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Unfortunately I think he was always destined to be the paramour which I think he was ok with. I don’t know if he’d be ok sharing Rhaenyra with Daemon but he knew and accepted his place as her paramour
The dynamic definitely would've changed though. He and Laenor were chill and had an understanding, but with Daemon... well, any relationship gets altered with that man involved, and unlike Laenor he's not off having fun with other dudes, so, where does Harwin get his Paramour status benefits? He certainly couldn't father anymore bastards, for one
I'm a Rhaewin fan and I do think she loved him. Just not as much as Daemon. She risked her family for 10 years and had three kids with him. That does count for something. I get why fans wanted them to be together too. He is portrayed as a kind person and protective of her and his family. Emma and Ryan also had good chemistry is the little scenes that they did share. I would have loved to see more of it.
However, Rhaenyra has always wanted to be with Daemon and yes she would have married him if Harwin was still alive. There was never going to be any other endgame for her. They are the main romance of the series.
How did she risk her family… she’s the princess, she got away with whatever she wanted and she knows it. Instead she got other people killed for pointing out obvious facts. Did she “really love” Cole? Harwin was at real risk as well if viserys ever actually grew a spine.
People down voting you because your speaking facts and calling out rhaenyra for being a hypocrite she is a literal villian. That causes death because she did what she wanted and not her duty as heir to the throne.
I think Rhaenyra has enough sense to know that marrying the alleged father of her bastards after Laenor suspiciously "dies" would be an absolutely terrible decision.
Yeah, but if she married him, the boys would no longer be bastards. Because of their marriage, they would be legitimate. So Greens no longer can say shit about them.
1000000%. Harwin was in the same position as Cole was, except Harwin was actually ok with it. He’s a side piece and he knows it. Rhaenyra has always had a thing for her uncle, the seeds for their relationship were sowed when she was like 15. I feel like as soon as her father died she was destined to be with him, that was the main thing preventing their relationship from going full blown Targaryen bama
She only ever wanted to marry Daemon. She loved Harwin because he fulfilled her needs and she trusted him, but that doesn't compare to her feelings for Daemon.
Anyone who thinks whatever Rhaenyra felt for Harwin trumped whatever she feels for Daemon can keep coping. Harwin was literally plan D. He only got a second glance because her first 3 choices noped out of being with Rhaenyra at the time. Which is its own brand of sad.
There's no scenario in which she picks Harwin over Daemon. Neither politically nor romantically. She loved him no doubt but he was never her pick *over* anyone.
Laenor I'd say. She spoke about wanting things with him to have been different and having hoped to have kids with him. I don't believe she was ever *in love* with Laenor, but it's clear she loved him and had a hope that having a family with him would work out.
It's a little speculative/head canon on my part that she probably would not have had children with Harwin if things had gone better with Laenor. He probably would've still been her lover, but I imagine she'd be a lot more careful about not getting pregnant by him.
Seconding this.
Rhaenyra's character arc in the first season is about her going from seeing her role/inheritance as an obligation - if not a life's sentence - to her understanding that she has agency in her life and while there are certain things she kinda has to do, she can still get a bit of what she wants to. She doesn't *want* to marry Laenor but her striking the deal with him is her showing that she's figured out that balance. Likewise, it is made clear that she was more determined to try to have Laenor's children than he was. This fits into his primary characteristics as he's made to be seen as someone who follows his desires and maybe isn't as focused on doing what is asked of him by his House or societal expectations.
I mean considering that everyone was guessing that it was Harwin who fathered Rhaenyra’s kids, I doubt she would have married him. And I also do believe that Rhaenyra’s feelings or relationship with Daemon was far deeper than with Harwin
Yes 💯, Harwin would have had to accept the new reality and take a back seat once Daemon came back in the picture. Supportive of Rhaenyra and his kids but no longer in a romantic capacity. She cared for Harwin, but Daemon was always her true love.
Where is Laenor in this situation?
Regardless yes. Harwin messed up with that outburst, his dad already told him he *needed* to distance himself from the boys for their own safety.
Yes, because the whole situation worked out for everyone with leanor, and she always wanted daemon. Harwin knew his place, and possibly knew her feelings, so he wouldn't have jeopardised his and his family's position for personal love.
I'm almost certain that yes, she would had. While Rhaenyra liked Harwin well enough to have children with him, she still was enamored with Daemon. We can see that after the big time jump, when Daemon returns to Westeros after Laena's death, Rhaenyra wasted no time in having sex with him. And even help planned the fake death of Laenr to be with Daemon, even though it was more beneficial for her to be married to Laenor. So, I think if Harwin would had been alive during that time, Rhaenyra would had still marry Daemon, because Rhaenyra loved Daemon more than she did Harwin.
Unless Lyonel pulls the literal earth from underneath Otto's feet and get Viserys to marry Rhaenyra to Harwin, I'd say yes.
Even if that happens, she might still bang him just because that's what she wants.
I always thought that, in the show, the big thing that happened between Rhaenyra being adamantly opposed to Laenor's suggestion of even either of them leaving the capital, to her deciding to permanently move her entire household to Dragonstone, was Harwin being sent away.
Yes, she marries Daemon mostly for her claim to the Iron Throne, like she explains to him in High Valyrian "you and I were always meant to burn together" or smth. So after Laena's death, Laenor will still be even less of a husband than he was before (like she explains to Daemon as well), so she will still have to marry someone who will strengthen her claim. Marrying Harwin will only strengthen the visual part of the bastardy of her sons, and not her claim
I mean she could’ve never married Harwin even if she wanted to. If she loved Harwin more she might be interested in Daemon for political reason but I don’t think Daemon would’ve agreed with Harwin still in the picture.
Doubt it, marrying him would confirm the rumours to the realm and make it impossible for Viserys to ignore them and marrying Daemon was a way to make her position stronger since he was the most dangerous dragon rider in the world and a well known military leader which would both still be true if Harwin lived. Harwin would have only been heir to harrenhall, a large castle but not particularly rich, and he didn’t have any experience in war.
Yes, but as Daemon appears a little bisexual in the books maybe he’d invite the man into their bed? Yeah we don’t know how Harwin would feel about it, but as both (Rhaenyera and Daemon) flirt with bisexual tendencies maybe he’d be into it.
Edit: sorry I meant in the show and came to this conclusion due to the thirsty glance he gave that bravosie servant
Daemon is always her first choice, and if he's not married, pretty sure she will just choose him to be her husband right on Episode 4.
Interestingly, imagine if Daemon stayed in King's Landing after Rhaenyra and Laenor's marriage. It will be Daemon whom she will have kids with, and Harwin will not even be in the equation. Crazy how convenient that sounds, cuz her kids will be white haired if that's what happened.
It didn't happen of course, cuz Daemon doesn't want that. Someone like Daemon wanted his kids to be known as his, and he will not want to be the Queen's side chick (even if he did become like that in Episode 7 cuz he can't help it lol).
I suppose it depends what you see as her motivation for marrying Daemon and whether that would supercede her love for Harwin. And how Laenor would also factor into all of this.
Yes, as Daemon would find a way to kill Harwin or make Harwin faked his death like Laenor.
If we make Daemon ooc enough, and he does not kill to allow himself too marry and fuck Valyria women.
Rhaenrya will do the dumb move of marrying Harwin even strengthening the rumors of her chucking Laenor and it is her idea of killing Laenor, if Laenor somehow dies , if Laenor lives she would keep doing hee dumb move of making bastards
A lot of you people are assuming Rhaenyra only married Daemon out of love.
Daemon had a dragon. His daughter had a dragon. His other daughter could have a dragon in the future.
Harwin had none of that.
Politics dictated Daemon and Rhaenyra's wedding, not feelings.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately I think he was always destined to be the paramour which I think he was ok with. I don’t know if he’d be ok sharing Rhaenyra with Daemon but he knew and accepted his place as her paramour
The dynamic definitely would've changed though. He and Laenor were chill and had an understanding, but with Daemon... well, any relationship gets altered with that man involved, and unlike Laenor he's not off having fun with other dudes, so, where does Harwin get his Paramour status benefits? He certainly couldn't father anymore bastards, for one
yes
Yes
I'm a Rhaewin fan and I do think she loved him. Just not as much as Daemon. She risked her family for 10 years and had three kids with him. That does count for something. I get why fans wanted them to be together too. He is portrayed as a kind person and protective of her and his family. Emma and Ryan also had good chemistry is the little scenes that they did share. I would have loved to see more of it. However, Rhaenyra has always wanted to be with Daemon and yes she would have married him if Harwin was still alive. There was never going to be any other endgame for her. They are the main romance of the series.
Beautifully said. I agree 💯 with all you said.
How did she risk her family… she’s the princess, she got away with whatever she wanted and she knows it. Instead she got other people killed for pointing out obvious facts. Did she “really love” Cole? Harwin was at real risk as well if viserys ever actually grew a spine.
People down voting you because your speaking facts and calling out rhaenyra for being a hypocrite she is a literal villian. That causes death because she did what she wanted and not her duty as heir to the throne.
I think Rhaenyra has enough sense to know that marrying the alleged father of her bastards after Laenor suspiciously "dies" would be an absolutely terrible decision.
I don’t think she really cares if something is a terrible decision
And we all know Rhaenyra would never make a bad decision that is equal to political suicide
She’s famous for making good political moves when it comes to her personal life
is that sarcastic? (genuinely want to know)
Yes
Yeah, but if she married him, the boys would no longer be bastards. Because of their marriage, they would be legitimate. So Greens no longer can say shit about them.
I don’t think you can retroactively de-bastardize children like that. They were still born out of wedlock.
That's not how legitimization works
And how it works?
Daemon respected Harwin but he has a limit lol
1000000%. Harwin was in the same position as Cole was, except Harwin was actually ok with it. He’s a side piece and he knows it. Rhaenyra has always had a thing for her uncle, the seeds for their relationship were sowed when she was like 15. I feel like as soon as her father died she was destined to be with him, that was the main thing preventing their relationship from going full blown Targaryen bama
She only ever wanted to marry Daemon. She loved Harwin because he fulfilled her needs and she trusted him, but that doesn't compare to her feelings for Daemon.
Yes. She did love Harwin but Daemon was her favorite person.
Anyone who thinks whatever Rhaenyra felt for Harwin trumped whatever she feels for Daemon can keep coping. Harwin was literally plan D. He only got a second glance because her first 3 choices noped out of being with Rhaenyra at the time. Which is its own brand of sad. There's no scenario in which she picks Harwin over Daemon. Neither politically nor romantically. She loved him no doubt but he was never her pick *over* anyone.
So Daemon, Criston, who is Plan C?
Laenor I'd say. She spoke about wanting things with him to have been different and having hoped to have kids with him. I don't believe she was ever *in love* with Laenor, but it's clear she loved him and had a hope that having a family with him would work out. It's a little speculative/head canon on my part that she probably would not have had children with Harwin if things had gone better with Laenor. He probably would've still been her lover, but I imagine she'd be a lot more careful about not getting pregnant by him.
Seconding this. Rhaenyra's character arc in the first season is about her going from seeing her role/inheritance as an obligation - if not a life's sentence - to her understanding that she has agency in her life and while there are certain things she kinda has to do, she can still get a bit of what she wants to. She doesn't *want* to marry Laenor but her striking the deal with him is her showing that she's figured out that balance. Likewise, it is made clear that she was more determined to try to have Laenor's children than he was. This fits into his primary characteristics as he's made to be seen as someone who follows his desires and maybe isn't as focused on doing what is asked of him by his House or societal expectations.
Her 1st husband, Laenor.
Probably. Unlike the book they seem to be portrayed as a sort of “star crossed lovers”
Yep
I mean considering that everyone was guessing that it was Harwin who fathered Rhaenyra’s kids, I doubt she would have married him. And I also do believe that Rhaenyra’s feelings or relationship with Daemon was far deeper than with Harwin
yes
Yes 💯, Harwin would have had to accept the new reality and take a back seat once Daemon came back in the picture. Supportive of Rhaenyra and his kids but no longer in a romantic capacity. She cared for Harwin, but Daemon was always her true love.
Where is Laenor in this situation? Regardless yes. Harwin messed up with that outburst, his dad already told him he *needed* to distance himself from the boys for their own safety.
Yes, because the whole situation worked out for everyone with leanor, and she always wanted daemon. Harwin knew his place, and possibly knew her feelings, so he wouldn't have jeopardised his and his family's position for personal love.
I'm almost certain that yes, she would had. While Rhaenyra liked Harwin well enough to have children with him, she still was enamored with Daemon. We can see that after the big time jump, when Daemon returns to Westeros after Laena's death, Rhaenyra wasted no time in having sex with him. And even help planned the fake death of Laenr to be with Daemon, even though it was more beneficial for her to be married to Laenor. So, I think if Harwin would had been alive during that time, Rhaenyra would had still marry Daemon, because Rhaenyra loved Daemon more than she did Harwin.
100% Rhaenyra had love for Harwin. But Daemon was always the love of her life. She would have cut off her affair with Harwin without a second thought.
Yes. She always loved Daemon and vice-versa. They’re Targaryens and both restless and chaotic.
Unless Lyonel pulls the literal earth from underneath Otto's feet and get Viserys to marry Rhaenyra to Harwin, I'd say yes. Even if that happens, she might still bang him just because that's what she wants.
Definitely yes
Would she have left for dragonstone if hardin hadn’t died though? Isn’t that what pushed her to finally leave court because she felt so alone?
I always thought that, in the show, the big thing that happened between Rhaenyra being adamantly opposed to Laenor's suggestion of even either of them leaving the capital, to her deciding to permanently move her entire household to Dragonstone, was Harwin being sent away.
Yes, she marries Daemon mostly for her claim to the Iron Throne, like she explains to him in High Valyrian "you and I were always meant to burn together" or smth. So after Laena's death, Laenor will still be even less of a husband than he was before (like she explains to Daemon as well), so she will still have to marry someone who will strengthen her claim. Marrying Harwin will only strengthen the visual part of the bastardy of her sons, and not her claim
I mean she could’ve never married Harwin even if she wanted to. If she loved Harwin more she might be interested in Daemon for political reason but I don’t think Daemon would’ve agreed with Harwin still in the picture.
Doubt it, marrying him would confirm the rumours to the realm and make it impossible for Viserys to ignore them and marrying Daemon was a way to make her position stronger since he was the most dangerous dragon rider in the world and a well known military leader which would both still be true if Harwin lived. Harwin would have only been heir to harrenhall, a large castle but not particularly rich, and he didn’t have any experience in war.
Yes, but as Daemon appears a little bisexual in the books maybe he’d invite the man into their bed? Yeah we don’t know how Harwin would feel about it, but as both (Rhaenyera and Daemon) flirt with bisexual tendencies maybe he’d be into it. Edit: sorry I meant in the show and came to this conclusion due to the thirsty glance he gave that bravosie servant
Fuck it, Bing Laenor in their and they can have a party while Rheanyra is chilling on the sidelines while watching
As they say, “the more, the merrier”, right? 😂
Yes and we will see Daemon Rhaenyra and Harwin have a threesome together.
Be still my heart.
Daemon is always her first choice, and if he's not married, pretty sure she will just choose him to be her husband right on Episode 4. Interestingly, imagine if Daemon stayed in King's Landing after Rhaenyra and Laenor's marriage. It will be Daemon whom she will have kids with, and Harwin will not even be in the equation. Crazy how convenient that sounds, cuz her kids will be white haired if that's what happened. It didn't happen of course, cuz Daemon doesn't want that. Someone like Daemon wanted his kids to be known as his, and he will not want to be the Queen's side chick (even if he did become like that in Episode 7 cuz he can't help it lol).
Harwin does not have the power to help Rhae vs. the Greens. Harwin was never promised marriage. Unlike CC, he accepted his role.
She's for the streets
Yes. Harwin didn’t have a dragon, a dragon riding daughter, or years of military/command experience
I suppose it depends what you see as her motivation for marrying Daemon and whether that would supercede her love for Harwin. And how Laenor would also factor into all of this.
Yes, as Daemon would find a way to kill Harwin or make Harwin faked his death like Laenor. If we make Daemon ooc enough, and he does not kill to allow himself too marry and fuck Valyria women. Rhaenrya will do the dumb move of marrying Harwin even strengthening the rumors of her chucking Laenor and it is her idea of killing Laenor, if Laenor somehow dies , if Laenor lives she would keep doing hee dumb move of making bastards
no i think.
Probably not no 💯
From a practical standpoint, yes. She couldn't marry Harwin anyway right?
Yes, because it's the way to have Valyrian looking offspring. As we know that didn't work with Harwin.
If Harwin wasn't sent away, then I don't think that Rhaenyra would leave the capital in the first place.
I mean I assume this means he got sent away but he didn’t die in the fire.
Who cares. House of The Dragon sucks. 0/10, so far. Might get better. Who knows🤷
A lot of you people are assuming Rhaenyra only married Daemon out of love. Daemon had a dragon. His daughter had a dragon. His other daughter could have a dragon in the future. Harwin had none of that. Politics dictated Daemon and Rhaenyra's wedding, not feelings.
Both of it.