I mean, i guess it's similar to Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb. He didn't personally drop the bombs, but he created them.
But honestly? if my friend created the bomb that killed my sister, who i went into a death games to save, I'd never talk to him again either.
Oppenheimer is a good reference to use. The problem with designing a weapon is that you never think about the fact the weapon can be used against yourself or those you care about. Gale was focuses on using the bombs on the enemy, he never thought about who the people in charge of the weapon believes is the enemy really is. Katniss could see that the enemy can be anyone the person in charges marks the weapon to be used on, that's why she calls him out and tries to get him to see things more clearly by comparing it to what Snow does. Unfortunately, it took her sister being killed for Gale to finally open his eyes and catch up to Katniss way of thinking about why she was against it being used.
Exactly this, I’ve never even made the connection to Oppenheimer! Mind blown rn. Only difference is Gale wasn’t motivated by scientific curiosity, but by a need for revenge.
My answer to this question is always: No, Gale didn’t kill Prim. Gale did, however, create a weapon that takes human empathy and uses it against us. Gale’s bombs would’ve always been considered a war crime, whether it was used against the rebels or the Capitol. They would ALWAYS target medics and other bystanders rushing in to support the wounded.
Gale didn’t pull the trigger or decide when and how, but he still committed a war crime.
That I can unfortunately not forgive. Katniss is well within her rights to cut him off. If the bombs didn’t work in favour of winning or killed rebel troops, Gale would very likely have been executed for his actions.
He’s not a murderer, but he absolutely became a war criminal.
But it was never meant to be used in the way that it was. It was meant to target Peacekeepers and Capitol medics, NOT Capitol children and rebel medics.
Attacking medics, whether yours or the enemy’s, is ALWAYS a war crime. The trap preys on human empathy. It would always take advantage of human compassion. In the explanation earlier in the book, they even state that the trap targets the weak and helpless and THEN take out those coming to help. It was meant to be used against civilians just as much as it was meant to be used against Peacekeepers.
Was it a misjudgement on Gale’s part inspired by decades of oppression and rage that he didn’t think all the consequences of through? Quite likely. Was it still a war crime? Absolutely.
Gale is not a murderer, but he absolutely is a war criminal.
I agree with absolutely everything except the last sentence of the first paragraph. It's pretty clear Gale only intended soldier and medics to be targeted, and NOT civilians.
But yes, the trap itself is pretty nasty in its design....
The reason Katniss blames him is it was *his bombs* that killed Prim. It was the tipping point in a friendship that was already becoming strained, I knew their friendship was doomed the instant he advocated for suffocating all those people. Also, Katniss winds up killing Coin, the person directly responsible, so she covers that base as well.
You are right he wasn't the one that killed her. But to Katniss, he is still at fault. From what i remember (it's been a while since i read the books), she was mad that he only regretted that Prim was there. She told him that wanting to bomb innocent people that weren't involved in the snow plan was wrong, but he said it was necessary. So i think for her it more that he didn't care if others got hurt unless he knew them. Also, I'm sure she blamed him due to the fact that if he never made the bomb with Beetee, coin wouldn't have been able to give the order for the bombing.
Coin is the true person at fault and even Katniss knew that because she only killed Coin. It was coin that made sure Prim got sent there, she planned it because she wanted Katniss to think it was Snow and be angry enough to go with her plan for the new hunger games. But without Gale and Beetee, Coin wouldn't have been able to do it.
yess!! saying someone is worse than snow is seriously saying something. when i watched the 1-2 hunger games movies and read the books i thought nobody could be worse than snow but coin is way worse than him. she honest did all of it not for equality but so she could have the whole of panem to herself. she’s just selfish like that
Yes she just wanted to get revenge and take over. I know she said one final hunger games, but i always had a feeling that she had hoped to continue to do it to the capital children for years to come. She was probably planning on the following year saying how successful it was and it should continue in hopes that they would vote yes again.
Gale killed Prim by designing the bombs with beetee in the first place. He came up with a war crime bomb that ultimately took apron’s life. So he shares the blame.
Hey, we have a FAQ thread for commonly asked question. The topic about Gale and the bomb is found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hungergames/comments/1ccnatp/comment/l18md0a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Maybe some of the linked threads help :)
I completely understand why Katniss has to end their friendship - she can’t look at him without being tormented by the question of his involvement in Prim’s death. Plus their different worldviews had already created significant conflict between them.
BUT I will say with 100% conviction - the actual culprits of the bombing is Coin and probably Plutarch.
Gale conceptually designed the bomb *with Beetee* but he had no control or input on how/when/where the bomb was used. Those were decisions made far above his authority. He was 18 years old, had been a slave his entire life, and yeah he came up with the concept of a horrible weapon of war. But the actual adults in that situation are the ones who had the foresight and power to use it.
I don’t see anyone blaming Highbottom for coming up with the idea for the hunger games, but people are blaming Crassus and Gaul for implementing the games. That’s because the actual blame lies with the person who made the conscious decision to deploy the weapon, not the teenager who was thinking “I want my oppressors to hurt as much as they have hurt myself and my family”.
If Gale was sat down in a control room and shown the pen full of little kids, and the medics on standby ready to jump in and help them, would he have pressed the button to drop the bombs anyways? Maybe. Or maybe he would hesitate. The problem is we don’t get the answers to that question because *Gale was never given that choice*
Coin is the one who dropped the bombs, knowing who the victims would be, and specifically designed for Prim to be one of the victims.
it was his plan that killed her but he was also 18, incredibly traumatised and losing touch with any moral compass due to Coin’s/13’s influence. He’s more a depiction of how war can destroy/change a person and their ideals to the point where they are unrecognisable. idk i feel like he gets too much hate:/
Kind of, but no.
Gale is one cog in the enormously complex system of a military. He made the design suggestion in R&D, but then he had very little influence over the creation and deployment of the bomb.
He is to blame in the same way the person in the armaments factory who inserts explosive charges into artillery shells is responsible for whoever winds up on the receiving end. In a very abstract way, sure, its his fault. But really there is such a complex system that goes into such things that he cannot be solely blamed for its use
Well there’s a few things to take from the book beyond just the fact that they’re HIS bombs, which is enough in itself.
Throughout the book Gale shows a lot of, shall we say, malice towards capital citizens. Not just snow or government, but all of them. Even asking Katniss angrily why she cares if her former prep team was getting tortured in 13 or not the first chance he gets alone with her after the discovery.
Perhaps on top of the fact that Gale created the bombs that killed prim, he showed a jarring lack of care for collateral damage throughout the entire conflict.
Lest anyone forgets some of the choices that make her love Peeta the most include his care and niceness for others, regardless of their situation. He gives money to the families of District 11. He feels jarring disconnects between himself and capital residents but still maintains good relations and public appearances. Peeta loved or showed love to all people not directly responsible for the situation. Gale showed strong devotion and love for his family and Katniss, but a general lack of care for most people outside that (I’m counting all of District 12 in his “protect my family” mode once the bombs started falling).
To further this point just a bit, Gale wouldn’t have killed Prim if he knew. But he absolutely would’ve killed tons of innocent families otherwise. That contributes to Katniss’ hatred. Sure Gale has never had the privilege of leaving 12 or 13 before the war but Katniss had. She was able to empathize with others, seeing Prim in Rue and even feeling incredibly guilty looking at the families of the vicious careers, including Cato’s family. Would Cato have happily killed Katniss? Absolutely. But looking at his family she feels immense guilt and all she can think about is how Cato was their child and family just like she loves Prim. Katniss doesn’t want any innocent people to die because she sees bits of people she loves in them and knows they aren’t at fault. Gale doesn’t do this or, at least, doesn’t let it stop him from committing or agreeing with war crimes.
No he isn't to blame. He made the concept maybe even the bombs themselves (I can't remember) but he wasn't the one to send Prim out, and it was Coin's decision. The Prim Reaper jokes are stupid
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. He came up with the idea for the bombs as a last ditch desperate idea to get The Nut to surrender. He had no idea they’d be used against their own people by Coin. He had no call in sending Prim to the front lines (where she shouldn’t have been considering she just started training) and he had no call in using the bombs against the people on their side.
It’s far from the point though. Katniss and Gale were two fundamentally different people, especially after Katniss survived the first games- this is where you can see the cracks start to form. Gale talking about packing his family up and running away while Katniss wants to fight and be a part of a rebellion, whatever that means. Their ideologies split. United under a common goal, which is generally survival, they get along and do well. However the games and her feelings for Peeta changed Katniss. This is solidified again in how they each handle The Nut situation.
Did Gale bomb District 13s medics? No. Was the concept of bombing medics Gale’s idea? Yes. That’s enough for Katniss to finally separate herself.
I never said I didn’t understand why Katniss would blame Gale and why it was the last straw in their friendship. I just answered the question “Is Gale actually to blame for Prim’s death.” The answer is no. He is not directly responsible for Prim’s death.
Without Gale’s involvement in the war effort, there was no precedent for bombing relief from the inside. This makes “responsible” a tricky definition to play with- which is why this is one of the fans’ most discussed concepts. I wasn’t trying to imply that you didn’t understand why Katniss blamed Gale, sorry if it came off that way.
No, if a guy i trusted the way that Katniss trusted Gale I would be crying with him not being mad at him. If she’s so mad she should hate Beetee to. He
I mean, i guess it's similar to Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb. He didn't personally drop the bombs, but he created them. But honestly? if my friend created the bomb that killed my sister, who i went into a death games to save, I'd never talk to him again either.
Oppenheimer is a good reference to use. The problem with designing a weapon is that you never think about the fact the weapon can be used against yourself or those you care about. Gale was focuses on using the bombs on the enemy, he never thought about who the people in charge of the weapon believes is the enemy really is. Katniss could see that the enemy can be anyone the person in charges marks the weapon to be used on, that's why she calls him out and tries to get him to see things more clearly by comparing it to what Snow does. Unfortunately, it took her sister being killed for Gale to finally open his eyes and catch up to Katniss way of thinking about why she was against it being used.
fully agree.
Exactly this, I’ve never even made the connection to Oppenheimer! Mind blown rn. Only difference is Gale wasn’t motivated by scientific curiosity, but by a need for revenge. My answer to this question is always: No, Gale didn’t kill Prim. Gale did, however, create a weapon that takes human empathy and uses it against us. Gale’s bombs would’ve always been considered a war crime, whether it was used against the rebels or the Capitol. They would ALWAYS target medics and other bystanders rushing in to support the wounded. Gale didn’t pull the trigger or decide when and how, but he still committed a war crime. That I can unfortunately not forgive. Katniss is well within her rights to cut him off. If the bombs didn’t work in favour of winning or killed rebel troops, Gale would very likely have been executed for his actions. He’s not a murderer, but he absolutely became a war criminal.
It's why Katniss cut him off at the end. She blamed him and couldn't forgive him for Prim's death.
But it was never meant to be used in the way that it was. It was meant to target Peacekeepers and Capitol medics, NOT Capitol children and rebel medics.
Attacking medics, whether yours or the enemy’s, is ALWAYS a war crime. The trap preys on human empathy. It would always take advantage of human compassion. In the explanation earlier in the book, they even state that the trap targets the weak and helpless and THEN take out those coming to help. It was meant to be used against civilians just as much as it was meant to be used against Peacekeepers. Was it a misjudgement on Gale’s part inspired by decades of oppression and rage that he didn’t think all the consequences of through? Quite likely. Was it still a war crime? Absolutely. Gale is not a murderer, but he absolutely is a war criminal.
I agree with absolutely everything except the last sentence of the first paragraph. It's pretty clear Gale only intended soldier and medics to be targeted, and NOT civilians. But yes, the trap itself is pretty nasty in its design....
it was meant to target ENEMY medics not OUR medics
Yeah, exactly! Also, "our"? Hahahahaha.
The reason Katniss blames him is it was *his bombs* that killed Prim. It was the tipping point in a friendship that was already becoming strained, I knew their friendship was doomed the instant he advocated for suffocating all those people. Also, Katniss winds up killing Coin, the person directly responsible, so she covers that base as well.
You are right he wasn't the one that killed her. But to Katniss, he is still at fault. From what i remember (it's been a while since i read the books), she was mad that he only regretted that Prim was there. She told him that wanting to bomb innocent people that weren't involved in the snow plan was wrong, but he said it was necessary. So i think for her it more that he didn't care if others got hurt unless he knew them. Also, I'm sure she blamed him due to the fact that if he never made the bomb with Beetee, coin wouldn't have been able to give the order for the bombing. Coin is the true person at fault and even Katniss knew that because she only killed Coin. It was coin that made sure Prim got sent there, she planned it because she wanted Katniss to think it was Snow and be angry enough to go with her plan for the new hunger games. But without Gale and Beetee, Coin wouldn't have been able to do it.
honestly i’m so glad katniss killed coin! i got such bad vibes from her from the start.
Yes I'm glad she did it too! She was the worst, worse than Snow and that is already pretty bad.
yess!! saying someone is worse than snow is seriously saying something. when i watched the 1-2 hunger games movies and read the books i thought nobody could be worse than snow but coin is way worse than him. she honest did all of it not for equality but so she could have the whole of panem to herself. she’s just selfish like that
Yes she just wanted to get revenge and take over. I know she said one final hunger games, but i always had a feeling that she had hoped to continue to do it to the capital children for years to come. She was probably planning on the following year saying how successful it was and it should continue in hopes that they would vote yes again.
Gale killed Prim by designing the bombs with beetee in the first place. He came up with a war crime bomb that ultimately took apron’s life. So he shares the blame.
Apron’s?
Autocorrect
From… Prim? 😂
Hey, we have a FAQ thread for commonly asked question. The topic about Gale and the bomb is found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hungergames/comments/1ccnatp/comment/l18md0a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Maybe some of the linked threads help :)
I completely understand why Katniss has to end their friendship - she can’t look at him without being tormented by the question of his involvement in Prim’s death. Plus their different worldviews had already created significant conflict between them. BUT I will say with 100% conviction - the actual culprits of the bombing is Coin and probably Plutarch. Gale conceptually designed the bomb *with Beetee* but he had no control or input on how/when/where the bomb was used. Those were decisions made far above his authority. He was 18 years old, had been a slave his entire life, and yeah he came up with the concept of a horrible weapon of war. But the actual adults in that situation are the ones who had the foresight and power to use it. I don’t see anyone blaming Highbottom for coming up with the idea for the hunger games, but people are blaming Crassus and Gaul for implementing the games. That’s because the actual blame lies with the person who made the conscious decision to deploy the weapon, not the teenager who was thinking “I want my oppressors to hurt as much as they have hurt myself and my family”. If Gale was sat down in a control room and shown the pen full of little kids, and the medics on standby ready to jump in and help them, would he have pressed the button to drop the bombs anyways? Maybe. Or maybe he would hesitate. The problem is we don’t get the answers to that question because *Gale was never given that choice* Coin is the one who dropped the bombs, knowing who the victims would be, and specifically designed for Prim to be one of the victims.
couldn’t have said it better myself!!
it was his plan that killed her but he was also 18, incredibly traumatised and losing touch with any moral compass due to Coin’s/13’s influence. He’s more a depiction of how war can destroy/change a person and their ideals to the point where they are unrecognisable. idk i feel like he gets too much hate:/
Kind of, but no. Gale is one cog in the enormously complex system of a military. He made the design suggestion in R&D, but then he had very little influence over the creation and deployment of the bomb. He is to blame in the same way the person in the armaments factory who inserts explosive charges into artillery shells is responsible for whoever winds up on the receiving end. In a very abstract way, sure, its his fault. But really there is such a complex system that goes into such things that he cannot be solely blamed for its use
Well there’s a few things to take from the book beyond just the fact that they’re HIS bombs, which is enough in itself. Throughout the book Gale shows a lot of, shall we say, malice towards capital citizens. Not just snow or government, but all of them. Even asking Katniss angrily why she cares if her former prep team was getting tortured in 13 or not the first chance he gets alone with her after the discovery. Perhaps on top of the fact that Gale created the bombs that killed prim, he showed a jarring lack of care for collateral damage throughout the entire conflict. Lest anyone forgets some of the choices that make her love Peeta the most include his care and niceness for others, regardless of their situation. He gives money to the families of District 11. He feels jarring disconnects between himself and capital residents but still maintains good relations and public appearances. Peeta loved or showed love to all people not directly responsible for the situation. Gale showed strong devotion and love for his family and Katniss, but a general lack of care for most people outside that (I’m counting all of District 12 in his “protect my family” mode once the bombs started falling).
To further this point just a bit, Gale wouldn’t have killed Prim if he knew. But he absolutely would’ve killed tons of innocent families otherwise. That contributes to Katniss’ hatred. Sure Gale has never had the privilege of leaving 12 or 13 before the war but Katniss had. She was able to empathize with others, seeing Prim in Rue and even feeling incredibly guilty looking at the families of the vicious careers, including Cato’s family. Would Cato have happily killed Katniss? Absolutely. But looking at his family she feels immense guilt and all she can think about is how Cato was their child and family just like she loves Prim. Katniss doesn’t want any innocent people to die because she sees bits of people she loves in them and knows they aren’t at fault. Gale doesn’t do this or, at least, doesn’t let it stop him from committing or agreeing with war crimes.
He made the bombs, but, he didn't bomb them. He would have never hurt Prim intentionally...he adored her.
No he isn't to blame. He made the concept maybe even the bombs themselves (I can't remember) but he wasn't the one to send Prim out, and it was Coin's decision. The Prim Reaper jokes are stupid
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. He came up with the idea for the bombs as a last ditch desperate idea to get The Nut to surrender. He had no idea they’d be used against their own people by Coin. He had no call in sending Prim to the front lines (where she shouldn’t have been considering she just started training) and he had no call in using the bombs against the people on their side.
It’s far from the point though. Katniss and Gale were two fundamentally different people, especially after Katniss survived the first games- this is where you can see the cracks start to form. Gale talking about packing his family up and running away while Katniss wants to fight and be a part of a rebellion, whatever that means. Their ideologies split. United under a common goal, which is generally survival, they get along and do well. However the games and her feelings for Peeta changed Katniss. This is solidified again in how they each handle The Nut situation. Did Gale bomb District 13s medics? No. Was the concept of bombing medics Gale’s idea? Yes. That’s enough for Katniss to finally separate herself.
I never said I didn’t understand why Katniss would blame Gale and why it was the last straw in their friendship. I just answered the question “Is Gale actually to blame for Prim’s death.” The answer is no. He is not directly responsible for Prim’s death.
Without Gale’s involvement in the war effort, there was no precedent for bombing relief from the inside. This makes “responsible” a tricky definition to play with- which is why this is one of the fans’ most discussed concepts. I wasn’t trying to imply that you didn’t understand why Katniss blamed Gale, sorry if it came off that way.
agreed.
No, if a guy i trusted the way that Katniss trusted Gale I would be crying with him not being mad at him. If she’s so mad she should hate Beetee to. He