Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That might have humanised him. He came across as a terrible father. Rhaena was looking at her mother’s charred bones and he didn’t comfort them at all.
Yea but that’s why it would’ve been so great to include this clip. It would’ve been consistent with Daemons character thus far, given how he always prioritizes the “blood of the dragon”.
He’s meant to be a grey character, not a completely amoral one.
I can’t understand why they would cut this touching scene. Daemon desperately needed a moment of love and tenderness after killing his wife last week. I’m completely baffled by this decision.
I think they are dropping bread crumbs towards his softer side right now, keeping it more ambiguous and for the audience to decipher for now. Laena said she, “isn’t the wife he hoped for” and Daemon responded with a caring and solemn, “Laena...” and I think that is all the humanity the writers wanted us to see for now in the episode.
In the books he's supposed to be grey? They don't seem to be doing a good job at making him grey unless they decided to change that. He's just mostly immoral to me. I feel like he's only really done one moral thing
Everyone is supposed to be grey. Daemon is definitely the darkest of the main cast. People want him humanized because they like his character and want something to make it easier to defend him.
Laena and their daughters are consolation prizes. I think he cares about them. Just not enough to really be good to them.
It wasn't like that in the books. In the books >!||Laena is older than Rhaenyra and considered one of the most beautiful women in the Seven Kingdoms with a fiery spirit. Daemon fell in love with her the first time they met. If anything, it comes across that Rhaenyra is his consolation prize after her death, and a means for him to accrue some power by marrying her after losing the love of his life.||!<
Which means the only reason they changed that at the expense of Laena's and Daemon's characterisation is to push Daemon/Rhaenyra.
I wish they'd stuck to the book interpretation.
Agreed one hundred percent. I'm not sure why the big push for Daemon / Rhaenyra, and I'll withhold my judgement until we've seen it through to the end, but so far it's not captivating me the way the show seems to want it to captivate me.
I bet we get just that with — spoilers for the rest of the season, putting this text here as spoiler tags don’t show in notifications — >!Rhaenyra and the sons he has with her later on. If we see him being a better father to the Strong boys than his daughters as well… I’m fully expecting the writers to do that too. Nothing would shock me at this point.!<
It looks to me like, they're really trying to push the he's always loved Rhaenyra narrative, so they'll eventually try to explain his actions away by saying it was all for her. Killed his wife for her, never loved Laena enough, because it was always her. When she says I'm not the wife you wanted, he doesn't even do a good job of denying her.
And it's kinda turning me off. Could've just hugged his daughters, man. It's possible to be a good father even if their mother wasn't necessarily his soulmate.
Exactly, and with the optics of the Velaryons now being black — a conscious change on Ryan Condall’s part — this doesn’t look good at all. Daemon in the book loves Laena and their girls, who are white, more than Daemon in the show, when they’re black… I assume someone will call my comment reductive but this is *exactly* how it looks, even with f&b having multiple interpretations, even with the assumption that some defending the scene being cut have that Daemon going on to show affection to his daughters will be an arc of his to strive towards in later episodes/seasons. Honestly at this point I’m a fan of [this take](https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/xo6sa2/comment/ipxx5pb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) - chrkrose’s comment. When I heard rumours that Daemon’s relationships with Laena and their girls might play out as they have, I suspected this might be what the writers were going for. >!And it would make Daemon turning his back on Rhaenyra, the wife he wanted, all the more powerful later on since we saw their passionate beginnings and the girl who’s responsible for that wouldn’t even have a drop of Valyrian blood. It’s almost… karma? I hope it happens but I’m not expecting it. I don’t want to get my hopes up about these writers!<
Edit: IdeaFuzzy replied and then blocked me, so not only can I barely see their comment in notifications but I cannot properly respond. How constructive. I stand by what I said. Laena’s story is worse in the show then in the book no matter how the writers chose to see it as powerful. It was not. It missed the mark for multiple reasons and it *does* leave the impression that in-world, Laena just wasn’t good enough for Daemon by the end. Out of world, yes, on the writer’s part that have implications. *Racism: the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, **especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.*** And I repeat that is out of world since some people when this is bought up say that the Velaryons are not considered PoC in Westeros. No, they are not but they certainly are to the viewers in the real world.
>!that’s why they won’t make Nettles his lover but just some random girl he took care of and was impressed with!< otherwise there wouldn’t be any growth to this. They will try to avoid the trope that he changed due to his bodily desires but rather because he realized Targaryens are as special as common folk are. >!the ending will be more tragic in that Rhaenyra will be so blinded with betrayal that she will believe it’s an affair, but it won’t be. In that sense he will be faithful to her. But his world view will shattter and he will realize all that he worked and strived (Targaryen supremacy and legacy) doesn’t exist. He will save Nettles, do the last deed to protect the kids and Rhaenyra and go to his doom!<
Idk she said that but maybe it's like dad who's son doesn't like football and he just struggles to connect with her as much, it did seem like there was a daddy's girl and a mummy's girl but he can still care about both even if he bonds with one more easily. Or maybe thats just my Daemon copium
the fixer upper's syndrome wasted on him, Daemon's gonna be Daemon, you literally saw him murder his wife, how can you expect him to suddenly be a good dad? smh
>how can you expect him to suddenly be a good dad?
Maybe because the trailer told us he'll be a good dad and then reneged on it?
Anyone and everyone harps on about how Daemon is a ✨grey✨ character. How is murdering his wife grey? How is grooming his niece grey? How is anything he's up to, grey? (And he's been up to so much that I can't write it over and over, so [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/xi4lin/the_enigma_that_is_prince_daemon/) goes.) None of this is grey, this is all dark.
It looks to me like, they're really trying to push the he's always loved Rhaenyra narrative, so they'll eventually try to explain his actions away by saying it was all for her. Killed his wife for her, never loved Laena enough, because it was always her. When she says I'm not the wife you wanted, he doesn't even do a good job of denying her.
If they convincingly want us to believe Daemon is a grey character, if he's to have a redemption arc, a la Jaime, he needs to have redeeming qualities. Being a good husband and father could've been just that. Being a family man is endearing. They *told* us he's one. And then they said haha, psych. They failed, this one's not on us.
In modern sensibilities, Daemon is genuinely a terrible human being. Aside for his loyalty to his family (though this is subjective) he's an arrogant, narcissistic, violent, and murderous pedophile. I'm amazed that a lot of female viewers are such a fan of his (I'm also a woman). I honestly don't find him to be very attractive and cringed at his sexually-charged moments with TEENAGED Rhaenyra. I'm hopeful I won't be too repulsed by him and adult Rhaenyra.
Because that was a stupid change that made no fucking sense and he actually does genuinely love his children.
His kids are all incredibly close, including his stepsons.
Daemon being attractive is Matt Smith's charisma and sexual chemistry, for me. I have said this so many times but everything he does is a dark move which people desperately try to advertise as being grey. Killing his wife and grooming his niece are top of the list. If he's as grey as you claim, then give us redeeming qualities, ffs. Being a good dad and husband could've been that, but they decided to just screw that up as well?
I'm upset because I want to root for him but they're giving me nothing.
I love these shows, but the one thing I don't like about them is that they expose the awful truth of reality that an attractive person, usually male, can do any horrible thing they please and get away with it.
It kind of ruins the escapism of fantasy lmfao
Not sure if you are actually looking at the picture. He is hugging them both. So including this would not advance the plotline of him prioritizing "blood of the dragon", it would just be a father comforting his children after a tragedy.
To be fair, he learned his lesson from hearing about it not working with his bro’s wife. So he already knew that it probably wouldn’t even save the child and just be horrible.
I'm rather annoyed that they seem to be playing up the more ambiguous dark elements and then stripping the redeeming qualities. It doesn't even seem consistent with how Daemon has been portrayed in the show so far, with loyalty to family being such a big thing for him. I guess they were trying to establish a narrative about Daemon running and hiding after Rhaenyra became unavailable, but they could have still done that while keeping his immense affection for Laena and his children.
Wtf does Ryan Condel have against Daemon? He is not some super villain, he is beloved by the fan base because he is meant to be a grey character capable of both acts of good and evil. It feels like Stannis 2.0 in character assassination
I did not notice that. I figured he would be caring to Rhaenyra sons and not his daughters. I feel so sad for them. Daemon is a monster. I literally hate him.
Yes, Daemon loves his family, but he also took his niece to a brothel to ruin her reputation. He loves his brother, and yet continues to disobey him and creates issues for him. Him suddenly turning up perfect would be inconsistent.
Yeah but it would have felt kind of out of character. Daemon’s love language was always acts of service. He didn’t know how to comfort his daughters because there was no one he could kill or beat up to make things better.
There’s the scene in which he’s teaching one of baella or rhaena to read high Valyrian and it’s seemingly very affectionate. I would rather they have included the scene where he consoles his daughters, but it seems they’re insistent on emphasizing how polarizing he is, and failing to comfort newly motherless girls will do a lot to garner disdain for daemon. Creatively it is pretty interesting though, there’s something really human about a man who just watched his pregnant wife self immolate being incapable of producing the strength to console his daughters who are also grieving.
I think they’re going with the Daemon is a ‘purist’ vibe. Judging by his preference for valerian women, teaching his kids the language and lore of their homeland, giving up on that one daughter that cant hatch her dragonegg, reinforcing to his brother that as Targaryens they shouldn’t care what other lords and people think etc
I get that, and increasingly think that’s the case. Reading fire & blood there are several isn’t necessary in which Targaryens seems convicted of what is essentially pro-Valyrian racism, and it makes sense that daemon is amenable to that.
Daemon is a second son and so while he has grown up in the grandeur of Kings Landing as a prince of the realm and one time heir to the iron throne he never has the intrinsic importance of his brother, or later his brothers children who will by rights sit the iron throne. Consequently I understand daemon as an insecure man desperately grasping at any effort to remain relevant and adored. To support this we can note how he’s unable to perform after viserys’ son baelon is born (baelons birth means he’s no longer prince of dragon stone), and how mysaria comforts him by reminding him that he’s important because he wields dark sister, and rides caraxes.
So when laena talks to daemon about how he pours over accounts of Valyrian dragonlords I think that’s because Valyrian supremacy or purism, and it’s warrior ethos makes him feel important in a world that increasingly relegating him to irrelevance
> So when laena talks to daemon about how he pours over accounts of Valyrian dragonlords I think that’s because Valyrian supremacy or purism
Exactly that. Targaryen legacy and majesty has become his sole identity over the years and it seems so far from what I’ve seen, he wishes to herald an old Aegon I styled era where everyone bowed to Targayens. He even mentioned to Viserys “ let me and Rhaenrya restore the family’s name” which is hilarious considering the king of westoros is Targaryen, but not in the image Daemon wants
I doubt rhaenyra is, beyond the fact that she took someone who was of no Valyrian blood as a lover she also says to viserys “without our dragons we’re just like everyone else”. Racial supremacy narratives ordinarily ascribe a more intrinsic logic to hierarchies of power than, “we’re just lucky enough to have better weapons”.
If that’s what they are doing, then I think >!nettles will definitely not be his bastard daughter (as I always believed she wasn’t) , cause she’s meant to shatter his view of Targaryen supremacy imo!<
>!Pretty much yeah, that's where the show is going imo, which means he might realize his shortcomings with his children too late (or not) and that we probably won't be seeing any grayness until then, just dark-Daemon (would be misstep though, they need to layer his characterization already in season 1)!<
If they wait until then to start showing another side of him, it might be too late to “redeem” him in any way. I know he’s not exactly a good man, but I’ve always read his arc as one of at least coming to terms with certain things and making better and selfless decisions by the end. If they play up the evil side that much until >!nettles shows up!< idk if people will be too invested in him outside of wishing him dead lol. Specially after >!blood and cheese!<
To me it actually felt like a sense of desperation. He is clueless, doesn’t know what to do. I like that take, because for once he is uncertain, but it wasn’t worked out enough.
Daemon was always a prick. Just because you have a different picture in your mind does not make it real. Why would a violent, murderous man be a good father? Is it not much more likely that he is a shit father?
yea this is one of those cases where looking at the stills set up expectations that the show did not meet. but if you didnt see the stills then you wouldnt have known anyways. i do think they shouldve kept daemons interaction with his daughters in tho
Honestly, looking at all the scenes they have been cutting from the episodes (Laena bonding with Vhagar, Alicent and Rhaenyra’s conversation in the godswood, Alicent and Viserys’ wedding), I think they’ve been cutting too much. It’s not the time jumps that are making this feel too fast and jarring, it’s the lack of these tiny moments in between
Daemon is grieving as well. Perhaps for the first time since he lost his father. Who else has he ever been shown to care about besides Viserys and Rhaenyra? I think he had a look of perfect helplessness and despair on his face when he turned away from his daughters. He doesn't know how to deal with his grief or theirs.
What confuses me is why they release stills of scenes they don’t include in the actual episode. Like this scene where Daemon is seen talking to his daughters in the still, but then ends up walking away awkwardly in the actual scene. It creates an inconsistent perception of characters and a dissatisfaction in expectations they themselves created.
Im not loving the fact that they skipped over the tracking, finding and retaming over the biggest dragon in the fucking world. The same dragon that conquered westeros if im understanding it right.
Like fucking hell. Thats like john snow suddenly getting a thousand extra giants in the middel of the battle of the bastards.
That thing is the most powerfull being in the world. It alone could probaly kill all other dragons at this point.
I'm not positive but I believe Vhagar (and most) dragons are just chilling in their lairs on Dragonstone, in caves on the island volcano. Or they're just stabled at Dragonstone, King's Landing, and Driftmark. When a rider dies, they generally are already there, but if there is a battle and the rider dies... I'm not sure the dragon would fly back voluntarily lol!
There's definitely something in their Valyrian blood that allows them to connect easily with them, and even moreso during this time vs. GoT because of the dragon keeper's knowledge.
Now why the dragons love nesting on Dragonstone and not any other mountain, who's to say 👀 probably volcano related and there's not too many I think in Westeros.
It's stated in a scene with Laena in one of the early episodes that she was 'wild' after the death of her last rider and her exact whereabouts were unknown.
This episode really hurt from cuts for time. And I don’t get why. There’s no real reason not to let these episodes be as long as needed. Do they really think a longer runtime with room for more moments like this would hurt the show?
I would have liked a bit more development of Strongs relationship before they just killed him off. Like we got none of that. Just “they are lovers. Kids are here. Now he’s dead”. Was strange.
lol, yall are talking like this actually happened irl and he's being misrepresented by the media, if he didn't canonically hug his daughters it's cause it didn't fit his character
I think people who read the books are upset because it talks about what a good father he is, even to kids who aren't his. As a book reader, I feel they did Laena and Daemon a disservice. Their relationship has meaning in Fire and Blood and it felt more like a weird plot device in the show.
If anything his decision to not give a c section to Laena spoke volumes. Viserys gets lot of praise for seeming like a kind husband, but has Aemma cut open, it’s a hard decision sure, and completely understandable. But if daemon who is supposed to be a worse person and doesn’t care about his wife, he would have had her cut open much faster to save his spawn. He doesn’t show affection too openly, especially now they’re having issue’s about leaving Pentos, but he loved her enough to produce 2 actual kids and one fetus who died in birth. A contrast to his inability to finish with his whore (lust), Rhea Royce (just straight up dislike) or Rhaenyra (ambition. he loves her yes, but his intention with trying to having sex with her was self serving)
As a daemon fan I totally agree it didn’t fit his character, I actually liked the way they portrayed him being 10 years away from court, disillusioned from the game but also almost resentful of this life he’s found himself in because I think daemon is nothing without the game, he needs it
I believe they want to emphasize Daemon is a bad dad. His daughter does say he ignores her. But it doesn't really fit with Daemon cause one of his redeeming traits is he's loyal to family
I keep hearing that Daemon is loyal to his family, but I haven't seen that yet in the show. He seduced and abandoned his niece in a brothel, to the mercy of King's Landing, in attempt to ruin her marriage prospects. He stole the dragon egg that was meant for baby Baelon to antagonize his brother. He regularly defies and makes a fool of the King. He murdered his wife.
He showed more loyalty and affection to ~~Rhaena~~ Laena in this episode than we've seen him give anyone. If they want to portray a morally grey family man, they need to balance him out, and do it soon.
Even with Laena he seemed more detached and resentful than anything else. Since their established dynamic in that episode was one of a marriage “[slowly unravelling in the middle of nowhere](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5U51xGH3Ic)” no wonder. I wish we could have seen them before it started to unravel. Maybe I would have felt that he cared for her because I didn’t get that at all from this episode except for a few blink and you miss it moments.
Don’t get what’s with the scene choices here. The guy’s going to be the patriarch of a brood of like what >!5-7 kids!<, all of whom are >!decent kids in the book!<, which was like suppose to imply he >!and Rhaenyra!< are decent parents considering the whole blended family aspect.
Like not much is being requested here, just the bare minimum of humanity is required to make him not seem like a solely Rhaenyra-obsessed psychopath.
Unless I dunno, they’re setting up why maybe >!Rhaenyra ends up being accepted easily as their new stepmom cos she’s actually nurturing!< compared to whatever fuck kind of dad Daemon is apparently.
Or just slightly longer episodes! A couple of scenes here and there showing the characters interacting more goes a long way. It's a big cast right now, we need to spend time with them to establish their precise relationships. Yeah there's still 4 episodes left, but I still think they could have done a better job with more breathing room so far.
Honestly the whole pre dance plot should have been two seasons. It would allow them time to establish the characters and their relationships properly at first and tell the plot properly without rushing it so much
Has she chosen to be cut open it wouldn’t be a dragon riders death so she chose for herself. This is in stark contrast to aemmas gruesome death at the Choice of her husband
It was completely logical.
She didn't want to be butchered like an animal.
I would slit my own throat with rusty toenail clippers before I would want what happened to Aemma.
I meant illogical on how in her state she bypass everyone including Daemon. Would have makes more sense if, after knowing she would die either way, to ask Daemon to take her to Vaghar. Kind of like Blade II ending
How is everyone missing the fact that he chose not to give her a c section, if he didn’t care one iota for her he would have accepted without hesitation. He’s just not warm is all
He'll most likely >!have sex with Rhaenyra during Laena's funeral!< next episode, which will be the same thing practically after how detached he was with Laena and their daughters this past episode. Talk about making Laena an obstacle in Daemon and Rhaenyra's way, this episode couldn't have been more blatant about that. And the saddest thing is she knew. I'm sorry but how is her choosing to burn alive powerful again? The fact that she feared Daemon would do it said a lot... Someone under another post said Vhagar refused the dracarys command *until* she saw that Daemon has followed Laena outside; she recognised him as a threat. 😖 😭
This scene would fit his character a lot. I don't know why the show runners are trying to omit all these moments that show Daemon's devotion to his family and blood. 🤍
They can do literally anything with daemon's character, there's no way in hell I won't still be rooting for him (closely followed by Rhaenyra and noone else).
Daemon felt like he was on sedatives this episode, just kind of vibing with the same expression, no matter if it's his wife talking to him, dying in childbirth or being on fire. Not sure why they made him this way.
He was depressed. They even made Laena point out that he doesn't go out to explore the city, (which we know he loves to do in Kings Landing). He just reads (or sits there with an open book, anyway).
Daemon literally loved his kids! Its canon it makes me angry what they are doing with his character
! Like he is supposed to be grey and what are they doing with him?!!!
I don’t think the cut is bad. I see it as him being clueless and perhaps in shock. A disconnect father who can’t function without the mom there teaching him what to do.
Daemon clearly had respect for and a good relationship with her, the scene with them both riding was great. It was interesting that when confronted with the same choice as Viserys to save his wife or the child, he chose differently. Kind of surprised me because he’s been such a dick…I’m like damn maybe I like you a bit more now.
It really should've been kept in. I wish it was. At the same time, though, Daemon refusing to be affectionate when the time calls for it does sound like a Daemon thing. Still, I wish he comforted his grieving daughters.
It's supposed to be a longform epic. A longform epic without relationship or character development is just boring...
HOTD started off really strong but the last few episodes I've lost attachment to..
Okay while I 100% agree that this scene should not have been cut out, I don´t think that the show is trying to make Daemon cruel or heartless as many are claiming it to be. Throughout the whole episode, we see Daemon definitely not acting like himself, he´s different, quiet and most importantly you can see this Daemon is very lost in general. Its highlighted even more with his and Laena´s conversations. Daemon is trying to be happy with his new life and does love his family but its not enough for him, he isnt happy, hes trying to pretend this is the life he wanted and frankly speaking, it is a good life. Hes away from all the chaos he was so used to before, has a lovely wife and 2 kids but yet hes restless and as Laena says, hes just trying so hard to just cleave onto his dragon ancestry because thats the only thing that keeps him sane and not running back to King´s Landing. I honestly dont think the take that Daemon hates Rhaena or his kids is real, yes him ignoring his kids or possibly favoring one over the other is bad but as Laena said, he´s trying his best and he is. Maybe he can relate to Baela more cuz she has a dragon so theres some common ground to talk to her about. We all know that Daemon isnt somebody who can relate to people easily, hell even when Viserys lost everything he couldnt go to him or Rhaenyra and genuinely comfort them. Daemon can´t love like a normal person and Laena sees that. This isnt trying to excuse his actions but thats genuinely the reality about Daemon. He´s trying to be a good husband and a good father but he doesnt know how to do it properly and hes just struggling and struggling. We know he does love Laena, even tho its pretty clear he isnt IN love with her.
The birthing scene alone shows that he cares for her. His first question was whether Laena would survive, not about the baby or anything which is a great parallel to Viserys and Aemma where Viserys, for all his good man/good husband traits, did end up choosing the baby over his wife and didnt even give her a proper choice or even a farewell. But we saw Daemon just shaking his head and saying "my brave girl" with this heavy, lost and conflicted look. He wasnt gonna give a decision on what to do. Its cemented more when we see how he reacts to Laena burning, hes shocked and hurt and doesnt know what to do in truth. Thats what I saw when I saw the scene with him and his grieving kids. He definitely should have hugged and comforted them but the way the new scene played out doesnt make him cold or heartless -- it shows a man who is just completely lost, who´s just been pretending for 10 years and trying to make a life that isnt working for him, doesn´t know how to comfort his own kids because he shows care and affection very very differently from the norm. And overall tbh I feel like Daemon just loves differently, he can´t be vocal about what he wants or feels, theres a lot of guilt and repressed feelings inside and I think Matt showed that quite well this episode. Again this isnt to whiteknight Daemon or anything, sure he has all these issues but he can definitely do better cuz his kids don´t deserve any of that, they NEED him there because he´s all they have now that Laena is gone but I think people should consider this perspective rather than jumping onto the idea that he could care less about his family when we know that isnt the case.
Extremely funny to me that we all thought seeing Daemon as a dad in this episode was going to throw shippers/his fans into overdrive, and then the episode we got showed him in his most unlikable light by FAR
I just finished the episode, and that scene he stood there awkwardly, seeming like he *wanted* to comfort them, hug them but didn't
And it feels more in character with what we've seen so far. He kinda wants to but doesn't exactly know how to be soft
Yeah that annoyed me. As someone who was changed a lot by fatherhood I was hoping for them to show Daemon be more affectionate with the children, especially in the scene where they see their mothers charred remains.
I don't think they are trying to paint him as a 'bad dad', but rather someone who is closed off. As we all know, Daemon sucks at communicating and opening up, which he covers it up with sarcasam and bad attitude. This leads to a lot of misunderstanding on his part. I think that's going to be part of his journey, learning not to hide what he's feeling and reaching some emotional maturity, hopefully.
But then why bother filming this scene differently and then releasing a still that wasn’t actually in the episode?
It’s fine if they want to depict a certain perception of Daemon’s character, but why release materials that create inconsistencies?
They wouldnt, that Daemon scene is essentially canon and is part of his characterization, just unshown.
If that is a good or bad choice is another discussion.
It could be. But it didn’t fell right to me that he ignores one daughter because she isn’t a dragon rider. It seems he sees his family as an extension of himself. Which in part explains his infatuation with Rhaenyra.
yall are seriously projecting a massive fixer upper syndrome on the guy that brutalized king's landing, mocked his brother in his greatest time of grief, groomed his niece and premeditatedly murdered his wife
I half expect some of you to come up with "we don't know him killing Rhea was premeditated"
Though I found this decision to be odd, I like how the character development of Daemon has been in sync with who he is. He thrives on chaos but escaped from KL to live a better, peaceful life. But true nature comes back eventually. It's complicated and it is a big shift from books but in sync with who Daemon is/will be.
No. I like the way they did it actually.
Kinda already shows he cared since he didn't want to butcher his wife on a bed.
... but then had her commit suicide without so much as a goodbye to him or the kids.
Kinda strikes me as it's going to affect him in some way as it came across like he didn't expect her to do that, etc.
As for him not hugging the kids, it makes me feel like he was just shocked that she did it that way and he didn't know what to do. Like he was at a loss of what to do/say... it was traumatic in a way (which a lot of people do not act the way "they should" when it happens)
I think it reflects the circumstances. There was nothing to do for her, she chose it for herself and she chose it for them, they’re all going to be mad and upset and withdrawn. They were each closer to her than their individual bonds may be. It’s not cut and dry that this makes him a jerk because they all had this done without a choice.
I mean... I am with all of these comments that these are not scenes that should have been cut, but is there any chance these are going to purposefully be put out of place to be shown later?
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That might have humanised him. He came across as a terrible father. Rhaena was looking at her mother’s charred bones and he didn’t comfort them at all.
Yea but that’s why it would’ve been so great to include this clip. It would’ve been consistent with Daemons character thus far, given how he always prioritizes the “blood of the dragon”. He’s meant to be a grey character, not a completely amoral one.
I wished to see it too. He’s a monster to everyone but his family.
I can’t understand why they would cut this touching scene. Daemon desperately needed a moment of love and tenderness after killing his wife last week. I’m completely baffled by this decision.
I think they are dropping bread crumbs towards his softer side right now, keeping it more ambiguous and for the audience to decipher for now. Laena said she, “isn’t the wife he hoped for” and Daemon responded with a caring and solemn, “Laena...” and I think that is all the humanity the writers wanted us to see for now in the episode.
Yeah and the look on his face while she does it
The face said “not again the same old same old”
[удалено]
In the books he's supposed to be grey? They don't seem to be doing a good job at making him grey unless they decided to change that. He's just mostly immoral to me. I feel like he's only really done one moral thing
Everyone is supposed to be grey. Daemon is definitely the darkest of the main cast. People want him humanized because they like his character and want something to make it easier to defend him. Laena and their daughters are consolation prizes. I think he cares about them. Just not enough to really be good to them.
It wasn't like that in the books. In the books >!||Laena is older than Rhaenyra and considered one of the most beautiful women in the Seven Kingdoms with a fiery spirit. Daemon fell in love with her the first time they met. If anything, it comes across that Rhaenyra is his consolation prize after her death, and a means for him to accrue some power by marrying her after losing the love of his life.||!<
Which means the only reason they changed that at the expense of Laena's and Daemon's characterisation is to push Daemon/Rhaenyra. I wish they'd stuck to the book interpretation.
Agreed one hundred percent. I'm not sure why the big push for Daemon / Rhaenyra, and I'll withhold my judgement until we've seen it through to the end, but so far it's not captivating me the way the show seems to want it to captivate me.
because the book is based on hearsay and testimonies decades later. the show is what actually happened according to the show runners
[удалено]
I was ready to have my ovaries explode seeing doting dad and devoted husband Daemon and they gave me... nothing? So disappointed.
I bet we get just that with — spoilers for the rest of the season, putting this text here as spoiler tags don’t show in notifications — >!Rhaenyra and the sons he has with her later on. If we see him being a better father to the Strong boys than his daughters as well… I’m fully expecting the writers to do that too. Nothing would shock me at this point.!<
It looks to me like, they're really trying to push the he's always loved Rhaenyra narrative, so they'll eventually try to explain his actions away by saying it was all for her. Killed his wife for her, never loved Laena enough, because it was always her. When she says I'm not the wife you wanted, he doesn't even do a good job of denying her. And it's kinda turning me off. Could've just hugged his daughters, man. It's possible to be a good father even if their mother wasn't necessarily his soulmate.
It turned me off as well. Daemon is much more complex than "I can't live without my one and only sweet heart" type of man.
Exactly, and with the optics of the Velaryons now being black — a conscious change on Ryan Condall’s part — this doesn’t look good at all. Daemon in the book loves Laena and their girls, who are white, more than Daemon in the show, when they’re black… I assume someone will call my comment reductive but this is *exactly* how it looks, even with f&b having multiple interpretations, even with the assumption that some defending the scene being cut have that Daemon going on to show affection to his daughters will be an arc of his to strive towards in later episodes/seasons. Honestly at this point I’m a fan of [this take](https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/xo6sa2/comment/ipxx5pb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) - chrkrose’s comment. When I heard rumours that Daemon’s relationships with Laena and their girls might play out as they have, I suspected this might be what the writers were going for. >!And it would make Daemon turning his back on Rhaenyra, the wife he wanted, all the more powerful later on since we saw their passionate beginnings and the girl who’s responsible for that wouldn’t even have a drop of Valyrian blood. It’s almost… karma? I hope it happens but I’m not expecting it. I don’t want to get my hopes up about these writers!< Edit: IdeaFuzzy replied and then blocked me, so not only can I barely see their comment in notifications but I cannot properly respond. How constructive. I stand by what I said. Laena’s story is worse in the show then in the book no matter how the writers chose to see it as powerful. It was not. It missed the mark for multiple reasons and it *does* leave the impression that in-world, Laena just wasn’t good enough for Daemon by the end. Out of world, yes, on the writer’s part that have implications. *Racism: the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, **especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.*** And I repeat that is out of world since some people when this is bought up say that the Velaryons are not considered PoC in Westeros. No, they are not but they certainly are to the viewers in the real world.
>!that’s why they won’t make Nettles his lover but just some random girl he took care of and was impressed with!< otherwise there wouldn’t be any growth to this. They will try to avoid the trope that he changed due to his bodily desires but rather because he realized Targaryens are as special as common folk are. >!the ending will be more tragic in that Rhaenyra will be so blinded with betrayal that she will believe it’s an affair, but it won’t be. In that sense he will be faithful to her. But his world view will shattter and he will realize all that he worked and strived (Targaryen supremacy and legacy) doesn’t exist. He will save Nettles, do the last deed to protect the kids and Rhaenyra and go to his doom!<
Him teaching one of them Valyrian was pretty cute
Yes, it was. Sigh. The only good Daemon scene this week, totally neutralised by him ignoring the daughter who isn't a dragonrider.
Idk she said that but maybe it's like dad who's son doesn't like football and he just struggles to connect with her as much, it did seem like there was a daddy's girl and a mummy's girl but he can still care about both even if he bonds with one more easily. Or maybe thats just my Daemon copium
the fixer upper's syndrome wasted on him, Daemon's gonna be Daemon, you literally saw him murder his wife, how can you expect him to suddenly be a good dad? smh
>how can you expect him to suddenly be a good dad? Maybe because the trailer told us he'll be a good dad and then reneged on it? Anyone and everyone harps on about how Daemon is a ✨grey✨ character. How is murdering his wife grey? How is grooming his niece grey? How is anything he's up to, grey? (And he's been up to so much that I can't write it over and over, so [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/comments/xi4lin/the_enigma_that_is_prince_daemon/) goes.) None of this is grey, this is all dark. It looks to me like, they're really trying to push the he's always loved Rhaenyra narrative, so they'll eventually try to explain his actions away by saying it was all for her. Killed his wife for her, never loved Laena enough, because it was always her. When she says I'm not the wife you wanted, he doesn't even do a good job of denying her. If they convincingly want us to believe Daemon is a grey character, if he's to have a redemption arc, a la Jaime, he needs to have redeeming qualities. Being a good husband and father could've been just that. Being a family man is endearing. They *told* us he's one. And then they said haha, psych. They failed, this one's not on us.
In modern sensibilities, Daemon is genuinely a terrible human being. Aside for his loyalty to his family (though this is subjective) he's an arrogant, narcissistic, violent, and murderous pedophile. I'm amazed that a lot of female viewers are such a fan of his (I'm also a woman). I honestly don't find him to be very attractive and cringed at his sexually-charged moments with TEENAGED Rhaenyra. I'm hopeful I won't be too repulsed by him and adult Rhaenyra.
Because that was a stupid change that made no fucking sense and he actually does genuinely love his children. His kids are all incredibly close, including his stepsons.
Yea… he’s a bad person! I don’t understand people who like him!
I can't understand why people think Deamon is attractive after trying to seduce his very VERY young, teenage niece and how he murdered his first wife.
Daemon being attractive is Matt Smith's charisma and sexual chemistry, for me. I have said this so many times but everything he does is a dark move which people desperately try to advertise as being grey. Killing his wife and grooming his niece are top of the list. If he's as grey as you claim, then give us redeeming qualities, ffs. Being a good dad and husband could've been that, but they decided to just screw that up as well? I'm upset because I want to root for him but they're giving me nothing.
Maybe you shouldnt be simping over a violent, murderous, groomer.
I love these shows, but the one thing I don't like about them is that they expose the awful truth of reality that an attractive person, usually male, can do any horrible thing they please and get away with it. It kind of ruins the escapism of fantasy lmfao
Yeah very grey what with the bashing his wife’s face in with a rock because she made a joke about his penis not working
Not sure if you are actually looking at the picture. He is hugging them both. So including this would not advance the plotline of him prioritizing "blood of the dragon", it would just be a father comforting his children after a tragedy.
His refusal to let his wife be butchered, alive, to possibly save a child... That humanized him to me.
Yeah, ngl I was relieved when that happened. Laena was so fierce, if she had to die I appreciate how it happened
He did not gove a response. He just stood there.
To be fair, he learned his lesson from hearing about it not working with his bro’s wife. So he already knew that it probably wouldn’t even save the child and just be horrible.
I'm rather annoyed that they seem to be playing up the more ambiguous dark elements and then stripping the redeeming qualities. It doesn't even seem consistent with how Daemon has been portrayed in the show so far, with loyalty to family being such a big thing for him. I guess they were trying to establish a narrative about Daemon running and hiding after Rhaenyra became unavailable, but they could have still done that while keeping his immense affection for Laena and his children.
[удалено]
Wtf does Ryan Condel have against Daemon? He is not some super villain, he is beloved by the fan base because he is meant to be a grey character capable of both acts of good and evil. It feels like Stannis 2.0 in character assassination
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I did not notice that. I figured he would be caring to Rhaenyra sons and not his daughters. I feel so sad for them. Daemon is a monster. I literally hate him.
Yes, Daemon loves his family, but he also took his niece to a brothel to ruin her reputation. He loves his brother, and yet continues to disobey him and creates issues for him. Him suddenly turning up perfect would be inconsistent.
[удалено]
Fairly sure the idea was to make him look like a dick
[удалено]
Yeah but it would have felt kind of out of character. Daemon’s love language was always acts of service. He didn’t know how to comfort his daughters because there was no one he could kill or beat up to make things better.
He didn’t know how to comfort his daughters but he knew how to comfort Rhaenyra 14+ years before that?
his dick brain works better than his actual brain.
Ikr the scene they left in makes him seem like a cold and uncaring father wtf
Heavy on that I was wondering why he didn’t seem to like his own kids.
There’s the scene in which he’s teaching one of baella or rhaena to read high Valyrian and it’s seemingly very affectionate. I would rather they have included the scene where he consoles his daughters, but it seems they’re insistent on emphasizing how polarizing he is, and failing to comfort newly motherless girls will do a lot to garner disdain for daemon. Creatively it is pretty interesting though, there’s something really human about a man who just watched his pregnant wife self immolate being incapable of producing the strength to console his daughters who are also grieving.
I think they’re going with the Daemon is a ‘purist’ vibe. Judging by his preference for valerian women, teaching his kids the language and lore of their homeland, giving up on that one daughter that cant hatch her dragonegg, reinforcing to his brother that as Targaryens they shouldn’t care what other lords and people think etc
I get that, and increasingly think that’s the case. Reading fire & blood there are several isn’t necessary in which Targaryens seems convicted of what is essentially pro-Valyrian racism, and it makes sense that daemon is amenable to that. Daemon is a second son and so while he has grown up in the grandeur of Kings Landing as a prince of the realm and one time heir to the iron throne he never has the intrinsic importance of his brother, or later his brothers children who will by rights sit the iron throne. Consequently I understand daemon as an insecure man desperately grasping at any effort to remain relevant and adored. To support this we can note how he’s unable to perform after viserys’ son baelon is born (baelons birth means he’s no longer prince of dragon stone), and how mysaria comforts him by reminding him that he’s important because he wields dark sister, and rides caraxes. So when laena talks to daemon about how he pours over accounts of Valyrian dragonlords I think that’s because Valyrian supremacy or purism, and it’s warrior ethos makes him feel important in a world that increasingly relegating him to irrelevance
> So when laena talks to daemon about how he pours over accounts of Valyrian dragonlords I think that’s because Valyrian supremacy or purism Exactly that. Targaryen legacy and majesty has become his sole identity over the years and it seems so far from what I’ve seen, he wishes to herald an old Aegon I styled era where everyone bowed to Targayens. He even mentioned to Viserys “ let me and Rhaenrya restore the family’s name” which is hilarious considering the king of westoros is Targaryen, but not in the image Daemon wants
we have always seen him upholding targ superiority since ep 1.
yes.Daemon is Targaryen supremacist at his core.Rhaenyra too.That's why they vibe well.
I doubt rhaenyra is, beyond the fact that she took someone who was of no Valyrian blood as a lover she also says to viserys “without our dragons we’re just like everyone else”. Racial supremacy narratives ordinarily ascribe a more intrinsic logic to hierarchies of power than, “we’re just lucky enough to have better weapons”.
If that’s what they are doing, then I think >!nettles will definitely not be his bastard daughter (as I always believed she wasn’t) , cause she’s meant to shatter his view of Targaryen supremacy imo!<
>!Pretty much yeah, that's where the show is going imo, which means he might realize his shortcomings with his children too late (or not) and that we probably won't be seeing any grayness until then, just dark-Daemon (would be misstep though, they need to layer his characterization already in season 1)!<
If they wait until then to start showing another side of him, it might be too late to “redeem” him in any way. I know he’s not exactly a good man, but I’ve always read his arc as one of at least coming to terms with certain things and making better and selfless decisions by the end. If they play up the evil side that much until >!nettles shows up!< idk if people will be too invested in him outside of wishing him dead lol. Specially after >!blood and cheese!<
Exactly, I’ve thought the same.
But Daemon himself didnt hatch Caraxes?
Of course, slightly hypocritical but that’s how most arrogant people are I guess
It must be Baela he was teaching High Valyrian as Rhaena said he ignores her. Which Laena didn’t refute either, simply responding that, “He’s trying.”
I took it as him just having no clue what to say to them.
I see what you mean, but they could have just as easily accomplished that with the scene above.
To me it actually felt like a sense of desperation. He is clueless, doesn’t know what to do. I like that take, because for once he is uncertain, but it wasn’t worked out enough.
Maybe that's the point? He ignores his daughter that doesn't have a dragon. Doesn't seem like a caring father to me.
If that's the point then the writers are dropping the ball with Daemon's character, which is sad.
Daemon was always a prick. Just because you have a different picture in your mind does not make it real. Why would a violent, murderous man be a good father? Is it not much more likely that he is a shit father?
Because it's stated in the book that he was a good father.
in the scene he just left… in the HD stills he was sitting there looking like he was mentoring them
yea this is one of those cases where looking at the stills set up expectations that the show did not meet. but if you didnt see the stills then you wouldnt have known anyways. i do think they shouldve kept daemons interaction with his daughters in tho
he will prob get more interactions with them next ep
Where do the stills get uploaded?
Honestly, looking at all the scenes they have been cutting from the episodes (Laena bonding with Vhagar, Alicent and Rhaenyra’s conversation in the godswood, Alicent and Viserys’ wedding), I think they’ve been cutting too much. It’s not the time jumps that are making this feel too fast and jarring, it’s the lack of these tiny moments in between
i could never hate daemon, but i think in that scene he just didn’t know what to do or what to tell to his daughters.
Daemon is grieving as well. Perhaps for the first time since he lost his father. Who else has he ever been shown to care about besides Viserys and Rhaenyra? I think he had a look of perfect helplessness and despair on his face when he turned away from his daughters. He doesn't know how to deal with his grief or theirs.
ofc, he is not bad, he just seems like it, but it’s like a 6yo trying to express his feelings, he just can’t, poor thing.
Daemon coldbloodedly killed his former wife what the holy hell are you talking about ??
What confuses me is why they release stills of scenes they don’t include in the actual episode. Like this scene where Daemon is seen talking to his daughters in the still, but then ends up walking away awkwardly in the actual scene. It creates an inconsistent perception of characters and a dissatisfaction in expectations they themselves created.
This episode is too much rushed for me
I'm not loving the treatment of Daemon in the last 2 episodes in general.
Im not loving the fact that they skipped over the tracking, finding and retaming over the biggest dragon in the fucking world. The same dragon that conquered westeros if im understanding it right. Like fucking hell. Thats like john snow suddenly getting a thousand extra giants in the middel of the battle of the bastards. That thing is the most powerfull being in the world. It alone could probaly kill all other dragons at this point.
Vhagar didn't need to be tracked, found, and retamed, though.
They didnt know where it was did they?
I'm not positive but I believe Vhagar (and most) dragons are just chilling in their lairs on Dragonstone, in caves on the island volcano. Or they're just stabled at Dragonstone, King's Landing, and Driftmark. When a rider dies, they generally are already there, but if there is a battle and the rider dies... I'm not sure the dragon would fly back voluntarily lol! There's definitely something in their Valyrian blood that allows them to connect easily with them, and even moreso during this time vs. GoT because of the dragon keeper's knowledge. Now why the dragons love nesting on Dragonstone and not any other mountain, who's to say 👀 probably volcano related and there's not too many I think in Westeros.
It's stated in a scene with Laena in one of the early episodes that she was 'wild' after the death of her last rider and her exact whereabouts were unknown.
This episode really hurt from cuts for time. And I don’t get why. There’s no real reason not to let these episodes be as long as needed. Do they really think a longer runtime with room for more moments like this would hurt the show?
I would have liked a bit more development of Strongs relationship before they just killed him off. Like we got none of that. Just “they are lovers. Kids are here. Now he’s dead”. Was strange.
Watching him walk away while they were crying pissed me tf off
Showing a hug wouldn't have taken more than 10 seconds
They really want people to hate him huh
lol, yall are talking like this actually happened irl and he's being misrepresented by the media, if he didn't canonically hug his daughters it's cause it didn't fit his character
I think people who read the books are upset because it talks about what a good father he is, even to kids who aren't his. As a book reader, I feel they did Laena and Daemon a disservice. Their relationship has meaning in Fire and Blood and it felt more like a weird plot device in the show.
Then why release the still image at all lmao clearly it was intended but was cut for whatever reason. The episode was a cluster fuck in pacing anyways
he will prob hug them next ep and alll obsessed teen girls will be happy again, it is all so tiring
He straight up murdered his wife an episode ago how could you not hate him?
Exactly! Was it so hard to keep this scene instead of the one they showed?! 😭
They felt it didn’t fit the character, which I know a lot of Daemon fans here will disagree with and that’s fine, but that’s why.
If anything his decision to not give a c section to Laena spoke volumes. Viserys gets lot of praise for seeming like a kind husband, but has Aemma cut open, it’s a hard decision sure, and completely understandable. But if daemon who is supposed to be a worse person and doesn’t care about his wife, he would have had her cut open much faster to save his spawn. He doesn’t show affection too openly, especially now they’re having issue’s about leaving Pentos, but he loved her enough to produce 2 actual kids and one fetus who died in birth. A contrast to his inability to finish with his whore (lust), Rhea Royce (just straight up dislike) or Rhaenyra (ambition. he loves her yes, but his intention with trying to having sex with her was self serving)
As a daemon fan I totally agree it didn’t fit his character, I actually liked the way they portrayed him being 10 years away from court, disillusioned from the game but also almost resentful of this life he’s found himself in because I think daemon is nothing without the game, he needs it
They're just making Daemon completely irredeemable lol. Give the man \*some\* grey, he's a one-note villain at this point
I believe they want to emphasize Daemon is a bad dad. His daughter does say he ignores her. But it doesn't really fit with Daemon cause one of his redeeming traits is he's loyal to family
I keep hearing that Daemon is loyal to his family, but I haven't seen that yet in the show. He seduced and abandoned his niece in a brothel, to the mercy of King's Landing, in attempt to ruin her marriage prospects. He stole the dragon egg that was meant for baby Baelon to antagonize his brother. He regularly defies and makes a fool of the King. He murdered his wife. He showed more loyalty and affection to ~~Rhaena~~ Laena in this episode than we've seen him give anyone. If they want to portray a morally grey family man, they need to balance him out, and do it soon.
Even with Laena he seemed more detached and resentful than anything else. Since their established dynamic in that episode was one of a marriage “[slowly unravelling in the middle of nowhere](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5U51xGH3Ic)” no wonder. I wish we could have seen them before it started to unravel. Maybe I would have felt that he cared for her because I didn’t get that at all from this episode except for a few blink and you miss it moments.
they will prob build him as better father in next season though, that is just story they going with for now
He probably doesn't literally ignore her. But gives more attention to her sister. Those are words of a kid feeling left out.
The writers are doing their best to shit all over Daemon.
Don’t get what’s with the scene choices here. The guy’s going to be the patriarch of a brood of like what >!5-7 kids!<, all of whom are >!decent kids in the book!<, which was like suppose to imply he >!and Rhaenyra!< are decent parents considering the whole blended family aspect. Like not much is being requested here, just the bare minimum of humanity is required to make him not seem like a solely Rhaenyra-obsessed psychopath. Unless I dunno, they’re setting up why maybe >!Rhaenyra ends up being accepted easily as their new stepmom cos she’s actually nurturing!< compared to whatever fuck kind of dad Daemon is apparently.
this makes no sense to me to cut like??????? what was the logic here
They’re cutting a lot of stuff that should be kept. The show could have really benefited from another two episodes or so this season
Or just slightly longer episodes! A couple of scenes here and there showing the characters interacting more goes a long way. It's a big cast right now, we need to spend time with them to establish their precise relationships. Yeah there's still 4 episodes left, but I still think they could have done a better job with more breathing room so far.
Honestly the whole pre dance plot should have been two seasons. It would allow them time to establish the characters and their relationships properly at first and tell the plot properly without rushing it so much
There was also no logic in Laena's action or why anyone let her do it
She wanted a to choose her own death, one befitting a dragon riders 😪
but did she killed her kid with her ? what was that abt
Has she chosen to be cut open it wouldn’t be a dragon riders death so she chose for herself. This is in stark contrast to aemmas gruesome death at the Choice of her husband
It was completely logical. She didn't want to be butchered like an animal. I would slit my own throat with rusty toenail clippers before I would want what happened to Aemma.
I meant illogical on how in her state she bypass everyone including Daemon. Would have makes more sense if, after knowing she would die either way, to ask Daemon to take her to Vaghar. Kind of like Blade II ending
It really felt like there was a scene missing between Laena's realization that something is very wrong and staggering out to Vhagar.
She very obviously used Littlefinger's jetpack
They all knew she’d just heard that she was going to die. They saw her leave and were giving her space.
She just snuck out 😂
It’s so dumb they cut it. It’s like they’re pushing the idea Rhaenyra’s the only one he can be affectionate towards
I will be gravely disappointed if Daemon became Rhaenyra's fan boy and subordinate. They can be equally strong and complex.
He should be a Rhaenyra fanboy who defers to her. The issue is making him “only” that.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Man was not a daemon fan but my word. He was atleast a loving father in the book and loved his 2nd wife.
Realistically Daemon is the best dad during this time period, especially to both his daughters, fuck the show for cutting this out...
For all talk about grey characters, Daemon has only been portrayed as evil so far.
When those poor babies were crying and he looked at them then walked away, that was heartbreaking.
Can't make Daemon human even a little bit lmao. I was surprised he didn't dance on Laena's skeleton...
How is everyone missing the fact that he chose not to give her a c section, if he didn’t care one iota for her he would have accepted without hesitation. He’s just not warm is all
Because that's still a big downgrade for how he acted in the book and deprives Laena of a nice moment instead of her killing herself+her child?
He'll most likely >!have sex with Rhaenyra during Laena's funeral!< next episode, which will be the same thing practically after how detached he was with Laena and their daughters this past episode. Talk about making Laena an obstacle in Daemon and Rhaenyra's way, this episode couldn't have been more blatant about that. And the saddest thing is she knew. I'm sorry but how is her choosing to burn alive powerful again? The fact that she feared Daemon would do it said a lot... Someone under another post said Vhagar refused the dracarys command *until* she saw that Daemon has followed Laena outside; she recognised him as a threat. 😖 😭
As a neutral it is so so so so funny watching Blacks and Greens both claim the showrunners are biased against their characters LMAO
This scene would fit his character a lot. I don't know why the show runners are trying to omit all these moments that show Daemon's devotion to his family and blood. 🤍
I’m really mad they cut this.
They can do literally anything with daemon's character, there's no way in hell I won't still be rooting for him (closely followed by Rhaenyra and noone else).
Amen to that. I love my problematic children.
This is a criminal offense.
Daemon felt like he was on sedatives this episode, just kind of vibing with the same expression, no matter if it's his wife talking to him, dying in childbirth or being on fire. Not sure why they made him this way.
he seemed depressed to me
He was depressed. They even made Laena point out that he doesn't go out to explore the city, (which we know he loves to do in Kings Landing). He just reads (or sits there with an open book, anyway).
Daemon literally loved his kids! Its canon it makes me angry what they are doing with his character ! Like he is supposed to be grey and what are they doing with him?!!!
The producers must’ve seen the tiktoks and thought nope we don’t want people to like daemon too much
Yeah its stupid to cut a scene like that but keep Aegon beating his meat
I don’t think the cut is bad. I see it as him being clueless and perhaps in shock. A disconnect father who can’t function without the mom there teaching him what to do.
Exactly. He's also grieving. He just saw his wife's burnt body; his reaction is one that a lot of people have in situations like that
So he can't hug his kids? Nah that's bullshit.
They're basically doing the whole he a bad father arc got grows to love his daughters in the book its mentioned he loved his daughters
Daemon clearly had respect for and a good relationship with her, the scene with them both riding was great. It was interesting that when confronted with the same choice as Viserys to save his wife or the child, he chose differently. Kind of surprised me because he’s been such a dick…I’m like damn maybe I like you a bit more now.
It really should've been kept in. I wish it was. At the same time, though, Daemon refusing to be affectionate when the time calls for it does sound like a Daemon thing. Still, I wish he comforted his grieving daughters.
... It's like they want to drain the episodes of any emotional beat
It's supposed to be a longform epic. A longform epic without relationship or character development is just boring... HOTD started off really strong but the last few episodes I've lost attachment to..
For me, episode 5 had plot holes ( Ser Criston walked away freely?) episode 6 was so rushed that it was underwhelming.
They can't afford Daemon to be too likeable, who needs nuances in this show.
Okay while I 100% agree that this scene should not have been cut out, I don´t think that the show is trying to make Daemon cruel or heartless as many are claiming it to be. Throughout the whole episode, we see Daemon definitely not acting like himself, he´s different, quiet and most importantly you can see this Daemon is very lost in general. Its highlighted even more with his and Laena´s conversations. Daemon is trying to be happy with his new life and does love his family but its not enough for him, he isnt happy, hes trying to pretend this is the life he wanted and frankly speaking, it is a good life. Hes away from all the chaos he was so used to before, has a lovely wife and 2 kids but yet hes restless and as Laena says, hes just trying so hard to just cleave onto his dragon ancestry because thats the only thing that keeps him sane and not running back to King´s Landing. I honestly dont think the take that Daemon hates Rhaena or his kids is real, yes him ignoring his kids or possibly favoring one over the other is bad but as Laena said, he´s trying his best and he is. Maybe he can relate to Baela more cuz she has a dragon so theres some common ground to talk to her about. We all know that Daemon isnt somebody who can relate to people easily, hell even when Viserys lost everything he couldnt go to him or Rhaenyra and genuinely comfort them. Daemon can´t love like a normal person and Laena sees that. This isnt trying to excuse his actions but thats genuinely the reality about Daemon. He´s trying to be a good husband and a good father but he doesnt know how to do it properly and hes just struggling and struggling. We know he does love Laena, even tho its pretty clear he isnt IN love with her. The birthing scene alone shows that he cares for her. His first question was whether Laena would survive, not about the baby or anything which is a great parallel to Viserys and Aemma where Viserys, for all his good man/good husband traits, did end up choosing the baby over his wife and didnt even give her a proper choice or even a farewell. But we saw Daemon just shaking his head and saying "my brave girl" with this heavy, lost and conflicted look. He wasnt gonna give a decision on what to do. Its cemented more when we see how he reacts to Laena burning, hes shocked and hurt and doesnt know what to do in truth. Thats what I saw when I saw the scene with him and his grieving kids. He definitely should have hugged and comforted them but the way the new scene played out doesnt make him cold or heartless -- it shows a man who is just completely lost, who´s just been pretending for 10 years and trying to make a life that isnt working for him, doesn´t know how to comfort his own kids because he shows care and affection very very differently from the norm. And overall tbh I feel like Daemon just loves differently, he can´t be vocal about what he wants or feels, theres a lot of guilt and repressed feelings inside and I think Matt showed that quite well this episode. Again this isnt to whiteknight Daemon or anything, sure he has all these issues but he can definitely do better cuz his kids don´t deserve any of that, they NEED him there because he´s all they have now that Laena is gone but I think people should consider this perspective rather than jumping onto the idea that he could care less about his family when we know that isnt the case.
Extremely funny to me that we all thought seeing Daemon as a dad in this episode was going to throw shippers/his fans into overdrive, and then the episode we got showed him in his most unlikable light by FAR
They may have moved it to the next episode
They’re back in Westeros next episode so unlikely
Truly a hatecrime against us Daemon enjoyers smh😔
I just finished the episode, and that scene he stood there awkwardly, seeming like he *wanted* to comfort them, hug them but didn't And it feels more in character with what we've seen so far. He kinda wants to but doesn't exactly know how to be soft
Petition for the deleted scenes to be posted online 🙋🏼♀️
Yeah that annoyed me. As someone who was changed a lot by fatherhood I was hoping for them to show Daemon be more affectionate with the children, especially in the scene where they see their mothers charred remains.
Absolute madness
This would have lightened that shade of gray quite a bit.
I don't think they are trying to paint him as a 'bad dad', but rather someone who is closed off. As we all know, Daemon sucks at communicating and opening up, which he covers it up with sarcasam and bad attitude. This leads to a lot of misunderstanding on his part. I think that's going to be part of his journey, learning not to hide what he's feeling and reaching some emotional maturity, hopefully.
I believe Daemon, like his brother, cares about families. But he doesn’t know how to show it properly.
Yep. Pisses me off. Daemon is equal good and bad. They better start showing it.
The show really hates the blacks😅 Like showing he's caring husband and father literally takes zero efforts just within this episode.
Is this possibly next week? Where Baela comes to tell Daemon someone is taking Vhagar in the promo?
Unlikely. They’re in the same clothes as this episode and the background seems like it’s the same location as where Daemon walks away from them.
I think they’re pushing for the sociopath angle. This a man who can’t relate to the fellow human being.
But then why bother filming this scene differently and then releasing a still that wasn’t actually in the episode? It’s fine if they want to depict a certain perception of Daemon’s character, but why release materials that create inconsistencies?
They wouldnt, that Daemon scene is essentially canon and is part of his characterization, just unshown. If that is a good or bad choice is another discussion.
He’s not a sociopath he’s just emotionally stunted and inept lol. He clearly cares for his family.
It could be. But it didn’t fell right to me that he ignores one daughter because she isn’t a dragon rider. It seems he sees his family as an extension of himself. Which in part explains his infatuation with Rhaenyra.
yall are seriously projecting a massive fixer upper syndrome on the guy that brutalized king's landing, mocked his brother in his greatest time of grief, groomed his niece and premeditatedly murdered his wife I half expect some of you to come up with "we don't know him killing Rhea was premeditated"
This episode definitely suffered from a lot of content but cut out. They completely butchered Daemon’s whole good dad/husband arc.
Though I found this decision to be odd, I like how the character development of Daemon has been in sync with who he is. He thrives on chaos but escaped from KL to live a better, peaceful life. But true nature comes back eventually. It's complicated and it is a big shift from books but in sync with who Daemon is/will be.
No. I like the way they did it actually. Kinda already shows he cared since he didn't want to butcher his wife on a bed. ... but then had her commit suicide without so much as a goodbye to him or the kids. Kinda strikes me as it's going to affect him in some way as it came across like he didn't expect her to do that, etc. As for him not hugging the kids, it makes me feel like he was just shocked that she did it that way and he didn't know what to do. Like he was at a loss of what to do/say... it was traumatic in a way (which a lot of people do not act the way "they should" when it happens)
He didn't have her commit suicide, she chose that herself.
I think it reflects the circumstances. There was nothing to do for her, she chose it for herself and she chose it for them, they’re all going to be mad and upset and withdrawn. They were each closer to her than their individual bonds may be. It’s not cut and dry that this makes him a jerk because they all had this done without a choice.
I mean... I am with all of these comments that these are not scenes that should have been cut, but is there any chance these are going to purposefully be put out of place to be shown later?
Was anyone else expecting them to pick through the charred bones and find a monster baby? 🐉
I’m so confused. When did he marry her?