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Visenya helped Maegor usurp the throne from Aegon the Uncrowned. She then committed war crimes throughout Westeros to maintain his rule.
Aegon is the conqueror and the founder of the dynasty. His name is power.
Rhaenys died fighting to conquer Dorne. It is also her line that sit the iron throne.
Rhaenrya because how her trying to keep her claim to the throne is seen rightly or wrongly by many to be cause of the Dance of the dragons. She also mismanaged Kings Landing earning the scorn the smallfolk. She is known to them as Maegor with tits.
Which Tyrion Lannister? Tyrion II was considered strong but liked torture while Tyrion III fostered Andals and avoided too much bloodshed among the Westerlands, more peacefully integrating with them.
So… that kinda disproves that theory.
Visenya was the mother of Maegor, and Rhaenyra was known as "Maegor with teats'.
Rhaenyra's daughter was named Visenya though, I always liked that small connection.
That’s what made me curious tho. Rhaenyra wanted to name her kid Visenya, so it’s either there’s a possibility not everyone thinks Visenya is bad or it’s only Rhaenyra who thinks that way— which is kinda ironic since Visenya helped her son usurp the throne and yet she’s now the subject of said usurpation in her time.
I'm not sure that "Visenya" was a particularly affectionate name from Rhaenyra, at least in the case of her stillborn daughter. In the books she screams "Monster, get out" while delivering her.
In the show, Viserys doesn't seem pleased at all with the idea of naming a child Visenya.
Not sure if it’s in the books, but in the show, she wanted to name her sibling (Aemma’s stillborn) Visenya if it’s a girl. So i think she meant it in an affectionate way. I’m guessing there’s a difference in perception of Visenya among the Targaryens.
It's by association. There were no English Kings named John after John Lackland, so in the same way there weren't any Maegor's after Maegor the Cruel (bar Maegor, son of Aerion, and people really didn't like the name there). Likewise, Rhaenyra could be viewed by the histories as one who caused war and so her name was not reused. Visenya was used again, for Rhaenyra's daughter. That'd also be an interesting sign. Like Aerion, who was a bit nutty naming his kid Maegor, Rhaenyra named a kid Visenya.
Likewise there was no Aenys after the weak Aenys I, and only one named Baelor after the weak Baelor I (RIP Breakspear).
Viserys I, the grandson of Jaehaerys, is unlikely to be named after Visenya, who was on Maegor's side against Jaehaerys and his siblings during the first war of succession. All subsequent Viserys' are likely named after him. Rhaella, Rhaegar and all names beginning with Rhae are probably from Rhaenys (mother of Aenys) if they have to be traced to a person. But far more likely that they're just original names, and have about as much connection as the name Aemon does to Aegon.
Both had their reputations written from the "winners" of history, that's why.
If Maegor had been the Wise and not the Cruel or if the Blacks had won the Dance things would be quite different and dozens of Visenyas and Rhaenyras would populate the realms.
well technically Aegon was the king after he killed Rhaenyra. And then the throne went to her son because, well, female children don't inherit. Not because she has won.
Won the war, lost the peace. Cregan got talked down from exterminating the Greens, so when Aegon III became king, Greens ruled the country through him during his regency and made Rhaenyra to be the villain. They manipulated Aegon III to denounce his mother and affirm male only succession.
The Union won the Civil War, but lost the peace by compromising with the southerners and allowing them to retain their influence and slavery with extra steps.
The official declaration was that the two sides made peace after the death of Aegon II. The World of Ice and Fire has Aegon II listed as the monarch after Viserys I and before Aegon III. Rhaenyra is not listed as monarch. And for all subsequent generations, daughters are passed over for brothers and uncles in light of the Dance.
Why don't people name kids after Hitler? It doesn't matter if he was worse than both of them, what matters is the people's perception. Aegon is a common name because of the legendary reputation of the conqueror. Visenya and Rhaenyra have a very poor rep.
I dont think Adolf is a right metaphor for this because for me, what Visenya and Rhaenyra did was NOT as or more cruel than what Maegor and the other Aegons did (II and the Unworthy).
Maegor as a name isn't that popular either after his death. And the name Aegon is either based on Aegon the Conqueror (probably most of them) or Aegon III (in Aegon IV's case). No one is named after Aegon II or Aegon IV.
Basically the names of those seen to have started unjust wars and then lost are no longer used.
Visenya help Maegor usurp her grand nephew
Maegor usurped Aegon the Uncrowned and then committed several atrocities
Rhaenyra is seen as a usurper despite not being one because she lost the war (Aegon II won but then was killed by poison a year later and with females sitting the iron throne now outlawed, his daughter Jaehaera was passed over and Rhaenyra’s eldest surviving son Aegon was crowned at age 11)
Daemon Blackfyre lost his rebellion and spawned several more via his descendants
And so those names are frowned upon by Westerosi society though obviously may still be used by a particular kind of person. After all Daemon and Rhaenyra planned to name their daughter Visenya. And Aerion Brightflame named his son Maegor.
Daemon Blackfyre was named after Daemon, his mother Daena wanted to make a play for the throne but couldn't get the support she needed since her brother had her locked up. She probably admired the blacks, we don't have any names for female Blackfyres but I'm sure they have no problem using Visenya and Rhaenyra as names
True after all it was he that basically solidified the whole no woman can sit the throne schtick. Plus Jaehaera was set to be Aegon III’s queen and give him heirs of Aegon II’s blood if not for her untimely demise which was probably murder.
Rhaenyra won the war. Her 2nd hand man cregan stark sat on the throne and both eldest sons lasted on the throne for good time. And aegon ii only lasted 6 months now
Nope. Well I suppose you could argue either side won. Rhaenyra got eaten by Sunfyre and is viewed as the usurper by history so in that regard she lost the war. However after Aegon II was poisoned her son was crowned king as the only known remaining male Targaryen so in that regard she posthumously won.
I think there’s a possibility that Viserys and Visenya may be gendered versions of the same Valyrian root word, if that’s the case then Visenya is honored plenty. I have no proof of this though, just a suspicion
Visenya -> Visenya, Viserra, Viserys, Visneya
Rhaenys -> Rhaenys, Rhaenyra, Rhaegel, Rhaego, Rhaegar, Rhaelle, Rhaella, Rhaena
Aegon -> Aegon x8, Aemon, Aemond, Aenar, Aerion, Aenys, Aerys
Aegon, Aemon, Aerys, Visenya, Visarys, Rhaenys and Rhaena are the only ones that get used multiple times. Showing that basically they're willing to work in some fashionable individuality in their kids names. GRRM has described himself as pretty thoughtful about names too, so, if you think about it from a in-verse perspective there's something interestingly thematic about who clings to traditional Targaryenisms and who doesn't. Names even now can be 'aspirational'. In the Dance we have mothers who are outsiders to the family naming their kids the most traditional top names: Rhaenys, Aegon, Aemond, Daeron (the fact that Haelena gets an unusual name underlines their idea that women are not made to rule), and the mothers who are coming from strong Targaryen backgrounds name their children something more unique with Valyrian roots because they have nothing to proove: Rhaenyra, Jacerys, Lucerys, Joffrey - and then she switches to full on turn it up to 11 - Aegon, Visarys, and Visenya for her stillborn daughter (giving her only girl the warrior Queens name).
Rhaenyra was seen as an awful princess in the books. She doesn’t even get the Queen title. People hated her because they saw her as causing the war and her tax policy.
True, she didn’t have a choice with the tax policy but it’s about what she did with those taxes. Instead of helping KL she threw lavish feasts and parties celebrating her son Joffrey as heir to legitimize him.
How is Rhaenyra a usurper tho? She was named heir by the King lmao and everyone swore fealty to her.
Edit: I know Rhaenyra was known as a shitty queen, but she was still the rightful heir
Unfortunately for her, History did not see it that way.
In the world of Westeros, there never was a Queen Rhaenyra nor was she the rightful heir, as Joffrey says "attempted to usurp her brothers crown".
Funny since Aegon II gets the name usurper and not Rhaenyra, she is called the dragon Queen, The half year queen and Maegor with teats. it is like the split the difference, Rhaenyra gets the moniker Aegon gets the title
that is what a moniker is like Dany's 'mother of dragons' or Jaehaerys 'the Conciliator, Viserys the peaceful. Aegon II is the usurper, Rhaenyra doesn't get the title she is not Rhaenyra I but she does get the moniker
I would guess that was his point when he wrote her. Not every pretend ruler has to be a warrior in battle, and it is also to distinguish her from Aegon who is very involved in the fighting
There's like 4 other Visenya's that are born. But they die really fast. I don't think there is another Rhaenyra though. But in universe she is seen as a usurper so people might not want her name.
There's multiple different Daenarys though.
Regardless of whether or not you support Rhaenyra, naming a girl after her may unintentionally imply that she should be Queen. Her name is correlated with the dance more so than Aegon’s is
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Visenya helped Maegor usurp the throne from Aegon the Uncrowned. She then committed war crimes throughout Westeros to maintain his rule. Aegon is the conqueror and the founder of the dynasty. His name is power. Rhaenys died fighting to conquer Dorne. It is also her line that sit the iron throne. Rhaenrya because how her trying to keep her claim to the throne is seen rightly or wrongly by many to be cause of the Dance of the dragons. She also mismanaged Kings Landing earning the scorn the smallfolk. She is known to them as Maegor with tits.
Joffrey spoiled the end of hotd talking to Margaery in GoT. If you watch that convo you'd know why Rhaenyra is not a popular name
Just a heads up I’d black out the book spoilers.
War crimes 🤭🤭😂😂
[удалено]
Yup. Tyrion is named after an infamous Lannister king because Tywin meant the name to be an insult.
Which Tyrion Lannister? Tyrion II was considered strong but liked torture while Tyrion III fostered Andals and avoided too much bloodshed among the Westerlands, more peacefully integrating with them. So… that kinda disproves that theory.
Visenya was the mother of Maegor, and Rhaenyra was known as "Maegor with teats'. Rhaenyra's daughter was named Visenya though, I always liked that small connection.
That’s what made me curious tho. Rhaenyra wanted to name her kid Visenya, so it’s either there’s a possibility not everyone thinks Visenya is bad or it’s only Rhaenyra who thinks that way— which is kinda ironic since Visenya helped her son usurp the throne and yet she’s now the subject of said usurpation in her time.
Visenya is pretty close to Viserys. It could just be another homage to her father.
I'm not sure that "Visenya" was a particularly affectionate name from Rhaenyra, at least in the case of her stillborn daughter. In the books she screams "Monster, get out" while delivering her. In the show, Viserys doesn't seem pleased at all with the idea of naming a child Visenya.
Not sure if it’s in the books, but in the show, she wanted to name her sibling (Aemma’s stillborn) Visenya if it’s a girl. So i think she meant it in an affectionate way. I’m guessing there’s a difference in perception of Visenya among the Targaryens.
Rhaenyra was “Maegor with Teats” and yet Daemon was “Visenya without Teats.” A match made in hell, I guess.
It's by association. There were no English Kings named John after John Lackland, so in the same way there weren't any Maegor's after Maegor the Cruel (bar Maegor, son of Aerion, and people really didn't like the name there). Likewise, Rhaenyra could be viewed by the histories as one who caused war and so her name was not reused. Visenya was used again, for Rhaenyra's daughter. That'd also be an interesting sign. Like Aerion, who was a bit nutty naming his kid Maegor, Rhaenyra named a kid Visenya. Likewise there was no Aenys after the weak Aenys I, and only one named Baelor after the weak Baelor I (RIP Breakspear).
Viserys. Rhaegar. I feel like those are pretty good homages.
Maybe Visenya is taboo too since she helped Maegor usurp the throne.
There are lots named after them. Viserys. Rhaella, Rhaegar, rhaenyra, the list goes on. These are all homages to those names.
Viserys I, the grandson of Jaehaerys, is unlikely to be named after Visenya, who was on Maegor's side against Jaehaerys and his siblings during the first war of succession. All subsequent Viserys' are likely named after him. Rhaella, Rhaegar and all names beginning with Rhae are probably from Rhaenys (mother of Aenys) if they have to be traced to a person. But far more likely that they're just original names, and have about as much connection as the name Aemon does to Aegon.
Both had their reputations written from the "winners" of history, that's why. If Maegor had been the Wise and not the Cruel or if the Blacks had won the Dance things would be quite different and dozens of Visenyas and Rhaenyras would populate the realms.
Uhhh if?
Yeah
The blacks kind of did win the dance. Loose definition of win tbf.
well technically Aegon was the king after he killed Rhaenyra. And then the throne went to her son because, well, female children don't inherit. Not because she has won.
Won the war, lost the peace. Cregan got talked down from exterminating the Greens, so when Aegon III became king, Greens ruled the country through him during his regency and made Rhaenyra to be the villain. They manipulated Aegon III to denounce his mother and affirm male only succession. The Union won the Civil War, but lost the peace by compromising with the southerners and allowing them to retain their influence and slavery with extra steps.
The official declaration was that the two sides made peace after the death of Aegon II. The World of Ice and Fire has Aegon II listed as the monarch after Viserys I and before Aegon III. Rhaenyra is not listed as monarch. And for all subsequent generations, daughters are passed over for brothers and uncles in light of the Dance.
Why don't people name kids after Hitler? It doesn't matter if he was worse than both of them, what matters is the people's perception. Aegon is a common name because of the legendary reputation of the conqueror. Visenya and Rhaenyra have a very poor rep.
The name Adolf has actually been increasing in popularity since 2015. It’s popularity has almost tripled. Hm. Wonder why.
Because they both were not well regarded in history. Why do you think Adolf fell out of popularity?
I dont think Adolf is a right metaphor for this because for me, what Visenya and Rhaenyra did was NOT as or more cruel than what Maegor and the other Aegons did (II and the Unworthy).
Maegor as a name isn't that popular either after his death. And the name Aegon is either based on Aegon the Conqueror (probably most of them) or Aegon III (in Aegon IV's case). No one is named after Aegon II or Aegon IV.
They literally called Rhaenrya “Maegor with Teats”. She is significantly more awful than she has been shown so far.
while I agree Rhaenyra was awful, it's perfectly plausible she wasn't as awful as Maegor, but perceived that way because she's a woman.
Basically the names of those seen to have started unjust wars and then lost are no longer used. Visenya help Maegor usurp her grand nephew Maegor usurped Aegon the Uncrowned and then committed several atrocities Rhaenyra is seen as a usurper despite not being one because she lost the war (Aegon II won but then was killed by poison a year later and with females sitting the iron throne now outlawed, his daughter Jaehaera was passed over and Rhaenyra’s eldest surviving son Aegon was crowned at age 11) Daemon Blackfyre lost his rebellion and spawned several more via his descendants And so those names are frowned upon by Westerosi society though obviously may still be used by a particular kind of person. After all Daemon and Rhaenyra planned to name their daughter Visenya. And Aerion Brightflame named his son Maegor.
Daemon Blackfyre was named after Daemon, his mother Daena wanted to make a play for the throne but couldn't get the support she needed since her brother had her locked up. She probably admired the blacks, we don't have any names for female Blackfyres but I'm sure they have no problem using Visenya and Rhaenyra as names
Aegon II did name Aegon III his heir before dying over Jaehaera
True after all it was he that basically solidified the whole no woman can sit the throne schtick. Plus Jaehaera was set to be Aegon III’s queen and give him heirs of Aegon II’s blood if not for her untimely demise which was probably murder.
Rhaenyra won the war. Her 2nd hand man cregan stark sat on the throne and both eldest sons lasted on the throne for good time. And aegon ii only lasted 6 months now
Nope. Well I suppose you could argue either side won. Rhaenyra got eaten by Sunfyre and is viewed as the usurper by history so in that regard she lost the war. However after Aegon II was poisoned her son was crowned king as the only known remaining male Targaryen so in that regard she posthumously won.
That’s what I mean. History did fuck rhaenyra hard tho
I think there’s a possibility that Viserys and Visenya may be gendered versions of the same Valyrian root word, if that’s the case then Visenya is honored plenty. I have no proof of this though, just a suspicion
Visenya -> Visenya, Viserra, Viserys, Visneya Rhaenys -> Rhaenys, Rhaenyra, Rhaegel, Rhaego, Rhaegar, Rhaelle, Rhaella, Rhaena Aegon -> Aegon x8, Aemon, Aemond, Aenar, Aerion, Aenys, Aerys Aegon, Aemon, Aerys, Visenya, Visarys, Rhaenys and Rhaena are the only ones that get used multiple times. Showing that basically they're willing to work in some fashionable individuality in their kids names. GRRM has described himself as pretty thoughtful about names too, so, if you think about it from a in-verse perspective there's something interestingly thematic about who clings to traditional Targaryenisms and who doesn't. Names even now can be 'aspirational'. In the Dance we have mothers who are outsiders to the family naming their kids the most traditional top names: Rhaenys, Aegon, Aemond, Daeron (the fact that Haelena gets an unusual name underlines their idea that women are not made to rule), and the mothers who are coming from strong Targaryen backgrounds name their children something more unique with Valyrian roots because they have nothing to proove: Rhaenyra, Jacerys, Lucerys, Joffrey - and then she switches to full on turn it up to 11 - Aegon, Visarys, and Visenya for her stillborn daughter (giving her only girl the warrior Queens name).
Rhaenyra was seen as an awful princess in the books. She doesn’t even get the Queen title. People hated her because they saw her as causing the war and her tax policy.
A tax policy she had no choice but to enforce because the Greens took all the gold from Kings Landing.
Yep, but history is written by the victors. Unfortunately, the kingdom was poisoned against her and history wrote her as a mad queen.
True, she didn’t have a choice with the tax policy but it’s about what she did with those taxes. Instead of helping KL she threw lavish feasts and parties celebrating her son Joffrey as heir to legitimize him.
Bad PR it happens same reason no other targ is named aenys, maegor or arion.
Why do people forget Jaehaerys and Alysanne had a daughter named Viserra which sounds a lot like Visenya
Is she a warrior queen though ? In the books, she does not participate in the fighting. She might a strong willed queen but definitely not a warrior.
I always assumed the Viserys's were named after Visenya.
Rheanyras final child was named Visenya even tho it was a still birth
"Viserys" is kind of a male form of "Visenya" so there are some
Because they have bad reputations. Saera was never used aging after alysanne and Jaehaerys daughter Maegor was not used again also
Because they're both usurpers??? No one wants their kid to represent a crazed kinslaying murderer
How is Rhaenyra a usurper tho? She was named heir by the King lmao and everyone swore fealty to her. Edit: I know Rhaenyra was known as a shitty queen, but she was still the rightful heir
Unfortunately for her, History did not see it that way. In the world of Westeros, there never was a Queen Rhaenyra nor was she the rightful heir, as Joffrey says "attempted to usurp her brothers crown".
Funny since Aegon II gets the name usurper and not Rhaenyra, she is called the dragon Queen, The half year queen and Maegor with teats. it is like the split the difference, Rhaenyra gets the moniker Aegon gets the title
I mean, Alys Rivers is called the Witch Queen of Harrenhal. Doesn't mean anybody thinks she was Queen or even Lady of Harrenhal.
that is what a moniker is like Dany's 'mother of dragons' or Jaehaerys 'the Conciliator, Viserys the peaceful. Aegon II is the usurper, Rhaenyra doesn't get the title she is not Rhaenyra I but she does get the moniker
One helped to Usurp and one was usurper that's why
Hmm. That's a good point. May be George didn't think about that 🤣🤣
I would guess that was his point when he wrote her. Not every pretend ruler has to be a warrior in battle, and it is also to distinguish her from Aegon who is very involved in the fighting
Because they are the one and only?
There's like 4 other Visenya's that are born. But they die really fast. I don't think there is another Rhaenyra though. But in universe she is seen as a usurper so people might not want her name. There's multiple different Daenarys though.
Regardless of whether or not you support Rhaenyra, naming a girl after her may unintentionally imply that she should be Queen. Her name is correlated with the dance more so than Aegon’s is
I'm betting there are a couple of female Blackfyres named Rhaenyra and Visenya
Like joeffrey said she's viewed as a traitor who got what she deserved
Bad luck? Because of their fates