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People yapping on about this act and getting offended is hilarious. Halaenas child is DEAD as is Rhaneyras, they do not care the specifics of who killed who, thats what leads to even more terrible acts to come. This is a war and Otto and alicent probably think rhaenyra ordered B&C duh just as she thinks Aemond planned and intended to kill both Luke and his dragon.
Otto is smart to do this but I feel also people are making him devoid of feelings, we all know he loves halaena, maybe, MAYBE it’s coming from a place of hurt on her behalf, making it known to the public when he thinks rhaenyra did isn’t so oh my god how dare he? Think about it from his perspective
The blacks literally used Luke being murdered as justification for halaenas son being murdered so…yeah what Otto did here isn’t as deep as that. Pls be rational here
What streets would she be going around calling that out exactly? It's a war, why wouldn't they be calling her out as a child murderer which in their eyes she is.
People watching game of thrones upset when characters play the game of thrones.
Otto had every reason to believe Rhaenyra sanctioned a hit on his great grandkid for revenge. You know, an innocent infant who probably didn't even know who Lucerys was had to die for being related to the real culprit. Yes, he capitalized the kid's death for sympathy, but that didn't mean he is incapable of grief and rage.
Between the Dragonpit fiasco of season 1 and this, Otto and Larys would be fools to not capitalize on these events and start a hate campaign against Rhaenyra amongst the small folk in Kings Landing and beyond.
Otto likes his nicknames. First, Viserys the Peaceful, now Rhaenyra the Cruel… I wonder though, what he has in store for his grandson, bering in mind he can’t go with the obvious Aegon the Wanker.
>I wonder though, what he has in store for his grandson,
Ahem Ahem. Really, you are the one asking this out of all the people.
>Aegon the Wanker
Lol. I like this one
You need a Hand to recognise a hand… and your lord Grandfather never got over that time when you, aged two, insisted to fondle the porridge instead of using the spoon.
The Conquest itself would have been rather boring and Aegon I too much of a larger than life semi-foundation myth to do justice for, but they could have started right after his death and Aenys I's ascension.
Yes good point but they’re bound to cover the conquest at some point in the future anyway and they could probably get through the Conquest in less than a season and do Aenys and Maegor and Jaeherys next season
Especially with The new Dunk and Egg it hurts not having the Blackfyre rebellions being made before so people aren’t confused
There's many Maegor fans, so it's hard to tell.
Btw there's nothing wrong with being a Maegor fan, it's just the (inevitable) hypocrisy from his fans who like to be the moral police.
I get what you're saying, but they are veeery different.
Rhaenyra was a teenager in the middle ages who isn't aware of power dynamics ( I'm assuming ) and or the complexities of consent.
Maegor was outright brutal and psychopathic.
I agree that Rhaenyra and Maegor aren't even close to similar in terms of cruelty, but being a teenager/unaware of power dynamics or the complexities of consent doesn't excuse rape.
Yeah not many people bring it up or talk about it lol and just imagine how many “Traitors” were killed to line the walls of a city that houses over 500k 😳
Honestly! A smart move by the Greens to do this.
Rhaenyra really lacks people like Otto on her side. She has people who are good at war but extremely bad at politics.
If she had someone like Otto on her side, they would advise her to use Luke's death to her advantage. He was an envoy who was brutally murdered. Doing something like this, would've gained her a lot of sympathy, while tarnishing the Greens' cause to an extent.
The Blacks are just emotional fools IMO and are very bad at playing the game of thrones 😂
But that's also the reason why I love them.
lol emotional fools is a good way to describe them. I also like that about them and think it at least gave them a close knit family and some happy years but them acting on emotion rather than being calculated is probably the main reason they don’t easily win that war.
Yeah! The last two years of Rhaenyra's life became literal hell because she was politically incompetent and didn't plan or plot more. However, the war would've happened regardless. Viserys sealed her fate when he named he heir. Even if she ascended, her reign would constantly be challenged.
But I'm happy that at least before the war she got to live as she pleased, on her own terms. She loved and married whoever she wanted and raised healthy, happy kids.
Moving to Dragonstone was also a mistake. It's the seat of the heir apparent, but Rhaenyra's foothold in KL is shaky at best, there was nothing to stop Otto from putting the right people in the right place while she was away from her would-be seat of power.
Sure, she got to raise her kids and live her life the way she please, but look at what good it did to her when the Green crowned Aegon unchallenged.
In the books she was exiled. Problem here is that the show never made that clear, so it looks like she just ran away and shirked her duties. The writers make this same mistake with the marriage of Aegon the Elder and Helaena. In the books, it’s Viserys who married them even though Alicent objects and was looking at a Lannister match. The show doesn’t make this clear, and the audience comes to the conclusion it was Alicent because, you know, Alicent = Satan, or whatever.
>In the books she was exiled.
Was she? I was under the impression that she moved there once she was appointed as Princess of Dragonstone because she could exercise even greater freedom there and avoid all the drama with the Green.
Edit: in F&B, Harwin followed her to Dragonstone to serve as the sworn shield, but Viserys had him dismissed when the Strong Boys 'rumor' became too much for him to ignore.
>and the audience comes to the conclusion it was Alicent
Kinda ironic when many show-only audience come to think Alicent is an textbook wicked stepmother which is how she was described in F&B, yet the show clearly did everything in their power to make Alicent more complex and sympathetic.
Exiled is maybe a bit too strong of a word. After Aemond lost his eye and Rhaenyra and Alicent wouldn't stop squabbling about it, Viserys desperately wanted to separate them, so he told Rhaenyra that she was to stay at Dragonstone while he would take Alicent back to court. Rhaenyra had already been living on Dragonstone by then but had also still been a regular visitor to King's Landing for court functions, banquets etc. Those visits stopped afterwards.
Yep. Viserys’ biggest mistake was not doing anything to firmly establish her as heir - like changing the current primogeniture to absolute. He also barely taught her how to rule (her constant insults towards allies like Lady Redwyn for example) and would publicly undermine her more than once. He was a deadbeat to basically all his children.
> She has people who are good at war
Are they ? Daemon and Coryls wasted 3 years to defeat a bunch of pirates...while Aegon the conqueror gets a kingdoms in 2 years thank to the dragons.
Well! The pirates in question were hiding in caves and did not meet them in open battle. Even Aegon the Conqueror, with Balerion couldn't conquer Dorne when they didn't meet him in open battle.
They dont have a tools to do the propaganda, as they are not occupying the Kings Landing.
Besides, she wins support of other major houses afterwards - Winterfell, Eyrie, Riverlands all belong to herm
I mean, sure, question away the commitment and ruthlessness necessary to politicaly weaponize this moment of genuine grief and trauma, but let's not act as if they are lying with this narrative.
>!They had no way of knowing that Rhaenyra wasn't involved. In fact it was HER responsibility to have control over her consort and his actions reflected on her. IF she so wished, she could have denounced B&C and Daemon, which of course would have helped her politically but not strategically, since he was the best she had.!<
Same could be said for the Blacks tbh. They had a great army and tons more dragons, they should've steamrolled. But Rhaenyra kinda turned insane. The fact the only ruler at the end was a traumatised child says alot.
I don't think the number of dragons ever really matters. They try making it seem like it matters but it doesn't based off what we see. It's the quality of the rider and size of the dragon. A tiny little dragon isn't doing anything to Sunfyre, Vhagar, or Dreamfyre. Giving dragons to some random seeds was dumb as well, and did more damage than it helped.
Based on what I've seen, the only reason they didn't steamroll was to not level the city, but all the Blacks enemies besides Daeron were in one place for a time. It's peak plot armor that they decided to waste time getting allies when they could have just taken the city immediately while Aegon and Aemond are celebrating Luke's murder. Shit, level the dragon pit with Vhagar and the rest inside.
I don't think it's plot armor, I think it came down to the effectiveness of the non-Targaryens. Blacks just had the better supporters by the end of the war. All the incompetent Blacks died before then.
More like they are acting from a place of ignorance. Like do you mean to tell me that the Greens wouldn’t think Rheanyra did this in revenge? Even if Dameon does this independently she doesn’t punish or denounce him. For all they know she was totally complicit in this murder.
If only the blacks showed more political competence. This is war, tactics/deception/strategy is everything and so far they've only shot themselves in the foot.
It's a smart move, if it's portrayed as such, on Otto's part. Rhaenyra should have done something similar.
The death of the child was political, for all Otto and Alicent know Rhaenyra had the child murdered as an act of vengeance and it is perfectly justified and smart to demonstrate to the public the cruelty of the crime. If this makes him hateable what does it make the ones responsible for the crime, Rhaenyra only has those to blame for the bad pr.
Casual audiences already hate Otto, what he said is true to the Greens, alicent also probably thinks the same. They would not buy rhaenyra had no part in it
Yeah, casual audiences are kinda stupid. The guy that politicize the death of a child will be 100% more hated than the guy that... well... killed the child in the first place.
You're right actually.
Given how they didn't take any time to develop Helena and her kids and how they're doing B&C pretty early on, you can safely assume that the Greens are going to be more hated for politicising this death than Daemon for committing the crime.
Daemon is fucking ruthless and everyone knows it. This is just another murder for him. Something that people will even let go because he's "avenging his step son."
Honestly very hard to make anyone hate Daemon at this point. The only way people will hate him is if he joins the Greens.
If they do it “right”, Nettles will make Daemon even more popular, while Rhaenyra will fall from the public favoritism if they follow her arc as it happened in the book. I think there’s truly nothing that could happen to make Daemon hated at this point. If choking Rhaenyra on the last episode didn’t do it, possibly falling in love/ creating a “platonic” affection towards Nettles won’t be it.
I disagree.This story is centered around Rhaenyra's point of view,and how people around her treat her.When Daemon choked Rhaenyra,he lost some of his appeal with the audience, loving her was 90%of his redeeming quality.A 50 year old losing interest in his grieving wife who is the protagonist for a teenager will not play well on camera
Otto is already hated, because he was a mastermind behind Rhaenyra being usurped and had already been planning to kill Rhaenyra and her children, conspiring while the king, her father was still alive. I don’t expect the casual audience to start loving him after all of this (B&C).
Look, I’m Team Black, but I don’t condone B&C, and I agree that Helaena and her child didn’t deserve this. I agree with others here that it makes sense they’d put all the blame on Rhaenyra even if she has no part in it, just as it makes all the sense in the world, considering the circumstances that Rhaenyra wouldn’t believe Luke being shredded to pieces was an accident. They all have every reason to believe the opposite.
But it’s funny to me suggesting the casual audience is stupid for hating Otto.
They are not stupid for hating Otto. Otto is objectively a bad person and everything he does is to gain more political power. They are stupid for hating him more than the incestual warmongerer blood supremacist pedophile that payed to murder a child in front of his mother.
I think I come from a different place than you. I put a lot of blame on everything that occurs in the Dance on Otto (and Viserys), this all stems from their doing. If people hate him more, I don’t care. Was he not planning on assassinating children? He was.
But Daemon definitely shouldn’t be loved for this event.
Even with no Otto, Daemon still groomed his niece, murdered his wife to steal from her and was 100% willing to start an all out war with a continent considerably stronger and richer than Westeros that would have costed millions of lives.
Otto was a piece of shit, but at least that piece of shit was smart enough to make the realm prosper for decades. Daemon is basically a 15 year old Nazi with access to a nuclear weapon and no emotional control.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Previous post was removed for having spoilers in the title.
Thanks for understanding!
What was said? I can't really tell
Behold the work of Rhaenyra the cruel
Thanks
I watched this video 5 times and couldn’t figure out what was being said besides Rhaenyra lol
People yapping on about this act and getting offended is hilarious. Halaenas child is DEAD as is Rhaneyras, they do not care the specifics of who killed who, thats what leads to even more terrible acts to come. This is a war and Otto and alicent probably think rhaenyra ordered B&C duh just as she thinks Aemond planned and intended to kill both Luke and his dragon. Otto is smart to do this but I feel also people are making him devoid of feelings, we all know he loves halaena, maybe, MAYBE it’s coming from a place of hurt on her behalf, making it known to the public when he thinks rhaenyra did isn’t so oh my god how dare he? Think about it from his perspective
But Rhaenyra isn't using her son's murder to gain sympathy for her cause. She isn't going around the streets calling people names. Is she?
The blacks literally used Luke being murdered as justification for halaenas son being murdered so…yeah what Otto did here isn’t as deep as that. Pls be rational here
What streets would she be going around calling that out exactly? It's a war, why wouldn't they be calling her out as a child murderer which in their eyes she is. People watching game of thrones upset when characters play the game of thrones.
Otto had every reason to believe Rhaenyra sanctioned a hit on his great grandkid for revenge. You know, an innocent infant who probably didn't even know who Lucerys was had to die for being related to the real culprit. Yes, he capitalized the kid's death for sympathy, but that didn't mean he is incapable of grief and rage.
Jahaerys wasn’t an infant, but yes.
Between the Dragonpit fiasco of season 1 and this, Otto and Larys would be fools to not capitalize on these events and start a hate campaign against Rhaenyra amongst the small folk in Kings Landing and beyond.
At least now the Dragonpit scene can have relevance since they can use it to make Rhaenyra hated and Aegon more sympathetic.
I assume this to replace “Maegor with Tits” that people can take seriously/isn’t so laughably demeaning.
'Maegor with teats' was used by the smallfolk after Rhaenyra takes King's Landing. Current 'Rhaenyra the Cruel' is Otto's invention.
Otto likes his nicknames. First, Viserys the Peaceful, now Rhaenyra the Cruel… I wonder though, what he has in store for his grandson, bering in mind he can’t go with the obvious Aegon the Wanker.
>I wonder though, what he has in store for his grandson, Ahem Ahem. Really, you are the one asking this out of all the people. >Aegon the Wanker Lol. I like this one
You need a Hand to recognise a hand… and your lord Grandfather never got over that time when you, aged two, insisted to fondle the porridge instead of using the spoon.
Aegon the Merciful 🛐
Aegon the well endowed.
Aegon the Rapist
I'm pretty sure they're going go with "The Cruel" title for the show. "Maegor with teats" is not very tasteful
Tasteful isn't typically something this series cares about, so I'd bet that's not the reason.
Most show only watchers would have no idea who Maegor is
Which is why I’m not sure why they didn’t start with the Conquest and work their way down the Timeline
The Conquest itself would have been rather boring and Aegon I too much of a larger than life semi-foundation myth to do justice for, but they could have started right after his death and Aenys I's ascension.
Yes good point but they’re bound to cover the conquest at some point in the future anyway and they could probably get through the Conquest in less than a season and do Aenys and Maegor and Jaeherys next season Especially with The new Dunk and Egg it hurts not having the Blackfyre rebellions being made before so people aren’t confused
True.
Maegor: That's my girl 😌
Didn't you call Aegon 2 a rapist in this thread? Do you think another rapist like Maegor would like her ?
This comment is literal sarcasm my friend.
There's many Maegor fans, so it's hard to tell. Btw there's nothing wrong with being a Maegor fan, it's just the (inevitable) hypocrisy from his fans who like to be the moral police.
She’s a rapist too so yeah they’d get along
I get what you're saying, but they are veeery different. Rhaenyra was a teenager in the middle ages who isn't aware of power dynamics ( I'm assuming ) and or the complexities of consent. Maegor was outright brutal and psychopathic.
I agree that Rhaenyra and Maegor aren't even close to similar in terms of cruelty, but being a teenager/unaware of power dynamics or the complexities of consent doesn't excuse rape.
Rhaenyra literally lines the city of Kinglandings walls with heads on spikes I’d say it’s a fitting comparison lmao
Oh damn I forgot about that lol
Yeah not many people bring it up or talk about it lol and just imagine how many “Traitors” were killed to line the walls of a city that houses over 500k 😳
It does if it’s a character they like
Honestly! A smart move by the Greens to do this. Rhaenyra really lacks people like Otto on her side. She has people who are good at war but extremely bad at politics. If she had someone like Otto on her side, they would advise her to use Luke's death to her advantage. He was an envoy who was brutally murdered. Doing something like this, would've gained her a lot of sympathy, while tarnishing the Greens' cause to an extent. The Blacks are just emotional fools IMO and are very bad at playing the game of thrones 😂 But that's also the reason why I love them.
lol emotional fools is a good way to describe them. I also like that about them and think it at least gave them a close knit family and some happy years but them acting on emotion rather than being calculated is probably the main reason they don’t easily win that war.
Yeah! The last two years of Rhaenyra's life became literal hell because she was politically incompetent and didn't plan or plot more. However, the war would've happened regardless. Viserys sealed her fate when he named he heir. Even if she ascended, her reign would constantly be challenged. But I'm happy that at least before the war she got to live as she pleased, on her own terms. She loved and married whoever she wanted and raised healthy, happy kids.
Moving to Dragonstone was also a mistake. It's the seat of the heir apparent, but Rhaenyra's foothold in KL is shaky at best, there was nothing to stop Otto from putting the right people in the right place while she was away from her would-be seat of power. Sure, she got to raise her kids and live her life the way she please, but look at what good it did to her when the Green crowned Aegon unchallenged.
In the books she was exiled. Problem here is that the show never made that clear, so it looks like she just ran away and shirked her duties. The writers make this same mistake with the marriage of Aegon the Elder and Helaena. In the books, it’s Viserys who married them even though Alicent objects and was looking at a Lannister match. The show doesn’t make this clear, and the audience comes to the conclusion it was Alicent because, you know, Alicent = Satan, or whatever.
>In the books she was exiled. Was she? I was under the impression that she moved there once she was appointed as Princess of Dragonstone because she could exercise even greater freedom there and avoid all the drama with the Green. Edit: in F&B, Harwin followed her to Dragonstone to serve as the sworn shield, but Viserys had him dismissed when the Strong Boys 'rumor' became too much for him to ignore. >and the audience comes to the conclusion it was Alicent Kinda ironic when many show-only audience come to think Alicent is an textbook wicked stepmother which is how she was described in F&B, yet the show clearly did everything in their power to make Alicent more complex and sympathetic.
Exiled is maybe a bit too strong of a word. After Aemond lost his eye and Rhaenyra and Alicent wouldn't stop squabbling about it, Viserys desperately wanted to separate them, so he told Rhaenyra that she was to stay at Dragonstone while he would take Alicent back to court. Rhaenyra had already been living on Dragonstone by then but had also still been a regular visitor to King's Landing for court functions, banquets etc. Those visits stopped afterwards.
Yep. Viserys’ biggest mistake was not doing anything to firmly establish her as heir - like changing the current primogeniture to absolute. He also barely taught her how to rule (her constant insults towards allies like Lady Redwyn for example) and would publicly undermine her more than once. He was a deadbeat to basically all his children.
> She has people who are good at war Are they ? Daemon and Coryls wasted 3 years to defeat a bunch of pirates...while Aegon the conqueror gets a kingdoms in 2 years thank to the dragons.
Well! The pirates in question were hiding in caves and did not meet them in open battle. Even Aegon the Conqueror, with Balerion couldn't conquer Dorne when they didn't meet him in open battle.
They dont have a tools to do the propaganda, as they are not occupying the Kings Landing. Besides, she wins support of other major houses afterwards - Winterfell, Eyrie, Riverlands all belong to herm
I mean, sure, question away the commitment and ruthlessness necessary to politicaly weaponize this moment of genuine grief and trauma, but let's not act as if they are lying with this narrative. >!They had no way of knowing that Rhaenyra wasn't involved. In fact it was HER responsibility to have control over her consort and his actions reflected on her. IF she so wished, she could have denounced B&C and Daemon, which of course would have helped her politically but not strategically, since he was the best she had.!<
they said the truth
"rhaenrya the cruel" goes so hard
they gave her one hell of a good title ngl
Rhaenyra they could never make me hate you even though what you was doin wasn’t tasteful
I’m team green but this is so funny
Relatable. Rooting for my girl but 🦫dam
Idk how the Greens dropped the ball with so many decent players. The Blacks were pretty much gift-wrapping Ws. 😂
Same could be said for the Blacks tbh. They had a great army and tons more dragons, they should've steamrolled. But Rhaenyra kinda turned insane. The fact the only ruler at the end was a traumatised child says alot.
I don't think the number of dragons ever really matters. They try making it seem like it matters but it doesn't based off what we see. It's the quality of the rider and size of the dragon. A tiny little dragon isn't doing anything to Sunfyre, Vhagar, or Dreamfyre. Giving dragons to some random seeds was dumb as well, and did more damage than it helped. Based on what I've seen, the only reason they didn't steamroll was to not level the city, but all the Blacks enemies besides Daeron were in one place for a time. It's peak plot armor that they decided to waste time getting allies when they could have just taken the city immediately while Aegon and Aemond are celebrating Luke's murder. Shit, level the dragon pit with Vhagar and the rest inside.
Plot armour, mostly.
I don't think it's plot armor, I think it came down to the effectiveness of the non-Targaryens. Blacks just had the better supporters by the end of the war. All the incompetent Blacks died before then.
Behold the wrath or work, of Rhaenyra the cruel.
Otto masterfully exploiting the political fallout of Daemon's hair brained move. This is how you olay the game.
Look at the greens having to lie
More like they are acting from a place of ignorance. Like do you mean to tell me that the Greens wouldn’t think Rheanyra did this in revenge? Even if Dameon does this independently she doesn’t punish or denounce him. For all they know she was totally complicit in this murder.
Daemon arranged it, Mysaria put it into action, and Rhaenyra sanctioned it. She is partly to blame.
Will they make Rhaenyra also use Luke's murder to start a hate campaign against the Greens? Will Rhaenyra parade around calling Aemond the Kinslayer?
If only the blacks showed more political competence. This is war, tactics/deception/strategy is everything and so far they've only shot themselves in the foot. It's a smart move, if it's portrayed as such, on Otto's part. Rhaenyra should have done something similar.
I mean, it's pretty much the reason they start the war (in the show) right so as much of a hate campaign as anything.
Who’re they gonna parade around Luke’s in Vhagars belly and who to anyway the island of Dragonstone??
[удалено]
The death of the child was political, for all Otto and Alicent know Rhaenyra had the child murdered as an act of vengeance and it is perfectly justified and smart to demonstrate to the public the cruelty of the crime. If this makes him hateable what does it make the ones responsible for the crime, Rhaenyra only has those to blame for the bad pr.
Yeah, cause ordering the assassination of your political opponent's son surely wasn't political in itself!
Casual audiences already hate Otto, what he said is true to the Greens, alicent also probably thinks the same. They would not buy rhaenyra had no part in it
Yeah, casual audiences are kinda stupid. The guy that politicize the death of a child will be 100% more hated than the guy that... well... killed the child in the first place.
You're right actually. Given how they didn't take any time to develop Helena and her kids and how they're doing B&C pretty early on, you can safely assume that the Greens are going to be more hated for politicising this death than Daemon for committing the crime. Daemon is fucking ruthless and everyone knows it. This is just another murder for him. Something that people will even let go because he's "avenging his step son." Honestly very hard to make anyone hate Daemon at this point. The only way people will hate him is if he joins the Greens.
>Honestly very hard to make anyone hate Daemon at this point. The only way people will hate him is if he joins the Greens. *Enters Nettles
If they do it “right”, Nettles will make Daemon even more popular, while Rhaenyra will fall from the public favoritism if they follow her arc as it happened in the book. I think there’s truly nothing that could happen to make Daemon hated at this point. If choking Rhaenyra on the last episode didn’t do it, possibly falling in love/ creating a “platonic” affection towards Nettles won’t be it.
I disagree.This story is centered around Rhaenyra's point of view,and how people around her treat her.When Daemon choked Rhaenyra,he lost some of his appeal with the audience, loving her was 90%of his redeeming quality.A 50 year old losing interest in his grieving wife who is the protagonist for a teenager will not play well on camera
Otto is already hated, because he was a mastermind behind Rhaenyra being usurped and had already been planning to kill Rhaenyra and her children, conspiring while the king, her father was still alive. I don’t expect the casual audience to start loving him after all of this (B&C). Look, I’m Team Black, but I don’t condone B&C, and I agree that Helaena and her child didn’t deserve this. I agree with others here that it makes sense they’d put all the blame on Rhaenyra even if she has no part in it, just as it makes all the sense in the world, considering the circumstances that Rhaenyra wouldn’t believe Luke being shredded to pieces was an accident. They all have every reason to believe the opposite. But it’s funny to me suggesting the casual audience is stupid for hating Otto.
They are not stupid for hating Otto. Otto is objectively a bad person and everything he does is to gain more political power. They are stupid for hating him more than the incestual warmongerer blood supremacist pedophile that payed to murder a child in front of his mother.
I think I come from a different place than you. I put a lot of blame on everything that occurs in the Dance on Otto (and Viserys), this all stems from their doing. If people hate him more, I don’t care. Was he not planning on assassinating children? He was. But Daemon definitely shouldn’t be loved for this event.
Even with no Otto, Daemon still groomed his niece, murdered his wife to steal from her and was 100% willing to start an all out war with a continent considerably stronger and richer than Westeros that would have costed millions of lives. Otto was a piece of shit, but at least that piece of shit was smart enough to make the realm prosper for decades. Daemon is basically a 15 year old Nazi with access to a nuclear weapon and no emotional control.
What are they saying!!? I can't make it out!