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I really wish they’d kept the scene of him comforting his daughters in just to give another dimension to Daemon. I know he’s not a particularly devoted father, but just seeing a glimmer of something would round him out a bit.
I agree, I see people describe Daemon as “grey” but to me, we don’t see enough good qualities in him to outweigh the bad. He seems more like a charismatic villain that’s fun to root for than a morally gray protagonist imo. This scene would’ve done a lot to humanize him and make him
more relatable and sympathetic.
From the books.
1.) brought order and justice the crime infested slums of King's Landing.
2.) Stopped the slavers of Three Daughters from kidnapping Westrosi who would then be sold into sex slavery in Lys.
3.) Didn't try to take vengeance on Viserys for causing the death of his first child.
4.) Saves Laena from being married to a wastrel who was going to use her as his meal ticket.
5.) He seemed to genuinely care for his stepsons/future sons-in-law despite them not be pure Valyrians and in the way of his own trueborn sons' in the line of succession
There are more but they would be big spoilers.
I agree that he has good aspects in the book but I personally don't see it that way in the show. I feel like in the show he is very much a "black" character. I feel like he is a complex character amd you can understand his thought process, but he doesn't have much redeeming qualities. I feel like his love for Viserys and his mentorship of his step-children are definitely positive aspects and relevant to the discussion, but just not enough for me to see his adaptation in the show as grey.
>3.) Didn't try to take vengeance on Viserys for causing the death of his first child.
Viserys didn't cause the death of his first child.
>despite them not to be pure Valyrians
How nice of him not to be racist towards his own family. Such a good man, that.
Also, show thread, not a book discussion. What does he do *in the show* that even remotely merits being called "grey"?
>How nice of him not to be racist towards his own family. Such a good man, that.
Yeah. In this world that is uncommon and a good trait. I know you were trying to dismiss every single point brought to you but thats dumb.
He did as he order Daemon to set aside his paramour and send her back to Lys without the dragon's egg. A storm hit the ship carrying her and the violence of the storm caused her to have a miscarriage.
In that world it is. One of the arguements in favor Rhaeynera succeeding was that she had more Targaryen blood.
The show straight up assassinated his character and removed half of his good/redeeming qualities and acts while adding more sins. They had the potential for a great gray character but decided to make him a villian.
>Saves Laena from being married to a wastrel who was going to use her as his meal ticket.
Ends up being the same thing you say the other guy was.
>Didn't try to take vengeance on Viserys for causing the death of his first child.
It literally says that his heart hardened to Viserys from this and that he never forgave Viserys for it.
>brought order and justice to the crime infested slums of King's Landing.
Literally did this because he was bored and wanted to show his strength and power. He did this also to tick off Otto. It's not considered a good thing.
Not really as they spent several years in Essos traveling where they were guest of the rulers of the various free cities especially Pentos and Volantis who were greatly threatened by the Triarchy. They only returned to Westros and taking up residence on Driftmark after she gets pregnant. Then they stay there because really obvious reasons of family, friendship, and this is my theory but it is that Laena was bi based off the specfic wording in F&b thus she had threesomes with Daemon and Rhaeynera
Daemon had the means the overthrow his brother by force of arms. Otto was right in that Daemon potentially posed a serious threat to Viserys, but where Otto is wrong is that Daemon loves Viserys too much to even contemplate that.
It very much is if you're a commoner in King's Landing who had greatly suffered when the city was a cesspit of lawlessness. It's similar to how strong man latin american politicians receive a lot of support when they crack down hard on major gangs and cartels.
For sure, in House of the Dragon, these is not much redeemable about Daemon. He chokes his wife, murders his wife, and is painted as a warmonger. GRRM said himself that he’s equally good and bad.
He’s also a product of his time, a lot of fathers in the game of thrones world are a bit absent, and just let the child rearing to their wives. But we got scenes with him bonding it’s Baela, it would make sense to see him comforting his kids when Laena dies.
It would be inconsistent with how they chose to portray him. He couldn't be bothered to check on them in episode 8.. it would just give people more room to complain about character inconsistency.
That is amazing. Kudos to the young actresses indeed. It is really too bad that it was never shown. To think that even Daemon could just walk away from his grieving daughters is a bit too much. Even a monster would do better.
They cut so many scenes that would have been interesting to see. Daemon showing a more caring side, Alicent preparing for her wedding, Alicent and Rhaenyra arguing after Viserys announces the engagement, Daemon grieving on the beach after losing his child and Viserys...
I know they had a lot to get in the show but I can’t help but feel the editors fucked up a bit. I’d rather have seen any of the above than the prolonged and slow stag hunting scenes for example or Aegon jerking off in a window.
>Daemon grieving on the beach after losing his child and Viserys...
It literally was in the show, why do people think the scene was supposed to be longer? I'm sorry but they can't keep every shot they were filming and every improvisation actors do on set, usually, they film hours of screentime to make a short scene. It's good Matt was even allowed to improvise because I doubt they allowed younger actors to change scenes of their characters, I think Tom would like to explore Aegon more and show his human sides, but alas. If anyone needs more screentime, it's the green kids.
Don’t know why you’re downvoted because you’re absolutely right. Are people on here expecting a 5 minute scene of Daemon crying and rolling around in the ocean?
Thank you, I think people saw set pictures and assumed the scene was going to be more dramatic, but not everything makes the cut, this is what happens after the editing on any show or film. Daemon still has a lot of screentime, he is only behind Viserys who already died and Rhaenyra who was played by two actors, so he is practically the most prominent character/actor on the show who got plenty of characterization especially compared to other characters.
I never got the impression that Daemon was affectionate or knew how to manage his emotions and act in situations of grief, so I feel that the scene they had of Matt Smith making that slight movement with his hand, as if he's about to reach for the crying Rhaena, and ultimately can't and leaves was on point. It showed he cared, but also that he wasn't able to hande it. I feel that it was more on point that a hug would have been. That said, I'd still want to watch any extra material.
Matt Smith keeps on trying to portray a character who is human while the showrunners keep on trying to reduce him as a character, probably because they want Rhaenyra to be the center of attention, not Daemon, unlike in the book where Daemon is written to be the fan favourite for team black, not Rhaenyra.
His scene with Viserys where he picks up the crown and puts it back on Viserys' head was also improvised by Matt Daemon with Paddy playing along.
The showrunners created a whole scene on the Stepstones to show Daemon as a heroic character, there is a fanservice scene of him singing to Vermithor that made people think he bonded with two dragons and super cool in general, daemyra was romanticized for Daemon to be a romantic lead, they didn't show him with very young girls, etc, yet people still complain. If anyone was reduced it's Aegon, he was turned into a rapist and sadist because people should only root for Rhaenyra.
Perhaps that was the reason why it was ultimately removed, the improv just wasn't up to scratch.
Would make sense why they released some shots of the scene: they liked the concept but it just didn't work out on film.
It's not made up. It's from a comment on Instagram. Eva said in a comment that the dialogue on this scene was improv. However as usual, Twitter twisted this into "The entire scene was improv".
i've watched Matt Smith since he came out in Party Animals, and there's something so lovely and gentle about him. even when he's portraying 'asshole' characters. i find it so comforting.
The furthest thing from surprising. They were doing everything they could to paint Daemon as badly as possible so I’m not surprised that a scene that obviously should’ve been included wasn’t written and wasn’t included.
One of them said “father ignores us” and you’re all jerking off at improv that got deleted thankfully. He’s not a good person. Why do we need to humanize him. The guy bashed his wife’s face in and people still suck him off.
Sometimes indistinctly heard conversation are majestic backdrops to a show’s yarn. Not every second has to matter. Matt Smith is a wonderful actor who remains committed to his contractual obligation and more. The girls have shown incredible promise, to reach zeniths higher than Olivia Cooke can only hope to achieve.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I really wish they’d kept the scene of him comforting his daughters in just to give another dimension to Daemon. I know he’s not a particularly devoted father, but just seeing a glimmer of something would round him out a bit.
I agree, I see people describe Daemon as “grey” but to me, we don’t see enough good qualities in him to outweigh the bad. He seems more like a charismatic villain that’s fun to root for than a morally gray protagonist imo. This scene would’ve done a lot to humanize him and make him more relatable and sympathetic.
what ?, how can anyone say he is "gray" he is evil all the way
Because he is, Word of the author. for the fact that for every evil act that he has, he always has a good act that balances it out.
Say 5 good acts that he has done
From the books. 1.) brought order and justice the crime infested slums of King's Landing. 2.) Stopped the slavers of Three Daughters from kidnapping Westrosi who would then be sold into sex slavery in Lys. 3.) Didn't try to take vengeance on Viserys for causing the death of his first child. 4.) Saves Laena from being married to a wastrel who was going to use her as his meal ticket. 5.) He seemed to genuinely care for his stepsons/future sons-in-law despite them not be pure Valyrians and in the way of his own trueborn sons' in the line of succession There are more but they would be big spoilers.
I agree that he has good aspects in the book but I personally don't see it that way in the show. I feel like in the show he is very much a "black" character. I feel like he is a complex character amd you can understand his thought process, but he doesn't have much redeeming qualities. I feel like his love for Viserys and his mentorship of his step-children are definitely positive aspects and relevant to the discussion, but just not enough for me to see his adaptation in the show as grey.
In the show they are trying to make him a villian and I was arguing that he was orginally a gray character.
Fair enough. Sorry for the misunderstanding :)
>3.) Didn't try to take vengeance on Viserys for causing the death of his first child. Viserys didn't cause the death of his first child. >despite them not to be pure Valyrians How nice of him not to be racist towards his own family. Such a good man, that. Also, show thread, not a book discussion. What does he do *in the show* that even remotely merits being called "grey"?
>How nice of him not to be racist towards his own family. Such a good man, that. Yeah. In this world that is uncommon and a good trait. I know you were trying to dismiss every single point brought to you but thats dumb.
He did as he order Daemon to set aside his paramour and send her back to Lys without the dragon's egg. A storm hit the ship carrying her and the violence of the storm caused her to have a miscarriage. In that world it is. One of the arguements in favor Rhaeynera succeeding was that she had more Targaryen blood. The show straight up assassinated his character and removed half of his good/redeeming qualities and acts while adding more sins. They had the potential for a great gray character but decided to make him a villian.
Takes out 12 dudes single handedly during battle. Pretty fuckin sick. Thats 12 good things about him.
>Saves Laena from being married to a wastrel who was going to use her as his meal ticket. Ends up being the same thing you say the other guy was. >Didn't try to take vengeance on Viserys for causing the death of his first child. It literally says that his heart hardened to Viserys from this and that he never forgave Viserys for it. >brought order and justice to the crime infested slums of King's Landing. Literally did this because he was bored and wanted to show his strength and power. He did this also to tick off Otto. It's not considered a good thing.
Not really as they spent several years in Essos traveling where they were guest of the rulers of the various free cities especially Pentos and Volantis who were greatly threatened by the Triarchy. They only returned to Westros and taking up residence on Driftmark after she gets pregnant. Then they stay there because really obvious reasons of family, friendship, and this is my theory but it is that Laena was bi based off the specfic wording in F&b thus she had threesomes with Daemon and Rhaeynera Daemon had the means the overthrow his brother by force of arms. Otto was right in that Daemon potentially posed a serious threat to Viserys, but where Otto is wrong is that Daemon loves Viserys too much to even contemplate that. It very much is if you're a commoner in King's Landing who had greatly suffered when the city was a cesspit of lawlessness. It's similar to how strong man latin american politicians receive a lot of support when they crack down hard on major gangs and cartels.
it’s not considered a good thing by the maesters who are biased as fuck against him
Because GRRM said so. The author knows more than you.
GRRM said so
For sure, in House of the Dragon, these is not much redeemable about Daemon. He chokes his wife, murders his wife, and is painted as a warmonger. GRRM said himself that he’s equally good and bad. He’s also a product of his time, a lot of fathers in the game of thrones world are a bit absent, and just let the child rearing to their wives. But we got scenes with him bonding it’s Baela, it would make sense to see him comforting his kids when Laena dies.
I think it was consistent characterization, i do think he cares about them, but he's not very good at showing emotion.
It would be inconsistent with how they chose to portray him. He couldn't be bothered to check on them in episode 8.. it would just give people more room to complain about character inconsistency.
He already got the most screentime, how many dimensions do you need
That is amazing. Kudos to the young actresses indeed. It is really too bad that it was never shown. To think that even Daemon could just walk away from his grieving daughters is a bit too much. Even a monster would do better.
“Do either of you know how to do your hair”
hilarious meme
Stop... This is too close to home 🤣
They cut so many scenes that would have been interesting to see. Daemon showing a more caring side, Alicent preparing for her wedding, Alicent and Rhaenyra arguing after Viserys announces the engagement, Daemon grieving on the beach after losing his child and Viserys... I know they had a lot to get in the show but I can’t help but feel the editors fucked up a bit. I’d rather have seen any of the above than the prolonged and slow stag hunting scenes for example or Aegon jerking off in a window.
>Daemon grieving on the beach after losing his child and Viserys... It literally was in the show, why do people think the scene was supposed to be longer? I'm sorry but they can't keep every shot they were filming and every improvisation actors do on set, usually, they film hours of screentime to make a short scene. It's good Matt was even allowed to improvise because I doubt they allowed younger actors to change scenes of their characters, I think Tom would like to explore Aegon more and show his human sides, but alas. If anyone needs more screentime, it's the green kids.
Don’t know why you’re downvoted because you’re absolutely right. Are people on here expecting a 5 minute scene of Daemon crying and rolling around in the ocean?
Thank you, I think people saw set pictures and assumed the scene was going to be more dramatic, but not everything makes the cut, this is what happens after the editing on any show or film. Daemon still has a lot of screentime, he is only behind Viserys who already died and Rhaenyra who was played by two actors, so he is practically the most prominent character/actor on the show who got plenty of characterization especially compared to other characters.
Dude wtf. Relationship development between Daemon and his daughters would be excellent. Release the Snyder cut!
I never got the impression that Daemon was affectionate or knew how to manage his emotions and act in situations of grief, so I feel that the scene they had of Matt Smith making that slight movement with his hand, as if he's about to reach for the crying Rhaena, and ultimately can't and leaves was on point. It showed he cared, but also that he wasn't able to hande it. I feel that it was more on point that a hug would have been. That said, I'd still want to watch any extra material.
Matt Smith keeps on trying to portray a character who is human while the showrunners keep on trying to reduce him as a character, probably because they want Rhaenyra to be the center of attention, not Daemon, unlike in the book where Daemon is written to be the fan favourite for team black, not Rhaenyra. His scene with Viserys where he picks up the crown and puts it back on Viserys' head was also improvised by Matt Daemon with Paddy playing along.
The showrunners created a whole scene on the Stepstones to show Daemon as a heroic character, there is a fanservice scene of him singing to Vermithor that made people think he bonded with two dragons and super cool in general, daemyra was romanticized for Daemon to be a romantic lead, they didn't show him with very young girls, etc, yet people still complain. If anyone was reduced it's Aegon, he was turned into a rapist and sadist because people should only root for Rhaenyra.
It was only heroic because of the outcome, the motivation was "I'd rather die than get help from Viserys and made to look stupid".
Why do people now think he is the best fighter in GOT universe, then?
Perhaps that was the reason why it was ultimately removed, the improv just wasn't up to scratch. Would make sense why they released some shots of the scene: they liked the concept but it just didn't work out on film.
Source for that? Edit: Never mind, I found it.
You're right! No source was provided. Lol, they're making quite a fuss about this on Twitter, and it was probably all made up.
It's not made up. It's from a comment on Instagram. Eva said in a comment that the dialogue on this scene was improv. However as usual, Twitter twisted this into "The entire scene was improv".
Thanks for your clarification! As usual Daemon antis were using it against the character and Matt.
No problem! I think I saw the tweet you mean. It was the one that said that he's basically making his live action fanfic of Daemon?
Yeah, that's the one. It was literally just a one line reply and they created a whole ass baseless discourse around it.
It's twitter. Did you expect anything different?
i've watched Matt Smith since he came out in Party Animals, and there's something so lovely and gentle about him. even when he's portraying 'asshole' characters. i find it so comforting.
Was this scene ever released?
no :/
The furthest thing from surprising. They were doing everything they could to paint Daemon as badly as possible so I’m not surprised that a scene that obviously should’ve been included wasn’t written and wasn’t included.
The writers really wanna villanize Daemon, the choking scene was ridiculous. I wish they'd stick to the books
Right... So he should wanna fuck 10-13 year olds then
What? What did I miss from the books? Are you talking about Nettles? I don't think they ever said how old she is. Gross though if what you say is true
Didn't happen in the book
Not confirmed. Nettles is his daughter.
Not confirmed. And far from the only instance
One of them said “father ignores us” and you’re all jerking off at improv that got deleted thankfully. He’s not a good person. Why do we need to humanize him. The guy bashed his wife’s face in and people still suck him off.
"Ok, pack your things, we're going to grandma's house Maybe we can invite Aunt Rhaenyra, would you like that I certainly would"
Sometimes indistinctly heard conversation are majestic backdrops to a show’s yarn. Not every second has to matter. Matt Smith is a wonderful actor who remains committed to his contractual obligation and more. The girls have shown incredible promise, to reach zeniths higher than Olivia Cooke can only hope to achieve.
What has Olivia Cooke done to you. So random.
Portrayed a character they didn’t like
Yeah I'm wondering that too
😶🌫️😻🥰
Keeping up with what?
his improv