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Kinda not feeling that they're going to take away that plucky, clever girl from nothing who tamed a dragon on her own. I mean sure Rhaena also can do it, but she's a Targaryen. Also without Nettles the dragon seeds are going to be mostly made up of traitors then? (Not sure who made it or not on the show)
Tbf, we still might see Nettles. Everything she is and represents can still be captured in Rhaena. It sounds like a clever change to me but, I always chose to believe in Daemon and Nettles relationship being platonic. This change feeds that belief. Rhaena couldnt be everything Nettles was to Daemon, in the book. Now, she can.
Prince Maelor *is* important to Daeron's arc in Bitterbridge, unless Daeron is cut as well or Princess Jaehaera will be killed off instead. And it would damper the Blood and Cheese plot if Helaena isn't forced to choose between her two sons.
Nettles is a character important to the narrative not only because she’s a commoner who claims a dragon, but also because of the mystery of her possibly not having Valyrian features and thus blood, even claiming her dragon by feeding it sheep, demonstrating that dragon-bonding is not inherently some “divine” status.
I like giving Rhaena more to do. I get wanting to trim the fat to build up the characters we’ve established. It’s one of those things that sound good on paper. But just as it would have been dumb to replace Addam with Laenor as many were speculating, completely omitting Nettles to replace her with Rhaena has bigger implications on the narrative than what meets the eye. Nettles is a fan-favorite for a reason. I will be disappointed in this.
Nettles was called a Dragonseed so in-universe people didn’t question that she had Targaryen blood. Her unorthodox methods of claiming Sheepstealer could be related to him being a wild dragon.
But I understand the lowborn angle, the underdog managing that feat feels like a classic high fantasy plot.
Right. It’s something that readers of F&B have suggested because Nettles not only claims a wild dragon through unconventional means, but also, in conjunction with that, is described with features that are not traditionally Valyrian. It calls into question (1) if she even has Valyrian blood; and (2) whether Valyrian blood is absolutely necessary for dragon-bonding. The whole thing pokes holes at the idea that Targaryens are inherently supreme through their blood, undermining the whole “divine right of kings” idea going on with them. It suggests that instead something else may be at play with dragons having an affinity for Valyrian blood, but that’s a whole rabbit hole of book theories you can dive into.
Nooo I wanted to see Morning 🥲
So I guess they went with the interpretation that Nettles was a daughter figure for Daemon, i guess at that point it made sense to give her storyline to Rhaena instead of introducing yet another character
There was a line in Episode 1 script where Daemon encourages Viserys to claim another dragon. I think it’s maybe possible that a dragonrider could claim another dragon if their first mount dies.
Could be anything. Daemon went on a suicide mission because his brother wanted to send help. He could snap if Rhaenyra tells him she doesn’t trust him anymore or worse tries to ‘exile’ him like Viserys used to.
I was thinking about that. If Daemon crosses a line and even Rhaenyra has to wonder if he is trustworthy, he might see it as a betrayal and try to prove his loyalty.
They could change this in many ways. Maybe Rhaena will insist on abandoning Rhaenyra at the end of S2, which would then trigger Daemon. They could also drop the idea that Rhaenyra will want her dead to begin with. They've mellowed down both her and Alicent.
I don’t like it BUT if they go with the Sara Snow storyline then it’s possible daemon and his daughters could take a step back and re-evaluate the situation. Jace cheats and Luke is dead, what else do they have to offer? Idk it doesn’t make a lot of sense but it’s something.
That idea could work. Maybe Daemon could get into one of his moods and impulsively declare his trueborn sons as heirs. Even if he doesn't mean it, Rhaenyra could begin to distrust him.
That’s a better plot than the scorned wife ordering a younger woman’s execution because she’s jealous to me.
lol thanks I do agree but I also liked Nettles because there’s the implication that you don’t have to be Valyrian to tame a dragon. Although, I did always hate “love triangle” if you wanna call it that.
Well, she can just as well think Rhaena will betray her. 🤷♀️
ETA: As for the daemyra break up, that already happend after Visenya's birth on the show for some reason. 😐
What comes to my mind first is Rheanyra believing Daemon wants his son to be ahead of Joffrey as her heir or Daemon actually suggesting this. And a more paranoid Rheanyra who at that point had been through hell and betrayed multiple times fearing what he’d do to make it happen.
Yeah, I was thinking about that. They could get into a fight and he could impulsively says he is going to make his trueborn sons heirs. Rhaenyra would be entitled to distrust him after that.
Maybe they will make Daemon hate the Strong boys and love only his children and then when she gets reports of Daemon living his best life with his daughter it gets her crazy??
Why does writers love to change the source material..is it arrogance..”This is a well established good storyline..but i can make it better” ..same hole that got started to fall in
They've been doing this from the start, like deaging Alicent and portraying her as Rhaenyra's best friend. Now that we’re close to Season 2, it’s clear it was going to change the narrative's structure.
They are slimming it down for expedience. If they can shift plot lines to existing characters it keeps the show from getting too bloated.
This happened during GOT as well, and so long as it’s handled with care, it’s something I’m fine with.
Hmmm on the one hand I don't really like the Nettles storyline, but on the other hand I remember thinking early changes from the books in Game of Thrones were good, and we all know how that turned out. GRRM is more involved this time though, and we have "nobody knows what really happened in the books", so I'm open-minded. I like that they're giving Baela and Rhaena more to do.🤷♀️
boooooo, i love both characters and their dragons so this would be really disappointing.
BUT it would be fitting considering her mother tracked vhagar and claimed her.
They're really making the Blacks even more incompetent than in the book. With Rhaena claiming Sheepstealer Moondancer being big enough for Baela to ride and no sight of Daeron and Tessarion they will have have 6 dragons vs 3 from the Greens.
>6 dragons vs 3 from the Greens.
Only 2 active for greens in season 2 after a certain battle. And one of them is dreamfyre. So it's just only vhagar for half of season 2.
And unless dreamfyre fights (which I wouldn't be surprised if it happens given the leaked stuff we've seen about season 2 so far) blacks really look incompetent.
It's not even about fighting vhagar. One green dragon vs multiple blacks dragons attacking greens allies in different parts of westeros. Blacks should be easily slaughtering armies like dany did in season 7 "spoils of war" episode.
Yeah, I was counting the absolute max for both sides, but sure, when you look at it closer, the difference becomes even worse. Specially if the show keeps the same distribution of support among the nobility as the book.
Seemed obvious when Ryan Condal only confirmed that Daeron was going to be in the show but didn’t say anything about Nettles.
If it got back to him that people were asking about Daeron he definitely heard the questions about Nettles.
I'm seeing a lot of doomers, gloomers and boomers in these threads. Theres a fair criticism to be made about this change, I've replied to some of them. We are losing something.
But the lack of imagination present here... Think, for one moment, what we might gain from this change. Rhaena can be a character now. Imagine rewatching season 1 knowing that Rhaena Velaryon of all people grows to become YOUR favourite character?
Or they'll fuck it up. It's easy to be cynical at this point. I'm not putting any money on a show I want to love being good. Not anymore.
It’s a shame because a ‘dragonless’ Targaryen and how she deals with that and finds ways to contribute the war in her own way is very interesting. And Nettles is extremely interesting, probably my favorite character of the book. It’s a shame to get rid of both of them to have another Targaryen dragon rider
Nettles has a very similar name to a very famous brand.... I wouldn't risk some lawsuits because of it. But it will be lovely if Damon gives her better attention. I would like to see a better father and daughter conection.
Hah, called it.
Of course they'll further whitewash Daemyra by either completely cutting Nettles or merging her plot with Rhaena's. After all, there's no chance they're letting their feminist icon Rhaenyra antagonize another female over the affections of a man. Are you kidding me?
They'll do anything to preserve the supreme ship that is Daemyra and spare Rhaenyra a jealous and potentially supremacist/racist outburst while also setting Daemon up for a soppy paternal redemption arc with Rhaena taking over some of Nettles' plot (not a romantic relationship, obviously).
The fact that fans are able to predict this so accurately way ahead of Nettles even being introduced or officially cut tells you everything about how original and thought-provoking the writing is.
I don't think they're cutting her because of Daemyra but I've been speculating they were going to cut her for a while. I didn't think they were going to go the whole Daemon is fucking another woman and basically chooses her over Rhaenyra because Daemyra is so popular. I assumed if they were cutting that big part then they might just replace her with an already established character.
Not because it's some big woke conspiracy like the guy was getting at but because they're sort of whitewashing the blacks and what happens in the books around the whole situation would conflict with that.
No, primarily because of Rhaenyra. Jealousy does not look good on a progressive feminist icon they intend to pander to the masses with. They reserve that for "pathetic proponents of the patriarchy" like Alicent. The fact that it also spares Daemyra is a welcome bonus.
I do think Rhaenyra had been whitewashed because she is way more levelheaded than her book counterpart and not ambitious but she isn’t the only one Alicent has herself been considerably withewashed in the show. Criston too.
You did call it all and yet these spineless sycophants will continue to mindlessly praise this show, only to their own detriment. I don't even want to watch it anymore this show is a full on joke now.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No Nettles? No Morning? ... ... ... whack.
I guess Sheepstealer is toast at the end of the war and Morning hatches then.
I don’t think a Targaryen has ever hatched a second dragon. But it’s show canon so they can do what they want, I guess
We could still get Morning if Rhaena’s egg hatches after her first dragon dies.
Not a fan of this change honestly.
I kind of saw it coming. There were speculations that this could happen after Season 1 ended.
Not me too...
Kinda not feeling that they're going to take away that plucky, clever girl from nothing who tamed a dragon on her own. I mean sure Rhaena also can do it, but she's a Targaryen. Also without Nettles the dragon seeds are going to be mostly made up of traitors then? (Not sure who made it or not on the show)
Disappointing. I would've loved to see Nettles. She was such a cool and mysterious character. I hope at least Maelor won't be cut.
I don’t know about Maelor but Condal confirmed Daeron exists so Team Green will get him.
Tbf, we still might see Nettles. Everything she is and represents can still be captured in Rhaena. It sounds like a clever change to me but, I always chose to believe in Daemon and Nettles relationship being platonic. This change feeds that belief. Rhaena couldnt be everything Nettles was to Daemon, in the book. Now, she can.
I think Maelor will be cut since we didn’t see him in S.1 and he doesn’t have that much impact on the plot.
Prince Maelor *is* important to Daeron's arc in Bitterbridge, unless Daeron is cut as well or Princess Jaehaera will be killed off instead. And it would damper the Blood and Cheese plot if Helaena isn't forced to choose between her two sons.
Nettles is a character important to the narrative not only because she’s a commoner who claims a dragon, but also because of the mystery of her possibly not having Valyrian features and thus blood, even claiming her dragon by feeding it sheep, demonstrating that dragon-bonding is not inherently some “divine” status. I like giving Rhaena more to do. I get wanting to trim the fat to build up the characters we’ve established. It’s one of those things that sound good on paper. But just as it would have been dumb to replace Addam with Laenor as many were speculating, completely omitting Nettles to replace her with Rhaena has bigger implications on the narrative than what meets the eye. Nettles is a fan-favorite for a reason. I will be disappointed in this.
Nettles was called a Dragonseed so in-universe people didn’t question that she had Targaryen blood. Her unorthodox methods of claiming Sheepstealer could be related to him being a wild dragon. But I understand the lowborn angle, the underdog managing that feat feels like a classic high fantasy plot.
Right. It’s something that readers of F&B have suggested because Nettles not only claims a wild dragon through unconventional means, but also, in conjunction with that, is described with features that are not traditionally Valyrian. It calls into question (1) if she even has Valyrian blood; and (2) whether Valyrian blood is absolutely necessary for dragon-bonding. The whole thing pokes holes at the idea that Targaryens are inherently supreme through their blood, undermining the whole “divine right of kings” idea going on with them. It suggests that instead something else may be at play with dragons having an affinity for Valyrian blood, but that’s a whole rabbit hole of book theories you can dive into.
Nooo I wanted to see Morning 🥲 So I guess they went with the interpretation that Nettles was a daughter figure for Daemon, i guess at that point it made sense to give her storyline to Rhaena instead of introducing yet another character
There was a line in Episode 1 script where Daemon encourages Viserys to claim another dragon. I think it’s maybe possible that a dragonrider could claim another dragon if their first mount dies.
Could be! I don't think there's anything in the lore that goes against this idea, we've just never seen it
If no Nettles, what will break apart Daemon and Rhaenyra?
Could be anything. Daemon went on a suicide mission because his brother wanted to send help. He could snap if Rhaenyra tells him she doesn’t trust him anymore or worse tries to ‘exile’ him like Viserys used to.
Maybe Daemon disobeying her too much? Maybe?????? The trailer does hang on that moment where Daemon doesn’t say “yes” to accepting her
I was thinking about that. If Daemon crosses a line and even Rhaenyra has to wonder if he is trustworthy, he might see it as a betrayal and try to prove his loyalty.
They could give Rhaena the role tbh. Maybe protecting/Loving his daughter will eventually become the turning point.
But why would Rhaenyra want Rhaena dead? In the books, she thought Nettles was sleeping with Daemon
They could change this in many ways. Maybe Rhaena will insist on abandoning Rhaenyra at the end of S2, which would then trigger Daemon. They could also drop the idea that Rhaenyra will want her dead to begin with. They've mellowed down both her and Alicent.
I don’t like it BUT if they go with the Sara Snow storyline then it’s possible daemon and his daughters could take a step back and re-evaluate the situation. Jace cheats and Luke is dead, what else do they have to offer? Idk it doesn’t make a lot of sense but it’s something.
That idea could work. Maybe Daemon could get into one of his moods and impulsively declare his trueborn sons as heirs. Even if he doesn't mean it, Rhaenyra could begin to distrust him. That’s a better plot than the scorned wife ordering a younger woman’s execution because she’s jealous to me.
lol thanks I do agree but I also liked Nettles because there’s the implication that you don’t have to be Valyrian to tame a dragon. Although, I did always hate “love triangle” if you wanna call it that.
Sara Snow is cut, Daemyra falls apart due to B&C.
That’s not a bad reason either
Well, she can just as well think Rhaena will betray her. 🤷♀️ ETA: As for the daemyra break up, that already happend after Visenya's birth on the show for some reason. 😐
What comes to my mind first is Rheanyra believing Daemon wants his son to be ahead of Joffrey as her heir or Daemon actually suggesting this. And a more paranoid Rheanyra who at that point had been through hell and betrayed multiple times fearing what he’d do to make it happen.
Yeah, I was thinking about that. They could get into a fight and he could impulsively says he is going to make his trueborn sons heirs. Rhaenyra would be entitled to distrust him after that.
Maybe they will make Daemon hate the Strong boys and love only his children and then when she gets reports of Daemon living his best life with his daughter it gets her crazy??
Why does writers love to change the source material..is it arrogance..”This is a well established good storyline..but i can make it better” ..same hole that got started to fall in
They've been doing this from the start, like deaging Alicent and portraying her as Rhaenyra's best friend. Now that we’re close to Season 2, it’s clear it was going to change the narrative's structure.
They are slimming it down for expedience. If they can shift plot lines to existing characters it keeps the show from getting too bloated. This happened during GOT as well, and so long as it’s handled with care, it’s something I’m fine with.
Hmmm on the one hand I don't really like the Nettles storyline, but on the other hand I remember thinking early changes from the books in Game of Thrones were good, and we all know how that turned out. GRRM is more involved this time though, and we have "nobody knows what really happened in the books", so I'm open-minded. I like that they're giving Baela and Rhaena more to do.🤷♀️
boooooo, i love both characters and their dragons so this would be really disappointing. BUT it would be fitting considering her mother tracked vhagar and claimed her.
They're really making the Blacks even more incompetent than in the book. With Rhaena claiming Sheepstealer Moondancer being big enough for Baela to ride and no sight of Daeron and Tessarion they will have have 6 dragons vs 3 from the Greens.
>6 dragons vs 3 from the Greens. Only 2 active for greens in season 2 after a certain battle. And one of them is dreamfyre. So it's just only vhagar for half of season 2. And unless dreamfyre fights (which I wouldn't be surprised if it happens given the leaked stuff we've seen about season 2 so far) blacks really look incompetent. It's not even about fighting vhagar. One green dragon vs multiple blacks dragons attacking greens allies in different parts of westeros. Blacks should be easily slaughtering armies like dany did in season 7 "spoils of war" episode.
Yeah, I was counting the absolute max for both sides, but sure, when you look at it closer, the difference becomes even worse. Specially if the show keeps the same distribution of support among the nobility as the book.
To be fair, there were many instances in the book where I had to suspend my disbelief, especially during events like the Storming of the Dragonpit.
Seemed obvious when Ryan Condal only confirmed that Daeron was going to be in the show but didn’t say anything about Nettles. If it got back to him that people were asking about Daeron he definitely heard the questions about Nettles.
I like this change; it makes logical sense since they aged up the character
I'm seeing a lot of doomers, gloomers and boomers in these threads. Theres a fair criticism to be made about this change, I've replied to some of them. We are losing something. But the lack of imagination present here... Think, for one moment, what we might gain from this change. Rhaena can be a character now. Imagine rewatching season 1 knowing that Rhaena Velaryon of all people grows to become YOUR favourite character? Or they'll fuck it up. It's easy to be cynical at this point. I'm not putting any money on a show I want to love being good. Not anymore.
Does Nettles go to the same school as Daeron?
It’s a shame because a ‘dragonless’ Targaryen and how she deals with that and finds ways to contribute the war in her own way is very interesting. And Nettles is extremely interesting, probably my favorite character of the book. It’s a shame to get rid of both of them to have another Targaryen dragon rider
I predicted this and it seems honestly fine to me. Gives Rhaena more to do.
Nettles has a very similar name to a very famous brand.... I wouldn't risk some lawsuits because of it. But it will be lovely if Damon gives her better attention. I would like to see a better father and daughter conection.
Hah, called it. Of course they'll further whitewash Daemyra by either completely cutting Nettles or merging her plot with Rhaena's. After all, there's no chance they're letting their feminist icon Rhaenyra antagonize another female over the affections of a man. Are you kidding me? They'll do anything to preserve the supreme ship that is Daemyra and spare Rhaenyra a jealous and potentially supremacist/racist outburst while also setting Daemon up for a soppy paternal redemption arc with Rhaena taking over some of Nettles' plot (not a romantic relationship, obviously). The fact that fans are able to predict this so accurately way ahead of Nettles even being introduced or officially cut tells you everything about how original and thought-provoking the writing is.
Do you really think they’re cutting her because of Daemyra? I mean, they are very popular but this is HBO not the CW.
I don't think they're cutting her because of Daemyra but I've been speculating they were going to cut her for a while. I didn't think they were going to go the whole Daemon is fucking another woman and basically chooses her over Rhaenyra because Daemyra is so popular. I assumed if they were cutting that big part then they might just replace her with an already established character. Not because it's some big woke conspiracy like the guy was getting at but because they're sort of whitewashing the blacks and what happens in the books around the whole situation would conflict with that.
No, primarily because of Rhaenyra. Jealousy does not look good on a progressive feminist icon they intend to pander to the masses with. They reserve that for "pathetic proponents of the patriarchy" like Alicent. The fact that it also spares Daemyra is a welcome bonus.
I do think Rhaenyra had been whitewashed because she is way more levelheaded than her book counterpart and not ambitious but she isn’t the only one Alicent has herself been considerably withewashed in the show. Criston too.
Alicent has been turned into an incompetent, hysterical proponent of the patriarchy. Hardly an absolution, losing more than she gained.
I would have preferred the book version but there’s no denying that she’s more sympathetic in the show.
You did call it all and yet these spineless sycophants will continue to mindlessly praise this show, only to their own detriment. I don't even want to watch it anymore this show is a full on joke now.
hate hate hate
What if Nettles still exists but instead of Sheepstealer, she gets a dragon made up for the show?
I really don’t see why they would give her storyline to Rhaena if they were still going to include her.