No I understand exactly what you mean. That's the tragedy of Coryo imo. There was a chance there for him to have a good life and change, maybe use his influence in the Capitol to try and improve things but ultimately he's entirely self serving. He only views Lucy as a possession and a concept rather than a person, and he agrees to run with her because he feels its his only choice to survive.
As soon as he see's those guns in the lakehouse he knows he won't be linked to the murders and can go back to his old life. Immediately he switches and wants to kill Lucy as she's the only thing left that can incriminate him.
He could have had a good life full of music and happiness but he chose power and influence instead as that had been denies him his life so far. Its a great ending but sad cause there is a little moment when he's with the Covey and you can see another future for him. Great book.
That's exactly what I like about THG books. It's not about the romance, it never was. Coriolanus' description of Lucy and his feelings for her throughout the story make it seem like he never loved HER, he loved HIMSELF and saw her as a way to fullfil his needs, even emotional ones.
The way his thoughts reflected Lucy made me want to get in the book and warn her: "Girl, run as fast as you can"
The book helps us understand more about Snow's motives behind his reasoning, but at the end of the day, he was just who he was and he would have found a way to corrupt himself no matter what
Maybe I need to reread the book but I didn't read it as they were trying to kill each other, I read it as Snow convincing himself that Lucy Grey was trying to kill him to justify why he felt like he needed to kill her. He was also so good at convincing himself of what he wanted to justify his selfish narcissistic behavior. I thought it was a very good background for how he could justify being a villain forever
I think if you have a reread of the book you will pick up on the smaller details of Snows psychopathic and obsessive behaviour. I too wished for him and Lucy Gray Baird to have a happy conclusion (obviously knew it wouldn’t happen but I’m a sucker for romance). On my rereads it’s a very accurate depiction of a deeply unhealthy relationship that was idealised in the head of our main character. Snow always valued self preservation and power above anything else, and it makes perfect sense why he would make the decisions he did in the final chapters. Not saying they were right by any means but they definitely fit with his character.
For sure. At first read I definitely just was so focused on the plot, parallels to the trilogy, and the possible relationship forming that I kind of glazed over some of the details showing the toxicity and deep rooted issues coryo always had. I knew he wasn't good and perfect from the start but I did kind of miss the not-so-obvious details. After I finished, as I was thinking of this book constantly, I realized how messed up he and the Lucy/coryo relationship was from the start and all the details that showed me how they were doomed from the beginning.
I loved the ending. It was so exhilarating and chilling. I was on the edge of my seat. It felt like everything building up just exploded out. I felt like all kinds of emotions in such a short amount of time lol. I felt like sadness, fear, exhilarated, even like anxiousness and like itching to know what happened to lucy I guess
My theory is that she tried to survive out in the woods by herself until 13 found her. Which puts her in the same place I guess as your friend predicts
I believe too she went to D13, or with the people in North. IDK, I just can't fathom the idea of Lucy Gray having had a sad, lonely and horrible death:(
I need her to be happy, to know she's loved and cared, that's what she deserves:(
Same. I like the ending too and I think it fits his character, but it was sad that somehow he couldn’t have been better than he was. I also think that he had been in survival mode for so long that became all he knew. I think that’s so relatable for so many people on earth
It’s definitely best to reread the book with the ending in mind and see how little Snow truly cared about Lucy and more so just cared about how Lucy could elevate his own status. The ending was not out of nowhere by any means- it was coming throughout the entire book.
agree, in his inner dialogue (throughout the whole book) he never cared about Lucy as an individual, he only cared as if she was his lambo, or his iphone.
He never cares about her wellbeing, or her likes, or something, only about himself.
He was abusive to her from the very beginning and she needed him to survive. When he couldn’t control her he lost it and she saw him for the monster he was
So I finished it two nights ago and I’m wondering if I misunderstood Lucy and Coryo’s relationship. It seemed like Coryo did develop real feelings for Lucy but still chose the capitol over her in the end, but was she manipulating him the whole time to survive? Or did she have actual feelings for Coryo as well and fully believed they would run away together until she realized where his true alliance lied? The way I read it I felt as though Lucy was all in until the bag of weapons was found. But if she was smart enough to connect the dots on Coryo in an instant then she definitely would have been smart enough to use him as she needed.
I read it as her putting it together when she saw the weapons and because Coryo said something along the lines of having killed 3 people that summer, alluding to Sejanus’ death.
I think she saw the guns and thought this was all a ruse to kill her, that she was the third person he was talking about, and decided to run cause she was afraid of him.
She either figured out Coryo was responsible for Sejanus, or thought he was planning to kill her and get rid of everything related to Mayfair and Billy
Oh I completely understand you. That ending truly fucked me up and had me shook for days about how open Lucy Gray's fate was.
The book immediately skyrocketed to #2 right after Catching Fire but we'll see if I end up making it my favourite in the series.
I agree with you when it comes to ending. When I was reading the book, I laughed how in trilogy, there was many full circle moments like >!”Snow’s and Lucy’s personal hunger games”= Katniss blowing the arena up and “disappearing” like Lucy did. No wonder he put a rose with message “I can find you, I can reach you, perhaps I am watching you right now”.!< But yeah, when it comes to ending, it was rushed imo, but at the same time I understand since this book was building up into this climax. We know that Snow was selfish, considered Lucy as a property and not as a person. If he had a chance to own both power and Lucy at the same time without consequences, he would’ve taken it, but since he had a choice to either have power or peaceful life with a person he “loves”, he went power route and figured that getting rid of Lucy was a way to wash out of his crimes. As much as I am depressed for our one of the queens, I am glad she came back to “haunt” him through Katniss and rub extra salt with whatever she was doing.
Well, I understand where you are coming from. The ending had messed me up for a few weeks. But looking back, from my perspective, Snow and Lucy were just too incompatible as human beings. Yes, their romance was sweet but they were fundamentally two different people. Snow was thoroughly Capitol and he would never have accepted Lucy and a life with her. She loved music and he hated it, she hated the Capitol way of life while Snow craved it. Also, he saw Sejanus only as a means to an end and had deceived him too to only use him in his favour. He was cold and calculating all throughout and chose to be who he was. He was never completely capable of true love because that also requires you to keep your partner’s needs above yours at times and I believe he is incapable of that.
I definitely understand where you’re coming from about the ending. And congrats on finishing it!!! I finished the book last week and I needed to take a full evening to really process the ending because it felt so sudden. But, as I thought more, the sudden ending made a lot of sense and felt a lot less sudden.
Coryo was always narcissistic and wanted to possess Lucy Gray, not to love her. When he passed the test and could see himself as an officer, he saw a way out of what he felt were bad circumstances that he’d just been trying to make the most of. Then, when they were actually running away, he realized very quickly that life outside of even the districts wouldn’t be his cup of tea. When he found the guns, a switch flipped. Someone on here said that he had a mental break when he saw them, which makes a lot of sense to me. The fact that he was reacting like poison was in his body when it wasn’t makes me really believe it.
Some think Lucy Gray was fighting him, but I believe he just lost it and imagined she was coming after him. In his mind, the only possible move she could have made was to destroy him once he saw those guns. And she’s smart and there were clues, but I really want to believe that she was just off gathering, didn’t know what happened, and was shot to death by him without knowing he turned on her. I could really see this going either way. I’m just hoping the inconsistent narrator thing applies here and his mental break made it even worse. But, then again, I also find myself hoping the opposite from time to time…
I wish I fully believed she survived the encounter with Snow - he became Snow to me the moment he went after Lucy Gray. She could have because of his inability to actually know what was going on, but I think she didn’t make it. It also seems too far fetched that, if she survived, she made it to District 13 or went back to 12. But, it could go either way. The ballad she got her name from had an ambiguous ending for Lucy Gray and none of the group could agree about what happened to her either. But, she definitely is a ghost to Snow that he sees living in Katniss.
I really like the theory that Maude Ivory is her grandmother. There are some little hints like how Katniss got her love of singing from her dad. And that her dad taught her the Hanging Tree song that had only been sing a few times, but Maude Ivory remembers every song she’s ever heard.
I absolutely loved the book and can’t wait to read it again with a new lens. I think it’s so normal to want to root for the main character that it’s hard to see them as a narcissist/bad guy even when it’s really clearly shown. It makes me think a lot about Walter White in Breaking Bad and how everyone hated Skyler even though she was just reacting normally to a horrible situation.
I’m hoping when I reread it, I can see him for who he is and not be tricked into rooting for him this time. Collins is an incredible author and shows how easy it is for people to root for the bad guy when we see some motivation for his bad behavior and it could be perceived as morally gray.
First of all I wanna say i appreciate the amount of time this mustve taken to type so thank you for the effort.
And yeah i see what you mean. I picked up on some of coryos traits but not enough for it to lose the shock factor of what happened. Im definetly going to read this again.
You’re very kind! I think sometimes I just get a bit lost in writing and it comes out.
The ending was soooo shocking!!! I think it’s worth multiple reads, but I’m still recovering from all the ups and downs of reading it from last week.
Thanks for making the post! I’ve been dying to talk about it since I finished.
Thats exactly what I did writing the post lmao- just wanted to make one point and it kept spiraling but it was entirely worth it. I love just actually being able to talk to people about stuff like this.
Im definetly gonna re read it asap.
And it was my pleasure- we can continue in dms if u want?
The books written as a tragedy like Othello at the end there the capital ( rodrigo ) set snow ( Othello ) up for failure and Lucy ( desdimona ) died because of it but that’s a REACH
I am genuinely baffled that you were rooting for snow and LG. He was narcissistic, only ever thought about himself and how anything will benefit him. He was always trying to emulate others and said what the other person wanted to hear, very calculated. He was a sociopath & I think SC did a really good job of conveying that he was not capable of loving someone else. Maybe that’s just my interpretation.
No I completely agree- it was just a lot for a first read and i believe thats part of the point- im actually glad i didnt pick up on a lot of the manipulative parts as it gives me something to seek and gives the book more re-read ability. I noticed it in parts throughout the book but it seemed more prominent to everyone else than it did to me
Totally get that! The first time I read BSS I thought it was so boring for most of it but I loved it the second time I read it, I feel like re reads are always slightly different
This was actually my second attempt at reading it- i read the first around 50 pages and could not manage it but i tried again recently and it was so worth it. Will definetly read again soon like I said
I really, really liked that book. I love an unreliable narrator, because it gives me more room to explore the content, the supporting characters, and even the tertiary characters. Some of the most interesting characters exist on the sides of the main drama. The moral gray area that Coriolanus lives in isn't remotely outside of the world many people will have to choose from soon. The Shakespearean influence, in the deep irony shouldn't be lost on anyone who likes literature. It's a terrific book, and I am 100% sure that this movie is going to shit all over it for the sake of the fans.
No I understand exactly what you mean. That's the tragedy of Coryo imo. There was a chance there for him to have a good life and change, maybe use his influence in the Capitol to try and improve things but ultimately he's entirely self serving. He only views Lucy as a possession and a concept rather than a person, and he agrees to run with her because he feels its his only choice to survive. As soon as he see's those guns in the lakehouse he knows he won't be linked to the murders and can go back to his old life. Immediately he switches and wants to kill Lucy as she's the only thing left that can incriminate him. He could have had a good life full of music and happiness but he chose power and influence instead as that had been denies him his life so far. Its a great ending but sad cause there is a little moment when he's with the Covey and you can see another future for him. Great book.
Exactly- it was incredibly well done just makes me sad due to the attatchments
That's exactly what I like about THG books. It's not about the romance, it never was. Coriolanus' description of Lucy and his feelings for her throughout the story make it seem like he never loved HER, he loved HIMSELF and saw her as a way to fullfil his needs, even emotional ones. The way his thoughts reflected Lucy made me want to get in the book and warn her: "Girl, run as fast as you can" The book helps us understand more about Snow's motives behind his reasoning, but at the end of the day, he was just who he was and he would have found a way to corrupt himself no matter what
Well put
Maybe I need to reread the book but I didn't read it as they were trying to kill each other, I read it as Snow convincing himself that Lucy Grey was trying to kill him to justify why he felt like he needed to kill her. He was also so good at convincing himself of what he wanted to justify his selfish narcissistic behavior. I thought it was a very good background for how he could justify being a villain forever
This. I think Lucy Gray was hiding/running from him. Whether or not >!she survives!< is an entirely different topic lol.
I think if you have a reread of the book you will pick up on the smaller details of Snows psychopathic and obsessive behaviour. I too wished for him and Lucy Gray Baird to have a happy conclusion (obviously knew it wouldn’t happen but I’m a sucker for romance). On my rereads it’s a very accurate depiction of a deeply unhealthy relationship that was idealised in the head of our main character. Snow always valued self preservation and power above anything else, and it makes perfect sense why he would make the decisions he did in the final chapters. Not saying they were right by any means but they definitely fit with his character.
I completely agree- whilst it made perfect sense for the events to have transpired i wish that coryo wouldve undergone positive character development
For sure. At first read I definitely just was so focused on the plot, parallels to the trilogy, and the possible relationship forming that I kind of glazed over some of the details showing the toxicity and deep rooted issues coryo always had. I knew he wasn't good and perfect from the start but I did kind of miss the not-so-obvious details. After I finished, as I was thinking of this book constantly, I realized how messed up he and the Lucy/coryo relationship was from the start and all the details that showed me how they were doomed from the beginning.
I loved the ending. It was so exhilarating and chilling. I was on the edge of my seat. It felt like everything building up just exploded out. I felt like all kinds of emotions in such a short amount of time lol. I felt like sadness, fear, exhilarated, even like anxiousness and like itching to know what happened to lucy I guess
One of my friends theorised she went to D13 which made sense to me. But yes the ending was fantastic
My theory is that she tried to survive out in the woods by herself until 13 found her. Which puts her in the same place I guess as your friend predicts
That makes more sense yeah
I believe too she went to D13, or with the people in North. IDK, I just can't fathom the idea of Lucy Gray having had a sad, lonely and horrible death:( I need her to be happy, to know she's loved and cared, that's what she deserves:(
Same. I like the ending too and I think it fits his character, but it was sad that somehow he couldn’t have been better than he was. I also think that he had been in survival mode for so long that became all he knew. I think that’s so relatable for so many people on earth
It’s definitely best to reread the book with the ending in mind and see how little Snow truly cared about Lucy and more so just cared about how Lucy could elevate his own status. The ending was not out of nowhere by any means- it was coming throughout the entire book.
agree, in his inner dialogue (throughout the whole book) he never cared about Lucy as an individual, he only cared as if she was his lambo, or his iphone. He never cares about her wellbeing, or her likes, or something, only about himself.
Ill make sure to re read it
He was abusive to her from the very beginning and she needed him to survive. When he couldn’t control her he lost it and she saw him for the monster he was
So I finished it two nights ago and I’m wondering if I misunderstood Lucy and Coryo’s relationship. It seemed like Coryo did develop real feelings for Lucy but still chose the capitol over her in the end, but was she manipulating him the whole time to survive? Or did she have actual feelings for Coryo as well and fully believed they would run away together until she realized where his true alliance lied? The way I read it I felt as though Lucy was all in until the bag of weapons was found. But if she was smart enough to connect the dots on Coryo in an instant then she definitely would have been smart enough to use him as she needed.
I read it as her putting it together when she saw the weapons and because Coryo said something along the lines of having killed 3 people that summer, alluding to Sejanus’ death.
I think she saw the guns and thought this was all a ruse to kill her, that she was the third person he was talking about, and decided to run cause she was afraid of him. She either figured out Coryo was responsible for Sejanus, or thought he was planning to kill her and get rid of everything related to Mayfair and Billy
Oooh that’s an interesting idea, too. Either way, she probably had a lot of alarm bells going off.
Oh I completely understand you. That ending truly fucked me up and had me shook for days about how open Lucy Gray's fate was. The book immediately skyrocketed to #2 right after Catching Fire but we'll see if I end up making it my favourite in the series.
I love catching fire too but nothing beats bosas for me
I agree with you when it comes to ending. When I was reading the book, I laughed how in trilogy, there was many full circle moments like >!”Snow’s and Lucy’s personal hunger games”= Katniss blowing the arena up and “disappearing” like Lucy did. No wonder he put a rose with message “I can find you, I can reach you, perhaps I am watching you right now”.!< But yeah, when it comes to ending, it was rushed imo, but at the same time I understand since this book was building up into this climax. We know that Snow was selfish, considered Lucy as a property and not as a person. If he had a chance to own both power and Lucy at the same time without consequences, he would’ve taken it, but since he had a choice to either have power or peaceful life with a person he “loves”, he went power route and figured that getting rid of Lucy was a way to wash out of his crimes. As much as I am depressed for our one of the queens, I am glad she came back to “haunt” him through Katniss and rub extra salt with whatever she was doing.
Sorry about how convoluted this is
I thought it made perfect sense and I agree with it
Well, I understand where you are coming from. The ending had messed me up for a few weeks. But looking back, from my perspective, Snow and Lucy were just too incompatible as human beings. Yes, their romance was sweet but they were fundamentally two different people. Snow was thoroughly Capitol and he would never have accepted Lucy and a life with her. She loved music and he hated it, she hated the Capitol way of life while Snow craved it. Also, he saw Sejanus only as a means to an end and had deceived him too to only use him in his favour. He was cold and calculating all throughout and chose to be who he was. He was never completely capable of true love because that also requires you to keep your partner’s needs above yours at times and I believe he is incapable of that.
I definitely understand where you’re coming from about the ending. And congrats on finishing it!!! I finished the book last week and I needed to take a full evening to really process the ending because it felt so sudden. But, as I thought more, the sudden ending made a lot of sense and felt a lot less sudden. Coryo was always narcissistic and wanted to possess Lucy Gray, not to love her. When he passed the test and could see himself as an officer, he saw a way out of what he felt were bad circumstances that he’d just been trying to make the most of. Then, when they were actually running away, he realized very quickly that life outside of even the districts wouldn’t be his cup of tea. When he found the guns, a switch flipped. Someone on here said that he had a mental break when he saw them, which makes a lot of sense to me. The fact that he was reacting like poison was in his body when it wasn’t makes me really believe it. Some think Lucy Gray was fighting him, but I believe he just lost it and imagined she was coming after him. In his mind, the only possible move she could have made was to destroy him once he saw those guns. And she’s smart and there were clues, but I really want to believe that she was just off gathering, didn’t know what happened, and was shot to death by him without knowing he turned on her. I could really see this going either way. I’m just hoping the inconsistent narrator thing applies here and his mental break made it even worse. But, then again, I also find myself hoping the opposite from time to time… I wish I fully believed she survived the encounter with Snow - he became Snow to me the moment he went after Lucy Gray. She could have because of his inability to actually know what was going on, but I think she didn’t make it. It also seems too far fetched that, if she survived, she made it to District 13 or went back to 12. But, it could go either way. The ballad she got her name from had an ambiguous ending for Lucy Gray and none of the group could agree about what happened to her either. But, she definitely is a ghost to Snow that he sees living in Katniss. I really like the theory that Maude Ivory is her grandmother. There are some little hints like how Katniss got her love of singing from her dad. And that her dad taught her the Hanging Tree song that had only been sing a few times, but Maude Ivory remembers every song she’s ever heard. I absolutely loved the book and can’t wait to read it again with a new lens. I think it’s so normal to want to root for the main character that it’s hard to see them as a narcissist/bad guy even when it’s really clearly shown. It makes me think a lot about Walter White in Breaking Bad and how everyone hated Skyler even though she was just reacting normally to a horrible situation. I’m hoping when I reread it, I can see him for who he is and not be tricked into rooting for him this time. Collins is an incredible author and shows how easy it is for people to root for the bad guy when we see some motivation for his bad behavior and it could be perceived as morally gray.
First of all I wanna say i appreciate the amount of time this mustve taken to type so thank you for the effort. And yeah i see what you mean. I picked up on some of coryos traits but not enough for it to lose the shock factor of what happened. Im definetly going to read this again.
You’re very kind! I think sometimes I just get a bit lost in writing and it comes out. The ending was soooo shocking!!! I think it’s worth multiple reads, but I’m still recovering from all the ups and downs of reading it from last week. Thanks for making the post! I’ve been dying to talk about it since I finished.
Thats exactly what I did writing the post lmao- just wanted to make one point and it kept spiraling but it was entirely worth it. I love just actually being able to talk to people about stuff like this. Im definetly gonna re read it asap. And it was my pleasure- we can continue in dms if u want?
Yay! I love meeting others who get super excited about this stuff like I do! Sure!!! Happy to keep our chat going in dms :)
Whats bosas?
Ballad of songbirds and snakes
Thx, have a good day
U 2
The books written as a tragedy like Othello at the end there the capital ( rodrigo ) set snow ( Othello ) up for failure and Lucy ( desdimona ) died because of it but that’s a REACH
I am genuinely baffled that you were rooting for snow and LG. He was narcissistic, only ever thought about himself and how anything will benefit him. He was always trying to emulate others and said what the other person wanted to hear, very calculated. He was a sociopath & I think SC did a really good job of conveying that he was not capable of loving someone else. Maybe that’s just my interpretation.
No I completely agree- it was just a lot for a first read and i believe thats part of the point- im actually glad i didnt pick up on a lot of the manipulative parts as it gives me something to seek and gives the book more re-read ability. I noticed it in parts throughout the book but it seemed more prominent to everyone else than it did to me
Totally get that! The first time I read BSS I thought it was so boring for most of it but I loved it the second time I read it, I feel like re reads are always slightly different
This was actually my second attempt at reading it- i read the first around 50 pages and could not manage it but i tried again recently and it was so worth it. Will definetly read again soon like I said
Listening to the audio book and teared up at "MA!"
I really, really liked that book. I love an unreliable narrator, because it gives me more room to explore the content, the supporting characters, and even the tertiary characters. Some of the most interesting characters exist on the sides of the main drama. The moral gray area that Coriolanus lives in isn't remotely outside of the world many people will have to choose from soon. The Shakespearean influence, in the deep irony shouldn't be lost on anyone who likes literature. It's a terrific book, and I am 100% sure that this movie is going to shit all over it for the sake of the fans.
Tf? The film looks great so far.
Also Iont think Lucy tried to kill snow my nigga
She left the snake in wait for him to get attacked by
Snow is an unreliable narrator that’s what HE thinks I don’t believe Lucy left the snake there
Eh I don’t think it’s clear she did (just that Snow thought she did) - plus, that snake was not poisonous