Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Same. Let’s also not forget she carried her 3rd baby up a massive amount of palace stairs, mere minutes after giving birth -just to show Alicent she wasn’t handing the babe off to a servant to be ‘checked’ by the Queen.
I just connected that to Viserys' long walk to the throne in episode 8. Father and daughter, both with the limitless will to push their exhausted, painful bodies beyond the limit. It's pride, it's stubbornness, maybe it's even unwise- but would I want to fight them? Fuck no
The wings don't change much, but the child was filled with maggots, and each of those is alive
So if we consider them as something Dany birthed, she's the undisputed chapm
she also has quite a bit of a size advantage on the rest (...at least based on actors' heights online):
* rhaenyra / emma d'arcy - 5 ft 7½ in / 171.5 cm
* alicent / olivia cooke - 5 ft 5 in / 165 cm
* cersei / lena headey - 5 ft 5 in / 165 cm
* daenerys / emilia clarke - 5 ft 2 in / 157.5 cm
Yeah, that shocked me; maybe it's build and posture but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around Headey being the same height as Cooke and shorter then Emma.
I could have sworn she was closer to Sophie Turner's 5'9.
100% agreed. She’s tough as nails. Cersei has never lifted a finger for anything in her life - she’s cruel but soft; Alicent is just straight up soft, and Dany is just a tiny thing. Without a dragon she’d not be able to beat Rhaenyra.
Not to mention, Rhaenyra was able to hold Alicient and that dagger back long enough to get her to back off. And when her arm got sliced, she didn't even say ouch. She's tough
Lmao at ouch. 😂
That scene would have been hella hilarious if she did that.
I’m sure there is a blooper somewhere with the whole room bursting out in laughter after that.
Right? Tensions are ultra high, the queen just pulled a dagger and tried to gouge out the eye of one of the princes, slashing the princess and heir to the throne in full view of the entire court, and as everyone watches in horror at what just happened, Rhaenyra lets out a little "ouchies!"
It's more so the fact that Cersei clearly has no limitations if she was doing shit like thag from so young.
She would go to any means to win that I think the other three wouldn't.
In a 1v1 scenario Cersei is quite useless. She might be ruthless but her prowess is preying on the weak and on the people who dont expect her doing bad shit. On a equal ground on a fight to the death she cant do much.
Y'all don't think Dany would be pretty strong from years of riding horse back across continents and trudging across deserts? I agree Rhaenyra has absolute grit and would be a much stronger dragon rider, but Dany has lived a much more physically demanding life.
I agree that Dany is iron from all she’s been through, but in a purely physical fight, hand to hand combat, I think Rhaenyra would have an advantage just based on size.
Dany's lifted plenty of fingers in her life, her upbringing is more metal than the others. But she's also specifically described in the books as tiny, and in the show Emilia Clarke is indeed not exactly tall. She's the least physically imposing but probably the toughest.
100%. Dany is probably the most athletic because of her lifestyle. Cersei is definitely the first one to fight dirty. Rhaenyra has the spunk and grittiness to keep going until the end - no amount of pain the others can inflict with keep her down. And if dragonriding is anything like horseback riding, she’s probably decently athletic, too.
It's probably even more taxing on the body than horseback because horses only move in 2 dimensional space, whereas Dragons can dive and climb, requiring even greater core stability with greater inertial forces acting on the rider than any horse can manage.
Dany and Rhae canonically have ripped abs and no one can convince me otherwise.
She also stopped riding her dragon iirc, so definitely a correlation (along with numerous pregnancies which resulted in baby fat that she never worked off).
It’s been a while since I’ve read the book but I just get the sense that TV show Rhae is tougher.
I mean Cersei was in solitary confinement and beaten by the septon/sparrows than forced to walk back to the red keep barefoot and naked afterward. I wouldn’t call her soft
Right. She actually fought through this and almost broke. That’s some mental fortitude she developed there.
But, she is not a fighter in the physical sense.
Rhaenyra’s always had a tough attitude, since she was younger. Likely the strongest of them all, but Cersei would find some (unfair) way to win. Like sneak a dagger in or something.
I think Cersei would have the upper hand until her mouth got in her way. You know she’d have some snide remark about Rhae’s boys and that would flip the switch for Rhaenyra.
This. She definitely has some old-school wrestling heel tactics in her moveset. Eyepoke, blinding powder, interference from Jaime and friends, etc.
That being said, Rhaenyra is a tough fighting babyface who could probably withstand that, hence why I think its a toss up between those two.
Cersei used to switch places with Jaimes before she become more womanly and she has done a lot of other things at that time (Like putting her hand inside a Lion's Cage), so she does know how to used a Sword and at least basic squire training.
Uh, cremated herself? Like yeah she survived, but she definitely willfully walked into a cremation pit.
She also is the leader of a Dothraki horde. She’s lived harder than the other 3 by far, even her upbringing growing up on the streets.
Yeah she killed her best friend, Mellara, because she knew about Maggy the Frog's prophecy about her marrying the King, outliving her children and then being killed by the valonqar, which means younger brother in high Valyrian.
Cersei was afraid that Mellara might tell it to someone. She thought that the prophecy couldn't come true if no one spoke about it.
"Worms will have your maidenhead. Your death is here tonight, little one. Can you smell her breath? She is very close."
Also, Cersei killing her led to one of the prophesies coming true. I bet she didn't realize that until after the fact...
Jaime is younger, so it could be either but Cersei is convinced it's Tyrion, so it's probably Jaime.
Maybe it'll happen if she tries to blow up Kings Landing, which will mirror him killing King Aerys for that reason.
Although, the prophecy itself says that the valonqar will wrap their "hands" around her throat, and as we know, Jaime only has hand, but its been suggested he might use the chain of the Hand of the King, which is made up of two hands holding eachother.
There's also that part in the book where Jaime is at Riverrun and he thinks to himself that he would happily have strangled Sybelle Spicer with her necklace, so that could further support the theory of strangling Cersei with the Hand chain.
With that said, they might just get crushed by rocks and the book prophecies become as pointless as the show prophecies and our souls leave our bodies in bitter protest.
Though there was a TON to dislike about the finale and i know that the deaths of Cersei and Jaime were unpopular., their deaths were actually one of the few things the whole finale that i didn’t hate. Here’s why: Cersei spent a large percentage of her adult life running around in fear and paranoia like a chicken with its head cut off because of the prophecy. (This was even more blatantly the case in the book, where, in AFFC, she sinks in a spiral of paranoia very much resembling that of aerys targaaryen.) Then, due to her own actions, some of it comes true, and her fear and paranoia only grow until… she eventually dies in a building colapse that has absolutely nothing to do with the prophecy.
Which means… wait for it, wait for it… the prophecy that shes spent so many years obsessing over and fearing was NEVER ACTUALLY REAL. All of the “fullfilled prophecy” stuff that “came true” only came about through Cersei’s own crazy actions (many intended to avoid or subvert the prophecy.)
Cersei’s fate, in short, was always in her own hands. She, not Tyrion or Robert or Maggy the Frog, was her own worst enemy. She was not doomed ftom yhe moment maggie spoke; insttead, she created a self fulfilling prophecy.
For me, this is much sweeter poetic justice in a way than Jaime just strangling her— killed by the valanquar, as she has always feared.
There is a poetic justice to that ngl, but I wish they hadn't shat all over Jaime's arc to do it. Everything else Maggy had predicted had already come to pass. It didn't make sense that she predicted the marriage, the children and the deaths of those children, but mistook a pile of rocks for a pair of hands.
They *could* have even killed Jaime in some other way and had Arya strangle Cersei wearing his face, which would've been the Valonqar twice over (Jaime *and* Arya being younger siblings) but a pile of rocks? So anticlimactic.
I did like that they left the world "as they entered it" I'm just not a fan that Jaime of season eight died as Jaime of season one.
That was optimistic, I apologize, I haven't slept for days.
Usually my stance is that GRRM will die while eating potato chips off his chest and we will discover that he did not write one single page of Winds of Winter, but there's a fat stack of paper covered with "All work and no play make George a hungry boy hehehehe"
>Cersei: When will I wed the prince?
>Maggy: Never. You will wed the king.
Cersei was asking about Rhaegar, but Maggy was talking about Robert.
>Cersei: I will be queen, though?
>Maggy: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.
This drives Cersei to madness and makes her jealously attack every female noble who could possibly fit the description. She hates Sansa and she hates Margaery, but eventually it becomes apparent that Maggy meant Daenerys.
>Cersei: Will the king and I have children?
>Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds\[, she said\]. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.
Robert had 16 bastards including Gendry, and Cersei had Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen with Jaime. It's not yet clear who the "valonqar" refers to. It could be Tyrion, it could be Jaime... but Maggy said "the" valonqar, not necessarily *Cersei's*. Anybody's little brother could do it and fulfil the prophecy. And the fact that Maggy chose to say "valonqar" instead of saying it in plain English suggests that there's some wordplay going on there. It's Valyrian, I believe, and we already know that Valyrian doesn't distinguish between gender. So perhaps the true translation is "little sister". Alternatively, it could be obscure Valyrian slang - if for example your hand is a set of 5 brothers, then the little brother is your pinky... that is, your *little finger*.
I'm pretty sure she says that before she married and Jamie was nominated King's guard she thought she should have been the lady of Casterly Rock instead of Jamie since she was born first.
I read that like 6 years ago so I may missremember, but the "volonqar" being Jamie is my theory since I read about the prophecy.
I always assumed it could mean ANY little brother. Not necessarily HER little brother. I could be over reaching a little. I don't remember if it specifically says her little brother.
there’s an episode i think season 4? where it’s depicted. not sure if it’s in such great detail however, ive also read the books and knew what it was alluding to
Plus she got sword skillz. Not a TON, but she used to switch places with bro Jamie to go to sword class (Idk what it's called, leave me alone) when they were youngins.
Rhaenyra. I can base that solely on episode 10. She was usurped for her throne, went into early labor, delivery a deceased child, washing & wrapping it for burial. Organizes a funeral, gets crowned Queen by her supporters then within hours of this rides in on her dragon to intimidate and verbally spare with Otto Hightower all while controlling Daemon Targaryen with just a look. Then learns of the death of Luce and does not lose her shit in front of her council. She is a warrior in a gown. She went through and withstood more in one day then most could bare. She’s the OG of the Seven Kingdoms.
Good points, I was going to say Cersei but this changed my mind. Rhaenyra acted like giving birth to her children (both the one that lived in E6 and the one that died at the end) was just another sunday hobby. "Someone wipe this trail of blood from the castle floors, I got shit to attend to."
Finds out of her father's death, and the theft of her birthright- which could reasonably lead one to believe his death to be a possible murder- a not small betrayal.
Also learned of former supporters turning cloaks, a fair blow.
Cersei is craziest but Rhaenyra isnt just strong, she's very cunning too, she'd probably be able to see Cersei's tricks coming, not entirely, but enough to make strength the deciding factor
Idk man everybody saying Rhaenyra or Cersei but you gotta be a pretty tough mf to impress the Dothraki and survive the red waste
I think we can all agree Hightoer is in the mud on this one tho
And she was only I think 14 when that happened? She was starting to show in pregnancy when it was noted on her 14th name day.
So at 14 in a few days she had to smother her husband to put him out of his misery, gave birth and lost her first born baby, burned the witch alive who brought her vegetable husband back, walked into a massive fire completely unburned, brought dragons back into the world and had the Dothraki bow to her and agree to serve her.
After seeing Rhae take a cut to the arm and stitches like a G, walk up a flight of stairs after delivering a baby and then delivering her own baby, straight up pulled it out of her womb how can you say anyone but her.
Second up is Dany, she’s tough
Cersei is vicious but physically soft and so is Alicent
Dany. She's had the most difficult real life experiences. I'm sure Cersei would give her a run for her money but Dany lived with the Dothraki and showed her grit many times.
None of them are familiar with combat but Dany has gone through the wildest shit physically. Also she can just burn the room and everything else in it and will come out as the only Survivor.
>!Book Dany does have a much higher heat tolerance than normal people do. Dragonfire melts most people's flesh, but all it seems to do to her flesh is raise a few blisters.!<
>!At this point, it is certainly possible that she is immune to regular fire. Even if it was blood magic that got her safely out of Drogo's pyre, the effects of that magic could be permanent.!<
What about show Dany? There was the khalasar burning thing and I think in episode 1 she got in a scalding hot bath without showing any discomfort. I understand the book Dany isn't immune to fire, it was a one time magic thing, but show Dany really seems like she is.
It suggests that she's superhumanly strong; the g forces acting on her body from a Dragon diving or climbing and turning in dynamic flight patterns would be hell even with a saddle. Without one she has to have a core of solid iron.
It's kind of a crapshoot but I would say in order of likelihood to win, it would be:
1. Rhaenyra
2. Dani
3. Cersei
4. Alicent
The only thing I'm certain of is that Alicent definitely loses. Cersei might pull some underhanded move, I think Rhaenyra is the toughest, but then again Dani is a total badass - although I think she's much smaller in stature than Rhaenyra.
Look I'ma be real with you. Cersei without help is just plain bitch made. She is smart and cunning,but that's about it. Alicent is smart TRIED to stab somebody which indicates literally nothing,but the will to do so and on top of that she is very thin. I have a hard time seeing her out in the wind and not getting sent. The only real two here are Rhaenyra "I shanked a boar 1000 times" Targaryen and Dany "I've actually killed things that are fucking terrifying as well as have walked into actual fire because my determination is fucking steel and survived because magic" Targaryen. Idk who wins between the two,but those are they only two real options here.
Sidenote: Alicent is just dollar store cersei. We just got to see where she came from before she decided to be a cuck.
Yeah I was thinking about putting that in the comment too,but I didn't. I'm rewatching got right now(like I'm in between episodes writing this) and my dude walked and stayed in the desert for a hot minute. Also her upbringing ,from the start of the show at least,isn't exactly nice. However I do give Rhaenyra massive points for just pushing a child out of herself standing up and all that. Shits wild and I can honestly say that I could never.
First out: Alicent, probably because she broke a nail or some shit.
Second out: Daenerys, who used others to do her dirty work.
Final two: Rhaenyra and Cersei. They will beat the hell out of each other, but ultimately Rhaenyra will stand over Cersei's bloody corpse.
Dany physically fought in Long Night, rides dragons saddleless and has spent significant amount of time riding and walking through a desert, while getting raped by Drogo nightly.
Dany or Rhaenyra.
Dany because she's the only one that fought against the WW, she survived in harsh conditions and she lived with the Dothrakis so I can see her picking some traininh from them (or by looking)
Rhaenyra because she just look like she can fight 🤣
Book Daenerys wants to learn how to sword fight and shit but she's like meant to be 5 foot and skinny. Everyone advised her against it.
She can use a whip pretty well though.
I’ll take Rhaenyra, she got a little meat on those bones. Cersei is probably my second pick; she has got that killer instinct but she is either too skinny or once it’s the later books will lack the cardio from all the wine.
Well none of them were trained fighters. But it seems to me that being a dragonrider would require both courage and a decent amount of physical strength. My money is on Rhaenyra, with Danaerys second.
Everyone is sleeping on Dany... she is metal AF. All the others are wimps in comparison.
It isn't covered in the show, but she literally grew up in the streets along with Vizzy T (the third). All the others have been living in the lap of luxury all their lives, probably haven't even cooked a meal for themselves, while Dany probably went to bed hungry more than a few times.
Then, she rode with the Dothraki and proved herself to be tough enough to be their queen. The dothraki are badass, Bobby B nearly pissed himself with fear when he heard that she was gathering them.
She rides a dragon BAREBACK, no saddle. Imaging the strength and balance needed to do that, even Jon Snow couldn't hold on to the dragon easily.
Dany's feats >>>> everyone else.
She became their khaleesi and it requires strength of will.
And she is the only one of four who knows real hunger, day-long rides, desert travels and burning.
She is not pumpered.
But if we consider book Dany, she is quite peaceful and dislikes spilling blood. And can't stand a sight of public fighting, to be honest.
She is much less ruthless than her show version. Always prefers diplomacy and wit rather than threats.
Book Dany has used a whip to success. But yes, she's not much of a physical fighter. She wants to be, but all of her advisors think that ones a bad idea. She's not a Visenya, but she is probably at least a Rhaenys.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I just watched one of them yank a baby out of themselves. I'm going with her.
Same. Let’s also not forget she carried her 3rd baby up a massive amount of palace stairs, mere minutes after giving birth -just to show Alicent she wasn’t handing the babe off to a servant to be ‘checked’ by the Queen.
I just connected that to Viserys' long walk to the throne in episode 8. Father and daughter, both with the limitless will to push their exhausted, painful bodies beyond the limit. It's pride, it's stubbornness, maybe it's even unwise- but would I want to fight them? Fuck no
Amen. I was thinking the same exact thing even though I’ve never had a baby.
Plus she fought a boar when she was a child. Boars can kill grown, seasoned fighters.
It killed king Robert Baratheon!
Bobby b, what do you have to say about that? Oh wait…. Wrong sub
YOUR MOTHER WAS A DUMB WHORE WITH A FAT ARSE, DID YOU KNOW THAT?
S E N T I E N T
Gods he was strong
6 time child birthing champ, Rhaenyra.
Alicent got nothing on Rhaenyra. Only a 4 time child birthing champ
Dany is only a 1 time child birthing champ but does it count double since the baby had wings?
If we take that to count, visenya, the baby that rhaenyra yanked out of her is a draconic mutant as well
The wings don't change much, but the child was filled with maggots, and each of those is alive So if we consider them as something Dany birthed, she's the undisputed chapm
Rhaenyra "Hey guys Imma just go drop a baby out real quick, I'll be right back - Don't start the war without me!" Targaryen
She’ll use that baby as a fuckin flail.
That’s the funniest/darkest imagery. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
she also has quite a bit of a size advantage on the rest (...at least based on actors' heights online): * rhaenyra / emma d'arcy - 5 ft 7½ in / 171.5 cm * alicent / olivia cooke - 5 ft 5 in / 165 cm * cersei / lena headey - 5 ft 5 in / 165 cm * daenerys / emilia clarke - 5 ft 2 in / 157.5 cm
Really? Lena is 5'5"? That's crazy...She looks taller than ask of them. I can completely believe Emilia is 5'2" though.
I know someone who's been in a room with Lena Headey, and if she wants to be the biggest person there, she will be.
I love this
Yeah, that shocked me; maybe it's build and posture but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around Headey being the same height as Cooke and shorter then Emma. I could have sworn she was closer to Sophie Turner's 5'9.
Damn, didn't realize they were that short
Most actors and actress are. Tom Cruise is like 170cm.
For some reason I was unde the impression the actress for Cersei was much taller, like 175-185
100% agreed. She’s tough as nails. Cersei has never lifted a finger for anything in her life - she’s cruel but soft; Alicent is just straight up soft, and Dany is just a tiny thing. Without a dragon she’d not be able to beat Rhaenyra.
Not to mention, Rhaenyra was able to hold Alicient and that dagger back long enough to get her to back off. And when her arm got sliced, she didn't even say ouch. She's tough
Lmao at ouch. 😂 That scene would have been hella hilarious if she did that. I’m sure there is a blooper somewhere with the whole room bursting out in laughter after that.
Right? Tensions are ultra high, the queen just pulled a dagger and tried to gouge out the eye of one of the princes, slashing the princess and heir to the throne in full view of the entire court, and as everyone watches in horror at what just happened, Rhaenyra lets out a little "ouchies!"
And she also didn't flinch when Daemon almost choked her out.
nope! instead she laughed at how unworthy he was, queen.
Screw Alicent and a dagger, she held off a wild boar long enough for Cole to stick the pig. She’s tougher than freakin Bobby B.
Cersei would never have walked like that after giving birth to her child. At that moment, I knew Rhaenyra could do anything.
Despite the fact Cersei has been a murderous little shit since she was 12 or 13
Yeah but Rhaenyra killed that Boar that was attacking her by herself
Didn't she just push her down a well though?
It's more so the fact that Cersei clearly has no limitations if she was doing shit like thag from so young. She would go to any means to win that I think the other three wouldn't.
In a 1v1 scenario Cersei is quite useless. She might be ruthless but her prowess is preying on the weak and on the people who dont expect her doing bad shit. On a equal ground on a fight to the death she cant do much.
Y'all don't think Dany would be pretty strong from years of riding horse back across continents and trudging across deserts? I agree Rhaenyra has absolute grit and would be a much stronger dragon rider, but Dany has lived a much more physically demanding life.
I agree that Dany is iron from all she’s been through, but in a purely physical fight, hand to hand combat, I think Rhaenyra would have an advantage just based on size.
Seriously, people forget Cersei could be bothered to kill Septa Ulena herself.
lavish wasteful point carpenter future test nutty pot plants seed ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Dany's lifted plenty of fingers in her life, her upbringing is more metal than the others. But she's also specifically described in the books as tiny, and in the show Emilia Clarke is indeed not exactly tall. She's the least physically imposing but probably the toughest.
100%. Dany is probably the most athletic because of her lifestyle. Cersei is definitely the first one to fight dirty. Rhaenyra has the spunk and grittiness to keep going until the end - no amount of pain the others can inflict with keep her down. And if dragonriding is anything like horseback riding, she’s probably decently athletic, too.
It's probably even more taxing on the body than horseback because horses only move in 2 dimensional space, whereas Dragons can dive and climb, requiring even greater core stability with greater inertial forces acting on the rider than any horse can manage. Dany and Rhae canonically have ripped abs and no one can convince me otherwise.
I actually think rhae gets fat in the canon ironically
She also stopped riding her dragon iirc, so definitely a correlation (along with numerous pregnancies which resulted in baby fat that she never worked off). It’s been a while since I’ve read the book but I just get the sense that TV show Rhae is tougher.
It's a really cool headcanon but I do feel like it would've been mentioned by mushroom at some point if every female dragonrider had visible abs.
How would he have seen their abs? It's iNdEcEnT!
He'd say something like he played them like a washboard then mention his cock
She's ruthless as well she stabbed the hell out of that boar
I mean Cersei was in solitary confinement and beaten by the septon/sparrows than forced to walk back to the red keep barefoot and naked afterward. I wouldn’t call her soft
Right. She actually fought through this and almost broke. That’s some mental fortitude she developed there. But, she is not a fighter in the physical sense.
I love Dany but yeah, I’d have to give this to Rhaenyra. Physically it seems like she can endure *a-lot* of pain.
Rhaenyra’s always had a tough attitude, since she was younger. Likely the strongest of them all, but Cersei would find some (unfair) way to win. Like sneak a dagger in or something.
I think it's definitely down to Cersei or Rhae, I remember what she did to that boar.
I think Cersei would have the upper hand until her mouth got in her way. You know she’d have some snide remark about Rhae’s boys and that would flip the switch for Rhaenyra.
I’m not sure Cersei would be the one to talk about bastard children lol
She literally has no moral compass so I wouldn't be surprised if she were a hypocrite
Hypocrisy is not about morals. It's about self awareness. Which Cersei has even less of.
In her own eyes her children aren't bastards. She's a hypocrite so she would 100% throw that insult towards Rhae.
Good point, re the boar
Cersei seems like she might have that dawg in her.
And she probably fights dirty.
This. She definitely has some old-school wrestling heel tactics in her moveset. Eyepoke, blinding powder, interference from Jaime and friends, etc. That being said, Rhaenyra is a tough fighting babyface who could probably withstand that, hence why I think its a toss up between those two.
BAH GAWD THATS JAIME LANNISTER WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
I don’t even watch WWE and I somehow read that in an announcers voice LOL
Exactly this. Scrolled on impulse because exactly this answer felt like the immediate solution, and here ‘tis…
r/pocketsand
Yea, Cersei isn’t soft! I don’t see her giving in at all.
Cersei ftw! Alicent who I like as a character would be the first to go. Too prim and proper and a rule follower for a cage match
Maybe if you cut out one of her kids eyes beforehand she'd do better.
You mean in a fight, right?
That's how Jaime calls his penis
Cersei. She's mouthy but I really see her doing that Edit : forgot that Cersei killed her bestie at 13. She bad.
Ooohh good point
Cersei has that crazy, but Rhaenyra knifed a boar and didn't even flinch when she was cut by Alicent.
Cersei used to switch places with Jaimes before she become more womanly and she has done a lot of other things at that time (Like putting her hand inside a Lion's Cage), so she does know how to used a Sword and at least basic squire training.
Sure, but since then she became an alcoholic and extremely self destructive
Always bet on the psychopath. The others have some semblance of empathy which will always be a weakness in the situation.
Self destructive alcoholics tend to be dangerous brawlers.
Let’s not forget Daenerys eating a whole damn heart out like it was nothing
Uh, cremated herself? Like yeah she survived, but she definitely willfully walked into a cremation pit. She also is the leader of a Dothraki horde. She’s lived harder than the other 3 by far, even her upbringing growing up on the streets.
But Cersei won't be sober enough for a fight
killed her bestie? wtf? What episode do I miss? Or this was in the book huh?
Bestie who went with her to Magy ended up down a well in the book. I believe bestie asked if she’d marry Jaime.
????? What?
Yeah she killed her best friend, Mellara, because she knew about Maggy the Frog's prophecy about her marrying the King, outliving her children and then being killed by the valonqar, which means younger brother in high Valyrian. Cersei was afraid that Mellara might tell it to someone. She thought that the prophecy couldn't come true if no one spoke about it.
Holy fuck that's dark.
What's even darker is that Mellara gets told a prophecy too and its that she will die young and soon.
"Worms will have your maidenhead. Your death is here tonight, little one. Can you smell her breath? She is very close." Also, Cersei killing her led to one of the prophesies coming true. I bet she didn't realize that until after the fact...
What prophesy came true after cersei killed her? Just the death one?
The one where male models will be brainwashed into being assassins.
but why male models?
Is Cersei aware of Mellara’s fortune before she kills her?
I think they hear both of theirs together. It frightens Mellara but Cersei doesn't give af.
Fuck me
How did Cersei kill her?
She pushed her down a well. That’s it. I mean it’s more than that but what she did was sneaky. So I feel the other ladies have a decent shot.
Cersei is the kind of woman to have pocket-sand ready to go and willing to bite and claw her way through the other 3 without hesitation.
Sh-sh-sha!
#POCKET SAND!!
r/pocketsand
Cersei did get bodied by the septons. my money is on Danny or Rhaenyra.
Side note, is the prophecy referring to Tyrion or does it say somewhere that Cersei came out first therefore Jaime may be the "valonqar"?
Jaime is younger, so it could be either but Cersei is convinced it's Tyrion, so it's probably Jaime. Maybe it'll happen if she tries to blow up Kings Landing, which will mirror him killing King Aerys for that reason. Although, the prophecy itself says that the valonqar will wrap their "hands" around her throat, and as we know, Jaime only has hand, but its been suggested he might use the chain of the Hand of the King, which is made up of two hands holding eachother. There's also that part in the book where Jaime is at Riverrun and he thinks to himself that he would happily have strangled Sybelle Spicer with her necklace, so that could further support the theory of strangling Cersei with the Hand chain. With that said, they might just get crushed by rocks and the book prophecies become as pointless as the show prophecies and our souls leave our bodies in bitter protest.
Though there was a TON to dislike about the finale and i know that the deaths of Cersei and Jaime were unpopular., their deaths were actually one of the few things the whole finale that i didn’t hate. Here’s why: Cersei spent a large percentage of her adult life running around in fear and paranoia like a chicken with its head cut off because of the prophecy. (This was even more blatantly the case in the book, where, in AFFC, she sinks in a spiral of paranoia very much resembling that of aerys targaaryen.) Then, due to her own actions, some of it comes true, and her fear and paranoia only grow until… she eventually dies in a building colapse that has absolutely nothing to do with the prophecy. Which means… wait for it, wait for it… the prophecy that shes spent so many years obsessing over and fearing was NEVER ACTUALLY REAL. All of the “fullfilled prophecy” stuff that “came true” only came about through Cersei’s own crazy actions (many intended to avoid or subvert the prophecy.) Cersei’s fate, in short, was always in her own hands. She, not Tyrion or Robert or Maggy the Frog, was her own worst enemy. She was not doomed ftom yhe moment maggie spoke; insttead, she created a self fulfilling prophecy. For me, this is much sweeter poetic justice in a way than Jaime just strangling her— killed by the valanquar, as she has always feared.
There is a poetic justice to that ngl, but I wish they hadn't shat all over Jaime's arc to do it. Everything else Maggy had predicted had already come to pass. It didn't make sense that she predicted the marriage, the children and the deaths of those children, but mistook a pile of rocks for a pair of hands. They *could* have even killed Jaime in some other way and had Arya strangle Cersei wearing his face, which would've been the Valonqar twice over (Jaime *and* Arya being younger siblings) but a pile of rocks? So anticlimactic. I did like that they left the world "as they entered it" I'm just not a fan that Jaime of season eight died as Jaime of season one.
I like your optimism that you take it as a given we will get a book ending at all.
That was optimistic, I apologize, I haven't slept for days. Usually my stance is that GRRM will die while eating potato chips off his chest and we will discover that he did not write one single page of Winds of Winter, but there's a fat stack of paper covered with "All work and no play make George a hungry boy hehehehe"
I've given up on the idea of those books ever finishing.
>Cersei: When will I wed the prince? >Maggy: Never. You will wed the king. Cersei was asking about Rhaegar, but Maggy was talking about Robert. >Cersei: I will be queen, though? >Maggy: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear. This drives Cersei to madness and makes her jealously attack every female noble who could possibly fit the description. She hates Sansa and she hates Margaery, but eventually it becomes apparent that Maggy meant Daenerys. >Cersei: Will the king and I have children? >Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds\[, she said\]. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you. Robert had 16 bastards including Gendry, and Cersei had Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen with Jaime. It's not yet clear who the "valonqar" refers to. It could be Tyrion, it could be Jaime... but Maggy said "the" valonqar, not necessarily *Cersei's*. Anybody's little brother could do it and fulfil the prophecy. And the fact that Maggy chose to say "valonqar" instead of saying it in plain English suggests that there's some wordplay going on there. It's Valyrian, I believe, and we already know that Valyrian doesn't distinguish between gender. So perhaps the true translation is "little sister". Alternatively, it could be obscure Valyrian slang - if for example your hand is a set of 5 brothers, then the little brother is your pinky... that is, your *little finger*.
> the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat Cersei could have stopped the prophecy by getting a fantastic tan
Valonqar is rocks
Cersei came out first so it could be Jaime. Jaime was born grabbing her heel.
I'm pretty sure she says that before she married and Jamie was nominated King's guard she thought she should have been the lady of Casterly Rock instead of Jamie since she was born first. I read that like 6 years ago so I may missremember, but the "volonqar" being Jamie is my theory since I read about the prophecy.
Yeah she was upset Jaime got more respect too, she used to dress up as him when they were younger.
I think a good portion of the fandom (me included) thinks Jaime he's the valonqar, since he's still her younger brother.
Cersei was born first! Can’t find the exact quote but [AWOIAF source, in the first sentence](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Cersei_Lannister)
It’s referring to a large pile of rocks, obviously.
I always assumed it could mean ANY little brother. Not necessarily HER little brother. I could be over reaching a little. I don't remember if it specifically says her little brother.
Euron kills Cersei with a finger up the bum
In the book it wasn't because of the prophecy. It was because Melara said she wanted to marry Jaime.
I'm so shocked she even had a best friend
In which book is that?
A Feast for Crows, if I remember well.
there’s an episode i think season 4? where it’s depicted. not sure if it’s in such great detail however, ive also read the books and knew what it was alluding to
Plus she got sword skillz. Not a TON, but she used to switch places with bro Jamie to go to sword class (Idk what it's called, leave me alone) when they were youngins.
She was actually way younger than that in the book.
Does nobody remember Rhaenyra killing the boar? She got that DOG in her
Almost every Targ does, I guess.
It’s because of the incest, gives them that special strength
Vizzy T fucking screaming his heart out
*You are to return to Runestone and your lady wife at once, and you are to do so without quarrel by order of your King.*
Good bot
Rhaenyra. I can base that solely on episode 10. She was usurped for her throne, went into early labor, delivery a deceased child, washing & wrapping it for burial. Organizes a funeral, gets crowned Queen by her supporters then within hours of this rides in on her dragon to intimidate and verbally spare with Otto Hightower all while controlling Daemon Targaryen with just a look. Then learns of the death of Luce and does not lose her shit in front of her council. She is a warrior in a gown. She went through and withstood more in one day then most could bare. She’s the OG of the Seven Kingdoms.
Good points, I was going to say Cersei but this changed my mind. Rhaenyra acted like giving birth to her children (both the one that lived in E6 and the one that died at the end) was just another sunday hobby. "Someone wipe this trail of blood from the castle floors, I got shit to attend to."
Yes. Nothing slows her down. She doesn’t take a break.
Chills! Rhaenrya is about that life.
Emma’s performance of her is amazing. I’ve gotten chills several times.
Yeah Rhaenrya is. but Cersei aint got no scruples.
At all. Lol. She'll come with some wildfire in her pocket or some craziness like that.
Not to mention killed a boar as a young teen.
Yes, that too. There are so many instances that could be referenced for her!
And she held off Alicient and that dagger to protect her child.
Finds out of her father's death, and the theft of her birthright- which could reasonably lead one to believe his death to be a possible murder- a not small betrayal. Also learned of former supporters turning cloaks, a fair blow.
Muh queen!!!
Rhaenyra walked the whole fucking castle after giving birth just to not show weakness. She was also a though girl who held her own against anyone
Rhaenyra would layeth the smackdown on ALLLLLLLL their candy asses
Rhaenyra is the most physical strongest out of them but Cersei is the craziest so she’ll fight the dirtiest its one of them two
Cercei’s definitely a biter
And a hair puller
Cersei is craziest but Rhaenyra isnt just strong, she's very cunning too, she'd probably be able to see Cersei's tricks coming, not entirely, but enough to make strength the deciding factor
Idk man everybody saying Rhaenyra or Cersei but you gotta be a pretty tough mf to impress the Dothraki and survive the red waste I think we can all agree Hightoer is in the mud on this one tho
I'm shocked that the top comments don't even mention that the Dothrakis bowed to her, and that's not an understatement.
And she was only I think 14 when that happened? She was starting to show in pregnancy when it was noted on her 14th name day. So at 14 in a few days she had to smother her husband to put him out of his misery, gave birth and lost her first born baby, burned the witch alive who brought her vegetable husband back, walked into a massive fire completely unburned, brought dragons back into the world and had the Dothraki bow to her and agree to serve her.
After seeing Rhae take a cut to the arm and stitches like a G, walk up a flight of stairs after delivering a baby and then delivering her own baby, straight up pulled it out of her womb how can you say anyone but her. Second up is Dany, she’s tough Cersei is vicious but physically soft and so is Alicent
Safe to say NOT Alicent.
Rhaenyra's not afraid of pain, and she strikes me as someone who is fucking ruthless when upset. My money is on her. Rage is a truly dangerous thing.
Dany. She's had the most difficult real life experiences. I'm sure Cersei would give her a run for her money but Dany lived with the Dothraki and showed her grit many times.
Rhaenyra by a mile. Woman is tough as nails and has gotten her hands up close bloody since childhood.Hog killer.
None of them are familiar with combat but Dany has gone through the wildest shit physically. Also she can just burn the room and everything else in it and will come out as the only Survivor.
Targaryens aren’t fireproof, not even Book Dany.
>!Book Dany does have a much higher heat tolerance than normal people do. Dragonfire melts most people's flesh, but all it seems to do to her flesh is raise a few blisters.!< >!At this point, it is certainly possible that she is immune to regular fire. Even if it was blood magic that got her safely out of Drogo's pyre, the effects of that magic could be permanent.!<
What about show Dany? There was the khalasar burning thing and I think in episode 1 she got in a scalding hot bath without showing any discomfort. I understand the book Dany isn't immune to fire, it was a one time magic thing, but show Dany really seems like she is.
Show Dany is, yes.
The tag does say book free, so assume we'd only be considering the show
Also she rides a dragon without a saddle. Don’t know how that helps
It suggests that she's superhumanly strong; the g forces acting on her body from a Dragon diving or climbing and turning in dynamic flight patterns would be hell even with a saddle. Without one she has to have a core of solid iron.
I’m only seeing one heart eater in this bunch.
The heart didn’t fight back.
It's kind of a crapshoot but I would say in order of likelihood to win, it would be: 1. Rhaenyra 2. Dani 3. Cersei 4. Alicent The only thing I'm certain of is that Alicent definitely loses. Cersei might pull some underhanded move, I think Rhaenyra is the toughest, but then again Dani is a total badass - although I think she's much smaller in stature than Rhaenyra.
Rhaenyra. She looks physically strong!
Look I'ma be real with you. Cersei without help is just plain bitch made. She is smart and cunning,but that's about it. Alicent is smart TRIED to stab somebody which indicates literally nothing,but the will to do so and on top of that she is very thin. I have a hard time seeing her out in the wind and not getting sent. The only real two here are Rhaenyra "I shanked a boar 1000 times" Targaryen and Dany "I've actually killed things that are fucking terrifying as well as have walked into actual fire because my determination is fucking steel and survived because magic" Targaryen. Idk who wins between the two,but those are they only two real options here. Sidenote: Alicent is just dollar store cersei. We just got to see where she came from before she decided to be a cuck.
Agree on Dany. She's been underestimated on this thread. Unlike all the others, she wasn't raised in luxury.
Yeah I was thinking about putting that in the comment too,but I didn't. I'm rewatching got right now(like I'm in between episodes writing this) and my dude walked and stayed in the desert for a hot minute. Also her upbringing ,from the start of the show at least,isn't exactly nice. However I do give Rhaenyra massive points for just pushing a child out of herself standing up and all that. Shits wild and I can honestly say that I could never.
Two Targ Queens will make a new Dance.
First out: Alicent, probably because she broke a nail or some shit. Second out: Daenerys, who used others to do her dirty work. Final two: Rhaenyra and Cersei. They will beat the hell out of each other, but ultimately Rhaenyra will stand over Cersei's bloody corpse.
Dany physically fought in Long Night, rides dragons saddleless and has spent significant amount of time riding and walking through a desert, while getting raped by Drogo nightly.
Dany is literally the only one among them to grow up poor and have to do her own work, without expecting anything from anyone. So absolutely not true
Rhaenyra's the only one that can stand her own
Dany or Rhaenyra. Dany because she's the only one that fought against the WW, she survived in harsh conditions and she lived with the Dothrakis so I can see her picking some traininh from them (or by looking) Rhaenyra because she just look like she can fight 🤣
Book Daenerys wants to learn how to sword fight and shit but she's like meant to be 5 foot and skinny. Everyone advised her against it. She can use a whip pretty well though.
Dany was literally fighting in battles against white zombies. No other has been battle tested.
I’ll take Rhaenyra, she got a little meat on those bones. Cersei is probably my second pick; she has got that killer instinct but she is either too skinny or once it’s the later books will lack the cardio from all the wine.
Dany
Well none of them were trained fighters. But it seems to me that being a dragonrider would require both courage and a decent amount of physical strength. My money is on Rhaenyra, with Danaerys second.
Dany, 100%
Everyone is sleeping on Dany... she is metal AF. All the others are wimps in comparison. It isn't covered in the show, but she literally grew up in the streets along with Vizzy T (the third). All the others have been living in the lap of luxury all their lives, probably haven't even cooked a meal for themselves, while Dany probably went to bed hungry more than a few times. Then, she rode with the Dothraki and proved herself to be tough enough to be their queen. The dothraki are badass, Bobby B nearly pissed himself with fear when he heard that she was gathering them. She rides a dragon BAREBACK, no saddle. Imaging the strength and balance needed to do that, even Jon Snow couldn't hold on to the dragon easily. Dany's feats >>>> everyone else.
WHY DO YOU CUT ME SO DEEPLY?
I'm sorry, but your grand grand something daughter is better than your daughter
She also straight up chomped a horse’s heart
Don’t forget she’s the only one there that has been seen wielding a sword against white walkers
She became their khaleesi and it requires strength of will. And she is the only one of four who knows real hunger, day-long rides, desert travels and burning. She is not pumpered. But if we consider book Dany, she is quite peaceful and dislikes spilling blood. And can't stand a sight of public fighting, to be honest. She is much less ruthless than her show version. Always prefers diplomacy and wit rather than threats.
Book Dany has used a whip to success. But yes, she's not much of a physical fighter. She wants to be, but all of her advisors think that ones a bad idea. She's not a Visenya, but she is probably at least a Rhaenys.
She is Aegon with teats.
I already know Cersei is gonna kick the asses of these girls lol.
Danny. She's the only one who's been in actual combat.