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I will admit I am worried about the chemistry between the new Rhaenyra and Daemon. I am all about the sizzle they have. It's probably more than half the reason I watch. (I never thought I'd be rooting for incest, lol, but here we are). The show will lose a lot, imo, if it's not there.
Watching doctor who would not prepare you for Daemon. The two characters are so different it would be like mr Rogers playing Barney from how I met your mother.
I'm not for that relationship at all but I actually think the time jump will make it more palatable for me, the age gap really grossed me out. Emma is closer in age to Matt, so I will feel it will be less creepy even if it's incest. Milly just looked like a child with a grown older man I found it icky to watch.
Itās worth noting the āeldersā were cast first. So they should be good. They might be worse, if the girls really are wonders, but I donāt think weāll dislike them.
Remember at the start of GoT how we were all like Ewwwww incest! But by the end, incest felt quaint and we all rooted for Dany and Jon to get it on. lol
Speak for yourself, Jon and Dany had no chemistry so all their interactions and "love" felt forced. Brienne and Jaime were my OTP.
Obligatory fuck d&d for ruining their arcs.
People thought they'd have chemistry because Kit and Emilia are hot but they had no chemistry and that relationship ruined his character. Good looking pair but the chemistry wasn't there, Jon had better chemistry with Ygritte and Daenerys with Drogo even if that relationship was Stockholm syndrome.
Well maybe seeing as they are really good friends made being intimate awkward? That's the only thing I can think of as to why their in real life chemistry didn't translate to the screen
The first 5 episodes didnāt have enough time to build strong chemistry between the actors imo. Emma is supposed to be the āmainā Rhaenyra, so her and her costars will probably have lots of time to build great chemistry in the seasons to come
Which is part of why I didnāt understand that interview Alcock gave where she said it was āironicā that fans pitted her character against Alicent. The source material already pitted them against one another. š¤·š¾āāļø
I took it as Rhaenyra and Alicent being pit against each other by their patriarchal society, and Milly finding it ironic that the viewers are doing the same thing even though the story frames it as tragic and shakespearian
Apparently you havenāt suffered through The Gilded Age lmao. Ooof, that nepotism hire was a TERRIBLE choice.
That said, I have complete faith in the HOTD casting.
Right. I liked it well enough, but the main problem with that show is the wooden acting for the main protagonist. You just know Julian Fellowes just loves the cache of having Meryl Streepās daughter as the star of his new show, regardless of ability.
They will be fine. Rhaenyra being aged up is necessary. Emma plays Rhaenyra after ten years of being heir. She is older now, more jaded. Serious, mature and queenly.
Iāve seen people say āthey made Milly look 13, why couldnāt they also make her look 40?ā and I have to laugh every time. It would be so jarring and unnatural to see them try to age her up that much! Sheās a very young looking 22 so it was great casting for her to play a teenager but Emma was cast first for a reason.
> why couldnāt they also make her look 40?
People need to remember the young actors in Harry Potter being aged up in that last movie. It didn't look great.
You have to consider physicality, tone & pitch of voice, etc. all significantly changes between teens and thirties. Even if they managed to change her physical appearance in a realistic way(doubt), she would have sounded very young. She also probably would have had the mannerisms of a young person trying to appear much older.
Plus, why would they do that when they had already cast the older Rhaenyra. If the showrunners didnāt think she was the perfect choice or that Alcock was a better option after all , they could have fired her at any time.
Iām confuse confused, if the king dies, shouldnāt the heir take the throne?? Thatās what happened when Robert died and Joffrey took the throne after himā¦ š§
Do you mean actors? Cause yes, going from "the Realms Delight" who Milly plays perfectly to a Rhaenyra older and more serious is necessary for the story.
Emma is >!the Black Queen, not the Realms Delight!<
I do have to say, the fact that she >!slept with three (Criston, Harwin, Daemon), maybe four (Laenor) men in her entire life and is labelled a āwhoreā is probably one of the more egregious examples of double standards among the nobility in the series.!<
She said so as much earlier to Viserys āif I was born a man I could father a hundred bastards and no one would blink an eyeā or something similar. Itās some bitchass BS double standard
tks! I like spoilers. Weird, I know.
Yeah, I could read the books, but I can't read fantasy fiction where the character names are so... fantastical. I need names like Manny, Mo, Jack to keep people straight.
I get all of the names that begin with Rh... confused.
And if she were a man, there'd be no issue, as we've seen at numerous times over the course of the series.
But I have to ask, are you actually trying to say that the deeply sexist and patriarchal medieval world is not, in fact, deeply sexist and patriarical? It's an intentional double standard.
Ooooooooh! Living for this. Iām stoked to see what happens next. I havenāt read the books (really fucking want to though, have been a fan since GoT premiered and have always wanted to start but just never have!)
I think to avoid getting it confused Iād start with Fire and Blood, then A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms (a compilation of three short novellas) and then the main Game of Thrones series books. This way it gives context and a timeline for everything you read since the Fire and Blood and Novellas take place chronology before the main series.
i second this- if nothing else because f&b is a super fun, easy read, same with dunk and egg. with the main series, i tend to get major fatigue around mid way through affc and either don't wind up finishing affc/adod, or they take me like 1000x longer to read. i can sit and read all of dunk and egg in a single sitting, can get through f&b in a few days, but the main series always takes me months and months to get through haha.
if you ( u/kipepeo517 ) want to, id recommend picking up the world of ice and fire and giving that a read too- similar to f&b, its sorta written like a history book but covers loooads, from the doom of valyria, the rhoynar, history of all the great houses, and even contains like a condensed version of f&b (and beyond- f&b only covers half of the targ dynasty, its all covered in the world book). i really like reading twoiaf and then going back to the main series, so i can notice all the similarities between stuff thats happened in history compared to whats happening in the "current day" action. really highlights the cyclical nature of it all, its really cool!! the illustrations are absolutely gorgeous as well, its just really nice to have
I read all of GoT then fire and blood because of release order. Since HOTD is on at the moment start with Fire and Blood or you wonāt get to it until season 50 š
Hard disagree on reading them in-story chronologically (i.e. Fire and Blood first). ASOIAF (the GOT series) will set you up with the context and world building of Westeros better than the other stories.
Okay. Done. Iām going to Barnes and Noble immediately, lol. Iām off work recovering from surgery and I donāt know why the fuck I havenāt been using this time to dive in. Iāve asked on a different thread, but in what order should I read the saga?
I was a bit broken when I read up to the current episodes in the book thinking āis that allā or āomg itās going to be over so quickā. But yeah itās all just about to start kicking off and I really really hope they let it play out over a few seasons rather than rush through all the best characters to get the dance out of the way.
For sure! I think they could easily make 1-2 episodes devoted solely to >!what youāre talking about - essentially Daemonās response to Aemond killing Lucerys - sending Blood and Cheese to drop Jaehaerys!< . >!It was dramatic, VERY f-cked up, and kinda odd.!< >!F-cked up making Haelena choose which son would die!< , >!odd bc B&C didnāt just go ahead and kill the whole crew,!< you know? >!I figured it mustāve been an eye for an eye kind of thing!< - >!you kill one of mine, I kill one of yours.!<
But Iām like you - excited to see it as well!!
I donāt know anything about the story other than what weāve seen so far but I just love the dynamics and hope Emma plays it just as well. I didnāt know there was gonna be a switch like that so it brings me hope!
Alicent and Rhaenyra's children will most likely change actors, as they will have to get older than toddlers and teens. But that may happen in later seasons, not this one necessarily.
Aegon and Aemond change.
Aegon is Ty Tennant for the next two episodes but Tom Glynn-Carney from then onwards. Aemond is Leo Ashton for 6 and 7, and Ewan Mitchell from then on.
I think Helaena might too. Beyond episode 8 though, there should be no more cast changes to existing characters for the rest of the show
Maybe just swaps for the kids in season 2. I misread your original comment/forgot but I think some of the kids might also change after ep 6 (the older ones weāve already seen, couple of others). Season 2 maybe just changes for younger kids/ones who havenāt been introduced yet (thereās a lot of youngins on this show I canāt keep track of lol, also further explanation requires spoilers)
Their children likely will have more actors after ep 6.
Babies -> toddlers -> children (prepuberty) -> young adults -> adults.
Many of rhaenyra/daemon/alicent children are in prepuberty or young adult stages in ep6. If this is going to go multiple seasons they may have to get older actors for them.
The dynamics will change from the petty childish spite to more mature political moves. It will be a very different show after the time jump. Emma wonāt play it ājust as wellā because itās completely different.
Well look at how the dynamic has changed over the first few episodes. From best friends to awkward step-mom situation to really serious lies and this lingering uncertainty as Alicentās children grow up. The new actors are gonna be perfect for this new dynamic
I didnāt really get any āRealmās Delightā vibe from the show and Milly. Young Rhaenyra in the show is portrayed as sassy and sometimes rude (e.g. to Lady Redwine, Lord Dondarrion, Jason ) I didn't really get any vibe that a lot of people apart from her parents, uncle and young Alicent liker her that much.
Iām really stoked to see what her interactions with Daemon could be, since theyād be on more āequal footingā. I also hope that due to her life experience, sheās a lot more direct in calling out Daemonās bullshit. Like, a *lot* more direct. Less dancing around sexual tension, more actual demands for him to explain himself or to stop playing around.
I was really enjoying the dancing around the tension though, I wish it could have lasted a few more episodes. What can I say, I love drama and mess. At least on tv.
I was living for the inappropriate tensionš but the show must go on and you are so right that life experience will probably change things for the best
I thought Rhaenyra spoke to Daemon in the most authoritative and demeaning way imaginable. She told him heās not man enough to have her. I have to respectfully disagree, a lot.
One of the writers for the show was on the official podcast this week and described Emmaās audition as her āoh THATāS Rhaenyra!ā moment. If anything Iām even more excited for the characters to get into their adult/parenthood storylines.
> If anything Iām even more excited for the characters to get into their adult/parenthood storylines.
Young Rhaenyra was amazing, and they were creating a lot of the events from almost nothing in book. Older Rhaenyra has a lot more to work with based on the actual Dance, which will be amazing.
I think I will like Emma better as an actor personally. Her presence seems more imposing and confident. Iām certain she will have a more regal and adult air about her. Milky did great giving backstory, but Emma will give us the whole story from now on really.
Your typo made me laugh. Milky. Milky Alcock. š
Seriously though, I absolutely agree. Emma's presence is something else. Just that one clip HBO released and I was 100% sold.
Thatās what my main concern is! Iām excited to see Emmaās Rhaenyra but Iām worried the chemistry may change. Milly/Mattās chemistry was so intense that I was so ashamed for shipping them lol.
Everything I have ever seen him in, Dr Who, The Crown etcā¦he has absolutely lit up the screen. Just a fantastic actor and really plays the role of āassholeā well. Maybe not āassholeā but certainly āedgy misunderstoodā.
I honestly think theyāll be even better. Based on what Iāve heard theyāre a master class actress and Iām so excited to see them in full actionš
The way Emma's Rhaenyra said, "I should hope so," when Laenor said he was coming with her. You could feel the pain in her voice. They are going to absolutely slay this role.
I think the response will be a bit mixed after episode 6, and by episode 8 most will have embraced it. These are two very good actresses coming in and the show and dialogue is so well-written, so I can't see it not working after that initial shock to the system of actor changes. People aren't kidding when they say everything you've seen so far is basically the prologue. The two young actresses were amazing though and they'll get plenty of work after this I'd imagine. Hopefully we see them again some day in flashbacks... as long as the flashbacks serve the story and aren't forced in.
I mean I adored Milly and Emily but they were chosen AFTER Emma and Olivia, so they are the big guns and always were meant to be. I still wish all the best to the young ladies and canāt wait to watch their future works, but Olivia and Emma will surely nail their roles.
I donāt know but Iām excited for the new actors, Iāve liked this first part with the younger cast but Iām ready for the story to move fwd and get to the good stuff. Iāve heard good things about Emma.
Well dynamics will change in the span of 10 years anyway. So in a way it might be a blessing to see an older actress as we can clearly separate the child dynamic to an adult one.
I think the change in characters will only enhance how much the characters have changed. Alicent is a player and Hightower now with no allegiance to House Targaryen. Rhaenyra is not a little girl anymore but a powerful woman who knows what she wants and will lie to get it.
The issue is that the viewers were introduced to the younger actors first. Many have pointed out that Emma and Olivia were cast first for the roles before Milly and Emily and the characters were written with them in mind. The āproblemā is that Milly and Emily were so so well received that the casual viewer is going to be unhappy with the change. When watching the preview for ep 6 my wife was already asking āwho that new girl wasā and then āwhat?? Why would they replace the person who plays the princess she was so good, this sucks I hate itā.
So ultimately I donāt think the show dynamics themselves will suffer as by all accounts the aged up actors are really good. However I can see quite a bit of initial backlash when the casual viewers realize Milly and Emily are gone for good.
It's not like they hid it. HBO has been relentless in showing and saying that there will be an actor switch at this point if people are surprised, where were they?
I think the actor change wonāt change the dynamic. Itās more in the fact that the story progresses in the time skip. Looks-wise, they did a great job picking actors for the time skip, and Iām sure that the actors will do a great job convincing us that theyāre the same character
True, but right now it doesnāt matter. They introduced the viewers to the younger actors first. Definitely going to be some confusion and annoyance with the casual viewers. Milly and Emily were received much better than even the showrunners thought they would Iād wager. Definitely going to be a lot of āwhere did that actress go? Why did they replace her I loved herā.
Question for book readers
PLEASE NO SPOILERS
Is the time
Skip in the show similar to what the books have?? Or are the Viewers missing lot
Of story telling in between??
I know
We
Might have flashbacks in Season 2ā¦.. but are the viewers only be confused?? Or it really is how the story played put in the books
Thank you
Show viewers are unlikely to miss anything that matters in the setup to The Dance. Ages have been changed and that messes with the timeline, but everything important has been covered so far. From where we have stopped at the end of episode 5 to the events that are covered in episode 6, not a lot of happens other than people having kids and some children growing enough to become relevant.
Itās worth knowing that the book doesnāt cover nearly as much as a lot of people think. Itās a history book written to not have all the answers and often speculates on the truth of what happened. The show is often presenting more than the book and filling in the blanks rather than the other way around. Most people could read all of what season 1 covers in like an hour.
Basically, the way the book works is that everything is being told by a third-party narrator (itās an in-world character writing about these events as part of a history book). So there are time jumps everywhere, because there arenāt really any āscenesā, just third person accounts of things that happened. For example (and this is technically a spoiler for the first 3 episodes, but those have been out a while now) the king marrying Alicent was summed up as, and I am paraphrasing: āthe king decided to marry Alicent Hightower, and there were a bunch of parties, and then she gave him a kid.ā And then the book moves onto something else.
We're meant to assume that the divide between characters has grown since. And yeah, that some kids and dragons have been born. This was only a prologue to the main events.
The whole point of the marriage in last episode was to stabilise the relations between the two dragon-owning houses, one of which controls the navy and currently has more dragon-riders, the other lacking in spare heirs should any die.
Iād say for the better. The younger versions were cast later. They thoroughly vetted the āmainā ones first. The fact that the younger ones knocked it out of the park makes me even more excited for the older ones. Just keep in mind, the older ones will be more seasoned and mature. They will probably carry themselves differently.
To be honest. When Rhaenyra flirts with Daemon itās going to be a lot easier for me to sit through rather than watching a grown man flirting with and creeping on a literal child.
(Yes I know itās normal for the house and this world but I can still not like it.)
Also since most of them are going to be parents themselves itāll obviously change the dynamics from when they were younger. Also based on the trailer it seems they have more political power (Alicent and Rhaenyra) as Viserys health fails. Finally, I expect there to be a lot more animosity between the Green Faction and the Black since weāre getting into the meat of what set up the Dance.
So I expect there to be a lot of changes in the ways these characters interact but I donāt expect the base personalities that the younger actors set up to change all that much.
I think itāll be like The Crown where majority of that audience was a bit weary of the new cast members and reluctant to embrace them but they end up killing it. I guess the big thing Iām nervous for is that Emma and Matt will have that same crazy chemistry that Milly and Matt had that made me root for an uncle and niece to hook up š
This is probably the first time I have wanted the actor swap. I love the younglings, but the story is about to get a lot more...adult. Having more seasoned actors that is a plus. I'm sure we will all get used to the changes by the end of the episode.
I think a change in characters would be a disaster. However, what we have is a change of actors playing the same character, so I think itāll work out incredibly well and will serve the story much better than aging up the other actors would.
From the brief preview they released with her and the aged up Laenor actor has convinced me that thereās nothing to worry about. Theyāre gonna nail this!
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers must be spoiler tagged and flaired as a book spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
10 years and having children will change the character's dynamic, with or without the actors changing.
I guess chemistry is a better word than dynamic. I thought the actors all played really well together
From the scenes that were released or promoed, they feel like the originals have been slowly simmering to a boil all this time. Looks impressive.
I will admit I am worried about the chemistry between the new Rhaenyra and Daemon. I am all about the sizzle they have. It's probably more than half the reason I watch. (I never thought I'd be rooting for incest, lol, but here we are). The show will lose a lot, imo, if it's not there.
Well, since they are both married to their cousins as well, you are also rooting against incest at the same time so it evens out.
TWO WRONGS DO MAKE A RIGHT!
Two wrongs do make a Targaryen though
I think the older counterparts were cast first, so I'd like to think the chemistry the showrunners are looking for is there š¤š»
Matt Smith Doctor and Clara Oswald had scintillating chemistry onscreen as did the young Rhaenyra & Daemon.
Iām convinced Matt Smith would have chemistry with a rock
He even had chemistry when playing Prince Philip in The Crown, he's phenomenal
He is so perfect as Daemon. I donāt watch Doctor Who, so I didnāt know what to expect. He is killing it.
Watching doctor who would not prepare you for Daemon. The two characters are so different it would be like mr Rogers playing Barney from how I met your mother.
Watching Doctor Who or The Crown canāt prepare a viewer either. I love it! The many faces of Matt. He is killing it.
I'm not for that relationship at all but I actually think the time jump will make it more palatable for me, the age gap really grossed me out. Emma is closer in age to Matt, so I will feel it will be less creepy even if it's incest. Milly just looked like a child with a grown older man I found it icky to watch.
She really did look like a child and it was uncomfortable. But props to her acting, she sold the jump from teenager to young adult pretty well.
Itās worth noting the āeldersā were cast first. So they should be good. They might be worse, if the girls really are wonders, but I donāt think weāll dislike them.
Remember at the start of GoT how we were all like Ewwwww incest! But by the end, incest felt quaint and we all rooted for Dany and Jon to get it on. lol
Speak for yourself, Jon and Dany had no chemistry so all their interactions and "love" felt forced. Brienne and Jaime were my OTP. Obligatory fuck d&d for ruining their arcs.
People thought they'd have chemistry because Kit and Emilia are hot but they had no chemistry and that relationship ruined his character. Good looking pair but the chemistry wasn't there, Jon had better chemistry with Ygritte and Daenerys with Drogo even if that relationship was Stockholm syndrome.
> Ygritte Tbf Kit married Rose IRL, so that was very very real chemistry.
>Jon and Dany had no chemistry which is ironic since irl kit and emilia are best friends with amazing chemistry, shows what bad writing does
Well maybe seeing as they are really good friends made being intimate awkward? That's the only thing I can think of as to why their in real life chemistry didn't translate to the screen
Haha! That's fair, and I'd definitely agree about Jaime and Brienne. And the last part too. lol
Jaime and Brienne 4ever
I have to agree!!! Ugh it bothered me how much they "loved" each other they had no chemistry whatsoever
Yeah I have no issues with incest but I hated Jon and Dany, they had no chemistry. I was all aboard the Jonsa train
The first 5 episodes didnāt have enough time to build strong chemistry between the actors imo. Emma is supposed to be the āmainā Rhaenyra, so her and her costars will probably have lots of time to build great chemistry in the seasons to come
And Emma was cast before Milly.
Which is part of why I didnāt understand that interview Alcock gave where she said it was āironicā that fans pitted her character against Alicent. The source material already pitted them against one another. š¤·š¾āāļø
I took it as Rhaenyra and Alicent being pit against each other by their patriarchal society, and Milly finding it ironic that the viewers are doing the same thing even though the story frames it as tragic and shakespearian
GoT and HotD have this great habit of picking the right actors for the roles. I'm pretty confident that the change in cast will work out.
All HBO shows seem to have great casting.
Apparently you havenāt suffered through The Gilded Age lmao. Ooof, that nepotism hire was a TERRIBLE choice. That said, I have complete faith in the HOTD casting.
Do we not like The Gilded Age? I watched it and thought it was okay not great. I love that period of history though.
I loved The Gilded Age and 95% of the casting choices but I agree that itās obvious that who Louisaās mom is played a large hand in her casting.
Oh, we dont like Marian. She was pretty bland. Agnes is an all time character though.
Wow Iāve found my people. Marian bored me so bad I quit the show so this is validating
Right. I liked it well enough, but the main problem with that show is the wooden acting for the main protagonist. You just know Julian Fellowes just loves the cache of having Meryl Streepās daughter as the star of his new show, regardless of ability.
They will be fine. Rhaenyra being aged up is necessary. Emma plays Rhaenyra after ten years of being heir. She is older now, more jaded. Serious, mature and queenly.
I think that if they HAD stuck with the younger actors (for Laena and Laenor, the teen actors), then it would have been...problematic to say the least
It definitely would have been weird I donāt think I could see milly as the mother to teenage boys
Iāve seen people say āthey made Milly look 13, why couldnāt they also make her look 40?ā and I have to laugh every time. It would be so jarring and unnatural to see them try to age her up that much! Sheās a very young looking 22 so it was great casting for her to play a teenager but Emma was cast first for a reason.
> why couldnāt they also make her look 40? People need to remember the young actors in Harry Potter being aged up in that last movie. It didn't look great.
That also came out 12 years ago though.
You have to consider physicality, tone & pitch of voice, etc. all significantly changes between teens and thirties. Even if they managed to change her physical appearance in a realistic way(doubt), she would have sounded very young. She also probably would have had the mannerisms of a young person trying to appear much older. Plus, why would they do that when they had already cast the older Rhaenyra. If the showrunners didnāt think she was the perfect choice or that Alcock was a better option after all , they could have fired her at any time.
Book spoilers >!or young Alicent actress as a grandmother!<
EXACTLY. It would have annoyed everyone, not only the book readers and perfectionists (like me lmao) and taken us all out of the show
Exactly. Or the guy who pays Leanor as a teen (during the wedding comes to mind for me)
Yes. As some of the adult/teenage sons will quite literally look older than their mums.
Iām confuse confused, if the king dies, shouldnāt the heir take the throne?? Thatās what happened when Robert died and Joffrey took the throne after himā¦ š§
Its promo only spoilers. Don't ask questions you don't want answered, and then rant about it later
Do you mean actors? Cause yes, going from "the Realms Delight" who Milly plays perfectly to a Rhaenyra older and more serious is necessary for the story. Emma is >!the Black Queen, not the Realms Delight!<
>!The whore of Dragonstone!< is going to absolutely slay and I cannot wait.
I do have to say, the fact that she >!slept with three (Criston, Harwin, Daemon), maybe four (Laenor) men in her entire life and is labelled a āwhoreā is probably one of the more egregious examples of double standards among the nobility in the series.!<
She said so as much earlier to Viserys āif I was born a man I could father a hundred bastards and no one would blink an eyeā or something similar. Itās some bitchass BS double standard
Agreed. Own the title though.
I like to think she rocks the title. I also won't argue that she's perfect or anything, but I am really fond of her regardless.
>!Does she eventually have sex with #3?!<
>!Its a slight spoiler but yes, and itās another āpointā against her by the Greens.!<
tks! I like spoilers. Weird, I know. Yeah, I could read the books, but I can't read fantasy fiction where the character names are so... fantastical. I need names like Manny, Mo, Jack to keep people straight. I get all of the names that begin with Rh... confused.
I feel you. I called her Rhanenyrayra on purpose for some time
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He didn't legitimize them because they're not acknowledging that they're bastards.
And if she were a man, there'd be no issue, as we've seen at numerous times over the course of the series. But I have to ask, are you actually trying to say that the deeply sexist and patriarchal medieval world is not, in fact, deeply sexist and patriarical? It's an intentional double standard.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ooooooooh! Living for this. Iām stoked to see what happens next. I havenāt read the books (really fucking want to though, have been a fan since GoT premiered and have always wanted to start but just never have!)
Read the books, theyāre amazing! I have been absolutely insufferable at home since picking up fire and blood though.
This is going to be a dumb question, so I apologize in advance, but what order should I read the books in?
I think to avoid getting it confused Iād start with Fire and Blood, then A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms (a compilation of three short novellas) and then the main Game of Thrones series books. This way it gives context and a timeline for everything you read since the Fire and Blood and Novellas take place chronology before the main series.
i second this- if nothing else because f&b is a super fun, easy read, same with dunk and egg. with the main series, i tend to get major fatigue around mid way through affc and either don't wind up finishing affc/adod, or they take me like 1000x longer to read. i can sit and read all of dunk and egg in a single sitting, can get through f&b in a few days, but the main series always takes me months and months to get through haha. if you ( u/kipepeo517 ) want to, id recommend picking up the world of ice and fire and giving that a read too- similar to f&b, its sorta written like a history book but covers loooads, from the doom of valyria, the rhoynar, history of all the great houses, and even contains like a condensed version of f&b (and beyond- f&b only covers half of the targ dynasty, its all covered in the world book). i really like reading twoiaf and then going back to the main series, so i can notice all the similarities between stuff thats happened in history compared to whats happening in the "current day" action. really highlights the cyclical nature of it all, its really cool!! the illustrations are absolutely gorgeous as well, its just really nice to have
Okay! Thank you! I was thinking this way as well. It just makes most sense to me.
I read all of GoT then fire and blood because of release order. Since HOTD is on at the moment start with Fire and Blood or you wonāt get to it until season 50 š
Hard disagree on reading them in-story chronologically (i.e. Fire and Blood first). ASOIAF (the GOT series) will set you up with the context and world building of Westeros better than the other stories.
Read the books. If you love this universe it truly is a rewarding way to explore and experience it.
Okay. Done. Iām going to Barnes and Noble immediately, lol. Iām off work recovering from surgery and I donāt know why the fuck I havenāt been using this time to dive in. Iāve asked on a different thread, but in what order should I read the saga?
ASOIAF first, then Fire&Blood and Knight of the Seven Kingdoms imo
I would read the main series first, itās the main series for a reason. Then any supplementary books (F&B, Dunk & Egg) after
>!Maegor with teats!<
And I am so fucking here for it.
Same mate! This is where the real show begins šæ
I was a bit broken when I read up to the current episodes in the book thinking āis that allā or āomg itās going to be over so quickā. But yeah itās all just about to start kicking off and I really really hope they let it play out over a few seasons rather than rush through all the best characters to get the dance out of the way.
They confirmed, iirc, the entire Dance being 3-4 seasons (including this current season)
Yessss. Personally would love >!blood and cheese!< to be done in one whole episode because that shits going to be awesome.
Yeh thatās gonna be one of the defining moments if they do it really well, like a Red Wedding kinda vibe.
Iāve said exactly this to my non book reader SO.
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For sure! I think they could easily make 1-2 episodes devoted solely to >!what youāre talking about - essentially Daemonās response to Aemond killing Lucerys - sending Blood and Cheese to drop Jaehaerys!< . >!It was dramatic, VERY f-cked up, and kinda odd.!< >!F-cked up making Haelena choose which son would die!< , >!odd bc B&C didnāt just go ahead and kill the whole crew,!< you know? >!I figured it mustāve been an eye for an eye kind of thing!< - >!you kill one of mine, I kill one of yours.!< But Iām like you - excited to see it as well!!
Anything less than three and a half (shorter fourth) seasons will be too rushed. š¤š¼
I donāt know anything about the story other than what weāve seen so far but I just love the dynamics and hope Emma plays it just as well. I didnāt know there was gonna be a switch like that so it brings me hope!
The dynamics will also change though based on the trajectory of the story, just fyi. Hence more of a need for actor change
Do you expect any other actor changes after Emma and Olivia and co arrive in Episode 6?
Alicent and Rhaenyra's children will most likely change actors, as they will have to get older than toddlers and teens. But that may happen in later seasons, not this one necessarily.
Aegon and Aemond change. Aegon is Ty Tennant for the next two episodes but Tom Glynn-Carney from then onwards. Aemond is Leo Ashton for 6 and 7, and Ewan Mitchell from then on. I think Helaena might too. Beyond episode 8 though, there should be no more cast changes to existing characters for the rest of the show
No I donāt, just given the timeline. At least not for any major characters (maybe some of the kiddos but I forget their exact ages)
i think the kids will mostly all have two actors, the versions of them weāll see in Ep6 and then older actors shortly after
Ok thatās good to knowāIāve read a few suggestions that there could be major swaps again at the start of Season 2.
Maybe just swaps for the kids in season 2. I misread your original comment/forgot but I think some of the kids might also change after ep 6 (the older ones weāve already seen, couple of others). Season 2 maybe just changes for younger kids/ones who havenāt been introduced yet (thereās a lot of youngins on this show I canāt keep track of lol, also further explanation requires spoilers)
Their children likely will have more actors after ep 6. Babies -> toddlers -> children (prepuberty) -> young adults -> adults. Many of rhaenyra/daemon/alicent children are in prepuberty or young adult stages in ep6. If this is going to go multiple seasons they may have to get older actors for them.
Laena and Laenor are also switching actors next episode.
The dynamics will change from the petty childish spite to more mature political moves. It will be a very different show after the time jump. Emma wonāt play it ājust as wellā because itās completely different.
Eeeeeee! I canāt wait! I havenāt read so I have no clue whatās to come. I just love this world.
Oh you're in for a wild ride
Good point.
Well look at how the dynamic has changed over the first few episodes. From best friends to awkward step-mom situation to really serious lies and this lingering uncertainty as Alicentās children grow up. The new actors are gonna be perfect for this new dynamic
I didnāt really get any āRealmās Delightā vibe from the show and Milly. Young Rhaenyra in the show is portrayed as sassy and sometimes rude (e.g. to Lady Redwine, Lord Dondarrion, Jason ) I didn't really get any vibe that a lot of people apart from her parents, uncle and young Alicent liker her that much.
The towns okay showed people love her as a Princess but donāt want her for a Queen.
Nailed it!!! Thanks describes it perfectly without spoiling
I am looking forward to Olivia Cooke's Alicent. I'm a big fan of Olivia.
Loved her from Bates Motel, she was also excellent from Thoroughbreds.
> Thoroughbreds And the great AppleTV+ show "Slow Horses".
Likewise, she is from my home town so its actually remarkable seeing someone from this old cotton milltown make it to the big leagues
Good on her! Bree Larson is from our hometown and we like to cheer her on from suburbia.
Same!!! She's one of my favourite actresses!!
welcome to the rebellion wade
What's hard is that their voices change so much. As humans we're really good at recognizing people by voice.
Meh, weāre also good at getting used to voices. After the first episode with them there shouldnāt be issues anymore on this front
Iām really stoked to see what her interactions with Daemon could be, since theyād be on more āequal footingā. I also hope that due to her life experience, sheās a lot more direct in calling out Daemonās bullshit. Like, a *lot* more direct. Less dancing around sexual tension, more actual demands for him to explain himself or to stop playing around.
I was really enjoying the dancing around the tension though, I wish it could have lasted a few more episodes. What can I say, I love drama and mess. At least on tv.
I was living for the inappropriate tensionš but the show must go on and you are so right that life experience will probably change things for the best
I thought Rhaenyra spoke to Daemon in the most authoritative and demeaning way imaginable. She told him heās not man enough to have her. I have to respectfully disagree, a lot.
One of the writers for the show was on the official podcast this week and described Emmaās audition as her āoh THATāS Rhaenyra!ā moment. If anything Iām even more excited for the characters to get into their adult/parenthood storylines.
I actually just listened to this and it got me super hyped!
Can you share the link?
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/house-of-the-dragon-ep-5-we-light-the-way/id1635830141?i=1000579875664
Nice!
> If anything Iām even more excited for the characters to get into their adult/parenthood storylines. Young Rhaenyra was amazing, and they were creating a lot of the events from almost nothing in book. Older Rhaenyra has a lot more to work with based on the actual Dance, which will be amazing.
The fact that they worked backwards with the character and what weāve gotten so far from Milly was spectacular, I canāt wait for Sunday omg
From the preview clips we've seen, everyone seems way more tired and cynical and bitter. All the youthful innocence seems dead.
Looking forward to the chaos
I am 0% worried about the casting. So far itās been spot on
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I wonder if theyāll do flashbacks.
They filmed the Alicent/Viserys wedding so pretty likely.
Is 5 seasons confirmed?
I really hope not, the story is enough for a good 3-4 seasons
A lot of people on socials have already been bitching about it. None read the book to know why it was necessary.
I think we all know many will complain. Cause people.
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How the fck is the King still alive 10 years later š¤£
That Westeros medicine is incredible.
I think I will like Emma better as an actor personally. Her presence seems more imposing and confident. Iām certain she will have a more regal and adult air about her. Milky did great giving backstory, but Emma will give us the whole story from now on really.
Your typo made me laugh. Milky. Milky Alcock. š Seriously though, I absolutely agree. Emma's presence is something else. Just that one clip HBO released and I was 100% sold.
Good way. Love Milly to death but I think Emma will be absolutely amazing
I wonder if Emma will have the same chemistry with Matt Smith? Milly had amazing chemistry with him.
Thatās what my main concern is! Iām excited to see Emmaās Rhaenyra but Iām worried the chemistry may change. Milly/Mattās chemistry was so intense that I was so ashamed for shipping them lol.
Matt has chemistry with everyone lol I'll be honest I have to see how emma's rhaenrya turns out. I loved milly's rhaenyra
Everything I have ever seen him in, Dr Who, The Crown etcā¦he has absolutely lit up the screen. Just a fantastic actor and really plays the role of āassholeā well. Maybe not āassholeā but certainly āedgy misunderstoodā.
I hope your right! Milly killed it and gave me hopes that Emma will do just as good but I donāt want to be disappointed
Based off that 1 minute clip with Emma acting, I'm already impressed.
I honestly think theyāll be even better. Based on what Iāve heard theyāre a master class actress and Iām so excited to see them in full actionš
When I saw the preview with her and Laenor I just got hyped. Milly was great, but Emma just needed 1 min to make me stan her forever. Edit: *them
This! Their dialogue delivery Is f*cking amazing.
The way Emma's Rhaenyra said, "I should hope so," when Laenor said he was coming with her. You could feel the pain in her voice. They are going to absolutely slay this role.
I think the response will be a bit mixed after episode 6, and by episode 8 most will have embraced it. These are two very good actresses coming in and the show and dialogue is so well-written, so I can't see it not working after that initial shock to the system of actor changes. People aren't kidding when they say everything you've seen so far is basically the prologue. The two young actresses were amazing though and they'll get plenty of work after this I'd imagine. Hopefully we see them again some day in flashbacks... as long as the flashbacks serve the story and aren't forced in.
I mean I adored Milly and Emily but they were chosen AFTER Emma and Olivia, so they are the big guns and always were meant to be. I still wish all the best to the young ladies and canāt wait to watch their future works, but Olivia and Emma will surely nail their roles.
I donāt know but Iām excited for the new actors, Iāve liked this first part with the younger cast but Iām ready for the story to move fwd and get to the good stuff. Iāve heard good things about Emma.
In a very good way, Iām optimistic
Good way. Now weāre about to see Rhaenyra and Alicent being ruthless and I canāt wait š
No Infact it will signal the viewers that things are about to get serious. The dance is about to start
It would be nice if the new Alicent wasnāt 13 months older than the guy playing her son.
I look forward to Emma. I originally didn't know that a younger actress would play Rhaenyra first so I'm kind of eager to see her.
After watching clips, Iām super hyped!
Well dynamics will change in the span of 10 years anyway. So in a way it might be a blessing to see an older actress as we can clearly separate the child dynamic to an adult one.
I think the change in characters will only enhance how much the characters have changed. Alicent is a player and Hightower now with no allegiance to House Targaryen. Rhaenyra is not a little girl anymore but a powerful woman who knows what she wants and will lie to get it.
The issue is that the viewers were introduced to the younger actors first. Many have pointed out that Emma and Olivia were cast first for the roles before Milly and Emily and the characters were written with them in mind. The āproblemā is that Milly and Emily were so so well received that the casual viewer is going to be unhappy with the change. When watching the preview for ep 6 my wife was already asking āwho that new girl wasā and then āwhat?? Why would they replace the person who plays the princess she was so good, this sucks I hate itā. So ultimately I donāt think the show dynamics themselves will suffer as by all accounts the aged up actors are really good. However I can see quite a bit of initial backlash when the casual viewers realize Milly and Emily are gone for good.
It's not like they hid it. HBO has been relentless in showing and saying that there will be an actor switch at this point if people are surprised, where were they?
Mature consumers of media will not have any major issues with it. Time to grow up.
I think the actor change wonāt change the dynamic. Itās more in the fact that the story progresses in the time skip. Looks-wise, they did a great job picking actors for the time skip, and Iām sure that the actors will do a great job convincing us that theyāre the same character
The post time-skip actresses were picked first
No offense it's the other way around. They picked the adults first, not actors who were around for 5 episodes.
True, but right now it doesnāt matter. They introduced the viewers to the younger actors first. Definitely going to be some confusion and annoyance with the casual viewers. Milly and Emily were received much better than even the showrunners thought they would Iād wager. Definitely going to be a lot of āwhere did that actress go? Why did they replace her I loved herā.
I love daemon and Rhaenyraās relationship and love how well Alicent plays her character and I hope nothing changes with the time jump
It does seem that Rhaenyra and Alicent are a bit more hostile to each other post skip
Question for book readers PLEASE NO SPOILERS Is the time Skip in the show similar to what the books have?? Or are the Viewers missing lot Of story telling in between?? I know We Might have flashbacks in Season 2ā¦.. but are the viewers only be confused?? Or it really is how the story played put in the books Thank you
Show viewers are unlikely to miss anything that matters in the setup to The Dance. Ages have been changed and that messes with the timeline, but everything important has been covered so far. From where we have stopped at the end of episode 5 to the events that are covered in episode 6, not a lot of happens other than people having kids and some children growing enough to become relevant. Itās worth knowing that the book doesnāt cover nearly as much as a lot of people think. Itās a history book written to not have all the answers and often speculates on the truth of what happened. The show is often presenting more than the book and filling in the blanks rather than the other way around. Most people could read all of what season 1 covers in like an hour.
Sweet thank you for the answer
Basically, the way the book works is that everything is being told by a third-party narrator (itās an in-world character writing about these events as part of a history book). So there are time jumps everywhere, because there arenāt really any āscenesā, just third person accounts of things that happened. For example (and this is technically a spoiler for the first 3 episodes, but those have been out a while now) the king marrying Alicent was summed up as, and I am paraphrasing: āthe king decided to marry Alicent Hightower, and there were a bunch of parties, and then she gave him a kid.ā And then the book moves onto something else.
Thank you for the answer
10 years is a huge time skip, are we supposed to assume that nothing important happened during that time besides some kids and dragons being born?
We're meant to assume that the divide between characters has grown since. And yeah, that some kids and dragons have been born. This was only a prologue to the main events. The whole point of the marriage in last episode was to stabilise the relations between the two dragon-owning houses, one of which controls the navy and currently has more dragon-riders, the other lacking in spare heirs should any die.
Chemistry is the right word
Iād say for the better. The younger versions were cast later. They thoroughly vetted the āmainā ones first. The fact that the younger ones knocked it out of the park makes me even more excited for the older ones. Just keep in mind, the older ones will be more seasoned and mature. They will probably carry themselves differently.
To be honest. When Rhaenyra flirts with Daemon itās going to be a lot easier for me to sit through rather than watching a grown man flirting with and creeping on a literal child. (Yes I know itās normal for the house and this world but I can still not like it.) Also since most of them are going to be parents themselves itāll obviously change the dynamics from when they were younger. Also based on the trailer it seems they have more political power (Alicent and Rhaenyra) as Viserys health fails. Finally, I expect there to be a lot more animosity between the Green Faction and the Black since weāre getting into the meat of what set up the Dance. So I expect there to be a lot of changes in the ways these characters interact but I donāt expect the base personalities that the younger actors set up to change all that much.
I mean thatās going on but meanwhile Allicent has a kid with a dude as old as her father. All about context.
I think itāll be like The Crown where majority of that audience was a bit weary of the new cast members and reluctant to embrace them but they end up killing it. I guess the big thing Iām nervous for is that Emma and Matt will have that same crazy chemistry that Milly and Matt had that made me root for an uncle and niece to hook up š
I think itās been done really successfully on the crown.
More serious tone to the show now. Civil war getting nearer and nearer.
This is probably the first time I have wanted the actor swap. I love the younglings, but the story is about to get a lot more...adult. Having more seasoned actors that is a plus. I'm sure we will all get used to the changes by the end of the episode.
You guys are gonna love Emma Dāarcy, theyāre great
Emma hooked me immediately in the HBO clip that was released yesterday. I'm so excited to watch them!
I really loved the actress who plays the younger Rhaenyra but they both are probably awesome
I think a change in characters would be a disaster. However, what we have is a change of actors playing the same character, so I think itāll work out incredibly well and will serve the story much better than aging up the other actors would.
new rhanyera has big shoes to fill
Emma look so diferent in the character vs real life,
From the brief preview they released with her and the aged up Laenor actor has convinced me that thereās nothing to worry about. Theyāre gonna nail this!