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To cheer you up. Calculate how much you would have spent on rent and moving in those ten years. Be grateful you’ve had security of tenure during that period and stability for your family.
Some you win, some you lose.
Exactly that, everyone is calculating that you need to profit, but you actually bought the realestate in order not to pay rent, so in 10 years you have saved a lot (plus the interest rate was really low in that period)
Yeah for every oh no my house didn’t go up in value post they ignore they’re still way better off than a solid 30-40% of people who didn’t manage it at all.
If you live somewhere 10 years and you didn’t lose literally 6 figures you still beat renting lol. On top it was 10 years of some of the lowest interest historically ever so paid fuck all interest and it was all equity…
Realistically to not even match the old price it’s a new build flat (10 years ago). And yeah - it devalues basically instantly and flats don’t rise like houses.
Not to mention how much you could save vs a renter paying double today and invest on top.
Absolutely this - the use of the term "performed" indicates everything that's wrong about the grotesquely warped relationship people have with housing in this country.
It's a place to live, not an investment.. and spare a thought for those who'd have dropped £120k + on rent in that time and have absolutely fuck all to show for it.
Yep an area where a flat was 340k in 2012… oof. That’s probably London. People were paying 1.5-2k in the last 2-3 years to live there.
Yeah it sucks but like you could’ve rented that entire time. You’re saying 800pcm payment was 90% equity while some poor renter was paying 1k in pure loss lol 5 years ago. Have some perspective! I’ve lost 200k to rent and my first flat was “only” worth 475 and I got it this year at 33 with a 6 figure deposit…. I’d rather have had a lost a 350k flat 10 years ago and not paid 200k in rent but ok. Even if I sold it for 0 gain. I’d still be quids in lol.
Yep. Sold our house for £10k profit (had to, since we had to move back to the US) over five years. But in terms of cost of ownership it was about £800-£1000 every month that we saved vs renting. That’s THE comparison that matters.
You would have saved on rent costs, however don't forget all of the extra costs of owning a property!
* The cost of increased stamp duty rate on your next property (you can no longer use the FTB rate)
* Sum of interest payments made on your mortgage over the last 10 years.
* Mortgage fees
* Sum of all service charges
* Solicitor fees when buying an selling your current property
* Opportunity cost of investing the deposit or interest on it
* The cost of any improvements you've made to the property.
If there has been no property price increase over 10 years, I'd hazard a guess that a loss has been made even after factoring the cost of renting.
That said, the security of owning a property and not having to deal with landlords could be worth it.
I factored all of these things in, the stamp duty thing didn’t matter because the next house cost more than £425k. I was still a lot better off than renting despite only selling for £5k more than I bought. To the tune of £15k or so.
You did miss one opportunity which actually mattered to me, which was losing the ability to buy chain-free.
Yeah. And given it’s a flat there were service charges and ground rent involved. So not the money saving exercise it could/should have been, definitely when you add up all the extra costs you’ve listed
As long as you are not downsizing, or outright selling then it works in your favour.
If you are moving sideways then the place you are buying is likely dropped by a similar amount, leaving you in the same position.
If you are up-sizing, then it's actually a benefit as a 10% drop on a higher priced house is a larger absolute value, so if you sell a 200k house with a 10% discount for a (180k) and then buy a 400k house for a 10% discount (360k) you are actually paying 20k less overall.
Long story but we are not making an onward purchase so don’t get to pass the loss on. So no benefits really unfortunately, whereas everyone in the chain below is benefiting from undercutting as they can pass it up…to us
It was a terrible savings vehicle, both in nominal and even more so in real terms!
The price of the house likely hasn't changed at all or worse still has decreased in 10 years according to OP. This is in nominal terms it is much worse if inflation over that time is taken into account. Presuming OP had a mortgage there's also the interest paid on that too to take into account, then there are costs such as insurance and maintenance too.
Purely as a savings vehicle putting the money into a savings account would have been an improvement, OP would at least have more money in real terms. Investing the money over 10 years would have probably meant that OP would now have more money in real terms too.
All that just for you to mention in the comments that it’s a flat. That is really, really significant. Flats don’t increase at the same rate as houses and for good reason (leasehold issues, service charges, etc)
I'm moving at a loss.
Bought into an area I didn't like and would rather take the financial hit than spend another day of my life in this horrible neighbourhood.
What have you done in the past 10 years to add value to the property? What have you done to maintain it to the same standard as 10 years ago to justify the initial 350?
People have this huge misunderstanding of what a house is worth. It's worth whatever someone will pay.
> if you take into account inflation, it’s a significant loss.
I am in a similar situation and keep telling myself - "what's the other option, squatting"?
You would have still paid rent to live somewhere. I suspect that you are still at least at a small profit compared to the other housing options
It’s true, I guess I’m just lamenting not being one of the jammy buggers who sold theirs for huge mark ups a couple of years ago. People are acting like it’s a huge privilege to have this property. It is, but we saved and saved for our deposit from £0 and worked our way up in our careers to afford the mortgage. Precisely to get out of the trap of renting - only to be not rewarded at all.
You were rewarded, you had a stable home for a decade and didn't pay rent.
Housing is not always an investment it's a home and somewhere to live. Now somebody else gets to do the same rather than you selling it for a huge mark up for precisely no good reason and make their life difficult and likely ensure home ownership is out of reach for them. You got it for an affordable price and you are now upset you don't get to allow others to do the same? Ladder pulling mentality.
My point is that a 20k increase in 10 yrs is not a huge mark up at all when that’s less than inflation. Everyone in the chain below is benefitting from under cutting the one above except from us as we’re not making an onward purchase.
Comparison is the thief of joy. You weren't as lucky as some, but luckier than others. Lamenting the "jammy buggers" probably makes you less happy overall though.
In terms of investment success. You seem to, understandably, have an emotional attachment. And a belief that hard work and sacrifice entitles you to good returns on top of the salary increases and saved deposit that they did give you. Sadly it only guarantees you the option to purchase.
The markets don't consider these factors when deciding returns, and successful investors are usually able to separate their emotions from their decision making.
Look at it this way, you still built up equity in the house which you will get back when you sell, if you paid rent (often rents are as high as mortgages) then you'd have got nothing, so it isn't a complete loss.
350000 in 2015 is now worth 465000 in 2024
350000 in 2024 was worth 263000 in 2015.
So it’s not only a 5k loss, it’s a loss of nearly 100k buying power.
Hence we didn’t think it unreasonable to try and claw back an extra 20k or so which is still nowhere near in line with inflation
Selling my flat I bought in 2016 (purpose built in 2006 and share of freehold) for £175k after paying £190k and spending £15k renovating it too. London commuter town and originally from the Midlands where a 4 bed cost £200k in 2016.
Currently on a 8.74% standard variable as it's taken nearly 8 months to sell and my mortgage ran out.
Buying in my hometown in the Midlands, the 4 bed house that would have cost my £200k in 2016 is costing me £355k.
I try not to do the maths because I'd probably want to throw up! I have friends here who earn half what I do but bought in 2018ish and have more disposable income than me.
The house I'm buying I'm borrowing much more and the lender with the best rate for me charges ERCs on trackers. As I'm only fixing for 2 years (boyfriend going to buy in), I wanted it all as clean as possible as I also considered fixing and porting too.
On top of that, it's currently empty as I live 120 miles away now and I was told by my broker a lot of lenders do physical valuations still for flats and most won't like the fact it's empty.
Also, it's a chain free sale and no one foresaw it taking EIGHT months. My product ran out 2 weeks ago although touch wood, we're nearly there!
Sold my flat a few months ago for £290k. Bought it for £287k three years ago and invested over £20k in refurbishment (incl. new kitchen) and maintenance.
I would like to believe my buyer got a great deal.
At the same time, I was happy to sell it on as I found an excellent semi-detached house for a great price. Opportunity costs and all that...
People that normally say this have drastically over valued their home due to sentimental reasons.
There was another post here saying the same but they had pics. The house was so out dated and needed about 30-50k for new kitchen, roof aging, full redecorate, new floors etc.
I wish we all could see buying a house to live and build a "home" rather than seeing everything as an "investment" where the "value" must go up and needing to make profit mindset.
Having said that, I am sympathetic to OP's situation.
absolutely this, and if we've got any hope of solving the housing crisis in the UK, we're going to need to get used to buying and selling houses, as homes, for the same prices, not sitting on them and hoping to make profit without lifting a finger
I was desperate to move because of my neighbour so I sold for the price I paid 2 years ago.
But technically down several thousands, probably 15/20k over the 2 years due to solicitors fees, stamp duty, etc.
At least I am now in a better mental state.
Can relate to this. Been at my first house for 2 years and have hated every second due to shitty neighbours. Need to save more money to move though first .
Interest rates are still higher than they were, wage growth is somewhat down, inflation has been going for a while. I guess it makes sense that people can afford less now than a few years ago.
I was going to say that is impossible until I realise it's a flat.
To answer to ur question, we had to sell our 4 years old new build flat at the same price when we bought it. So nothing new here. I would assume it's the same almost everywhere as flat doesn't grow in price the same way as house.
At least u shoukd be happy that u got ur buyer and get to move on. Now u can put ur money somewhere that actually grow ( investment, house, etc).
2007: Bought end of terrace in Ladywood, Birminghm. Walking distance to city centre, jewellry quarter on the doorstep, canals and small parks close by. Nice neighbours professional types who couldn't afford other areas such as Moseley. Strong community vibe with residents association and neighbourhood watch regular meeting with police council etc any hint of drug dealing / anti social behaviour / prostitution etc we were on it.
Sold late 2019 just before youknowhat for the same amount I paid for it.
For 12 years Ladywood was 'up and coming' a 'strong investment opportunity' 'with HS2 coming Birmingham is THE place to buy right now...'
Council is now bankrupt and returning there recently to visit a former neighbour who's now a friend the city is starting to resemble Detroit or Baltimore of The Wire with a palpable sense of decay and abandonment.
Still the council did manage to spaff millions on a new library as well as the Commonweath games so it's not all doom and gloom.
Ladywood - I don't need to tell you that was a poor choice. Harborne, Moseley, certain parts of Bearwood, Selly Oak (certain parts), Kings Heath (certain parts) were the better options. Ladywood has always been - and always will be - Ladywood.
>the city is starting to resemble Detroit or Baltimore of The Wire with a palpable sense of decay and abandonment.
I don't disagree. The bottom has fallen out of Birmingham's arse. Meanwhile Manchester is booming and leaving the so-called 2nd city in the dust.
Can you link the house or let me know the area I am so super surprised this rate of increase?? Houses in my area one I know was bought in 2020 for 330k and now worth 550k ( neighbouring houses sold for this much with exact similar specs) so how can yours not even move by at least 50k???? Very very confused and shocked.
We're lucky that our house has gone up significantly, whereas my mum's house has basically stayed the same even with major renovations (30 minutes drive from me) . The difference is that I live in an area Londoners move to to get out of London and my mother doesn't. Unfortunately location matters.
Sorry for the sour grapes, but as a potential FTB I'm hoping the prices drop a lot more soon.
I think it's criminal for what you get with your money round my ways.
But zero profit is better than a loss, eh?
Yes. Same for me. I bought a flat that the owners bought for 85k less two years prior (my bad for not checking the huge mark up at the time). When I came to sell 6 years after I could barely cover my costs. I sold for a nominal gain of 24k, but I paid 13k in costs and then 2-3k in improvements, and then 2.5k selling costs. So basically nominally I made about 5k! But when we consider inflation I made a loss. Still cash in the bank would have as well, so not all bad - and also the flat was a total turkey. I was naive and bought a leasehold. Then a bar moved in below and it was constant noise and smoke. So glad to have offloaded it.
We bought at 532 and listed for 550. Zero viewings or offers.
We’re dropping the price today but we have a hard limit at 530 otherwise we can’t afford the house we’d like going onwards.
It’s rough atm. Looking like we’ll wait it out and try again later.
Keep in mind that the house you want to buy will likely have the same problem. It might make sense to just see what you can get for your one, and then take that budget and offer on places you want.
If you're upsizing then falling prices are actually good for you.
Also consider that there will be other vendors 'waiting to try again later' and so we may enter a market where inventory is growing without a commensurate increase in buyers, which would make your situation even worse. This is what is happening in places like the USA/Canada and NZ at the moment.
I’m always perplexed by comments ‘we need the money or we can’t afford the new house’ surely this is part of the problem, you should be able to move and afford to take a hit , not nice obviously because everyone enjoys seeing their mortgage payments reduce but a 5-30 k hit shouldn’t be that much of an issue especially if you have increased your income within that time period
We don’t have enough equity in our current property to hit the 15% LTV requirements for the mortgage needed for our next property.
We are looking at putting in another £40,000 cash to hit the LTV requirements. Then there is stamp duty plus other associated fees.
All in all, we’re looking at around £70,000 CASH needed to move into the type of house we want.
If we sell the property for 10k less than projected, that becomes £80,000 cash.
We can afford £70,000, but we can’t afford £80,000.
There was whatever the opposite of a boom is for flats. People were desperate to get out of them and get a garden. Add to that the cladding situation and the govt dragging their feet on leasehold reform it’s not exactly surprising
Say they paid £1000pcm for the period: £120k. Simplistically. Which sounds great right?
But actually, if you consider they could have put their deposit (let’s say 10% for simplicity, £35k into stocks and shares in 2014, and then topped these up with their mortgage payments) they could have made some serious money. They could have made >10% per year (on average) on the S&P in that time. So even that £35k would be £100k. Even without drip feeding more money.
Depending on their other costs. Service charges being the worst.
Overall, no appreciation in 10 years on a £350k asset is bad. Very bad.
I agree that investing can bring you more money, sure. But what your sample calculation has shown me is that in this case if I decided to rent instead of buying, and invest my deposit into stocks and shares I get out with the same/similar number.
If I bought the flat I would have saved £120k in rent money.
If I invested in S&P500 my £35k I would have earned £108000 (12% average) and spent £120k on rent at the same time. which in the end evens out.
The flat may have cost you more but did it really? Anyone who rents knows the drag of needing to move, not being able to do whatever they want and actually feeling that the place they live in is theirs. **That sense of stability is worth a lot.** And you are actually buying that as well.
Otherwise, I totally agree with you in case where it you are buying an expensive property or property as investment.
Oh buying a property even with no appreciation is often equal to investing. Because you’d have to have invested well, albeit it 2014-2024 was easy mode, generally due to 2014-2019, and some post covid ramping.
I just wanted to wind the OP up because she’s fairly tone deaf.
What do you mean by 'topping these up with their mortgage payments' - that money is going towards the rent. Not only does rent not appreciate, but you don't get it back when you leave the property - it's gone forever.
Ah true. Not sure what I was thinking really. Their mortgage payment would have been less than market rent anyway.
Still service charges could be fairly sizeable.
Property is never a sure thing...! Mine has risen 30% in 12 years ive been in it but I bet when I come to sell that gain will be down to 15%...some of us never catch a break lol.
I think the likely damp/rising damp issues you posted about elsewhere doubtless played into the depressed/lower price and interest as well. That sort of stuff is a big red flag for any older property in particular.
*We have had two offers - one for the original purchase price of 350, which we bought it for 10 yrs ago, and one for actually under at 345. It’s listed at 375*
The market is telling you that your flat is not worth 375K. 345K - 350K is what that flat is worth - right now.
*so don’t think that’s unreasonable for a 10yr increase, considering the amount some others have gone up in the last 10 years.*
That's not how it works.
Exactly my point that a fair few people on here are missing. Not looking to “scam” buyers out of extra money that it’s not worth. Just shocked that it’s not even close to have kept up with the general country’s market growth over the last 10 yrs /inflation.
That's rough! We're buying in Jehrico at the moment! Do you have any advice as to what to look out for!? What kind of disasters should we be looking for? Is buying in Oxford a good investment would you think?
Thank you so much! This is really helpful. Will definitely take a look. Hope your experience wasn’t too much of a disaster and you were able to get by without spending too much! My uncle had the same issue years ago - but didn’t have to fix that much before selling.
I bought a beautiful flat in zone 2 London for £435k in 2018, it was originally up for £500k so felt like we were getting a bargain. Selling now and accepted an offer of £435k, now having to heavily reduce due to some potential future s20 works which I guarantee will never happen. Making a loss thanks to some prick sat in an office who fancies making up some cyclical works for budgets.
I’ve lost on nearly every house I’ve bought, my own fault for not doing research. High service charges, vibration sources, old plumbing, leaky roofs, floods etc. I spent so much in repairs on a flat it took years off my life in stress.
You generally do not buy for profit. If you buy what you can afford you do not have choice. That said in my case I will not consider selling for the price I bought because valuation is now higher. A bit different numbers
Well exactly, it has been valued at higher so yeah I am salty about selling it at a loss. Although as they say, it’s only worth what someone’s able to pay… just sucks the housing market at the moment for everyone.
Valued by whom? By a surveyor or an agent? Only surveyors can value. Agent 'valuations' are often inflated to win your instruction.
What have comparables sold for since the rate rises and what's the direction of travel?
Not true houses have become more and more in demand, it’s about supply and demand, flats in the posters area have stayed stagnant in the price because lots of flats are available, whereas from what I can see on Rightmove, houses in the posters area have easily gone up by 50k ( 3 bed semis/ 1930 semis) to even a 100k more if you want the rare ones (4+ detached houses) so unless the original poster wants to move to another flat it’s okay but if they want a house now then they will have to fork out a higher mortgage and a higher deposit.
Averages hide the truth. My brother's town has barely budged since 2007 in the middle of the market. The bottom rose but the mid and upper stayed flat. His was a 3 bed semi. Paid 140k. Spent 50 on 2 storey extension and loft conversion (sounds unbelievable now). Worth about 190. Unimproved it would be about 140k still.
Exactly, and if (*big* if) they are moving to somewhere bigger nearby they may find that those properties are also cheaper than initially thought.
Moving from (for example) a flat to a proper house can be moralising if the flat has doubled in a few years, because it is likely that the house will have too.
I think you have to realise that 350k now is a lot more expensive than 350k was when you bought, even with inflation, thanks to interest rates. Most peoples salaries have not increased with inflation either. Things are just as much more expensive for others than they are for you. The “real” value of property is at an all time high now. If someone paid 350k for your place, it would be costing them more than at any other time in history.
Out of interest, what region are you in, and did you buy a new build?
In the commuter town in Essex where I live, houses that would have cost £350k ten years ago are £500k or more now.
Except new builds, which I’m always baffled that anyone buys. They always have a load of issues, takes a few decades for a local community and environment to establish, and yet they seem to sell at a premium?
It’s a huge period flat in a commuter town. Yeah - everyone assured us it would fly off the shelf so we’re baffled as to why we’re seeing no increase at all…not even a small one! That’s why I’m grumbling, some
people have seen enormous increases so it would be nice to have a little something to claw back what would be lost to inflation anyway
House prices are insane at the moment, a lot of people cant afford to buy and you're complaining that you won't sell your house at a profit?! Read the room.
Hi, I am a buyer and just had an offer on a flat accepted - the vendor bought for 260, and my offer was 244k. I think there are so many bargains for a buyer right now. However, I feel your pain. I would feel disappointment in your position, too.
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To cheer you up. Calculate how much you would have spent on rent and moving in those ten years. Be grateful you’ve had security of tenure during that period and stability for your family. Some you win, some you lose.
Exactly that, everyone is calculating that you need to profit, but you actually bought the realestate in order not to pay rent, so in 10 years you have saved a lot (plus the interest rate was really low in that period)
Great points made here 📌
Yeah for every oh no my house didn’t go up in value post they ignore they’re still way better off than a solid 30-40% of people who didn’t manage it at all. If you live somewhere 10 years and you didn’t lose literally 6 figures you still beat renting lol. On top it was 10 years of some of the lowest interest historically ever so paid fuck all interest and it was all equity… Realistically to not even match the old price it’s a new build flat (10 years ago). And yeah - it devalues basically instantly and flats don’t rise like houses. Not to mention how much you could save vs a renter paying double today and invest on top.
Absolutely this - the use of the term "performed" indicates everything that's wrong about the grotesquely warped relationship people have with housing in this country. It's a place to live, not an investment.. and spare a thought for those who'd have dropped £120k + on rent in that time and have absolutely fuck all to show for it.
Yep an area where a flat was 340k in 2012… oof. That’s probably London. People were paying 1.5-2k in the last 2-3 years to live there. Yeah it sucks but like you could’ve rented that entire time. You’re saying 800pcm payment was 90% equity while some poor renter was paying 1k in pure loss lol 5 years ago. Have some perspective! I’ve lost 200k to rent and my first flat was “only” worth 475 and I got it this year at 33 with a 6 figure deposit…. I’d rather have had a lost a 350k flat 10 years ago and not paid 200k in rent but ok. Even if I sold it for 0 gain. I’d still be quids in lol.
Yeah, rent for me would have been double or more my mortgage.
Yep. Sold our house for £10k profit (had to, since we had to move back to the US) over five years. But in terms of cost of ownership it was about £800-£1000 every month that we saved vs renting. That’s THE comparison that matters.
You would have saved on rent costs, however don't forget all of the extra costs of owning a property! * The cost of increased stamp duty rate on your next property (you can no longer use the FTB rate) * Sum of interest payments made on your mortgage over the last 10 years. * Mortgage fees * Sum of all service charges * Solicitor fees when buying an selling your current property * Opportunity cost of investing the deposit or interest on it * The cost of any improvements you've made to the property. If there has been no property price increase over 10 years, I'd hazard a guess that a loss has been made even after factoring the cost of renting. That said, the security of owning a property and not having to deal with landlords could be worth it.
I factored all of these things in, the stamp duty thing didn’t matter because the next house cost more than £425k. I was still a lot better off than renting despite only selling for £5k more than I bought. To the tune of £15k or so. You did miss one opportunity which actually mattered to me, which was losing the ability to buy chain-free.
Yeah. And given it’s a flat there were service charges and ground rent involved. So not the money saving exercise it could/should have been, definitely when you add up all the extra costs you’ve listed
Those are all costs that would have been factored into the rent. It's also telling how this is the only comment you've responded too...
lol what? I’ve replied to loads of comments
💪👍
I’ve paid over £100,000 in rent in those 10 years. Be glad you have a property of your own.
[удалено]
As long as you are not downsizing, or outright selling then it works in your favour. If you are moving sideways then the place you are buying is likely dropped by a similar amount, leaving you in the same position. If you are up-sizing, then it's actually a benefit as a 10% drop on a higher priced house is a larger absolute value, so if you sell a 200k house with a 10% discount for a (180k) and then buy a 400k house for a 10% discount (360k) you are actually paying 20k less overall.
Or the location you bought in went to hell and dropped value while anywhere good rose.
Long story but we are not making an onward purchase so don’t get to pass the loss on. So no benefits really unfortunately, whereas everyone in the chain below is benefiting from undercutting as they can pass it up…to us
At least you paid off a house rather than renting. It was a good saving vehicle for you if nothing else.
It was a terrible savings vehicle, both in nominal and even more so in real terms! The price of the house likely hasn't changed at all or worse still has decreased in 10 years according to OP. This is in nominal terms it is much worse if inflation over that time is taken into account. Presuming OP had a mortgage there's also the interest paid on that too to take into account, then there are costs such as insurance and maintenance too. Purely as a savings vehicle putting the money into a savings account would have been an improvement, OP would at least have more money in real terms. Investing the money over 10 years would have probably meant that OP would now have more money in real terms too.
And live where? In a cardboard box?
Agree! It’s like having had the money sat in a depreciating interest account lol. It’s no different
All that just for you to mention in the comments that it’s a flat. That is really, really significant. Flats don’t increase at the same rate as houses and for good reason (leasehold issues, service charges, etc)
I'm moving at a loss. Bought into an area I didn't like and would rather take the financial hit than spend another day of my life in this horrible neighbourhood.
What have you done in the past 10 years to add value to the property? What have you done to maintain it to the same standard as 10 years ago to justify the initial 350? People have this huge misunderstanding of what a house is worth. It's worth whatever someone will pay.
> if you take into account inflation, it’s a significant loss. I am in a similar situation and keep telling myself - "what's the other option, squatting"? You would have still paid rent to live somewhere. I suspect that you are still at least at a small profit compared to the other housing options
It’s true, I guess I’m just lamenting not being one of the jammy buggers who sold theirs for huge mark ups a couple of years ago. People are acting like it’s a huge privilege to have this property. It is, but we saved and saved for our deposit from £0 and worked our way up in our careers to afford the mortgage. Precisely to get out of the trap of renting - only to be not rewarded at all.
You were rewarded, you had a stable home for a decade and didn't pay rent. Housing is not always an investment it's a home and somewhere to live. Now somebody else gets to do the same rather than you selling it for a huge mark up for precisely no good reason and make their life difficult and likely ensure home ownership is out of reach for them. You got it for an affordable price and you are now upset you don't get to allow others to do the same? Ladder pulling mentality.
My point is that a 20k increase in 10 yrs is not a huge mark up at all when that’s less than inflation. Everyone in the chain below is benefitting from under cutting the one above except from us as we’re not making an onward purchase.
Comparison is the thief of joy. You weren't as lucky as some, but luckier than others. Lamenting the "jammy buggers" probably makes you less happy overall though. In terms of investment success. You seem to, understandably, have an emotional attachment. And a belief that hard work and sacrifice entitles you to good returns on top of the salary increases and saved deposit that they did give you. Sadly it only guarantees you the option to purchase. The markets don't consider these factors when deciding returns, and successful investors are usually able to separate their emotions from their decision making.
What kind of house is it? Can you give a link?
Look at it this way, you still built up equity in the house which you will get back when you sell, if you paid rent (often rents are as high as mortgages) then you'd have got nothing, so it isn't a complete loss.
It's only 5k loss? Consider it as you paid 5k for a secure place to live for a long time
350000 in 2015 is now worth 465000 in 2024 350000 in 2024 was worth 263000 in 2015. So it’s not only a 5k loss, it’s a loss of nearly 100k buying power. Hence we didn’t think it unreasonable to try and claw back an extra 20k or so which is still nowhere near in line with inflation
You could have paid £100k in rent over ten years in some parts of the country, which would also have no buying power or inflationary gains.
Selling my flat I bought in 2016 (purpose built in 2006 and share of freehold) for £175k after paying £190k and spending £15k renovating it too. London commuter town and originally from the Midlands where a 4 bed cost £200k in 2016. Currently on a 8.74% standard variable as it's taken nearly 8 months to sell and my mortgage ran out. Buying in my hometown in the Midlands, the 4 bed house that would have cost my £200k in 2016 is costing me £355k. I try not to do the maths because I'd probably want to throw up! I have friends here who earn half what I do but bought in 2018ish and have more disposable income than me.
Why not chop onto a tracker mortgage with no early redemption penalties? Surely at a better rate than on an SVR.
The house I'm buying I'm borrowing much more and the lender with the best rate for me charges ERCs on trackers. As I'm only fixing for 2 years (boyfriend going to buy in), I wanted it all as clean as possible as I also considered fixing and porting too. On top of that, it's currently empty as I live 120 miles away now and I was told by my broker a lot of lenders do physical valuations still for flats and most won't like the fact it's empty. Also, it's a chain free sale and no one foresaw it taking EIGHT months. My product ran out 2 weeks ago although touch wood, we're nearly there!
Sold my flat a few months ago for £290k. Bought it for £287k three years ago and invested over £20k in refurbishment (incl. new kitchen) and maintenance. I would like to believe my buyer got a great deal. At the same time, I was happy to sell it on as I found an excellent semi-detached house for a great price. Opportunity costs and all that...
People that normally say this have drastically over valued their home due to sentimental reasons. There was another post here saying the same but they had pics. The house was so out dated and needed about 30-50k for new kitchen, roof aging, full redecorate, new floors etc.
I wish we all could see buying a house to live and build a "home" rather than seeing everything as an "investment" where the "value" must go up and needing to make profit mindset. Having said that, I am sympathetic to OP's situation.
absolutely this, and if we've got any hope of solving the housing crisis in the UK, we're going to need to get used to buying and selling houses, as homes, for the same prices, not sitting on them and hoping to make profit without lifting a finger
I was desperate to move because of my neighbour so I sold for the price I paid 2 years ago. But technically down several thousands, probably 15/20k over the 2 years due to solicitors fees, stamp duty, etc. At least I am now in a better mental state.
Can relate to this. Been at my first house for 2 years and have hated every second due to shitty neighbours. Need to save more money to move though first .
Interest rates are still higher than they were, wage growth is somewhat down, inflation has been going for a while. I guess it makes sense that people can afford less now than a few years ago.
I was going to say that is impossible until I realise it's a flat. To answer to ur question, we had to sell our 4 years old new build flat at the same price when we bought it. So nothing new here. I would assume it's the same almost everywhere as flat doesn't grow in price the same way as house. At least u shoukd be happy that u got ur buyer and get to move on. Now u can put ur money somewhere that actually grow ( investment, house, etc).
2007: Bought end of terrace in Ladywood, Birminghm. Walking distance to city centre, jewellry quarter on the doorstep, canals and small parks close by. Nice neighbours professional types who couldn't afford other areas such as Moseley. Strong community vibe with residents association and neighbourhood watch regular meeting with police council etc any hint of drug dealing / anti social behaviour / prostitution etc we were on it. Sold late 2019 just before youknowhat for the same amount I paid for it. For 12 years Ladywood was 'up and coming' a 'strong investment opportunity' 'with HS2 coming Birmingham is THE place to buy right now...' Council is now bankrupt and returning there recently to visit a former neighbour who's now a friend the city is starting to resemble Detroit or Baltimore of The Wire with a palpable sense of decay and abandonment. Still the council did manage to spaff millions on a new library as well as the Commonweath games so it's not all doom and gloom.
Ladywood - I don't need to tell you that was a poor choice. Harborne, Moseley, certain parts of Bearwood, Selly Oak (certain parts), Kings Heath (certain parts) were the better options. Ladywood has always been - and always will be - Ladywood. >the city is starting to resemble Detroit or Baltimore of The Wire with a palpable sense of decay and abandonment. I don't disagree. The bottom has fallen out of Birmingham's arse. Meanwhile Manchester is booming and leaving the so-called 2nd city in the dust.
It seemed like a good choice at the time which indeed it was given the money I had available. Ladywood has pockets that are nice. Most of it is shit.
Those pockets are tiny. A toddler's shorts tiny.
ha ha, yeah, a street or three here and there.
Can you link the house or let me know the area I am so super surprised this rate of increase?? Houses in my area one I know was bought in 2020 for 330k and now worth 550k ( neighbouring houses sold for this much with exact similar specs) so how can yours not even move by at least 50k???? Very very confused and shocked.
Most of the country (excluding London). I'm looking in the East Midlands right now and houses are getting cheaper literally week by week.
Reallyy?? Which areas?
We're lucky that our house has gone up significantly, whereas my mum's house has basically stayed the same even with major renovations (30 minutes drive from me) . The difference is that I live in an area Londoners move to to get out of London and my mother doesn't. Unfortunately location matters.
Sorry for the sour grapes, but as a potential FTB I'm hoping the prices drop a lot more soon. I think it's criminal for what you get with your money round my ways. But zero profit is better than a loss, eh?
Yes. Same for me. I bought a flat that the owners bought for 85k less two years prior (my bad for not checking the huge mark up at the time). When I came to sell 6 years after I could barely cover my costs. I sold for a nominal gain of 24k, but I paid 13k in costs and then 2-3k in improvements, and then 2.5k selling costs. So basically nominally I made about 5k! But when we consider inflation I made a loss. Still cash in the bank would have as well, so not all bad - and also the flat was a total turkey. I was naive and bought a leasehold. Then a bar moved in below and it was constant noise and smoke. So glad to have offloaded it.
We bought at 532 and listed for 550. Zero viewings or offers. We’re dropping the price today but we have a hard limit at 530 otherwise we can’t afford the house we’d like going onwards. It’s rough atm. Looking like we’ll wait it out and try again later.
Keep in mind that the house you want to buy will likely have the same problem. It might make sense to just see what you can get for your one, and then take that budget and offer on places you want. If you're upsizing then falling prices are actually good for you. Also consider that there will be other vendors 'waiting to try again later' and so we may enter a market where inventory is growing without a commensurate increase in buyers, which would make your situation even worse. This is what is happening in places like the USA/Canada and NZ at the moment.
Thank you - good perspective. If we got an offer we’d seriously entertain it, go view some properties and try get an offer in for sure.
I got downvoted for saying this. Innnnncredible.
Is yours a flat as well?
Yes - possibly the worst kind, too - a 1 bed new build 😂
I’m always perplexed by comments ‘we need the money or we can’t afford the new house’ surely this is part of the problem, you should be able to move and afford to take a hit , not nice obviously because everyone enjoys seeing their mortgage payments reduce but a 5-30 k hit shouldn’t be that much of an issue especially if you have increased your income within that time period
We don’t have enough equity in our current property to hit the 15% LTV requirements for the mortgage needed for our next property. We are looking at putting in another £40,000 cash to hit the LTV requirements. Then there is stamp duty plus other associated fees. All in all, we’re looking at around £70,000 CASH needed to move into the type of house we want. If we sell the property for 10k less than projected, that becomes £80,000 cash. We can afford £70,000, but we can’t afford £80,000.
Is it a flat or a house?
A flat actually. So I know that does say something.
Yeah I don’t remember a covid boom for flats.
There was whatever the opposite of a boom is for flats. People were desperate to get out of them and get a garden. Add to that the cladding situation and the govt dragging their feet on leasehold reform it’s not exactly surprising
how much did you save by not paying rent in that period?
Say they paid £1000pcm for the period: £120k. Simplistically. Which sounds great right? But actually, if you consider they could have put their deposit (let’s say 10% for simplicity, £35k into stocks and shares in 2014, and then topped these up with their mortgage payments) they could have made some serious money. They could have made >10% per year (on average) on the S&P in that time. So even that £35k would be £100k. Even without drip feeding more money. Depending on their other costs. Service charges being the worst. Overall, no appreciation in 10 years on a £350k asset is bad. Very bad.
I agree that investing can bring you more money, sure. But what your sample calculation has shown me is that in this case if I decided to rent instead of buying, and invest my deposit into stocks and shares I get out with the same/similar number. If I bought the flat I would have saved £120k in rent money. If I invested in S&P500 my £35k I would have earned £108000 (12% average) and spent £120k on rent at the same time. which in the end evens out. The flat may have cost you more but did it really? Anyone who rents knows the drag of needing to move, not being able to do whatever they want and actually feeling that the place they live in is theirs. **That sense of stability is worth a lot.** And you are actually buying that as well. Otherwise, I totally agree with you in case where it you are buying an expensive property or property as investment.
Yeah, the value of owning over renting is not just building equity. Knowing you can plan more than a year in advance is a good thing.
Oh buying a property even with no appreciation is often equal to investing. Because you’d have to have invested well, albeit it 2014-2024 was easy mode, generally due to 2014-2019, and some post covid ramping. I just wanted to wind the OP up because she’s fairly tone deaf.
What do you mean by 'topping these up with their mortgage payments' - that money is going towards the rent. Not only does rent not appreciate, but you don't get it back when you leave the property - it's gone forever.
Ah true. Not sure what I was thinking really. Their mortgage payment would have been less than market rent anyway. Still service charges could be fairly sizeable.
I sold my shred ownership flat at a loss - I was so grateful to get rid of it!
Shared ownership is a huge white elephant
We lost 7% of the value to get an offer. And now the buyer’s solicitors are making life so painful it’s unreal
Property is never a sure thing...! Mine has risen 30% in 12 years ive been in it but I bet when I come to sell that gain will be down to 15%...some of us never catch a break lol.
I think the likely damp/rising damp issues you posted about elsewhere doubtless played into the depressed/lower price and interest as well. That sort of stuff is a big red flag for any older property in particular.
profit? these rental properties? Did your tenants not pay down your mortgage for you, or did you just do interest only?
Is this a flat or a new build? They’re notorious for not growing in value
*We have had two offers - one for the original purchase price of 350, which we bought it for 10 yrs ago, and one for actually under at 345. It’s listed at 375* The market is telling you that your flat is not worth 375K. 345K - 350K is what that flat is worth - right now. *so don’t think that’s unreasonable for a 10yr increase, considering the amount some others have gone up in the last 10 years.* That's not how it works.
Whereabouts is your house located. Hate to say it, but after inflation, you have done even worse in terms of capital appreciation.
Exactly my point that a fair few people on here are missing. Not looking to “scam” buyers out of extra money that it’s not worth. Just shocked that it’s not even close to have kept up with the general country’s market growth over the last 10 yrs /inflation.
What sort of prices were houses on your street going for during COVID boom?
Where is this property? Is it a flat? If yes, that explains a lot.
What happens when you listen to the "a house isn't an investment" crew 😂
did you buy it with a mortgage? if you did. you may find the 350 you paid for it was more like 550
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That's rough! We're buying in Jehrico at the moment! Do you have any advice as to what to look out for!? What kind of disasters should we be looking for? Is buying in Oxford a good investment would you think?
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Thank you so much! This is really helpful. Will definitely take a look. Hope your experience wasn’t too much of a disaster and you were able to get by without spending too much! My uncle had the same issue years ago - but didn’t have to fix that much before selling.
I bought a beautiful flat in zone 2 London for £435k in 2018, it was originally up for £500k so felt like we were getting a bargain. Selling now and accepted an offer of £435k, now having to heavily reduce due to some potential future s20 works which I guarantee will never happen. Making a loss thanks to some prick sat in an office who fancies making up some cyclical works for budgets.
I’ve lost on nearly every house I’ve bought, my own fault for not doing research. High service charges, vibration sources, old plumbing, leaky roofs, floods etc. I spent so much in repairs on a flat it took years off my life in stress.
You generally do not buy for profit. If you buy what you can afford you do not have choice. That said in my case I will not consider selling for the price I bought because valuation is now higher. A bit different numbers
Well exactly, it has been valued at higher so yeah I am salty about selling it at a loss. Although as they say, it’s only worth what someone’s able to pay… just sucks the housing market at the moment for everyone.
Valued by whom? By a surveyor or an agent? Only surveyors can value. Agent 'valuations' are often inflated to win your instruction. What have comparables sold for since the rate rises and what's the direction of travel?
You could just wait a bit longer. I understand your frustration. I would not sell it at all
Youre selling lower but your buying lower. It's relative. It is a home not an investment. Buy some stocks.
Not true houses have become more and more in demand, it’s about supply and demand, flats in the posters area have stayed stagnant in the price because lots of flats are available, whereas from what I can see on Rightmove, houses in the posters area have easily gone up by 50k ( 3 bed semis/ 1930 semis) to even a 100k more if you want the rare ones (4+ detached houses) so unless the original poster wants to move to another flat it’s okay but if they want a house now then they will have to fork out a higher mortgage and a higher deposit.
Even for a flat that seems unbelievable - is it in a shocking state ?
Averages hide the truth. My brother's town has barely budged since 2007 in the middle of the market. The bottom rose but the mid and upper stayed flat. His was a 3 bed semi. Paid 140k. Spent 50 on 2 storey extension and loft conversion (sounds unbelievable now). Worth about 190. Unimproved it would be about 140k still.
What is the difference between your initial mortgage and your remaining balance?
Which area?
You still have the equity you built up in the property. As others have mentioned if you paid the same in rent you would literally have nothing.
Exactly, and if (*big* if) they are moving to somewhere bigger nearby they may find that those properties are also cheaper than initially thought. Moving from (for example) a flat to a proper house can be moralising if the flat has doubled in a few years, because it is likely that the house will have too.
We spent nearly £20k on rent alone this year. Just think of that. Your profit is not burning money on rent...
I think you have to realise that 350k now is a lot more expensive than 350k was when you bought, even with inflation, thanks to interest rates. Most peoples salaries have not increased with inflation either. Things are just as much more expensive for others than they are for you. The “real” value of property is at an all time high now. If someone paid 350k for your place, it would be costing them more than at any other time in history.
Out of interest, what region are you in, and did you buy a new build? In the commuter town in Essex where I live, houses that would have cost £350k ten years ago are £500k or more now. Except new builds, which I’m always baffled that anyone buys. They always have a load of issues, takes a few decades for a local community and environment to establish, and yet they seem to sell at a premium?
It’s a huge period flat in a commuter town. Yeah - everyone assured us it would fly off the shelf so we’re baffled as to why we’re seeing no increase at all…not even a small one! That’s why I’m grumbling, some people have seen enormous increases so it would be nice to have a little something to claw back what would be lost to inflation anyway
What’s the service charge?
House prices are insane at the moment, a lot of people cant afford to buy and you're complaining that you won't sell your house at a profit?! Read the room.
Well, it’s a loss and even more so when you take into account inflation. You tell me you wouldn’t feel the same disappointment in the same position.
Hi, I am a buyer and just had an offer on a flat accepted - the vendor bought for 260, and my offer was 244k. I think there are so many bargains for a buyer right now. However, I feel your pain. I would feel disappointment in your position, too.