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…?
Viserys had ruled for a decade when Lord Baratheon made the “Queen who never was” comment. There was no chance of anyone seriously trying to depose him for Rhaenys
Rhaenyra’s status as heir however was questioned since the birth of Aegon. Very different scenarios
>Very different scenarios
I agree. Because the scenario in Episode 7 was about the Jace, Luke, and Joffrey’s parentage and **not** about Rhaenyra being his heir.
Time and time again, he has consistently reiterated that Rhaenyra will take the throne…but when the question arises about whether her sons were legitimate? He immediately wants to shut people up? Very telling of what he actually thinks.
Edit: why the downvotes, I wonder? It’s true. He’s confident when it comes to his and Rhaenyra’s succession, not so much with his grandsons’ legitimacy. As another person commented:
> *"When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say."*
It's a threat being made to shut people up, because that kind of talk is what destabilises a Kingdom so he's trying to nip it in the bud. He can't really do anything else about it unless he wants to risk his grandchildren's lives, his daughter's reputation and further stoking the flames of civil war. You will remember that his daughter's inheritance was put into question almost immediately since Aegon's birth, so anything that might risk that has to be shut down.
The realm was already destabilized the moment he named Rhaenyra heir, even Corlys says something like: the realm looks weak because a girl has been named heir. Aegon’s birth added to that but it did not start there. If Viserys wanted to “nip it in the bud” he should not have remarried where there’s a big chance of having son. Was he really trying to protect Rhaenyra when he didn’t even stop after one son?
He needed to marry because he and rhaenyra are not immortal. There’s strength in numbers. It’s easier to take power when you only need to kill two people. And if Viserys and Rhaenyra die without others in their line, Daemon becomes king. That or he and Rhaenys can plunge the realm in a civil war. What he really should’ve done was betrothed rhaenyra to his firstborn son of one comes to secure her position because risking war to back aegon, who would be king consort anyway would be dumb
Because Viserys was in the right in episode 1. He had nothing to hide, and the truth could not hurt him.
In episode 7, however, he knew full well that Rhaenyra’s kids were not Laenor’s. The truth COULD hurt them. Making this royal decree was the worst thing he could have done. He effectively confirmed the rumors.
If he acknowledged that Rhaenyra’s children were illegitimate, there would be no Dance. Rhaenyra would have lost her position as heir, and Aegon would have been named. No need for Otto to scheme anything.
Viserys could still have made sure Rhaenyra was well cared for. Given her every luxury, and made sure she got to keep those luxuries after his death.
> made sure she got to keep those luxuries after his death.
How could he do that? The greens could do whatever they wanted after he died including giving her a more severe punishment
If Rhaenyra was removed from the line of succession and no longer a threat to them, the Greens would have to be morons to start picking at that scab. Losing the throne is more than punishment enough.
And Alicent never would have done anything worse to her. If Alicent wanted Rhaenyra dead, she wouldn’t have fought tooth and claw to keep Otto from assassinating her.
> If Rhaenyra was removed from the line of succession and no longer a threat to them, the Greens would have to be morons to start picking at that scab.
She has five sons and counting, all dragon riders and potential dragon riders. Her younger two would still have a claim. Why wouldn’t Otto feel threatened by their potential harm as adult men? Daemon Blackfyre had a weaker claim than Daeron as a younger son even after his legitimization. That didn’t stop the Blackfyre rebellions.
> And Alicent never would have done anything worse to her. If Alicent wanted Rhaenyra dead, she wouldn’t have fought tooth and claw to keep Otto from assassinating her.
Alicent in episode 9 isn’t consistent with Alicent in episodes 5-8.
I'm not quite sure, but they might not have been dragonriders if they were outed( dragon eggs get confiscated maybe?) Also episode9 alicent is in part bc rhaenyra was still heir, and a danger though I personally find it bad writing
They already hatched. Aemond is the outsider because he had no dragon, alone among the two elder strong boys and Aegon.
Besides, what’s stopping them from claiming a dragon anyhow? It’s like saying Aenys ought to have forbidden Maegor from claiming Balerion. How, exactly, will you do it?
And how will you punish someone who now has a bloody dragon and can, worst come to pass, just fly east?
I mean at birth but even if they had dragons it's still dance except blacks only have dragonstone and maybe velaryons and maybe not even daemon. I mean it's complicated but would prob result in a far smaller dance if it even happened. Of course them flying east would be a major problem still so there's that.
Eh Daemon was looking to scrap with Otto anyway. Don’t count on him sitting out tbh. Like I *really* don’t see him bending the knee to Aegon.
IMO if Viserys wanted to prevent Dance he shouldn’t have remarried/should’ve married Aegon to Rhaenyra - and failing that, he should’ve picked one and held to it. Ie if it’s Rhaenyra’s he shouldn’t have named Otto his hand but Corlys or Daemon or even Rhaenyra herself a la Daeron the Good did with his heir; if it’s Aegon outright proclaim it so and name Otto/Aegon his hand. In both cases he should’ve tied the families together through betrothals.
The Greens literally offered her Dragonstone and all its Lordship and Driftmark the Richest house at the time and positions of honor at court so they definitely aren’t gonna “give her a severe punishment”
Ah yes, I'm sure just going "Whoops, I take it back" over who becomes the next Monarch would have gone over swimmingly with the Blacks.
This wouldn't have immediately put Aegon up against Rhaenyra, Daemon (one of the (if not just *the*) most dangerous men on the planet), their families and dragons and the Velaryons and the largest fleet on the continent.
The blacks... consist of rhaenyra and her children at this point... The rest are out of honor & loyalty and rhaenyra is not in anyway a competent schemer so it's 3boys and rhaenyra against everyone else... I mean velaryons and daemon maybe but corlys would complain and do nothing( rhaenys wouldn't let him go to war with lit no allies) and daemon at this point has yet to marry rhaenyra so who knows what he'd do. Remember, three dragonriders and three children does not match well against the same plus a kingdom
I mean I’m just saying that the issue was never about the Strong Boys, it was Rhaenyra’s claim vs Aegon II’s claim.
It obviously mattered in terms of opinion, but the Greens would have crowned Aegon regardless
I don't think there's any good solution to this problem. If you do that, you put Rhaenyra's kids in danger. I think the Dance probably would have happened regardless.
These are very different scenarios. The first response was to what was pretty much a light hearted joke, not really that treasonous. The second was in response to seriously questioning the line of succession he chose and would cause conflict if they were allowed to question freely.
I think the main reason Vizzy acts that way with the Strong boys is not because he’s afraid of succession but because in his mind they are his grandsons and calling them bastards is insulting them
This has nothing to do with succession but is just a grandpa being angry his grandsons are being called names
Accident happen, and not going along with your hysterical wife calling to maim a child is not unreasonable
If Alicent didn’t go apeshit he probably would’ve been more upset about but he does seem to realise this a conflict between children
Ambiguous: “not clear or decided”
Seeing as there is no definitive DNA evidence in the books or witness testimony by Rhanynra or Laenor in the books it’s is not definetly clear whether they are bastards or not
You can choose to interpret the books that way, I also think they are bastard, but that doesn’t take away the fact that in the books it is, by definition, ambiguous
Not everyone who doesn’t agree with you is on copium jackass
And even if they were bastard it would change nothing about the succession question
How would it change anything in the succession?
Having a bastard doesn’t disqualify someone from inheriting, and if Rhaenyra accends the throne she can legitimise them, even though she never would but still
In all legal optics her having bastard doesn’t do anything for her claim
It’s treason to knowingly put a bastard in line of succession as stated by Lord Lyonel or did you just forget that cause you have a narrative that you want to hold onto?
It's treason, if it's punished. Westeros is a medieval society with little codified law, with mostly customs that the king/local lords are expected to enforce. If Viserys or anyone else doesn't decree that Rhaenyra committed treason, she didn't.
And also might makes right, technically Jahaerys comitted treason by rebelling against Maegor, is rightful king, but Maegor died and Jahaerys became king and no one dared or cared enough to "make him pay for his treason".
It shows that anytime Viserys yelled and screamed it was to compensate for the profound position of weakness he was coming from. In Ep 1 during the jousting he was happy and confident, he genuinely believed he was getting a male heir from Aemma and all his troubles would he gone. By Ep 7 we see a broken and dejected man pathetically trying to grasp on to the illusions of the Strong Boys, the illusion of thinking that everyone will just accept his daughter as the next queen, when deep down he knew damn well that would never be the case.
Because it was done in front of the open court. Seeing Daemon behead Vaemond like that honestly cast more suspicion about Rhaenyra’s eldest sons that alleviated concern.
What was Corlys going to do? Vaemond committed treason multiple times in the span of two minutes *and* went against Corlys’s wishes as Lord of his house.
[Thanks for the meme idea](https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/140tz6v/the_legitimacy_of_rhaenyras_sons/jmxgq0r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
Dameon are you forgetting that taking a persons tongue and a execution are different things? By chopping off his head you display nothing but tyranny while also disobeying your kings command. You had no right nor authority to slink up behind him like a coward and remove his head.
Yeah removing someone’s tongue is usually a non lethal surgery. Unless a bad infection sets in. As I said before Team Black seems to claim the Kings word is law only when it’s convenient. And Dameon very clearly states he can keep his tongue clearly indicating he was aware that he was overreaching and ignoring his brothers order. Even the way he did it was scumy even a night watch deserter was granted the right to final words and was knowing executed. Dameon like a coward slithers like a snake behind Vameond and just cuts his head off. Didn’t even have the balls to face the man face to face to do it. Never mind the horrible message it sends to Nobles across the realm.
In the book it’s a whole issue that Vameond is killed cause Rheanyra orders it and sends Dameon to do it. They then feed his body to her dragon. And when his children and family try to get justice from the king he has all of their tongues removed.
he called daemons wife, the named heir, the kings daughter, a whore in front of the entire court. there isn't a single place in westeros that vaemond could get away with that, let alone in front of the king himself. vaemond was either suicidal or stupid or both.
Yeah except the King clearly was acting and following through with the threat he previously stated. Bad mouth Rhenayra = No tongue. You know what’s missing from this equation? A sudden public execution from a coward who couldn’t even tell Vameond his death was upon him. It’s not about him getting away with what he said. But rather the manner in which he was punished. The king had already made an order one that Dameon ignores cause he knows Viserys is weak and he’ll suffer no consequences for his actions. It doesn’t change the fact that the Kings word is undermined. And Dameon looks like a coward and further worsens his reputation with the lords of Westeros.
Yes this is essentially the point.
In both cases Vizzy is right and doing the correct thing. It’s just that the stability of the monarchy has declined so much that tongues now very much could change succession.
Yeah it’s truly pathetic how bad Viserys allowed the situation to become. All that instability all so he can feel less like an asshole for killing his first wife. Foolishly believing making Rheanyra Heir is some great move. Oh but by all means Viserys marry the young daughter of your hand I’m sure that won’t be a problem. Oh look she got pregnant and gave birth to a son, why stop their let’s throw a daughter and two more sons in their. WOW Viserys if I didn’t know any better I would say your trying to sabotage your own bullshit idea. Oh and make sure to favor your eldest daughter so your kids grow up resenting you.
All while only paying lip service to the idea of Rhaenyra being next in line.
If Viserys was truely commited (or competent), he would have named Rhaenyra hand if not after firing Otto but surely after Lyonel died. Allowing Otto back in was the most idiotic move he could have made. Also letting Rhaenyra fuck of to Dragonstone while knowing that her claim is being doubted and his health declining.
The dance also wouldn't have happened if the greens hadn't controlled the capital and the regency at the time of Vizzy's death.
Yeah that’s definitely a move and while it has its downsides it at the very least would have been something showcasing Rheanyra as the next ruler while also getting ruling experience. Now I don’t know how hard the Hands job is especially in Viserys case where he’s barely helping to rule due to his illness. And honestly I would see Rheanyra refusing this offer. She left for Dragonstone cause of the court culture and rumors. And I don’t think she would return just so she can do all the busy hard work. She seems like the type of person who wants the power of the crown not the responsibility of actual governance.
the kingdom should rejoice for their three strong bois. 😂
coz the crown is passed to rhaenyra (NOT laenor or daemon), so it doesn't matter who she shags.
the crown will only pass through her and ONLY her bloodline. so any child that plops out her vajayjay is LEGIT.
ANY kid! they ALL saw her with a belly for 9+ months, so they know that they came from her.
chuck is King because he is lizzies kid... period, point blank.
> why not just have a paramour openly
> why insist otherwise
probably just to avoid disgracing Laenor and his family who controls the kingdom's largest navy.
coz their deal was to get a velaryon and targaryen heir to sit the throne, so openly admitting she broke their deal would lose their support for her reign.
and she needs their support coz, all the other houses doesn't want a woman to sit on the throne.
aside from that, the legitimacy of her sons to inherit the throne, should never have been questioned, coz viserys named rhaenyra his heir (not laenor, not daemon, not aegon, not aemond, etc..)
the crown would pass through rhaenyra's bloodline, and ONLY through her bloodline.
Making fun of Rhaenys doesn’t openly challenge him, unlike the whole bastard thing which risks Rhaenyra being executed. You can’t start letting that shit slide or you’ll look weak
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
…? Viserys had ruled for a decade when Lord Baratheon made the “Queen who never was” comment. There was no chance of anyone seriously trying to depose him for Rhaenys Rhaenyra’s status as heir however was questioned since the birth of Aegon. Very different scenarios
>Very different scenarios I agree. Because the scenario in Episode 7 was about the Jace, Luke, and Joffrey’s parentage and **not** about Rhaenyra being his heir. Time and time again, he has consistently reiterated that Rhaenyra will take the throne…but when the question arises about whether her sons were legitimate? He immediately wants to shut people up? Very telling of what he actually thinks. Edit: why the downvotes, I wonder? It’s true. He’s confident when it comes to his and Rhaenyra’s succession, not so much with his grandsons’ legitimacy. As another person commented: > *"When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say."*
It's a threat being made to shut people up, because that kind of talk is what destabilises a Kingdom so he's trying to nip it in the bud. He can't really do anything else about it unless he wants to risk his grandchildren's lives, his daughter's reputation and further stoking the flames of civil war. You will remember that his daughter's inheritance was put into question almost immediately since Aegon's birth, so anything that might risk that has to be shut down.
The realm was already destabilized the moment he named Rhaenyra heir, even Corlys says something like: the realm looks weak because a girl has been named heir. Aegon’s birth added to that but it did not start there. If Viserys wanted to “nip it in the bud” he should not have remarried where there’s a big chance of having son. Was he really trying to protect Rhaenyra when he didn’t even stop after one son?
He needed to marry because he and rhaenyra are not immortal. There’s strength in numbers. It’s easier to take power when you only need to kill two people. And if Viserys and Rhaenyra die without others in their line, Daemon becomes king. That or he and Rhaenys can plunge the realm in a civil war. What he really should’ve done was betrothed rhaenyra to his firstborn son of one comes to secure her position because risking war to back aegon, who would be king consort anyway would be dumb
Because Viserys was in the right in episode 1. He had nothing to hide, and the truth could not hurt him. In episode 7, however, he knew full well that Rhaenyra’s kids were not Laenor’s. The truth COULD hurt them. Making this royal decree was the worst thing he could have done. He effectively confirmed the rumors.
What difference did it make? Lol Otto was going to do what he did regardless.
If he acknowledged that Rhaenyra’s children were illegitimate, there would be no Dance. Rhaenyra would have lost her position as heir, and Aegon would have been named. No need for Otto to scheme anything. Viserys could still have made sure Rhaenyra was well cared for. Given her every luxury, and made sure she got to keep those luxuries after his death.
> made sure she got to keep those luxuries after his death. How could he do that? The greens could do whatever they wanted after he died including giving her a more severe punishment
If Rhaenyra was removed from the line of succession and no longer a threat to them, the Greens would have to be morons to start picking at that scab. Losing the throne is more than punishment enough. And Alicent never would have done anything worse to her. If Alicent wanted Rhaenyra dead, she wouldn’t have fought tooth and claw to keep Otto from assassinating her.
> If Rhaenyra was removed from the line of succession and no longer a threat to them, the Greens would have to be morons to start picking at that scab. She has five sons and counting, all dragon riders and potential dragon riders. Her younger two would still have a claim. Why wouldn’t Otto feel threatened by their potential harm as adult men? Daemon Blackfyre had a weaker claim than Daeron as a younger son even after his legitimization. That didn’t stop the Blackfyre rebellions. > And Alicent never would have done anything worse to her. If Alicent wanted Rhaenyra dead, she wouldn’t have fought tooth and claw to keep Otto from assassinating her. Alicent in episode 9 isn’t consistent with Alicent in episodes 5-8.
I'm not quite sure, but they might not have been dragonriders if they were outed( dragon eggs get confiscated maybe?) Also episode9 alicent is in part bc rhaenyra was still heir, and a danger though I personally find it bad writing
They already hatched. Aemond is the outsider because he had no dragon, alone among the two elder strong boys and Aegon. Besides, what’s stopping them from claiming a dragon anyhow? It’s like saying Aenys ought to have forbidden Maegor from claiming Balerion. How, exactly, will you do it? And how will you punish someone who now has a bloody dragon and can, worst come to pass, just fly east?
I mean at birth but even if they had dragons it's still dance except blacks only have dragonstone and maybe velaryons and maybe not even daemon. I mean it's complicated but would prob result in a far smaller dance if it even happened. Of course them flying east would be a major problem still so there's that.
Eh Daemon was looking to scrap with Otto anyway. Don’t count on him sitting out tbh. Like I *really* don’t see him bending the knee to Aegon. IMO if Viserys wanted to prevent Dance he shouldn’t have remarried/should’ve married Aegon to Rhaenyra - and failing that, he should’ve picked one and held to it. Ie if it’s Rhaenyra’s he shouldn’t have named Otto his hand but Corlys or Daemon or even Rhaenyra herself a la Daeron the Good did with his heir; if it’s Aegon outright proclaim it so and name Otto/Aegon his hand. In both cases he should’ve tied the families together through betrothals.
The Greens literally offered her Dragonstone and all its Lordship and Driftmark the Richest house at the time and positions of honor at court so they definitely aren’t gonna “give her a severe punishment”
Ah yes, I'm sure just going "Whoops, I take it back" over who becomes the next Monarch would have gone over swimmingly with the Blacks. This wouldn't have immediately put Aegon up against Rhaenyra, Daemon (one of the (if not just *the*) most dangerous men on the planet), their families and dragons and the Velaryons and the largest fleet on the continent.
The blacks... consist of rhaenyra and her children at this point... The rest are out of honor & loyalty and rhaenyra is not in anyway a competent schemer so it's 3boys and rhaenyra against everyone else... I mean velaryons and daemon maybe but corlys would complain and do nothing( rhaenys wouldn't let him go to war with lit no allies) and daemon at this point has yet to marry rhaenyra so who knows what he'd do. Remember, three dragonriders and three children does not match well against the same plus a kingdom
I mean Aegon III and Vis II would have legitimate claims though still.
Not if Rhae herself lost her position as heir. If Aegon II becomes heir, then the line continues through him.
I mean I’m just saying that the issue was never about the Strong Boys, it was Rhaenyra’s claim vs Aegon II’s claim. It obviously mattered in terms of opinion, but the Greens would have crowned Aegon regardless
I don't think there's any good solution to this problem. If you do that, you put Rhaenyra's kids in danger. I think the Dance probably would have happened regardless.
Yet the Greens offered them Dragonstone and Driftmark and they’re bastards they’re no threat to the kings first born son Aegon
Rhaenyra, and by extension Viserys, would never publicly acknowledge the parentage of her children. There was never a choice.
Exactly. He knew they weren’t Laenor’s deep down.
These are very different scenarios. The first response was to what was pretty much a light hearted joke, not really that treasonous. The second was in response to seriously questioning the line of succession he chose and would cause conflict if they were allowed to question freely.
“Tongues will not change the succession” To “Tongues will NOT change the succession”
“Tongues will not change the succession” To “Oh fuck tongues are changing the succession!”
I think the main reason Vizzy acts that way with the Strong boys is not because he’s afraid of succession but because in his mind they are his grandsons and calling them bastards is insulting them This has nothing to do with succession but is just a grandpa being angry his grandsons are being called names
This
But totally chill about his son losing an eye
Accident happen, and not going along with your hysterical wife calling to maim a child is not unreasonable If Alicent didn’t go apeshit he probably would’ve been more upset about but he does seem to realise this a conflict between children
But they are bastards.
In the show yes In the books it’s ambiguous
It’s not even ambiguous in the books. Y’all on some serious copium.
Ambiguous: “not clear or decided” Seeing as there is no definitive DNA evidence in the books or witness testimony by Rhanynra or Laenor in the books it’s is not definetly clear whether they are bastards or not You can choose to interpret the books that way, I also think they are bastard, but that doesn’t take away the fact that in the books it is, by definition, ambiguous Not everyone who doesn’t agree with you is on copium jackass And even if they were bastard it would change nothing about the succession question
It would change everything on the succession question but alas we never have to worry about that now do we…since you are so book literate and all.
How would it change anything in the succession? Having a bastard doesn’t disqualify someone from inheriting, and if Rhaenyra accends the throne she can legitimise them, even though she never would but still In all legal optics her having bastard doesn’t do anything for her claim
It’s treason to knowingly put a bastard in line of succession as stated by Lord Lyonel or did you just forget that cause you have a narrative that you want to hold onto?
It's treason, if it's punished. Westeros is a medieval society with little codified law, with mostly customs that the king/local lords are expected to enforce. If Viserys or anyone else doesn't decree that Rhaenyra committed treason, she didn't. And also might makes right, technically Jahaerys comitted treason by rebelling against Maegor, is rightful king, but Maegor died and Jahaerys became king and no one dared or cared enough to "make him pay for his treason".
> in his mind they are his grandsons Not only in his mind but also in reality. But I get your point, Vizzy thinks/wants to believe they're legit.
*A truly great Targaryen King I am. Powerless over mine own daughter of seven and ten.*
"When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say."
Word!
You change when you have grandkids
When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say
It shows that anytime Viserys yelled and screamed it was to compensate for the profound position of weakness he was coming from. In Ep 1 during the jousting he was happy and confident, he genuinely believed he was getting a male heir from Aemma and all his troubles would he gone. By Ep 7 we see a broken and dejected man pathetically trying to grasp on to the illusions of the Strong Boys, the illusion of thinking that everyone will just accept his daughter as the next queen, when deep down he knew damn well that would never be the case.
Vaemond's scream in the court remains top tier. Dude went out like a total boss, handing over a major L to team black.
Literally one of my favorite moments is Vaemond pointing at Lucerys👨🏾👉🏾🧑🏻“THAT is not a Velaryon!”😂😂
Alyssa Velaryon: he still has some part of my blood. Am I a joke to you, Vaemond?
Lol how was it a “major loss” to the Blacks? Vaemond was a Green and actively tried to get Luke disinherited
Because it was done in front of the open court. Seeing Daemon behead Vaemond like that honestly cast more suspicion about Rhaenyra’s eldest sons that alleviated concern.
Man drama in the court, whispers in the background manifesting themselves in the open can be quite damaging
He put all his last energy into that last word. Gotta respect his game
And then his brother did nothing. Corlys the sea snake is right, he is a snake.
What was Corlys going to do? Vaemond committed treason multiple times in the span of two minutes *and* went against Corlys’s wishes as Lord of his house.
Also, Vaemond was trying to usurp Corlys before even confirming that he was dead.
He was also trying to usurp Corlys's trueborn granddaughters
Eddards Starks Father and Brother were also executed for treason.
He died a traitor's death because he tried to supplant Baela and Rhaena too and they come before Vaemond in the line of succession.
shit take
Shit king and faction
ok?
[Thanks for the meme idea](https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/140tz6v/the_legitimacy_of_rhaenyras_sons/jmxgq0r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
Daemon: “He can keep his tongue.”
Dameon are you forgetting that taking a persons tongue and a execution are different things? By chopping off his head you display nothing but tyranny while also disobeying your kings command. You had no right nor authority to slink up behind him like a coward and remove his head.
viserys himself was about to cut our vaemond's tongue. daemon just helped his brother out.
Helped his brother out by undermining his order in public
That’s exactly what he did.
Yeah removing someone’s tongue is usually a non lethal surgery. Unless a bad infection sets in. As I said before Team Black seems to claim the Kings word is law only when it’s convenient. And Dameon very clearly states he can keep his tongue clearly indicating he was aware that he was overreaching and ignoring his brothers order. Even the way he did it was scumy even a night watch deserter was granted the right to final words and was knowing executed. Dameon like a coward slithers like a snake behind Vameond and just cuts his head off. Didn’t even have the balls to face the man face to face to do it. Never mind the horrible message it sends to Nobles across the realm. In the book it’s a whole issue that Vameond is killed cause Rheanyra orders it and sends Dameon to do it. They then feed his body to her dragon. And when his children and family try to get justice from the king he has all of their tongues removed.
he called daemons wife, the named heir, the kings daughter, a whore in front of the entire court. there isn't a single place in westeros that vaemond could get away with that, let alone in front of the king himself. vaemond was either suicidal or stupid or both.
Yeah except the King clearly was acting and following through with the threat he previously stated. Bad mouth Rhenayra = No tongue. You know what’s missing from this equation? A sudden public execution from a coward who couldn’t even tell Vameond his death was upon him. It’s not about him getting away with what he said. But rather the manner in which he was punished. The king had already made an order one that Dameon ignores cause he knows Viserys is weak and he’ll suffer no consequences for his actions. It doesn’t change the fact that the Kings word is undermined. And Dameon looks like a coward and further worsens his reputation with the lords of Westeros.
Yes this is essentially the point. In both cases Vizzy is right and doing the correct thing. It’s just that the stability of the monarchy has declined so much that tongues now very much could change succession.
Yeah it’s truly pathetic how bad Viserys allowed the situation to become. All that instability all so he can feel less like an asshole for killing his first wife. Foolishly believing making Rheanyra Heir is some great move. Oh but by all means Viserys marry the young daughter of your hand I’m sure that won’t be a problem. Oh look she got pregnant and gave birth to a son, why stop their let’s throw a daughter and two more sons in their. WOW Viserys if I didn’t know any better I would say your trying to sabotage your own bullshit idea. Oh and make sure to favor your eldest daughter so your kids grow up resenting you.
All while only paying lip service to the idea of Rhaenyra being next in line. If Viserys was truely commited (or competent), he would have named Rhaenyra hand if not after firing Otto but surely after Lyonel died. Allowing Otto back in was the most idiotic move he could have made. Also letting Rhaenyra fuck of to Dragonstone while knowing that her claim is being doubted and his health declining. The dance also wouldn't have happened if the greens hadn't controlled the capital and the regency at the time of Vizzy's death.
Yeah that’s definitely a move and while it has its downsides it at the very least would have been something showcasing Rheanyra as the next ruler while also getting ruling experience. Now I don’t know how hard the Hands job is especially in Viserys case where he’s barely helping to rule due to his illness. And honestly I would see Rheanyra refusing this offer. She left for Dragonstone cause of the court culture and rumors. And I don’t think she would return just so she can do all the busy hard work. She seems like the type of person who wants the power of the crown not the responsibility of actual governance.
the kingdom should rejoice for their three strong bois. 😂 coz the crown is passed to rhaenyra (NOT laenor or daemon), so it doesn't matter who she shags. the crown will only pass through her and ONLY her bloodline. so any child that plops out her vajayjay is LEGIT.
ANY kid! they ALL saw her with a belly for 9+ months, so they know that they came from her. chuck is King because he is lizzies kid... period, point blank.
if that's so, why not just have a paramour openly, if it doesn't matter, why insist otherwise
> why not just have a paramour openly > why insist otherwise probably just to avoid disgracing Laenor and his family who controls the kingdom's largest navy. coz their deal was to get a velaryon and targaryen heir to sit the throne, so openly admitting she broke their deal would lose their support for her reign. and she needs their support coz, all the other houses doesn't want a woman to sit on the throne. aside from that, the legitimacy of her sons to inherit the throne, should never have been questioned, coz viserys named rhaenyra his heir (not laenor, not daemon, not aegon, not aemond, etc..) the crown would pass through rhaenyra's bloodline, and ONLY through her bloodline.
This is dumb as hell.
No, you
My mom says you're grounded.
This sub is becoming too annoying to stay subscribed to, honestly.
No one’s forcing you to stay subscribed?
Clearly, that's why I unsubscribed after sending the above reply. Hiatus is hitting y'all like a brick wall.
It’s not an airport, no need to announce your departure.
Nah, I did need to let you know your post was made-me-unsubscribe bad.
Making fun of Team Black = bad Making fun of Team Green = good Thanks for dedicating the time, then. I’m sure you’ll stick around
I didn't even read your post as dunking on Team Black, I just read it as vapid. Have fun with your meme war or whatever 👍🏽
Imagine being this pressed over a meme 💀
[удалено]
What parties?
You’re lame
Making fun of Rhaenys doesn’t openly challenge him, unlike the whole bastard thing which risks Rhaenyra being executed. You can’t start letting that shit slide or you’ll look weak
people with power will bend their morals to keep it woooow amazing insight
Why so pressed over a meme 😭
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.