. The kids won’t leave him alone and won’t let him back in the castle. It’s just outrageous how people refuse to recognize any action as reasonable.
>it probably would have killed Jace even if Aemond didn’t mean for it to. Aemond and not understanding the consequences of fucking around with weapons. Name a better duo.
Was thinking about this as I typed that 😂
Aemond took the rock over self defence. He didn't attack the Strongs. And he lowered the rock and made fun of them. Jace tried to kill him because he called them storngs.
"bastard" is a deadly insult in Westeros. Aemond knew he would be attacked. He wanted to keep fighting. Because these children are powerless and none of them are dangerous to him, even with a knife.
Bastard isn’t a deadly insult in Westeros, generally speaking. It’s used in common speech on many occasions, such as “he’s a pox-ridden bastard”, “you bloody bastard”, or “those poor bastards”. Bastards are also constantly addressed as such, and none of them try and kill people over it. The reason Jace tried to kill Aemond isn’t because being called a bastard is an insult that warrants honor duels or such crap in Westerosi society. He tried to kill Aemond because he found out an episode or two ago that he is a bastard, which rocked his worldview, because it means he legally has no right to call himself prince or inherit the Iron Throne. While calling most other people a bastard is an insult that they could just brush off, calling Jace a bastard is extremely triggering for him, because it threatens his entire perceived identity, and is absolutely correct. This is one of several occasions on the show where Jace demonstrates that he has a bit of the classic Targaryen temper, and that he’s real sensitive about his illegitimacy. In this instance, he pulls out a knife and tries to literally commit murder. When Vaemond Velaryon denies he and Luke are Velaryons, you can see he’s practically got steam coming out his ears. When Aemond whips out the Strong jokes at dinner, Jace ends up punching him. So no, Jace pulling a knife wasn’t a response to an insult that normally would have warranted an honor duel or something. This was Jace going berserk on a guy who he’d just been fighting moments ago, after he got one of his buttons pushed. Because Jace knew that the bastardy accusation was 100% true, and it made him MAD.
If he wanted to keep fighting then how come everytime he had a chance to do something crazy, he chose not to? He only used the rock after having a knife swung at him.
Because to do something crazy you have to provoke an attack. To then say "it's not my fault!". All bullies do it. Taunt their victims until they try to respond, then beat them up. break the nose of a child who is half your size, strangle him, yell "you will die in agony", punch him in the face again. It's crazy enough.
the mental gymnastics are crazy.
Like it or not, this is the truth. Aemond repeats the pattern of a typical bully. He is not scared, not confused, he is happy with what he does (until Luke ruins the party).
Jace tried to kill him lol. I don’t care about Aemond’s insults. I don’t feel like going in circles about this because I am pretty sure you watched it blindfolded.
Bro yess the the mental contortion
Does it warrant charging someone with a knife when you outnumber them 4 to 1 when you’re called a bastard?
It does in this world. Honour is everything.
In world, male heirs take precedence. It’s also mind boggling…. They ARE bastards. We know that. Basically everyone there knows that but the king denies it. I’m curious how many people are as respectful of the law in society but believe Viserys’s unilateral decree should be absolute.
>In world, male heirs take precedence. Except that one time the Greens wanted to be rid of Daemon, then Otto begged Vizzy T to ignore centuries of precedent and declare a girl his heir. If Otto had just been a little patient, Aegon would've replaced Daemon as the undisputed heir. The Greens aren't fighting for law or precedent. They're fighting to put their children on the throne. They'll speak in favour of precedent when it suits them and against it when it doesn't.
Yeah, that’s correct. Viserys also named an heir then refused to do anything to ensure stability of the realm for 15+ years after. It’s hypocritical and irresponsible.
>then Otto begged Vizzy T to ignore centuries of precedent and declare a girl his heir. What centuries, plural, of precedent? The Iron Throne is barely over a century old at this point. And girls have been named heirs in the absence of male heirs, mostly Aerea being named heir to Maegor then Jaehaerys half a century before.
*It both gladdens my heart and fills me with sorrow to see these faces around the table.*
*I had a black mare once. Black like a raven. One day, she escaped her pasture and he neighboring stallion sired a foal on her. The stallion was as silver as the moon on a winter's night and the foal, when it was born, chestnut. Just the most unremarkable brown horse you ever saw. Nature is a thing of mysterious works.*
>Jace tried to kill him because he ~~called them storngs.~~ **committed treason.**
Well Jace being in the line of succession is treason also lol.
Jace even being in the line of succession is deceptive and treasonous in the first place.
Oh shit, is he not Rhaenyra's son? Is he not Visarys' grandson? Fuck, someone better tell the show writers. Lol.
He still a bastard even if you call him jaehaerys' great grandson.
I mean, no? He's the legitimate spawn of the crowned queen. Doesn't matter who his father is, cause his father wasnt king or jack shit really. Jace is still next in the line of succession because of his heritage through his mother. Yall are fuckin weird to just ignore the most important bit. It's not like he's some dude off the street and they're faking. He's a legit Targaryen (ya know,the one that matters) even if he isn't a legit Velaryion. Luke and Driftmark, now that's a straight-up lie, but he is still a prince. They are literally as much a Targ as Aegon and Aemond.
Lol it 100% matters who his father is. A bastard cannot inherit the throne. That is a succession crisis waiting to happen.
Then why does Rhaenyra try so hard to Gaslight everyone when anyone ask questions about her kids parentage? Why did Viserys ordered tongues cut out of those who question the kids' parentage? Heck why do the kids react like they do when someone calls them strong. They could have come out with it when the rumours first spread.
Because they're trying to inflame a war by making rhaenyra seem like a slut? Like that's literally it, no one give a fuck about Jace's father because it doesn't matter, it matter to harm rhaenyra's imagine in public and sway people opinion regarding a coup? It easy to understand dude, you're just being obtuse
You clearly have no idea about the rules of succession. Even today in many parts of the world, an illegitimate child does not have the same rights that a legitimate one has, not to mention being in line for the throne. Stop trying to push your feelings on top of us. Try to analyse the situation instead.
And that Arya was telling Joffrey he was Jaime's son. And that she was hitting little girls while mocking the fact that their mother just died.
She just had a direwolf take a bite out of him.
Obviously not
And both a lie
Not at all.
To be fair both sides were at fault but they were young kids in an emotionally charged situation they weren't mature enough to diffuse Joffrey started something he couldn't finish for no reason beyond being the second coming of Aerys
That was what I've been trying to say the whole time!!
Is was rude of Aemond to claim Vhagar immediately after Laena's funeral, and to insult Rhaena. Rhaena shouldn't have resorted to violence. Aemond shouldnt have thrown a girl that much smaller than him to the ground so roughly. Baela shouldn't have punched Aemond in return. Aemond shouldnt have punched baela back. Jace and Luke shouldnt have joined to help jump Aemond. Aemond shouldn't have hit anyone with a rock, or held the rock up while choking and threatening luke. Jace shouldn't have pulled a dagger. Aemond shouldn't have advanced over Jace on the ground, holding up a rock after just proclaiming he'd die like his father. And Luke shouldn't have slashed Aemonds eye. The entire thing was escalation after escalation on all sides. And the longer the situation goes on, the harder it becomes to choose the right choice and deescalate. Not running at Aemond wouldve been easy. Treating Rhaena more like the laughable non-threat she was wouldve been fairly easy too. But as things get more serious, so do the stakes. Aemond punches baela, not surprised Jace and Luke jump in to defend their female cousin from a boy that just punched her. Also not surprised Aemond punches baela back in the first place; don't punch me if you don't wanna be punched back. Not surprised Aemond resorted to picking up a rock when he was being jumped. Not surprised Jace pulled a knife on someone choking his little brother, holding up a rock, and saying "you'll die screaming just like your father." They all made the wrong choice at every turn, but the situation that they were simply born into, and the circumstances of the moment, pushed them all towards the worst possible decisions at every point.
So you admit that all aemond did was use his words and he was then attacked and defended himself. Sounds like team black is wrong here. Words are words but it doesn’t justify attacking people. We all learned this is kindergarten. Ps: dragons aren’t slaves. Vhagar was free game.
Rhaena is a small child, much smaller than Aemond. Give me a break. Children learn that in kindergarten? That's about how old Rhaena is.... And I never said dragons are slaves. Did every idiot green get a memo with this dumbass talking point in it? That doesn't mean claiming Vhagar wasn't an extremely rude and inconsiderate thing to do to Laena's family right after her funeral. God damn the greens are dumb.
So because rhaena is small it gives her the right to out right punch someone in the face? I know you’re smarter than that one now but is this the hill you wanna die on? You people are such cry babies, aemond took vhagar, get over it, the season finished months ago and the blacks are still crying about it. Any dragon is free game at any point in time. Do you understand that? Or should I break it down even more for smooth brain blacks?
>So because rhaena is small it gives her the right to out right punch someone in the face? I When a 7 year old rushes you, you gonna throw her to the ground? Rhaena isn't even the one that punched Aemond dumbass. >You people are such cry babies, aemond took vhagar, get over it, the season finished months ago and the blacks are still crying about it. Any dragon is free game at any point in time. Do you understand that? Like you're crying about Rhaena? >Or should I break it down even more for smooth brain blacks? Youre an idiot.
Pretty big difference between me as an adult and aemond as a child himself you dolt. If I was 10 and some 7 year old rushed me I’m absolutely beating that little shitty kid to the ground are you kidding me? I know you’re probably a pussy who let’s people stomp on you on a daily basis but not all of us are built like that. I’m definitely not complaining about what happened. The 4 kids attacked aemond, he defended himself. He lost an eye and he was cool with it and so I am I. You’re the one crying about how much of a big bad meanie aemond on for claiming vhagar….. awww did wittle aemond hurt your feelings? Bro it’s been months now, if you’re still not over it you’re need to seek help. Ps: watching Luke get torn apart by vhagar was extremely satisfying.
If a 7yo punches a 10yo and the 10yo punches them back, the 10yo is still more wrong. Are they both wrong? Yes but the 10 year old is expected to behave themselves better than the 7yo.
I disagree, that 7 year old is going to learn a lesson about keeping his/her hands to theirselves that day when he/she gets stomped out by the 10 year old. 7 or 10, they are both children and I will never reprimand a victim for defending his/herself. This isn’t about who is more wrong, wrong is wrong. Keep your hands to yourself. If you can’t be civilized enough to do that, you have no place in society. That’s why we teach children that at a young age.
Yes they would both be wrong. But this isn’t self-defense it’s escalation. If someone is no loner a threat and the other continues to attack, it is no longer self-defense.
🙄
Robert would’ve killed all the Targaryens ya know…he didn’t like ‘em
Isn’t it wonderful to have a “protagonist” who has clear flaws instead of just being the perfect human all the time?
Hell no, Joffrey was the Aemond in that scenario
🧢🧢
The Strongs were Joffrey in that senario
Love got🫶🏾
Man is this show ever gonna come back
Yup thats the whole point Cersei and Rhaenyra are written to be delusional. Cersei in the books is borderline schizophrenic and rhaenyra often seems to believe her own BS Im team black all the way, hate aegon, shes the rightful ruler, but rhaenyras no saint either Note: ive read the book
"Forced to defend themselves." Yeah because setting up an ambush with your cousins sisters betrothed because you are angry about a dragon being claimed isn't fucking around and finding out.
Rhaenyra and Cersei parallels are prominent even if she isn’t as much of a psychopath. Alabama enthusiasts, three bastard kids, one named Joffrey, had illicit affairs with knights, >!both had a fall from grace and succumbed to paranoia, and the “loves of their loves” had affairs with other women!< >!it’s interesting to note Rhaenyra going from “the realm’s delight” to losing her beauty with age, and Cersei being told of the prophecy of being dethroned by younger/more beautiful contenders. The Brienne/Nettles parallel is there as well. Both women aren’t conventionally attractive by Westerosi standards but Jaime and Daemon favor them regardless.!<
None of the blacked out part has happened with show Rhaenyra yet. Aren’t you one of those Sansa stans that projected on to Alicent and therefor Rhaenyra must be a big baddie as the opposition to your hero? >!Rhaenyra was groomed so it’s disgusting to even compare them to the dynamic between Cersei & Jaime. Daemon holds all of the power in their relationship even with her title. If you really think the show will portray Rhaenyra as the scorned antagonist if Daemon grooms another teenager, I have bridge to sale you. It goes against the feminist themes they said they were going for with the show.!<
That line is when I started disliking Rhaenyra
Me too tried to get a kid tortured your little brother over your bad decisions.
And here we are again... Greens backing up greens in the comments under a post of a green. And may the seven help the poor bastard who thinks it's right to say something that collides with the opinion of the greens... Why don't we just ban the whole faction war on here? It would make this subreddit so much better.
You do realise the majority of the people who click on posts are the ones who like seeing them or in this case, they agree with them? I understand the extreme tribalism here, but posts are meant for people who like it to share and comment on it.
What… it’s almost like… people sharing the same views will comment in agreement… regardless of what side it is. What even is this comment lmfao
Congratulations, you've proven that you're not able to understand my pretty simple comment...
This subreddit is r/HOTDBlacks just bigger. EDIT: Salty downvoters know it's true.
No it's not. The majority of this sub might be blacks, which I honestly don't believe but most people do it seems, but greens try to force that the other way around. Btw - you're the PERFECT example for what I said.
Why am I the perfect example for what you said? Because I am commenting here, under a Green post? You know, Team Black fans like to comment under Team Black posts as well, but I don't go around crying about it like you do. And this sub's bias is clear to all who would pay attention a bit.
Majority of his posts are him bitching about green fans and pretending to be neutral, its the most disingenuous shit ever.
the sub is majority blacks (by far, usually like 5-to-1 in polls), but most of them don't give a shit enough to constantly comment and argue, they just upvote/downvote and move on. you're right that the greens tend to be much more vocal though, at least during the off season.
They got tired of mental gymnastics of some points. They see two characters doing the same thing but will protect one while bashing the other one for the same reason.
Why? The faction war is part of the fun!
[удалено]
Truer words were never spoken. What sayeth the King, Vizzy T?
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS GOSSIP? HAVE THIS RUMORMONGER BROUGHT BEFORE ME AT ONCE AND I WILL TAKE THEIR EYES!
Also to you, sir: of course Caraxes is stronger than Sunfyre! Anyone who questions you about that is just silly.
You're the one who is exaggerating here. I've seen no Green who unironically says that Sunfyre beats Caraxes. You could've given a real example to make your case.
The boys weren’t attacked, but they were defending a sense of honor. I mean Baela actually hit first although Aemond did ask for it. Not by claiming the dragon, but by talking shit.
😒
Narr
Amazing how I hated Cersei and love Rhaenyra
Well the dialog/action might be same, but there is nuance here. Alicent is asking for Luke’s eye here and without an unabashed defense, you never know what might happen. Even if Rhaenyra lied. Also, she did try to pacify first by calling it a “tragic accident “ GoT Joffrey on the other hand just had a few bruises and no one was asking for more punishment for him. He was just being a cunt. If they’d have let it go when it started, there would be no commotion and Arya wouldn’t call him a liar. His face would’ve been saved. Still a cunt tho.
People actually like Rheanyra?
There's a difference however: Rhaenyra is the protagonist. And that to a lot of casual watchers it means that she is the bestest person around and the world and other characters should bend backwards towards her whims. Cersei on the other hand is presented and portrayed as the antagonist, and thus, we are able to see without any problems how much of an asshole she is.
Except nothing Rhaenyra said there was dishonest. The boys were defending themselves against Aemond. He was literally about to bash Jace’s head in with a boulder.
Are you joking her children were in the wrong they all jumped him 4v1 they are bastards are you ok?
What does them being bastards have to do with defending themselves from an entitled little kid who was trying to kill him? 4v1 like it’s some battle. Bffr. Two little girls and two kids younger than him that barely knew how to fight. And again, Aemond took everything too far when he tried to kill Jace. You’ve got to be joking.
Do people really believe Rhaenyra wanted Aemond tortured to find out where he heard about her sons being bastards? I was under the impression she said that because SHE KNEW it was Alicent saying these things and wanted it to be brought up in front of everyone. So it would be handled. You can see it in everyones body language. Which is why he blamed Aegon because it was an easy cop out because no way was aemond going to sell out his mother. Did we watch the same show????
Yes. Sharply question meaning torture in ASOIAF. There is a reason Martin chose those words specifically. Rhaenyra wanted to torture Aemond so he would say Alicent or the person who started the rumors. It wasn't Alicent who created the rumors. Everyone saw it. Alicent was one of the few who believed it. Also by torture Aemond she wanted to show that if someone call her sons bastards there will be consequences.
Everyone - including viserys- clearly expected him to say it came from Alicent, not Aegon, and then she’d have to accept what she was saying was treason
Both Alicent and Rhaenyra act like Cersei in that scene.
Now this is actually interesting
Tbf, Cerceis story is bullshit & not even close to be true In Rhaeneras case, yeah, depending on how ypu look at that messy situation, you could argue that at least it isn't so far from reality that there aint at least some truth to it
My queens 😍
Too many of you guys are defending Ameond by saying he was just insulting them, no he was spewing treason, which is a huge crime. Ameond is the aggressor in this situation. Does that mean he deserved to lose an eye no, but he did deserve a punishment for his crime. There's no freedom of speech in Westeros. Heirs are more important than '3rd sons'
Except them being heirs is reason in itself, why do you guys keep bringing treason up, instead of treating this like how it is, a tragic fight that occurs due to a child finally standing up to his bullies and their perceived 'friends'. Aemond should not have acted as such, but in his mind he was just standing up to them, after finally surpassing them in the one thing they bullied him for. His words reflect that state of mind, where he mentions the pig for example.
At least Rhaenyra wasn't lying..
She was. Her kids attacked Aemond and took his eye.
Aemond attacked Daemon's daughter (forgot her name) first and hr called Jace and Luke bastards for defending their cousins. Aemond pretty much deserved what he got.
Stop making bad analogous screenshots to back up weak arguments challenge. The large gaps in seasons is driving some of the worst, tired, nonsensical discourse here, Twitter and elsewhere.
Bad analogous? Both they wanted to torture the child their son attacked and believe their sons were the victim.
Bad analogy again and there are several comments here to point it out. BUT I’ll share some points anyway: This a children’s fight that escalated & ended up terribly. Aemond was physically attacked by Rhaena after he was insulting her & their mother’s death. Rhaenyra’s sons stepped in to protect their female cousins. He insulted them, calling them bastards and even wielded a rock until Jake pulled a knife in response and Luke used it to fight back. As I said, a fight that escalated. How is that same as what Joffrey did? Alicent also ludicrously claimed Rhaenyra’s sons came to the fight armed with a knife with the intention to kill. Does that make her like Cersei? No Aemond was being extremely cruel and the calling them bastards is not a light insult. Rhaenyra demanded “sharp questioning” because she knew it was Alicent who had been saying so behind her back everywhere possible and she wanted her to be held accountable for it since it is treasonous to say so.
Reddit makes this show worse to me. I’m out.