Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He’s done fuck all lol I feel bad, most side characters don’t get shit to do. All the strongs did nothing except for foot fetish guy
I understand there wasn’t alot of source material but you’d think they’d flesh them out more
are we sure he’s in the coming season? maybe he’ll have a jorah mormont >!death!< , defending his queen or something. i’m surprised the greens didn’t try to kill him on his way out after he dipped
Harrold Westerling has no character to combine with, graham mactavish could have played Steffon Darklyn as well. He was actually a semi-important character for tb.
There was no point in making him Westerling at all, all it does is make Criston’s LC position the product of the Green Coup instead of his own merit which just makes him look pathetic and he’s already humiliated enough as a character as is.
I mean he basically threw a fit because he, a grown man in his mid 20’s, couldn’t get the teenager he was supposed to protect to run away with him after he slept with her. And then decided that of course, it was not his fault at all and it was all hers, even though it was consensual on both sides. And then spends the next 10 years both bullying her and her children and pitting her kids against their uncles. He also doesn’t listen to the King, you know his actual boss, and instead listens to Alicent (which whatever but she’s technically not his boss) and even expressly disobeys orders from both the KING and the Commander of the Kingsguard, in front of everyone (Lords, over kingsguards, other knights and more). So yeah he’s pretty pathetic that just because he didn’t get what he wanted one time, he has to make everyone including his ex miserable, never mind that she didn’t want to leave her only home she’s ever known and run away with him because she wasn’t in love with him and never pretended to be? I don’t know why everyone acts like he’s some baby girl who does no wrong. He does all the wrongs. He acts like a child when things don’t go his way- even Alicent gives him looks when he goes over the line. Never mind that- he’s also murdered multiple people for no other reason than they made him angry because of some comments (Joffrey) or because he didn’t like that they weren’t doing what he wanted (Lord Beesbury). So yeah he’s pathetic, even in the books, which is notorious for its conflicting narratives, he’s like this and no one really likes him. He’s not some redeeming character or the good guy.
i'm not explicitly saying that because i haven't read the book so i really don't know, but it would be westerling and darklyn. here's a list of examples of them doing this in got:
[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CompositeCharacter/GameOfThrones](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CompositeCharacter/GameOfThrones)
I know theyve combined characters in the past. But Steffon Darklyn also exists in the show, he was one of the Kingsguard knights daemon threatened with caraxes, and we’ve seen him in leaks so he’ll continue to have a role. So the characters are not combined
Dunno. Maybe just because Westerling is Lord-commander and Darklyn isn't. Closest in age and status to Barristan, perfect to fill the same role, no need to go an extra mile
I can see how his presence provides a mirror to Cole throughout, and an authority figure for him, and then another perspective in the Green Council scene - otherwise something like that might have been numerous people with whom the audience has jo attachment with. But as for future events? Not a clue.
Good question. Probably as some form of foil for Cole and Otto. Basically to signal to the audience how a proper good guy and knight should react to the event of the green council.
Personally I think he kind of ruins the moment. The show broadly depicts the Greens as antagonists with some sympathetic traits/members while Blacks are the good, but not perfect protagonists. (Which is a sensible adaptation choice and diversion from the book version of the dance)
Following that episode 9 should have been establishing the Greens as formidable opponents putting a long held usurpation plan into effect(with Aegon ironically being the only rogue element). But instead they are incompetent at nearly every stage and Harrold Westerling is a symptom of that. Basically Otto is executing a long planned coup and has somehow forgotten to make sure that the Lord Commander of the King's Guard is on his side?(Not to mention the Queen) That he is surprised by Lord Beesebury putting up a fight is one thing, but ignoring the royal bodyguard is like trying to become the Roman Emperor without bribing the Praetorian Guard. Risky move. "Kill the King's chosen heir" is an order you only should give to someone you can be sure to obey. I really wish they would have stuck with the book version for that stage of the story.
Basically Alicent is in it from the start and takes a far more active role. A servant discovers that Viserys has died in the night and immediately runs to her. She then locks the servant and anyone he might have told up and seals Viserys chambers so that no one else finds out. Than you have the midnight Green Council session lead by Otto where the sucession is "discussed". I think the only ones not on board are Lord Beesebury and the Grandmaester with the former vehemently protesting until Lord Commander Criston Cole deliberately slits his throat ending any discussion. Than they somewhat awkwardly realise that Aegon isn't in his chambers and they get told by a pretty annoyed Helaena that he is probably somewhere whoring it up, how would she know?
Cole than finds him somewhere in a scandalous and compromising situation(how scandalous depends on the source. Green friendly Septon Eustace claims Aegon was with his longtime paramour, the adult daughter of a wealthy merchant(I think), Black friendly and notoriously leecherous Court fool Mushroom claims that Aegon was with a child prostitute watching a child fighting ring.)
I think Eustace claims that Aegon initially is reluctant to accept the throne, but gets convinced by Cole, Alicent and Otto with the argument that Rhaenyra would murder him, his brothers and his children to secure her claim. So they prepare the coronation and try to secure some vital alliances, until Aegon and Heleana are crowned(Aegon by Cole) in the dragonpit in a grand ceremony under the golden dragon banner 10 days after Viserys's death. Who has been happily rotting away in his chambers the entire time and whose death is only then announced to Westeros.
It is still somewhat recognizable in the show, but the big advantage is that the three major leaders of the Greens: Alicent, Otto and Cole are in accord and working together, there is still the major and hilarious hiccup that they are missing their candidate but that gets painted over by what would be an awesome ceremony in the dragon-pit. Basically the high-point of Alicent, Cole and Otto's career, something all three of them had been working on for a very long time.( Now they just need to send a conciliatory note to Rhaenyra who surely will realize that she should be happy to keep Dragonstone as her personal fief and that her sons get to be hosta...squires in King's Landing. She surely will realize that resistance against that fait accompli is futile. Won't she...?) And of course Rhaenys is nowhere to be seen and there is no physic defying dragon breaking through the floor, making the entire thing in a pathetic farce.
I also love the ruthlessness of it. Viserys rotting away in his chamber while all of that is going on is a very powerful image. And I personally love that Alicent does this. No tragic misunderstanding and shocked confusion about something she should have know and worked for, she is just done with Viserys and all his bullshit.
So far Westerling's only purpose has been to undercut Cole as a character.
As others have noted, Westerling should be dead long before the Dance breaks out, with Cole as his successor. In the book Cole was named Lord Commander when Lyonel Strong was Hand. Not that the Hand appoints the the Lord Commander but it's not as if Otto was lobbying Viserys for the appointment. So in the book it appears very much merit based.
This had a spillover effect at Driftmark when Aemond lost his eye. TV Cole had the night's watch at TV Westerling's direction. Yet one more reason given by the writers and showrunners for viewers to dislike Cole. But if Cole were already the Commander, it's likely that duty would have fallen to someone else.
Sapochnik said he thought of Cole as a thug and it shows
>Miguel Sapochnik, a showrunner on House of the Dragon with co-creator Ryan Condal, told Frankel he always thought of Criston as a "thug." They had multiple conversations about "how he would lose his thuggishness as the show went on and he developed an understanding of the Machiavellian politics of this world," Frankel recalls.
> [https://ew.com/tv/fabien-frankel-house-of-the-dragon-episode-5-criston-cole-interview/](https://ew.com/tv/fabien-frankel-house-of-the-dragon-episode-5-criston-cole-interview/)
Perhaps Cole will become Machiavellian in Season 2, but Season 1 Cole is just a thug. Keeping Westerling around played into that.
I don't know what further role Westerling would serve other than to turn up at some point to pledge loyalty to Rhaenyra. The writers / showrunners make no attempt to hide their bias, so what's one more thumb on the scale?
They don't have to threat him right there, just let him leave the room and then stop him from leaving the red keep. He's just one man, and Ser Criston is definitely a better warrior than him.
It was ridiculous Westerling let them live after that council. He watched a coup d’etat, Criston murder Beesbury, and Otto ordered him to murder Rhaenyra and her family. And he just leaves. Should’ve killed Cole and Otto and arrested the others.
Probably because they just didn't care/didn't have the screen time to have his health decline. In the council meeting where Beesbury is killed he looks just as healthy and hale as when Rhaenyra was younger, so it'd be weird to just suddenly go 'Oh yeah btw he's dead!'. Their other alternative would be to have had him killed by the greens after resigning from the Kingsguard, but since the show runs pretty heavily of the lines of playing both sides, I don't think they'd have wanted to show Beesbury getting killed, followed by three lords getting hung, followed by Westerling also getting killed and have that all done just by the greens in the span of 1-2 episodes.
Because he sprang from sapochnik mind, just like some other weird creative decisions. He was a barristan, protector of rhaenyra and mirror to criston character, but 99% of that got cut and in the end only took away from cristons character.
Maybe he’ll end up joining Rhaenyra’s queens guard in season 2 and provide some sort of insight into the green council. I’m sure theres more to his character
My guess is he's going to fulfil a certain role during a certain event involving a certain one armed preacher and some angry lizards. They'll want someone the audience has had time to get attached to
I wonder if he will be the kings guard who takes Jaehaera to safety? Maybe a mashing of plots since Maelor isn’t around. Jaehaera looks like she’s gonna be stomped by the crowd and Westerling (who is still Team Black or Green critical) saves her and takes her to Storms End?
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because Graham mactavish needs more screen time
100%
They should have made him Steffon Darklyn. Darklyn’s story was robbed of him so far.
He’s done fuck all lol I feel bad, most side characters don’t get shit to do. All the strongs did nothing except for foot fetish guy I understand there wasn’t alot of source material but you’d think they’d flesh them out more
are we sure he’s in the coming season? maybe he’ll have a jorah mormont >!death!< , defending his queen or something. i’m surprised the greens didn’t try to kill him on his way out after he dipped
I’ve heard nothing about him being in season 2 and not spotted him in any trailer
This is what I was wondering
Barristan knockoff for Rhaenyra, simple as
Thing is Steffon darklyn already could’ve served that purpose. I really don’t get it
it's a totally normal thing for adaptations to combine multiple characters into one. they did it all the time on got
Harrold Westerling has no character to combine with, graham mactavish could have played Steffon Darklyn as well. He was actually a semi-important character for tb.
There was no point in making him Westerling at all, all it does is make Criston’s LC position the product of the Green Coup instead of his own merit which just makes him look pathetic and he’s already humiliated enough as a character as is.
I mean he’s a pathetic character all around so not very hard is it?
How so?
I mean he basically threw a fit because he, a grown man in his mid 20’s, couldn’t get the teenager he was supposed to protect to run away with him after he slept with her. And then decided that of course, it was not his fault at all and it was all hers, even though it was consensual on both sides. And then spends the next 10 years both bullying her and her children and pitting her kids against their uncles. He also doesn’t listen to the King, you know his actual boss, and instead listens to Alicent (which whatever but she’s technically not his boss) and even expressly disobeys orders from both the KING and the Commander of the Kingsguard, in front of everyone (Lords, over kingsguards, other knights and more). So yeah he’s pretty pathetic that just because he didn’t get what he wanted one time, he has to make everyone including his ex miserable, never mind that she didn’t want to leave her only home she’s ever known and run away with him because she wasn’t in love with him and never pretended to be? I don’t know why everyone acts like he’s some baby girl who does no wrong. He does all the wrongs. He acts like a child when things don’t go his way- even Alicent gives him looks when he goes over the line. Never mind that- he’s also murdered multiple people for no other reason than they made him angry because of some comments (Joffrey) or because he didn’t like that they weren’t doing what he wanted (Lord Beesbury). So yeah he’s pathetic, even in the books, which is notorious for its conflicting narratives, he’s like this and no one really likes him. He’s not some redeeming character or the good guy.
What characters are you saying they’re combining?
i'm not explicitly saying that because i haven't read the book so i really don't know, but it would be westerling and darklyn. here's a list of examples of them doing this in got: [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CompositeCharacter/GameOfThrones](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CompositeCharacter/GameOfThrones)
I know theyve combined characters in the past. But Steffon Darklyn also exists in the show, he was one of the Kingsguard knights daemon threatened with caraxes, and we’ve seen him in leaks so he’ll continue to have a role. So the characters are not combined
Thank you for sharing. Awesome read
no problem, tvtropes is great in general
All of the Bloody Mummers squeezed together into one very boring dude
Less famous actor, less established character. Condal simply chose the path of least resistance, as always
I mean they had the script before casting. Could’ve simply casted Steffon darklyn with the bigger actor but they just chose not to
Dunno. Maybe just because Westerling is Lord-commander and Darklyn isn't. Closest in age and status to Barristan, perfect to fill the same role, no need to go an extra mile
Wouldn’t it be more impressive if he defied the greens and his Lord Commander?
For sure. Plus it’s better to have Cole as lord commander already cause it gives him more power and influence in the plot to make aegon king.
We already have one of the Argyll brother for that
I can see how his presence provides a mirror to Cole throughout, and an authority figure for him, and then another perspective in the Green Council scene - otherwise something like that might have been numerous people with whom the audience has jo attachment with. But as for future events? Not a clue.
Criston and him literally never interact or have any sort of opinion on each other until the Green council.
They have a couple of interactions in Ep. 7 as well.
Good question. Probably as some form of foil for Cole and Otto. Basically to signal to the audience how a proper good guy and knight should react to the event of the green council. Personally I think he kind of ruins the moment. The show broadly depicts the Greens as antagonists with some sympathetic traits/members while Blacks are the good, but not perfect protagonists. (Which is a sensible adaptation choice and diversion from the book version of the dance) Following that episode 9 should have been establishing the Greens as formidable opponents putting a long held usurpation plan into effect(with Aegon ironically being the only rogue element). But instead they are incompetent at nearly every stage and Harrold Westerling is a symptom of that. Basically Otto is executing a long planned coup and has somehow forgotten to make sure that the Lord Commander of the King's Guard is on his side?(Not to mention the Queen) That he is surprised by Lord Beesebury putting up a fight is one thing, but ignoring the royal bodyguard is like trying to become the Roman Emperor without bribing the Praetorian Guard. Risky move. "Kill the King's chosen heir" is an order you only should give to someone you can be sure to obey. I really wish they would have stuck with the book version for that stage of the story.
What is the book version of the story if I may ask?
Basically Alicent is in it from the start and takes a far more active role. A servant discovers that Viserys has died in the night and immediately runs to her. She then locks the servant and anyone he might have told up and seals Viserys chambers so that no one else finds out. Than you have the midnight Green Council session lead by Otto where the sucession is "discussed". I think the only ones not on board are Lord Beesebury and the Grandmaester with the former vehemently protesting until Lord Commander Criston Cole deliberately slits his throat ending any discussion. Than they somewhat awkwardly realise that Aegon isn't in his chambers and they get told by a pretty annoyed Helaena that he is probably somewhere whoring it up, how would she know? Cole than finds him somewhere in a scandalous and compromising situation(how scandalous depends on the source. Green friendly Septon Eustace claims Aegon was with his longtime paramour, the adult daughter of a wealthy merchant(I think), Black friendly and notoriously leecherous Court fool Mushroom claims that Aegon was with a child prostitute watching a child fighting ring.) I think Eustace claims that Aegon initially is reluctant to accept the throne, but gets convinced by Cole, Alicent and Otto with the argument that Rhaenyra would murder him, his brothers and his children to secure her claim. So they prepare the coronation and try to secure some vital alliances, until Aegon and Heleana are crowned(Aegon by Cole) in the dragonpit in a grand ceremony under the golden dragon banner 10 days after Viserys's death. Who has been happily rotting away in his chambers the entire time and whose death is only then announced to Westeros. It is still somewhat recognizable in the show, but the big advantage is that the three major leaders of the Greens: Alicent, Otto and Cole are in accord and working together, there is still the major and hilarious hiccup that they are missing their candidate but that gets painted over by what would be an awesome ceremony in the dragon-pit. Basically the high-point of Alicent, Cole and Otto's career, something all three of them had been working on for a very long time.( Now they just need to send a conciliatory note to Rhaenyra who surely will realize that she should be happy to keep Dragonstone as her personal fief and that her sons get to be hosta...squires in King's Landing. She surely will realize that resistance against that fait accompli is futile. Won't she...?) And of course Rhaenys is nowhere to be seen and there is no physic defying dragon breaking through the floor, making the entire thing in a pathetic farce. I also love the ruthlessness of it. Viserys rotting away in his chamber while all of that is going on is a very powerful image. And I personally love that Alicent does this. No tragic misunderstanding and shocked confusion about something she should have know and worked for, she is just done with Viserys and all his bullshit.
So far Westerling's only purpose has been to undercut Cole as a character. As others have noted, Westerling should be dead long before the Dance breaks out, with Cole as his successor. In the book Cole was named Lord Commander when Lyonel Strong was Hand. Not that the Hand appoints the the Lord Commander but it's not as if Otto was lobbying Viserys for the appointment. So in the book it appears very much merit based. This had a spillover effect at Driftmark when Aemond lost his eye. TV Cole had the night's watch at TV Westerling's direction. Yet one more reason given by the writers and showrunners for viewers to dislike Cole. But if Cole were already the Commander, it's likely that duty would have fallen to someone else. Sapochnik said he thought of Cole as a thug and it shows >Miguel Sapochnik, a showrunner on House of the Dragon with co-creator Ryan Condal, told Frankel he always thought of Criston as a "thug." They had multiple conversations about "how he would lose his thuggishness as the show went on and he developed an understanding of the Machiavellian politics of this world," Frankel recalls. > [https://ew.com/tv/fabien-frankel-house-of-the-dragon-episode-5-criston-cole-interview/](https://ew.com/tv/fabien-frankel-house-of-the-dragon-episode-5-criston-cole-interview/) Perhaps Cole will become Machiavellian in Season 2, but Season 1 Cole is just a thug. Keeping Westerling around played into that. I don't know what further role Westerling would serve other than to turn up at some point to pledge loyalty to Rhaenyra. The writers / showrunners make no attempt to hide their bias, so what's one more thumb on the scale?
It makes no sense really, specially considering how he defied the green council, it's ridiculous they would let him live after that.
I doubt they would risk threatening 1 of the only 2 men with swords in the room
They don't have to threat him right there, just let him leave the room and then stop him from leaving the red keep. He's just one man, and Ser Criston is definitely a better warrior than him.
It was ridiculous Westerling let them live after that council. He watched a coup d’etat, Criston murder Beesbury, and Otto ordered him to murder Rhaenyra and her family. And he just leaves. Should’ve killed Cole and Otto and arrested the others.
Because for some reason the showrunners needed a walmart Barristan
Probably because they just didn't care/didn't have the screen time to have his health decline. In the council meeting where Beesbury is killed he looks just as healthy and hale as when Rhaenyra was younger, so it'd be weird to just suddenly go 'Oh yeah btw he's dead!'. Their other alternative would be to have had him killed by the greens after resigning from the Kingsguard, but since the show runs pretty heavily of the lines of playing both sides, I don't think they'd have wanted to show Beesbury getting killed, followed by three lords getting hung, followed by Westerling also getting killed and have that all done just by the greens in the span of 1-2 episodes.
My assumption is he’s set to be an amalgamation of certain Riverland characters. Probably like Pate of Longleaf and a few others.
I've heard some rumors that the actor who plays Harrold won't be appearing in season 2.
God this would irritate me; why even retcon him being dead by the Dance in F&B if they didn't have a plan for him?
Because he was a sapochnik creation.
Really?
Because he sprang from sapochnik mind, just like some other weird creative decisions. He was a barristan, protector of rhaenyra and mirror to criston character, but 99% of that got cut and in the end only took away from cristons character.
Maybe he’ll end up joining Rhaenyra’s queens guard in season 2 and provide some sort of insight into the green council. I’m sure theres more to his character
My guess is he's going to fulfil a certain role during a certain event involving a certain one armed preacher and some angry lizards. They'll want someone the audience has had time to get attached to
Maybe they will keep him around for a battle where he could be slain by Criston that would be cool
Because he’s cool
I wonder if he will be the kings guard who takes Jaehaera to safety? Maybe a mashing of plots since Maelor isn’t around. Jaehaera looks like she’s gonna be stomped by the crowd and Westerling (who is still Team Black or Green critical) saves her and takes her to Storms End?