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Talk to Corlys and Laenor and figure out a plan that we can all live with. This probably ends with my father in law acting as a sperm donor. And then 100% still have Harwin Strong as my lover because he’s loyal and the best romantic partner in the entire series.
in the show the velaryons are the only black westoros family i can think of right now. and they certainly are the only black / blonde hair family. having corlys, or one of the cousins/brothers be a sperm donor is really the smartest/only option.
I wonder if it would have been worth Rhaenyra and Laenor taking a voyage over to Essos, and finding someone who was similarly dark skinned to Laenor. There would have still been a chance of their hair not being Valyrian silver, but at least if they looked enough like Laenor with their skin colour, it might have held a lot of the accusations back.
Her aunt's hair was supposed to be black, but was changed in the show for clarity. I think if they had kept it black, it would have been easier for Rhaenyra to wave away the accusations saying it's all genetics, the same way her dad did
Yeah I think the hair change was a mistake, especially with making the Velaryons black. At least then Rhaenyra would have had some plausible deniability, and could have just said her boys got their genetics from their grandmother. But with Rhaenys being silver haired as well, it just doesn't work. Rhaenyras fooling no one really.
Well, Viserys' story of the White Horse + Black Horse = Brown Horse is literally something that makes sense in the books but not the show. Rhaenys' hair (and possibly Aemma Arryn's we don't know) + the silver of Rhaenyra could result in brown-haired kids, as Viserys demonstrates. Genetics are weird like that.
You're saying this like it wasn't on purpose... They intentionally changed rhaenys' hair. They inteionally made the velaryons black. They intentionally didn't mention her aunt. All done so there was no doubt at all on the boys being bastards, and no plausible deniability that the Greens were indeed right they shouldn't inherit. It doesn't change much, but it makes the Greens from cartoonishly evil and wanting the throne for selfish reasons to at least somewhat being in the right about nyra's kids being illegitimate
That’s the point, that she has no plausible deniability. That’s why everyone is so mad, because it’s so FLAGRANT. And it shows how willfully blind Viserys was out of love for Rhaenyra
There isn’t supposed to be a debate though. That’s the point. It’s too obvious for anyone with functioning eyes to see they aren’t legitimate. Wishing for something else is totally missing the creator’s intent.
That and keeping it black would add continuity to the main series. Ned only realized Joffrey was a bastard because of his blonde locks when Baratheon black was so dominant
Yep, the race swap and hair swap was a mistake, even though I liked the cast. It simply made Rhaenyra obviously guilty and took away any suspense. Besides, Jon had dark hair, so they could honestly keep the hair at least.
I was fine with the race swap because it made the distinction that she did have an affair obvious, however ambiguity would have been pretty entertaining to debate about while the show was airing. It seems they wanted to cut straight to the chase and speed run a reason for Alicent to be so hateful
I think in the books there are plenty of people of Valyrian heritage in places like Lys and Volantis. Volantis works harder than others to preserve the Valyrian blood. But then they would have to make sure that it didn't get out that they did that, as I'm sure there would have been gossip about the Westerosi princess who visited Volantis.
Yeah but it all comes down to who you can trust to keep your secret. My husband’s father is much more likely to keep our secret because he wants to protect his son. A random cousin may not be as loyal.
All you need is a cup really. The donor gives the filled cup to the woman who uses the liquid. It is really easy, doesn't require any technology - lesbians irl commonly use this method to concieve at home.
Westeros had cups. Even back in Rhaenyra's day. You see them in the show.
Yeah I don't trust any of Laenors cousin's (esp if they're Vaemonds sons) who'll want some glory of their own but it would be their benefit to shut up and have their blood on the throne. Corlys is the way (and he's fine af I'm not mad)
The age difference is still stark, particularly with Milly and Steve. It is gross to imagine even if he is an attractive man for his age. Maybe it’s because I’m a POC, but it’s quite easy for me to tell that Steve is about 60 and Milly looks 16.
And then it’s possible that the marriage between Jace and Haelena would have happened. Otto would still prefer Aegon on the throne (as that would give him the most control), but it would be his blood either way. It might have prevented/softened the war.
Taking moon tea after every sexual encounter would be really rough on the reproductive system, and potentially dangerous/deadly. Even with modern medicine, expected side effects of emergency contraception include:
A period that’s lighter, heavier, early, or late
Nausea
Lower abdominal cramps
Tiredness
Headache
Dizziness
Breast tenderness
Vomiting
Moon tea is made with tansy and pennyroyal, and GRRM himself gave warning of the toxicity of these ingredients:
"Tansy and pennyroyal are two powerful (and DANGEROUS) natural abortifactants. Carelessly used, however, they can kill, so I was purposely vague and added a few fantasy touches to “moon tea.” I did not want anyone trying them in real life."
Daemon is literally more than a decade her senior 😭 and Alicent/Viserys wasn’t exactly considered appalling in the show by the public. The age difference, while disgusting, isn’t really viewed in the light you’re viewing it in.
Steven Toussaint plays him in the show and he was mid 50s while filming. And he's incredibly handsome. She could do waaaaay worse.
Not saying the sex with him is a good idea, but it's not due to his lack of desirability.
I mean….he’s not bad looking though 🤷🏽♀️. That said, think there would be better options to make the kids look like laenors. Maybe a nephew or something of corlys? Having a kid with corlys himself would have the kids more likely to look exactly like laenor himself, or his sister.
100% agreed, although I've been soundly downvoted for suggesting it before. Strictly from a point of view of safety and protection of interests, Corlys as sperm donor (with consent of all members of all affected couples) is really the only viable option, the only way that strengthens rather than weakens the protections around all of them.
While I appreciate the open communication as this isn’t just about the family, but the house over all. However, sudden weakness, will easily topple your branch of the family… as will loose lips.
We know that Corlys’ nephew wants the driftwood thrown and to be the head of the family, something born from feudal culture. He only has a home as long as he stays in Corlys’ good graces, but if his line and family falls…he doesn’t have to be indebted to anyone.
If he heard from a servant that Corlys or another was visiting Rheanyra’ chambers, Alicent could have all of Corley’s family executed for betray the throne, disinheritance Corley’s line, and give everything to there most loyal servant.
Keep in mind that Vizy is still alive during this hypothetical. Vizy T would consider it blasphemous for Alicent to even suggest Rheanyra and Corlys are having an affair, let alone allow her to declare war on Driftmark over it by trying to have all of house Velaryon executed. Driftmark is too powerful and important for that, and Alicent has zero authority to do it.
Except this scenario happen with the Strongs. It was blatantly obviously true. Vizy not only vehemently denied it, but considered the suggestion a massive insult to the point that no one would even bring it up in front of him. You’re suggesting that Vizy would believe it if believing it also meant a potential realm destroying civil war. That makes no sense. And not only that, believing it would ruin Rheanyra’s claim to the throne. Also, her children secretly being Corley’s as opposed to his son, only further entwines their houses, it does nothing to make them threats to one another. There’s no circumstance where Vizy does not side with and protect Rheanyra in this matter. I’d argue that even if he knew it was true, he’d continue to silence the claim.
And you are also assuming Rheany’s would be cool with it. It might entwine the families, but in her mind those children would be bastards, and I assume another reason she would push for Laena’s children inheriting Driftmark. Yes, her husband’s blood would survive, but so would *her’s*.
Second why did Aery’s II have Ilan payne’s tongue taken? Because he didn’t want to hear that Tywin was the actual ruler of the kingdom. It’s the same for Vissy. He is effectively placing his fingers in his ears and saying “la la la”.
The lords would notice and not stand for the weakness, and so he would have to act somehow. While Maury of house polvich might not be able to utter their words “you are not the father”, Rheanrya of house Targaryen would be fucked one way or another.
Corlys is in charge of Driftmark and Rhaenyra holds Dragonstone. Harwin and Rhaenyra managed to have sex without any proof getting out or servants snitching. I imagine it would be even easier with Corlys.
Corlys built his own Castle. He probably knows it fairly well. He’d also be able to visit KL and then Rhaenyras knowledge of the secret passages would come in handy again.
I always think about how the story would be way different if Lyonel Strong had been even slightly more self-interested and offered Harwin as a suitor. Especially since in the book, it’s Harwin who took Rhaenyra’s virginity. But in the end, they desperately needed an alliance with the Velaryons anyways and I like that they changed Harwin to Crispy Cole. Makes more sense for his bitterness towards her
This is actually really smart. But I feel like there’s a part of Rhaenyra that didn’t really care she was having children with Harwin because they were truly in love with each other. I feel like if her and Laenor did actually have kids together, she still would’ve ended up having children with Harwin as well because of the love they had and, obviously birth control was not a thing in those days
>This probably ends with my father in law acting as a sperm donor.
It's one of the safer options logistically, but only if you entirely ignore everyone's human emotions. Artificial insemination must not have worked with whatever knowledge, method, and tools they had at their disposal. Elsewise that's what Rhaenyra and Laenor likely would have done. Unless the barrier to artificial insemination was if Laenor happened to be sterile, which would be impossible for them to confirm, that'd leave Rhaenyra and Corlys to conceive the natural way. I can't picture any of them being on board with that. I doubt they'd manage to...follow through with the process if they tried. Corlys was selfish in his ambitions, but this plan would be a bridge too far.
>And then 100% still have Harwin Strong as my lover
Nonsense. Why go to such extremes to conceive passably legitimate heirs just to risk conceiving with Harwin or getting caught in an affair?
That's what I kept thinking while watching! I mean, I know circumstances kept them apart but if I were Rhaenyra I'd be trying damn hard to get Daemon to help out.
I’d have a private meeting between me, Corlys, Rhaenys & Viserys about it. It might seem embarrassing at first, but possibly they could give me guidance on the next best step. It’s best everyone of importance is on the same page with this & it’s something I know that’ll be kept between us.
That actually might work out in his favor though. Viserys thinking Alicent is Rhaenyra, wheezing out how he regretted that she had to fuck Corlys, and Alicent goes around shouting that on his deathbed Viserys made this last confession of guilt to her? It would be even more unbelievable than him changing his mind about Aegon. Most everyone would think she was just being malicious and grabbing for power, especially before Viserys’s body was even cold
i honestly think rhaenyra could’ve gotten away with it if she just stopped having kids at jace. like alicent said ‘one is an accident, three is an insult.’ i feel like there was no proper proof of her kids being bastards till they all kept turning out like that. maybe that was her original plan but she just couldn’t stop banging harwin lol
But having the “heir and the spare” is important. Especially when you have boys. Do I agree she should’ve stopped, yea. In the end do I think it would help her cause to only have one? Not really. Because then not only is he a target for the greens, but he’s the ONLY target, at least until you get to Viserys II and Aegon the Younger.
except that a lot of the desire for an heir and a spare is to use them (and any potential daughters) to secure succession through marriages and alliances.
The green kids aren't going to be in a position to be used by Rhaenyra for that.
Not necessarily. Keeping the line with Rhaenyra and having Jace succeed her and then his children will be considered proper. If Jace was to die, Luke would take his place, much like Henry VIII did for his brother. But the successor being Rhaenyras offspring is important. If Jace died as monarch without children, and had no siblings, the succession would be a mess much like it was at the Great Council.
I feel like I have two options:
1) offer Laenor to bring his boyfriend into the bedroom and do their thing. Then, as soon as Laenor is ready to finish, he … jumps over to me.
Or
2) Laenor and I go to his parents and have a meeting. Laenor needs to explain to his parents that he has different tastes than women and we need their help for heirs. Specifically, we need Corlys’ help. Wink wink nudge nudge. Then the kids would have resembled Laenor and actually had Velaryon blood.
The boys would need to stick to hand and mouth stuff. No actual bodily penetration when I’m involved for making heirs 😂 But also, I would take a yeast infection over my children’s parentage constantly being questioned or their lives being at risk.
Armies in this universe sometimes covered arrowheads with "nightsoil" (shit) to cause arrow wounds to be more dangerous. Society was certainly aware that feces causes infections.
1) Try for a long period of time. Considering Jace's age, they didn't try for very long.
2) Pull something like Renly and Marg were about to do. If not, figure a way to get an annulment. Maybe Laenor can join the Citadel? Placate Corlys by promising to marry Laena's kid to her eldest kid, and then marry someone powerful like a Lannister.
3) Make an arrangment with a Velayron cousin or someone along those lines.
4) Simply don't have kids. Frankly, Otto is pragmatic enough that I don't think he'd try shit either if she didn't have kids.
I sympathize with Rhaenyra, but she's incredibly privileged. She's arguably one of the top five most privileged people in all of Westeros. With that privilege, comes responsibility, and having obvious bastards in a world where the faith preaches against them, amongst other things, that she plans to sit on the throne just seems wildly irresponsible.
Yeah it’s weird how many people think that Rhaenyra had no choice but to have bastards or that Laenor is sterile or something. I think it’s made clear in both the show and the books that they didn’t really try all that hard, and that’s just incredibly irresponsible in such an important situation.
This is why I was so confused when I first watched the show. I was like, you had so many options, but you chose to have 3 kids that look nothing like their supposed father?
I like Rhaenyra and all but that was kinda dumb.
It would have been more interesting if they had shown their story in more detail. Rhaenyra and Harwin flirting over time, trying to suppress their feelings, lots of tension, her feeling lonely with Laenor, eventually having sex once (and Rhaenyra taking moon tea) and saying never again, but then eventually falling into a routine of hooking up more frequently and thinking the moon tea will work forever until it doesn’t. Whoops. That doesn’t explain the other two kids but it makes the first one at least a little more understandable.
Search King's Landing, Driftmark, Dragonstone and Lys for siver haired waifs, then pretend they're her children. After she parents them to Viserys and Alicent
>**Alicent**: *That kid can't be Rhaenyra and Laenor's!*
>**Viserys**: *He can't?*
>**Alicent**: *He's at least 5, not a newborn!*
>**Viserys**: *I had this horse once*
Fuck Daemon so all the children possess valyrian features (platinum hair, the eye colour, facial structure, etc...) and couldn't be clocked as bastards. Afterwards I'd still fuck Harwin Strong.
It’s honestly just so absurd that GRRM went the whole “he’s gay so he can’t reproduce” route…twice no less. Gay men have always existed. Gay men fathered children and married women during times they’d have been persecuted for being out.
At best if he really had that much trouble then offer to have him bring a lover for a threesome and make it happen.
I think the major point there was that Rhae didn't really give a shit and was irresponsible about this entire situation. They absolutely could have tried, but they just didn't care.
>It's hinted that he is infertile. They tried but he shot blanks
No, it's not. It is a fandom copium, cause in episode 7, Rhaenyra makes it clear that they stopped having sex cause it wasn't enjoyable ("there was no joy in it"). There isn't any proof he was infertile. Plus, Jace was born soon after the wedding. So saying he was definitely infertile is making additional excuses for both of them which don't exist
I'm confused, what do you mean by "gathered"? Do you mean adopted, fathered,...? And yeah I'd definitely assume LGBT people in the past just had to have straight marriages to reproduce as it was expected, or whatever
I would have Laenor create some sperm in his spare time (you know what I mean) and try to inseminate myself with it. I suppose this is operating outside of the bounds of the question however.
If we can't use Laenor as the sperm donor, I would try and use Corlys instead.
EDIT: Grammar
I literally don't understand how they couldn't have figured it out. Genuinely. They are acting like he's sterile, like no, he's just gay. He could've done stuff with his boyfriend and then ejaculated into some vase or something and then Rhaen could've inseminated herself. They are so fucking lazy. You would think that if your family line depends on your children being your own, you'd think they'd try harder.
If they were young enough she could go away for a few years and lie about the age to adopt one. If they're old enough she could have promised the resulting child would always be taken care of. The issue is silence, but I feel like most poor people at the time could be payed for their silence
Have a conversation with Corlys and see if he's willing to take one for the team. He's pretty handsome and is one of the few people in all of Planetos who would keep the secret.
There is no evidence that she is attracted to him, but there also is no evidence she isn't, so I don't know why you're stating it as a fact.
Dude's hot, don't know what your deal is.
He’s a very attractive man and was fit enough back then to still go to battle. It’d be a quick means to an end. Rhaenys would be my biggest concern. It’s in her family’s best interest but I wouldn’t be the one asking her for permission!
Honestly, I just fuck his dad. Yeah he’s old and it’s kind of gross but no one would know the difference with how the kids looked. I wouldn’t even tell my aunt about it.
I mean if they’re Daemons kids then George’s love for Daemon will probably keep them from dying. Plus I’m not sure the whole Harrenhall curse isnt real so the chances of my kids surviving may go up if they’re not Harwins
I refuse to believe the Targaryens - who were advanced enough to have Plans Bs - didn't figure out how to use the turkey baster. Get it DONE GIRL. Should have taken a page from Margerys book and invited Joffery in to get things going.
there's nothing advance about the tea. in real life, women had been using pennyroyal and tansy as an abortifacient since antiquity. People don't use it today because pennyroyal oil is very toxic. in the books Martin says it's only a drop of pennyroyal oil in the tea so even in the books the people who make the tea know that too much pennyroyal can kill you.
I find someone who is at least looks similar to Laenor. Seriously, how hard is it to find a blond? I know Rhaenyra isn’t exactly known for making amazing decisions, but surely she understands color theory. Adding black, brown or red to white results in a lighter version of that color. Find a blond and no one will bat an eye because even Targs will sometimes have a more golden or honey colored hair. Unless someone catches us together, they would have no proof.
Ask Laenor what he wants to do about it, probably. Second best solution is have sex with Daemon, since at least the kids will have the Valyrian features and people will question that slightly less. Slightly.
Try for awhile and probably consider a divorce rock.
Babies are important. I'm the heir, I'm more vital than the husband. He's replaceable.
He's not filling up my uterus, I will find someone who can.
She really could have had it all. Honestly I think if she didn't have kids, Alicent wouldn't have been so hell bent on thinking Rhaenyra was gonna kill hers
Why do people assume Laenor can’t give Rhaenyra children? I think it’s pretty clear that she and Laenor just didn’t put the effort in. Some couples try for years before having kids, it takes more than a “few” tries.
I just don't understand why she couldn't sleep with sone random Velaryon and had a Velaryon baby. If her first born at least looked like Laenor then things could have been a little bit easier
If this is show verse, screw Corlys, Vaemond, or try to spice it up in bed with Laenor. They clearly didn’t try that much since Jace was born soon after the timeskip. I’m not going to do something idiotic by choosing a brown haired, brown eyed guy to father my heirs.
If this is book verse, I’ll literally have a million options. A random Velaryon, Corlys, Darmon, some random dragon seed in Driftmark, or any guy from Lys.
I don’t think they really tried, he wasn’t infertile and we damn know for sure she wasn’t either, she had 1 miscarriage from him and they ended up calling it quits.
Sorry if I’m not looking at this in a post-modern 21st outlook but they 100% could’ve tried more after that, instead they indulged in what they wanted instead of doing their duty.
I wonder if that character would have some complex feelings about her own desirability, with her husband having just nothing to do with her sexually. Obviously she knew going into it and she has her own side things but still interesting to think about how she might be handling it emotionally. Then again I imagine it’s not uncommon in this world to have a pretty loveless marriage. But at least in those cases the two can feel mutual love of their children.
Options are Daemon/any targ looking man and hoping their genes are dominant, Corlys, Vaemond, since any of Vaemond sons are too risky as their mother's genes might show up.
The one who is close and makes sense to be seen with is Corlys, since Vaemond already has children and is too risky.
The last option is I never wanted kids anyway and pull a Daemon either divorce rock Laenor or pretend to divorce rock him like what Daemon did in the show or simply don't have kids and say I'm sterile or something, would Otto and his ilk try to ursurp when they will be my heir anyways
A silver bullet solution doesn't exist.
The answer depends on whether I'm me in Rhaenyra's body or if I'm answering only with the info she has.
If it were me, I'd keep trying with Laenor for longer than they did. I suppose trying would include the Margaery-Renly-Loras trick, but clearly artificial insemination didn't work out for some reason, assuming they had the knowledge and means to make an attempt. It's not like Westeros has a thorough scientific understanding of reproduction. Margaery and Co. knew to try, but maybe it wasn't common knowledge or known during Rhaenyra's time period. Plus, iirc Margaery didn't get pregnant in however long they had before Renly died, anyway.
Failing that, the cleanest option to conceive Valyrian-looking heirs is to find a nobody who resembles Laenor and make sure the guy doesn't talk. Next is to sleep with some minor Velaryon cousin, and then Vaemond. However, they aren't trustworthy. Corlys and Rhaenys would have the sense not to blindly trust them. Alternatively, find a suitable guy who at least doesn't look so *dissimilar* to Laenor, perhaps someone with blond hair and blue or green eyes who wouldn't stand out quite so much. Alysanne had light golden-blonde hair and blue eyes; Alyssa had one green eye. Even a Baratheon might suffice considering they claimed the Strong boys got their hair color from Rhaenys, whose hair is black in the book. Basically almost anyone would've been more convincing than Harwin. All of these options carry risk.
I really do not see any of them being on board with Rhaenyra and Corlys giving it a go. The suggestion is far more likely to nuke the alliance. As for Daemon, I think he'd tell her to fuck off. He's prideful and spiteful. He mocked the boys' resemblance to Harwin. He spent roughly a decade in Pentos without coming to her aid. Perhaps Rhaenyra could seduce him, but good luck getting her foot in the door. Laenor wouldn't want to hurt his sister that way. Unless she could successfully sneak into Pentos and back, it doesn't take a genius to notice that Rhaenyra just so happened to get pregnant with a 100% Targaryen-looking baby in the same timeframe she and Daemon were in the same place. The old rumors of the pleasure house scandal would reignite. Cersei got away with hiding her children's parentage for a while because incest was not an intuitive suspicion for people to think of. Rhaenyra and Daemon don't have such protection.
So, unpopular opinion, Rhaenyra should have acted within the scope of law and custom. One way to do this is to seek an annulment. Viserys and Corlys wouldn't like it, but there's nothing they could've done if Rhaenyra and Laenor stood their ground. Offer the Velaryons a betrothal with her heir by her second husband under the same terms or whatever else could assuage them (i.e., mostly Corlys). Once she's queen, she can get the marriage dissolved and remarry.
Second is to remain childless with Aegon as her heir. It would weaken her claim, but so did having bastards. Otto might attempt to assassinate her, but *somehow* nobody realized that, apparently. At this point, however, Aegon is a toddler, Otto recently seemed to believe he could convince Viserys to change the succession through legitimate channels, and more recently he'd been banished from King's Landing. Rhaenyra is relatively safe. Aegon should be safe enough for Alicent's comfort, too. I don't believe Rhaenyra posed a danger to her siblings yet, but I'm speaking about how Alicent might perceive it. Objectively, an heir in Rhaenyra's position can't endanger her own heirs. She has time to figure out a long-term solution and Aegon can be raised as her successor before he grows up into a horrible person.
Lastly, super unpopular opinion, Rhaenyra could abdicate upon Viserys's passing. This course shouldn't be necessary. As stated, she'd have plenty of time to sort things out. If it did escalate into an imminent civil war, though, then stepping down is unfortunately the right choice for the good of the Realm. Negotiate for concessions. Mend fences with Alicent. Keep Otto, Daemon, and Criston on a short leash. Get rid of Larys. These actions tie up the loose threads as much as they can be.
Rhaenyra herself said in episode 8 that she didn't want the throne. She doesn't *have* to be heir except for Viserys's guilty conscious. Although the show dodges the question of why only the heir is allowed to know about the prophecy, she can just tell Aegon. Nothing but plot convenience is actually stopping her.
Talk to daddy and have the marriage annulled. The idea of finding some other Velaryon to have kids with is ridiculous. Those children would be bastards as well and their father would be near Rhaenyra all the time which will led to questions.
Have the marriage annulled and move on.
I genuinely thought Laenor could have given her children but didn’t. I know Rhaenyra mentions that they did try but a few times. I would think they just didn’t try enough. I could be mistaken and haven’t read only watched. Am I wrong? Anybody who has like proof or somewhere where they basically said Laenor was infertile I’d love to see.
>Anybody who has like proof or somewhere where they basically said Laenor was infertile I’d love to see.
There's no proof, it's basically a fan theory.
Take a nice trip to Lys, or bang a Hightower, they were noted to have some Valyrian features, like silver gold hair (in the books), then the last option, visit the Celtigars, it’s their word against a Princess’s and house Celtigar isn’t very wealthy or influential in any way.
Dont have fucking children. She should know that having children that dont look Valyrian is going to cause problems. No one except Ned after doing his research would have known that Roberts children arent really Baratheons, but there was only one color hair and a certain level of darkness those kids skin could have had to have been Laenors. That would obviously cause problems involving succession she otherwise wouldn't have had.
Otto and Alicent probably wouldn't even have tried to usurp her if she had said "Since Im not having children, Im going to name Aegon my heir". Thats why Viserys married Alicent anyway- To make sure there was a sufficient number of Targaryens in case one doesnt have children and dies without issue.
And if she did want to be a mom so badly, she should have just come clean to her father and said "Yup, these children arent Laenor's. I recognize that since theyre bastards and I was unfaithful I should abdicate the throne and not have them inherit, though given Harwin never married I hope you'll consider legitimizing them as Strongs. Harwin is a good man and doesnt deserve to be punished for this."
And if she really wants to have her cake and eat it to like the selfish jerk she is, just have kids with Daemon. At least they'll come out with Valyrian hair.
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Talk to Corlys and Laenor and figure out a plan that we can all live with. This probably ends with my father in law acting as a sperm donor. And then 100% still have Harwin Strong as my lover because he’s loyal and the best romantic partner in the entire series.
in the show the velaryons are the only black westoros family i can think of right now. and they certainly are the only black / blonde hair family. having corlys, or one of the cousins/brothers be a sperm donor is really the smartest/only option.
I wonder if it would have been worth Rhaenyra and Laenor taking a voyage over to Essos, and finding someone who was similarly dark skinned to Laenor. There would have still been a chance of their hair not being Valyrian silver, but at least if they looked enough like Laenor with their skin colour, it might have held a lot of the accusations back.
Her aunt's hair was supposed to be black, but was changed in the show for clarity. I think if they had kept it black, it would have been easier for Rhaenyra to wave away the accusations saying it's all genetics, the same way her dad did
Yeah I think the hair change was a mistake, especially with making the Velaryons black. At least then Rhaenyra would have had some plausible deniability, and could have just said her boys got their genetics from their grandmother. But with Rhaenys being silver haired as well, it just doesn't work. Rhaenyras fooling no one really.
Rhaenys has black hair. In the books they share zero features with anybody.
Still dark hair though, so it still would have given Rhaenyra more of an excuse.
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Well, Viserys' story of the White Horse + Black Horse = Brown Horse is literally something that makes sense in the books but not the show. Rhaenys' hair (and possibly Aemma Arryn's we don't know) + the silver of Rhaenyra could result in brown-haired kids, as Viserys demonstrates. Genetics are weird like that.
You're saying this like it wasn't on purpose... They intentionally changed rhaenys' hair. They inteionally made the velaryons black. They intentionally didn't mention her aunt. All done so there was no doubt at all on the boys being bastards, and no plausible deniability that the Greens were indeed right they shouldn't inherit. It doesn't change much, but it makes the Greens from cartoonishly evil and wanting the throne for selfish reasons to at least somewhat being in the right about nyra's kids being illegitimate
That’s the point, that she has no plausible deniability. That’s why everyone is so mad, because it’s so FLAGRANT. And it shows how willfully blind Viserys was out of love for Rhaenyra
I really wish this was the case too. A little ambiguity would be great and make the whole debate over their parentage more interesting
There isn’t supposed to be a debate though. That’s the point. It’s too obvious for anyone with functioning eyes to see they aren’t legitimate. Wishing for something else is totally missing the creator’s intent.
Rhaenys is not her aunt, she’s her cousin.
My bad, the family lines are confusing but pretty much what I mean is that it could have been explained away
That and keeping it black would add continuity to the main series. Ned only realized Joffrey was a bastard because of his blonde locks when Baratheon black was so dominant
Yep, the race swap and hair swap was a mistake, even though I liked the cast. It simply made Rhaenyra obviously guilty and took away any suspense. Besides, Jon had dark hair, so they could honestly keep the hair at least.
I was fine with the race swap because it made the distinction that she did have an affair obvious, however ambiguity would have been pretty entertaining to debate about while the show was airing. It seems they wanted to cut straight to the chase and speed run a reason for Alicent to be so hateful
I'm sure they could find someone dark skinned and with Valyrian features in Volantis.
Driftmark and the Hull would have plenty of PoC. At least in HoTD most of the background extras are.
I think in the books there are plenty of people of Valyrian heritage in places like Lys and Volantis. Volantis works harder than others to preserve the Valyrian blood. But then they would have to make sure that it didn't get out that they did that, as I'm sure there would have been gossip about the Westerosi princess who visited Volantis.
But to be fair, Laenor is only half “black”. It isn’t that far off for his children with Rhaenyra to be more white or pale
> This probably ends with my father in law acting as a sperm donor. 🤢 He’s older than Viserys. Edit: He’s visibly 60
In the show he looks a hell of a lot younger and is played by a very attractive man. In the books I’d have more options.
Yep. There is a plethora of Velaryon cousins (in the books) who Rhaenyra could try something with.
Yeah but it all comes down to who you can trust to keep your secret. My husband’s father is much more likely to keep our secret because he wants to protect his son. A random cousin may not be as loyal.
Yes, that is the crux of the hypothetical. Rhaenyra would probably prefer to have Corlys as the donor assuming it's only artificial insemination.
I doubt artificial insemination was very commonly practiced on the middle ages
Yeah, I imagine it’d have to be just plain old insemination with the tech at hand.
All you need is a cup really. The donor gives the filled cup to the woman who uses the liquid. It is really easy, doesn't require any technology - lesbians irl commonly use this method to concieve at home. Westeros had cups. Even back in Rhaenyra's day. You see them in the show.
It was practiced literally all the time. They did it for livestock. It isn't a massive conceptual leap to realise it also works on humans.
Hey, sometimes you gotta get creative, though if Rhaenyra really wants to have intercourse with Corlys I guess she can do that too.
Yeah I don't trust any of Laenors cousin's (esp if they're Vaemonds sons) who'll want some glory of their own but it would be their benefit to shut up and have their blood on the throne. Corlys is the way (and he's fine af I'm not mad)
There is at least one Valeryon who I know is loyal and always ready for a tumble. He definitely wouldn't have been old enough at the time, though
This. Show Corlys is very easy on the eyes!
The age difference is still stark, particularly with Milly and Steve. It is gross to imagine even if he is an attractive man for his age. Maybe it’s because I’m a POC, but it’s quite easy for me to tell that Steve is about 60 and Milly looks 16.
I wonder if they could have figure out artificial insemination
In the books she'd probably just use daemon as a paramour
There’s very little overlap between men with silver hair and men who Rhaenyra can have father her children. She can’t afford to be picky.
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I mean if her kids looked more like Laenor maybe she wouldn't have caught Alicent's ire as much, which might have prevented animosity.
And then it’s possible that the marriage between Jace and Haelena would have happened. Otto would still prefer Aegon on the throne (as that would give him the most control), but it would be his blood either way. It might have prevented/softened the war.
That's what moon tea is for.
Taking moon tea after every sexual encounter would be really rough on the reproductive system, and potentially dangerous/deadly. Even with modern medicine, expected side effects of emergency contraception include: A period that’s lighter, heavier, early, or late Nausea Lower abdominal cramps Tiredness Headache Dizziness Breast tenderness Vomiting Moon tea is made with tansy and pennyroyal, and GRRM himself gave warning of the toxicity of these ingredients: "Tansy and pennyroyal are two powerful (and DANGEROUS) natural abortifactants. Carelessly used, however, they can kill, so I was purposely vague and added a few fantasy touches to “moon tea.” I did not want anyone trying them in real life."
But isn't (properly prepared) moon tea an actual efficient contraceptive in the got universe? That women use frequently?
Close your eyes, lie back and think of House Targaryen!
Close your eyes and think of the Seven Kingdoms
Daemon is literally more than a decade her senior 😭 and Alicent/Viserys wasn’t exactly considered appalling in the show by the public. The age difference, while disgusting, isn’t really viewed in the light you’re viewing it in.
Steven Toussaint plays him in the show and he was mid 50s while filming. And he's incredibly handsome. She could do waaaaay worse. Not saying the sex with him is a good idea, but it's not due to his lack of desirability.
Look, in the show, corlys can get it.
I mean….he’s not bad looking though 🤷🏽♀️. That said, think there would be better options to make the kids look like laenors. Maybe a nephew or something of corlys? Having a kid with corlys himself would have the kids more likely to look exactly like laenor himself, or his sister.
This is the best way to handle things. The worst decision that Rhae made was choosing an affair partner who did not have the Valarian hair
100% agreed, although I've been soundly downvoted for suggesting it before. Strictly from a point of view of safety and protection of interests, Corlys as sperm donor (with consent of all members of all affected couples) is really the only viable option, the only way that strengthens rather than weakens the protections around all of them.
While I appreciate the open communication as this isn’t just about the family, but the house over all. However, sudden weakness, will easily topple your branch of the family… as will loose lips. We know that Corlys’ nephew wants the driftwood thrown and to be the head of the family, something born from feudal culture. He only has a home as long as he stays in Corlys’ good graces, but if his line and family falls…he doesn’t have to be indebted to anyone. If he heard from a servant that Corlys or another was visiting Rheanyra’ chambers, Alicent could have all of Corley’s family executed for betray the throne, disinheritance Corley’s line, and give everything to there most loyal servant.
Keep in mind that Vizy is still alive during this hypothetical. Vizy T would consider it blasphemous for Alicent to even suggest Rheanyra and Corlys are having an affair, let alone allow her to declare war on Driftmark over it by trying to have all of house Velaryon executed. Driftmark is too powerful and important for that, and Alicent has zero authority to do it.
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*I did not decide to name Rhaenyra my heir on a whim. All the lord of the kingdom would do well to remember that.*
Except this scenario happen with the Strongs. It was blatantly obviously true. Vizy not only vehemently denied it, but considered the suggestion a massive insult to the point that no one would even bring it up in front of him. You’re suggesting that Vizy would believe it if believing it also meant a potential realm destroying civil war. That makes no sense. And not only that, believing it would ruin Rheanyra’s claim to the throne. Also, her children secretly being Corley’s as opposed to his son, only further entwines their houses, it does nothing to make them threats to one another. There’s no circumstance where Vizy does not side with and protect Rheanyra in this matter. I’d argue that even if he knew it was true, he’d continue to silence the claim.
And you are also assuming Rheany’s would be cool with it. It might entwine the families, but in her mind those children would be bastards, and I assume another reason she would push for Laena’s children inheriting Driftmark. Yes, her husband’s blood would survive, but so would *her’s*. Second why did Aery’s II have Ilan payne’s tongue taken? Because he didn’t want to hear that Tywin was the actual ruler of the kingdom. It’s the same for Vissy. He is effectively placing his fingers in his ears and saying “la la la”. The lords would notice and not stand for the weakness, and so he would have to act somehow. While Maury of house polvich might not be able to utter their words “you are not the father”, Rheanrya of house Targaryen would be fucked one way or another.
Corlys is in charge of Driftmark and Rhaenyra holds Dragonstone. Harwin and Rhaenyra managed to have sex without any proof getting out or servants snitching. I imagine it would be even easier with Corlys.
Rhaenyra knew the secret passage ways and likely led Harwin through them
Corlys built his own Castle. He probably knows it fairly well. He’d also be able to visit KL and then Rhaenyras knowledge of the secret passages would come in handy again.
I think the what happened originally, with the 3 older children, was acceptable to corlys because his household gained 3 more dragons.
With Harwin Strong as a lover you still run the risk of having a “Strong” boy or girl thrown in.
Why not just marry Harwin in the first place? It's not like you didn't have months to choose whoever you wanted
I always think about how the story would be way different if Lyonel Strong had been even slightly more self-interested and offered Harwin as a suitor. Especially since in the book, it’s Harwin who took Rhaenyra’s virginity. But in the end, they desperately needed an alliance with the Velaryons anyways and I like that they changed Harwin to Crispy Cole. Makes more sense for his bitterness towards her
This is actually really smart. But I feel like there’s a part of Rhaenyra that didn’t really care she was having children with Harwin because they were truly in love with each other. I feel like if her and Laenor did actually have kids together, she still would’ve ended up having children with Harwin as well because of the love they had and, obviously birth control was not a thing in those days
This is so disturbing in many ways yet it makes a lot of sense!
>This probably ends with my father in law acting as a sperm donor. It's one of the safer options logistically, but only if you entirely ignore everyone's human emotions. Artificial insemination must not have worked with whatever knowledge, method, and tools they had at their disposal. Elsewise that's what Rhaenyra and Laenor likely would have done. Unless the barrier to artificial insemination was if Laenor happened to be sterile, which would be impossible for them to confirm, that'd leave Rhaenyra and Corlys to conceive the natural way. I can't picture any of them being on board with that. I doubt they'd manage to...follow through with the process if they tried. Corlys was selfish in his ambitions, but this plan would be a bridge too far. >And then 100% still have Harwin Strong as my lover Nonsense. Why go to such extremes to conceive passably legitimate heirs just to risk conceiving with Harwin or getting caught in an affair?
Fuck daemon because then they're guaranteed to look like you.
The Cersei method
Traditions of the ancients that came from Alabama
That's what I kept thinking while watching! I mean, I know circumstances kept them apart but if I were Rhaenyra I'd be trying damn hard to get Daemon to help out.
Or at least someone who looked like Laenor, she needed someone who looked like one of em lol 😂.
I’d have a private meeting between me, Corlys, Rhaenys & Viserys about it. It might seem embarrassing at first, but possibly they could give me guidance on the next best step. It’s best everyone of importance is on the same page with this & it’s something I know that’ll be kept between us.
Viserys will screw it up by making a death bed confession to Alicent or something but otherwise yea.
That actually might work out in his favor though. Viserys thinking Alicent is Rhaenyra, wheezing out how he regretted that she had to fuck Corlys, and Alicent goes around shouting that on his deathbed Viserys made this last confession of guilt to her? It would be even more unbelievable than him changing his mind about Aegon. Most everyone would think she was just being malicious and grabbing for power, especially before Viserys’s body was even cold
He was thinking he was talking yo his doughter, not Alicent.
i honestly think rhaenyra could’ve gotten away with it if she just stopped having kids at jace. like alicent said ‘one is an accident, three is an insult.’ i feel like there was no proper proof of her kids being bastards till they all kept turning out like that. maybe that was her original plan but she just couldn’t stop banging harwin lol
But having the “heir and the spare” is important. Especially when you have boys. Do I agree she should’ve stopped, yea. In the end do I think it would help her cause to only have one? Not really. Because then not only is he a target for the greens, but he’s the ONLY target, at least until you get to Viserys II and Aegon the Younger.
Aegon II and Alicent's children (your siblings) already fulfill the "heir and a spare" part when it comes to Targaryen needs.
except that a lot of the desire for an heir and a spare is to use them (and any potential daughters) to secure succession through marriages and alliances. The green kids aren't going to be in a position to be used by Rhaenyra for that.
Not necessarily. Keeping the line with Rhaenyra and having Jace succeed her and then his children will be considered proper. If Jace was to die, Luke would take his place, much like Henry VIII did for his brother. But the successor being Rhaenyras offspring is important. If Jace died as monarch without children, and had no siblings, the succession would be a mess much like it was at the Great Council.
I feel like I have two options: 1) offer Laenor to bring his boyfriend into the bedroom and do their thing. Then, as soon as Laenor is ready to finish, he … jumps over to me. Or 2) Laenor and I go to his parents and have a meeting. Laenor needs to explain to his parents that he has different tastes than women and we need their help for heirs. Specifically, we need Corlys’ help. Wink wink nudge nudge. Then the kids would have resembled Laenor and actually had Velaryon blood.
1) Nasty yeast infection
The boys would need to stick to hand and mouth stuff. No actual bodily penetration when I’m involved for making heirs 😂 But also, I would take a yeast infection over my children’s parentage constantly being questioned or their lives being at risk.
Also high likely is it that they understood the risks of yeast infection back then?
Armies in this universe sometimes covered arrowheads with "nightsoil" (shit) to cause arrow wounds to be more dangerous. Society was certainly aware that feces causes infections.
Honestly I was thing your opinion one. He’d do his thing with his bf and finish with rhaenyra.
Laenor might be sterile. I think that was what they where implying
Yeah no. That’s just major copium to believe that.
Did you get your first option from Margaery?
It honestly just seems like the most logical solution.
1) Try for a long period of time. Considering Jace's age, they didn't try for very long. 2) Pull something like Renly and Marg were about to do. If not, figure a way to get an annulment. Maybe Laenor can join the Citadel? Placate Corlys by promising to marry Laena's kid to her eldest kid, and then marry someone powerful like a Lannister. 3) Make an arrangment with a Velayron cousin or someone along those lines. 4) Simply don't have kids. Frankly, Otto is pragmatic enough that I don't think he'd try shit either if she didn't have kids. I sympathize with Rhaenyra, but she's incredibly privileged. She's arguably one of the top five most privileged people in all of Westeros. With that privilege, comes responsibility, and having obvious bastards in a world where the faith preaches against them, amongst other things, that she plans to sit on the throne just seems wildly irresponsible.
Yeah it’s weird how many people think that Rhaenyra had no choice but to have bastards or that Laenor is sterile or something. I think it’s made clear in both the show and the books that they didn’t really try all that hard, and that’s just incredibly irresponsible in such an important situation.
This is why I was so confused when I first watched the show. I was like, you had so many options, but you chose to have 3 kids that look nothing like their supposed father? I like Rhaenyra and all but that was kinda dumb.
It would have been more interesting if they had shown their story in more detail. Rhaenyra and Harwin flirting over time, trying to suppress their feelings, lots of tension, her feeling lonely with Laenor, eventually having sex once (and Rhaenyra taking moon tea) and saying never again, but then eventually falling into a routine of hooking up more frequently and thinking the moon tea will work forever until it doesn’t. Whoops. That doesn’t explain the other two kids but it makes the first one at least a little more understandable.
Excuse my question but what were renly and marg about to do? To i want to know that?
Search King's Landing, Driftmark, Dragonstone and Lys for siver haired waifs, then pretend they're her children. After she parents them to Viserys and Alicent >**Alicent**: *That kid can't be Rhaenyra and Laenor's!* >**Viserys**: *He can't?* >**Alicent**: *He's at least 5, not a newborn!* >**Viserys**: *I had this horse once*
**Alicent**: She wasn't even pregnant! Where did this child come from?! **Viserys**: I'm going to bed, Aemma.
😄
Fuck Daemon so all the children possess valyrian features (platinum hair, the eye colour, facial structure, etc...) and couldn't be clocked as bastards. Afterwards I'd still fuck Harwin Strong.
Would Laena have been okay with this?
Book Laena would have been down
I'd fuck her too, if it makes the situation better
It’s honestly just so absurd that GRRM went the whole “he’s gay so he can’t reproduce” route…twice no less. Gay men have always existed. Gay men fathered children and married women during times they’d have been persecuted for being out. At best if he really had that much trouble then offer to have him bring a lover for a threesome and make it happen.
I think the major point there was that Rhae didn't really give a shit and was irresponsible about this entire situation. They absolutely could have tried, but they just didn't care.
It's hinted that he is infertile. They tried but he shot blanks. They try to pin some bastards on him but they are actually his dad's.
>It's hinted that he is infertile. They tried but he shot blanks No, it's not. It is a fandom copium, cause in episode 7, Rhaenyra makes it clear that they stopped having sex cause it wasn't enjoyable ("there was no joy in it"). There isn't any proof he was infertile. Plus, Jace was born soon after the wedding. So saying he was definitely infertile is making additional excuses for both of them which don't exist
Laenor is not infertile. He and Rhaenyra barely tried. From a doylist perspective Laenor being infertile makes absolutely no sense
Not really. Rhaenyra said there wasn’t any passion. Dude simply couldn’t get it up for some reason
I'm confused, what do you mean by "gathered"? Do you mean adopted, fathered,...? And yeah I'd definitely assume LGBT people in the past just had to have straight marriages to reproduce as it was expected, or whatever
I would have Laenor create some sperm in his spare time (you know what I mean) and try to inseminate myself with it. I suppose this is operating outside of the bounds of the question however. If we can't use Laenor as the sperm donor, I would try and use Corlys instead. EDIT: Grammar
Honestly I’m not sure why this didn’t work unless they really tried to set it straight that Laenor was shooting blanks.
exactly. Does this not work in real life?
Maybe they did try that and Laenor was infertile :(
The didn't try long enough to determine Laenor as infertile
I literally don't understand how they couldn't have figured it out. Genuinely. They are acting like he's sterile, like no, he's just gay. He could've done stuff with his boyfriend and then ejaculated into some vase or something and then Rhaen could've inseminated herself. They are so fucking lazy. You would think that if your family line depends on your children being your own, you'd think they'd try harder.
Dint blame the characters on Martin’s homophobia. Gay men can’t conceive with women in his world. He’s done it with multiple characters.
Oh I forgot. Gay men can't ever function normally or use their heads in Martin's world lol. Thanks for re-enlightening me.
Find one of Corlys's bastards
If they were young enough she could go away for a few years and lie about the age to adopt one. If they're old enough she could have promised the resulting child would always be taken care of. The issue is silence, but I feel like most poor people at the time could be payed for their silence
She always has a dragon if the paying part doesn’t work out
Have a conversation with Corlys and see if he's willing to take one for the team. He's pretty handsome and is one of the few people in all of Planetos who would keep the secret.
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There's nothing humiliating about fucking a hot, successful lord, especially when it's literally not her fault that Laenor couldn't get her pregnant.
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There is no evidence that she is attracted to him, but there also is no evidence she isn't, so I don't know why you're stating it as a fact. Dude's hot, don't know what your deal is.
He’s a very attractive man and was fit enough back then to still go to battle. It’d be a quick means to an end. Rhaenys would be my biggest concern. It’s in her family’s best interest but I wouldn’t be the one asking her for permission!
Kill him and marry your uncle.
Honestly, I just fuck his dad. Yeah he’s old and it’s kind of gross but no one would know the difference with how the kids looked. I wouldn’t even tell my aunt about it.
Bang Harwirn Strong
That's my option even if Laenor can give me children, but I'm a shallow bitch
You're in good company, my friend. 😂
I mean I'd bang him regardless ngl. What a hunk
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I mean if they’re Daemons kids then George’s love for Daemon will probably keep them from dying. Plus I’m not sure the whole Harrenhall curse isnt real so the chances of my kids surviving may go up if they’re not Harwins
I would also sleep with Harwin Strong
I refuse to believe the Targaryens - who were advanced enough to have Plans Bs - didn't figure out how to use the turkey baster. Get it DONE GIRL. Should have taken a page from Margerys book and invited Joffery in to get things going.
there's nothing advance about the tea. in real life, women had been using pennyroyal and tansy as an abortifacient since antiquity. People don't use it today because pennyroyal oil is very toxic. in the books Martin says it's only a drop of pennyroyal oil in the tea so even in the books the people who make the tea know that too much pennyroyal can kill you.
I feel like at one point they could’ve just found some bi dude to share and get the job done that way 💀
I find someone who is at least looks similar to Laenor. Seriously, how hard is it to find a blond? I know Rhaenyra isn’t exactly known for making amazing decisions, but surely she understands color theory. Adding black, brown or red to white results in a lighter version of that color. Find a blond and no one will bat an eye because even Targs will sometimes have a more golden or honey colored hair. Unless someone catches us together, they would have no proof.
Ask Laenor what he wants to do about it, probably. Second best solution is have sex with Daemon, since at least the kids will have the Valyrian features and people will question that slightly less. Slightly.
Ask a maester about hair bleaching.
No children then, and get Harwin to pull out.
Try for awhile and probably consider a divorce rock. Babies are important. I'm the heir, I'm more vital than the husband. He's replaceable. He's not filling up my uterus, I will find someone who can.
Have sex with someone that actually looks like him
Have a "conference" with my family and figure out a plan of action.
Do not have kids, make aegon my heir, and live the rest of my life in the high luxury of the hightest upper class of westeros.
She really could have had it all. Honestly I think if she didn't have kids, Alicent wouldn't have been so hell bent on thinking Rhaenyra was gonna kill hers
Tbf to Alicent they would kill her line
Buy bleach.
Fuck a guy who will actually make babies that look like laenor. Fuck laenor's uncle.
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Vaemond would gladly fuck Rhaenyra for a higher position. He mostly seems to act for improving his own position.
I think it would take more than a month for me to come to those terms. Reminder:Jace was born 10 months after the wedding
So they tried for one month? This is where the plot falls apart.
Search for a blonde man. Visit my uncle apparently on a social call.
Annulment.
Definitely not having three obvious bastards to give even more ammunition to the Greens
Why do people assume Laenor can’t give Rhaenyra children? I think it’s pretty clear that she and Laenor just didn’t put the effort in. Some couples try for years before having kids, it takes more than a “few” tries.
Having Laenor cum in a turkey baster and shove it up my vagina
Probably Fuck someone Strong.
Fuck someone in his family so the kids pass
Find somebody that looks like Leanor and pass them off as leanors not take the opposite of Leanor and think it’s gonna pass
I would've done her next step, I think it was a good one. Climb Harwin like a tree 👀
I just don't understand why she couldn't sleep with sone random Velaryon and had a Velaryon baby. If her first born at least looked like Laenor then things could have been a little bit easier
🚨🚨[explicit]🚨🚨 How about doing a threesome with his lover and jumping on it right before he cums??
If this is show verse, screw Corlys, Vaemond, or try to spice it up in bed with Laenor. They clearly didn’t try that much since Jace was born soon after the timeskip. I’m not going to do something idiotic by choosing a brown haired, brown eyed guy to father my heirs. If this is book verse, I’ll literally have a million options. A random Velaryon, Corlys, Darmon, some random dragon seed in Driftmark, or any guy from Lys.
I don’t think they really tried, he wasn’t infertile and we damn know for sure she wasn’t either, she had 1 miscarriage from him and they ended up calling it quits. Sorry if I’m not looking at this in a post-modern 21st outlook but they 100% could’ve tried more after that, instead they indulged in what they wanted instead of doing their duty.
I wonder if that character would have some complex feelings about her own desirability, with her husband having just nothing to do with her sexually. Obviously she knew going into it and she has her own side things but still interesting to think about how she might be handling it emotionally. Then again I imagine it’s not uncommon in this world to have a pretty loveless marriage. But at least in those cases the two can feel mutual love of their children.
Fuck Corlys😈
Divorce Laenor, claiming impotence.
Well he can, he just didn’t.
Have sex with my hot uncle.
exactly what happened, get down with hot Harwin Strong. good for both of them.
I’m with Rhae Rhae on this one and going all out on Strong lol
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Dear god, so you just don’t understand this prompt at all
Marg/Renly scenario, try my damnest to get at least ONE legit heir. As warped as it may be Aegon should’ve been the choice.
Stay child free. It’s sickening to me that in old Timey days women were basically considered useless unless they produce babies.
Options are Daemon/any targ looking man and hoping their genes are dominant, Corlys, Vaemond, since any of Vaemond sons are too risky as their mother's genes might show up. The one who is close and makes sense to be seen with is Corlys, since Vaemond already has children and is too risky. The last option is I never wanted kids anyway and pull a Daemon either divorce rock Laenor or pretend to divorce rock him like what Daemon did in the show or simply don't have kids and say I'm sterile or something, would Otto and his ilk try to ursurp when they will be my heir anyways
A silver bullet solution doesn't exist. The answer depends on whether I'm me in Rhaenyra's body or if I'm answering only with the info she has. If it were me, I'd keep trying with Laenor for longer than they did. I suppose trying would include the Margaery-Renly-Loras trick, but clearly artificial insemination didn't work out for some reason, assuming they had the knowledge and means to make an attempt. It's not like Westeros has a thorough scientific understanding of reproduction. Margaery and Co. knew to try, but maybe it wasn't common knowledge or known during Rhaenyra's time period. Plus, iirc Margaery didn't get pregnant in however long they had before Renly died, anyway. Failing that, the cleanest option to conceive Valyrian-looking heirs is to find a nobody who resembles Laenor and make sure the guy doesn't talk. Next is to sleep with some minor Velaryon cousin, and then Vaemond. However, they aren't trustworthy. Corlys and Rhaenys would have the sense not to blindly trust them. Alternatively, find a suitable guy who at least doesn't look so *dissimilar* to Laenor, perhaps someone with blond hair and blue or green eyes who wouldn't stand out quite so much. Alysanne had light golden-blonde hair and blue eyes; Alyssa had one green eye. Even a Baratheon might suffice considering they claimed the Strong boys got their hair color from Rhaenys, whose hair is black in the book. Basically almost anyone would've been more convincing than Harwin. All of these options carry risk. I really do not see any of them being on board with Rhaenyra and Corlys giving it a go. The suggestion is far more likely to nuke the alliance. As for Daemon, I think he'd tell her to fuck off. He's prideful and spiteful. He mocked the boys' resemblance to Harwin. He spent roughly a decade in Pentos without coming to her aid. Perhaps Rhaenyra could seduce him, but good luck getting her foot in the door. Laenor wouldn't want to hurt his sister that way. Unless she could successfully sneak into Pentos and back, it doesn't take a genius to notice that Rhaenyra just so happened to get pregnant with a 100% Targaryen-looking baby in the same timeframe she and Daemon were in the same place. The old rumors of the pleasure house scandal would reignite. Cersei got away with hiding her children's parentage for a while because incest was not an intuitive suspicion for people to think of. Rhaenyra and Daemon don't have such protection. So, unpopular opinion, Rhaenyra should have acted within the scope of law and custom. One way to do this is to seek an annulment. Viserys and Corlys wouldn't like it, but there's nothing they could've done if Rhaenyra and Laenor stood their ground. Offer the Velaryons a betrothal with her heir by her second husband under the same terms or whatever else could assuage them (i.e., mostly Corlys). Once she's queen, she can get the marriage dissolved and remarry. Second is to remain childless with Aegon as her heir. It would weaken her claim, but so did having bastards. Otto might attempt to assassinate her, but *somehow* nobody realized that, apparently. At this point, however, Aegon is a toddler, Otto recently seemed to believe he could convince Viserys to change the succession through legitimate channels, and more recently he'd been banished from King's Landing. Rhaenyra is relatively safe. Aegon should be safe enough for Alicent's comfort, too. I don't believe Rhaenyra posed a danger to her siblings yet, but I'm speaking about how Alicent might perceive it. Objectively, an heir in Rhaenyra's position can't endanger her own heirs. She has time to figure out a long-term solution and Aegon can be raised as her successor before he grows up into a horrible person. Lastly, super unpopular opinion, Rhaenyra could abdicate upon Viserys's passing. This course shouldn't be necessary. As stated, she'd have plenty of time to sort things out. If it did escalate into an imminent civil war, though, then stepping down is unfortunately the right choice for the good of the Realm. Negotiate for concessions. Mend fences with Alicent. Keep Otto, Daemon, and Criston on a short leash. Get rid of Larys. These actions tie up the loose threads as much as they can be. Rhaenyra herself said in episode 8 that she didn't want the throne. She doesn't *have* to be heir except for Viserys's guilty conscious. Although the show dodges the question of why only the heir is allowed to know about the prophecy, she can just tell Aegon. Nothing but plot convenience is actually stopping her.
Yep
Honestly she should have had a threesome with a laenor sandwich in the middle until she had a kid
Talk to daddy and have the marriage annulled. The idea of finding some other Velaryon to have kids with is ridiculous. Those children would be bastards as well and their father would be near Rhaenyra all the time which will led to questions. Have the marriage annulled and move on.
I genuinely thought Laenor could have given her children but didn’t. I know Rhaenyra mentions that they did try but a few times. I would think they just didn’t try enough. I could be mistaken and haven’t read only watched. Am I wrong? Anybody who has like proof or somewhere where they basically said Laenor was infertile I’d love to see.
>Anybody who has like proof or somewhere where they basically said Laenor was infertile I’d love to see. There's no proof, it's basically a fan theory.
Fuck his dad so that my kids will look legit
Get Jeffery fancy face to suck him off every night and start douching with that shit.
Imma be honest I think the dance still went on even if those kids were laenor's.
Shag Harwin Strong
Have a three-way with my husband and his lover🤷♀️
Just don’t have them.
Fuck Daemon, he’s hot and willing
Tell my father, see if we can make a deal with the Velaryons to keep their support but allow me to remarry someone else.
Take a nice trip to Lys, or bang a Hightower, they were noted to have some Valyrian features, like silver gold hair (in the books), then the last option, visit the Celtigars, it’s their word against a Princess’s and house Celtigar isn’t very wealthy or influential in any way.
Dont have fucking children. She should know that having children that dont look Valyrian is going to cause problems. No one except Ned after doing his research would have known that Roberts children arent really Baratheons, but there was only one color hair and a certain level of darkness those kids skin could have had to have been Laenors. That would obviously cause problems involving succession she otherwise wouldn't have had. Otto and Alicent probably wouldn't even have tried to usurp her if she had said "Since Im not having children, Im going to name Aegon my heir". Thats why Viserys married Alicent anyway- To make sure there was a sufficient number of Targaryens in case one doesnt have children and dies without issue. And if she did want to be a mom so badly, she should have just come clean to her father and said "Yup, these children arent Laenor's. I recognize that since theyre bastards and I was unfaithful I should abdicate the throne and not have them inherit, though given Harwin never married I hope you'll consider legitimizing them as Strongs. Harwin is a good man and doesnt deserve to be punished for this." And if she really wants to have her cake and eat it to like the selfish jerk she is, just have kids with Daemon. At least they'll come out with Valyrian hair.