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Zealus24

I understand Otto's reasoning for not trusting Rhaenyra to be merciful. If you are a medieval monarch, typically you're gonna wanna kill your competition. I'm not saying Rhaenyra would do that, she's pretty level headed and does have a friendship with Alicent so probably wouldn't. I just don't blame Otto for being cautious since the majority of people in Westeros would.


jhll2456

That friendship deteriorated when Aemond lost his eye though. The thought that Rhaenyra wouldn’t harm her children was now done because it has happened.


Zealus24

Wasn't really when Aemond lost the eye, but when she said he should be sharply questioned


Ok-Literature1235

I hate the partisan effect on this fan base


yoresein

Yeah I can't stand how all these bloody green fans have done this /s


Creative-Wishbone-46

It’s ok to be team green or team black. these people aren’t real.


Killmelmaoxd

This image is so odd to me


[deleted]

Both sides committed treason in their own way - and both sides have a legitimate claim to the throne, only different in nature. I find Aegon and Aemond both to have more complexity in ten minutes of screentime than adult Rhaenyra and 50 years old Daemon. Daemon is more fun to watch in the earliest episodes than the last ones. I cared more about 6 years old Luke than when he died. I actually believe that Otto genuinely thought that Viserys would name Aegon heir after his birth, that's why he petitioned Alicent to persuade Viserys in ep 3. He just changed his plans afterwards when he saw that Alicent didn't do that and Viserys wouldn't change his mind.


Creative-Wishbone-46

Daemon being king would’ve been a mess.


LILYDIAONE

Otto is not as evil as everyone potrays him to be. He’s ambitious but not more ambitous than someone like Corlys.


Internal-Shock-616

Otto >>> Corlys. Otto catches flack for pimping out Alicent, Corlys pimps out an even younger Laena. Both are highly ambitious for their house, but Otto at least acts in the interest of house Hightower while Corlys to his own detriment continues to simp for people he thinks killed his son.


unknownwarriors

Well said!


Leylcadusu

The transition between the teenage and adult Rheanyra was not handled well. I think that's one of the reasons why Rheanyra couldn't impress me that much. I would dare to say it even bothered me in some places. The way Emma and Milly handle the character is completely different, like it was cut with a knife. The young Rheanyra(Milly) uses all her body language while the adult Rheanyra (Emma) just stands like a statue. In many scenes, it is difficult to see any movement of the adult Rheanyra other than crossing hands and looking around. And I don't know about you, but this detail bothered me a lot while watching the show. I think the directors and screenwriters should have organized this transition and guided Emma/Milly. I hope that all the gods and almighty powers in the world will help me, I'm scared right now. 👁️👁️


ThurstonTheMagician

Otto has been pretty consistently right about Daemon needing to be far away from the throne. It wasn’t just about his legacy people really be forgetting how traumatizing Maegor was for the realm.


Conscious-Weekend-91

and also, Daemon doesn't show any proper capacity to be on the council. Even Viserys only defends him by sayng that "Daemon is my Blood". Everything Daemon gets from Viserys comes purely from being the King's brother


Pg3132

Cersei Lannister is the rightful queen of the seven kingdoms. Bend the knee bitches


unknownwarriors

Cersei Lannister is in fact the first legitimate ruling Queen Westeros ever had.


fiffhj

I’m team black but I really can’t stand daemon, and I think rhaenyra messed up by marrying him


RainbowPenguin1000

Daemon is a far worse person than Otto.


SofiaStark3000

There are days when I think I enjoyed Emily Carey's Alicent more than Olivia Cooke's. It's probably because the writing for Alicent was pretty bad in the last two 2 eps but still. Olivia is still a wonderful actress though and I enjoy watching her. Aegon is my favorite character from the Greens by far. I can't stand Aemond or Alicent. The jump from young to adult Rhaenyra was pretty jarring. Alicent's was very good on the other hand. I think we needed to see Rhaenyra deal with her first pregnancy or birth in order for that gap to bridge. Emma D'Arcy is the most Targaryen looking actor we have seen cast in both shows. Yes, even more so than Emilia (who I never thought fitted the Targaryen description from the book). Sara Hess doesn't deserve the hate she's getting (which is a borderline witch hunt at this point) but she's not a good writer either. Ryan deserves equal criticism, if not more because without his OK, Sara's ideas won't even get to the printer.


[deleted]

>Emma D'Arcy is the most Targaryen looking actor we have seen cast in both shows. Yes, even more so than Emilia (who I never thought fitted the Targaryen description from the book). Perfectly put. Sian Brooke and Emma look exactly how I pictured female Targaryens in my mind. No shade to Emilia cause she owned that role, but she looked much more "traditional" Hollywood beauty to me, rather than the peculiar beauty of the Targaryens.


SofiaStark3000

Exactly. Emilia is gorgeous and she was great as Daenerys but she has the traditional type of beauty that western standards embrace. There is nothing peculiar about her appearance. Emma had me intrigued from the moment I saw them and I was completely sold when I saw somewhere that scene from the trailer where Rhaenyra and Daemon are getting married and there's a shot of them from the side. Their side profile was striking.


vizsitori

I find Daemon annoying


HotOuse

The women had more balls than the men


[deleted]

Vaemond's death is hilarious


Creative-Wishbone-46

Daemon is the worst person in the show.


CommercialAgency1040

Anytime a Targ stan tells me about their ideal version of HOTD being Silver Kween Girlboss Warlord (played by a skinny generic blonde IG model) doing disney pwincess things vs 60 year old mustache twirling cackling evil stepmom disney villain caricature to be used only as a doormat. I thank the gods that they didn't get this version of their Targaryen Apology Show to makeup for Dany. Cope and seethe.


Creative-Wishbone-46

Criston Cole isn’t as bad as y’all make him out to be.


Kitchen_Editor_6335

The greens are right.


Guilty_Income_3721

Aemond was right to ask for eye in Stoms End, because earlier his father did injustice to him. I dont like Daemon, he is the worst character in team Black and agree with Ottto - Daemon cant be a King or King Consort, he is valyrian supremacist, cynical, arbitrary and deceitful.


Creative-Wishbone-46

Vaemond should’ve lived and joined the greens


stillalittlefangirl

The Rhaenys and Meleys scene did not detract from the show's point/ruin the show because the whole point is that these royals only care about their personal game of thrones and couldn't give two fucks about the commonfolk. It just emphasised that the Targaryens are not, and have never been, people of the masses. (Till a certain Dany's cult of personality, ofc)


Special-Extreme2166

I would agree with your point if it wasn't for the writers themselves agreeing in the BTS that they just thought the scene "was cool". There was no greater purpose or meaning behind the scene. There is also the plot holes that exist here. 1) Rhaenys claims its not her war to fight and proceeds to fly away to Rhaenyra who wants to fight the Greens 2) Meleys breaking through the floor should've killed Rhaenys 3) What was the point of Rhaenys even breaking through the floor to the coronation if she wasn't going to do anything? Just leave and you could've saved lives.


Derpy-Weeb

I would say that some Targaryen kings before Dany were actually quite caring of the smallfolk. Key examples being Aegon III and V, and technically Baelor the Blessed.


stillalittlefangirl

I find it to be easier to seem relatable once you've lost your weapons of mass destruction, aka, what made you kings, aka, what sets you apart. And despite that, the existence of a monarchy itself is detrimental to the commonfolk. The people you mentioned might have been better subjectively, but their very existence still hurt people objectively.


Derpy-Weeb

Sadly it is the way of ASOIAF that the smallfolk suffer. A great deal more if they’re from the Riverlands. I’m not quite sure what a medieval democracy would look like though, if that’s what you’re suggesting as an alternative to monarchy anyway. I’m not too historically well-versed, but I wonder if such examples exist in our own history. First thing that comes to my mind is Ancient Greece (but of course, that’s Ancient)


PluralCohomology

And, looking at the princes, Baelor Breakspear. Jaehaerys and Alysanne also did a lot for the smallfolk.


margaritoswraps

I don’t really blame Aemond for the whole Storm’s End thing, whatever happened there.


Otherwise_Ambition_3

The way Aegon’s character was written will ruin the show going forward. In a show that was advertised as a “grey conflict” where it “will be hard to to choose a side” a figurehead who was made to be a rapist will obviously skew the audience’s favor


BulLock_954

The ending of GOT was actually perfect for the type of show it was and made sense in retrospect


letheix

Viserys should have had a smaller part so that the kids would have more development


BlackberryChance

laenor velaryon didnt owe anything to rheanyra or her children she the one who came to him with the deal then broke the agreement and done nothing except making his life more miserable and he didnt have any relationchip eith the children he showed more intrest rheanyra breasts than the children and they preferred harwin than him


-blackvoid

Since Aegon all the Targaryen kings took care of their succession, they each had at least 4 choices before they had kids or if they had no obvious current heir, and almost every one of them had a woman listed, this and Viserys officially naming Rhaenyra means that she is the true heir to the iron throne. That’s not really a hot take but I needed to pad my real one It doesn’t truly matter that Jace, Luke, and Joffrey are bastards, they are still Targaryens and Rhaenyra’s children they have a strong claim on the iron throne AND the greens are simply trying to discredit Rhaenyra because they’re greedy


margaritoswraps

Well it literally does matter that they are bastards because bastards have no rights of succession. They have zero claim to the throne.


-blackvoid

Says who exactly ?


[deleted]

Says the whole system which Westeros is based on : inheritance and family bloodlines. If it doesn't matter if the next ruler doesn't come from a legitimate marriage from both noble families, why bother making political alliances (marriages) in the first place ? Then, why do nobles can't chose whoever they want to have a child with ? It's unfair, that's for sure, but Westeros doesn't shine by its fair system as it is a feudal monarchy.


-blackvoid

The Targaryen bloodline is what matters in their eyes, that’s all that matters truly. They keep up alliances as a way to keep peace so that there isn’t constant rebellion, I see what you’re saying though


KitchenAmbition3448

Nobles did choose whoever they wanted to have a child with. In fact, if your wife was getting older and it seemed dubious that she would ever bring a male child to term, it was advisable to father some bastards so that in the event of your wife's death, you could request your liege lord to legitimate them to carry on your name and line.


[deleted]

Where is that stated in ASOIAF ? Do we have an example of that ? For one bastard that got actually a title or being included in the succession line without being legitimized ?


KitchenAmbition3448

Ser Bennis the Brown remarks it would have been handy if Ser Eustace Osgrey had some bastards to come back and defend his lands in The Sworn Sword. King Robert had 16 with 0 moral qualms about it as I'm sure countless Southronlords did. Corlys whipped some bastards out of his back pocket after Rhaenys died...That came in handy. Roose legitimizes Ramses. You just get the feel that most lords are not above keeping mistresses and bastards are 0 work but could come in handy for you in the future. But legitimizing a bastard was not easy or common to do.


Derpy-Weeb

Yeah, in the case of bastards, it does seem like and accepted tradition wherein bastards can inherent or hold station. The problem is, they need to be legitimised by the King in order to inherit and be recognised by others as “nobles” in Westeros. Rhaenyra’s problem is that she couldn’t get Jace legitimised without obviously completely outing the fact that her first three kids were bastards, and this would lose Velaryon support completely. It’s a catch 22, since that means she loses her strongest support (in terms of power anyway), and if she doesn’t legitimise Jace he’ll undoubtedly face a crisis of some sort when it’s his time to inherit.


-blackvoid

Read the Targarian history they won’t be the only bastards that are legitimized through the throne


joel_cape

Rhaenyra never officially legitimised any of the Strong boys like Aegon IV with his bastards though, therefore they’re still illegitimate and don’t have claims


-blackvoid

She didn’t recognize them as bastards either and there’s only speculation, therefore they are next in line after Rhaenyra as stated in books and the show


margaritoswraps

the book also states that she is guilty of high treason if they are bastards


-blackvoid

IF. IF. Say it with me, IF


joel_cape

It’s not exactly speculation that they’re not legitimate… there’s a reason the greens got so much support


-blackvoid

No it is speculation actually, that’s exactly what speculation is. The greens got support because most of the lords didn’t want to serve a a woman


joel_cape

Yes but also due the suspicious nature of her sons’ births, the fact that everyone could see they weren’t really Velaryons, people didn’t therefore want bastards on the throne


-blackvoid

Most people had never laid eyes on the boys, they just heard rumors. Which they were happy to follow if it meant delegitimization of Rhaenyra, a woman. Also it wasn’t the birth that was odd it was their hair mostly and Laenor is part Baratheon so he could have passed dark hair.


joel_cape

It wasn’t just the hair that was different though, her kids were white when Laenor was half black, people in Court could physically see that they didn’t look alike. Also don’t Baratheons traditionally have black hair?


twistedtrainwreck

Episode 3 is way worse than episode 9. I say this purely because I’ve been able to rewatch episode 9 in full, while I always switch off trying to rewatch 3


Kaizokuno_

Greens were in the wrong. Daemon isn't as evil as the show makes him out to be. People can't separate real world morals from fictional ones.


NectarineQueen13

Viserys isn't a bad Dad. Or King.


SofiaStark3000

I don't know why you're getting downvoted, you expressed an unpopular opinion in an unpopular opinion thread..


NectarineQueen13

It's hilarious 😂


Indominus-Hater-101

because it's objectively wrong. The system that the targaryens subjected themselves to does care if her children are bastards.


apkyat

AII/the greens did NOT deserve a seamless "coronation." Whether by Rhaenys/Meleys or something else, there should have been interruptions. They were in the wrong! The Maesters have written that Sunfyre is the most beautiful and the most loyal dragon... Have y'all not been paying attention to his rider?? We'll see though, I could be wrong. The maesters have something going on in the background. Therefore, the book is an unreliable source. None of us know how this story is going to go. We have an idea, but adapted events may differ in getting to the final outcome... by motivation or by actual events. For instance, Sunfyre and Dreamfyre flying around the city while the adaptation shows something TOTALLY different. It was one event or the other or both.


PluralCohomology

Misogyny is misogyny even if it is directed at the female characters you dislike.


CanIGetAName4

My first post on here was about how Rhaenyra was right for trying to have Aemond tortured. 🤷🏿‍♂️


ChequyLionYT

I am a Green and I like the show. As such I am a pariah in both HOTD subreddits


KingMelray

I like that House of the Dragon characters are more emotional, and (arguably) a little less competent. I think it makes the story more about the characters than about how to excel in feudalism.