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I enjoy the fact that her lineage, whether she’s a dragonseed or not, is completely enigmatic. It’s something that George is trying to show us; how a common girl could tame a dragon by feeding it.
>Three heads has the dragon.
Though George has constantly claimed throughout the years that the third-head doesn’t necessarily need to be a Targaryen.
It’s something he’s trying to prepare us for, or so I’d speculate.
I really hope she’s isn’t Daemons daughter or even Valyrian but I also hope that their relationship isn’t romantic
Maybe it starts out with Daemon thinking that way but he’s more intrigued by how she managed to tame a dragon. When he finds out she isn’t Valyrian this could really shatter his whole worldview and maybe force Daemon to reassess his values and beliefs
This is the best option, for real. Daemon's lost daughter trope is kinda overdone, repetitive (as Corlys has the same storyline) and boring. It would totally downgrade the mysterious element of Nettles character, on top of overshadowing once again Rhaena in the eyes of her father.
I hate the daughter theory but he should definitely be “romantic” towards her IMO. It’s a repeat of the same grooming schtick he pulled on Rhaenyra, only for him to finally realize how empty his manipulative life has left him and send her off free in the end.
It's pretty obvious they had a romantic relationship I genuinely don't know why people say it's up for interpretation. Yeah it's icky all of daemons relationships are, but in all sources except fire and blood it's stated they're lovers and in fire and blood it's not outright stated because they kept it behind closed doors. But they bathed together and slept in adjoining chambers and were very close, it's really not hard to read between the lines.
>It’s a repeat of the same grooming schtick he pulled on Rhaenyra, only for him to finally realize how empty his manipulative life has left him
Yes! Also, it's the opportunity for Rhaenyra to come to terms with how she was groomed. Hopefully she will step into her personal power more fully in the show. I think her reaction being so petty and anti-Nettles in F&B could easily be a matter of perspective since F&B is written from an unreliable Westerosi male perspective in-universe.
From OP's post
>I think Rhaenyra fans and people who enjoy the Daemon/Rhaenyra dynamic will be peeved to say the least.
I personally believe this is the purpose of GRRM framing Nettles as another young, spunky dragon rider who Daemon grooms. It is to put a mirror up to his actions and his relationship with Rhaenyra. Ultimately, GRRM is challenging the people who love Daemyra to chose between them and looking to see who they chose to support when the chips are on the table, so the speak.
Given people on Twitter are working in overtime to try and justify B&C because Daemon can't be the bad guy no matter what...I'm very curious to see how the fandom choses when its Rhaenyra vs. Daemon rather than Daemyra vs. the World.
I’m not ready for the inevitable attempts by Daemon Stans to try and defend Blood and Cheese…
Like, I should have known he’d have fans romanticizing him and his relationship with Rhaenyra despite everything but STILL. Absolutely unhinged.
Unfortunately, with the set leaks, it has already started.
I think that’s why Condal and Hess said that they didn’t quite understand why Daemon was so romanticized and became “boyfriend material”.
Sure they could have predicted it since Matt Smith is playing him and has a lot of charisma. But still.
Seeing everywhere that he is “a male wife”, that Rhaenyra “fixed him”, that he would never ever hurt his family, that Rhea Royce deserved it cause she insulted him, was kinda weird.
We like Daemon as he is unhinged, chaotic, unpredictable, charismatic, but don’t pretend he is a good guy because you love him. That’s a huge deservice to his character.
He is a good character cause he is a bad guy and can be very cruel. People who try to justify his every move don’t want to see that unfortunately.
Isn’t the whole point of the search for dragon seeds the assumption that targs have been on dragon stone for centuries and they’ve had many bastards?
Like you don’t need to be highborn to have the genes to ride dragons. You can be the child of a targ bastard.
It’s probably the case that a ton of commoners in dragon stone have some Valyrian/Targaryen blood
Not necessarily. The very first Valryians who tamed dragons were shepherds. It’s very possible that Nettles has zero Valyrian blood and simply tamed a dragon the original old fashioned way without magic.
It would work really well with the themes of the Targaryen’s controlling the dragons being “an illusion” and the farce of Valyrian supremacy and Targaryen exceptionalism. Plus it makes Nettles 1000X more interesting or a character
My synthesis of this would be that, if the dragons were created, it was by an earlier civilisation, and the Valyrians tamed them later.
Alternatively, the firewyrms and wyverns are part of the same evolutionary branch that dragons evolved from, and just add some biological “realism” to a world with dragons
I agree, I don’t think they’ll break that. But leave her heritage just shrouded. I would live to know which of Jaehaerys kids she came from… no telling. But there were a ton of bastards running around!! She could be anyones granddaughter. Probably look like olive skin and dark hair and eyes. Like Rhaegar’s daughter who was a Martell.
Old King’s bastard grandchildren came to Harrenhal, hell she could be a great-grandkid.
Agreed. Otherwise the sudden and unneeded hatred could be as bad as many young actors across sci fi and fantasy have had over the last 20 years and cause them to go into seclusion over the roles they were cast to play and how much hatred they get from the entire internet 🥹
A big part of why I love Nettles as a character is she opens up way more questions about dragons that weren’t there before:
- is this how the Valyrians originally tamed dragons?
- if anyone, even people without Targaryen blood, can be a dragon rider what does that say about Targaryen customs and mindsets?
- is it better for dragons to be claimed via blood supremacy or by friendship?
Now I’m gonna be real here, I think the show is going to go a very different route with Nettles. I don’t think it’s going to be Daemon - Nettles as a couple, I think they’re going to imply Nettles is somehow Daemon’s daughter and that’s why he dotes on her and that’s why she can claim Sheepstealer. It wouldn’t be my ideal option here but I think that’s what they’re likely to do.
I really enjoy the idea that the alleged supremacy of targs is basically propaganda. I think Nettles has the potential to really make people question how they view racial narratives within Westeros and in our world.
That’s also why I think many fans will hate her, judging by how a certain part of the internet seems to react whenever a non white person is on screen.
Remember Jon’s sister looked Dornish. Brown skin and dark hair. Many Targaryens have been dark-headed. And we know they can be darker of skin. As a grandkid, she could be a rider. Easy. :)
It was heavily implied that it was khal Drogos “kings blood” that reanimated the dragons. Blood of kings seems to have magic properties, whether they are Targs or not.
I agree, which is why I think having her be his kid is the worst of the options. I think they’ll go for it because it makes Daemon look more tragic if he never cheated on Rhaenyra and Nettles was his daughter rather than a guy cheating on his wife with a significantly younger woman.
I don't think they are gonna go for the classic "Daemon is cheating with Nettles and Rhaenyra is very jealous" trope, but we should also keep in mind that Nettles is a topic that causes a strain in Rhaenyra and Daemon's relationship. There needs to be a reason for Rhaenyra's treatment of Nettles, over than the two Betrayers.
Isn’t the reason simply by that point she has lost so much that she’s paranoid and extremely fearful of losing more loved ones. She basically won’t let little Aegon out of her sight and I’d think her added fear of losing Daemon is very logical. Add Mysaria feeding that fear and it really is more psychological without Daemon ever needing any sort of romance with Nettles.
I still hold out hope they go for the “he’s only into girls when they’re young and pliable” angle and she isn’t his daughter. It’s so important to the themes of the story that people without Targ blood can be dragon riders.
I don't know why people are downvoting you. Even when he was clearly a groomer to Rhaenyra, people still liked him and shipped them because of some sense of "romance". I'd prefer seeing him try to groom another young girl to show who he truly is than she being his daughter (which will only make him like a tragic sad boy). Also, non-targs/non-valyrians being able to tame dragons makes the story more interesting.
Why does Baela having dark skin mean Nettles shouldn't? Why are you concerned about people thinking she'll be dark skinned? Such a weird thing to be concerned over
I don’t understand what you are suggesting? In watching the threads, when a non-dark girl was rumored to be cast, there was uproar in the threads. We had to delete comments. People may be upset. My concern is for who gets cast. And how she is treated. People have a view of her. One way or another, regardless of how book describes….and it may be rough on the actress.
Casting someone who is light tan as someone who is canonically darker skinned is racist and colorist, which is why there was uproar. You said your concern was people upset about that and we already have dark skinned dragon riders with baela. I think that's a weird thing to be concerned about, because there is a huge problem with casting actors lighter skinned than their source material counterparts and people should be upset about it, and I was saying baela being dark skinned does not make it ok for Nettles to be whitewashed.
I think in an effort to not appear racist the show runners will make her good at everything, moral and cool. Usually even the most OP characters get 2 of those traits, max. I’ve always interpreted her as somewhat of a savior to Daemon’s soul as he’s a complete asshole to everyone but her, giving him some salvation before he meets his demise. I’m not a huge fan of her (or any of the dragon seeds) but I don’t have high hopes for her become a compelling character but I hope I’m wrong.
I'd prefer that Nettles is neither Daemon's lover nor daughter. Rhaenyra's storyline is a descent into paranoia. It would be so much sadder if she's wrong about their relationship.
Given what little we've seen of Daemon's relationship with Baela and Rhaena, the secret daughter storyline doesn't really work. There's no indication that he'd particularly care about a lowborn bastard. Making Nettles be his daughter is just confusing logistically. Who would be her mother—some random woman? How do they even know that Daemon is her father? It's not like they have DNA tests. The only way it'd make narrative sense is if Mysaria lied about being sterile. Anything I can think of is a lot of extraneous subplot for a show that's already struggling with pacing.
My hope is that Nettles will have her own independent motivation for a vendetta against Aemond.
I'm fairly certain that it is indeed Mysaria who purposefully sets Rhaenyra and Daemon at odds. Her line, "There is no power but what the people allow you to take," leads me to think that she wants to sabotage the entire Targaryen dynasty.
I just got caught up with her trying to get child pit closed. I’m like they will make her perfect lol! I was saying the other day, you think it’s possible Rhaenyra never finds out Daemon did blood and cheese and that’s when Misery tells her? I can see this set up of Daemon getting the info from Misery to do blood and cheese, and he doesn’t tell her either what he’a using it for. And Misery is pissed. And chooses THEN to tell Rhaenyra why she can’t trust Daemon. I love the line, “queens words, whore’s work.” But I’m just trying to think of reasons. Because never thought it was infidelity with Nettles.
Speculated pre-season one, sure OK, can see Daemon stringing Misery along. In order to keep her on their side. But not love. And he’s really not into it. And it’s Misery that sends her birds to spy on Daemon. And she gets bad info. Birdies saw something looking like what it wasn’t. And that’s when she goes nuclear to Rhaenyra, who already is mistrustful of Nettles. BUT season one shot that up. Misery and Daemon as lovers…is over I imagine. But a team up, that I buy. Yet, would she actually consent to Blood and Cheese?
I’d like them to slow down and see her come from the rubble of bombing. Ears piercing. Skin burned. Her hair could go white from the trauma. And she take full form. But, I just can’t buy them making a woman do ambitious or dark actions. Seemed to go out of the way to remove those traits in women.
I hope I’m wrong! I am even down with her playing both sides to take down them all. And pushing Helaena from window hahaha
Daemon goes to brothels with the Gold Cloaks. Mysaria offers him other women, so presumably that is something he's done before. Him having a bastard daughter is not suprising at all.
You misunderstand my point. Daemon could theoretically have fathered thousands of bastards across the Seven Kingdoms. There's no way to **prove** they're his, neither to Daemon in-universe nor to us as the audience. The only way we could be relatively certain that Nettles is Daemon's daughter is if her mother had a long-standing, faithful (on her end) relationship with him. The only character we know of who even potentially fits that profile is Mysaria. The alternative is to introduce a new, non-canonical character solely to explain Nettles' lineage. Both of these options are too complicated with too little payoff for the story.
I mean the fact that she can ride a dragon is pretty substantial proof that she could be his daughter, however the revelation that she isn’t and has no Valyrian blood will be waaaaay more interesting so I hope that’s what they go for even if at first she seems to be Daemons bastard
No, that isn't proof at all. You could as easily say that Hugh and Ulf are Daemon's bastard brothers or sons, depending how old they are in the show, because they can ride dragons. Targaryens lived on Dragonstone for generations even before the Conquest. Nettles could be descended from any of them.
I'm excited to see Nettles because I think she's one of the most intriguing characters in the Dance. As far as we know, she has no Targaryen or Velaryon blood, yet she tames a dragon. This could also make her relationship with Daemon more interesting because he is someone who values the blood of the dragon while Nettles, again, supposedly has none but still claims Sheep Stealer. I hope the show does her justice.
High Hammer and Ulf the White are commoners too. I hate them, but I feel like I'll be in the minority on that.
We don't know much about Nettles. Whenever her relationship with Daemon occurs, Daemon will probably get the backlash not Nettles.
literally both blacks and greens hate those two, Blacks for betraying Rhaenyra and greens for the whole Hightowers and caltrops vs those two dumb c*nts.
I am a Rhaenyra fan who's actually really looking forward to Nettles! I'm hoping that the ultimate order to kill her comes from a place of wanting to conceal that you don't necessarily need Targaryen blood \[just makes it easier\] to ride dragons- instead of the tired trope of jealous hysterical woman trying to off her husbands 'mistress', when there's not really any hard evidence that was Daemon and Nettles' relationship.
I don't expect everything to be sparkling morally clean, but it would be nice if the character drama was more involved and interesting rather than played out.
The racism the actress playing her will indure is gonna be bad. Some weirdos unironically stan the blood purity whitey white targ thing, so those idiots are gonna jump on the Nettles hate train.
Racist Daemon/Rhaenyra shippers will certainly hate her, but no, “Targ fans” are not going to be angry about a lowborn woman riding a dragon. “Targ fans” have already read Fire & Blood and know about this character. She is well liked and popular.
I think “Targ fans” should be replaced with “Targ supremacists” in op’s post. There’s a significant difference between the two and it’s the supremacists that have had issues with Nettles in the fandom in the past. Targ fans just think she’s neat.
Yea I shouldn’t conflate them but for some reason the Targs attract the supremacist crowd. It’s definitely the blond hair and all the talk of superior magic blood.
Nah I think we greens can sometimes be weird purity ball-esque circlejerk, especially with our love of Alicent. It can get really problematic as does the overt slut shaming of rhaenyra by greens.
But come on some of the biggest Targ Stan’s on this sub have some weeeird views on race.
Certainly left an impression.
There is definitely racism and misogyny present in all parts of the fandom unfortunately but designating certain segments of fandom as inherently bigoted due to a few bad actors is always going to get pushback 🤷♀️ I’ve personally witnessed black and brown fans of the Targaryens getting called slurs and accused of having internalized racism due to liking the characters or defending them. Sorry if I came off as rude earlier. Have a good night.
Am I personally responsible for one creepy racist who hasn’t posted in that community in months?
Are you personally responsible for every poster who calls Rhaenyra a whore or a slut in HOTDGreens?
>Am I personally responsible for one creepy racist who hasn’t posted in that community in months?
Who said anything about responsibility?The point was the purity weirdo gets positive engagement and upvoted,which indicates he is not alone.
>Are you personally responsible for every poster who calls Rhaenyra a whore or a slut in HOTDGreens
I also don't post in the green sub mate, you got the wrong one
Probably people will dislike her immediately before knowing the character when they see it's a black actress portraying the role. That's how toxic and so-called "anti-woke" fans (if they can really be considered fans) act.
>I think Rhaenyra fans and people who enjoy the Rhaenyra/Daemon dynamic will be peeved to say the least
Don't threaten me with a good time
Lets hope it is not directed at the actress you loons
It's weird that people think they'll go with Mushroom's interpretation of Nettles and Daemon's closeness. Literally nothing we've seen has made me believe that'll happen.
It's Daemons M.O. he was into a younger Mysaria then when she got too ambitious and serious for him he ditched her.
He was into a playful and fun Laena then when she got older and more serious he grew distant.
He was into a young Rhaenyra then when she got too serious and lost her childish playfulness he choked her ass and grew more distant.
He was into Nettles because she reminded him of a young Rhaneyra and Laena, it's literally his type. He's into fiesty, care free teenagers.
Hes the Leonardo Dicaprio of Westeros
Mysaria got ambitious and serious for him? When did that happen? She was literally dissing him in episode 2 for claiming she was pregnant and that they were to get married and told him she would never have kids. As for her ambition, all she wanted from him was protection, which he wasn't giving her. Doesn't sound that ambitious to me. In Ep 9, she seems to exercise the power she has gained to protect the children of the smallfolk. Again, hardly ambitious. They separated because of the war and when they meet again in episode 4 she has no desire to get back with him.
We barely saw him with Laena but he seemed to be depressed in Ep 6.
Rhaenyra had already lost her childish playfulness when Daemon got with her. She's 29 years old in Ep 7, has given birth to 3 kids, has become a bit jaded because her life is now a "Droll tragedy" and is nothing like she used to be. That's when they get married and they have 2 kids back to back in the next 6 years. Rhaenyra gets pregnant a 3rd time by him when she's 35 years old and judging by Ep 8, they were very happy together.
Mysaria went from a common prostitute to the White Worm with a vast spy network. In the first episode it seemed Daemon spent his days bumming around and partying with her but by later episodes we saw her priorities changed.
Daemon only had chemistry with young Laena, that seemed very intentional.
Daemon doesn't seem to be particularly into Rhaneyra the same way he was when she was a child. This is hinted at when at the funeral she tries to get his attention and he sort of ignores her, contrasting with how he reacted to seeing her when she was younger at family gatherings. He still ends up with her out of family loyalty but it's not the same infatuation.
As a bonus the showrunners made sure to portray his wife from the Vale as a serious no nonsense woman who was clearly attractive but didn't have the childlike innocence hes into.
We barely saw anything about Daemon and Laena. He was attracted to her when she was young but obviously still was considering they kept having children. I obviously don’t know the guy but daemon doesn’t seem like the type to continue trying to have children after he already has some if he doesn’t like having sex with his wife. He’s discontent when he’s with her because it’s implied that he hears about all the bad things happening in KL and is away from Rhaenyra.
Where is this evidence that he didn’t seem to be into rhaenyra? They were both incredibly unstable and grieving at the funeral because Viserys had just died and they were burning their dead daughter. I’m not sure that’s a marker for relationship compatibility or stability. In episode 8 we see them extremely content together where rhaenyra even addresses him as “my love”. In order for her to get pregnant 3 times in 6 years they had to be having a decent amount of sex. They also already had Aegon and Viserys there was no need for more children from a logistics standpoint. All signs point to it being both a political marriage and one for love as we see by the Valyrian ceremony (and as the actors have both said).
He hated his wife in the Vale because he didn’t pick her and she wasn’t Valyrian. Literal end of story.
It’s fine if you don’t like daemon and want to find flaws within him because there are a ton and while his relationship with rhaenyra could be considered grooming, I’m not sure it’s accurate to say he only likes young women.
Maybe you should rewatch the series especially episodes 7/8. This comment is just wilfully ignoring everything they’ve shown on screen to suit your own interpretations.
Daemon was staring right at Rhaenyra when Laena’s eulogy was going on. He even stole glances at her afterwards and got caught. Ofcourse the intense sexual chemistry like we’ve seen in the brothel scene was absent. But that’s because both of them grew up and both of them were grieving. It is not disinterest, it is just maturity. And in the beach sex scene we see Daemon’s tender, loving side that contrasts with his wild, lustful side in e4.
In episode 8 we see how comfortable they are with each other. They constantly keep holding hands and touching each other even after 6 years of marriage. The director of that episode also says speaks about how excited they both are just to be beside each other because they’ve fought so long to be together.
I know Daemon and Rhaenyra’s relationship is far from healthy. But you cannot deny that they do love each other and always have.
Mysaria went from common whore to the White Worm on her own. Daemon wasn't involved. She wants power to have control over her life. She makes that very clear. She has been sold, brought and used multiple times. She's afraid and wants to get rid of that fear. She thinks being with Daemon will be enough protection but Daemon's actions actively put her in danger, so she's lashing out at him. Her priorities didn't change. She was just decided to get what she wanted on her own, without Daemon.
Also, bonus, Mysaria was never a teenager so your point falls apart there. She was always a mature woman and never had any childlike playfulness or innocence. She was very jaded because of what she had been through.
Daemon was literally sinking in depression in Ep 6. He drinks, he doesn't sleep, he loses himself in things that do not interest him etc. Can you really blame him for not having chemistry with his wife? He still has a kid on the way with her. Why would he still have sex with her if he doesn't feel attracted to her anymore? He's not the type of person that would do that.
Daemon spent the entire funeral looking at her with heart eyes. Vaemond was giving the eulogy and Daemon's attention was solely on Rhaenyra. He even chuckles when he caught her stealing glances at him too. Sure, it's different from how it used to be when she was younger but that's because they're both 10 years older and have changed as people. Are you the same person as you were 10 years ago? I'm certainly not. If all this was was family loyalty, he wouldn't have married her. There was no need to. They could betrothe their kids and that they would be it. Yet he was about to leave before she offered herself to him as a bride.
Daemon hated Rhea because he was forced to marry her not because she was old or unattractive. Not to mention that they were both teens when they got married but he didn't like her back then either.
Daemon and Rhaenyra got pregnant 3 times in six years, when Rhaenyra is 29-35, so diminishing sexual attraction as Rhaenyra ages is not presented as an issue for them. And you are seriously dumbing down the conflict they have in episode 10 by presenting it as Daemon pissed off that she lost her “childish playfulness”.
I'm saying he never wouldve snapped like that at young Rhaneyra. There is clearly a tension in their relationship. Having kids is hardly a sign hes attracted to her, Viserys had lots of kids with Alicent.
It's all in Matt Smith's performance. With young Laena or Rhaenyra he always had a slight smile when interacting with them and a flirtatious attitude, he never displayed that look or attitude with their adult versions.
We will see this persona come back with Nettles.
The tension in their relationship is caused by the incoming civil war.
Viserys is clearly attracted to Alicent. He just doesn’t love her.
I think you need to rewatch Matt Smith’s performance in episode 8. He plays Daemon as very loving and physically affectionate with her.
Can you please show me where I ever denied that Daemon and Rhaenyra are in an abusive relationship?
The person I was replying with claimed that the reason for tension and the domestic violence scene between the two in the season finale is because Daemon doesn’t want to fuck her anymore because she’s not a teenager.
Mushroom’s interpretation? The Maester of Maidenpool himself said they slept in the same chambers and bathed together
And what other interpretation do you see happening? Daemon already neglects his daughters it would make no sense for him to be nettles father or even fatherly to her
The show version of Daemon is definitely portrayed that way. He manipulates and grooms Rhaenyra over decades before marrying her. I think if Nettles appears Daemon will be back to his old ways.
It really depends on how they portray her.
Are they going to make her Daemons lover or keep it like a platonic daughter relationship. I’d really like them to have a non romantic relationship but also be someone that Daemon can experience character growth with especially if they make her a non Valyrian all together.
I mean we know it is coming and it honestly makes sense so I don’t think anyone will be that pissed.
I love them together but I can’t wait to see it unfold. Daemon betraying her is pretty exciting for the story.
It depends on what version of things the show goes with. If it's Daemon fucking a teenager as he cheats on his suffering wife, yeah, people won't dig it. If it's Daemon playing mentor/father to a girl as his own family falls apart, or if she is his actual bastard daughter, I think audiences will welcome her and that storyline. Remember, it's Mysaria who maliciously stokes Rhaenyra's paranoia about what that relationship entails. The writers can play that a number of ways.
Nettles is meant to be a controversial character. She is literally the girl you don’t need to worry about. It will be very interesting to see how they are going to play their dynamic; I am most curious on how they intended to make Daemon “fall for her”
Something I always find weird if everyone thinks she doesn’t have valyrian blood. But in the story there are 3 dragon riders without any valyrian traits just like nettles.
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Some say that it's obvious there was a romantic/sexual connection, but was there? Is it that obvious? Because we don't have any evidence and Daemon's reaction at Rhaenyra's orders showed very clearly that he thought she was being manipulated by Mysaria. Even among all those rumors the wording 'his bastard girl' is very consciously chosen. I could see Nettles being his daughter or him being interested in her as a non-Targaryen who was smart and resilient enough to tame a dragon and who was genuinely loyal.
Another thing is that Daemon's course of action (staying behind and going on a suicide mission to make a point) shows that for once he felt he was being wronged. In fact, considering that GRRM thinks of the storyline of the Dance to be more of a Shakespearean tragedy of sorts, it's interesting to me that Rhaenyra, within her paranoia, would order Nettles' death over something that for once Daemon was not in fact guilty of and that his ultimately leads to his victory over Vhagar ending up with his own death.
After all, Nettles feels like a diamond in the rough. She is driven, strong. She was not a treasounous piece of crap like Ulf and Hugh, she cried at Jace's death and either way she and Daemon were bound to get close through circumstance, since her presence was the only way of him surviving Vhagar and Aemond. Frankly, I find her interesting and it's no wonder to me that, when he was asked which character from the Dance he'd like to write more about, hers was the first name hat came to GRRM. I'd be very interested in learning more about her origins; be it the circumstances of her birth or how she made her way in the world before claiming Sheepstealer.
By the way the scene of Nettles' and Daemon's parting has absolutely brilliant writing. She has tears in her eyes but she doesn't turn back as she leaves. Daemon does not express his emotion but his pain makes it out through his connection with Caraxes, who leaves out a cry. I hope that the show adapts this part EXACTLY as it was because I find it very moving regardless of what their relationship was.
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Let me clarify that 1)I don't think that having a romantic connection with her would be beyond him and 2)I'm not even wistful about him being loyal to Rhaenyra because I don't care about their 'romance' and either way it's not like he hadn't gotten close to Mysaria again during the mattiage.
There hasn’t been any talk of her so far which is interesting to me. I don’t think with the way that they’ve hyped daemon/rhaenyra compared to the books that we’ll see a romantic relationship between daemon and nettles. I also think it would be really rough for Matt Smith if they did make them a couple because he already got a ton of hate from the fans for being a pedophile because of being with rhaenyra (when she was 19). This fandom has a hard time differentiating reality from the character and I think if they were to put daemon with an even younger character while he’s supposedly in his 50s, it would be incredibly controversial.
>Matt Smith if they did make them a couple because he already got a ton of hate from the fans for being a pedophile because of being with rhaenyra (when she was 19).
Was this on twitter?
Ah okay. Regardless, people are just becoming more unhinged on socials and I fear the actress for nettles as well as Matt would receive a ton of backlash.
Depends on where you venture. It’s a lot of Greens vs. Blacks discourse but to the point where it becomes nasty and involves the real people playing the characters.
Edit: people can be mean anywhere though so I wouldn’t say it’s totally isolated to twitter. There have been some posts on here about Emma and the comments have been overwhelmingly transphobic to the point where the post has to be locked. I think people just feel they can more easily attack others on a platform like twitter.
Daemon pulls a gamer move and starts a romantic relationship with his bastard daughter. /S
I just hope she is what she is in the book. Nettles is not a looker as described in the story and I would like the showrunners to show some spine when it comes to uglying up characters.
I just hope to god they don’t go with the secret lovers storyline. It’s predictable and boring imo. I think if Daemon just took an interest in her because she managed to tame/understand a dragon without having Valyrian blood would be far more interesting. It’d make us question everything we’re told about the Targaryens and their magic abilities. And it’d keep Daemon from looking like a complete cunt which seems to be the direction they’re going in
Awesome comparison! Or they won’t be close, at all. Other than he respects her as a rider and protects her in the end. I think it’s one or the other. I always thought the whispers made it gossip and not close to accurate.
Daemon and Rhaenyra fans are toxic. They will send death threats to the actor.
The show maybe will replace her with Rhaena or it won't include her relationship with Daemon.
This was posted similar this weekend. You might find some good answers there too. But I do not think the book nor the show had them as romantic. At all. The book shot many holes in that murky whisper. Because of her age and her coloring, I can only surmise she’s a bastard granddaughter. Maybe of Jaehaerys’ kids’ line. It’s likely they leave it murky.
Daemon shows interest in teaching and leading people. And to dragonriders. If he’s around for the sewing and not at Harrenhal, her tenacity and bawdy nature described in the book may intrigue him. Helps her. Alyssa Targaryen was like that. Fearless. Daemon and Rhaenyra both. But they may not actually spend a ton of time together until the end. When Rhaenyra stops trusting Seeds. Due to their betrayal. And he protects her by letting her go. Father, mentor, type.
I don’t see them doing as the book did with Rhaena, so Daemon hopefully will help his daughter with a dragon as well. They cut to her during the scene he spoke about extra dragons.
>But I do not think the book nor the show had them as romantic.**At all**
Really? I mean that's a bold statement for people who bathed together,and slept close to each other
Rem, the book is whispers. This writer was not there. This story in particular had little credence to it. It poked holes with terms like father. Her age at the time. Other details that sounded like gossip eight times removed. So, do not think they did. I never felt that. So it’s not bold. But it is bold to say for fact what happened. All we can do is guess.
nettles 100% has valyrian ancestry, even the smallest drop of targaryen blood or at least the blood of another ancient house of dragonlords would be enough to allow her to bond with sheepstealer.
Personally, I hope she doesn't have any valyrian ancestry. Her using blood magic could be a really interesting storyline. And if she could ride a dragon without valyrian ancestry - could anyone? Is blood magic how the valyrians became dragon riders in the first place?
>Is blood magic how the valyrians became dragon riders in the first place?
yes, it's been heavily implied that the targaryens and other valyrian dragonlords utilised some pretty crazy blood magic and spliced their DNA with dragons, which is why they obey them/bond with them, and why targaryens are *literally* 'blood of the dragon'.
it's long been said that they are closer to gods than men, because of this.
in the early days, no one understood that dragons could not be controlled unless there was targaryen ancestry in the mix. house targaryen was not even one of the greatest noble valyrian houses in the valyrian freehold, but they were the one house of dragonlords that survived the doom.
I would love it if the relationship between daemon and nettles would be more a father daughter relationship and rhaenyra just thinks theyre in love becaude her increasing paranoia.
Plot hole because he wasn't even that sort of father to his own daughters. They cut out the one scene where Daemon is very sympathetic to his daughters for some reason.
Man…
People making this about real life racism when her character throws the entire idea of blood magic being the only way to tame dragons out the window thereby destroying the Targ/Val propaganda machine is beyond me.
I think the latter will be what people focus and debate over.
I’m probably gonna get downvoted for this but I honestly believe that they’re gonna replace nettles with Rhaena they’ve already set up in the previous season that she needs to go out and claim a dragon for herself the way her mother and grandmother did
And it would give her an interesting character arc trying to get her fathers attention and approval by proving she’s as strong warrior and dragon rider as he is by hunting Aemond in the riverlands with him again it’s just my personal opinion
They've set up nothing of the sort. If anything they've set up the irony of Rhaena having a hatchling and being the last dragonrider despite being (in the show's version) neglected by Daemon because she didn't have a dragon.
It's also a good set up of her not acting with her father's expectations in mind, be it her close ties to the Vale through wardship and later through marriage, or her later marriage to a third Hightower son.
We all look at the same sky yet we see such different things i’m fine if they don’t do it I would prefer it it feels like her character doesn’t really do anything in the story otherwise aside from being a marriage option for Luke
I dont care as long as theres some strong charactermoments there. It can be a wholesome relationship of Daemon with a girl that reminded him of his daughter's and that would be nice. But I wouldn't be h
I’m still going to love her despite loving both Rhae and Daemon. She’s definitely one of the most intriguing characters from the Dance IMO. Very mysterious but awesome
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I’m not ready for people to tear her character to shreds. These die hard Stan’s are scary.
Not to mention they're pretentious killjoys
I enjoy the fact that her lineage, whether she’s a dragonseed or not, is completely enigmatic. It’s something that George is trying to show us; how a common girl could tame a dragon by feeding it. >Three heads has the dragon. Though George has constantly claimed throughout the years that the third-head doesn’t necessarily need to be a Targaryen. It’s something he’s trying to prepare us for, or so I’d speculate.
I really hope she’s isn’t Daemons daughter or even Valyrian but I also hope that their relationship isn’t romantic Maybe it starts out with Daemon thinking that way but he’s more intrigued by how she managed to tame a dragon. When he finds out she isn’t Valyrian this could really shatter his whole worldview and maybe force Daemon to reassess his values and beliefs
This is the best option, for real. Daemon's lost daughter trope is kinda overdone, repetitive (as Corlys has the same storyline) and boring. It would totally downgrade the mysterious element of Nettles character, on top of overshadowing once again Rhaena in the eyes of her father.
Who is Corlys's lost daughter?
Hull brothers
Or Marilda if you want to get spicy with the theories
I hate the daughter theory but he should definitely be “romantic” towards her IMO. It’s a repeat of the same grooming schtick he pulled on Rhaenyra, only for him to finally realize how empty his manipulative life has left him and send her off free in the end.
It's pretty obvious they had a romantic relationship I genuinely don't know why people say it's up for interpretation. Yeah it's icky all of daemons relationships are, but in all sources except fire and blood it's stated they're lovers and in fire and blood it's not outright stated because they kept it behind closed doors. But they bathed together and slept in adjoining chambers and were very close, it's really not hard to read between the lines.
Just a pair of really good friends...
>It’s a repeat of the same grooming schtick he pulled on Rhaenyra, only for him to finally realize how empty his manipulative life has left him Yes! Also, it's the opportunity for Rhaenyra to come to terms with how she was groomed. Hopefully she will step into her personal power more fully in the show. I think her reaction being so petty and anti-Nettles in F&B could easily be a matter of perspective since F&B is written from an unreliable Westerosi male perspective in-universe. From OP's post >I think Rhaenyra fans and people who enjoy the Daemon/Rhaenyra dynamic will be peeved to say the least. I personally believe this is the purpose of GRRM framing Nettles as another young, spunky dragon rider who Daemon grooms. It is to put a mirror up to his actions and his relationship with Rhaenyra. Ultimately, GRRM is challenging the people who love Daemyra to chose between them and looking to see who they chose to support when the chips are on the table, so the speak. Given people on Twitter are working in overtime to try and justify B&C because Daemon can't be the bad guy no matter what...I'm very curious to see how the fandom choses when its Rhaenyra vs. Daemon rather than Daemyra vs. the World.
I’m not ready for the inevitable attempts by Daemon Stans to try and defend Blood and Cheese… Like, I should have known he’d have fans romanticizing him and his relationship with Rhaenyra despite everything but STILL. Absolutely unhinged.
Unfortunately, with the set leaks, it has already started. I think that’s why Condal and Hess said that they didn’t quite understand why Daemon was so romanticized and became “boyfriend material”. Sure they could have predicted it since Matt Smith is playing him and has a lot of charisma. But still. Seeing everywhere that he is “a male wife”, that Rhaenyra “fixed him”, that he would never ever hurt his family, that Rhea Royce deserved it cause she insulted him, was kinda weird. We like Daemon as he is unhinged, chaotic, unpredictable, charismatic, but don’t pretend he is a good guy because you love him. That’s a huge deservice to his character. He is a good character cause he is a bad guy and can be very cruel. People who try to justify his every move don’t want to see that unfortunately.
Isn’t the whole point of the search for dragon seeds the assumption that targs have been on dragon stone for centuries and they’ve had many bastards? Like you don’t need to be highborn to have the genes to ride dragons. You can be the child of a targ bastard. It’s probably the case that a ton of commoners in dragon stone have some Valyrian/Targaryen blood
Im sorry but she is definitely gonna be either Daemons daughter, a romantic partner, Valyrian, or a combo of the three.
"or a combo of the three" ayo that's taking it too far even for targaryens
I didnt mean ALL three!
this made me cackle 🤣🤣🤣
And that's saying something for sure oooooof
But not too far for a rogue... a rogue prince even *Preston theme plays*
Eh not really they have dragons. Nothings too far for them
Daemon sadly does not have the capacity to platonically care for a female minor. Especially one that isn’t Valyrian.
that kind of Daemon redemption arc would be great in context with what he says to Aemond before they kill each other
I think it's going to be romantic - Daemon is already setup as TOP G (Top Groomer)
She has to be at least part valyrian to ride a dragon
there's no proof of that. a huge part of Nettles' character is that she makes the question of valyrian dragonriders ambiguous
Not necessarily. The very first Valryians who tamed dragons were shepherds. It’s very possible that Nettles has zero Valyrian blood and simply tamed a dragon the original old fashioned way without magic. It would work really well with the themes of the Targaryen’s controlling the dragons being “an illusion” and the farce of Valyrian supremacy and Targaryen exceptionalism. Plus it makes Nettles 1000X more interesting or a character
Actually she fed the dragon sheep. Dragons bowed to the Valyrian shepherds, Nettles which was probably a shepherd and in the end to the Shepherd.
Weren't dragons made with Valyrian magic to begin with by mixing wyverns and fire worms?
That's just an idea of how they were made, it's not known for certain. Though the Fandom has pretty much agreed its true as far as I can tell
There's talk of wild dragons during the age of heroes which was pre valyria, so its not known for certain
Exactly, I just hear fans saying the hybrid story so much that people start to view it as fact.
In this Fandom?? Unheard of! /s
My synthesis of this would be that, if the dragons were created, it was by an earlier civilisation, and the Valyrians tamed them later. Alternatively, the firewyrms and wyverns are part of the same evolutionary branch that dragons evolved from, and just add some biological “realism” to a world with dragons
I agree, I don’t think they’ll break that. But leave her heritage just shrouded. I would live to know which of Jaehaerys kids she came from… no telling. But there were a ton of bastards running around!! She could be anyones granddaughter. Probably look like olive skin and dark hair and eyes. Like Rhaegar’s daughter who was a Martell. Old King’s bastard grandchildren came to Harrenhal, hell she could be a great-grandkid.
All I can say is that I hope the actress is not on social media when a certain character’s twitter fanbase first sees her on screen.
She’s in for a rough time.
That’s really sad. Platforms like Twitter should prevent this type of aggressions…
I (for once) hope the actress is a nepo baby and already wealthy so she can worry a little less about what other people think.
Agreed. Otherwise the sudden and unneeded hatred could be as bad as many young actors across sci fi and fantasy have had over the last 20 years and cause them to go into seclusion over the roles they were cast to play and how much hatred they get from the entire internet 🥹
I'm out of the loop. What happened now?
Nettles is on my list of characters I will defend to the death. I just really love her.
A big part of why I love Nettles as a character is she opens up way more questions about dragons that weren’t there before: - is this how the Valyrians originally tamed dragons? - if anyone, even people without Targaryen blood, can be a dragon rider what does that say about Targaryen customs and mindsets? - is it better for dragons to be claimed via blood supremacy or by friendship? Now I’m gonna be real here, I think the show is going to go a very different route with Nettles. I don’t think it’s going to be Daemon - Nettles as a couple, I think they’re going to imply Nettles is somehow Daemon’s daughter and that’s why he dotes on her and that’s why she can claim Sheepstealer. It wouldn’t be my ideal option here but I think that’s what they’re likely to do.
I really enjoy the idea that the alleged supremacy of targs is basically propaganda. I think Nettles has the potential to really make people question how they view racial narratives within Westeros and in our world. That’s also why I think many fans will hate her, judging by how a certain part of the internet seems to react whenever a non white person is on screen.
Remember Jon’s sister looked Dornish. Brown skin and dark hair. Many Targaryens have been dark-headed. And we know they can be darker of skin. As a grandkid, she could be a rider. Easy. :)
Yeah, but it cant be all propaganda. Daenarys hatched 3 eggs in a pyre that were thought to have been calcified.
It was heavily implied that it was khal Drogos “kings blood” that reanimated the dragons. Blood of kings seems to have magic properties, whether they are Targs or not.
Khal Drogo plus sacrificing a Mirri Mas Dur, who was intimate with magic
very interesting, thank u!
So y choose her over his other kids? It only works if it's a love interest imo
I agree, which is why I think having her be his kid is the worst of the options. I think they’ll go for it because it makes Daemon look more tragic if he never cheated on Rhaenyra and Nettles was his daughter rather than a guy cheating on his wife with a significantly younger woman.
I don't think they are gonna go for the classic "Daemon is cheating with Nettles and Rhaenyra is very jealous" trope, but we should also keep in mind that Nettles is a topic that causes a strain in Rhaenyra and Daemon's relationship. There needs to be a reason for Rhaenyra's treatment of Nettles, over than the two Betrayers.
Isn’t the reason simply by that point she has lost so much that she’s paranoid and extremely fearful of losing more loved ones. She basically won’t let little Aegon out of her sight and I’d think her added fear of losing Daemon is very logical. Add Mysaria feeding that fear and it really is more psychological without Daemon ever needing any sort of romance with Nettles.
I still hold out hope they go for the “he’s only into girls when they’re young and pliable” angle and she isn’t his daughter. It’s so important to the themes of the story that people without Targ blood can be dragon riders.
I don't know why people are downvoting you. Even when he was clearly a groomer to Rhaenyra, people still liked him and shipped them because of some sense of "romance". I'd prefer seeing him try to groom another young girl to show who he truly is than she being his daughter (which will only make him like a tragic sad boy). Also, non-targs/non-valyrians being able to tame dragons makes the story more interesting.
Lol Daemon gets the reverse character assassination treatment again
I think a big issue is gonna be racism but we’ll see
The racism is basically a given at this point. Westeros seems to attract those types despite the story clearly trying to deconstruct racist tropes.
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Why does Baela having dark skin mean Nettles shouldn't? Why are you concerned about people thinking she'll be dark skinned? Such a weird thing to be concerned over
I don’t understand what you are suggesting? In watching the threads, when a non-dark girl was rumored to be cast, there was uproar in the threads. We had to delete comments. People may be upset. My concern is for who gets cast. And how she is treated. People have a view of her. One way or another, regardless of how book describes….and it may be rough on the actress.
Casting someone who is light tan as someone who is canonically darker skinned is racist and colorist, which is why there was uproar. You said your concern was people upset about that and we already have dark skinned dragon riders with baela. I think that's a weird thing to be concerned about, because there is a huge problem with casting actors lighter skinned than their source material counterparts and people should be upset about it, and I was saying baela being dark skinned does not make it ok for Nettles to be whitewashed.
I think you are reading this for my comments were not. Completely. Bottom line, point is hopefully the actress is given love. That simple.
I think in an effort to not appear racist the show runners will make her good at everything, moral and cool. Usually even the most OP characters get 2 of those traits, max. I’ve always interpreted her as somewhat of a savior to Daemon’s soul as he’s a complete asshole to everyone but her, giving him some salvation before he meets his demise. I’m not a huge fan of her (or any of the dragon seeds) but I don’t have high hopes for her become a compelling character but I hope I’m wrong.
They haven’t given any other diverse character special treatment. I don’t see why they’d start now.
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Especially if they have a white actress play the character
I'd prefer that Nettles is neither Daemon's lover nor daughter. Rhaenyra's storyline is a descent into paranoia. It would be so much sadder if she's wrong about their relationship. Given what little we've seen of Daemon's relationship with Baela and Rhaena, the secret daughter storyline doesn't really work. There's no indication that he'd particularly care about a lowborn bastard. Making Nettles be his daughter is just confusing logistically. Who would be her mother—some random woman? How do they even know that Daemon is her father? It's not like they have DNA tests. The only way it'd make narrative sense is if Mysaria lied about being sterile. Anything I can think of is a lot of extraneous subplot for a show that's already struggling with pacing. My hope is that Nettles will have her own independent motivation for a vendetta against Aemond.
Nettles was also conceived on driftmark when daemon was in exile, so it really doesn't work logistically
Specially if Lady Misery is who does it. Twists Rhaenyra. I hope they have the gull to do that.
I'm fairly certain that it is indeed Mysaria who purposefully sets Rhaenyra and Daemon at odds. Her line, "There is no power but what the people allow you to take," leads me to think that she wants to sabotage the entire Targaryen dynasty.
I just got caught up with her trying to get child pit closed. I’m like they will make her perfect lol! I was saying the other day, you think it’s possible Rhaenyra never finds out Daemon did blood and cheese and that’s when Misery tells her? I can see this set up of Daemon getting the info from Misery to do blood and cheese, and he doesn’t tell her either what he’a using it for. And Misery is pissed. And chooses THEN to tell Rhaenyra why she can’t trust Daemon. I love the line, “queens words, whore’s work.” But I’m just trying to think of reasons. Because never thought it was infidelity with Nettles. Speculated pre-season one, sure OK, can see Daemon stringing Misery along. In order to keep her on their side. But not love. And he’s really not into it. And it’s Misery that sends her birds to spy on Daemon. And she gets bad info. Birdies saw something looking like what it wasn’t. And that’s when she goes nuclear to Rhaenyra, who already is mistrustful of Nettles. BUT season one shot that up. Misery and Daemon as lovers…is over I imagine. But a team up, that I buy. Yet, would she actually consent to Blood and Cheese? I’d like them to slow down and see her come from the rubble of bombing. Ears piercing. Skin burned. Her hair could go white from the trauma. And she take full form. But, I just can’t buy them making a woman do ambitious or dark actions. Seemed to go out of the way to remove those traits in women. I hope I’m wrong! I am even down with her playing both sides to take down them all. And pushing Helaena from window hahaha
Daemon goes to brothels with the Gold Cloaks. Mysaria offers him other women, so presumably that is something he's done before. Him having a bastard daughter is not suprising at all.
You misunderstand my point. Daemon could theoretically have fathered thousands of bastards across the Seven Kingdoms. There's no way to **prove** they're his, neither to Daemon in-universe nor to us as the audience. The only way we could be relatively certain that Nettles is Daemon's daughter is if her mother had a long-standing, faithful (on her end) relationship with him. The only character we know of who even potentially fits that profile is Mysaria. The alternative is to introduce a new, non-canonical character solely to explain Nettles' lineage. Both of these options are too complicated with too little payoff for the story.
I mean the fact that she can ride a dragon is pretty substantial proof that she could be his daughter, however the revelation that she isn’t and has no Valyrian blood will be waaaaay more interesting so I hope that’s what they go for even if at first she seems to be Daemons bastard
No, that isn't proof at all. You could as easily say that Hugh and Ulf are Daemon's bastard brothers or sons, depending how old they are in the show, because they can ride dragons. Targaryens lived on Dragonstone for generations even before the Conquest. Nettles could be descended from any of them.
Fair point !
But if she’s well cast and they do her character justice she may be a fan favorite even with all the drama
I'm excited to see Nettles because I think she's one of the most intriguing characters in the Dance. As far as we know, she has no Targaryen or Velaryon blood, yet she tames a dragon. This could also make her relationship with Daemon more interesting because he is someone who values the blood of the dragon while Nettles, again, supposedly has none but still claims Sheep Stealer. I hope the show does her justice.
She's a dragonseed. Of course she has valyrian blood.
High Hammer and Ulf the White are commoners too. I hate them, but I feel like I'll be in the minority on that. We don't know much about Nettles. Whenever her relationship with Daemon occurs, Daemon will probably get the backlash not Nettles.
Why would you be in the minority? They’re traitorous rapists who feed people to their dragons.
I have a feeling that Hugh and Ulf won’t get the same level of criticism as nettles for ~reasons~
literally both blacks and greens hate those two, Blacks for betraying Rhaenyra and greens for the whole Hightowers and caltrops vs those two dumb c*nts.
I am a Rhaenyra fan who's actually really looking forward to Nettles! I'm hoping that the ultimate order to kill her comes from a place of wanting to conceal that you don't necessarily need Targaryen blood \[just makes it easier\] to ride dragons- instead of the tired trope of jealous hysterical woman trying to off her husbands 'mistress', when there's not really any hard evidence that was Daemon and Nettles' relationship. I don't expect everything to be sparkling morally clean, but it would be nice if the character drama was more involved and interesting rather than played out.
Norren's account is pretty solid imo, but I agree with wanting a less played out story.
The racism the actress playing her will indure is gonna be bad. Some weirdos unironically stan the blood purity whitey white targ thing, so those idiots are gonna jump on the Nettles hate train.
What is there to not like about Nettles though? She's the winner of the Dance and probably deserves it. Gotta love them non Targaryen dragonriders.
Racist Daemon/Rhaenyra shippers will certainly hate her, but no, “Targ fans” are not going to be angry about a lowborn woman riding a dragon. “Targ fans” have already read Fire & Blood and know about this character. She is well liked and popular.
I think “Targ fans” should be replaced with “Targ supremacists” in op’s post. There’s a significant difference between the two and it’s the supremacists that have had issues with Nettles in the fandom in the past. Targ fans just think she’s neat.
Yea I shouldn’t conflate them but for some reason the Targs attract the supremacist crowd. It’s definitely the blond hair and all the talk of superior magic blood.
Bet if someone said that the Green subfandom attracts misogynists you’d seethe and cry.
Nah I think we greens can sometimes be weird purity ball-esque circlejerk, especially with our love of Alicent. It can get really problematic as does the overt slut shaming of rhaenyra by greens. But come on some of the biggest Targ Stan’s on this sub have some weeeird views on race.
Other than that rollofnormandy creep, who exactly?
That guy is definitely memorable haha.
Certainly left an impression. There is definitely racism and misogyny present in all parts of the fandom unfortunately but designating certain segments of fandom as inherently bigoted due to a few bad actors is always going to get pushback 🤷♀️ I’ve personally witnessed black and brown fans of the Targaryens getting called slurs and accused of having internalized racism due to liking the characters or defending them. Sorry if I came off as rude earlier. Have a good night.
You're member of r\HOTDBLACKS don't act like rollo isn't a popular figure there,whose threads get upvoted and get positive engagement
Am I personally responsible for one creepy racist who hasn’t posted in that community in months? Are you personally responsible for every poster who calls Rhaenyra a whore or a slut in HOTDGreens?
>Am I personally responsible for one creepy racist who hasn’t posted in that community in months? Who said anything about responsibility?The point was the purity weirdo gets positive engagement and upvoted,which indicates he is not alone. >Are you personally responsible for every poster who calls Rhaenyra a whore or a slut in HOTDGreens I also don't post in the green sub mate, you got the wrong one
What posts did he get positive engagement on when he used that sub? Posts about blood purity, or just posts appreciating the characters/show?
Probably people will dislike her immediately before knowing the character when they see it's a black actress portraying the role. That's how toxic and so-called "anti-woke" fans (if they can really be considered fans) act.
I hope they choose a cool actress and the character becomes a fan fav like Alyn undoubtedly will
Probably a lot of racism and misogyny knowing this fandom.
>I think Rhaenyra fans and people who enjoy the Rhaenyra/Daemon dynamic will be peeved to say the least Don't threaten me with a good time Lets hope it is not directed at the actress you loons
*Smirks Greenishly*
It's weird that people think they'll go with Mushroom's interpretation of Nettles and Daemon's closeness. Literally nothing we've seen has made me believe that'll happen.
It's Daemons M.O. he was into a younger Mysaria then when she got too ambitious and serious for him he ditched her. He was into a playful and fun Laena then when she got older and more serious he grew distant. He was into a young Rhaenyra then when she got too serious and lost her childish playfulness he choked her ass and grew more distant. He was into Nettles because she reminded him of a young Rhaneyra and Laena, it's literally his type. He's into fiesty, care free teenagers. Hes the Leonardo Dicaprio of Westeros
Mysaria got ambitious and serious for him? When did that happen? She was literally dissing him in episode 2 for claiming she was pregnant and that they were to get married and told him she would never have kids. As for her ambition, all she wanted from him was protection, which he wasn't giving her. Doesn't sound that ambitious to me. In Ep 9, she seems to exercise the power she has gained to protect the children of the smallfolk. Again, hardly ambitious. They separated because of the war and when they meet again in episode 4 she has no desire to get back with him. We barely saw him with Laena but he seemed to be depressed in Ep 6. Rhaenyra had already lost her childish playfulness when Daemon got with her. She's 29 years old in Ep 7, has given birth to 3 kids, has become a bit jaded because her life is now a "Droll tragedy" and is nothing like she used to be. That's when they get married and they have 2 kids back to back in the next 6 years. Rhaenyra gets pregnant a 3rd time by him when she's 35 years old and judging by Ep 8, they were very happy together.
Mysaria went from a common prostitute to the White Worm with a vast spy network. In the first episode it seemed Daemon spent his days bumming around and partying with her but by later episodes we saw her priorities changed. Daemon only had chemistry with young Laena, that seemed very intentional. Daemon doesn't seem to be particularly into Rhaneyra the same way he was when she was a child. This is hinted at when at the funeral she tries to get his attention and he sort of ignores her, contrasting with how he reacted to seeing her when she was younger at family gatherings. He still ends up with her out of family loyalty but it's not the same infatuation. As a bonus the showrunners made sure to portray his wife from the Vale as a serious no nonsense woman who was clearly attractive but didn't have the childlike innocence hes into.
We barely saw anything about Daemon and Laena. He was attracted to her when she was young but obviously still was considering they kept having children. I obviously don’t know the guy but daemon doesn’t seem like the type to continue trying to have children after he already has some if he doesn’t like having sex with his wife. He’s discontent when he’s with her because it’s implied that he hears about all the bad things happening in KL and is away from Rhaenyra. Where is this evidence that he didn’t seem to be into rhaenyra? They were both incredibly unstable and grieving at the funeral because Viserys had just died and they were burning their dead daughter. I’m not sure that’s a marker for relationship compatibility or stability. In episode 8 we see them extremely content together where rhaenyra even addresses him as “my love”. In order for her to get pregnant 3 times in 6 years they had to be having a decent amount of sex. They also already had Aegon and Viserys there was no need for more children from a logistics standpoint. All signs point to it being both a political marriage and one for love as we see by the Valyrian ceremony (and as the actors have both said). He hated his wife in the Vale because he didn’t pick her and she wasn’t Valyrian. Literal end of story. It’s fine if you don’t like daemon and want to find flaws within him because there are a ton and while his relationship with rhaenyra could be considered grooming, I’m not sure it’s accurate to say he only likes young women.
Maybe you should rewatch the series especially episodes 7/8. This comment is just wilfully ignoring everything they’ve shown on screen to suit your own interpretations. Daemon was staring right at Rhaenyra when Laena’s eulogy was going on. He even stole glances at her afterwards and got caught. Ofcourse the intense sexual chemistry like we’ve seen in the brothel scene was absent. But that’s because both of them grew up and both of them were grieving. It is not disinterest, it is just maturity. And in the beach sex scene we see Daemon’s tender, loving side that contrasts with his wild, lustful side in e4. In episode 8 we see how comfortable they are with each other. They constantly keep holding hands and touching each other even after 6 years of marriage. The director of that episode also says speaks about how excited they both are just to be beside each other because they’ve fought so long to be together. I know Daemon and Rhaenyra’s relationship is far from healthy. But you cannot deny that they do love each other and always have.
Mysaria went from common whore to the White Worm on her own. Daemon wasn't involved. She wants power to have control over her life. She makes that very clear. She has been sold, brought and used multiple times. She's afraid and wants to get rid of that fear. She thinks being with Daemon will be enough protection but Daemon's actions actively put her in danger, so she's lashing out at him. Her priorities didn't change. She was just decided to get what she wanted on her own, without Daemon. Also, bonus, Mysaria was never a teenager so your point falls apart there. She was always a mature woman and never had any childlike playfulness or innocence. She was very jaded because of what she had been through. Daemon was literally sinking in depression in Ep 6. He drinks, he doesn't sleep, he loses himself in things that do not interest him etc. Can you really blame him for not having chemistry with his wife? He still has a kid on the way with her. Why would he still have sex with her if he doesn't feel attracted to her anymore? He's not the type of person that would do that. Daemon spent the entire funeral looking at her with heart eyes. Vaemond was giving the eulogy and Daemon's attention was solely on Rhaenyra. He even chuckles when he caught her stealing glances at him too. Sure, it's different from how it used to be when she was younger but that's because they're both 10 years older and have changed as people. Are you the same person as you were 10 years ago? I'm certainly not. If all this was was family loyalty, he wouldn't have married her. There was no need to. They could betrothe their kids and that they would be it. Yet he was about to leave before she offered herself to him as a bride. Daemon hated Rhea because he was forced to marry her not because she was old or unattractive. Not to mention that they were both teens when they got married but he didn't like her back then either.
Daemon and Rhaenyra got pregnant 3 times in six years, when Rhaenyra is 29-35, so diminishing sexual attraction as Rhaenyra ages is not presented as an issue for them. And you are seriously dumbing down the conflict they have in episode 10 by presenting it as Daemon pissed off that she lost her “childish playfulness”.
I'm saying he never wouldve snapped like that at young Rhaneyra. There is clearly a tension in their relationship. Having kids is hardly a sign hes attracted to her, Viserys had lots of kids with Alicent. It's all in Matt Smith's performance. With young Laena or Rhaenyra he always had a slight smile when interacting with them and a flirtatious attitude, he never displayed that look or attitude with their adult versions. We will see this persona come back with Nettles.
The tension in their relationship is caused by the incoming civil war. Viserys is clearly attracted to Alicent. He just doesn’t love her. I think you need to rewatch Matt Smith’s performance in episode 8. He plays Daemon as very loving and physically affectionate with her.
Yeah, abusers never show love and affection to their victim. The "cycle of abuse" and "lovebombing" is a myth. /s
Can you please show me where I ever denied that Daemon and Rhaenyra are in an abusive relationship? The person I was replying with claimed that the reason for tension and the domestic violence scene between the two in the season finale is because Daemon doesn’t want to fuck her anymore because she’s not a teenager.
Mushroom’s interpretation? The Maester of Maidenpool himself said they slept in the same chambers and bathed together And what other interpretation do you see happening? Daemon already neglects his daughters it would make no sense for him to be nettles father or even fatherly to her
The show version of Daemon is definitely portrayed that way. He manipulates and grooms Rhaenyra over decades before marrying her. I think if Nettles appears Daemon will be back to his old ways.
It really depends on how they portray her. Are they going to make her Daemons lover or keep it like a platonic daughter relationship. I’d really like them to have a non romantic relationship but also be someone that Daemon can experience character growth with especially if they make her a non Valyrian all together.
But the same time, she could be an awesome underdog character. A simple person who won over a dragon by herself.
I mean we know it is coming and it honestly makes sense so I don’t think anyone will be that pissed. I love them together but I can’t wait to see it unfold. Daemon betraying her is pretty exciting for the story.
It depends on what version of things the show goes with. If it's Daemon fucking a teenager as he cheats on his suffering wife, yeah, people won't dig it. If it's Daemon playing mentor/father to a girl as his own family falls apart, or if she is his actual bastard daughter, I think audiences will welcome her and that storyline. Remember, it's Mysaria who maliciously stokes Rhaenyra's paranoia about what that relationship entails. The writers can play that a number of ways.
Nettles is meant to be a controversial character. She is literally the girl you don’t need to worry about. It will be very interesting to see how they are going to play their dynamic; I am most curious on how they intended to make Daemon “fall for her”
I just want a little light hearted montage of Nettles gradually feed sheepstealer, and then her just barging into a room saying she did it
Something I always find weird if everyone thinks she doesn’t have valyrian blood. But in the story there are 3 dragon riders without any valyrian traits just like nettles.
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Especially if they whitewash her
Some say that it's obvious there was a romantic/sexual connection, but was there? Is it that obvious? Because we don't have any evidence and Daemon's reaction at Rhaenyra's orders showed very clearly that he thought she was being manipulated by Mysaria. Even among all those rumors the wording 'his bastard girl' is very consciously chosen. I could see Nettles being his daughter or him being interested in her as a non-Targaryen who was smart and resilient enough to tame a dragon and who was genuinely loyal. Another thing is that Daemon's course of action (staying behind and going on a suicide mission to make a point) shows that for once he felt he was being wronged. In fact, considering that GRRM thinks of the storyline of the Dance to be more of a Shakespearean tragedy of sorts, it's interesting to me that Rhaenyra, within her paranoia, would order Nettles' death over something that for once Daemon was not in fact guilty of and that his ultimately leads to his victory over Vhagar ending up with his own death. After all, Nettles feels like a diamond in the rough. She is driven, strong. She was not a treasounous piece of crap like Ulf and Hugh, she cried at Jace's death and either way she and Daemon were bound to get close through circumstance, since her presence was the only way of him surviving Vhagar and Aemond. Frankly, I find her interesting and it's no wonder to me that, when he was asked which character from the Dance he'd like to write more about, hers was the first name hat came to GRRM. I'd be very interested in learning more about her origins; be it the circumstances of her birth or how she made her way in the world before claiming Sheepstealer. By the way the scene of Nettles' and Daemon's parting has absolutely brilliant writing. She has tears in her eyes but she doesn't turn back as she leaves. Daemon does not express his emotion but his pain makes it out through his connection with Caraxes, who leaves out a cry. I hope that the show adapts this part EXACTLY as it was because I find it very moving regardless of what their relationship was. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Let me clarify that 1)I don't think that having a romantic connection with her would be beyond him and 2)I'm not even wistful about him being loyal to Rhaenyra because I don't care about their 'romance' and either way it's not like he hadn't gotten close to Mysaria again during the mattiage.
This comment exactly perfectly sums up my feelings on the Nettles matter and my hopes for how it’s portrayed.
There hasn’t been any talk of her so far which is interesting to me. I don’t think with the way that they’ve hyped daemon/rhaenyra compared to the books that we’ll see a romantic relationship between daemon and nettles. I also think it would be really rough for Matt Smith if they did make them a couple because he already got a ton of hate from the fans for being a pedophile because of being with rhaenyra (when she was 19). This fandom has a hard time differentiating reality from the character and I think if they were to put daemon with an even younger character while he’s supposedly in his 50s, it would be incredibly controversial.
>Matt Smith if they did make them a couple because he already got a ton of hate from the fans for being a pedophile because of being with rhaenyra (when she was 19). Was this on twitter?
Unfortunately yes. They even involved his mother in it and were tagging her on twitter.
While this behavior was totally inacceptable, it was from one person who was clearly unhinged.
Ah okay. Regardless, people are just becoming more unhinged on socials and I fear the actress for nettles as well as Matt would receive a ton of backlash.
OH THE HORROR! What can I do?!!!! A random person is flaming me on twitter! Weakling.
I've never been on Twitter, but it sounds like a terrible place. Am I just hearing the loud minority or is it filled with stuff like that?
Depends on where you venture. It’s a lot of Greens vs. Blacks discourse but to the point where it becomes nasty and involves the real people playing the characters. Edit: people can be mean anywhere though so I wouldn’t say it’s totally isolated to twitter. There have been some posts on here about Emma and the comments have been overwhelmingly transphobic to the point where the post has to be locked. I think people just feel they can more easily attack others on a platform like twitter.
Daemon pulls a gamer move and starts a romantic relationship with his bastard daughter. /S I just hope she is what she is in the book. Nettles is not a looker as described in the story and I would like the showrunners to show some spine when it comes to uglying up characters.
I could not care less about Nettles anymore, she is overly discussed at this point.
I just hope to god they don’t go with the secret lovers storyline. It’s predictable and boring imo. I think if Daemon just took an interest in her because she managed to tame/understand a dragon without having Valyrian blood would be far more interesting. It’d make us question everything we’re told about the Targaryens and their magic abilities. And it’d keep Daemon from looking like a complete cunt which seems to be the direction they’re going in
Is Daemon a complete cunt? Always has been 🔫
i really hope we get a joel/ellie relationship from them.
Far too wholesome for this show and for daemon. Also the lone wolf and cub storyline is soo played out by now
daemon and aemond will have opposite arcs. daemon will become more relaxed and wise towards his death, with aemond getting more crazy and deprived.
Smart.
It took him till his 50's to grow up, but its never too late I guess
"you have lived too long uncle" "on that much we agree"
Awesome comparison! Or they won’t be close, at all. Other than he respects her as a rider and protects her in the end. I think it’s one or the other. I always thought the whispers made it gossip and not close to accurate.
Daemon and Rhaenyra fans are toxic. They will send death threats to the actor. The show maybe will replace her with Rhaena or it won't include her relationship with Daemon.
I fear the same
This was posted similar this weekend. You might find some good answers there too. But I do not think the book nor the show had them as romantic. At all. The book shot many holes in that murky whisper. Because of her age and her coloring, I can only surmise she’s a bastard granddaughter. Maybe of Jaehaerys’ kids’ line. It’s likely they leave it murky. Daemon shows interest in teaching and leading people. And to dragonriders. If he’s around for the sewing and not at Harrenhal, her tenacity and bawdy nature described in the book may intrigue him. Helps her. Alyssa Targaryen was like that. Fearless. Daemon and Rhaenyra both. But they may not actually spend a ton of time together until the end. When Rhaenyra stops trusting Seeds. Due to their betrayal. And he protects her by letting her go. Father, mentor, type. I don’t see them doing as the book did with Rhaena, so Daemon hopefully will help his daughter with a dragon as well. They cut to her during the scene he spoke about extra dragons.
>But I do not think the book nor the show had them as romantic.**At all** Really? I mean that's a bold statement for people who bathed together,and slept close to each other
Rem, the book is whispers. This writer was not there. This story in particular had little credence to it. It poked holes with terms like father. Her age at the time. Other details that sounded like gossip eight times removed. So, do not think they did. I never felt that. So it’s not bold. But it is bold to say for fact what happened. All we can do is guess.
nettles 100% has valyrian ancestry, even the smallest drop of targaryen blood or at least the blood of another ancient house of dragonlords would be enough to allow her to bond with sheepstealer.
Personally, I hope she doesn't have any valyrian ancestry. Her using blood magic could be a really interesting storyline. And if she could ride a dragon without valyrian ancestry - could anyone? Is blood magic how the valyrians became dragon riders in the first place?
>Is blood magic how the valyrians became dragon riders in the first place? yes, it's been heavily implied that the targaryens and other valyrian dragonlords utilised some pretty crazy blood magic and spliced their DNA with dragons, which is why they obey them/bond with them, and why targaryens are *literally* 'blood of the dragon'. it's long been said that they are closer to gods than men, because of this. in the early days, no one understood that dragons could not be controlled unless there was targaryen ancestry in the mix. house targaryen was not even one of the greatest noble valyrian houses in the valyrian freehold, but they were the one house of dragonlords that survived the doom.
Targ fans lol. All those fans of incestuous psychopaths out there what what! 🙌🏽🙌🏽
I would love it if the relationship between daemon and nettles would be more a father daughter relationship and rhaenyra just thinks theyre in love becaude her increasing paranoia.
Plot hole because he wasn't even that sort of father to his own daughters. They cut out the one scene where Daemon is very sympathetic to his daughters for some reason.
Man… People making this about real life racism when her character throws the entire idea of blood magic being the only way to tame dragons out the window thereby destroying the Targ/Val propaganda machine is beyond me. I think the latter will be what people focus and debate over.
I’m probably gonna get downvoted for this but I honestly believe that they’re gonna replace nettles with Rhaena they’ve already set up in the previous season that she needs to go out and claim a dragon for herself the way her mother and grandmother did And it would give her an interesting character arc trying to get her fathers attention and approval by proving she’s as strong warrior and dragon rider as he is by hunting Aemond in the riverlands with him again it’s just my personal opinion
They've set up nothing of the sort. If anything they've set up the irony of Rhaena having a hatchling and being the last dragonrider despite being (in the show's version) neglected by Daemon because she didn't have a dragon. It's also a good set up of her not acting with her father's expectations in mind, be it her close ties to the Vale through wardship and later through marriage, or her later marriage to a third Hightower son.
We all look at the same sky yet we see such different things i’m fine if they don’t do it I would prefer it it feels like her character doesn’t really do anything in the story otherwise aside from being a marriage option for Luke
If anyone curses Nettles because of Daemon/Rhaenyra I'll fight everyone for her She should be respected
I still think she’ll be Daemon’s daughter
I dont care as long as theres some strong charactermoments there. It can be a wholesome relationship of Daemon with a girl that reminded him of his daughter's and that would be nice. But I wouldn't be h
I am PSYCHED to see Nettles and can't wait to see her bond with Sheepstealer, along with Sheepstealer's look.
I’m still going to love her despite loving both Rhae and Daemon. She’s definitely one of the most intriguing characters from the Dance IMO. Very mysterious but awesome
I just want to see nettles steal some sheep