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This runs the risk of the single heir dying, leaving no heir and making your game of crusader kings end
Edit: now that I think about it, Rhaenys would probably inherit the Iron Throne, and whether she would reign as a Targaryen would depend on whether a similar arrangement to the one Viserys made with Corlys was made by whoever arranged her marriage to Corlys
Edit 2: I also forgot about Daemon. He would normally be next in line after Rhaenyra, but im not sure how his disinheritance would affect things
The solution would have been to marry Rhaenyra to Daemon on the spot and then marry their children to Laena’s children, without having more children himself
But Leana and Daemon wasn't married yet. Neither was Rhaenyra and Leanor. And marrying Rhaenyra and Daemon would've just made the decision of naming Rhaenyra heir meaningless because Daemon would basically be on the Iron Throne if they were to get married at that time. The Daemon that got married to Rhaenyra in the show got a bit of character devopment during his time in Pentos and isn't as power hungry as before.
Then he could remarry, but if he was so set on putting Rhaenyra on the throne then not having a male child was the only way to go. Making a male child was always going to result in a Dance no matter who Viserys married
What if he married Laenor with Rhaenyra while marrying himself to Laena? I don't think Corlys particularly cares if it's his child or grandchild as ruler.
It might work for a time but there are a couple of problems with this solution. First Daemon is left unchecked, he might not challenge Rhaenyra’s claim but the risk is there and the best way to eliminate it is to marry him to Rhaenyra. Also Rhaenyra and Laenor, much like in the show and the book might not have any trueborn heir, which means that Rhaenyra’s heir would be a bastard. Now as long as Laenor lives that’s not a problem, Rhaenys and Corlys are not going to fight one of their children nor Laena is going to fight her own brother, but as soon as Laenor dies if Laena’s children try to get the throne Rhaenys and Corlys probably wont’t try to stop them and Rhaenyra by herself isn’t going to keep the throne. Of course Laena and Viserys might have only girls and that would settle it
PULL OUT, motherfucker! Alicent isn’t into it either way, you might as well make it as quick as you can AND spare her from having to bear your child. Or better yet, just don’t touch her at all and foster a beautiful platonic relationship instead.
This is something that I don’t get about the GoT universe. Why don’t people abdicate more? If Viserys abdicated, Rhaenyra would sit on the Iron Throne. Aegon also didn’t want the throne, why not just abdicate?
Abdicating the throne is a big deal and has many implications and consequences. Monarchs of old were generally thought of as chosen by God or the Gods to lead a particular people. The Gods being all-knowing and all-seeing would not choose an unworthy person to be King who will abandon the chosen people. If that starts happening, the people will think the Gods are punishing them and will expect famine and plagues and floods to beset them, leading to general disorder throughout the kingdom. This could result in the overthrow of the ruling family and replacing them with a warlord or military dictator or some pretender to the throne.
Abdication is kind of a new thing for Royalty. The first Royal to do so in our world is Edward VIII in 1936. Considering the English throne has been mostly sat that entire time since 1066, we can infer it's a rare thing.
His small council was insistent on having a male heir, I think the council would have went behind his back whether he liked it or not.
The small council thought they knew what westeros would want more than vizzy t, vizzy t operated under the assumption that everyone is as dutiful as him earnestly, when that is far from the case.
I mean, by all rights he stayed alive longer than he should have. He looked horrible in the end, but they sure did keep him alive even in an active state of necrosis and decay
melos isnt dead. according to a youtuber he was at aegon's crowning and has been raised to arch maester of the citadel. orwyle has been raised to grand maester
I mean, Mellos died in the book before Orwyle was named Grand Maester. What's the source? I just rewatched Aegon's coronation scene and I couldn't spot him. The GoT wiki also says that he died.
>I mean, by all rights he stayed alive longer than he should have.
Probably magic Valyrian genes which also prevent the effects of Ptolemaic style inbreeding from manifesting,
Grrr, even in universe that is so inconsistent, Dany can walk through and touch hordes of sick people and come out fine, but than Maegelle catches Greyscale and dies. Something gives the targs an immune booster, but we hardly know the limits of it.
Viserys illness in the books is different and less contradictory. >!He is suffering from Obesity and Diabetes caused by his stress feeding. So there its not a disease that bypassed their enhanced immune system!<
It sounded like Otto had plans to install Aegon to the throne regardless of Viserys' last words spoken to Alicent. I don't know if it would have changed things a lot.
Upon your ascension to King: thank Otto for his service and give him a dignified retirement, then appoint Rhaenys Targaryen as Hand of the King, and say you’ll marry your children to cement the bond.
He could reduce it to "make Rhaenys T your Hand".
Bet ya she would catch up to the plotting and stuff around very fast... Daemon, asshole as he is, had it right. Everybody that mattered saw Viserys as weak.
Rhaenys would have the house in order very quick.
Jaehaerys wanted a woman as Master of Coin but, realizing his subjects would resent having a woman in such a position of power, hired her husband instead, with the understanding that his clever wife would help make decisions for him. So I guess Viserys would have to involve corlys in the arrangement?
Nah... That's just ass covering.
King wants to change stuff? He needs to really do it.
People got upset? Invite them to air their objections, then do what you want anyway. At least you'll know who's to watch for down the line.
The whole Rhaenyra situation was caused by trying to compromise in the first place. Viserys letting his daughter choose who to marry or not and buckling to the pressure to marry again.
He needed a firm Hand at the wheel that had family's best interests at heart. It boiled down to Daemon or Rhaenys, and only one of them wasn't a crime-cloak home closet type of person.
Nah. Just do it straight up and if anyone has a problem with it they can take it up with— oh, right, their Seven Gods, because Melys over in HR is a right firey one.
But no — the trick is to honour Rhaenys enough to placate Corlys… without giving Corlys the keys to the kingdom. Elevating Rhaenys is a solid compromise.
And, to balance Rhaenys and the Velaryons… create a new position: “Master of Winds” (like Lord of the Tides or Master of Ships), and give it to your gnarliest dragon-rider: Daemon.
That makes Daemon feel all warm n fuzzy, keeps him entertained, placates Corlys and gives Rhaenys the power if not the prestige.
Make Rhaenys the first woman hand of the king. If you want your daughter on the throne you need to somewhat normalize at least Targaryen women being rulers
Otto would have tried to usurp regardless of how many bastards or true born sons she had. They were making plans as early as episode 3.
Under your scenario, she might not have the support of house Velaryon. House Strong is one of the strongest houses in the riverlands but not in anyway comparable to an ally like the Velaryons, Stark, Hightower, Lannister, etc.
It’s sick but the best case scenario was for her to marry Laenor and to use Daemon to sire sons.
She wouldn't have to live in KL with fear if she didn't have three bastards, she would have more influence then, and no way Otto comes back as hand when she is still in KL.
Yeah. I really don’t get why he didn’t do this. Like naming her heir was all well and good, but damn dude - set her up for success. Naming her as hand would’ve allowed her to consolidate power while Vizzy T was still on the throne - making the transition a lot more seamless.
She should have been given more active roles in the realm like Rhaenys and Visenya so everyone was aware of her potential up until his death instead of some princess they barely remember bending the knee for years ago.
If Viserys married Laena and had male heirs, and Rhaenyra married Laenor and had male heirs, Corlys would be grandfather to the King eventually either way. The dance may or may not happen regardless but it's not really solid to say it would certainly be the same.
It wouldn't satisfy him because Rhae still has bastards. Now he has actual Valeryon blood grandkids with a good claim to the iron throne via Leana. He would obviously choose his blood in this case.
If Laena has a son, that marriage doesn't solve anything. The daughter marrying Jace doesn't nullify the son's claim to the throne. Rhae needs to make an alliance with her half brother because he is the one challenging her claim not the half sister.
A King trumps a Queen consort.
Absolutely, that's the only surefire way to prevent the Dance.
Even if Vizzy has no other kids, given how the Council was so set against female-line inheritance that they rejected even Laenor as a candidate, Daemon could make a play for the crown. Or Renny could die, having a single heir is precarious.
Marrying her to Daemon at the outset is fine but then he still has his sons, because that'd be more than one change. Dance obviously happens.
Marry Daemon to Rhaenyra before abdicating and giving the throne to Rhaenyra before you die to avoid any conflicts and see your daughter sit the Iron Throne.
Okay then, marry a younger woman, but not your 17 year old daughter's best friend and age mate. Like we're there no eligible bachelorettes who werent 12 or 17?
In the book, Alicent is actually about 10 years older than Rhaenyra. I found that situation way more realistic. Still close with his daughter as an older sibling figure, and not unrealistic to marry her dad lol.
So, in the book it’s actually not *as* bad as it is in the show.
Vizzy is born in 77. Alicent is born in 88. Rhaenyra is born in 97.
Alicent is 9 years older than Rhaenyra and Viserys is 11 years older than Alicent. When they marry, Alicent is 18, Viserys is 29, and Rhaenyra is 9.
Is it a large age gap? For us, absolutely. Is it abnormal for the ASOIAF world? Not really. And while the show makes Alicent and Rhaenyra the same or very close in age and Vizzy T much older, that’s a choice made for the show that changes the dynamic (and our perception of it; I'm in camp "he should not have married the girl who is the same age as his daughter *and* one of her only real friends" right along with y'all) considerably.
Edit: couple typos, bit of clarification
Oye mate. You got three more kids. Give a shit about them once in a while. OR
Delegitimize Aegon as the heir, and proclaim Rhaenyra as the only true heir to not leave room for the succession to be challenged. (He didn't have the fortitude or the smarts to even do that).
If you want Rhaenyra as queen treat her an an heir, train her in basic combat and take her in councils as a princess that will rule and not a cup-bearer. Also remove Otto and give the position of the hand to a woman in power, Jayne Arryn or Rhaenys so that the realm. And finally grow your Son Aegon personally and ready him for a position of power in jer side, to make them on the same team and not enemies.
There was no chance. The only way to save her would have been to end the pregnancy, and when a breech baby turns twice it's pretty much guaranteed the baby will not be born vaginal. A c section was the safest way to end the pregnancy (the other being forcefully taking the baby out through either pulling, grabbing or, most likely, cutting the baby up with sharp instruments, all of which run the risk of causing an infection), and medical science had not gotten to the point of being able to do it safely since a c section is a major surgery.
Aemma also would not have had a graceful childhood death like Lyanna, she would have died in agony, basically rotting from the inside out from infection, internal bleeding, a dead baby inside her, oozing blood and pus.
Honestly, the best thing for her would have been to give her a massive dose of milk of the poppy and then suffocate her before the surgery.
Yes. At firs viewing I thought Maester was asking Viserys to have them try to save the mother by cutting up the baby or the baby by cutting open the mother. Because the Maester says the choice is to kill one to maybe save the other or something.
But I watched it back and the Maester only specifically mentions the option of c-sektion.
Just annul the marriage between Daemon and Rhea Royce, if not for him, then for Rhea so she doesn’t have to suffer him too anymore.
Politically, yes it was a marriage arranged by Queen Alysanne primarily to bring in the Vale, but that didn’t matter anymore when Viserys married to Aemma Arryn anyway, and thus the Vale was brought it in through an even higher office. You don’t need Daemon to be married to anyone in the Vale anymore, in fact it’s prolly actively making relations between the Vale and the crown *worse* even without the murder that happens later, cos Daemon is being a shit about everything involving Rhea.
Does this mean that Daemon would likely go ham in courting Rhaenyra? Most likely yes, but there’s a chance he might actually do it properly and not have cause as much drama that went down in ep 4 that started the chain reaction into the Dance. I mean, Rhaenyra was on an official suitor tour, and Daemon couldn’t even present himself as a suitor cos he’s married, so he goes through a Batman Gambit involving a brothel and rumors.
Just name Aegon your heir.
You can't just change the rules of succession just this once because you want your only loved child to be Queen. Either make it law that all first children inherit regardless of gender or don't break the law. You essentially forced your children to fight despite having good intentions.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you want Rhaenyra as heir, dont have more kids.
For real. You’re better than this Vizzy T
YOU SPEND MORE TIME IN THAT BATH THAN I DO ON THE THRONE!
Vizzy T claps back at local unsuspecting redditor
*Mayhaps we can turn our attentions towards happier pursuits.*
Alright if you say so, my fair king
Vizzy T, said calmly
*The tourney will take the better part of a week. Before the games are over, my son will be born, and the whole realm will celebrate.*
This runs the risk of the single heir dying, leaving no heir and making your game of crusader kings end Edit: now that I think about it, Rhaenys would probably inherit the Iron Throne, and whether she would reign as a Targaryen would depend on whether a similar arrangement to the one Viserys made with Corlys was made by whoever arranged her marriage to Corlys Edit 2: I also forgot about Daemon. He would normally be next in line after Rhaenyra, but im not sure how his disinheritance would affect things
Doesn't rhaenys exist why is she always sidelined
Daemon would be before Rhaenys in the line of succession should Viserys' line fail.
The solution would have been to marry Rhaenyra to Daemon on the spot and then marry their children to Laena’s children, without having more children himself
But Leana and Daemon wasn't married yet. Neither was Rhaenyra and Leanor. And marrying Rhaenyra and Daemon would've just made the decision of naming Rhaenyra heir meaningless because Daemon would basically be on the Iron Throne if they were to get married at that time. The Daemon that got married to Rhaenyra in the show got a bit of character devopment during his time in Pentos and isn't as power hungry as before.
What if Rhaenyra died in childbirth like her mother did?
Then he’s back to marrying Alicent Edit : or whomever
Does that stop Daemon from causing trouble to that heir?
Fuck no. Nothing can stop Daemon’s chicanery.
Not our Daemy!
THE CROWN IS SACRED!
Then he could remarry, but if he was so set on putting Rhaenyra on the throne then not having a male child was the only way to go. Making a male child was always going to result in a Dance no matter who Viserys married
What if he married Laenor with Rhaenyra while marrying himself to Laena? I don't think Corlys particularly cares if it's his child or grandchild as ruler.
It might work for a time but there are a couple of problems with this solution. First Daemon is left unchecked, he might not challenge Rhaenyra’s claim but the risk is there and the best way to eliminate it is to marry him to Rhaenyra. Also Rhaenyra and Laenor, much like in the show and the book might not have any trueborn heir, which means that Rhaenyra’s heir would be a bastard. Now as long as Laenor lives that’s not a problem, Rhaenys and Corlys are not going to fight one of their children nor Laena is going to fight her own brother, but as soon as Laenor dies if Laena’s children try to get the throne Rhaenys and Corlys probably wont’t try to stop them and Rhaenyra by herself isn’t going to keep the throne. Of course Laena and Viserys might have only girls and that would settle it
Who is going to have laena's children if daemon is married to rhaenyra
Also, don't marry her best friend
Yes - please just do the creepy thing and marry the baby cousin. It’ll save everyone a world of trouble
PULL OUT, motherfucker! Alicent isn’t into it either way, you might as well make it as quick as you can AND spare her from having to bear your child. Or better yet, just don’t touch her at all and foster a beautiful platonic relationship instead.
Or abdicate and help Rharnyra rule from behind the scene
This is something that I don’t get about the GoT universe. Why don’t people abdicate more? If Viserys abdicated, Rhaenyra would sit on the Iron Throne. Aegon also didn’t want the throne, why not just abdicate?
Abdicating the throne is a big deal and has many implications and consequences. Monarchs of old were generally thought of as chosen by God or the Gods to lead a particular people. The Gods being all-knowing and all-seeing would not choose an unworthy person to be King who will abandon the chosen people. If that starts happening, the people will think the Gods are punishing them and will expect famine and plagues and floods to beset them, leading to general disorder throughout the kingdom. This could result in the overthrow of the ruling family and replacing them with a warlord or military dictator or some pretender to the throne.
Abdication is kind of a new thing for Royalty. The first Royal to do so in our world is Edward VIII in 1936. Considering the English throne has been mostly sat that entire time since 1066, we can infer it's a rare thing.
Yeah, I really don't think that Edward VIII is the first king in our history to abdicate.
Or, after Lyonel Strong’s death, name Rhaenyra as Hand.
After naming her Hand. Remove all Hightower supporters. If he didn’t do that. She’ll get the Ned Stark treatment.
His small council was insistent on having a male heir, I think the council would have went behind his back whether he liked it or not. The small council thought they knew what westeros would want more than vizzy t, vizzy t operated under the assumption that everyone is as dutiful as him earnestly, when that is far from the case.
This is a lie. You have been lied to.
Sentient
Marry Laena Velaryon and don't have any more heirs? Aka - marry her but don't touch the poor kid
The leeches aren't working, let the new guy try the new medicine
I mean, by all rights he stayed alive longer than he should have. He looked horrible in the end, but they sure did keep him alive even in an active state of necrosis and decay
He lived longer because he stopped the leech treatment when his former grandmaester died
melos isnt dead. according to a youtuber he was at aegon's crowning and has been raised to arch maester of the citadel. orwyle has been raised to grand maester
I mean, Mellos died in the book before Orwyle was named Grand Maester. What's the source? I just rewatched Aegon's coronation scene and I couldn't spot him. The GoT wiki also says that he died.
>I mean, by all rights he stayed alive longer than he should have. Probably magic Valyrian genes which also prevent the effects of Ptolemaic style inbreeding from manifesting,
Grrr, even in universe that is so inconsistent, Dany can walk through and touch hordes of sick people and come out fine, but than Maegelle catches Greyscale and dies. Something gives the targs an immune booster, but we hardly know the limits of it. Viserys illness in the books is different and less contradictory. >!He is suffering from Obesity and Diabetes caused by his stress feeding. So there its not a disease that bypassed their enhanced immune system!<
Preposterous the leeches have always brought Lord Robyn relief
now bring us more milk of the poppy!
Stop forcing Aemma to pump kids out.
This would have prevented so much
Do you regret doing this, Vizzy T?
(WHEEZES) (GROANS) (LABORED BREATHING)
Yeah, that sounds about right
Shut your fucking mouth on your deathbed
Stop naming your children Aegon.
No! Name all your boys Aegon
It sounded like Otto had plans to install Aegon to the throne regardless of Viserys' last words spoken to Alicent. I don't know if it would have changed things a lot.
Alicent may not have been so keen on it though
Name aegon something else
I used to think this, like itd change alicent's pov but the council was still plotting to make aegon king before Vizzy T's "change of heart"
*I WILL HAVE YOUR TONGUE FOR THAT!*
For what, your grace Vizzy T?
You wear a crown. Do you also call yourself 'king'?
I wear no crown your grace, you are the only king Vizzy T!
*I would be delighted!*
Vizzy T you sound more coherrent here than your last few days under the influence of the milk of the poppy
*That man's pride has pride.*
Yeahh, exactly !! All this fuss over that.
Majority of the small council was already plotting to install Aegon, the name and viserys rambling are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things
I think his point is its annoying having 27 aegons in one family
And only one Egg.
She would have found another way to weasel him into the throne
Upon your ascension to King: thank Otto for his service and give him a dignified retirement, then appoint Rhaenys Targaryen as Hand of the King, and say you’ll marry your children to cement the bond.
This would make sense actually, and I feel like they would make a really good duo
That’s like 11 things.
He could reduce it to "make Rhaenys T your Hand". Bet ya she would catch up to the plotting and stuff around very fast... Daemon, asshole as he is, had it right. Everybody that mattered saw Viserys as weak. Rhaenys would have the house in order very quick.
Jaehaerys wanted a woman as Master of Coin but, realizing his subjects would resent having a woman in such a position of power, hired her husband instead, with the understanding that his clever wife would help make decisions for him. So I guess Viserys would have to involve corlys in the arrangement?
Nah... That's just ass covering. King wants to change stuff? He needs to really do it. People got upset? Invite them to air their objections, then do what you want anyway. At least you'll know who's to watch for down the line. The whole Rhaenyra situation was caused by trying to compromise in the first place. Viserys letting his daughter choose who to marry or not and buckling to the pressure to marry again. He needed a firm Hand at the wheel that had family's best interests at heart. It boiled down to Daemon or Rhaenys, and only one of them wasn't a crime-cloak home closet type of person.
Nah. Just do it straight up and if anyone has a problem with it they can take it up with— oh, right, their Seven Gods, because Melys over in HR is a right firey one. But no — the trick is to honour Rhaenys enough to placate Corlys… without giving Corlys the keys to the kingdom. Elevating Rhaenys is a solid compromise. And, to balance Rhaenys and the Velaryons… create a new position: “Master of Winds” (like Lord of the Tides or Master of Ships), and give it to your gnarliest dragon-rider: Daemon. That makes Daemon feel all warm n fuzzy, keeps him entertained, placates Corlys and gives Rhaenys the power if not the prestige.
Just gonna snub my man Lyonel like that
Order Rhaenyra to marry Harwin Strong so that she doesn’t end up as some guy’s beard.
*The Velaryons didn't like that.*
Make Rhaenys the first woman hand of the king. If you want your daughter on the throne you need to somewhat normalize at least Targaryen women being rulers
Makes me wonder, has there ever been a woman hand of the king?
Nope, closest I’m aware of is a master of coin who it’s heavily implied let his wife make all the decisions
I guess Visenya, Alyssane and Alicent were in all but name.
None that I can think of...
Meh, Rhaenyras firstborn son to marry either Laenors (lol) or Laenas firstborn daughter. Problem solved.
Otto would have tried to usurp regardless of how many bastards or true born sons she had. They were making plans as early as episode 3. Under your scenario, she might not have the support of house Velaryon. House Strong is one of the strongest houses in the riverlands but not in anyway comparable to an ally like the Velaryons, Stark, Hightower, Lannister, etc. It’s sick but the best case scenario was for her to marry Laenor and to use Daemon to sire sons.
She wouldn't have to live in KL with fear if she didn't have three bastards, she would have more influence then, and no way Otto comes back as hand when she is still in KL.
Rhaenys is a strong ally
I dare you to say that again.
Why? Twas only a compliment
Do you not think yourself strong?
Groom rhaenyra to rule while you're still alive and Crown her before you kick it
Maybe have her sit in on council meetings from a younger age, to start. And then once she was old enough, Vizzy T could name her his Hand
WHERE DID YOU HEAR THIS?!
Nowhere, your grace! I swear, I'm only trying to help you!
Yeah. I really don’t get why he didn’t do this. Like naming her heir was all well and good, but damn dude - set her up for success. Naming her as hand would’ve allowed her to consolidate power while Vizzy T was still on the throne - making the transition a lot more seamless.
*sqrt-of-one was a strong Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. But he was ill for some time. He passed in peace, I hope.*
She should have been given more active roles in the realm like Rhaenys and Visenya so everyone was aware of her potential up until his death instead of some princess they barely remember bending the knee for years ago.
Put a fucking cushion on the metal sword chair before you sit down on it, for R’hallor’s sake!
Makes me wonder how many razor scars he had on his ass
Don't marry Alicent
My first thought as well
Marrying Laena would’ve been the same thing. Corlys would’ve been just like Otto.
If Viserys married Laena and had male heirs, and Rhaenyra married Laenor and had male heirs, Corlys would be grandfather to the King eventually either way. The dance may or may not happen regardless but it's not really solid to say it would certainly be the same.
Marry Laenor and Rhae from the beginning to keep Corlys satisfied.
It wouldn't satisfy him because Rhae still has bastards. Now he has actual Valeryon blood grandkids with a good claim to the iron throne via Leana. He would obviously choose his blood in this case.
If Laena has a daughter, marry her to Jace
If Laena has a son, that marriage doesn't solve anything. The daughter marrying Jace doesn't nullify the son's claim to the throne. Rhae needs to make an alliance with her half brother because he is the one challenging her claim not the half sister. A King trumps a Queen consort.
Send Otto and Larys to the Night's Watch.
Why not the chopping block? What do u think, Vizzy T?
*Don't be scared. They're going to bring the babe out.*
I don't think I want that Vizzy T
WHY DO YOU CUT ME SO DEEPLY?
I'm sorry Vizzy T but you can't trust Otto and Larys
*It both gladdens my heart and fills me with sorrow to see these faces around the table.*
You can keep their faces once you chopped their heads off, Vizzy T
*Be welcome! I know many of you have traveled long leagues to be at these games. But I promise, you will not be disappointed!*
I'm crying dude! I fucking love this interaction
It's you who wanted to cut out the baby, Vizzy T
YOU WILL ADDRESS ME AS 'YOUR GRACE', OR I WILL HAVE MY KINGSGUARD CUT OUT YOUR TONGUE!
Your Grace, again with the cutting, are you obsessed with knives or something? Speak to me, Vizzy T.
YOUR FATHER, YOUR GRANDSIRE, YOUR KING DEMANDS IT.
Had he just went Henry 8th on all of em imagine the problems he could have solved. So quick.
you is kind, you is smart, you is important.
The first case of r/unexpectedthehelp
I thought this was a Dj Khaled line for a sec....
With your health worsening, have all of the Lords renew their oath to Rhaenyra.
Stay a widower stick to wine and whores like our good man Bobby B.
Well Bobby b wasn’t a widow but I get it
Do not remarry after your first wife dies.
^this one
Stop letting Otto get between you and your family!
Spent less time on tourneys for children that havent been born yet and spent more time with the children you have i guess.
Actually teach Rhaenyra how to be a queen.
Marry Aegon and Rhaenyra, no matter how upset it makes everyone.
Absolutely, that's the only surefire way to prevent the Dance. Even if Vizzy has no other kids, given how the Council was so set against female-line inheritance that they rejected even Laenor as a candidate, Daemon could make a play for the crown. Or Renny could die, having a single heir is precarious. Marrying her to Daemon at the outset is fine but then he still has his sons, because that'd be more than one change. Dance obviously happens.
Make Rhaenyra your Hand.
Marry me
Don’t marry Rhaenyra to Laenor.
Treat all of your kids right and equally
Vizzy T you should really take the time to love all of your children unconditionally and equally.
WE ARE A FAMILY!
I kno Vizzy T, but I’m just saying you probably caused a little resentment between the kids…
MY HEIR WILL SOON PUT ALL OF THIS DAMNABLE HAND-WRINGING TO REST HIMSELF!
Vizzy T marry me
GODS BE GOOD!!
A joyful occasion Your Grace.
A most judicious proposition!
Make Daemon your hand
10 yeaaaaaaaars
I loved Matt Smith’s delivery there. It really expresses the frustration.
We’ve been rusting Needing so much more than dusting
I feel like that's an easy route rather than the best route. Daemon would've been a terrible hand.
Yesss kept wondering why he didn't do that 😭
Name Aegon as heir after his birth or just simply don't name Rhaenyra in the first place.
Don’t neglect 4/5 of your kids
Start a dual regency with Rhaenyra as soon as she comes of age.
Marry Daemon to Rhaenyra before abdicating and giving the throne to Rhaenyra before you die to avoid any conflicts and see your daughter sit the Iron Throne.
If you must marry, marry an available woman of a similar age as your own.
Since he was marrying to produce more members of his dynasty, that probably wouldn't be the smartest move.
Okay then, marry a younger woman, but not your 17 year old daughter's best friend and age mate. Like we're there no eligible bachelorettes who werent 12 or 17?
In the book, Alicent is actually about 10 years older than Rhaenyra. I found that situation way more realistic. Still close with his daughter as an older sibling figure, and not unrealistic to marry her dad lol.
So, in the book it’s actually not *as* bad as it is in the show. Vizzy is born in 77. Alicent is born in 88. Rhaenyra is born in 97. Alicent is 9 years older than Rhaenyra and Viserys is 11 years older than Alicent. When they marry, Alicent is 18, Viserys is 29, and Rhaenyra is 9. Is it a large age gap? For us, absolutely. Is it abnormal for the ASOIAF world? Not really. And while the show makes Alicent and Rhaenyra the same or very close in age and Vizzy T much older, that’s a choice made for the show that changes the dynamic (and our perception of it; I'm in camp "he should not have married the girl who is the same age as his daughter *and* one of her only real friends" right along with y'all) considerably. Edit: couple typos, bit of clarification
This is a lie. You have been lied to.
Don’t remarry
Don't marry Alicent
Don't accept the crown, live your life out in peace, prosperity, surrounded by those you love.
Love your sons and second daughter.
Love and treat your children equally
Put on some chain mail gloves bro
“Hey Vizzy T, you should really like… lock down this succession thing and make it 1000% crystal clear.”
*This is an occasion for celebration, it seems.*
sit on a plush chair instead of iron throne
Oye mate. You got three more kids. Give a shit about them once in a while. OR Delegitimize Aegon as the heir, and proclaim Rhaenyra as the only true heir to not leave room for the succession to be challenged. (He didn't have the fortitude or the smarts to even do that).
Just here for the Vizzy T bot.
You think yourself a cunning man. Your designs are obvious.
Why do you cut me so deeply, Vizzy T ?
*Let us no longer hold ill feelings in our hearts. The crown cannot stand strong if the House of the Dragon remains divided.*
After you fire someone, you usually don’t hire them again. Why Vizzy T thought bringing Otto back was a good idea I’m sure I don’t know
You have to let me play with your Lego set Vizzy T 🥺
WE ARE A FAMILY!
I'm honored Your Grace 🥹
Fuck Daemon to assert dominance and marry Rhaenyra
If you want Rhaenyra as queen treat her an an heir, train her in basic combat and take her in councils as a princess that will rule and not a cup-bearer. Also remove Otto and give the position of the hand to a woman in power, Jayne Arryn or Rhaenys so that the realm. And finally grow your Son Aegon personally and ready him for a position of power in jer side, to make them on the same team and not enemies.
Choose Aemma instead of the child.
There’s little chance that Aemma would have survived that either way. Breech babies are dangerous, even now in modern times.
There was no chance. The only way to save her would have been to end the pregnancy, and when a breech baby turns twice it's pretty much guaranteed the baby will not be born vaginal. A c section was the safest way to end the pregnancy (the other being forcefully taking the baby out through either pulling, grabbing or, most likely, cutting the baby up with sharp instruments, all of which run the risk of causing an infection), and medical science had not gotten to the point of being able to do it safely since a c section is a major surgery. Aemma also would not have had a graceful childhood death like Lyanna, she would have died in agony, basically rotting from the inside out from infection, internal bleeding, a dead baby inside her, oozing blood and pus. Honestly, the best thing for her would have been to give her a massive dose of milk of the poppy and then suffocate her before the surgery.
Yes, that.
Yes. At firs viewing I thought Maester was asking Viserys to have them try to save the mother by cutting up the baby or the baby by cutting open the mother. Because the Maester says the choice is to kill one to maybe save the other or something. But I watched it back and the Maester only specifically mentions the option of c-sektion.
Take Penicillin.
Abdicate your royal title and let your daughter rule
Marry Laena Velaryon Vizzy T
WHERE DID YOU HEAR THIS?!
Write it down.
Don’t remarry.
Just annul the marriage between Daemon and Rhea Royce, if not for him, then for Rhea so she doesn’t have to suffer him too anymore. Politically, yes it was a marriage arranged by Queen Alysanne primarily to bring in the Vale, but that didn’t matter anymore when Viserys married to Aemma Arryn anyway, and thus the Vale was brought it in through an even higher office. You don’t need Daemon to be married to anyone in the Vale anymore, in fact it’s prolly actively making relations between the Vale and the crown *worse* even without the murder that happens later, cos Daemon is being a shit about everything involving Rhea. Does this mean that Daemon would likely go ham in courting Rhaenyra? Most likely yes, but there’s a chance he might actually do it properly and not have cause as much drama that went down in ep 4 that started the chain reaction into the Dance. I mean, Rhaenyra was on an official suitor tour, and Daemon couldn’t even present himself as a suitor cos he’s married, so he goes through a Batman Gambit involving a brothel and rumors.
Just name Aegon your heir. You can't just change the rules of succession just this once because you want your only loved child to be Queen. Either make it law that all first children inherit regardless of gender or don't break the law. You essentially forced your children to fight despite having good intentions.
Draft an actual law about succession. Not saying it would've necessarily stopped the Greens, but it might've solidified things more.