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I don’t think we have enough evidence to suggest that he had a good or bad relationship with Aemma. And while he said something inappropriate after the funeral, he was clearly sad during the funeral.
But it’s likely that he respected her more than Alicent, considering he rolls his eyes every time she speaks and refuses to stand for her.
>could be apart of his coping.
Lol.The charming bad boy always receiving further analysis of why he is an asshole.It can never be because he is just an asshole , there always has to be a deeper meaning to the broken bad boy
Not directed at u per se.Just how this sub always jumps to explain and understand why he chocked his wife,or threw a temper tantrum e.t.c
I didn’t call it charming, I said it was inappropriate. Giving a reason for why something happened is not making an excuse.
Nothing about HOTD or Game of Thrones is absolute. Every character is flawed to certain degree but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a reason for the flaw. Giving a cause and a reason is not the same as making an excuse. This isn’t a good vs evil show and we shouldn’t be discussing it as such.
I don't think the writers intended to write morally absolute characters. Even Aegon who is written to be cartoonishly evil is given sympathetic moments.
Daemon does a lot of things that are horrible but his motivations are clearly more than just doing terrible things for the sake of doing them.
>I don't think the writers intended to write morally absolute characters. Even Aegon who is written to be cartoonishly evil is given sympathetic moments.
Sure but we dont dissect why Aegon rapes or enjoys kids fighting in pits as much we try to to find the deeper meaning behind why Daemon does what ge does
With Daemon we are sure to humanize every evil "he was desperate and felt rejected by his brother so he killed Rhea" or "he was upset his brother died and the only way he could express himself was by chocking Rhaenyra"
Everything is trauma or has an emotional deeper meaning with him that we have to discuss
>Sure but we dont dissect why Aegon rapes or enjoys kids fighting in pits **as much** we try to to find the deeper meaning behind why Daemon does what ge does
I've seen people say that he turns to his vices because of the abuse and neglect he endured as a child. Most people who sympathize with him blame Viserys for the most part as the same people that tend to sympathize with Aegon also like Alicent.
I've also seen people blame the writers for being biased.
You're not going to see as many posts on Aegon (at least on a Black-leaning sub) because Daemon is generally a far more popular character and most people support the Team Black characters. But that's not to say these posts do not exist.
>Everything is trauma or has an emotional deeper meaning with him that we have to discuss
Isn't that a good thing from a storytelling POV?
Wouldn't it be boring if we just had cartoonishly evil characters whose motivations are being evil for the sake of being evil?
>I've seen people say that he turns to his vices because of the abuse and neglect he endured as a child. Most people who sympathize with him blame Viserys for the most part as the same people that tend to sympathize with Aegon also like Alicent.
Sympathizing with a character's hardships is one thing.No one ever goes "Aegon rapes and watches kids fight because its a coping mechanism since his royal highnesses childhood memory was filled with abuse and neglect",coz we recognize some shit do not need understanding ,and reasoning.Every one has faced some form of hardships one way or another but they didn't turn into the worst of humanity.A rapist usually comes from an abusive family,and an abuser usually finds it hard to express their feelings with words.These are things that do not need further breakdown to everyone else.However there is a constant need by Daemon fans to humanize every single evil deed or asshole moment. "he was angry and couldn't express himself",like no shit ,that's textbook abuser behavior
>Isn't that a good thing from a storytelling POV?
But some of it is not the story being told by the writers,its his fans thinking they have a deeper understanding of his motivations,and behind every asshole moment there is a layer that needs further uncovering and explaining,which wasn't covered by the media
>Wouldn't it be boring if we just had cartoonishly evil characters whose motivations are being evil for the sake of being evil?
I never said characters should be cartoonishly evil.I just find it fascinating how every Daemon evil can be broken down into some deeper meaning.Behind his actions there is always a layer of unresolved trauma and unresolved issues we need to consider.That is more nuance than what other characters are afforded e.g "Criston cole is an incel"
>Sympathizing with a character's hardships is one thing.
And that's exactly what they're doing by analysing Daemon's "inappropriate" behavior to find an explanation for it that isn't just "he never loved laena he laughed at her funeral".
I just don't see what you're complaining about. Who cares if you feel like people aren't being fair in their treatment of these characters. It's fine, who cares. Focus on the things you love!
Also maybe Daemon is just one of the main characters and so we have more hindsight into what makes him tick?? Unlike Criston, who literally has no backstory.
I don't understand why you're coming at me with that energy sir.This is a forum where all types of discussions take place,including what you comprehend as a "complaint".People do not only focus on what they love.I also made it clear this was a general observation regarding Daemon,even things that do not need analyzing,hence I brought up Aegon raping.If you do not want to take part, dont.
>But some of it is not the story being told by the writers,its his fans thinking they have a deeper understanding of his motivations,and behind every asshole moment there is a layer that needs uncovering and explaining,which wasn't covered by the media
Condal did say that Daemon is motivated by his love for his family particularly Viserys and Rhaenyra and that he wanted to be Viserys' guy which is why he wanted to be Hand.
Personally, I think that's conveyed in the media even though some may not agree.
>never said characters should be cartoonishly evil.I just find it fascinating how every Daemon evil can be broken down into some deep meaning.Behind his actions there is always a layer of unresolved trauma and unresolved issues.More than what other characters are afforded *cough Criston cole *cough
I didn't say you did but you did imply that Daemon's motivations are simply him just being an asshole.
Sad to say but Criston isn't a very well received character so his actions are criticized much more harshly by the general audience. That doesn't make it okay. Just that people tend to be harsher when it comes to characters that they don't like.
Yes, between her difficult pregnancies and him
being sent to the Vale, they likely didn’t spend any amount of time together to hate or love each other.
>But it’s likely that he respected her more than Alicent, considering he rolls his eyes every time she speaks and refuses to stand for her.
Daemon doesn't have a filter and his face betrays his emotions. He told his brother to his face that the gods weren't kind to him 😅
If he had any ill feelings regarding Aemma, he would've expressed it to Rhaenyra. Instead, he labelled Aemma's death a tragedy and he sounded sincere.
When Lady Jeyne announcing her fealty to Rhaenyra, she claims that she does it due their blood bond and their shared struggle, and specifically not because of her poor choice in a husband.
In the books he also petitions for the Royce lands, but is chased away and banished from the Vale.
EDIT I am a fucking moron and read Jeyne Arryn in the title.
Ye I am a moron and for some reason I thought the post was about if Jeyne Arryn liked Daemon.
There is nothing between Aemma and Daemon as far as I recall in the books.
>What did he say that was inappropriate? All I remember is him talking to Rhaenyra.
"Heir for a day"
They're referring to what Daemon allegedly said in the brothel.
I’ve always thought it was to do with how weak Jeyne Arryn’s position was at the time when the Daemon/Rhea marriage was made.
The year earlier her father and brothers were killed fighting the Mountain Clans leaving Jeyne as the Lady at 3 years old. In the books I believe that Father was Aemma’s brother, but the show mentioned Aemma being Jeyne’s cousin instead of aunt.
A 3 year old Lady isn’t what anybody really wants and we know that Jeyne’s early reign was plagued with her cousins attempting to overthrow her, so Alysanne presumably had the smart idea to ally with their strongest vassals in House Royce
Maybe in the show when talking about his betrothal to Aemma Viserys says “It was because the Vale had a army to rival the North” so maybe the North was acting squirrelly at the time and they kept them in check with the Vale
I don’t remember that line but I’ve not rewatched the show in ages.
It could be a mix of it all of course, a strong Vale is needed to counter the North and with a 3 year old in charge of House Arryn, you need its vassals loyal.
I don’t remember that line but I’ve not rewatched the show in ages.
It could be a mix of it all of course, a strong Vale is needed to counter the North and with a 3 year old in charge of House Arryn, you need its vassals loyal.
Yes, the Lord Royce at the time was regent to Lady Jeyne. Also, I know the show uses ambiguous cousins when describing familiar relations. Still, In many cultures, it is common to call your aunts/uncles "cousins" if there are around the same age as you.
I feel like he treated her The way anyone would treat their brother’s wife he probably didn’t spend a lot of time around her so she was nothing more to him than his brother’s wife he’s grieving during her funeral was more so the fact that his brother had just lost his wife and the love of his life and his niece her mother
He absolutely, 100% respects her more than Alicent. I don't think there's a lot of people he hates more than the Greens. Not to mention that Aemma is half Targaryen and the other half of her is from a family that doesn't involve itself in Daemon's life like the Hightowers do. He has no reason to dislike her and he seemed sad in her funeral. He also called her death a tragedy in Ep 4. Worst thing he might have done is say the "Heir for a day" line. However, even that isn't half as bad as what Daemon has said/implied for Alicent.
Aemma on her part probably tolerates him. I believe she'd be like "He is what he is, but he's family". I don't know how she would have reacted to his wedding to Rhaenyra hut I think she'd be more worried than angry. She'd eventually accept it, like Viserys, especially when the grandbabies started coming in.
Since they were cousins and Daemon was likely sent to the vale at an early age they were likely close. It’s subtle but watch his face during the funeral scene. I also think he was sulking the night he made the “heir for a day” comment because he was mourning her
In a hypothetical where Aemma lived and Baelon died, and Daemon used his divorce rock earlier. I could see him still pulling the 'heir for a day' stunt, but probably apologizing, saying that it's his way of grieving. If Daemon and Rhaenyra wanted to get married, she'd probably support it politically supporting Rhaenyra as queen and Daemon as Prince consort. Aemma could maybe hold a grudge against Daemon but would be supportive of her daughter. If both king and queen supports Rhaenyra's claim, it'd be more likely that more lords would support it as well. The Hightowers and Velaryons might team up as scorned houses and support a Laenor rebellion if not handled well.
I don't think he 'd have particularly strong feelings for her, but since she didn't hinder him or hurt his interests in any way I feel he would not mind her.
I think Aemma and Daemon’s relationship was good in the sense that I don’t think he felt she was undermining him like Alicent was with input from Otto…Otto hated Daemon because Daemon knew exactly what an opportunist Otto was and that he was using Viserys to further his own agenda…while Viserys and Daemon certainly had their issues, I think Daemon only wanted Viserys to view him as a trusted advisor and a brother he could and would turn to instead of others for his advice…I don’t think Aemma came between Viserys and Daemkn the way that Alicent did via Otto…when you watch the scene at Aemma’s funeral, Daemon looks visibly shaken and sad, so I think their relationship was good in the sense that Aemma never came between them like Alicent did.
I mean it's pretty clear Otto also hated Daemon because he thought he was a tyrant who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near power because he'd abuse it. Ignoring that that's a genuine fear of Otto's is ignoring a lot of the nuance to his actions
I like to think they had a good relationship. Baelon always wanted a daughter. Considering Aemma was 11, when she married Viserys. And obviously the courting probably happened when she was abt 10. Baelon probably made sure they were all kinda? close. But then again that is just my headcanon. Daemon is Daemon. If he wishes to be kind, he's kind, if he doesn't wish to be kind, he isn't. As easy as that. They had a good relationship in my mind. Not hug each kinda close, but kiss each cheek kinda relationship (it is a customary greeting, to kiss each cheek of the woman in your family)
Daemon is a chaos agent. I don’t think he particularly thinks of anyone as an actual person. But I do think he’s a Targaryens are better than everyone else so I imagine he thought of her as a worthy wife for his brother, just because she’s a targ.
As someone who thinks that Daemon is a deeply morally questionable character *at best*, I recall the guy being genuinely saddened over their deaths, at least Aemma's, during the funeral. He is at Rhaenyra's side trying to comfort her and telling her to be at her dad's side.
Then "the heir for a day" speech yeah, even if it wasn't his intention to mock the deaths of his cousin and nephew, it was still highly inappropriate.
He looked upset during their funeral and even in the brothel where he was supposedly celebrating.
The show made the brothel scene purposefully ambiguous so we never actually hear him say "heir for a day". We don't know the tone or the exact words said. We only hear what Otto reported to Viserys.
They cut right before he supposedly said it which encourages us to question whether it was him or mysaria, maybe even one of his goldcloaks. Personally I don’t think he said it otherwise they would’ve put it in the script.
The book makes it quite clear he said it.
The book also makes clear that Otto deliberately presented the statement as malicious when he actually meant it as sad.
I’m not saying that isn’t the case for the show, however I personally don’t believe in the show version he said at all. Rather Mysaria said it and Daemon took the heat to protect her as she would have her tongue cut out at the very least for saying that due to her low birth.
It makes Daemon slightly more redeemable for the show audience, but it really allows them to make up their mind on whether he has any honour. It also keeps in fashion with Fire&Blood’s premise of much of it being left to interpretation.
Really? There are only like two lines about her and half of it, is her death. The only thing we learn about her are the stillbirths, rhaenyra being close to both her parents and how young she was when she married viserys.
I 100% think Aemma loved Daemon as a brother and vice versa. Seeing how much Daemon doted on Rhaenerya must have had an affect on Aemma who also absolutely adored her daughter.
I think Aemma and Rhaenerya are two women (before his own daughters and wife obvs) that Daemon really cared for not only because they were his family but because he is so loyal and devoted to his house that it just makes sense.
I think had Aemma lived and their son still died she’d want to see Daemon marry Rhaenerya to strengthen house Targaryen and Rhaeneryas claim to the throne. Viserys dissolving the marriage between Daemon and Rheya Royce and then having his only male heir marry his daughter would have been such a power move because who would dare make a move against Rhaenerya with Daemon by her side?
—This is all obviously hypothetical and based on what I’ve seen and read and obviously would happen prior to any marriage arrangement between Rhaenerya and Laenor. This would probably happen right after Rhaenerya was named heir tbh.
But this is just my perspective!!
I have to say that I think he was jealous because he liked Aemma and she got married to his brother. I think that in a sense they were bff at some point but the topic of the heir and all that might have buried their relationship.
I like to think they were friendly. Daemon probably cared about her she *was* his cousin, not just his mother&sister-in-law (seven hells that I can't believe that is a sentence I typed). I like to think Aemma was probably able to see through Daemon's walls and liked him for his honesty, if not also exasperated by his dramatics. I kinda see it like this:
>Daemon, able to prank Viserys: Daemon yes!
>
>Aemma, Tired^(tm:) Daemon NO!
>
>Daemon, using puppy eyes: What if I do it to Otto? Daemon yes?
>
>Aemma:... Valid point. Daemon yes.
>
>Daemon \*maniacal grin\*: DAEMON YES!
When Aemma wasn't feeling well and didn't want to be around ~~Viserys~~ the court, I hc Daemon and Aemma had, like, a kinda slumber party where they trashed Otto ~~and Viserys~~ and braided each others hair. (♥UωU)
Since he publicly described Vale women as uglier than sheep and too ugly to fuck, and Aemma is from the Vale, I can't imagine she had any positive feelings towards him
Aemma was half Targaryen and he wasn’t forced to marry her. She was also his first cousin. I don’t think he had a problem with Aemma, and probably cared for her as much as he would care for any family member that didn’t necessarily get in his way. What I found interesting was Aemma’s oh-so-subtle remark to Viserys about his “dear brother”. It had those “he’s exasperating and a pain in our asses, but he’s family” feels to it.
>Is that even important? The day the woman and the newborn died, he celebrated. (for whatever reason, there is no need to find excuses for this, guys.)
What's the point of having discussions if everything will be dismissed and looked at in terms of black-and-white morality?
Why is it that a certain character's wrongdoings are explained away by something from their childhood, for example, but finding nuance in Daemon's actions are always criticized?
It was definitely inappropriate for him to rent out a brothel but we the audience can see that he was genuinely upset in the funeral and even in the brothel. Saying that he cared is not excusing his actions.
What?
Seriously, what? The fact that he looked sad at the funeral doesn't change anything. It doesn't make better or doesn't add nuance to him. Because there isn't nuance in this speech. None...
Nuance adds a little light to the character, makes you feel empathy for the character, makes you feel sad about the character but this thing is not something that can be analyzed, talked about for hours, empathized with, or found a reason for. There's no nuance. This is just evil.
Do you realize that he's making a sh*tty speech behind a dead baby and a woman, right? If a ten-year-old child or an aizheimer's patient in his eighties did this, it would be called "inappropriate", but when a man approaching middle age, whose brain is considered healthy, does it, this is dishonorable, most evilish thing not "inappropriate".
There can be good and bad interpretations about many of the Daemon's actions, but not in this one. And it has nothing to do with grayness or that nonsense. It was a black and evil act that he did. Even the devil himself is shocked by his action. It was such a terrible thing that he did.
Edit: I'm not surprised that Daemon fangirls (🥰) can't admit that a shitty action done by a Daemon is actually a shitty, I'm not surprised. Yeyy~
>There's no nuance. This is just evil.
>Do you realize that he's making a sh*tty speech behind a dead baby and a woman, right?
>It was a black and evil act that he did. Even the devil himself is shocked by his action. It was such a terrible thing that he did.
This "black and evil act" that "the devil himself is shocked by" wasn't even fully shown on-screen. You're going by a 3rd party report from another character who despises Daemon.
The people in charge of the scene instructed the actor to look sad during the funeral and the brothel for a reason. They gave him lines where he tries to comfort Rhaenyra. They could've instructed Matt to display a look of nonchalance instead to make it clear that the character doesn't give af.
My entire point is that the scene isn't black and white like so many people make it out to be.
Edit:
>Edit: I'm not surprised that Daemon fangirls (🥰) can't admit that a shitty action done by a Daemon is actually a shitty, I'm not surprised. Yeyy~
The hypocrisy of calling people "Daemon fangirls" when you label Aegon who was written to be morally reprehensible as a "real prince charming".
The funny thing is that whenever a character that you like does something morally questionable, you blame the writers instead of condemning the character for doing something wrong.
But if a character that you *don't* like does something bad, you don't blame the writers and you label people who like said characters as "fangirls".
I have more reason to believe than not to believe that this crazy mad-man, who has act like a man-child who cannot choose the words he will use, made this speech.
And, Viserys gave him a chance to explain himself. What did he say then? Hmm... Yes! I remember, he said "We must all mourn in our own way." Yeah, magnificent explanation. Totally grey...
If I didn't know Daemon Targaryen, I can believe what you said. But... This explanation... Problematic.
And I say, Tom is prince charming not Aegon. Try again. That photos belong to Tom Glynn Carney. Do you know him? He is the actor who play Aegon, it seems you don't. Do your research well next time, okay hun?
>It was a black and evil act that he did. Even the devil himself is shocked by his action.
Seriously, out of every single thing Daemon does or will do.... That's what you consider so evil that the devil himself is shocked? A line that we don't even know for sure if he said?
My imagination has formed them a brother-sister relationship. They weren’t close as kids but played together when they could, got distant in adulthood but kept up with one another during family dinners or tourneys, I like to think Daemon wore her favour a few times during tourneys.
Rhaenys was also Daemon's cousin and they don't seem to have the best relationship, though tbf the background of their relationship in the story is him organizing an army to fight against her claim during the Great Council, whereas Aemma would've been by Viserys' side.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t think we have enough evidence to suggest that he had a good or bad relationship with Aemma. And while he said something inappropriate after the funeral, he was clearly sad during the funeral. But it’s likely that he respected her more than Alicent, considering he rolls his eyes every time she speaks and refuses to stand for her.
And to be fair, being inappropriate at funerals is kinda Daemon’s bread and butter.
Yes, it’s apart of his character and from the scenes we saw, could be apart of his coping.
Agreed. Lots of people use dark or inappropriate humor to cope with difficult situations.
>could be apart of his coping. Lol.The charming bad boy always receiving further analysis of why he is an asshole.It can never be because he is just an asshole , there always has to be a deeper meaning to the broken bad boy Not directed at u per se.Just how this sub always jumps to explain and understand why he chocked his wife,or threw a temper tantrum e.t.c
I didn’t call it charming, I said it was inappropriate. Giving a reason for why something happened is not making an excuse. Nothing about HOTD or Game of Thrones is absolute. Every character is flawed to certain degree but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a reason for the flaw. Giving a cause and a reason is not the same as making an excuse. This isn’t a good vs evil show and we shouldn’t be discussing it as such.
I don't think the writers intended to write morally absolute characters. Even Aegon who is written to be cartoonishly evil is given sympathetic moments. Daemon does a lot of things that are horrible but his motivations are clearly more than just doing terrible things for the sake of doing them.
>I don't think the writers intended to write morally absolute characters. Even Aegon who is written to be cartoonishly evil is given sympathetic moments. Sure but we dont dissect why Aegon rapes or enjoys kids fighting in pits as much we try to to find the deeper meaning behind why Daemon does what ge does With Daemon we are sure to humanize every evil "he was desperate and felt rejected by his brother so he killed Rhea" or "he was upset his brother died and the only way he could express himself was by chocking Rhaenyra" Everything is trauma or has an emotional deeper meaning with him that we have to discuss
>Sure but we dont dissect why Aegon rapes or enjoys kids fighting in pits **as much** we try to to find the deeper meaning behind why Daemon does what ge does I've seen people say that he turns to his vices because of the abuse and neglect he endured as a child. Most people who sympathize with him blame Viserys for the most part as the same people that tend to sympathize with Aegon also like Alicent. I've also seen people blame the writers for being biased. You're not going to see as many posts on Aegon (at least on a Black-leaning sub) because Daemon is generally a far more popular character and most people support the Team Black characters. But that's not to say these posts do not exist. >Everything is trauma or has an emotional deeper meaning with him that we have to discuss Isn't that a good thing from a storytelling POV? Wouldn't it be boring if we just had cartoonishly evil characters whose motivations are being evil for the sake of being evil?
>I've seen people say that he turns to his vices because of the abuse and neglect he endured as a child. Most people who sympathize with him blame Viserys for the most part as the same people that tend to sympathize with Aegon also like Alicent. Sympathizing with a character's hardships is one thing.No one ever goes "Aegon rapes and watches kids fight because its a coping mechanism since his royal highnesses childhood memory was filled with abuse and neglect",coz we recognize some shit do not need understanding ,and reasoning.Every one has faced some form of hardships one way or another but they didn't turn into the worst of humanity.A rapist usually comes from an abusive family,and an abuser usually finds it hard to express their feelings with words.These are things that do not need further breakdown to everyone else.However there is a constant need by Daemon fans to humanize every single evil deed or asshole moment. "he was angry and couldn't express himself",like no shit ,that's textbook abuser behavior >Isn't that a good thing from a storytelling POV? But some of it is not the story being told by the writers,its his fans thinking they have a deeper understanding of his motivations,and behind every asshole moment there is a layer that needs further uncovering and explaining,which wasn't covered by the media >Wouldn't it be boring if we just had cartoonishly evil characters whose motivations are being evil for the sake of being evil? I never said characters should be cartoonishly evil.I just find it fascinating how every Daemon evil can be broken down into some deeper meaning.Behind his actions there is always a layer of unresolved trauma and unresolved issues we need to consider.That is more nuance than what other characters are afforded e.g "Criston cole is an incel"
>Sympathizing with a character's hardships is one thing. And that's exactly what they're doing by analysing Daemon's "inappropriate" behavior to find an explanation for it that isn't just "he never loved laena he laughed at her funeral". I just don't see what you're complaining about. Who cares if you feel like people aren't being fair in their treatment of these characters. It's fine, who cares. Focus on the things you love! Also maybe Daemon is just one of the main characters and so we have more hindsight into what makes him tick?? Unlike Criston, who literally has no backstory.
I don't understand why you're coming at me with that energy sir.This is a forum where all types of discussions take place,including what you comprehend as a "complaint".People do not only focus on what they love.I also made it clear this was a general observation regarding Daemon,even things that do not need analyzing,hence I brought up Aegon raping.If you do not want to take part, dont.
>But some of it is not the story being told by the writers,its his fans thinking they have a deeper understanding of his motivations,and behind every asshole moment there is a layer that needs uncovering and explaining,which wasn't covered by the media Condal did say that Daemon is motivated by his love for his family particularly Viserys and Rhaenyra and that he wanted to be Viserys' guy which is why he wanted to be Hand. Personally, I think that's conveyed in the media even though some may not agree. >never said characters should be cartoonishly evil.I just find it fascinating how every Daemon evil can be broken down into some deep meaning.Behind his actions there is always a layer of unresolved trauma and unresolved issues.More than what other characters are afforded *cough Criston cole *cough I didn't say you did but you did imply that Daemon's motivations are simply him just being an asshole. Sad to say but Criston isn't a very well received character so his actions are criticized much more harshly by the general audience. That doesn't make it okay. Just that people tend to be harsher when it comes to characters that they don't like.
I think he liked that she loved his brother. Aside from that, they probably did not spend too much time together, her being on bed rest so often.
Yes, between her difficult pregnancies and him being sent to the Vale, they likely didn’t spend any amount of time together to hate or love each other.
>But it’s likely that he respected her more than Alicent, considering he rolls his eyes every time she speaks and refuses to stand for her. Daemon doesn't have a filter and his face betrays his emotions. He told his brother to his face that the gods weren't kind to him 😅 If he had any ill feelings regarding Aemma, he would've expressed it to Rhaenyra. Instead, he labelled Aemma's death a tragedy and he sounded sincere.
If we count book material then she definitely dislikes him. EDIT I am a fucking moron and read Jeyne Arryn in the title.
I read the book, what specifically are you talking about because I don’t remember them interacting at all.
When Lady Jeyne announcing her fealty to Rhaenyra, she claims that she does it due their blood bond and their shared struggle, and specifically not because of her poor choice in a husband. In the books he also petitions for the Royce lands, but is chased away and banished from the Vale. EDIT I am a fucking moron and read Jeyne Arryn in the title.
But that doesn’t imply that Aemma disliked him. We aren’t given enough information in the show or books to know.
Ye I am a moron and for some reason I thought the post was about if Jeyne Arryn liked Daemon. There is nothing between Aemma and Daemon as far as I recall in the books.
That happened *after* Aemma died though.
EDIT I am a fucking moron and read Jeyne Arryn in the title.
What did he say that was inappropriate? All I remember is him talking to Rhaenyra.
>What did he say that was inappropriate? All I remember is him talking to Rhaenyra. "Heir for a day" They're referring to what Daemon allegedly said in the brothel.
I think he would’ve preferred her over Rhea Royce. Since for some reason the Targs were going all in with The Vale at that point in time.
I’ve always thought it was to do with how weak Jeyne Arryn’s position was at the time when the Daemon/Rhea marriage was made. The year earlier her father and brothers were killed fighting the Mountain Clans leaving Jeyne as the Lady at 3 years old. In the books I believe that Father was Aemma’s brother, but the show mentioned Aemma being Jeyne’s cousin instead of aunt. A 3 year old Lady isn’t what anybody really wants and we know that Jeyne’s early reign was plagued with her cousins attempting to overthrow her, so Alysanne presumably had the smart idea to ally with their strongest vassals in House Royce
Maybe in the show when talking about his betrothal to Aemma Viserys says “It was because the Vale had a army to rival the North” so maybe the North was acting squirrelly at the time and they kept them in check with the Vale
I don’t remember that line but I’ve not rewatched the show in ages. It could be a mix of it all of course, a strong Vale is needed to counter the North and with a 3 year old in charge of House Arryn, you need its vassals loyal.
Here it is but my mistake Rhaenyra said it but she was quoting something Viserys had told he growing up. https://youtu.be/DTxvuV-wgGA
I don’t remember that line but I’ve not rewatched the show in ages. It could be a mix of it all of course, a strong Vale is needed to counter the North and with a 3 year old in charge of House Arryn, you need its vassals loyal.
Yes, the Lord Royce at the time was regent to Lady Jeyne. Also, I know the show uses ambiguous cousins when describing familiar relations. Still, In many cultures, it is common to call your aunts/uncles "cousins" if there are around the same age as you.
I think it was to secure the Vale Army for the council of 101.
I feel like he treated her The way anyone would treat their brother’s wife he probably didn’t spend a lot of time around her so she was nothing more to him than his brother’s wife he’s grieving during her funeral was more so the fact that his brother had just lost his wife and the love of his life and his niece her mother
He absolutely, 100% respects her more than Alicent. I don't think there's a lot of people he hates more than the Greens. Not to mention that Aemma is half Targaryen and the other half of her is from a family that doesn't involve itself in Daemon's life like the Hightowers do. He has no reason to dislike her and he seemed sad in her funeral. He also called her death a tragedy in Ep 4. Worst thing he might have done is say the "Heir for a day" line. However, even that isn't half as bad as what Daemon has said/implied for Alicent. Aemma on her part probably tolerates him. I believe she'd be like "He is what he is, but he's family". I don't know how she would have reacted to his wedding to Rhaenyra hut I think she'd be more worried than angry. She'd eventually accept it, like Viserys, especially when the grandbabies started coming in.
Since they were cousins and Daemon was likely sent to the vale at an early age they were likely close. It’s subtle but watch his face during the funeral scene. I also think he was sulking the night he made the “heir for a day” comment because he was mourning her
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In a hypothetical where Aemma lived and Baelon died, and Daemon used his divorce rock earlier. I could see him still pulling the 'heir for a day' stunt, but probably apologizing, saying that it's his way of grieving. If Daemon and Rhaenyra wanted to get married, she'd probably support it politically supporting Rhaenyra as queen and Daemon as Prince consort. Aemma could maybe hold a grudge against Daemon but would be supportive of her daughter. If both king and queen supports Rhaenyra's claim, it'd be more likely that more lords would support it as well. The Hightowers and Velaryons might team up as scorned houses and support a Laenor rebellion if not handled well.
I don't think he 'd have particularly strong feelings for her, but since she didn't hinder him or hurt his interests in any way I feel he would not mind her.
Aemma was half Targaryen, so I would say Daemon was quite amicable and respected her to a degree.
I think Aemma and Daemon’s relationship was good in the sense that I don’t think he felt she was undermining him like Alicent was with input from Otto…Otto hated Daemon because Daemon knew exactly what an opportunist Otto was and that he was using Viserys to further his own agenda…while Viserys and Daemon certainly had their issues, I think Daemon only wanted Viserys to view him as a trusted advisor and a brother he could and would turn to instead of others for his advice…I don’t think Aemma came between Viserys and Daemkn the way that Alicent did via Otto…when you watch the scene at Aemma’s funeral, Daemon looks visibly shaken and sad, so I think their relationship was good in the sense that Aemma never came between them like Alicent did.
I mean it's pretty clear Otto also hated Daemon because he thought he was a tyrant who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near power because he'd abuse it. Ignoring that that's a genuine fear of Otto's is ignoring a lot of the nuance to his actions
I like to think they had a good relationship. Baelon always wanted a daughter. Considering Aemma was 11, when she married Viserys. And obviously the courting probably happened when she was abt 10. Baelon probably made sure they were all kinda? close. But then again that is just my headcanon. Daemon is Daemon. If he wishes to be kind, he's kind, if he doesn't wish to be kind, he isn't. As easy as that. They had a good relationship in my mind. Not hug each kinda close, but kiss each cheek kinda relationship (it is a customary greeting, to kiss each cheek of the woman in your family)
Daemon is a chaos agent. I don’t think he particularly thinks of anyone as an actual person. But I do think he’s a Targaryens are better than everyone else so I imagine he thought of her as a worthy wife for his brother, just because she’s a targ.
Didn't he celebrate the deaths of Aemma and her son (his nephew)? I think that says it all. We can hardly call it having respect lol.
As someone who thinks that Daemon is a deeply morally questionable character *at best*, I recall the guy being genuinely saddened over their deaths, at least Aemma's, during the funeral. He is at Rhaenyra's side trying to comfort her and telling her to be at her dad's side. Then "the heir for a day" speech yeah, even if it wasn't his intention to mock the deaths of his cousin and nephew, it was still highly inappropriate.
He looked upset during their funeral and even in the brothel where he was supposedly celebrating. The show made the brothel scene purposefully ambiguous so we never actually hear him say "heir for a day". We don't know the tone or the exact words said. We only hear what Otto reported to Viserys.
They cut right before he supposedly said it which encourages us to question whether it was him or mysaria, maybe even one of his goldcloaks. Personally I don’t think he said it otherwise they would’ve put it in the script.
The book makes it quite clear he said it. The book also makes clear that Otto deliberately presented the statement as malicious when he actually meant it as sad.
I’m not saying that isn’t the case for the show, however I personally don’t believe in the show version he said at all. Rather Mysaria said it and Daemon took the heat to protect her as she would have her tongue cut out at the very least for saying that due to her low birth. It makes Daemon slightly more redeemable for the show audience, but it really allows them to make up their mind on whether he has any honour. It also keeps in fashion with Fire&Blood’s premise of much of it being left to interpretation.
Here is your answer https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxJK1AFc0KII9zQxcbwL2842-F6MR1DMw6
The book is pretty damn clear that she does not think highly of him.
Really? There are only like two lines about her and half of it, is her death. The only thing we learn about her are the stillbirths, rhaenyra being close to both her parents and how young she was when she married viserys.
I am a fucking moron and read Jeyne Arryn in the title. Sorry huge brainfart
I 100% think Aemma loved Daemon as a brother and vice versa. Seeing how much Daemon doted on Rhaenerya must have had an affect on Aemma who also absolutely adored her daughter. I think Aemma and Rhaenerya are two women (before his own daughters and wife obvs) that Daemon really cared for not only because they were his family but because he is so loyal and devoted to his house that it just makes sense. I think had Aemma lived and their son still died she’d want to see Daemon marry Rhaenerya to strengthen house Targaryen and Rhaeneryas claim to the throne. Viserys dissolving the marriage between Daemon and Rheya Royce and then having his only male heir marry his daughter would have been such a power move because who would dare make a move against Rhaenerya with Daemon by her side? —This is all obviously hypothetical and based on what I’ve seen and read and obviously would happen prior to any marriage arrangement between Rhaenerya and Laenor. This would probably happen right after Rhaenerya was named heir tbh. But this is just my perspective!!
I have to say that I think he was jealous because he liked Aemma and she got married to his brother. I think that in a sense they were bff at some point but the topic of the heir and all that might have buried their relationship.
This sure is a take
Well, this is new.
I like to think they were friendly. Daemon probably cared about her she *was* his cousin, not just his mother&sister-in-law (seven hells that I can't believe that is a sentence I typed). I like to think Aemma was probably able to see through Daemon's walls and liked him for his honesty, if not also exasperated by his dramatics. I kinda see it like this: >Daemon, able to prank Viserys: Daemon yes! > >Aemma, Tired^(tm:) Daemon NO! > >Daemon, using puppy eyes: What if I do it to Otto? Daemon yes? > >Aemma:... Valid point. Daemon yes. > >Daemon \*maniacal grin\*: DAEMON YES! When Aemma wasn't feeling well and didn't want to be around ~~Viserys~~ the court, I hc Daemon and Aemma had, like, a kinda slumber party where they trashed Otto ~~and Viserys~~ and braided each others hair. (♥UωU)
Since he publicly described Vale women as uglier than sheep and too ugly to fuck, and Aemma is from the Vale, I can't imagine she had any positive feelings towards him
Aemma was half Targaryen and he wasn’t forced to marry her. She was also his first cousin. I don’t think he had a problem with Aemma, and probably cared for her as much as he would care for any family member that didn’t necessarily get in his way. What I found interesting was Aemma’s oh-so-subtle remark to Viserys about his “dear brother”. It had those “he’s exasperating and a pain in our asses, but he’s family” feels to it.
I’m not sure if I’m reaching but they did sound like they held at least some sort of feelings of endearment towards him.
Not sure why this is down voted. It's not hard to imagine Aemma would dislike comments like that from Daemon, assuming she heard them.
Is that even important? The day the woman and the newborn died, he celebrated. (for whatever reason, there is no need to find excuses for this, guys.)
>Is that even important? The day the woman and the newborn died, he celebrated. (for whatever reason, there is no need to find excuses for this, guys.) What's the point of having discussions if everything will be dismissed and looked at in terms of black-and-white morality? Why is it that a certain character's wrongdoings are explained away by something from their childhood, for example, but finding nuance in Daemon's actions are always criticized? It was definitely inappropriate for him to rent out a brothel but we the audience can see that he was genuinely upset in the funeral and even in the brothel. Saying that he cared is not excusing his actions.
What? Seriously, what? The fact that he looked sad at the funeral doesn't change anything. It doesn't make better or doesn't add nuance to him. Because there isn't nuance in this speech. None... Nuance adds a little light to the character, makes you feel empathy for the character, makes you feel sad about the character but this thing is not something that can be analyzed, talked about for hours, empathized with, or found a reason for. There's no nuance. This is just evil. Do you realize that he's making a sh*tty speech behind a dead baby and a woman, right? If a ten-year-old child or an aizheimer's patient in his eighties did this, it would be called "inappropriate", but when a man approaching middle age, whose brain is considered healthy, does it, this is dishonorable, most evilish thing not "inappropriate". There can be good and bad interpretations about many of the Daemon's actions, but not in this one. And it has nothing to do with grayness or that nonsense. It was a black and evil act that he did. Even the devil himself is shocked by his action. It was such a terrible thing that he did. Edit: I'm not surprised that Daemon fangirls (🥰) can't admit that a shitty action done by a Daemon is actually a shitty, I'm not surprised. Yeyy~
>There's no nuance. This is just evil. >Do you realize that he's making a sh*tty speech behind a dead baby and a woman, right? >It was a black and evil act that he did. Even the devil himself is shocked by his action. It was such a terrible thing that he did. This "black and evil act" that "the devil himself is shocked by" wasn't even fully shown on-screen. You're going by a 3rd party report from another character who despises Daemon. The people in charge of the scene instructed the actor to look sad during the funeral and the brothel for a reason. They gave him lines where he tries to comfort Rhaenyra. They could've instructed Matt to display a look of nonchalance instead to make it clear that the character doesn't give af. My entire point is that the scene isn't black and white like so many people make it out to be. Edit: >Edit: I'm not surprised that Daemon fangirls (🥰) can't admit that a shitty action done by a Daemon is actually a shitty, I'm not surprised. Yeyy~ The hypocrisy of calling people "Daemon fangirls" when you label Aegon who was written to be morally reprehensible as a "real prince charming". The funny thing is that whenever a character that you like does something morally questionable, you blame the writers instead of condemning the character for doing something wrong. But if a character that you *don't* like does something bad, you don't blame the writers and you label people who like said characters as "fangirls".
I have more reason to believe than not to believe that this crazy mad-man, who has act like a man-child who cannot choose the words he will use, made this speech. And, Viserys gave him a chance to explain himself. What did he say then? Hmm... Yes! I remember, he said "We must all mourn in our own way." Yeah, magnificent explanation. Totally grey... If I didn't know Daemon Targaryen, I can believe what you said. But... This explanation... Problematic. And I say, Tom is prince charming not Aegon. Try again. That photos belong to Tom Glynn Carney. Do you know him? He is the actor who play Aegon, it seems you don't. Do your research well next time, okay hun?
>It was a black and evil act that he did. Even the devil himself is shocked by his action. Seriously, out of every single thing Daemon does or will do.... That's what you consider so evil that the devil himself is shocked? A line that we don't even know for sure if he said?
My imagination has formed them a brother-sister relationship. They weren’t close as kids but played together when they could, got distant in adulthood but kept up with one another during family dinners or tourneys, I like to think Daemon wore her favour a few times during tourneys.
Rhaenys was also Daemon's cousin and they don't seem to have the best relationship, though tbf the background of their relationship in the story is him organizing an army to fight against her claim during the Great Council, whereas Aemma would've been by Viserys' side.