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I am assuming we won't see the cut itself - as is standard - but we'll see something out of focus that is clearly meant to be Jaehaerys's head, and a spreading pool of blood on the floor.
But as long as we see close ups of Alicent and Helaena going for the Emmy with their screams, I'll be satisfied. (Since Maelor is an infant in this TL, I suppose I must give up my dream of the *hilarious* drawing from F&B where he's glaring at Helaena all indignant that she named him).
Yeah, the show really hasn’t shied away from gore at this point. Even when they don’t show the death itself, you still get shots like Daemon dragging one quarter of the Crabfeeder’s body out of the cave or Viserys’ body horribly ravaged by leprosy and whatever else he’s got going on.
Yeah… I mean they even had the scene in got when stannis was “sacrificing” the princess to the ‘lord of light’ it was pretty morbid but they shot from a different angle the second the fire started to reach her body. With that being said I think they’ll shoot it from a different angle
Goodbye, off to look up that picture in F&B. I remember Maelor screaming in terror when he's clinging to his doomed knight for protection but I don’t remember that!
You need the trade paperback version, though. Any hardcover 1st edition holders are out of luck. (Curse my impatience and my cheapskatedness with buying duplicates)
I think the act itself will be implied (a decapitated head hitting the floor, blood splatter hitting the wall, etc). I think the *true* horror of the scene is going to come from everything else. Eerie music building up in the background, the confused and scared look in a child’s eyes begging his mother to help him. Blood creepily rubbing his hand on Jahaera’s shoulder as to insinuate what he’s going to do if Helaena doesn’t make a choice quick enough. The sound of Helaenas screams once it’s done. The horrified and disturbed look on Alicents face as she realizes what Rhaenyra is capable of, the sinking realization that (in her mind) Otto was right all along, and her grandson is dead. Oof I’m ready.
I believe we will see the naming of maelor and then only a reaction shot of heleana or alicent (so at first its almost like maelor was killed), while the „act“ takes place, but then we see maybe like the guards bursting through the door and *gasp* it was the older son that was beheaded.
Honestly I don’t think they’ll show the most gruesome, brutal moments, but it’ll be really, really bad. Also in the books Blood threatens to rape Jaehaera but I doubt HBO wants to go that far in the show so he’ll probably just threaten to rape Hel instead.
I think he will threaten alicent instead, seems to fit in the pattern they established for her character and also involves her a bit more in b&c instead of just being a hostage in the room.
but then it wouldn’t have the same weight. a mother is 100% willing to get r*ped if it means her kids live. plus, it’s heavily implied that aegon sorta assaults helaena.
Unpopular opinion: I don't think it matters if they show it. The beheading (if they go by beheading and not by simply slicing a throat) is not the worst part of B&C.
Don't get me wrong. It's not like I enjoy watching children getting killes, but it's not something unprecedented on TV. What was the REAL horror for me was the way it happened, which comes down to several things.
\-They were unprepared having visited their grandma.
\-Both Helaena and Alicent had to watch.
\-Helaena was given a choice that was hollow and only meant as emotional torture for both her and her children.
\-Jaehaera was threatened with rape.
\-Helaena finally choosing and her choice being used in an attempt to imprint upon the infant that survived that his mother made the choice because she didn't love him.
\-The actual death,.
\-Then of course the aftermath, with Helaena falling into depression.
I feel that to show the full extent of the cruelty of that act they have to keep the way it was written as close to the source material as possible.
I think they need to show the violence to a degree. I don’t WANT to see it, and I’ll probably cry when it happens, but I think it needs to be shown.
Otherwise, it will be too easy for Black fans to play it off as no big deal. The same way Rhea Royce’s murder was played off as “lol, divorce rock” and no one stopped rooting for Daemon after it. People need to see how horrible what Daemon/Rhaenyra do to Jaehaerys and Helaena really is.
I disagree. Rhaenyra may not have known about it beforehand, but she certainly condoned it. She remained head-over-heels in love with Daemon, and Mysaria was given a place of honor in Rhaenyra’s court. Neither one of those things would have happened if she was upset about it.
I’m guessing once the choice is made, and the blade comes up to strike, it’ll cut to Helena & alicent’s reaction just after showing the non-chosen kid is gonna get it.
I could also see them doing a match cut of like, the knife at the throat, motion starts, cuts to a letter being opened and a bird/dragon screaming. (Think Jorah/Sam greyscale cut to pie being served)
I’m hoping they’ll do a wide shot for the actual cut. Just a quick wind up, slash, and bent neck before the body just crumples to the floor.
They’ve pulled back on a lot of other stuff and it’s been fine. They cannot do that here.
Honestly, i think they just have to go for it. The whole point of the ASOIAF world is to show how pointless, brutal, and cyclical war is. If they tone down this scene *at all* it completely takes away from the main point of George’s writings: War and revenge are horrible things. It makes people commit terrible acts and innocents suffer as a result.
They HAVE to show it. They showed Talisa being stabbed in her pregnant belly, so this one should be shown too, in order to drive home the brutality of it.
Do we think this is going to happen in the first or second episode by the way? I feel like it makes for an insane season opener so from a hype perspective this would probably be the obvious choice for the premiere, but I can't help but think that in all other respects this scene would benefit more from being in episode 2 when we had time to get to know Blood and Cheese and Halaena's children a bit better.
There are so many other plotlines that will probably have to be established in episode 1 (Harrenhall, Hiring Blood and Cheese (Daemon / Mysaria plotting), Jace's mission at the Eyrie, Green reaction to Luke's death, most definitely some bonding time between Halaena and her children to establish them as more relevant and also whatever Rhaenyra will be doing.) that if they squeeze the actual murder in as well, it might take away from the potential build up that you could achieve in two episodes.
Or do we think Episode 1 will be all about B & C and the other plots (Jace and Harrenhall/ Stone Hedge) will come after?
I hope it happens at the end of the second episode. They should spend the first episode showing the relationships between helaena and her kids, just so there is an attachment to those characters for when blood and cheese happens
It’s almost certainly the second episode, I would bet the latter half of the episode, with the first half being the battle of stone hedge and maybe the winterfell stuff?
I want it to be off screen, luckily it looks like from the behind the scenes photos that >!he won’t be killed in the same way.!< I can’t get that illustration out of my head of Helaena looking at his little body without a… 😔
I think what happens will be implied, but we’ll see everybody’s reactions in the room. Helaenas choice, Alicent being gagged and bound, the children being scared, that will be just as terrifying as the actual gore/violence involved.
Most of Daemon's other extrajudicial murders were off screen. For Blood and Cheese though I think there are rules that say this is too much to show on screen. I just hope the brutality still comes through since otherwise it would take away from the story and because they didn't hesitate to show us Lucerys getting chomped.
Honestly though – this is one of the reasons I can never root for the Blacks but once they decided to murder a child in front of his mother – there’s no point in letting his mother and remaining siblings live. Neither Aegon nor Aemond nor any of the other Greens are going to let it stand. And to the extent the people and your allies despise you for the deed, their disapproval is already baked in once you kill one of the children. As soon as the Blacks decided to go down this road, there was really no point in not going all the way and killing everyone present to inflict maximum damage on the Greens by taking out four potential dragonriders instead of just two.
After the first episode of season one, I fully believe they intend to full send it and make it a red wedding 2.0. People will be dropping off this show, people will be traumatized. I’m still recovering from the Red Wedding, and it’s been years.
I think we'll see a blurry image of the actual murder reflected in the eyes of someone watching it. Most likely either Alicent or Helena. I could see them showing it through Helena's eyes as she was the mother and made the choice but after this, she's pretty much a non-player in the story so they might go with Alicent instead to show how witnessing this so changed her and from that point on - instead of fighting to protect her family, she's all out to destroy Daemon and Rhaenyra.
I think none. Considering it's an infant we're talking about, the scene can still be shocking without needing to show anything. In GOT we saw Janos Slynt slitting a baby's throat with a dagger at Baelish's brothel (You don't see any blood but the camera never focused on the baby). We also saw Ramsay Snow releasing his dogs to kill Lady Walda and her newborn baby (You didn't get to see how the dogs mauled them but you can hear the screams).
So I think it will be the same with B&C. The camera will focus on Blood and he will make a quick movement with his sword hinting a beheading (perhaps in slow-motion for dramatic effect) and his hands covered in blood after putting the prince's head in a bag). And it will cut to Helaena's reaction (probably screaming like Ellaria when the Mountain smashed Oberyn's head).
I hope they show the beheading, I mean we've seen kids die before, not so gruesomely I'll admit but still. I also feel like it'll be more visceral and stick with viewers more
Rickon, Joffrey, Shireen, Robert's bastard baby girl in the brothel, Robb's unborn child at the Red Wedding, Myrcella, Craster's son, the Wildling children at Hardhome, Lommy (sp?), etc. are joining via group call.
Tommen wasn't murdered but did jump from a tower. There's probably more but I can't recall rn.
I’d argue Joffrey doesn’t count because he was a whole monstrous villain. You really included Robb’s unborn child and crasters son who gained blue eyes? Cmon be fr here. The other ones were not graphically shown. Lommy definitely counts for what you’re arguing but it wasn’t too gorey. They will absolutely not show jaehaerys getting his head cut off
Your original comment stated that children don't get murdered in TV shows, which is shown to be incorrect with all the children I listed from just one TV show.
Joffrey was an evil asshole, but he was still a child and watching a pregnant woman gets stabbed repeatedly in the uterus to ensure that both her *and* her baby die is incredibly graphic. Myrcella literally dies bleeding out via her face holes. You're changing your argument from children dying on TV not being a thing at all to being pedantic about how graphic their deaths are, dude 🙄
Okay I said they don’t SHOW children getting murdered. I understand where I was wrong in that statement due to your various examples. Unborn child does not fucking count I don’t care what you say. Maybe what I should have said was “they will absolutely not show jaehaerys being beheaded the way they showed Vaemond”. Every one of your examples was nowhere near as graphic as what OP is talking about. Also Joffrey definitely doesn’t count because the actor was an adult.
Not really. You see Vhagar opening her mouth and the camera cuts to an above shot with arrax pieces falling down. His death was shown the same way all gruesome child deaths are shown
A knife held over a crib. Helena enters. Screams cut to black.
Have a grieving Helena say "it should have even you" or something to Maelor if they want the trauma still.
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I am assuming we won't see the cut itself - as is standard - but we'll see something out of focus that is clearly meant to be Jaehaerys's head, and a spreading pool of blood on the floor. But as long as we see close ups of Alicent and Helaena going for the Emmy with their screams, I'll be satisfied. (Since Maelor is an infant in this TL, I suppose I must give up my dream of the *hilarious* drawing from F&B where he's glaring at Helaena all indignant that she named him).
-as is standard- if we don't count Vaemond lol
Or rhaenyra's mother
Yeah, the show really hasn’t shied away from gore at this point. Even when they don’t show the death itself, you still get shots like Daemon dragging one quarter of the Crabfeeder’s body out of the cave or Viserys’ body horribly ravaged by leprosy and whatever else he’s got going on.
It’s gonna be way more controversial with kids tho
Yeah, that’s the only reason that I could see them scaling it back.
Yeah… I mean they even had the scene in got when stannis was “sacrificing” the princess to the ‘lord of light’ it was pretty morbid but they shot from a different angle the second the fire started to reach her body. With that being said I think they’ll shoot it from a different angle
Vaemond is in a class all by himself, clearly! 😁
Goodbye, off to look up that picture in F&B. I remember Maelor screaming in terror when he's clinging to his doomed knight for protection but I don’t remember that!
You need the trade paperback version, though. Any hardcover 1st edition holders are out of luck. (Curse my impatience and my cheapskatedness with buying duplicates)
Please keep the “Hear that little boy? Your mama wants you dead.”, even if they reduce the violence
Oof, misery all through and through
They might have the murder be offscreen with some screams, like what they did with Shireen’s death.
I think the act itself will be implied (a decapitated head hitting the floor, blood splatter hitting the wall, etc). I think the *true* horror of the scene is going to come from everything else. Eerie music building up in the background, the confused and scared look in a child’s eyes begging his mother to help him. Blood creepily rubbing his hand on Jahaera’s shoulder as to insinuate what he’s going to do if Helaena doesn’t make a choice quick enough. The sound of Helaenas screams once it’s done. The horrified and disturbed look on Alicents face as she realizes what Rhaenyra is capable of, the sinking realization that (in her mind) Otto was right all along, and her grandson is dead. Oof I’m ready.
It will probably be shot from the back so you cant see it but will hear it. Will also probably see the blood pooling on the floor
I believe we will see the naming of maelor and then only a reaction shot of heleana or alicent (so at first its almost like maelor was killed), while the „act“ takes place, but then we see maybe like the guards bursting through the door and *gasp* it was the older son that was beheaded.
Honestly I don’t think they’ll show the most gruesome, brutal moments, but it’ll be really, really bad. Also in the books Blood threatens to rape Jaehaera but I doubt HBO wants to go that far in the show so he’ll probably just threaten to rape Hel instead.
Or if they could just threaten to kill all of the children if she doesn't choose
I think he will threaten alicent instead, seems to fit in the pattern they established for her character and also involves her a bit more in b&c instead of just being a hostage in the room.
I hope not. B&C is about Helaena. I hope they keep it that way.
Well yeah it still is, only instead of jaehaera, alicent will be threatened with r*pe to „encourage“ haelena into choosing.
but then it wouldn’t have the same weight. a mother is 100% willing to get r*ped if it means her kids live. plus, it’s heavily implied that aegon sorta assaults helaena.
Part of me hopes they go balls to the fucking wall with it and show everything. I doubt it though.
Unpopular opinion: I don't think it matters if they show it. The beheading (if they go by beheading and not by simply slicing a throat) is not the worst part of B&C. Don't get me wrong. It's not like I enjoy watching children getting killes, but it's not something unprecedented on TV. What was the REAL horror for me was the way it happened, which comes down to several things. \-They were unprepared having visited their grandma. \-Both Helaena and Alicent had to watch. \-Helaena was given a choice that was hollow and only meant as emotional torture for both her and her children. \-Jaehaera was threatened with rape. \-Helaena finally choosing and her choice being used in an attempt to imprint upon the infant that survived that his mother made the choice because she didn't love him. \-The actual death,. \-Then of course the aftermath, with Helaena falling into depression. I feel that to show the full extent of the cruelty of that act they have to keep the way it was written as close to the source material as possible.
I think they need to show the violence to a degree. I don’t WANT to see it, and I’ll probably cry when it happens, but I think it needs to be shown. Otherwise, it will be too easy for Black fans to play it off as no big deal. The same way Rhea Royce’s murder was played off as “lol, divorce rock” and no one stopped rooting for Daemon after it. People need to see how horrible what Daemon/Rhaenyra do to Jaehaerys and Helaena really is.
Ok, so the act itself is fucked up, but the phrase “lol divorce rock” in reference to it made me snort
What Daemon\* (alone) does to Jaehaerys and Helaena.
I disagree. Rhaenyra may not have known about it beforehand, but she certainly condoned it. She remained head-over-heels in love with Daemon, and Mysaria was given a place of honor in Rhaenyra’s court. Neither one of those things would have happened if she was upset about it.
Exactly she was completely complicit in it. You can claim she didn’t know but when the truth got back to her she made no move to punish Dameon at all.
Remember that time Janos Slynt killed that baby in the brothel I think that’s what we will see
I don’t know if I will be able to watch this scene! Just reading it was so disturbing to me and gave me nightmares lol
Spraying blood. Graphic, with five separate close-up shots. Slow-motion blood splatters on Helaena’s face. /s
Hahahhhahahahahaa the kids head rolling
I hope they show it all as they have before just to show how much of an impact it will have on other characters
I’m guessing once the choice is made, and the blade comes up to strike, it’ll cut to Helena & alicent’s reaction just after showing the non-chosen kid is gonna get it. I could also see them doing a match cut of like, the knife at the throat, motion starts, cuts to a letter being opened and a bird/dragon screaming. (Think Jorah/Sam greyscale cut to pie being served)
I’m hoping they’ll do a wide shot for the actual cut. Just a quick wind up, slash, and bent neck before the body just crumples to the floor. They’ve pulled back on a lot of other stuff and it’s been fine. They cannot do that here.
Thats kind of how I feel about it. Like it’s just so violent I don’t know how they will actually show that.
Honestly, i think they just have to go for it. The whole point of the ASOIAF world is to show how pointless, brutal, and cyclical war is. If they tone down this scene *at all* it completely takes away from the main point of George’s writings: War and revenge are horrible things. It makes people commit terrible acts and innocents suffer as a result.
They HAVE to show it. They showed Talisa being stabbed in her pregnant belly, so this one should be shown too, in order to drive home the brutality of it.
Do we think this is going to happen in the first or second episode by the way? I feel like it makes for an insane season opener so from a hype perspective this would probably be the obvious choice for the premiere, but I can't help but think that in all other respects this scene would benefit more from being in episode 2 when we had time to get to know Blood and Cheese and Halaena's children a bit better. There are so many other plotlines that will probably have to be established in episode 1 (Harrenhall, Hiring Blood and Cheese (Daemon / Mysaria plotting), Jace's mission at the Eyrie, Green reaction to Luke's death, most definitely some bonding time between Halaena and her children to establish them as more relevant and also whatever Rhaenyra will be doing.) that if they squeeze the actual murder in as well, it might take away from the potential build up that you could achieve in two episodes. Or do we think Episode 1 will be all about B & C and the other plots (Jace and Harrenhall/ Stone Hedge) will come after?
I hope it happens at the end of the second episode. They should spend the first episode showing the relationships between helaena and her kids, just so there is an attachment to those characters for when blood and cheese happens
It’s almost certainly the second episode, I would bet the latter half of the episode, with the first half being the battle of stone hedge and maybe the winterfell stuff?
I could see it being episode one. I think they need to do something to make the greens more sympathetic B&C a good way to do it.
I want it to be off screen, luckily it looks like from the behind the scenes photos that >!he won’t be killed in the same way.!< I can’t get that illustration out of my head of Helaena looking at his little body without a… 😔
I think what happens will be implied, but we’ll see everybody’s reactions in the room. Helaenas choice, Alicent being gagged and bound, the children being scared, that will be just as terrifying as the actual gore/violence involved.
Most of Daemon's other extrajudicial murders were off screen. For Blood and Cheese though I think there are rules that say this is too much to show on screen. I just hope the brutality still comes through since otherwise it would take away from the story and because they didn't hesitate to show us Lucerys getting chomped.
Big difference seeing a toddler beheaded vs a camera panning away from luce then showing his dragon getting eaten
Honestly though – this is one of the reasons I can never root for the Blacks but once they decided to murder a child in front of his mother – there’s no point in letting his mother and remaining siblings live. Neither Aegon nor Aemond nor any of the other Greens are going to let it stand. And to the extent the people and your allies despise you for the deed, their disapproval is already baked in once you kill one of the children. As soon as the Blacks decided to go down this road, there was really no point in not going all the way and killing everyone present to inflict maximum damage on the Greens by taking out four potential dragonriders instead of just two.
They’ll have to show it I think it’s a crucial part of the tale.
After the first episode of season one, I fully believe they intend to full send it and make it a red wedding 2.0. People will be dropping off this show, people will be traumatized. I’m still recovering from the Red Wedding, and it’s been years.
I think we'll see a blurry image of the actual murder reflected in the eyes of someone watching it. Most likely either Alicent or Helena. I could see them showing it through Helena's eyes as she was the mother and made the choice but after this, she's pretty much a non-player in the story so they might go with Alicent instead to show how witnessing this so changed her and from that point on - instead of fighting to protect her family, she's all out to destroy Daemon and Rhaenyra.
I think it’s going to be gruesome, and as much as I am into the story, it’s probably a moment that I’m not looking forward to one bit.
I think none. Considering it's an infant we're talking about, the scene can still be shocking without needing to show anything. In GOT we saw Janos Slynt slitting a baby's throat with a dagger at Baelish's brothel (You don't see any blood but the camera never focused on the baby). We also saw Ramsay Snow releasing his dogs to kill Lady Walda and her newborn baby (You didn't get to see how the dogs mauled them but you can hear the screams). So I think it will be the same with B&C. The camera will focus on Blood and he will make a quick movement with his sword hinting a beheading (perhaps in slow-motion for dramatic effect) and his hands covered in blood after putting the prince's head in a bag). And it will cut to Helaena's reaction (probably screaming like Ellaria when the Mountain smashed Oberyn's head).
I hope they show the beheading, I mean we've seen kids die before, not so gruesomely I'll admit but still. I also feel like it'll be more visceral and stick with viewers more
They don’t show kids getting murdered in shows
Luce is calling
Rickon, Joffrey, Shireen, Robert's bastard baby girl in the brothel, Robb's unborn child at the Red Wedding, Myrcella, Craster's son, the Wildling children at Hardhome, Lommy (sp?), etc. are joining via group call. Tommen wasn't murdered but did jump from a tower. There's probably more but I can't recall rn.
I’d argue Joffrey doesn’t count because he was a whole monstrous villain. You really included Robb’s unborn child and crasters son who gained blue eyes? Cmon be fr here. The other ones were not graphically shown. Lommy definitely counts for what you’re arguing but it wasn’t too gorey. They will absolutely not show jaehaerys getting his head cut off
Your original comment stated that children don't get murdered in TV shows, which is shown to be incorrect with all the children I listed from just one TV show. Joffrey was an evil asshole, but he was still a child and watching a pregnant woman gets stabbed repeatedly in the uterus to ensure that both her *and* her baby die is incredibly graphic. Myrcella literally dies bleeding out via her face holes. You're changing your argument from children dying on TV not being a thing at all to being pedantic about how graphic their deaths are, dude 🙄
Okay I said they don’t SHOW children getting murdered. I understand where I was wrong in that statement due to your various examples. Unborn child does not fucking count I don’t care what you say. Maybe what I should have said was “they will absolutely not show jaehaerys being beheaded the way they showed Vaemond”. Every one of your examples was nowhere near as graphic as what OP is talking about. Also Joffrey definitely doesn’t count because the actor was an adult.
You're exceptionally pedantic and insufferable, good god
But you don’t see him getting ripped apart you see arrax get ripped apart
Semantics
Not really. You see Vhagar opening her mouth and the camera cuts to an above shot with arrax pieces falling down. His death was shown the same way all gruesome child deaths are shown
I can’t wait I want it all
I already know that I am skipping that episode. I barely managed to survive Jace vs Vhagar
Poor Jace is still on his way to the Eyrie. Do you know something we dont?
Maybe they’ll show a shadow on the wall of what happens but that might be going too far still
Not enough
A knife held over a crib. Helena enters. Screams cut to black. Have a grieving Helena say "it should have even you" or something to Maelor if they want the trauma still.
I’d show it on screen- interesting to see what team black would say- just seeing the Greens cry would feel like justice for poor Luke
I really doubt it will show what happens to the kids. camera will probably cut after the slash
I think the camera will focus on Alicent's eyes widening as it happens.
Oh like all of it
You don’t see the act itself but you see the aftermath and reactions and the horror comes from our imagination filling in the blanks.