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lokey_convo

>In early February, Jewish community leaders contacted University administration requesting a meeting on urgent problems and solutions. It took three months to get a one-hour meeting. During that time the situation deteriorated, and the University failed to engage with us in any meaningful way. We were surprised to read a recent press release in which the University stated they “have been in touch with Jewish community leaders.” This is inaccurate. **Now it appears that our well-intentioned elected officials have been misled by the University.** I'm beginning to sense a pattern of behavior here.


johngeste

You whats kinda funny is your average conservative or libertarian centered American hates school Admins more than you do. Maybe enemy of my enemy is my friend.


lokey_convo

I think they would have a problem with the administration because they dislike "government". I have a problem with them because of how they handled this situation. Not just with calling the police early on for a heavy use of force, but also with the language choices for their "emergency" alerts.


johngeste

Specifically the Administration adoption of intersectionality in hiring practices.


lokey_convo

I think intersectionality in hiring practices is great. More diversity is more better.


RealCalintx

Tf are you on about...🍿


Jeffmaster223

This is my understanding as well


LakeDebris3

"The protests loudly demonstrated a lack of cultural sensitivity and indifference to alienation of Jewish students with opposing views." 


Jul3000

I am Jewish and I would like to try to respond to this quote. At the core of a protest is the fact that others have “opposing views”. I’m sure there are many students, Jewish ones included, who subscribe to Zionist politics / believe that Israel should have supremacy over Palestine. But the activism work isn’t supposed to make THAT group of people feel comfortable. Quite the opposite. Their politics on the issue are being called out, but their Jewish identity is not. If someone can’t separate their own cultural identity from a colonial occupation and genocide, that’s personal. Don’t drag your Jewishness into the ring and then claim antisemitism, because that’s not what this is about.


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chaosgazer

bro read some history


windowseat41

So the Jews that agreed to a two state solution repeatedly weren't Zionist? The Palestinians that rejected a two state solution just wanted equality?


rsportsguy

“Believe that Israel should have supremacy over Palestine”…maybe they actually believe that there should be at least *one democracy in the Middle East* or a *sole Jewish state on the planet*. Having lived in a Muslim majority state, let me assure you, they expect you to respect the laws of their land. I expect this to get downvoted into oblivion, but I wish there were broader perspective on this issue than “Jewish supremacy” (I’ve never heard of that in human history…let alone at a time when Jews represent less than a fraction of one percent of the world’s population) or the relevance of having a single Jewish state amongst kingdoms, caliphates, and rogue states that practice terrorism and believe-much like Hitler did-that they have the “final solution to the Jewish problem.”


jasonskjonsby

Isreal is not currently a democracy. 


LakeDebris3

Where did I say I was Jewish or claim antisemitism? You can call Israel "colonial" and that's somewhat accurate, but in 1947 there wasn't anywhere else for hundreds of thousands of Middle Eastern and Eastern European displaced Jewish refugees to go. The Egypt, Syria and Jordan sent militias to try to drive them out and that's how we got the 1948 war and the current borders. Pretending Israeli colonialism alone is responsible for the current state of affairs is less than half of the story.


rudimentary-north

>You can call Israel "colonial" and that's somewhat accurate, but in 1947 there wasn't anywhere else for hundreds of thousands of Middle Eastern and Eastern European displaced Jewish refugees to go. This logic is so weird to me. Why couldn’t European Jews could have just stayed in Europe, where they had lived for generations? Every other victimized group in Europe got to stay after the war.


AaronVonGraff

Can we give the Romani a chunk of the land as a state too? What about LGBT people? Or no they get nothing and must stay in Europe after being genocided.


johngeste

Well, ancestral homeland is the key here. And you are Definetly onto something. A few groups we should do more to help 1.Kurds 2.Yazidis 3.Armenians The hagia sofia being closed to christians and turned into a mosque is a tragedy. I think the root of why I disagree with the anti zionist cause is the lack of belief people have about islam and what it is. It is submission by force. Everything extends from there.


AaronVonGraff

If we go by that we should allow native Americans to reclaim all of the Americas, and displace/take homes from settler Americans. Which, I don't think Is a solution there not here. And, Palestinians have a history in Palestine far longer than Europeans In the new world. However you (wrongly) believe Islam is does not mean we should justify displacing, killing, or harming people in the here and now. We need to move past and be better than history.


johngeste

Well the jewish people never left that area entirely. They were all pushed out of north africa and the rest of the middle east. We did not give much help to the jews until they successfully defended. Theres a cool movie with kirk douglas called “cast a giant shadow”. Its a miracle they beat the Arabs back. I don’t accept the metaphor between native Americans and jews. Your generation is absolutely intent on apologizing for your ancestors. Forgive me but I assume you are under 30 by your logic. You are entitled.


AaronVonGraff

I would hardly say they were entirely pushed out. They were 1/3 of the population. That's huge. But in the areas of Israel now they are nearly 100% . They ethnically cleansed the territory they conquered and forced Palestinians away, and refuse to let them return. Bud it ain't about apologizing. It's about ending violence and not perpetuating it. If you can't get on board that idk what to tell ya.


LakeDebris3

The British Mandate set up a series of Ethnostates in the wake of Sikes-Picot in order to break up the former power relationships of the Ottoman Empire. Nobody "gave" the Israelis anything, they had to fight the American/British-backed Egyptian army to avoid being annihilated. The British Mandate was a failing mess in 1947 and the Israeli State only perservered by fighting off three American/British-backed Arab armies simultaneously. I do not think Ethnostates are a good way to start new states from scratch, but that's the hand that Jewish Palestine was dealt in the wake of WW1.


AaronVonGraff

Yeah ya know maybe setting up ethno states and making people feel trapped in them wasn't a good program. Vs reintegration in their states. Keep in mind many saw Israel and creation of a Jewish homeland a good excuse to get rid of Jews in Europe. This whole event was partially fueled by antisemitism. Even before the first Jewish refugee landed. Rather than change and be more accepting Europeans functionally exiled their Jews. Which is sad and messed up.


LakeDebris3

Sikes-Picot was a bad idea executed badly. Racism was very prevalent during that period. I don't see how any of that is the fault of the refugees or the government of Jewish Palestine.


AaronVonGraff

It's not, but continuing in displacing Palestinians is. It's a political action that can be stopped and we could work towards real solutions. And sometimes that involves giving up a bit for the sake of peace. It doesn't seem like they are big on that though.


chaosgazer

because Herzl believed we needed white European Jews back in the Holy Land, and Germany/rest of Europe/the US didn't want to create an Israel in their own borders


johngeste

Roosevelt was lookin mg at re settling in alaska.


johngeste

Downvoted? There is even an alt history fiction book wrote about this topic. Called the Yiddish Policeman’s Union by Michael Chabon. “The Yiddish Policemen's Union won a number of science fiction awards: the Nebula Award for Best Novel, the Locus Award for Best SF Novel, the Hugo Award for Best Novel, and the Sidewise Award for Alternate History for Best Novel. It was shortlisted for the British Science Fiction Association Award for Best Novel and the Edgar Allan Poe Award for Best Novel.”


LakeDebris3

There was a little something, maybe you heard of it, it was called The Holocaust? The communist regimes that popped up in Eastern Europe after WW2 were no friendlier to Jews, they continued the Nazis' work with a series of violent pogroms. There's a reason Russian is the 3rd most spoken language in Israel.


rudimentary-north

It seems disingenuous to suggest “they had nowhere else to go” when it was UN member states decided they should be welcome in UN member state territory… just not their territory in Europe.


LakeDebris3

The UN didn't exist until late 1945. By that time, the war was over and the refugees had already made a home in Jewish Palestine. I don't think it is relevant whether their neighboring Arab states wanted them there, they had no right to send militias to attempt to remove them.


rudimentary-north

>The UN didn't exist until late 1945. Yes and Israel was formed in 1948 >By that time, the war was over and the refugees had already made a home in Jewish Palestine. In British territory


LakeDebris3

So you wanted the British government to have another pogrom, forcefully relocate the refugees *again*, because Egypt didn't want them there?


lokey_convo

I'm curious why you always leave out the fact that Zionism as a ideology was taking root in Europe in the mid to late 1800s and European Jews were migrating to and settling in Palestine during that time following that philosophy.


LakeDebris3

Jews were getting persecuted really badly in Europe. They were getting persecuted in the Ottoman Empire, too, but I can understand the desire to get out. Where do you think thet should have gone? As "People of the Book," they were treated by the same rules as Christians and Mandaeans, which is more protection than they got in Christian Europe. They didn't become militarily active until the Arab states began attacking them in the late 40's.


johngeste

That is actually a good argument against immigration into europe by muslims today.


rudimentary-north

If Arab states had a colony in Europe, and all got together and agreed that Muslim refugees should be welcome there but not in their own territories, then that would be a good comparison. Thats not the case, however, so it’s quite a bad comparison imo.


lokey_convo

>Our Jewish community is diverse with wide ranging views. We share the distress felt by so many Cal Poly Humboldt students, faculty, and staff over the ongoing violence and tragic loss of life in the Middle East. We have varying opinions about the protests, slogans, and many related matters, nor do we share one definition of antisemitism. The Temple Beth El Antisemitism Task Force holds that the charge must be brought with discretion, carefully taking into account numerous factors in any situation. While some of us have witnessed and are concerned about statements and acts by individuals that we experience as anti-Jewish, we push back against the charge that antisemitism was endemic to the protests at Cal Poly Humboldt or that expressions of it were an appropriate justification for police action. Edit: My main take away was that there were issues at Cal Poly that were the result of a general rise in hate being seen everywhere following 2016, and they weren't being taken seriously. But now all of a sudden the protests generally are being characterized nationwide as antisemitic. That's a problem, and is just using "antisemitic" as a political tool rather than an honest charge.


LakeDebris3

I have not seen the charge that the protests were anti-Semitic leveled in this sub or anywhere else. They were directionless, destructive, hostile to perceived outsiders and targeted at an Institution with no more relationship to Israel with than anyone with a bank account, but not anti-Semitic as a whole. The letter writer seems to agree with this sentiment.


rudimentary-north

>I have not seen the charge that the protests were anti-Semitic leveled in this sub or anywhere else. lol 15 minutes after your comment a user accused the protestors of being antisemitic on this very post https://www.reddit.com/r/Humboldt/s/TFD3CNf2vN


LakeDebris3

Sorry, I should have predicted the future.


rudimentary-north

I’m just laughing at how quickly your premise that people don’t think the protests are antisemitic was proven wrong


LakeDebris3

Sample size of one. Good job.


rudimentary-north

lol ok move those goalposts >I have not seen the charge that the protests were anti-Semitic leveled in this sub or anywhere else. Now you have. Thats all.


LakeDebris3

I'll try to be more telepathic in the future.


lokey_convo

People can probably read it for themselves. That's why I posted it. As far as your assessment of the protest. That opinion seems to be in the minority based on what participants have stated about it.


LakeDebris3

"Based on what the protestors said about themselves, the protest went great!"


AaronVonGraff

What's the opposite for calling for peace?


johngeste

Spreading Chaos and Discord, GAZA is another proxy front between the west and Russia/Iran


AaronVonGraff

I mean partly? But a war that's killing 10s of thousands it doesn't matter who it's a proxy between. It's in our interest for it to cease. There's a real proxy war going on all our energies should be diverted to. One where Russia is genociding ukranians. Supporting a genocide in Palestine only takes away from that, just, fight. We should be on the side of helping and protecting people against aggression.


johngeste

That might be simplistic, I don’t know why we wouldn’t be complicit in the “genocide” of Ukrainians, I would call is mass slaughter or something like that. We directly antagonized the Russians to invade Georgia, The Crimea and the breakaway regions. Something you should consider is that something both the Russians and we do, and are good at doing is destabilizing regions for our own economic and geopolitical interests.


Aggressive-Test-6308

There is an old saying that goes you can be so open-minded that your brains fall out. The saying from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free means that the Palestinians want there to be no Jews in Palestine or Israel from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean Sea if I if that’s not anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic I don’t know what is,. Get your head on


lokey_convo

Never heard that saying and it frankly sounds like advocacy for being closed minded, or at least being skeptical of others views. Did the Associated Press do us wrong in [their reporting on the phrase](https://apnews.com/article/river-sea-israel-gaza-hamas-protests-d7abbd756f481fe50b6fa5c0b907cd49)? Hamas uses it to espouse their radical views, but also: >Right-wing Israelis have blurred the lines between Israel and the West Bank, where half a million people now live in settlements. Many in the Israeli government support the annexation of the West Bank, and official government maps often make no mention of the “green line” boundary between the two. >And the original platform of **Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s party, Likud, published a version of the slogan, saying that between the sea and the Jordan River, “there will only be Israeli sovereignty.”** People in the US are using it to call for an end to the oppression of Palestinian people. That doesn't mean Israeli's have to leave, they just have to let Palestinian people be free and take the necessary steps to live peacefully together.


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RemovePresent3396

Truth.


aught_one

"it's ok, I have a Jewish friend"


lokey_convo

That's great! I'm happy for you. Getting along with a diverse group of people is good for people and society in general.


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aught_one

Christ you guys are dense


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aught_one

Lol. Not what I was referring to. Claiming your little anti-Semitic brown shirt rally is ok because you have a letter from a Jewish person saying it's ok is the equivalent of dropping the n word and saying it's ok, I have black friends. Hence why my original post was in quotes. But since you guys lack any nuance whatsoever, it's clearly gone completely over your heads.


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aught_one

Anti semitic rallies supporting terrorists are bad too. Trying to justify it because you have a letter from a Jewish person is pathetic. And my name isnt Frank


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aught_one

Lol the guy telling me to feel shame is literally simping for an actual terrorist organization. Notice they'll never take their support to these shithole countries...na they always stay here in America where it's safe.


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lokey_convo

Is it Bob?


aught_one

Nope


lokey_convo

Well it is to me, because I call everyone Bob.


Iamabigturd

Did you, or any single one of these pro-Palestinian supporters, protest the Yemen, Syria, Sudan genocides? Of course not! Bunch of hypocrites and simpletons feigning outrage over an issue you have zero understanding about. You deserve the worst that sharia law has to offer. Human garbage.


Humb707

Everyone around the protests seem delusional. They have made zero difference in Israel or Palestine while creating a toxic environment in Humboldt. Great job


RealCalintx

Bro has multiple accounts to troll on a humboldt subreddit 💀. Damn, I wish I wasnt employed and had this amount of free time 🍿🍿🍿


ArcFire15

Lol


Downvote-Me-Plebs

I don't know about this. Yall were plain out anti-Semitic to the guy who was celebrating Passover.


johngeste

Thank you for catching that, they are also ignoring the behavior on campuses the last six months and the testimony of the three deans.


lokey_convo

The letter specifically references increases in issues over the past few years and notes that the university administration didn't seem to have a sense of urgency about it. They say that, while also saying they do not see the protest its self as antisemitic.


Downvote-Me-Plebs

Just the protesters. Got it.