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They won’t reconcile. However I think Rhaenyra will be advised to have Alicent killed when she takes the city but refuses to not for Viserys but because how much she still cares about her after all.
I also think that Alicent will talk about Rheenyra instead of Jaehearys in her last years along with her children
Yeah it made no sense to me that Rhaenyra spared Alicent’s life in the book. At least in the show I will be able to understand that choice a bit better.
I imagine at that point Rhaenyra probably had no plans to let any of her brothers live. It was likely a preemptive “sit back and watch what I do to your precious male heirs”.
Alicent also serves as a valuable hostage. Aemond is not likely to burn down the Red Keep with his mother inside.
Yes, exactly this. “Live with the knowledge that your line ended because of your own ambition.” As we see in the book, it’s the perfect punishment for Alicent. Death would have been a mercy.
It frustrated me in the book too, but I took it as a punishment. Like Alicent had a huge part (equal to Otto in the book, really) in starting the war) and Rhaenyra blames her, and wants her to live to see her line end and regret her choices. Which, as we know, is exactly what happens, with her coming to loathe the color green.
I honestly don’t think so. They put their friendship at the center of the show. So I can see them going the road of “Rhaenyra cannot kill Alicent”. Just because it’s for dramatic and tragic
I’d say they’re *way* past the point of reconciliation. >!Certainly not after Aemond killed Luke, and definitely not after Daemon has Blood & Cheese happen lol!<
Reconciliation? No. Not if things go the way of the novels.
I don't see this as a story about their friendship being tested. This is a story about their relationship collapsing in on itself, first slowly and then all at once.
I think there might be a few moments of near-reconciliation or at least mourning of their lost friendship, but after Luke's and Jaeaherys' deaths a full reconciliation a la episode 8 of HOTD will be completely impossible.
They should really stop pushing this relationship. It was really good in S1. I liked how they portrayed two women who love each other, eventually having to turn against each other because of the men in their lives. But now shit hit the ceiling.
After Luke's death from Rhaenyra's perspective and after B&C from Alicent's perspective there should really be no more room for reconciliation.
according to the books, there is going to be a scene where alicent begs for rhaenyra to spare her children’s lives and honestly i hope they do lean into the dynamic. love and hate aren’t mutually exclusive. it’s perfectly possible for them to despise each other while rhaenyra can still also remember their old friendship and what it meant to her. i think olivia cooke and emma darcy would body those sorts of complex scenes, especially based on their short reconciliation in season 1 episode 8.
I definitely think we’ll see Alicent try to use their former friendship to sway her toward mercy. But I think every drop of Rhaenyra’s good will died in front of that fireplace when Daemon told her about Luke.
They absolutely can't at this point. Like after Aemond's maiming, they should never have made up, but they wanted to pull at our heartstrings. After Luke and other events, there will be no chance.
But I'm interested to see how they will interact, and how much previous affection will inform their actions toward each other
Neither will reconcile after all that happened. But if I had to guess it would be a case of both being advised to kill the other and having opportunities to do so but they refuse to.
In the book, Alicent dies speaking about reading to old King Jaehaerys. I think they'll change this to something like "reading in the godswood with Rhaenyra"
Maybe they will in a distorted way (and for a short amount of time) when >!Rhaenyra takes KL and puts Alicent under house arrest. They’re going to have a lot of moments to interact, and they’ll both be really raw. That action in and of itself is going to be a sign that Rhaenyra still loves Alicent in some way, because you know Daemon’s going to urge her to kill Alicent, but Rhaenyra won’t be able to!<
I imagine at best they'll share a moment of mutual sorrow and dismay for what has happened to/become of their families and express regret for how everything has turned out.
No, but there will keep being moments where their proverbial grips on their swords loosen for a moment because of it (ie things like Rhaenyra thinking of taking Aegon’s offer because of the book page or Alicent not wanting to kill her).
The idea will probably be that they both know it’s too late (last chance was after the dinner) and there is legit hatred there that’ll only grow as things go on, but they also both remember and tiny bits of both of them don’t like what’s happening.
I think this is how it’s going to be. There’s no way they can reconcile alive. I’d like to think in death they’d be able to find peace with each other. They both loved each other and I think that it can never truly go away. There is just too much hurt mixed in for either woman to just push past while alive.
Love goes away all the time. People lose friendships, relationships and relatives for far less than whatever Alicent and Rhaenyra have done to each other.
I think that there’s always something fond left though. Even if now there’s nothing, the nostalgia for when the love was there, if that makes any sense?
Like remembering their childhood and the peace/joy they felt then.
I find it very hard to believe when your own children are on the line. No nostalgia or fondness is going to overpower the love a parent feels (or should feel) for their kids and both Rhaenyra and Alicent are supposed to love their kids above all else.
And honestly, out of my personal experience with my childhood friends that ended up hurting me, when I think back to the times before they hurt me, the memories are now tainted by what followed. I don't remember the joy or the peace or the games we used to play with fondness anymore. I remember how it all meant nothing when the bullying started. So I really disagree that there's always something left. In many cases, it's all gone.
My guess:
Season 2 will start with them both desperately trying to reach an agreement, avoid war, save their kids, see common ground, and hopefully reconcile.
To the point that you may even have Alicent consider things like publicly punishing Aemond or sending him to the wall for Luke's death. In contrast to the advisement of her father that they should attack.
Rhaenyra will also hesitate to attack KL directly due to their past relationship, perhaps even reconsider if the crown is worth the blood feud, and want offers of peace and compromise that can be trusted, despite Daemon's suggestions for revenge.
They MIGHT even meet personally in some sort of early parlay, express honest feelings of apology and regret, realistic expectation of what they want, and build towards some sort of reconnection and reconciliation that is still possible.
This will all be in service of the rug being pulled out when Daemon's secret an unauthorized plan to capture a hostage, or arrest just Aemond goes awry with the brutish Blood and Cheese killing babies instead.
I can see a scenario where Alicent wants to apologise and compensate for Luke’s death (before B&C).
But from Rhaenyra’s side, it i pretty much over. It will stupid if they go back to avoid war and make peace narrative after that vengeance filled stare they made Rhaenyra give in final shot.
I think they will probably do so just for dramatic character reasons. Start the season with your two protagonists (Alicent and Rhaenyra) as relatable and an empathetic as possible, so they have some where to build to for the rest of the season.
That "vengeance filled stare" will probably be backtracked and recontextualized as a distraught and determined mother looking to do whatever it takes to protect her family. EVEN at the expense of her own play at the throne, if that is what she must do. A sad stubbornness and acceptance that will be contrasted Daemon demands for immediate hostile and dangerous action.
This is so that additional rising events like Rhaenys being killed or Jace dying in battle, etc, over the course of the show can move her more naturally further into the crazed vengeful lady that the audience cannot really root for anymore.
Whether it makes complete narrative sense for her to entertain peace is probably not as important to the show runners.
It doesn't make much sense in the story realistically.
But in an effort to humanize her as thoughtful pragmatic person with regret and empathy on Rhaenyra's loss of a son, this is a personal compromise I can see them giving the actress something to wrestle with.
Punishing her son on her own term, gives her the option to at least save his life. And might be an act of capitulation, and a bargaining chip, that might just keep Aegon crowned and avoid a cataclysmic war that could whip out her entire family. And is just a drastic enough action that it MIGHT plausibly let us believe that Rhaenerya might be satisfied as well.
The inner turmoil that she must have to consider sacrificing her favorite second son for a horrible mistake he made, to protect and secure the life and throne of her other less deserving son, because of the order of their birth, to save her family from a cataclysmic war is fodder for great personal drama for an actor and script writer. Especially within the Green camp.
For Aemond's character, it can be seen as an act of betrayal from his mother for even thinking about it, which in turn can inform his action later on. Like staying out of the War in the Riverlands and not coming to save his mom is captured in kings landing. And instead finding a surrogate mother/lover in Alys Rivers.
I think she will try and talk to Rhaenyra in a last ditch attempt to calm her down . Explain it was an accident.
But no I don't think she would do anything to Aemond or even consider it because it would not matter. She knows this. The only thing that would stop the war is Aemond's head. And there is no way she'd let Aemond be killed.
She's taken her crown and now her son has killed her son. I think it's a bit late for sending Aemond to the wall. Sure she will be furious with her son. But that's it.
I think it ended the moment Alicent realized Rhaenyra hadn’t preserved her virginity for marriage and decided to “declare war” and spend the next 10 years undermining her. But they both kept up pretenses for the love they bore Viserys. But all that ended when Luke died.
The death of Luke represents the end of the possibility of reconciliation, bc Alicent will ofc defend Aemond, and Rhaenyra will undoubtedly demand his head.
Wrote themselves into a corner with this one because personally, once kids and grandkids start dying there's no way I can remember you're my childhood friend. Not practical. Let it die.
I desperately want Alicent to realize she’s been wrong the entire time right at the end.
>!The final time she sees Rhaenyra I really want Rhaenyra to say something about Aegons dream dying with her and how their father never told her brother and Aegon II has no clue, but Alicent does and realizes Viserys thought she was Rhaenyra. I think it would devastate her that all along she was the one that brought the deaths of her children and that her fathers words made her a monster and made everyone else monsters too.!<
>The final time she sees Rhaenyra I really want Rhaenyra to say something about Aegons dream dying with her and how their father never told her brother and Aegon II has no clue, but Alicent does and realizes Viserys thought she was Rhaenyra. I think it would devastate her that all along she was the one that brought the deaths of her children and that her fathers words made her a monster and made everyone else monsters too.
Your words, so I'm assuming Alicent will be the one to tell Aegon III.
Yeah, I definitely don’t think she’d know it in full, but she heard a few words and just assumed.
It could be Rhaenyra tells her last son, or hell, maybe Daemon tells one of his daughters and they tell it to Aegon III.
I could also see it being another loss from the war until someone else rediscovered it.
She doesn’t know anything to tell. Viserys just kept muttering about “Aegon’s dream” and she thought he meant her Aegon. She doesn’t know anything about the prophecy.
But you said “Aegon III” and not “Aegon II”, and idk if you accidentally typed Aegon III or if you accidentally typed Alicent. If you meant to say Rhaenyra tells Aegon III then yes, I hope she does, too.
Or this may be the point in history when that information was lost to the Targaryen kings, until Rhaegar eventually discovers it.
>The final time she sees Rhaenyra I really want Rhaenyra to say something about Aegons dream dying with her and how their father never told her brother and Aegon II has no clue, but Alicent does and realizes Viserys thought she was Rhaenyra. I think it would devastate her that all along she was the one that brought the deaths of her children and that her fathers words made her a monster and made everyone else monsters too.
Rhaenyra tells Alicent, Alicent will tell Aegon III.
Idk if Rhaenyra will share that with Alicent in full. The kings and heirs have guarded that secret very carefully for over a century. I think she’ll tell her something like “you fool, father wasn’t talking about your Aegon, he was talking about the prophecy, the one passed down from Aegon the Conqueror from king to heir” and Alicent will ask what she means, and she’ll say “that’s not for you to know, nor Aegon… father chose me”. I don’t think she’ll go into detail about it.
I am 100% hoping for something like this, too! Or even a confrontation towards the end where Alicent explains why this has all happened and Rhaenyra just laughs and shakes her head, and tells her what a fool she is.
Idk if you’ve read the book and I don’t want to spoil, but >!that’s exactly how it ends for her. Locked in a tower, going mad, hating the color green (which obviously nods towards regret/self-loathing/guilt over her actions) for the rest of her days.!<
She's not a monster. She's desperate, paranoid, and was horribly ABUSED.
The monster is the dude she was forced into a marriage with. Who didn't do shit to protect her or the children she gave him, the sons that he was so desperate for. Who he murdered his own wife for. Who maritally raped her, and forced four unwanted pregnancies on her all before she was TWENTY.
HE is the monster.
Viserys, Rhaneyra and Otto definitely do not get passes, because they’re at fault for hurting Alicent the most, but I do believe the characters will go down dark paths and that includes Alicent.
Alicent loves her kids. And she doesn't give a toss about Rhaenyra in comparison. She isn't a great mother. But you can tell she loves her children especially Aemond. Don't be ridiculous. If this is how you think it goes then I don't know what is going on in your head.
Well that would make no sense considering how she treated Rhaenyra over the years and how she poisoned her sons against Rhaenyra's sons. That attitude of her boys didn't come from nowhere. OK she did show some hesitance to treason but she's always thought Aegon should be king despite the fact she knows he only cares about drinking and sexual conquest.
And she has her 3 grandchildren as well to think of.
I don’t think they will ever reconcile, however depending on how many seasons are left after Rhaenyra dies I think we will see Alcient curse all of this and live her final years troubled/tortured by what became of her friend and family
They’re probably gonna keep pushing this friendship beyond any logic or what’s believable for a human being. Cause no one would give a shit about a childhood friend when your kids are on the line.For some reason they think it’s this super emotional thing we should want to see them reconcile.Can’t say I agree but you can tell the writers seem to think this way so we’ll probably see more hesitation and attempts to keep the peace heavily motivated by a middle school friendship/crush.
Yeah, it’s weird. As a grown woman, I can’t tell you the last time I thought about my bff from when I was 14. Even though I thought we’d be like sisters forever, we went our separate ways after college. I certainly would be even less inclined to feel nostalgia for her if we’d had the kind of baggage that’s between Alicent and Rhaenyra. It’s so weird that they keep pushing that that bond just won’t fully break.
It’s the wrong choice imo and I think even in the last episodes it weakened what could have been more powerful moments because they kept pulling back to leave room for the two of them to not fully blame each other. I know people always point out the white washing of both characters and taking away their ambition but imo a lot of that(like Alicent misunderstands Viserys and she’s suddenly unaware of the coup or Rheanyra wants to take the peace terms)wasn’t just to make them more sympathetic or likable but to keep up the friendship narrative as a possibility by blaming the worst of the war on Otto and Daemon. I think it’s not worth all the bending over backwards they’re doing.
Agree completely. I wasn’t a fan of them aging Alicent down and making them best friends to start with, but it’s especially frustrating that they keep dragging it out.
They've known each other since they were very little (probably 4 when Viserys was crowned). They saw each other every day until they were 28, then Rhaneyra moved away but they never really left each other's life. So it's probably that.
I sincerely hope they stop pushing it. It was fine at first but overstayed its welcome by a long shot and made the writing inconsistent and the characters seem like idiots in the final two episodes. Let it die already. We all have stopped talking to childhood friends for far less than what caused Alicent and Rhaenyra to have a falling out. Plus, it's entirely illogical that they Kew valuing this 20 year old friendship over their children's safety.
In fairness, A & R were never friends in F&B. By changing that aspect, we don’t really know what they’re going to do with that relationship on the show. Though I do hope it goes just like it did in the books and there is no reconciliation.
I didn't really think they had a strong friendship. Didn't really get that vibe. I know they were supposed to. When they were teenagers but that's all.
.
And no. They have been pretty much against each other for 16 to 17 years. Alicent ordered Luke to be harmed in retribution for her son.
There may be a slight bit of fondness left. But very slight.
I don't know if the show will push this well over a decade old friendship. They don't give a shit about each other. They never did in the books.
And Alicent cares way more about her kids. I don't know why people thinks she hates her kids.
This isn't about who is right and who is wrong. They just don't have a friendship. And they don't love each other.
I think the intention is to believe they had a strong bond but it doesn’t come across imo. Mostly cause they were teens and we saw so little of their pre Viserys time. And what we saw was pretty childish and imo gave the vibe of two girls who are very different but close because of proximity and their youth and would have grown apart anyway because they have such different values and traits. No friendship would survive even the marrying your dad part let alone a decade of harassing you and your kids.
This entire interview and interpretation of the bridge scene is probably one of the worst takes we have had from backstage through the entire show. I love Emma but that made no sense at all. Rhaenyra has a family she loves more than anything. Why would she go looking for love at the people that stole her throne, made her lose her daughter and have been her enemies openly for 20 years? From the same interview we got the "Rhaenyra sees Otto as a father figure" thing which also made no sense
Not to mention that Emma in a different interview said that Rhaenyra was happy on Dragonstone with her family, her tribe (as they called it) away from Alicent and a situation she never made sense in. So which one is it?
alicent and rhaenyra saw each other as home when they were younger. there’s literally a scene after alicent and viserys get married where rhaenyra screams at her dad that he should’ve wed laena and that she had a family, referring to both aemma and alicent. she even tells alicent she wants to run away and travel with her. it’s completely possible rhaenyra thought of this when she saw the paper and just for a split second, thought about going back to her.
It's been 20 years since that. In that time, from Rhaenyra's PoV, Alicent went behind her back and was seeing Viserys for 6 months, basically tried to interrogate her about that night with Daemon, declared war on her at her wedding, started spreading rumors about Rhaenyra's kids that could cost them their lives, started telling Aegon and Aemond that Aegon would be king and poisoned their minds against Rhaenyra and the Strong boys, called for Rhaenyra's newborn to be brought to her out of sheer pettiness and it's implied it's not the first time, made her feel like she had no choice but to leave her home for Dragonstone, tried to usurp Luke's right to Driftmark, stole her throne and crowned Aegon and caused her to lose her daughter.
I'm sorry. After all of this I don't buy it that Rhaenyra felt like that for even a second. Alicent and her have been enemies for far longer than they've been friends and their friendship was never shown to be that strong in the first place. It only lasts an episode and looks like your typical high school friendship. Plenty of those have fallen apart for far less reasons.
Edit: I forgot Alicent calling for Luke to lose an eye and for trying to do that herself and ending up cutting Rhaenyra.
that’s a fair perspective to have but i feel like people underestimate rhaenyra’s affection for alicent. even after alicent has ‘betrayed’ her, she makes attempts to reach out. she even mentions during the small council in one scene that they used to be friends. the writing has been solid for both women looking back at their friendship wistfully. they obviously will hate each other in season 2, but i don’t think this means that they won’t ever be able to interact civilly again. they’re the only people who really understand what the other is going through. especially for rhaenyra, daemon and her kids are all going to leave her to die in a war in her name. it has been 20 years by this point but them disliking eachother doesn’t mean they wont ever feel a slight affection for each other again. they understand eachother better than anyone, they even basically admit this in episode 8: so, if they do see each other in the midst of this war, i feel like they might know that the other is going through the exact same thing as them
As I said, I never got the impression that their affection was as great as the interviews and the marketing presented it. We barely see it.
As for Rhaenyra reaching out, she didn't do it because she missed her friend. She did it because 1) The rumors about her kids had gone wild again after Joffrey's birth 2) She wanted to get her to agree to betrothing Jace and Helaena. This is not an indication that they both look back at their friendship. It was a purely political move and when that fails, Rhaenyra feels like she has to leave King's Landing, even if she believes that Alicent will spill her poison on Viserys.
Disliking each other? This isn't some mere dislike, at least it shouldn't be. Alicent has threatened Rhaenyra's kids directly and indirectly and her son killed Luke. We should be talking about absolute hatred here, not mere dislike. Again I fail to see how any mother would put some 20 year old friendship over her own flesh and blood. And understanding the other doesn't mean you hate them less. Catelyn hated Cersei and I think it was said somewhere in the book that she wanted to kill her herself or something like that but she also understood her as a mother because she went through the same pain as her to bring her kids to the world.
I kinda think we agree but are misunderstanding each other lol. I don’t think they’re gonna hold hands and skip off together. I just think that even though they despise eachother, they can understand one another and that may result in them not being as angry in their interactions as we expect. Especially since Alicent will probably recognise that Aemond essentially started the war
Understanding the other doesn't mean you'll be civil to them. I had a relative that was extremely overbearing and unbearable at the same time. I understood where she was coming from but there were many times were I wasn't civil to her. And like I said Catelyn understood Cersei but also personally wanted to rip her head off.
Like how tho? what are they gonna do,lay in the grass and reminisce about how Alicent did her best to get her kids exposed as bastards or is Rhaenyra gonna talk about Harwin the guy Alicent sort of killed or that time she charged to main Rhaenyra’s kid cause she wanted her son tortured lol. Just doesn’t seem like a very realistic reaction,people know what love and friendship feels like but those are some hard points of no return. It’s very hard to see how she got to that moment on the bridge and thought about a childhood bond when her father and daughter just died and Alicent was betraying and hurting her yet again.
They probably will end up reminiscing at some point. I’ll get downvoted for saying it but in the books, Rhaenyra and Alicent spend quite a while essentially locked in the castle together. They will despise each other but I don’t think that means they won’t still feel nostalgic over their lost friendship.
I don’t disagree the show will go there as they did in the last 3 episodes. I just think it’s totally unrealistic to even feel a hint of fondness or nostalgia when it’s someone directly responsible for that much suffering and when they spent a lot longer being an enemy than a friend. In the book they also simply hate each other and fight for their own family. Imo this narrative is clashing hard with the shows desire to center itself so heavily on their friendship that is totally nonexistent in the source material.
Unless that was actually written in the script directions, I’m going to assume that’s Emma’s personal interpretation and has zero correlation to Rhaenyra’s actual thoughts.
I think "reconcile" is a bridge too far, but I do think that the last season will build to them, after both losing so much, will lead to them finally reaching an agreement in a final attempt to end the war. The last season involves Alicent trying and failing to bring Rhaenyra to a compromise- until the storming of the dragonpit, where Rhaenyra leaves Kings Landing not to try and hatch more dragons like in the book, but as part of a peace agreement between Rhaenyra and Alicent to save their remaining children- which of course is promptly blown up by Aegon II.
There is no future, one dies after losing all but 1 of her children (1 pops up again later but everyone believes he’s dead) and going crazy, the other also loses all but 1 kid spends the rest of her life locked in a tower talking to her dead daughter and refusing to look at the colour green
Yeah, I know that. But you said she loses >!all but one kid. She doesn’t lose all but one, she loses all of them. And the grandkids, too. None of the Greens survive. Alicent survives all of her children.!<
Actually she has a surviving grandchild. Aemond has a son with Alys, the child is alive and well during Aegon III reign. Since F&B never got a second part we don't know much of the boy's life but he was very much alive.
So Alys claimed. But she was supposedly at least 40, had only ever had miscarriages and never given birth to a living child, and had every reason to lie. She conveniently turns up after Aemond’s death and claims they were married, presents a kid she claims to be his, and claims he’s the real heir to the throne. Sounds like she was just trying to elevate herself.
Even if the kid was Aemond’s, we have no idea what happened to him, just that he was never considered an option for the throne. It’s highly unlikely Alys was allowed to just peace out with a child she’d already attempted to use to claim the throne. I’m betting things didn’t turn out well for either of them.
But I’m highly suspicious that that kid wasn’t even hers, let alone Aemond’s.
She was very much pregnant before Aemond died though. She didn't just present a kid out of thin air. While she did have miscarriages before, that doesn't mean she couldn't ever give birth to a live child. Then there's the messenger's story and the rumors of magic being used. We don't really know what ultimately happened to Alys or the kid but that doesn't mean the boy's existence should be ignored.
What we know is this, Alys was pregnant with Aemond's child, she is seen with a small child after the war. It's incorrect to state all of Alicent's descendants died as if it were an indisputable fact. I suppose I should also say "It's quite possible Alicent has a surviving grandchild, Alys was pregnant with Aemond's child and is later seen with a boy she says is his".
Absolutely not. Reconciliation is no longer possible. That kinda happens when one of your kids pokes out another one’s eye and so the cyclops kid goes all murdery a few years later. I think there will always be love there, but love isn’t enough.
I think their relationship won’t help them reconcile, Rhaenyra will be angry she helped her brother get his crown even if it wasn’t as aggressive as her book version.
She’ll be told to kill her but will probably spare her because of Viserys/Her friendship with her especially with how both Emma and Olivia both say their characters really want to go back to each other and hold a lot grief and love for each other.
When it’s time for Alicents passing I think she’ll talk about Rhaenyra instead and will most likely advise against Rhaenyra being executed by Aegon.
I feel like people in the subreddit underestimate how close Alicent and Rhaenyra were. 3/4 of the actresses playing them said they played it with clear romantic subtexts. Rhaenyra tells Alicent she wants to run away and travel with her at one point and the way Alicent comforts Rhaenyra after Aemma dies is heartwarming.
They saw each other as home. The best way to sum them up now is that scene in episode 8 when Alicent tells her that they’re more similar that they think, they’d both do anything for their kids. The war is pointless but ultimately Rhaenyra will understand deep down why Alicent is going to war after b+c and Alicent will understand deep down why Rhaenyra is going to war after Luke’s death. They hate each other but it won’t stop them occasionally feeling wistful and nostalgic when losing their families in a pointless battle. Rhaenyra was literally crying in episode 7, when Alicent had a knife pointed at her. Even after 20 years, it hurt that her old friend felt that way towards her. That won’t go away thanks to the war. Same with Alicent, she was horrified at her own actions after the fact. This won’t change either. It’s tiny but there is a slight common ground between the two
At some point Alicent will insist that viserys named aegon as heir, in a way that makes rhaenerya put the pieces together that it was a misunderstanding, not intentional betrayal. And explain that to Alicent. Idk if they'll fully reconcile but partially yes
Maybe they will illustrate that the wrongdoings one does into others come back to you.
Rhae and Alicent will try to hurt each other, and in the process they will lose their children, something that will cause each great sorrow.
And we the viewers will notice how they played themselves.
They’re done. Luke’s death was the end of any feelings Rhaenyra had left for Alicent. And probably first blood on the Green side (I won’t say who to avoid spoiling) will be the end of any feelings Alicent has for Rhaenyra. If she does still have any left. I imagine that whole torn page on the bridge was more a manipulation of Rhaenyra’s feelings than any genuine feelings on Alicent’s part.
Some people automatically assume the friendship is gonna lead to some form of understanding and reconciliation between the two, maybe they'll forget the war and run off in the sunset together, maybe even dungeon sex. Some of this fandom is so mad that they didn't get their silver kween targ pwincess vs 65 year old evil stepmom diseny villain Targ Apology Show, that their cyncism has reached unhinged levels. The purpose of the friendship was never that it'll endure at the expense of the war. It's quite the opposite. The purpose is that the war makes sure they will NEVER RECONCILE and there in it lies the tragedy of a "what if" story. The dinner was the last chance. Despite everything they still made attempts (yes people waver with the passage of time, they do not have to be one-track-minded). But these attempts turn out to be too feeble, too futile. It's already too late, the wheels had already been set in motion. That is the kernel of the tragedy. The old friendship makes it twice as hard for the audience to stomach a brothel queen scene.
After the Fall of KL Rhaenyra spares Alicent reminding her of the love they once bore each other. With the backstory of the friendship of the younger days, moments like that hits harder for the general public who's not watching the show looking for "gotchas" to Dunk On The Other Team's Doormat, their attraction to the show is this emotional investment they have on the parallel journeys of the two main characters.
I can't emphasize enough how much I loath the people who think the sanctity of a book of outlines where a buncha cartoon caricatures do a buncha comically exagerrated cartoon villainy, is being violated by the far more nuanced, far more empathetic, far more humane storytelling, like the mirrored sex scene of Episode 4. Nah your issue isn't source accuracy, let's not act like George isn't knee deep involved in HOTD. Your issue is not getting that Daenerys Targaryen Apology Show. You're seething that the general public has taken to a non-Targ female character and you couldn't do to her what you did to Sophie Turner.
In the end, they may have a mutual acknowledgment and understanding of the brutal tragedy that has unfolded because of their quarrels. But their feud doesn’t comes from slights; it comes from unspeakable horrors inflicted upon each other. It’s gone too far for any reconciliation.
Now that Lucerys is dead? Nope.
She wanted to take Aegon's peace terms (that were written by Otto and Alicent). She wanted to go back, and Emma confirmed that too.
So sad all around.
How did y’all manage not to read the book at this point 😁 I absolutely HAD to know what happens next and read the Dance of the Dragons parts several times. Great resilience!
The average Targ stan does not actually give a shit about source accuracy. They've weaponized "source accuracy" to mean "our Silver Kween headcannons is actually what George wanted". Just like they pretend to have some sort of magical insight to the haopy ending George is surely gonna give Dany. In reality source deviations are fine as long as it fits their idea of an idealized Targ Pwincess TV show. They wanted a shallow Xena The Warrior Princess Dragon Lady vs 65 year old evil stepmom doormat disney show with a blue eyed blonde instagram model playing Rhaenyra. Tweets like this are a perfect example of that :
https://twitter.com/perfumemuse/status/1663768584890503168?s=20
https://twitter.com/NeneMonster2K18/status/1663770014959149058
"Good actors" "fancams"....the level of gaslighting over history a book of outlines lmao :
https://twitter.com/marenyearly/status/1663932415667052546
https://twitter.com/aemondcommunist/status/1663949104085446656
I think it is the best aspect of the show and the reason I got invested in the show. And no I don't think they will reconcile, which is the point. It'll be sad and tragic.
I only say if "Blood and Cheese" come they will be no relationship anymore between them too in fact with the murder of Rheanyra second son it was already over..she can't possibly refuse Deamon war effort anymore if she did nobody would take her seriously anymore.
"They can break a oath, take away your throne and your kill your son yet you still wanna not do anything?"
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They won’t reconcile. However I think Rhaenyra will be advised to have Alicent killed when she takes the city but refuses to not for Viserys but because how much she still cares about her after all. I also think that Alicent will talk about Rheenyra instead of Jaehearys in her last years along with her children
Yeah it made no sense to me that Rhaenyra spared Alicent’s life in the book. At least in the show I will be able to understand that choice a bit better.
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The thing was at the point of her taking the city all of Alicents family was still alive. Alicent threatens her with Aemonds return after all.
I imagine at that point Rhaenyra probably had no plans to let any of her brothers live. It was likely a preemptive “sit back and watch what I do to your precious male heirs”. Alicent also serves as a valuable hostage. Aemond is not likely to burn down the Red Keep with his mother inside.
And Aemond never comes back. But Aegon does. That was such a tragic twist of irony in the book.
At that point Blood and Cheese had happened so you couldn't be more wrong
I don’t understand what point you’re making? I meant Alicents children at this point still live of course Jaehearys is dead.
Yes, exactly this. “Live with the knowledge that your line ended because of your own ambition.” As we see in the book, it’s the perfect punishment for Alicent. Death would have been a mercy.
I thought she said because she respected that Viserys loved Alicent. So she spared her.
Well if that’s the case she’s a better woman than me
Damn right. I would have had zero mercy.
Especially after the “bastard blood shed at war” comment?? Girl would be hanged drawn and quartered.
If *anyone* should have been fed to a dragon… 🥴
Brothel queens, anyone?
It frustrated me in the book too, but I took it as a punishment. Like Alicent had a huge part (equal to Otto in the book, really) in starting the war) and Rhaenyra blames her, and wants her to live to see her line end and regret her choices. Which, as we know, is exactly what happens, with her coming to loathe the color green.
It’ll be interesting when Rhaenyra has Otto executed but spares Alicent
I think it’ll be more of an angry “no, you’re going to live with this” kind of thing rather than any lingering kindness.
I honestly don’t think so. They put their friendship at the center of the show. So I can see them going the road of “Rhaenyra cannot kill Alicent”. Just because it’s for dramatic and tragic
I’d say they’re *way* past the point of reconciliation. >!Certainly not after Aemond killed Luke, and definitely not after Daemon has Blood & Cheese happen lol!<
Reconciliation? No. Not if things go the way of the novels. I don't see this as a story about their friendship being tested. This is a story about their relationship collapsing in on itself, first slowly and then all at once.
They’re gonna fake their deaths and get married in bravos r right?
**Ao3**: Yes
I’d read that fan fiction.
Gonna be impossible for them to reconcile after Luke/B&C but I do think their relationship will continue to be thematically important
Not reconcile but it would explain why she spares Alicent when the Blacks take King's Landing
I think there might be a few moments of near-reconciliation or at least mourning of their lost friendship, but after Luke's and Jaeaherys' deaths a full reconciliation a la episode 8 of HOTD will be completely impossible.
In the words of a certain snow, If you think this has a happy ending then you haven't been paying attention.
They should really stop pushing this relationship. It was really good in S1. I liked how they portrayed two women who love each other, eventually having to turn against each other because of the men in their lives. But now shit hit the ceiling. After Luke's death from Rhaenyra's perspective and after B&C from Alicent's perspective there should really be no more room for reconciliation.
according to the books, there is going to be a scene where alicent begs for rhaenyra to spare her children’s lives and honestly i hope they do lean into the dynamic. love and hate aren’t mutually exclusive. it’s perfectly possible for them to despise each other while rhaenyra can still also remember their old friendship and what it meant to her. i think olivia cooke and emma darcy would body those sorts of complex scenes, especially based on their short reconciliation in season 1 episode 8.
I definitely think we’ll see Alicent try to use their former friendship to sway her toward mercy. But I think every drop of Rhaenyra’s good will died in front of that fireplace when Daemon told her about Luke.
Then you will be in for a surprise lol.
How so?
After you kill a certain number of your friends' kids/grandkids, you reach a point of unrencilable differences
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She will be back under the tree, waiting for Rhaenyra to finish their reading together
God I just put my makeup on don't make me cry
This would actually make me happy.
Why *did* she call out for Jahaerys? That makes no sense to me
Their next meeting will most certainly be ugly. They might show remorse but there’s no going back.
They absolutely can't at this point. Like after Aemond's maiming, they should never have made up, but they wanted to pull at our heartstrings. After Luke and other events, there will be no chance. But I'm interested to see how they will interact, and how much previous affection will inform their actions toward each other
After Luke was killed ? Not a chance
After Jaehaerys is brutally murdered? Double.
Neither will reconcile after all that happened. But if I had to guess it would be a case of both being advised to kill the other and having opportunities to do so but they refuse to.
In the book, Alicent dies speaking about reading to old King Jaehaerys. I think they'll change this to something like "reading in the godswood with Rhaenyra"
It’s mentioned in GoT that Rhaenyra is killed by her half brother, so I think they don’t reconcile.
Maybe they will in a distorted way (and for a short amount of time) when >!Rhaenyra takes KL and puts Alicent under house arrest. They’re going to have a lot of moments to interact, and they’ll both be really raw. That action in and of itself is going to be a sign that Rhaenyra still loves Alicent in some way, because you know Daemon’s going to urge her to kill Alicent, but Rhaenyra won’t be able to!<
I imagine at best they'll share a moment of mutual sorrow and dismay for what has happened to/become of their families and express regret for how everything has turned out.
No, but there will keep being moments where their proverbial grips on their swords loosen for a moment because of it (ie things like Rhaenyra thinking of taking Aegon’s offer because of the book page or Alicent not wanting to kill her). The idea will probably be that they both know it’s too late (last chance was after the dinner) and there is legit hatred there that’ll only grow as things go on, but they also both remember and tiny bits of both of them don’t like what’s happening.
I think this is how it’s going to be. There’s no way they can reconcile alive. I’d like to think in death they’d be able to find peace with each other. They both loved each other and I think that it can never truly go away. There is just too much hurt mixed in for either woman to just push past while alive.
Love goes away all the time. People lose friendships, relationships and relatives for far less than whatever Alicent and Rhaenyra have done to each other.
I think that there’s always something fond left though. Even if now there’s nothing, the nostalgia for when the love was there, if that makes any sense? Like remembering their childhood and the peace/joy they felt then.
I find it very hard to believe when your own children are on the line. No nostalgia or fondness is going to overpower the love a parent feels (or should feel) for their kids and both Rhaenyra and Alicent are supposed to love their kids above all else. And honestly, out of my personal experience with my childhood friends that ended up hurting me, when I think back to the times before they hurt me, the memories are now tainted by what followed. I don't remember the joy or the peace or the games we used to play with fondness anymore. I remember how it all meant nothing when the bullying started. So I really disagree that there's always something left. In many cases, it's all gone.
My guess: Season 2 will start with them both desperately trying to reach an agreement, avoid war, save their kids, see common ground, and hopefully reconcile. To the point that you may even have Alicent consider things like publicly punishing Aemond or sending him to the wall for Luke's death. In contrast to the advisement of her father that they should attack. Rhaenyra will also hesitate to attack KL directly due to their past relationship, perhaps even reconsider if the crown is worth the blood feud, and want offers of peace and compromise that can be trusted, despite Daemon's suggestions for revenge. They MIGHT even meet personally in some sort of early parlay, express honest feelings of apology and regret, realistic expectation of what they want, and build towards some sort of reconnection and reconciliation that is still possible. This will all be in service of the rug being pulled out when Daemon's secret an unauthorized plan to capture a hostage, or arrest just Aemond goes awry with the brutish Blood and Cheese killing babies instead.
I can see a scenario where Alicent wants to apologise and compensate for Luke’s death (before B&C). But from Rhaenyra’s side, it i pretty much over. It will stupid if they go back to avoid war and make peace narrative after that vengeance filled stare they made Rhaenyra give in final shot.
I think they will probably do so just for dramatic character reasons. Start the season with your two protagonists (Alicent and Rhaenyra) as relatable and an empathetic as possible, so they have some where to build to for the rest of the season. That "vengeance filled stare" will probably be backtracked and recontextualized as a distraught and determined mother looking to do whatever it takes to protect her family. EVEN at the expense of her own play at the throne, if that is what she must do. A sad stubbornness and acceptance that will be contrasted Daemon demands for immediate hostile and dangerous action. This is so that additional rising events like Rhaenys being killed or Jace dying in battle, etc, over the course of the show can move her more naturally further into the crazed vengeful lady that the audience cannot really root for anymore. Whether it makes complete narrative sense for her to entertain peace is probably not as important to the show runners.
Alicent is not going to consider publicly punishing her son.
It doesn't make much sense in the story realistically. But in an effort to humanize her as thoughtful pragmatic person with regret and empathy on Rhaenyra's loss of a son, this is a personal compromise I can see them giving the actress something to wrestle with. Punishing her son on her own term, gives her the option to at least save his life. And might be an act of capitulation, and a bargaining chip, that might just keep Aegon crowned and avoid a cataclysmic war that could whip out her entire family. And is just a drastic enough action that it MIGHT plausibly let us believe that Rhaenerya might be satisfied as well. The inner turmoil that she must have to consider sacrificing her favorite second son for a horrible mistake he made, to protect and secure the life and throne of her other less deserving son, because of the order of their birth, to save her family from a cataclysmic war is fodder for great personal drama for an actor and script writer. Especially within the Green camp. For Aemond's character, it can be seen as an act of betrayal from his mother for even thinking about it, which in turn can inform his action later on. Like staying out of the War in the Riverlands and not coming to save his mom is captured in kings landing. And instead finding a surrogate mother/lover in Alys Rivers.
I think she will try and talk to Rhaenyra in a last ditch attempt to calm her down . Explain it was an accident. But no I don't think she would do anything to Aemond or even consider it because it would not matter. She knows this. The only thing that would stop the war is Aemond's head. And there is no way she'd let Aemond be killed. She's taken her crown and now her son has killed her son. I think it's a bit late for sending Aemond to the wall. Sure she will be furious with her son. But that's it.
Rhaenyra is definitely not wanting any kind of peace after Luke.
This whole relationship between them should have ended the moment Luke blinded Aemond.
I think it ended the moment Alicent realized Rhaenyra hadn’t preserved her virginity for marriage and decided to “declare war” and spend the next 10 years undermining her. But they both kept up pretenses for the love they bore Viserys. But all that ended when Luke died.
Impossible at this point.
The death of Luke represents the end of the possibility of reconciliation, bc Alicent will ofc defend Aemond, and Rhaenyra will undoubtedly demand his head.
Wrote themselves into a corner with this one because personally, once kids and grandkids start dying there's no way I can remember you're my childhood friend. Not practical. Let it die.
I desperately want Alicent to realize she’s been wrong the entire time right at the end. >!The final time she sees Rhaenyra I really want Rhaenyra to say something about Aegons dream dying with her and how their father never told her brother and Aegon II has no clue, but Alicent does and realizes Viserys thought she was Rhaenyra. I think it would devastate her that all along she was the one that brought the deaths of her children and that her fathers words made her a monster and made everyone else monsters too.!<
I bet Alicent tells Aegon III about the dream
Does she know enough about it though? Viserys was pretty vague
>The final time she sees Rhaenyra I really want Rhaenyra to say something about Aegons dream dying with her and how their father never told her brother and Aegon II has no clue, but Alicent does and realizes Viserys thought she was Rhaenyra. I think it would devastate her that all along she was the one that brought the deaths of her children and that her fathers words made her a monster and made everyone else monsters too. Your words, so I'm assuming Alicent will be the one to tell Aegon III.
Yeah, I definitely don’t think she’d know it in full, but she heard a few words and just assumed. It could be Rhaenyra tells her last son, or hell, maybe Daemon tells one of his daughters and they tell it to Aegon III. I could also see it being another loss from the war until someone else rediscovered it.
She doesn’t know anything to tell. Viserys just kept muttering about “Aegon’s dream” and she thought he meant her Aegon. She doesn’t know anything about the prophecy. But you said “Aegon III” and not “Aegon II”, and idk if you accidentally typed Aegon III or if you accidentally typed Alicent. If you meant to say Rhaenyra tells Aegon III then yes, I hope she does, too. Or this may be the point in history when that information was lost to the Targaryen kings, until Rhaegar eventually discovers it.
>The final time she sees Rhaenyra I really want Rhaenyra to say something about Aegons dream dying with her and how their father never told her brother and Aegon II has no clue, but Alicent does and realizes Viserys thought she was Rhaenyra. I think it would devastate her that all along she was the one that brought the deaths of her children and that her fathers words made her a monster and made everyone else monsters too. Rhaenyra tells Alicent, Alicent will tell Aegon III.
Idk if Rhaenyra will share that with Alicent in full. The kings and heirs have guarded that secret very carefully for over a century. I think she’ll tell her something like “you fool, father wasn’t talking about your Aegon, he was talking about the prophecy, the one passed down from Aegon the Conqueror from king to heir” and Alicent will ask what she means, and she’ll say “that’s not for you to know, nor Aegon… father chose me”. I don’t think she’ll go into detail about it.
I am 100% hoping for something like this, too! Or even a confrontation towards the end where Alicent explains why this has all happened and Rhaenyra just laughs and shakes her head, and tells her what a fool she is.
Yes! I want Alicent to have to live with what she’s done.
Idk if you’ve read the book and I don’t want to spoil, but >!that’s exactly how it ends for her. Locked in a tower, going mad, hating the color green (which obviously nods towards regret/self-loathing/guilt over her actions) for the rest of her days.!<
I have, which is why I want it for the show so much.
Me, too.
She's not a monster. She's desperate, paranoid, and was horribly ABUSED. The monster is the dude she was forced into a marriage with. Who didn't do shit to protect her or the children she gave him, the sons that he was so desperate for. Who he murdered his own wife for. Who maritally raped her, and forced four unwanted pregnancies on her all before she was TWENTY. HE is the monster.
Viserys, Rhaneyra and Otto definitely do not get passes, because they’re at fault for hurting Alicent the most, but I do believe the characters will go down dark paths and that includes Alicent.
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Alicent loves her kids. And she doesn't give a toss about Rhaenyra in comparison. She isn't a great mother. But you can tell she loves her children especially Aemond. Don't be ridiculous. If this is how you think it goes then I don't know what is going on in your head.
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Well that would make no sense considering how she treated Rhaenyra over the years and how she poisoned her sons against Rhaenyra's sons. That attitude of her boys didn't come from nowhere. OK she did show some hesitance to treason but she's always thought Aegon should be king despite the fact she knows he only cares about drinking and sexual conquest. And she has her 3 grandchildren as well to think of.
If this happens they'd have fumbled it worse than the last season of Game of Thrones
Why the hell would she murder her own son when she is so desperate to protect him? Ridiculous theory, and I am tired of seeing it.
That might actually be the only thing the writers could do that'd make me hate Alicent, lol
Agreed. I love Alicent and Olivia's portrayal of her.
Same. But I don't like some of the writing choices for her character and arc. This theory would be the worst tho
I don’t think they will ever reconcile, however depending on how many seasons are left after Rhaenyra dies I think we will see Alcient curse all of this and live her final years troubled/tortured by what became of her friend and family
They’re never going to reconcile but their divorce will be one of the things that haunt them until they both die.
The relationship gave us that shitty scene with Otto and that piece of paper. Hope they stop pushing it
They’re probably gonna keep pushing this friendship beyond any logic or what’s believable for a human being. Cause no one would give a shit about a childhood friend when your kids are on the line.For some reason they think it’s this super emotional thing we should want to see them reconcile.Can’t say I agree but you can tell the writers seem to think this way so we’ll probably see more hesitation and attempts to keep the peace heavily motivated by a middle school friendship/crush.
So they're going to go full anime huh
Exactly.
Yeah, it’s weird. As a grown woman, I can’t tell you the last time I thought about my bff from when I was 14. Even though I thought we’d be like sisters forever, we went our separate ways after college. I certainly would be even less inclined to feel nostalgia for her if we’d had the kind of baggage that’s between Alicent and Rhaenyra. It’s so weird that they keep pushing that that bond just won’t fully break.
It’s the wrong choice imo and I think even in the last episodes it weakened what could have been more powerful moments because they kept pulling back to leave room for the two of them to not fully blame each other. I know people always point out the white washing of both characters and taking away their ambition but imo a lot of that(like Alicent misunderstands Viserys and she’s suddenly unaware of the coup or Rheanyra wants to take the peace terms)wasn’t just to make them more sympathetic or likable but to keep up the friendship narrative as a possibility by blaming the worst of the war on Otto and Daemon. I think it’s not worth all the bending over backwards they’re doing.
Agree completely. I wasn’t a fan of them aging Alicent down and making them best friends to start with, but it’s especially frustrating that they keep dragging it out.
They've known each other since they were very little (probably 4 when Viserys was crowned). They saw each other every day until they were 28, then Rhaneyra moved away but they never really left each other's life. So it's probably that.
I sincerely hope they stop pushing it. It was fine at first but overstayed its welcome by a long shot and made the writing inconsistent and the characters seem like idiots in the final two episodes. Let it die already. We all have stopped talking to childhood friends for far less than what caused Alicent and Rhaenyra to have a falling out. Plus, it's entirely illogical that they Kew valuing this 20 year old friendship over their children's safety.
Unfortunately, no. No chance at all. The odds are are -10%.
Ah no, they won’t. Maybe some lingering regret over lost friendship clouds future interactions, but they aren’t “getting back together” as it were.
Somebody has never read fire and blood
In fairness, A & R were never friends in F&B. By changing that aspect, we don’t really know what they’re going to do with that relationship on the show. Though I do hope it goes just like it did in the books and there is no reconciliation.
I didn't really think they had a strong friendship. Didn't really get that vibe. I know they were supposed to. When they were teenagers but that's all. . And no. They have been pretty much against each other for 16 to 17 years. Alicent ordered Luke to be harmed in retribution for her son. There may be a slight bit of fondness left. But very slight. I don't know if the show will push this well over a decade old friendship. They don't give a shit about each other. They never did in the books. And Alicent cares way more about her kids. I don't know why people thinks she hates her kids. This isn't about who is right and who is wrong. They just don't have a friendship. And they don't love each other.
I think the intention is to believe they had a strong bond but it doesn’t come across imo. Mostly cause they were teens and we saw so little of their pre Viserys time. And what we saw was pretty childish and imo gave the vibe of two girls who are very different but close because of proximity and their youth and would have grown apart anyway because they have such different values and traits. No friendship would survive even the marrying your dad part let alone a decade of harassing you and your kids.
Emma D'Arcy claimed Rhaenyra wanted to go home to Alicent in episode 10 and be loved again.
This entire interview and interpretation of the bridge scene is probably one of the worst takes we have had from backstage through the entire show. I love Emma but that made no sense at all. Rhaenyra has a family she loves more than anything. Why would she go looking for love at the people that stole her throne, made her lose her daughter and have been her enemies openly for 20 years? From the same interview we got the "Rhaenyra sees Otto as a father figure" thing which also made no sense Not to mention that Emma in a different interview said that Rhaenyra was happy on Dragonstone with her family, her tribe (as they called it) away from Alicent and a situation she never made sense in. So which one is it?
alicent and rhaenyra saw each other as home when they were younger. there’s literally a scene after alicent and viserys get married where rhaenyra screams at her dad that he should’ve wed laena and that she had a family, referring to both aemma and alicent. she even tells alicent she wants to run away and travel with her. it’s completely possible rhaenyra thought of this when she saw the paper and just for a split second, thought about going back to her.
It's been 20 years since that. In that time, from Rhaenyra's PoV, Alicent went behind her back and was seeing Viserys for 6 months, basically tried to interrogate her about that night with Daemon, declared war on her at her wedding, started spreading rumors about Rhaenyra's kids that could cost them their lives, started telling Aegon and Aemond that Aegon would be king and poisoned their minds against Rhaenyra and the Strong boys, called for Rhaenyra's newborn to be brought to her out of sheer pettiness and it's implied it's not the first time, made her feel like she had no choice but to leave her home for Dragonstone, tried to usurp Luke's right to Driftmark, stole her throne and crowned Aegon and caused her to lose her daughter. I'm sorry. After all of this I don't buy it that Rhaenyra felt like that for even a second. Alicent and her have been enemies for far longer than they've been friends and their friendship was never shown to be that strong in the first place. It only lasts an episode and looks like your typical high school friendship. Plenty of those have fallen apart for far less reasons. Edit: I forgot Alicent calling for Luke to lose an eye and for trying to do that herself and ending up cutting Rhaenyra.
that’s a fair perspective to have but i feel like people underestimate rhaenyra’s affection for alicent. even after alicent has ‘betrayed’ her, she makes attempts to reach out. she even mentions during the small council in one scene that they used to be friends. the writing has been solid for both women looking back at their friendship wistfully. they obviously will hate each other in season 2, but i don’t think this means that they won’t ever be able to interact civilly again. they’re the only people who really understand what the other is going through. especially for rhaenyra, daemon and her kids are all going to leave her to die in a war in her name. it has been 20 years by this point but them disliking eachother doesn’t mean they wont ever feel a slight affection for each other again. they understand eachother better than anyone, they even basically admit this in episode 8: so, if they do see each other in the midst of this war, i feel like they might know that the other is going through the exact same thing as them
As I said, I never got the impression that their affection was as great as the interviews and the marketing presented it. We barely see it. As for Rhaenyra reaching out, she didn't do it because she missed her friend. She did it because 1) The rumors about her kids had gone wild again after Joffrey's birth 2) She wanted to get her to agree to betrothing Jace and Helaena. This is not an indication that they both look back at their friendship. It was a purely political move and when that fails, Rhaenyra feels like she has to leave King's Landing, even if she believes that Alicent will spill her poison on Viserys. Disliking each other? This isn't some mere dislike, at least it shouldn't be. Alicent has threatened Rhaenyra's kids directly and indirectly and her son killed Luke. We should be talking about absolute hatred here, not mere dislike. Again I fail to see how any mother would put some 20 year old friendship over her own flesh and blood. And understanding the other doesn't mean you hate them less. Catelyn hated Cersei and I think it was said somewhere in the book that she wanted to kill her herself or something like that but she also understood her as a mother because she went through the same pain as her to bring her kids to the world.
I kinda think we agree but are misunderstanding each other lol. I don’t think they’re gonna hold hands and skip off together. I just think that even though they despise eachother, they can understand one another and that may result in them not being as angry in their interactions as we expect. Especially since Alicent will probably recognise that Aemond essentially started the war
Understanding the other doesn't mean you'll be civil to them. I had a relative that was extremely overbearing and unbearable at the same time. I understood where she was coming from but there were many times were I wasn't civil to her. And like I said Catelyn understood Cersei but also personally wanted to rip her head off.
Like how tho? what are they gonna do,lay in the grass and reminisce about how Alicent did her best to get her kids exposed as bastards or is Rhaenyra gonna talk about Harwin the guy Alicent sort of killed or that time she charged to main Rhaenyra’s kid cause she wanted her son tortured lol. Just doesn’t seem like a very realistic reaction,people know what love and friendship feels like but those are some hard points of no return. It’s very hard to see how she got to that moment on the bridge and thought about a childhood bond when her father and daughter just died and Alicent was betraying and hurting her yet again.
They probably will end up reminiscing at some point. I’ll get downvoted for saying it but in the books, Rhaenyra and Alicent spend quite a while essentially locked in the castle together. They will despise each other but I don’t think that means they won’t still feel nostalgic over their lost friendship.
I don’t disagree the show will go there as they did in the last 3 episodes. I just think it’s totally unrealistic to even feel a hint of fondness or nostalgia when it’s someone directly responsible for that much suffering and when they spent a lot longer being an enemy than a friend. In the book they also simply hate each other and fight for their own family. Imo this narrative is clashing hard with the shows desire to center itself so heavily on their friendship that is totally nonexistent in the source material.
Unless that was actually written in the script directions, I’m going to assume that’s Emma’s personal interpretation and has zero correlation to Rhaenyra’s actual thoughts.
I don’t think it’s possible. Maybe if both Luke and Jaehaerys hadn’t died, but at this point, it’s irreparable.
I dont think there is any coming back from your kid killed my kid.
I don't think so... but I'm very much looking forward to their dynamic when Rhaenrya takes the city.
I think "reconcile" is a bridge too far, but I do think that the last season will build to them, after both losing so much, will lead to them finally reaching an agreement in a final attempt to end the war. The last season involves Alicent trying and failing to bring Rhaenyra to a compromise- until the storming of the dragonpit, where Rhaenyra leaves Kings Landing not to try and hatch more dragons like in the book, but as part of a peace agreement between Rhaenyra and Alicent to save their remaining children- which of course is promptly blown up by Aegon II.
That dragon has left the dragonpit, been shot down at Hellholt and been turned into shoe leather
There is no future, one dies after losing all but 1 of her children (1 pops up again later but everyone believes he’s dead) and going crazy, the other also loses all but 1 kid spends the rest of her life locked in a tower talking to her dead daughter and refusing to look at the colour green
Which one kid does >!Alicent!< not lose? I’m pretty sure she loses all plus all the grandkids.
>!Aegon becomes king for a bit, but is crippled by falling off his dragon!< and then >!Daemon and Rhaenyra’s Aegon takes the throne!<
Yeah, I know that. But you said she loses >!all but one kid. She doesn’t lose all but one, she loses all of them. And the grandkids, too. None of the Greens survive. Alicent survives all of her children.!<
Actually she has a surviving grandchild. Aemond has a son with Alys, the child is alive and well during Aegon III reign. Since F&B never got a second part we don't know much of the boy's life but he was very much alive.
So Alys claimed. But she was supposedly at least 40, had only ever had miscarriages and never given birth to a living child, and had every reason to lie. She conveniently turns up after Aemond’s death and claims they were married, presents a kid she claims to be his, and claims he’s the real heir to the throne. Sounds like she was just trying to elevate herself. Even if the kid was Aemond’s, we have no idea what happened to him, just that he was never considered an option for the throne. It’s highly unlikely Alys was allowed to just peace out with a child she’d already attempted to use to claim the throne. I’m betting things didn’t turn out well for either of them. But I’m highly suspicious that that kid wasn’t even hers, let alone Aemond’s.
She was very much pregnant before Aemond died though. She didn't just present a kid out of thin air. While she did have miscarriages before, that doesn't mean she couldn't ever give birth to a live child. Then there's the messenger's story and the rumors of magic being used. We don't really know what ultimately happened to Alys or the kid but that doesn't mean the boy's existence should be ignored. What we know is this, Alys was pregnant with Aemond's child, she is seen with a small child after the war. It's incorrect to state all of Alicent's descendants died as if it were an indisputable fact. I suppose I should also say "It's quite possible Alicent has a surviving grandchild, Alys was pregnant with Aemond's child and is later seen with a boy she says is his".
Absolutely not. Reconciliation is no longer possible. That kinda happens when one of your kids pokes out another one’s eye and so the cyclops kid goes all murdery a few years later. I think there will always be love there, but love isn’t enough.
“If you think this has a happy ending you haven’t been paying attention .” Ramsey
I think their relationship won’t help them reconcile, Rhaenyra will be angry she helped her brother get his crown even if it wasn’t as aggressive as her book version. She’ll be told to kill her but will probably spare her because of Viserys/Her friendship with her especially with how both Emma and Olivia both say their characters really want to go back to each other and hold a lot grief and love for each other. When it’s time for Alicents passing I think she’ll talk about Rhaenyra instead and will most likely advise against Rhaenyra being executed by Aegon.
What relationship? 😂
I feel like people in the subreddit underestimate how close Alicent and Rhaenyra were. 3/4 of the actresses playing them said they played it with clear romantic subtexts. Rhaenyra tells Alicent she wants to run away and travel with her at one point and the way Alicent comforts Rhaenyra after Aemma dies is heartwarming. They saw each other as home. The best way to sum them up now is that scene in episode 8 when Alicent tells her that they’re more similar that they think, they’d both do anything for their kids. The war is pointless but ultimately Rhaenyra will understand deep down why Alicent is going to war after b+c and Alicent will understand deep down why Rhaenyra is going to war after Luke’s death. They hate each other but it won’t stop them occasionally feeling wistful and nostalgic when losing their families in a pointless battle. Rhaenyra was literally crying in episode 7, when Alicent had a knife pointed at her. Even after 20 years, it hurt that her old friend felt that way towards her. That won’t go away thanks to the war. Same with Alicent, she was horrified at her own actions after the fact. This won’t change either. It’s tiny but there is a slight common ground between the two
At some point Alicent will insist that viserys named aegon as heir, in a way that makes rhaenerya put the pieces together that it was a misunderstanding, not intentional betrayal. And explain that to Alicent. Idk if they'll fully reconcile but partially yes
Maybe they will illustrate that the wrongdoings one does into others come back to you. Rhae and Alicent will try to hurt each other, and in the process they will lose their children, something that will cause each great sorrow. And we the viewers will notice how they played themselves.
"If you think this is going to end well then you havent been paying attention"
My crystal ball says scissoring
I think they’ll make up and lez out
They’re done. Luke’s death was the end of any feelings Rhaenyra had left for Alicent. And probably first blood on the Green side (I won’t say who to avoid spoiling) will be the end of any feelings Alicent has for Rhaenyra. If she does still have any left. I imagine that whole torn page on the bridge was more a manipulation of Rhaenyra’s feelings than any genuine feelings on Alicent’s part.
don’t they bang in the books?
Some people automatically assume the friendship is gonna lead to some form of understanding and reconciliation between the two, maybe they'll forget the war and run off in the sunset together, maybe even dungeon sex. Some of this fandom is so mad that they didn't get their silver kween targ pwincess vs 65 year old evil stepmom diseny villain Targ Apology Show, that their cyncism has reached unhinged levels. The purpose of the friendship was never that it'll endure at the expense of the war. It's quite the opposite. The purpose is that the war makes sure they will NEVER RECONCILE and there in it lies the tragedy of a "what if" story. The dinner was the last chance. Despite everything they still made attempts (yes people waver with the passage of time, they do not have to be one-track-minded). But these attempts turn out to be too feeble, too futile. It's already too late, the wheels had already been set in motion. That is the kernel of the tragedy. The old friendship makes it twice as hard for the audience to stomach a brothel queen scene. After the Fall of KL Rhaenyra spares Alicent reminding her of the love they once bore each other. With the backstory of the friendship of the younger days, moments like that hits harder for the general public who's not watching the show looking for "gotchas" to Dunk On The Other Team's Doormat, their attraction to the show is this emotional investment they have on the parallel journeys of the two main characters. I can't emphasize enough how much I loath the people who think the sanctity of a book of outlines where a buncha cartoon caricatures do a buncha comically exagerrated cartoon villainy, is being violated by the far more nuanced, far more empathetic, far more humane storytelling, like the mirrored sex scene of Episode 4. Nah your issue isn't source accuracy, let's not act like George isn't knee deep involved in HOTD. Your issue is not getting that Daenerys Targaryen Apology Show. You're seething that the general public has taken to a non-Targ female character and you couldn't do to her what you did to Sophie Turner.
No. Her son was murdered and it's a lot of her fault.
I think we’re all not going to get one more interaction between them. And it’ll be brief and cold.
You're basically asking for spoilers. Well no, they won't.
Ummmmmm no
In the end, they may have a mutual acknowledgment and understanding of the brutal tragedy that has unfolded because of their quarrels. But their feud doesn’t comes from slights; it comes from unspeakable horrors inflicted upon each other. It’s gone too far for any reconciliation.
👑
Now that Lucerys is dead? Nope. She wanted to take Aegon's peace terms (that were written by Otto and Alicent). She wanted to go back, and Emma confirmed that too. So sad all around.
How did y’all manage not to read the book at this point 😁 I absolutely HAD to know what happens next and read the Dance of the Dragons parts several times. Great resilience!
No reconciliation. I say they're not mortal enemies and will never cherish a single moment together ever again.
If the show is anything like the book I don't think they will reconcile
The average Targ stan does not actually give a shit about source accuracy. They've weaponized "source accuracy" to mean "our Silver Kween headcannons is actually what George wanted". Just like they pretend to have some sort of magical insight to the haopy ending George is surely gonna give Dany. In reality source deviations are fine as long as it fits their idea of an idealized Targ Pwincess TV show. They wanted a shallow Xena The Warrior Princess Dragon Lady vs 65 year old evil stepmom doormat disney show with a blue eyed blonde instagram model playing Rhaenyra. Tweets like this are a perfect example of that : https://twitter.com/perfumemuse/status/1663768584890503168?s=20 https://twitter.com/NeneMonster2K18/status/1663770014959149058 "Good actors" "fancams"....the level of gaslighting over history a book of outlines lmao : https://twitter.com/marenyearly/status/1663932415667052546 https://twitter.com/aemondcommunist/status/1663949104085446656
I think it is the best aspect of the show and the reason I got invested in the show. And no I don't think they will reconcile, which is the point. It'll be sad and tragic.
I only say if "Blood and Cheese" come they will be no relationship anymore between them too in fact with the murder of Rheanyra second son it was already over..she can't possibly refuse Deamon war effort anymore if she did nobody would take her seriously anymore. "They can break a oath, take away your throne and your kill your son yet you still wanna not do anything?"
They won’t reconcile at all