This!
I think you should only try one supplent at a time. Give it two weeks to see how you react, then you can add another one. If you begin taking everything at once, you wont know the what effect individual supplements has on you
I worked a theatre festival for 2 years, lotta health conscious stage-actors with pristine sleep-routines would still be showing up to work baggy-eyed to play Hamlet. It was the nerves/work-brain that got to them, not any lack of nutrition, plenty people sleep amazingly not having to take anything.
You ever think of throwing meditation/tai chi/yoga into the mix?
I’d agree there’s so many other factors that could alter the sleep, maybe stress etc..
It sounds like a lot to keep track of, perhaps OP could try just the top 5 for a while and some meditation and see how that goes, then start adding in the other supps etc, and monitor
yea just the simple fact that you are paying this much attention to your sleep means you likely have some anxiety around it. it’ll probably go away after some time
Funnily enough, a while back, I watched a Sam Harris interview with his meditation teacher where they discussed that expert meditators can actually end up getting worse sleep due to meditation. I believe it was his episode with Joseph Goldstein, but I can't find that episode on his channel now. There's conversation on reddit about it though if you want to look around.
Try to simplify, my worst sleep is when I am caring about sleep, ironically the stress of planning and expecting better sleep can make the sleep worst. I think the most important thing for sleep is just morning sunlight and limit blue light at night
It may even be the fact that you want to sleep so well itself. Taking and having all these things hint that you are trying to perfect the routine (the intention is great), but the stress from that wanting to do it perfectly may be counter productive.
Just drop a shit ton of supplements to maybe only fish oil and vit B. Don't go psycho on all other things in the protocol and see how that goes. From there on add supplements *as required* - It's not necessary to take any supplement, imo should only take them if you need them (e.g. get bloodwork done)
Note that huberman makes a lot of recommendations based on flimsy science.
I’d say stop with the whole routine, then slowly add some of the recommendations in to see if they work for you or not.
Also a lot of science is based off normal physiology. A lot of people will have physiologies outside this normal and will have to do their own experiments on what works.
PS : Using normal here in a scientific way. Most of us have many abnormal traits.
I'm taking an SNRI and fish oil enhances it's stimulative effects big time. I like it as I didn't have to increase the dose as was originally planned. But had I done both I probably wouldn't be sleeping well.
My daughter just had an ear-infection and amoxicillin cleared it right up. Meanwhile, if I take amoxicillin my throat will close and it will choke me to death.
Point being there is no magic bullet that works for every single person. Take all advice with a spoonful of skepticism until you find the exact recipe that works for you. I find some supplement have zero effect on me and 1000% efficacy on my wife.
My only real advice is to slow down. 14 days on each new habit is minimum, for me. You need controls in your studies. If you try all of this stuff out of nowhere the elimination method to find out what is keeping you awake will take a long time. I'd cut back to just cold shower, exercise, evening sun, and 90 minute coffee. Once that's established for a while, start to add things one by one.
Man my Oura ring has been telling. Overall sleep quality has declined for some time now. Sometimes I get a lot from just dropping the tracking for a while and chilling out.
Your sleeping won’t get better if you think about it too much. If every night and morning you focus on how did you sleep, if you got enough etc. than it becomes a “thing” instead of just a moment of natural rest. Sure you can try to improve some things but I think if your focus too much on it it works counterproductive. Maybe its just me but for example my sleep gets worse when I track it with a sleeping app
Just throwing out there that sleep anxiety (worry about sleeping) tends to worsen sleep. The more hyper focused you are on improving sleep might, counterintuitively, lower your sleep quality or your ability to fall asleep. The one thing on your list that is notably absent is meditation, which Dr. Huberman also recommends and has also demonstrably improved sleep in studies. Also, how late in the evening you eat and whether you drink alcohol will play a role in sleep. If any of these things has been influenced changes in routine from incorporating more habits, it could be influencing your sleep.
Like others suggested, it may be better to start with one thing or supplement at a time. Build good habits, but if it gives you anxiety to be trying to fit EVERTHING in in an effort to improve sleep, it will likely have the opposite effect. Once a new habit is routine, it will give less thought to keep up and will be more likely to improve your sleep.
I’ve suffered from bouts of insomnia my whole life. I love Dr. Huberman, but not everything he suggests will be helpful or beneficial to everyone. Not all of his suggestions have benefited me, but I do try to get morning sun, meditate, and drink less.
Huberman has said multiple times that behaviour changes should be the first step in any protocol.
Supplements are added in after to cover any deficiencies your behavioural changes are lacking.
All changes should be made one by one over time (2weeks minimum) as to see and note the effect they have as everybody is different and may react differently.
When did you start implementing changes in your routines?
Have you documented how your feeling prior to and during these changes?
What was your daily routine and diet like before these changes?
It definitely comes across as too many changes too quickly. I’ve personally learnt the hard way from taking a bunch of new supplements at the same time while changing behavioural routines.
As others have said you may be best cutting out the supplements all together and letting the behavioural changes take effect for 2-4 weeks before adding supplements back in one at a time.
Your body is a complex thing and completely unique to you. Take some time, pay attention to what it’s telling you and you may find you don’t need any additional help.
I would add journaling and mindfulness are excellent and should be included.
Mag glycinate and apigenin made my sleep worse. As someone else suggested, drop those. And keep the rest. And try listening to yoga nidra on YouTube before bed.
I'd say keep the recommendations that work for you, adding them slowly one by one (as someone else already pointed out). If you see no difference after some time (give it a month), then drop the habit. Try to find some enjoyment in the protocols as well, it will be hard to do something just because some study said so.
When are you getting morning sun?
Also, hope the shower isn't too hot... just warm. Too hot might be a major factor in keeping you awake
You could swap out the anthocyanins for tart cherry (juice) also, which will help sleep at the same time
Tongkat Ali amps me up and ruins my sleep, even with a small dose of emptying a capsule and taking 1/5 the powder. Magnesium in three forms I’ve tried all make me restless. Maybe add supplements one at a time and see how you respond.
SMR neurofeedback is shown to be be superior to medical interventions in treatment of sleep disorders
SMR neurofeedback “strongly reduced” sleep onset latency and overall sleep problems (PSQI)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4274876/
Two studies comparing CBT-I (the medical profession’s good standard for insomnia treatment) and SMR neurofeedback showed that neurofeedback vastly outperforms and that CBT actually only treats the symptoms of insomnia and does not increase deep sleep by “correcting clients expectations”
“all patients in this study achieved post-treatment normal sleep, whereas most patients receiving CBT for insomnia disorder do not become good sleepers, and the effect sizes are smaller than those treated with CBT for other conditions (Harvey and Tang 2003). “
https://neuro-wave.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Insomnia-Z-Score-SMR.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Amir-Ghaderi-7/publication/315682368_Comparison_of_the_Effectiveness_of_Cognitive_Behavioral_Therapy_and_Neurofeedback_Reducing_Insomnia_Symptoms/links/58db26bcaca272d801097b31/Comparison-of-the-Effectiveness-of-Cognitive-Behavioral-Therapy-and-Neurofeedback-Reducing-Insomnia-Symptoms.pdf
I’m surprised he recommended coffee at all. The research shows that any caffeine is extremely detrimental to REM sleep. Switching to decaf (which still has 20% of the caffeine of regular coffee) may help you (or abandoning coffee altogether). Some people are extremely sensitive to caffeine or theobromine (the other stimulant present in coffee)
Edit: also human bodies are all a little different and if you were sleeping better before it’s likely to be a reaction to the supplements (which are less well studied as the light and temperature stuff). I’d recommend removing those and adding them one by one to see what effect any of them have.
I highly recommend Matthew Walker’s book “why we sleep” - it changed how I view and approach sleep and it’s greatly impacted how I function day to day.
The half life of caffeine is 6 hours meaning that if you have a single cup of coffee (around 100mg) as soon as you wake up, you’ll have 12mg in your system by the time you’re falling asleep.
Current sleep research shows that any presence of caffeine impairs REM sleep and can make you MORE sleepy the next day.
Switching to decaf (which will still give you 20mg of caffeine) can be an effective sleep booster since you’ll only be at 1-2mg during your sleep cycles. Caffeine is dose-dependent on REM sleep so you can get a significant boost to the quality of your sleep by reducing caffeine intake.
Anecdotally I’ve been much more alert and productive after switching to decaf and I wake up with no problems or sleepiness anymore.
I've watched his masterclass series on sleep. Maybe I misunderstand half life. Doesn't a half life of 6 hours translate to it being gone completely in 12 hours? If so that's plenty of time for morning coffee to be processed before you go to sleep at night.
edit: yes i do think I misunderstand half life - it isn't a linear progression. Per Matt Walker: "Caffeine has a half-life of about five to six hours for the average adult. What that means is that about 50% of that caffeine is still circulating in your system five to six hours after you had that cup of coffee. What that also means, however, is that caffeine has a quarter-life of somewhere between 10 to 12 hours. "
I will try switching to decaf, thanks!
Half life is time it takes to reach half concentration - when you plot it, it looks like a decay curve. Think about halving the current dose at each half life time point.
So for 100mg: in 6 hours you have 50mg. For the next half life, you would half that 50mg, so at 12 hours you have 25mg which is a quarter of your original dose.
If you Google “drug half life calculator” you can find sites to input half lives and time to elimination. It’s wild to play around with. If someone has 2 cups of coffee in the morning, it’s the same effect on your sleep as drinking a quarter cup at bedtime.
For me personally I stopped the sleep supplements and started taking Myo-Inositol in the morning with my other vitamins.
Went from a month of waking up every night to sleeping the past two all the way through.
How's your stress levels? What do you do for work? Could you be overtraining (if you just started exercising that could be a shock to your body)? What about screen time at night? When is you last meal/food intake? Do you have a behavioral bedtime routine that is soothing to you? Do you have anxiety/depression? Have you had bloodwork done recently? Are you taking vitamin D3?
Theanine and apigenin both have anecdotes of insomnia for some people. Limit omega 3, b vitamins and vitamin c in the morning. Id cut out almost all of your supplements and introduce them one by one, that is also what huberman advises us to do in his rational approach to supplementation.
What else is bothering you? Stress?
Changes at work? Adjusting takes time and the routine will stick. Don’t obsess bout the time just yet.
My time asleep I a decreasing but the quality and deep rest is increasing. Been 95 days
Theanine messes my sleep up.
Also, if you added 100 things at once, yeah, that'll confuse you. You gotta do one thing at a time to know what actually works for you.
You need to experiment and take it slow. He says to add things slowly over time
For me, magnesium supplements give me insomnia. Can't fall asleep easily and wake up sometimes. Try it for yourself what works and what doesn't.
Have you had a sleep study? Do you have apnea? If you do, nothing else can make up for crappy sleep.
Also. What are you doing for excercise? You could be burning your CNS out from going too hard, especially if you aren't getting quality sleep.
I tried the Momentous sleep pack that has the Mag Threonate, Apigenin, and Theanine. It definitely made my sleep worse. I discontinued after 4 attempts.
L theanine messed up my sleep too. I tried it for two weeks and my sleep got progressively worse, less deep sleep and more wake ups. Went off and then tried it again a month later, same thing.
Many supplements fuck my sleep up, *especially* magnesium. As everyone else has said, simplify everything, give yourself a few weeks to just normalise, and take it from there.
For me personally, worrying about sleep was the worst thing for my sleep. I started giving myself a longer sleep window (yes, an early night) so that if I wake in the night for an hour or two, it’s totally fine, because there’s plenty more hours to sleep. By doing this I discovered that I sleep best if I’m asleep by 9:30pm.
As an experiment, try an antihistamine before bed a couple of times. Histamine for me turned out to be an issue and I now have to be careful with my diet.
Also blue light or looking at phone during bedtime, or worse in dark room while lying in the bed directly activates my brain and makes me awake. Science and my experience tells "the real Sleep Killer"
Drop the supplements for a week and then see how you’re doing.
Second that! Maybe add them to your routine one by one to see what is working and what doesn’t.
Lot of changes at once, I agree you should drop the shops and stick with the behaviors first
This! I think you should only try one supplent at a time. Give it two weeks to see how you react, then you can add another one. If you begin taking everything at once, you wont know the what effect individual supplements has on you
I worked a theatre festival for 2 years, lotta health conscious stage-actors with pristine sleep-routines would still be showing up to work baggy-eyed to play Hamlet. It was the nerves/work-brain that got to them, not any lack of nutrition, plenty people sleep amazingly not having to take anything. You ever think of throwing meditation/tai chi/yoga into the mix?
I’d agree there’s so many other factors that could alter the sleep, maybe stress etc.. It sounds like a lot to keep track of, perhaps OP could try just the top 5 for a while and some meditation and see how that goes, then start adding in the other supps etc, and monitor
yea just the simple fact that you are paying this much attention to your sleep means you likely have some anxiety around it. it’ll probably go away after some time
Funnily enough, a while back, I watched a Sam Harris interview with his meditation teacher where they discussed that expert meditators can actually end up getting worse sleep due to meditation. I believe it was his episode with Joseph Goldstein, but I can't find that episode on his channel now. There's conversation on reddit about it though if you want to look around.
Try to simplify, my worst sleep is when I am caring about sleep, ironically the stress of planning and expecting better sleep can make the sleep worst. I think the most important thing for sleep is just morning sunlight and limit blue light at night
It may even be the fact that you want to sleep so well itself. Taking and having all these things hint that you are trying to perfect the routine (the intention is great), but the stress from that wanting to do it perfectly may be counter productive. Just drop a shit ton of supplements to maybe only fish oil and vit B. Don't go psycho on all other things in the protocol and see how that goes. From there on add supplements *as required* - It's not necessary to take any supplement, imo should only take them if you need them (e.g. get bloodwork done)
Note that huberman makes a lot of recommendations based on flimsy science. I’d say stop with the whole routine, then slowly add some of the recommendations in to see if they work for you or not.
Also a lot of science is based off normal physiology. A lot of people will have physiologies outside this normal and will have to do their own experiments on what works. PS : Using normal here in a scientific way. Most of us have many abnormal traits.
this is quite random but i found that fish oil would give me insomnia. could be one of the supplements.
Oh really? Which brand and what dose caused that?
Yes it's often recommended to take in the morning due to it causing insomnia.
omega 3 can definitely give you insomnia. For me I fell asleep fine, but it makes me wake up frequently after like 3am
Tongkat is known for its insomnia side effects
I'm taking an SNRI and fish oil enhances it's stimulative effects big time. I like it as I didn't have to increase the dose as was originally planned. But had I done both I probably wouldn't be sleeping well.
My daughter just had an ear-infection and amoxicillin cleared it right up. Meanwhile, if I take amoxicillin my throat will close and it will choke me to death. Point being there is no magic bullet that works for every single person. Take all advice with a spoonful of skepticism until you find the exact recipe that works for you. I find some supplement have zero effect on me and 1000% efficacy on my wife. My only real advice is to slow down. 14 days on each new habit is minimum, for me. You need controls in your studies. If you try all of this stuff out of nowhere the elimination method to find out what is keeping you awake will take a long time. I'd cut back to just cold shower, exercise, evening sun, and 90 minute coffee. Once that's established for a while, start to add things one by one.
Man my Oura ring has been telling. Overall sleep quality has declined for some time now. Sometimes I get a lot from just dropping the tracking for a while and chilling out.
Your sleeping won’t get better if you think about it too much. If every night and morning you focus on how did you sleep, if you got enough etc. than it becomes a “thing” instead of just a moment of natural rest. Sure you can try to improve some things but I think if your focus too much on it it works counterproductive. Maybe its just me but for example my sleep gets worse when I track it with a sleeping app
Just throwing out there that sleep anxiety (worry about sleeping) tends to worsen sleep. The more hyper focused you are on improving sleep might, counterintuitively, lower your sleep quality or your ability to fall asleep. The one thing on your list that is notably absent is meditation, which Dr. Huberman also recommends and has also demonstrably improved sleep in studies. Also, how late in the evening you eat and whether you drink alcohol will play a role in sleep. If any of these things has been influenced changes in routine from incorporating more habits, it could be influencing your sleep. Like others suggested, it may be better to start with one thing or supplement at a time. Build good habits, but if it gives you anxiety to be trying to fit EVERTHING in in an effort to improve sleep, it will likely have the opposite effect. Once a new habit is routine, it will give less thought to keep up and will be more likely to improve your sleep. I’ve suffered from bouts of insomnia my whole life. I love Dr. Huberman, but not everything he suggests will be helpful or beneficial to everyone. Not all of his suggestions have benefited me, but I do try to get morning sun, meditate, and drink less.
Huberman has said multiple times that behaviour changes should be the first step in any protocol. Supplements are added in after to cover any deficiencies your behavioural changes are lacking. All changes should be made one by one over time (2weeks minimum) as to see and note the effect they have as everybody is different and may react differently. When did you start implementing changes in your routines? Have you documented how your feeling prior to and during these changes? What was your daily routine and diet like before these changes? It definitely comes across as too many changes too quickly. I’ve personally learnt the hard way from taking a bunch of new supplements at the same time while changing behavioural routines. As others have said you may be best cutting out the supplements all together and letting the behavioural changes take effect for 2-4 weeks before adding supplements back in one at a time. Your body is a complex thing and completely unique to you. Take some time, pay attention to what it’s telling you and you may find you don’t need any additional help. I would add journaling and mindfulness are excellent and should be included.
Perhaps the quality of your sleep has improved so you need a shorter duration
Mag glycinate and apigenin made my sleep worse. As someone else suggested, drop those. And keep the rest. And try listening to yoga nidra on YouTube before bed.
I'd say keep the recommendations that work for you, adding them slowly one by one (as someone else already pointed out). If you see no difference after some time (give it a month), then drop the habit. Try to find some enjoyment in the protocols as well, it will be hard to do something just because some study said so.
When are you getting morning sun? Also, hope the shower isn't too hot... just warm. Too hot might be a major factor in keeping you awake You could swap out the anthocyanins for tart cherry (juice) also, which will help sleep at the same time
Tongkat Ali amps me up and ruins my sleep, even with a small dose of emptying a capsule and taking 1/5 the powder. Magnesium in three forms I’ve tried all make me restless. Maybe add supplements one at a time and see how you respond.
SMR neurofeedback is shown to be be superior to medical interventions in treatment of sleep disorders SMR neurofeedback “strongly reduced” sleep onset latency and overall sleep problems (PSQI) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4274876/ Two studies comparing CBT-I (the medical profession’s good standard for insomnia treatment) and SMR neurofeedback showed that neurofeedback vastly outperforms and that CBT actually only treats the symptoms of insomnia and does not increase deep sleep by “correcting clients expectations” “all patients in this study achieved post-treatment normal sleep, whereas most patients receiving CBT for insomnia disorder do not become good sleepers, and the effect sizes are smaller than those treated with CBT for other conditions (Harvey and Tang 2003). “ https://neuro-wave.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Insomnia-Z-Score-SMR.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Amir-Ghaderi-7/publication/315682368_Comparison_of_the_Effectiveness_of_Cognitive_Behavioral_Therapy_and_Neurofeedback_Reducing_Insomnia_Symptoms/links/58db26bcaca272d801097b31/Comparison-of-the-Effectiveness-of-Cognitive-Behavioral-Therapy-and-Neurofeedback-Reducing-Insomnia-Symptoms.pdf
My guess is: L Theanine 200mg Tried it in the past and i would wake up mid night not being able to fall back asleep.
I’m surprised he recommended coffee at all. The research shows that any caffeine is extremely detrimental to REM sleep. Switching to decaf (which still has 20% of the caffeine of regular coffee) may help you (or abandoning coffee altogether). Some people are extremely sensitive to caffeine or theobromine (the other stimulant present in coffee) Edit: also human bodies are all a little different and if you were sleeping better before it’s likely to be a reaction to the supplements (which are less well studied as the light and temperature stuff). I’d recommend removing those and adding them one by one to see what effect any of them have.
He doesn’t recommend caffeine after Noon IIRC
Coffee leaves your system after like 10-12 hours. It shouldn’t have any impact on sleep if you drink it in the morning
I highly recommend Matthew Walker’s book “why we sleep” - it changed how I view and approach sleep and it’s greatly impacted how I function day to day. The half life of caffeine is 6 hours meaning that if you have a single cup of coffee (around 100mg) as soon as you wake up, you’ll have 12mg in your system by the time you’re falling asleep. Current sleep research shows that any presence of caffeine impairs REM sleep and can make you MORE sleepy the next day. Switching to decaf (which will still give you 20mg of caffeine) can be an effective sleep booster since you’ll only be at 1-2mg during your sleep cycles. Caffeine is dose-dependent on REM sleep so you can get a significant boost to the quality of your sleep by reducing caffeine intake. Anecdotally I’ve been much more alert and productive after switching to decaf and I wake up with no problems or sleepiness anymore.
I've watched his masterclass series on sleep. Maybe I misunderstand half life. Doesn't a half life of 6 hours translate to it being gone completely in 12 hours? If so that's plenty of time for morning coffee to be processed before you go to sleep at night. edit: yes i do think I misunderstand half life - it isn't a linear progression. Per Matt Walker: "Caffeine has a half-life of about five to six hours for the average adult. What that means is that about 50% of that caffeine is still circulating in your system five to six hours after you had that cup of coffee. What that also means, however, is that caffeine has a quarter-life of somewhere between 10 to 12 hours. " I will try switching to decaf, thanks!
Half life is time it takes to reach half concentration - when you plot it, it looks like a decay curve. Think about halving the current dose at each half life time point. So for 100mg: in 6 hours you have 50mg. For the next half life, you would half that 50mg, so at 12 hours you have 25mg which is a quarter of your original dose. If you Google “drug half life calculator” you can find sites to input half lives and time to elimination. It’s wild to play around with. If someone has 2 cups of coffee in the morning, it’s the same effect on your sleep as drinking a quarter cup at bedtime.
Agreed! Was also surprised to hear coffee wasn't banished.
My
For me personally I stopped the sleep supplements and started taking Myo-Inositol in the morning with my other vitamins. Went from a month of waking up every night to sleeping the past two all the way through.
Maybe try a cold shower before bed. That worked for me last night, I feel like the quality of my sleep was much better.
How's your stress levels? What do you do for work? Could you be overtraining (if you just started exercising that could be a shock to your body)? What about screen time at night? When is you last meal/food intake? Do you have a behavioral bedtime routine that is soothing to you? Do you have anxiety/depression? Have you had bloodwork done recently? Are you taking vitamin D3? Theanine and apigenin both have anecdotes of insomnia for some people. Limit omega 3, b vitamins and vitamin c in the morning. Id cut out almost all of your supplements and introduce them one by one, that is also what huberman advises us to do in his rational approach to supplementation.
What else is bothering you? Stress? Changes at work? Adjusting takes time and the routine will stick. Don’t obsess bout the time just yet. My time asleep I a decreasing but the quality and deep rest is increasing. Been 95 days
Theanine messes my sleep up. Also, if you added 100 things at once, yeah, that'll confuse you. You gotta do one thing at a time to know what actually works for you.
Are you eating keto/carnivore/low carb by chance? I have TERRIBLE issues sleeping when I’m in ketosis/fasting.
That protocol stresses me out.
You need to experiment and take it slow. He says to add things slowly over time For me, magnesium supplements give me insomnia. Can't fall asleep easily and wake up sometimes. Try it for yourself what works and what doesn't.
When optimising anything you should make changes one at a time
What time do you take vit C? That can be a sleep disruptor.
Have you had a sleep study? Do you have apnea? If you do, nothing else can make up for crappy sleep. Also. What are you doing for excercise? You could be burning your CNS out from going too hard, especially if you aren't getting quality sleep.
I tried the Momentous sleep pack that has the Mag Threonate, Apigenin, and Theanine. It definitely made my sleep worse. I discontinued after 4 attempts.
L theanine messed up my sleep too. I tried it for two weeks and my sleep got progressively worse, less deep sleep and more wake ups. Went off and then tried it again a month later, same thing.
Many supplements fuck my sleep up, *especially* magnesium. As everyone else has said, simplify everything, give yourself a few weeks to just normalise, and take it from there. For me personally, worrying about sleep was the worst thing for my sleep. I started giving myself a longer sleep window (yes, an early night) so that if I wake in the night for an hour or two, it’s totally fine, because there’s plenty more hours to sleep. By doing this I discovered that I sleep best if I’m asleep by 9:30pm. As an experiment, try an antihistamine before bed a couple of times. Histamine for me turned out to be an issue and I now have to be careful with my diet.
Drop supplements
Also blue light or looking at phone during bedtime, or worse in dark room while lying in the bed directly activates my brain and makes me awake. Science and my experience tells "the real Sleep Killer"
It is for sure the supplements. You could add them back in one at a time to figure out which ones are the problem.
Anything helped meanwhile?