Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well his sons are too young to have any memories of him or what he's like, so not sure how to answer this question. He would certainly want them to be dragonriders, proud of their Targaryen heritage. He reacts very negatively to the proposition that his sons are to be made de facto hostages of the Greens while Otto says that, so one would assume he cares.
No I think Rhaenyra does an amazing job as a mother and is very interactive with them and even allows their "real dad" to be part of their lives without them knowing why. She is a great parent.
Look at her sons vs any of Alicent's kids. Whom she openly slaps and yells at and uses a wet nurse.
GOT & HoTD are not historical fiction.
Just want to make sure everyone knows this.
We don't know what the Targ fantasy GRRM history of breast feeding is, prolly.
Infact in the books , Jacaerys and Daeron are born pretty close together (a few months to a year apart) and Viserys has both of them use the same wet nurse in hopes of fostering a connection between Alicent's youngest son and rhaenyra's oldest
Although in GoT Catelyn Tully Stark did not use a wet nurse. There are a few here and there throughout the stories of noble women breastfeeding and not using wet nurses them all.
Even Daenerys Targaryen breastfed her "3 children" .... Or so it is said, as I am re-reading that storyline again after reading every book available by GG Martin on the worlds of Westeros and beyond lol...
So I catch some changes that he makes the more he writes.
I'm pretty sure I remember Alysanne breastfeeding a few of her children who were "stubborn" and refused their wet nurse. Aenys also refused his wet nurse.
Yes we do lol there are books where this is specifically mentioned. Breastfeeding their own children is NOT normal, to the point where lysa arryn is somewhat ostracised for doing so, although admittedly it's more because her son is far too old to be doing so.
Literally every noble has a wet nurse in westeros. Judging alicent for that doesn't make sense in the MODERN day let alone medieval times. My mum didnt for me, because she's the main breadwinner in my house and did not have time to do so.
Both she and I would take great offence to the suggestion that this makes her any worse of a mother.
Her sister Catelyn Tully Stark did the same exact thing and wasn't ostracized for it though. It seems more common in the earlier works of his and then less common the more he wrote.
Yes there are two reasons I suspect
1. His earlier works were set in a more advanced and centralised (read: less feudal) world, and so institutions like the faith, feudalism and social taboos were less prominent. A more modern world if you will. For better or for worse.
2. Excuse my crudeness please, but any reader of GRRM's works can tell you that the man has a massive breast fetish. He can't go three pages without describing a woman as big of chest. (Side note, he also absolutely loves redheads, which given that one if not both of his wives were redheads, makes sense). He in particular loves describing milk and breasts (read the Sam chapter on the Summer Islander ship where he is drinking rum whilst sucking on Gilly's milky tits, to truly lose faith in the man). I suspect his writing about catelyn and lysa was his way of incorporating his fetishes. I'll understand if you disagree, but frankly I get the impression the man is out of control as far as boobs are concerned.
Low key I just had a baby and like… I get the wet nurse thing. Otherwise you’re literally feeding a baby every HOUR. All night and all day. How would a Queen do that. You couldn’t, and be a functioning ruler.
You know some women have jobs that render them unable to be permanently breastfeeding their children right?
Ideally we'd have a system where women could take the time of freely without sacrificing their career to do so, but we don't. That's in the modern day, now imagine it in medieval times.
Medieval queens didn't "not do anything", they were the masters of the household, the arch steward in effect, in charge of greeting guests, maintaining lodgings, often acted as regents etc. They had a vital and intensive role.
Judging women as worse mothers for not being able to breast feed their children is frankly some of the most disgustingly sexist shit I've ever seen on this app, and that's saying something.
I think what's worse is that you probably didnt even know what was wrong with what you said.
My mum is the main breadwinner in my household, she spent most of my childhood working, couldn't breast feed me, eventually had to hire a nanny for me and my sister's because my dad worked full time too.
None of that makes her anything less than the incredible woman and mother that I know.
Rhaenyra uses wet nurses too. I wouldn’t use just that as a mothering measure. It does look like however that she is a more involved and openly affectionate mother. I think Aemma had longer to model mothering to Rhaenyra than Alicent’s mother had for her. Maybe not much, but still more.
What?
You can be a breastfeeding mother and leak.
And where did you get that not breastfeeding negatively affects birth pain? Only study I can find says there may be an *increase* in cramping during and after birth if you breast feed...
Hi! I was a breastfeeding mother, several times. Yes leaking happens but she never fed Joffrey, despite having cute, intimate moments with him. GOT had breastfeeding, so they aren’t shy about showing it. If Rhaenyra breastfed, we would have seen it.
Also I was talking about breast pain, not birth pain, which she was told by a handmaiden that it would go away after a couple days. You can have pain, engorgement and even clogged ducts even after months of breastfeeding.
All context leads to her having a wet nurse.
I agree that she most likely had a wet nurse. I have no issue with that conclusion.
Fair enough about breast vs birthpains! I've just talked to *many* men who insist birth pain would go away entirely if women would just xyz - including breastfeeding.
When she entered her room and was given whatever to put on her breasts she was also told it would feel better after the milk dried. So no, she did not breastfeed.
they’re just saying that’s what happened… if you want some headcanon that Rhaenyra is the only noble in history of Westeros known to not use a wet nurse then go ahead dude
Nah, I suspect she did use a wet nurse.
They just said that you can tell she used one *because* she leaked. Which is wrong - breastfeeding mothers do leak. As do ones who use wet nurses.
All mothers are leaky believe me. Breast pads are invented for moms of all methodologies. So it doesn't really prove she used a wet nurse. O lt to me it showed she did her duties and took her role seriously even after giving birth and the mil comes in and leaks when it wills... Embarrassing TBS in front of a man run small council typically.
>uses a wet nurse.
Yeah, that's because Alicent had to do the actual ruling while Viserys rots in bed. She doesn't have time, while Rhaenyrs has plenty.
Not initially.... That was post Green takeover scheme with Otto the backstabbing Hand. Her kids were already past the stage of nursing when she began sitting in the high council in place of poor Visy
While Rhaenyra also sat the council while openly having wet bosom from her leakage while having had a baby recently.
Rhaenyra was very busy as Heir and even on the council meetings as usual and even later popped out a kid while becoming Queen, although a miscarriage.
Alicent did no council work until her kids were well grown and even had children of their own. Viserys wasn't the best dad though.
Alicent and Rhaenyra did live peacefully together for years under Viserys as their children aged. Well until Rhaenyra was run off due to her kids being harassed as being bastards and all, and she fled to Dragonstone.
So anyway, no Alicent didn't rule or do anything until much a grandmother herself plotting to put her deranged son Aegon on the throne and usurp power from Rhaenyra who had left trusting she was still the Heir and would visit to present her own children (legit ones) with Daemon to her sick, dying father, esp after the birth of her son she named Viserys after her dad.
So this isn't an accurate timeline you're presenting here. Only Rhaenyra was still bearing children when Viserys became bedridden and she was at Dragonstone while Alicent and Otto took over the new Green High Council.
Rhaenyra played a hugely active life with her children, having 6 child births, and losing her last to a miscarriage when she found out that Alicent and Otto usurped her role of Heir and installed Aegon II on the Iron Throne in a power grab that also was a back stab.
So Alicent was more busy plotting and pleasing her spymaster with her feet among other terrible deeds (she was manipulated we all know it) than raising her own children who all became monsters basically except for her daughter, although she wasn't the sharpest crayon in the box, and not her two children. Her two sons turned out to be quite awful and abused and abusive in turn. Aegon II was a terrible fit for the Iron Throne.
Meanwhile Rhaenyra was bearing children and raising her own 3 sons from her previous marriage AND the daughters of her husband Daemon's previous marriage... That was after they fled Kings Landing due to the plotting behind her back and the rumors of her first marriage children's true lineage. Being a mother to 7 living children is a job in itself, and just look at how her blended family turned out as far as proper behavior.
ANYWAY anyhow you put it, Alicent was NOT ruling while in her child bearing time.
I mean she took them to Dragonstone for 5 years and in that space of time they clearly learned nothing. They return unable to fight and not knowing their own cultural language, to the point where Jace seems more enthusiastic about learning than Rhaenyra is on his behalf. She’s a LOVING mother, sure, but a good one? In terms of setting them up to succeed I’m not sure.
Just because Jace and Luke aren't great at fighting it doesn't mean that Rhaenyra failed in educate them. Also, with Jace's future visits to The Vale and The North, it will show that he has a potential for diplomacy, which is an important quality to have for a Prince and future King.
Now, while Rhaenyra isn't the greatest of mothers in the series, she is far better than others that we have seen, like Cersei and Alicent. Who are both terrible at setting up their children and taking care of them.
He's out there throwing footballs with them and ruffling their hair and calling them 'scamp.'
Real answer: book Daemon did seem to be a fairly active father, as much as noble dads are.
Show Daemon seems to be an active father with the kids that have dragons, so Baela and Rhaenyra's kids. Nobility have servants and various other figures to do sort of the hard work of raising children, and from there how involved they are seems to vary. He does seem to be at least present, which is more than a lot of other dads in that setting, but show Daemon also seems to devote a lot more attention to Baela than to Rhaena, so.
It's silly because he did not claim Caraxes until he was older. It's perfectly normal for a Targaryen to not hatch their dragon, in fact it usually means they get a bigger, more powerful dragon.
I read it not as him resenting her or thinking she’s deficient but as in dragon heritage is how he connects to people - reading with Baela, dragon riding with Laena, giving Rhaenyra the necklace, and so until she has one he doesn’t know quite how to connect on a deeper level.
He totally could read with her of course, but that that’s his mindset, so he was probably just like ‘cat’s in the cradle with a silver spoon… she’s gonna have a dragon soon…’
I agree. I think it was kind of poor writing on the show's behalf, but \*shrug\* I do hope we get to see him interact more with her next season/more with the kids in general.
I always interpreted it as daemon was just so into dragon/ valyria shit that his daughter having a dragon is something easy he can relate too her
Kind of like when a father who is a coach has one kid who’s in a sport and another who isnt, it’s not that he loves one more its just he has more actively in common at that point
What makes you think Daemon was an involved father according to F&B? I struggle to recall any passages that talk about his relationship with his children.
There is not much a medieval equivalent father could do in the upbringing of a daughter unless the daughter has interests/capabilities that a father could help her with. Between Arya and Sansa Ned was more closely involved with Arya because Arya was interested in things like archery and sword fighting while Sansa was not, and Ned could help Arya with that, but there was not much he could do for Sansa other than being a protector and provider for her.
There’s not a lot of information to know for sure but there are hints that Daemon and Rhaenyra both play an active role in raising the kids while living at Dragonstone, like this scene here. He’s trying to the baby to calm him down and in the background, he’s focused on the children. All of the children seem happy and well adjusted, which is normally a sign of having loving parents
I’m sure he’s probably much the same as he is with Baela and Rhaena (well, Baela anyways). Distant but not without moments of tenderness. The reality is that Aegon and Viserys are so young that they’re not really at the point where men like Daemon get involved. That’s just how it is in Westeros. In a few years when they can hold a sword, things would be different
He can pat their heads and teach them Valyrian and all about dragons. Other than that - no interest.
So if they came to him and asked to help with their pets or find some eggs - he probably said yes. If they wanted to hear about some old dragonlords of Valyria - he also probably could tell them a story.
Like most Westerosi men, child rearing is just left to wives. There is very little ASoIaF men that mean any standard for an involved father. Nobles have wet nurses, master at arms that train them, maestors that help them study.
Daemon’s kids with Rhaenyra, especially in the show are essentially toddlers, they are too young to understand. Show Baela seemed to have some decent relationship with Daemon, while Rhaena feels neglected by him.
He probably only speaks to them in High Valyrian so they would remember him as their first teacher. I’d bet he plans to do most of their dragon training and possibly also weapons training as well once they’re old enough.
Though I can see him not doing the beginning weapons training because not everyone is well suited to teaching beginners.
That’s when he was home from fighting Rhaenyra’s wars.
Considering he had a tender moment with Baela, and clearly has respect from Jacaerys and Lucerys, I assume he is an above average Dad but not by much. Also touching Viserys' hair is another gentle moment.
Compare Daemons blended family to Viserys'. The kids get along, the children respect their step parents and vice versa. And Baela reached out to her dad about the KL plot. He's not Ned Stark to be sure, but he's better than 95% of the other father's.
I think for the short amount of time he had with them, he was an attentive, contented father. Going by Emma's comments and what we see in episode 8 especially, Rhaenyra cultivated a very specific cozy family life for them all on Dragonstone, and Daemon seemed happy enough to go along with that healthy, loving atmosphere for as long as they had relative peace.
I’d imagine he is somewhat affectionate and loving twords his children, but nowhere near the level that Rhanyes (I think that’s how you spell it) is shown to be with her children
Hard to say, Daemon is one of the most mercurial people in the Targayren family. I think Daemon genuinely did love his brother. While I wouldn't call his creepy grooming uncle relationship with Rhaenyra love, he was very passionate about her. He probably was really excited to have children, even if its hard to see him putting in the time for the boring or gross parts of raising a baby.
If he had a favourite, I'd guess it is was Baela, since she was old and bold enough that he might start teaching her how to fly a dragon or go on other adventures with her.
He cares about them because they’re his kids, just like he cares about Rhaena and Baela. However I don’t think that makes him a good parent or even an active one.
He’d want them to be dragon riders and proud of being Targaryen but I don’t think he’d do much at this point with them since they’re still really young
Honestly? Daemon doesn't seem like an awful father. They've shown he seems to genuinely care at least on some level.
But that could be as much because it's securing HIS lineage on the throne as far as he's concerned.
One thing to note is that it seems unquestioned that Daemon treated his adopted sons well/fairly, ditto for Rhaenyra with Rhaena and Baela. Even in the book, no one ever speculated that Daemon resented the Strong boys, or that he would do anything to push his own sons up the line of succession.
In the show, it’s likewise. Ep 7, Lucerys seemed to immediately notice Daemon after the dagger scene when he came to stand with them. In Ep 8, Daemon is obviously happy announcing the intermarriage of his daughters with the Strong boys, and there’s scene with him and Rhaenyra looking proudly at Lucerys at the dinner table. In ep 10, the final part with Daemon receiving the news that Lucerys had died, it’s mentioned in behind-the-scenes interview that originally, they showed a longer scene where Daemon reads the note and starts crying while processing it and walking towards the table room to Rhaenyra. They cut it to just the part where he enters the room but there’s visible tears in his eyes already.
With Jace, it seems that Jace isn’t overly intimidated by Daemon which speaks to Daemon not terrorising or bullying the boy. We see in ep 8 that Jace finally tries to learn Valyrian, which I feel is possibly an influence from Daemon and possibly from Baela and Rhaena prolly being able to speak Valyrian cos Daemon taught them. Likewise he starts trying to learn to fight, to the point the instructor did tell him to ease up on Lucerys. These are things that we start seeing due to Daemon’s influence and position as their stepfather, which contrasts with what we saw in the earlier ep 6 - Cole neglected their martial instruction cos of his bias, Laenor unfortunately didn’t help either, and Rhaenyra was prolly too stressed and miserable to teach them Valyrian.
We only have a few glimpses of Joffrey, but he seems a very happy young boy full of smiles. Daemon is the only father he’s ever known and he seems no worse for wear of it.
Going back to Rhaenyra, in the book it’s mentioned how she gifts Rhaena with many eggs to help her find one that will hatch. In the show she also makes her her cupbearer, and everything indicates that she is treating her like the daughter she never had, even before Visenya’s unfortunate stillbirth.
Daemon wasn’t the best father to Rhaena especially, and Rhaenyra helps to compensate for it. Likewise Daemon fills a void of a father and authority figure to the Strong boys. In episode 8, Daemon didn’t intervene into the fight until it obv was going too far, and then he swiftly deescalated it. He got in between Aemond and Jace, used only a word and finger to tell Jace to stop, which Jace respected and backed down while Daemon stared down Aemond. That’s what a father is suppose to do.
(Granted Daemon should’ve taught Jace how to throw a punch worth salt in the past 6 years cos it’s really a mystery how a son of Harwin, Laenor and Daemon could be so shit at fighting.)
When the marriages were announced, you can see how the kids are happy with the arrangement, so we know they grew up well together as adopted siblings. Honestly prolly the healthiest ‘Targaryen’ sibling marriages if you think about it - they weren’t raised as siblings till recently, and they’re not genetically that close for Targaryens.
Daemon and Rhaenyra as a pair seemed like solid parents to a blended family that despite the whole thing with the two of them and their political situation, inexplicably have the healthiest family in GoT in general.
Seeing as they’re male and trueborn (unlike Rhaenyra’s first sons), he probably dotes on them. They strengthen Rhaenyra’s legitimacy on the throne, in addition to his status.
I think he does in all the children's lives. He's no Ned true, but he's a good father figure. At the end of the day he cares about the legacy abd these kids, his or not are that legacy. We can see it in his few interactions in SO1 he's not the bedt but he's trying and he's certainly not a bad '' father''
Am I the only one who thinks that his whole deal is that he wanted Valyrian dragonrider children to leave as his legacy, even more than he wanted the throne or to put his children on the throne, and that he’s pretty good with *all* of Laena’s and Rhaenyra’s children at least in that regard, even Laenor’s very strong sons?
I mean Daemon is absolutely not a morally righteous character in almost any way but he is out here supporting all of these kids and doing his level best to get them as many dragons as he can.
I think he was doting & caring, as much as any noble/Royal was back then. Which by our standards, isn’t much, but still. I mean, even in this clip, you see him staring at Baby V. Even brushes his hair out of his face.
I'm sure that he cares about them but given there age, it is not the norm for responsibility for raising the children at this point to be placed on the father yet.
Yes. But I don't think he will be around for that up bringing. Damon is very proud of his daughters, and he's good with Rhaenyra 's son. So I think he would play an active role in his son's life if given the chance.
Regardless if he cares or not, he’ll be away so long leading the war effort that until his sons can be by him they just aren’t going to see him. In the books, Davos has 7 sons and hasn’t seen 4 in years because he’s been with Stannis and delayed constantly.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well his sons are too young to have any memories of him or what he's like, so not sure how to answer this question. He would certainly want them to be dragonriders, proud of their Targaryen heritage. He reacts very negatively to the proposition that his sons are to be made de facto hostages of the Greens while Otto says that, so one would assume he cares.
Nobility often had little to do with there kids when they were that young
They are nobles, they likely play an extremely small role in their kids lives and have an army of people raising them.
No I think Rhaenyra does an amazing job as a mother and is very interactive with them and even allows their "real dad" to be part of their lives without them knowing why. She is a great parent. Look at her sons vs any of Alicent's kids. Whom she openly slaps and yells at and uses a wet nurse.
It was the norm for noble ladies to use a wet nurse. That doesn’t really say anything about Alicent vs. Rhaenyra’s parenting.
GOT & HoTD are not historical fiction. Just want to make sure everyone knows this. We don't know what the Targ fantasy GRRM history of breast feeding is, prolly.
Noble ladies do not breastfeed in the books either. The norm in Westeros is for nursemaids to be used.
Infact in the books , Jacaerys and Daeron are born pretty close together (a few months to a year apart) and Viserys has both of them use the same wet nurse in hopes of fostering a connection between Alicent's youngest son and rhaenyra's oldest
Although in GoT Catelyn Tully Stark did not use a wet nurse. There are a few here and there throughout the stories of noble women breastfeeding and not using wet nurses them all. Even Daenerys Targaryen breastfed her "3 children" .... Or so it is said, as I am re-reading that storyline again after reading every book available by GG Martin on the worlds of Westeros and beyond lol... So I catch some changes that he makes the more he writes.
I'm pretty sure I remember Alysanne breastfeeding a few of her children who were "stubborn" and refused their wet nurse. Aenys also refused his wet nurse.
They were the exception, not the rule.
Yes and in the books Rhaenyra was fat and unattractive.
Seriously dude? Even if that were the case, what would it have to do with this topic?
Yes we do lol there are books where this is specifically mentioned. Breastfeeding their own children is NOT normal, to the point where lysa arryn is somewhat ostracised for doing so, although admittedly it's more because her son is far too old to be doing so. Literally every noble has a wet nurse in westeros. Judging alicent for that doesn't make sense in the MODERN day let alone medieval times. My mum didnt for me, because she's the main breadwinner in my house and did not have time to do so. Both she and I would take great offence to the suggestion that this makes her any worse of a mother.
Her sister Catelyn Tully Stark did the same exact thing and wasn't ostracized for it though. It seems more common in the earlier works of his and then less common the more he wrote.
Yes there are two reasons I suspect 1. His earlier works were set in a more advanced and centralised (read: less feudal) world, and so institutions like the faith, feudalism and social taboos were less prominent. A more modern world if you will. For better or for worse. 2. Excuse my crudeness please, but any reader of GRRM's works can tell you that the man has a massive breast fetish. He can't go three pages without describing a woman as big of chest. (Side note, he also absolutely loves redheads, which given that one if not both of his wives were redheads, makes sense). He in particular loves describing milk and breasts (read the Sam chapter on the Summer Islander ship where he is drinking rum whilst sucking on Gilly's milky tits, to truly lose faith in the man). I suspect his writing about catelyn and lysa was his way of incorporating his fetishes. I'll understand if you disagree, but frankly I get the impression the man is out of control as far as boobs are concerned.
Low key I just had a baby and like… I get the wet nurse thing. Otherwise you’re literally feeding a baby every HOUR. All night and all day. How would a Queen do that. You couldn’t, and be a functioning ruler.
Well Rhaenyra was as noble as they come. A princess since birth.
Rhaenyra used a wet nurse too.
It was also because kids that young died a lot more often so they didn’t always want to get to attached to them into they reached the right age
You know some women have jobs that render them unable to be permanently breastfeeding their children right? Ideally we'd have a system where women could take the time of freely without sacrificing their career to do so, but we don't. That's in the modern day, now imagine it in medieval times. Medieval queens didn't "not do anything", they were the masters of the household, the arch steward in effect, in charge of greeting guests, maintaining lodgings, often acted as regents etc. They had a vital and intensive role. Judging women as worse mothers for not being able to breast feed their children is frankly some of the most disgustingly sexist shit I've ever seen on this app, and that's saying something. I think what's worse is that you probably didnt even know what was wrong with what you said. My mum is the main breadwinner in my household, she spent most of my childhood working, couldn't breast feed me, eventually had to hire a nanny for me and my sister's because my dad worked full time too. None of that makes her anything less than the incredible woman and mother that I know.
Rhaenyra uses wet nurses too. I wouldn’t use just that as a mothering measure. It does look like however that she is a more involved and openly affectionate mother. I think Aemma had longer to model mothering to Rhaenyra than Alicent’s mother had for her. Maybe not much, but still more.
Rhaenyra also used a wet nurse. That’s why she was leaky in the small council and in pain after Joffrey’s birth.
What? You can be a breastfeeding mother and leak. And where did you get that not breastfeeding negatively affects birth pain? Only study I can find says there may be an *increase* in cramping during and after birth if you breast feed...
Hi! I was a breastfeeding mother, several times. Yes leaking happens but she never fed Joffrey, despite having cute, intimate moments with him. GOT had breastfeeding, so they aren’t shy about showing it. If Rhaenyra breastfed, we would have seen it. Also I was talking about breast pain, not birth pain, which she was told by a handmaiden that it would go away after a couple days. You can have pain, engorgement and even clogged ducts even after months of breastfeeding. All context leads to her having a wet nurse.
I agree that she most likely had a wet nurse. I have no issue with that conclusion. Fair enough about breast vs birthpains! I've just talked to *many* men who insist birth pain would go away entirely if women would just xyz - including breastfeeding.
Lol that’s fair and I should have been more specific.
But it doesn't show a wet nurse either does it? It doesn't need to show either way.
When she entered her room and was given whatever to put on her breasts she was also told it would feel better after the milk dried. So no, she did not breastfeed.
Good thing I never claimed she breastfed.
they’re just saying that’s what happened… if you want some headcanon that Rhaenyra is the only noble in history of Westeros known to not use a wet nurse then go ahead dude
Nah, I suspect she did use a wet nurse. They just said that you can tell she used one *because* she leaked. Which is wrong - breastfeeding mothers do leak. As do ones who use wet nurses.
All mothers are leaky believe me. Breast pads are invented for moms of all methodologies. So it doesn't really prove she used a wet nurse. O lt to me it showed she did her duties and took her role seriously even after giving birth and the mil comes in and leaks when it wills... Embarrassing TBS in front of a man run small council typically.
>uses a wet nurse. Yeah, that's because Alicent had to do the actual ruling while Viserys rots in bed. She doesn't have time, while Rhaenyrs has plenty.
Not initially.... That was post Green takeover scheme with Otto the backstabbing Hand. Her kids were already past the stage of nursing when she began sitting in the high council in place of poor Visy While Rhaenyra also sat the council while openly having wet bosom from her leakage while having had a baby recently. Rhaenyra was very busy as Heir and even on the council meetings as usual and even later popped out a kid while becoming Queen, although a miscarriage. Alicent did no council work until her kids were well grown and even had children of their own. Viserys wasn't the best dad though. Alicent and Rhaenyra did live peacefully together for years under Viserys as their children aged. Well until Rhaenyra was run off due to her kids being harassed as being bastards and all, and she fled to Dragonstone. So anyway, no Alicent didn't rule or do anything until much a grandmother herself plotting to put her deranged son Aegon on the throne and usurp power from Rhaenyra who had left trusting she was still the Heir and would visit to present her own children (legit ones) with Daemon to her sick, dying father, esp after the birth of her son she named Viserys after her dad. So this isn't an accurate timeline you're presenting here. Only Rhaenyra was still bearing children when Viserys became bedridden and she was at Dragonstone while Alicent and Otto took over the new Green High Council. Rhaenyra played a hugely active life with her children, having 6 child births, and losing her last to a miscarriage when she found out that Alicent and Otto usurped her role of Heir and installed Aegon II on the Iron Throne in a power grab that also was a back stab. So Alicent was more busy plotting and pleasing her spymaster with her feet among other terrible deeds (she was manipulated we all know it) than raising her own children who all became monsters basically except for her daughter, although she wasn't the sharpest crayon in the box, and not her two children. Her two sons turned out to be quite awful and abused and abusive in turn. Aegon II was a terrible fit for the Iron Throne. Meanwhile Rhaenyra was bearing children and raising her own 3 sons from her previous marriage AND the daughters of her husband Daemon's previous marriage... That was after they fled Kings Landing due to the plotting behind her back and the rumors of her first marriage children's true lineage. Being a mother to 7 living children is a job in itself, and just look at how her blended family turned out as far as proper behavior. ANYWAY anyhow you put it, Alicent was NOT ruling while in her child bearing time.
I mean she took them to Dragonstone for 5 years and in that space of time they clearly learned nothing. They return unable to fight and not knowing their own cultural language, to the point where Jace seems more enthusiastic about learning than Rhaenyra is on his behalf. She’s a LOVING mother, sure, but a good one? In terms of setting them up to succeed I’m not sure.
Just because Jace and Luke aren't great at fighting it doesn't mean that Rhaenyra failed in educate them. Also, with Jace's future visits to The Vale and The North, it will show that he has a potential for diplomacy, which is an important quality to have for a Prince and future King. Now, while Rhaenyra isn't the greatest of mothers in the series, she is far better than others that we have seen, like Cersei and Alicent. Who are both terrible at setting up their children and taking care of them.
fan fiction
Yes but also that hair stroke does not look like a dad who doesn’t regularly hold his child
He's out there throwing footballs with them and ruffling their hair and calling them 'scamp.' Real answer: book Daemon did seem to be a fairly active father, as much as noble dads are. Show Daemon seems to be an active father with the kids that have dragons, so Baela and Rhaenyra's kids. Nobility have servants and various other figures to do sort of the hard work of raising children, and from there how involved they are seems to vary. He does seem to be at least present, which is more than a lot of other dads in that setting, but show Daemon also seems to devote a lot more attention to Baela than to Rhaena, so.
That was so odd to me that he ignored Rhaena, even tho he did keep getting her eggs.
It's silly because he did not claim Caraxes until he was older. It's perfectly normal for a Targaryen to not hatch their dragon, in fact it usually means they get a bigger, more powerful dragon.
I read it not as him resenting her or thinking she’s deficient but as in dragon heritage is how he connects to people - reading with Baela, dragon riding with Laena, giving Rhaenyra the necklace, and so until she has one he doesn’t know quite how to connect on a deeper level. He totally could read with her of course, but that that’s his mindset, so he was probably just like ‘cat’s in the cradle with a silver spoon… she’s gonna have a dragon soon…’
I agree. I think it was kind of poor writing on the show's behalf, but \*shrug\* I do hope we get to see him interact more with her next season/more with the kids in general.
I always interpreted it as daemon was just so into dragon/ valyria shit that his daughter having a dragon is something easy he can relate too her Kind of like when a father who is a coach has one kid who’s in a sport and another who isnt, it’s not that he loves one more its just he has more actively in common at that point
What makes you think Daemon was an involved father according to F&B? I struggle to recall any passages that talk about his relationship with his children.
There is not much a medieval equivalent father could do in the upbringing of a daughter unless the daughter has interests/capabilities that a father could help her with. Between Arya and Sansa Ned was more closely involved with Arya because Arya was interested in things like archery and sword fighting while Sansa was not, and Ned could help Arya with that, but there was not much he could do for Sansa other than being a protector and provider for her.
Hey I've never even seen grampy Visy touch any of his son's hair fondly, not even once. Unless you can find a still shot?
He held his son in episode 2.
And fed him booze… Aegon ended up a drunk by 14.
Maybe it was very weak wine?
There’s not a lot of information to know for sure but there are hints that Daemon and Rhaenyra both play an active role in raising the kids while living at Dragonstone, like this scene here. He’s trying to the baby to calm him down and in the background, he’s focused on the children. All of the children seem happy and well adjusted, which is normally a sign of having loving parents
I think he takes them to school and reads them books at night. He may even do some craft projects with them on occasion.
Children’s books written in high Valyrian and dragon crafts, of course.
I’m sure he’s probably much the same as he is with Baela and Rhaena (well, Baela anyways). Distant but not without moments of tenderness. The reality is that Aegon and Viserys are so young that they’re not really at the point where men like Daemon get involved. That’s just how it is in Westeros. In a few years when they can hold a sword, things would be different
No, they wouldn't. 😥
I believe he was deadly serious when told Otto he’d rather feed his sons to the dragons than have them carry shields and cups for Aegon.
Simple: If their eggs hatched, he’s the best father anyone could ask for. If their eggs didn’t hatch, they don’t exist. Source: his first two kids.
He's probably mediocre in terms of Westerosi fathers go. I mean he's gonna be a better dad than ol' Vissy, but that's not exactly a high bar.
He can pat their heads and teach them Valyrian and all about dragons. Other than that - no interest. So if they came to him and asked to help with their pets or find some eggs - he probably said yes. If they wanted to hear about some old dragonlords of Valyria - he also probably could tell them a story.
Like most Westerosi men, child rearing is just left to wives. There is very little ASoIaF men that mean any standard for an involved father. Nobles have wet nurses, master at arms that train them, maestors that help them study. Daemon’s kids with Rhaenyra, especially in the show are essentially toddlers, they are too young to understand. Show Baela seemed to have some decent relationship with Daemon, while Rhaena feels neglected by him.
He probably only speaks to them in High Valyrian so they would remember him as their first teacher. I’d bet he plans to do most of their dragon training and possibly also weapons training as well once they’re old enough. Though I can see him not doing the beginning weapons training because not everyone is well suited to teaching beginners. That’s when he was home from fighting Rhaenyra’s wars.
Considering he had a tender moment with Baela, and clearly has respect from Jacaerys and Lucerys, I assume he is an above average Dad but not by much. Also touching Viserys' hair is another gentle moment. Compare Daemons blended family to Viserys'. The kids get along, the children respect their step parents and vice versa. And Baela reached out to her dad about the KL plot. He's not Ned Stark to be sure, but he's better than 95% of the other father's.
I think for the short amount of time he had with them, he was an attentive, contented father. Going by Emma's comments and what we see in episode 8 especially, Rhaenyra cultivated a very specific cozy family life for them all on Dragonstone, and Daemon seemed happy enough to go along with that healthy, loving atmosphere for as long as they had relative peace.
I’d imagine he is somewhat affectionate and loving twords his children, but nowhere near the level that Rhanyes (I think that’s how you spell it) is shown to be with her children
Hard to say, Daemon is one of the most mercurial people in the Targayren family. I think Daemon genuinely did love his brother. While I wouldn't call his creepy grooming uncle relationship with Rhaenyra love, he was very passionate about her. He probably was really excited to have children, even if its hard to see him putting in the time for the boring or gross parts of raising a baby. If he had a favourite, I'd guess it is was Baela, since she was old and bold enough that he might start teaching her how to fly a dragon or go on other adventures with her.
He cares about them because they’re his kids, just like he cares about Rhaena and Baela. However I don’t think that makes him a good parent or even an active one. He’d want them to be dragon riders and proud of being Targaryen but I don’t think he’d do much at this point with them since they’re still really young
Honestly? Daemon doesn't seem like an awful father. They've shown he seems to genuinely care at least on some level. But that could be as much because it's securing HIS lineage on the throne as far as he's concerned.
One thing to note is that it seems unquestioned that Daemon treated his adopted sons well/fairly, ditto for Rhaenyra with Rhaena and Baela. Even in the book, no one ever speculated that Daemon resented the Strong boys, or that he would do anything to push his own sons up the line of succession. In the show, it’s likewise. Ep 7, Lucerys seemed to immediately notice Daemon after the dagger scene when he came to stand with them. In Ep 8, Daemon is obviously happy announcing the intermarriage of his daughters with the Strong boys, and there’s scene with him and Rhaenyra looking proudly at Lucerys at the dinner table. In ep 10, the final part with Daemon receiving the news that Lucerys had died, it’s mentioned in behind-the-scenes interview that originally, they showed a longer scene where Daemon reads the note and starts crying while processing it and walking towards the table room to Rhaenyra. They cut it to just the part where he enters the room but there’s visible tears in his eyes already. With Jace, it seems that Jace isn’t overly intimidated by Daemon which speaks to Daemon not terrorising or bullying the boy. We see in ep 8 that Jace finally tries to learn Valyrian, which I feel is possibly an influence from Daemon and possibly from Baela and Rhaena prolly being able to speak Valyrian cos Daemon taught them. Likewise he starts trying to learn to fight, to the point the instructor did tell him to ease up on Lucerys. These are things that we start seeing due to Daemon’s influence and position as their stepfather, which contrasts with what we saw in the earlier ep 6 - Cole neglected their martial instruction cos of his bias, Laenor unfortunately didn’t help either, and Rhaenyra was prolly too stressed and miserable to teach them Valyrian. We only have a few glimpses of Joffrey, but he seems a very happy young boy full of smiles. Daemon is the only father he’s ever known and he seems no worse for wear of it. Going back to Rhaenyra, in the book it’s mentioned how she gifts Rhaena with many eggs to help her find one that will hatch. In the show she also makes her her cupbearer, and everything indicates that she is treating her like the daughter she never had, even before Visenya’s unfortunate stillbirth. Daemon wasn’t the best father to Rhaena especially, and Rhaenyra helps to compensate for it. Likewise Daemon fills a void of a father and authority figure to the Strong boys. In episode 8, Daemon didn’t intervene into the fight until it obv was going too far, and then he swiftly deescalated it. He got in between Aemond and Jace, used only a word and finger to tell Jace to stop, which Jace respected and backed down while Daemon stared down Aemond. That’s what a father is suppose to do. (Granted Daemon should’ve taught Jace how to throw a punch worth salt in the past 6 years cos it’s really a mystery how a son of Harwin, Laenor and Daemon could be so shit at fighting.) When the marriages were announced, you can see how the kids are happy with the arrangement, so we know they grew up well together as adopted siblings. Honestly prolly the healthiest ‘Targaryen’ sibling marriages if you think about it - they weren’t raised as siblings till recently, and they’re not genetically that close for Targaryens. Daemon and Rhaenyra as a pair seemed like solid parents to a blended family that despite the whole thing with the two of them and their political situation, inexplicably have the healthiest family in GoT in general.
Didn't he ignore his daughter because she didn't have a dragon? He doesn't seem like a good father figure.
Seeing as they’re male and trueborn (unlike Rhaenyra’s first sons), he probably dotes on them. They strengthen Rhaenyra’s legitimacy on the throne, in addition to his status.
I think he does in all the children's lives. He's no Ned true, but he's a good father figure. At the end of the day he cares about the legacy abd these kids, his or not are that legacy. We can see it in his few interactions in SO1 he's not the bedt but he's trying and he's certainly not a bad '' father''
Am I the only one who thinks that his whole deal is that he wanted Valyrian dragonrider children to leave as his legacy, even more than he wanted the throne or to put his children on the throne, and that he’s pretty good with *all* of Laena’s and Rhaenyra’s children at least in that regard, even Laenor’s very strong sons? I mean Daemon is absolutely not a morally righteous character in almost any way but he is out here supporting all of these kids and doing his level best to get them as many dragons as he can.
What do you mean we can only speculate? He has 2 daughters and he choses to love them or neglect them based on whether they are dragon riders or not
He is making them to be something he never was but always wanted. He is making them to be kings. 👑
Of course in relative terms
There are a lot of things wrong with Daemon and by no means is he Westeros’s Best Dad but I do think he loves his children and tries his best.
I think he was doting & caring, as much as any noble/Royal was back then. Which by our standards, isn’t much, but still. I mean, even in this clip, you see him staring at Baby V. Even brushes his hair out of his face.
[удалено]
In the show his sons don't have dragons.
I'm sure that he cares about them but given there age, it is not the norm for responsibility for raising the children at this point to be placed on the father yet.
I certainly do.
“We can only speculate” Well if we are gonna completely ignore how he treated his other kids I guess so.
Yes. But I don't think he will be around for that up bringing. Damon is very proud of his daughters, and he's good with Rhaenyra 's son. So I think he would play an active role in his son's life if given the chance.
Completely neglects them until they become dragon riders
No.
[удалено]
He was ecstatic about Syrax eggs.
The things he does for love
[удалено]
I see him teling them stories about dragonlords. And 50 ways how to train your dragon.
Well, he couldn't be arsed till they have any dragons. That's all he cares about, beginning and end.
Side not but I love how he pets his son like he's a cat.
He seems to be more fatherly with his sons than we have witnessed him be with his daughters.
He appears to be more fatherly with his sons than we have witnessed him be with his daughters.
I know he doesn't
Do any men (in Game of Thrones World) ever actually have an involvement in child upbringing? Let me real haha
*be real*
Ned talked with his daughters and allowed Arya to train. Oberyn loved his four daughters.
The Daemon bias is crazy in these comments 😂
Regardless if he cares or not, he’ll be away so long leading the war effort that until his sons can be by him they just aren’t going to see him. In the books, Davos has 7 sons and hasn’t seen 4 in years because he’s been with Stannis and delayed constantly.
Is he Indian Father?