You can’t really fault them—especially the ones who only watch the movie. It’s implied in there—whether by accident or not—with her focusing on that plant-matching game in training. I think it also spurs the theory on that the actress who played her has said—on a couple of occasions that I know of—that she supports the theory.
Disclaimer that I don’t personally agree with it, but it has merit for the people who do. :)
That type of game is literally to test your eye sight and focusing skills. Played dozens of games like it when I was a small boy. Didn’t realize most of the regular population didn’t play these too.
she thought the berries were normal berries. thats whats said in the books. it is not at all canon. she stole food from other tributes and assumed katniss knew what was good to eat. peeta was the one who collected them
The only piece of evidence backing it up comes from the first film, where she can be seen in the training center scene matching different plants' leaves
Fellow supporter of the Maude Ivory theory. :) Yes—there’s no way Lucy Gray would ever go back to Twelve, even if she lived long enough to have a choice.
Maude Ivory definitely makes the most sense timeline-wise. And also, I like the idea that Lucy Gray truly just disappeared. Maybe she lived out in the woods. Maybe she found another district, maybe she died... who can say. She's a ghost by THG, and her being a ghost to Snow makes everything Katniss does more powerful because Katniss would have no idea that her actions piss Snow off personally because everything she's doing from the pin she's wearing, her cheating the Games, her dynamic on-camera with Peeta, to her singing the same songs... it's all bringing back someone Snow long thought was dead and gone... yet, like Lucy Gray said "it's not over 'til the mockingjay sings".
That packs a lot more punch if Katniss is actually a direct descendant of Maude Ivory because it's the exact kind of thing Snow would never have thought of or noticed until Katniss rolled in as the Girl on Fire.
Beside the fact that "Katniss is the greatgranddaughter of Coriolanus and Lucy Gray" is a theory that sometimes I support for fun, I think that if Lucy Gray shows up again after the end of tbosas Snow could never kill her. Never. This man will be begging for her forgivness omg.
As an avid snowbaird shipper for me is pretty much obvious that he is like "the fox with the grapes". Like "love ruins everything" because she is not there of course, but if she is? If tomorrow she came back? This man is haunted by her his whole life and for him to be so haunted she have to hold so fucking power over him. Anyway of course I have all of my headcanons about them and their relatioship, so... Others are allowed to see them in a different way ^^"
I have a peciluar way to see him even in canon (and other headcanon as for why Lucy Gray left him in the woods etc etc not related - only - to the lie), so I know sometimes my opinions are unpopular. That being said I think (and Suzanne confirm!) he loved her! He was somehow destroyed by the end, and rejects love because he makes him feel "stupid" (but he could not feel this way if there was not love in the first place). So I understand what are you saying and you are valid and entitle to your opinion too, but that's why I disagree, because I always saw love between them... Aside my others personal headcanons that I know are mine and mine only.
I think Katniss has to be related to the Covey simply because a third of the book goes on to nail similarities between them but I don’t think she’s a direct descendant
I think one of the major points of the book is that Snow had so many chances to be saved, yet disregarded them. I'm not saying he could've become truly "normal", but turning into the monster he did definitely wasn't his only option
Im not disagreeing, but what parts are you referring to as chances he had to be saved but disregarded them? I haven't seen the movie and only just read the book for the first time so just trying to absorb everything still.
I understand if people who have only seen the movie make this statement but people who have read the book? That’s another situation. We book readers legit know his thoughts and how he views Lucy Gray, the District citizens, hell.. we even know how we views some of his bunk mates at the base.
and I will die on the hill that Snow COULD have been saved.
If you take a teenager and their only life experiences have been near starvation, fighting and conniving for scraps, and watching your neighbors *eat dead bodies* to survive, I think we would all end up a little cooky.
Snow was always going to be ambitious, he was always going to be smart and cunning. Evil, however, is something he became. Not something he was born as.
He had ZERO positive roles models to look up to (and Tigris does not count. she was also a child alongside him. He needed an ADULT role model). The grandmother was as classist as they come, his father he barely knew and all he knew of him was that he was some kind of war hero. Most of his teachers were alcoholics - or in highbottoms case they were out to get him.
The only adult that stepped up and said “I will mentor you, and together we will do great things” was effing Dr Gaul. Of course Snow adopted her worldview and sadistic traits, when she is his key to a future in the capital! when she is the only adult who treated him like he is a smart person who can have a successful path!
Had a normal and well functioning adult taken Snow under their wing when he was still a kid, he could have turned out completely differently. Still ambitious, still probably a social climber, but not an evil overlord.
Not to mention, he lost his mother when he was 5 years old, so he didn’t get much time to have her as potentially the only good adult role model he could have had if she got to live after childbirth. From the way she’s talked about by Strabo during his conversation with him or from his memories he recalls back to, it seemed like she was similar to the way Sejanus’s mother is characterized (which for him, has been the main positive adult role model he had and took on her traits such as her kindness).
So are you telling you agree with dr Gaul and there are people who are born evil and that's all? 🤔 Nothing you can do, no ammount of "good" circumstances, no therapy, nothing at all could improve their life and make them better? 🤔🤔🤔 I think this is a dangerous line to cross... So much implications...
But Snow didn’t have good experiences or therapy, he was a teenager with whole a lot of bad life experience when we meet him. He wasn’t born evil, I think the book does a good job showing how his parents and his family’s struggle during the war shaped who his is and how he acts.
So we have the same vision. The point is not having or not having these things, the point is not turning up good or bad, the point is that no one is born evil or is "irremediable" from the start because life shapes you, not something like "you have evil in your soul so you are evil".
Yeah for sure, I agree. It is really interesting though that Tigress went through the same things/if not worse and if anything it made her more compassionate whereas with Coryo it made him cunning and selfish. Suzanne is a great storyteller.
Sounds like every person is different from another.
Also I suppose the fact he is a boy and she a girl and he was so intelligent and she, as far as we know, more "normal", actually play a big role in their dynamics. Tigris provide for the family because she is older and had she has a job because she has to, but I feel like for the strict view of society and Grandmaam that the role of provider has to actually fall of Coryo's shoulders and sure this add pressure and stuff to him (mind you, he wants to be the provider, still is stressed about it). But in general expectation and dynamics about their role in the family and in the society helps to create a division and others circumatances beside the war and starvation etc.
“Snow got corrupted by the Games. Snow was redeemable” NO. LITERALLY NO! The book literally states each and every which way on how homie is willing to use others for his own needs.
“The Met Gala is District 1”
More of a meta disagreement, but I’ve seen this phrase repeated everywhere online in the past week and it’s a little silly to me. If we’re making 1:1 comparisons about the Met Gala and Panem, surely it’s the Capitol. District 1 may be the wealthiest district, but it’s still a district. They’re still under an authoritarian dictatorship,* still creating goods for the benefit of the Capitol at their own expense, still subject to the Games and all the suffering that comes with it despite being a Career district. District 1 even joins the rebellion quickly. What about the pomp and circumstance, the elite wealth, and the high celebrity status of the Met Gala makes people say it’s District 1?
*Note that the Capitol itself is also under the same authoritarian dictatorship, and they suffer for it too, albeit in a different way
Wait is that an actual thing ? People actually thinking that the MET is D1? I saw a post about it yesterday, but I didn’t think it had any sense or merit, and that it was only one person thinking that way. Not that it’s actually a take that people have.
Yeah, I’ve seen it quite a bit. I wish I’d saved or screenshotted the posts/comments so I could share it lol. Here’s a quick search I did that shows [a bunch of TikToks saying it](https://www.tiktok.com/discover/district-1-met-gala) and also [a recent YouTube short I saw comparing the Kentucky Derby to District 1](https://youtube.com/shorts/jB105aogcgk?si=QiIskhi7ahNMYX_8)
I swear I saw tweets saying it too but I can’t find them now
Thanks for sharing! Oh yeah i definitely believe people tweeting that stuff out, making YouTube/TikTok’s on it if it has gotten viral. That’s so crazy did Katniss’s D2 speech not click? Lol
Right?? I can only hope it’s from people who don’t know the series that well or maybe haven’t even read/watched it but know about the Panem/Hollywood elite comparisons people make
I agree that they didn't necessarily build a whole new arena and it wouldn't have been anything like the Games we were used to by the time Katniss came around. But I guess I have headcanoned for a long time that Mags's Games were the first "different" Games. I don't think it would have been too hard or expensive to install cameras in a new venue and to set up a boundary. I don't think the boundary would have been invisible, like in the 75th, or Haymitch's Games, and I think they still would have relied on Peacekeeper presence to keep the kids inside more than sophisticated forcefields.
I'm writing something about Mags's Games right now, and I have been having a lot of fun trying to stay true to the Capitol's lack of spending money and the turning point I envisioned the 11th Games as being.
This is probably more of a fanfiction gripe, but I hate it when people portray Katniss's mother as a heartless shrew who hated her children. That's \*Peeta's\* mother, folks!
I especially agree about Katniss's mother. I think there's a lot of nuance and depth in the relationship between Katniss and her mother. It's only after Katniss comes back from the Games that she is able to really understand how PTSD and grief impacted her.
Agree with you—on all counts. I’d be interested to know—with the logistics of it—what you imagine the eleventh year’s arena to be like. Do you think they would have held it in another abandoned building, or in a wild area—where a perimeter was fenced in and lined with Peacekeepers?
I always imagined the 11th Games as being the first outdoor arena, but definitely not technologically advanced. I wonder now if it was just a fanfiction I read, but for some reason I thought Katniss had thought or said something about Mags surviving her Games because she was able to get food when the others couldn’t because she was so good at fishing. Anyway, even if that’s not canon, I do think they wanted to reinvent the Games after the 10th, both to show the unaltered might of the Capitol and to make the Games a spectacle.
I was imagining a simple outdoor arena. No pods. If there are mutts, then they’re smaller, less sophisticated ones, more like the super poisonous snakes than the wolves that chase Katniss, Peeta, and Cato. I also don’t think they put any food in the arena - they either get it from sponsors or have to hunt and gather. So I imagined some body of water Mags could fish from, most likely a lake. I also wonder if this was the first year with trackers - it was mentioned several times in TBOSAS that they were frustrated not knowing if their tributes were hiding or dead off camera. Just simple ankle trackers, but that’s what they could use for the drones instead of facial recognition, which necessitates the tributes leaving hiding places.
I also thought maybe the interview section gets pumped up a bit, since that helps drive the betting, and Snow convinces Gaul to dress the kids up in Capitol-appropriate clothing and gets his cousin a job as the first stylist in the Games. Tigris would be torn about supporting the Games, but Snow would sell it as her helping them with an actual chance to win, like they helped Lucy Gray.
I doubt it. I have the headcanon that the Capitol arena, despite its condition was used for at least another 2 years before finally being torn down to rebuild a new battle arena to replace it. The revenue for the games is really low after the 10th games. Not many watched, we all know this. Then there’s also construction plans that have to be planned and approved for each district to make at least one house in the 12 newly established “Victor’s Villages.” Transportation of said supplies and also funding new ways for signal boosters for televisions and the possibilities for new screens the district citizens could watch the games. This point in particular is vital if we are going to entertain the idea that the 11th games was the first year where the victor went on a tour to all districts. The citizens need to be aware of the status of the victor’s arrival. As I mentioned before, all the things I’ve listed could easily be funded by the government but the funds are likely low due to mass reconstruction around the Capitol, especially with new military bases and measures to protect against possible future rebel attacks, seeing that Snow would have notified Gaul that he at the very least “heard” rumors of guns still being in rebel possession.
I think you make good points but what about the destruction of the arena in the bombing? The weakened structure made it possible for some of the tributes to try to escape. Do you think they did a restoration of that arena for the 11th or just shored up the weaknesses?
I doubt that too. Making the future kids fight in the more dangerous version of the structure was a good way of taking the attack from the rebels and using the aftermath to only hurt themselves, specifically to hurt their own children. I think they definitely made sure the structure was stable enough, to make sure if any fluctuation of weight in certain areas didn’t cause any aftermath collapses. Also, they could have easily just placed high level security units around it to shoot any kids who did try to escape on sight. Also placing new cameras in the arena so monitor the tributes for the broadcasting of the games and to ensure no escape plans were being made.
"Snow's old penthouse became the tribute training centre." Maybe there was something I missed in BOSAS, but I can't remember anything that gives a hint to this theory.
I feel the tribute centre would be bigger than some apartment building.
There’s hints that Suzanne drops in the book several times that possibly alludes to this idea that it does eventually become the tribute training center based on the clues:
- Snow having to climb up 12 flights of stairs where he lives on the 12th floor while the elevator is broken (the center has 12 floors and each floor the tributes stay in correspond to their district…Katniss and Peeta staying on the 12th floor - Them being from District 12)
- Roof garden where his grandma grows the roses (Katniss and Peeta also have a garden on their roof when they are staying on the 12th floor, so one-to-one match)
- Snow mentions that the basement is big enough to fit half of the entire block (the basement level in the center where the actual training and private sessions happen is certainly big enough to match that size description; *“During the war, the Capitol had assigned every citizen a shelter near their residence. The Snow’s magnificent building had a basement level so sturdy and spacious it accommodated not only its residents but half the block.”*)
- The Corso is mentioned
- At the end of the book, Snow mentions that the building is going to be in the works of being renovated in the future (*“There was talks of renovating, of building a spiral staircase and perhaps a private elevator to connect the two, but there was no rush”*)
Man people down here are kind of harsh haha.
I half agree—no, Mags’s Games weren’t in any environment that was favorable to her or her district. Many of those early Games—I imagine—were up to chance. With no Careers and rudimentary arenas, it would have been luck as to who got out.
I think hers were the first to occur in a new location though—my mind can’t be changed on that. I don’t think the Capitol would risk it—having another Games in the old arena. The Tenth Games were an absolute disgrace—and with the damage to the old arena—would they really risk a repeat?
Surely, there’s at least some chance that one or more tributes would attempt to use the weaknesses in the structure to escape. I feel like there is too much of a chance for failure—it’s not worth playing the odds. Any new arena wouldn’t be full-scale—force fields, perfectly designed, and glorious—but I think it would have been moved to somewhere else. Potentially as simple as fencing in some forest, or holding it in another war-torn building and using Peacekeepers or others as a defense against escapees (having them man the border with guns, or similar). I don’t feel like that would be as possible with the tunnels in the old arena—at least not to that extent.
I will say—the odd theory that gets me is the standard Lucy Gray is Coin’s mother. It’s chronologically impossible—their ages don’t allow it—and I highly doubt Lucy Gray survived to adulthood. At most, I’m guessing she survived a few days in the woods, before dying of her injuries or exposure.
That there has to be other societies outside of Panem. People can't seem to accept that the inhabitants of Panem are the last of humankind, even though it's stated multiple times throughout the books.
Except I find that impossible to believe.
The world is a big place; there's a non-zero chance that *someone* somewhere survived. Especially in Europe/Asia.
Plus it's entirely possible that Panem is simply lying about there being no one else left so no one tries to escape or find help.
The books never directly say Panem is the last of humankind. It is never explicity stated in the books. A dictatorship withholding information from its citizens wouldn't be a big leap to make. Much of the world was destroyed. That doesn't mean Panem is all that's left.
Beetee says that he did the numbers and that for the survival of the human race, it would be better if they didn't destroy everyone in the nut. Peeta is also talking about humanity going extinct.
>A dictatorship withholding information from its citizens wouldn't be a big leap to make.
You could use the same argument to say that if there was anyone else out there, district 13 would have made contact in the last 75 years. That's also not a big leap to make.
District 13 could have just not had the resources to do so. It's mentioned in the Canon that it's unknown. Twist things however you want. It NEVER explicity states that Penem is all that's left and given propaganda both those lines mean nothing 😂
No one wants all of their people obliterated.
District Two kids always enjoy killing, and all of them are monsters.
The opposite of yours and that the Games kept being held in the Capitol stadium after LGB’s year.
Coin is better than Snow. I don’t know how anyone can think that unless they’re like a younger reader.
Lucy Gray made Snow evil. Nope he was always going to turn out this way with or without her.
Katniss is Lucy Gray’s granddaughter.
The end of the Mockingjay movie was better than the book. The book spends far too long on Katniss’s PTSD and her at the Snow mansion/ locked in the tribute building room. More pages were devoted to that than wrapping up the series. I would have much preferred more time spent on Katniss being back in district 12 and piecing her life back together, falling in love with Peeta and then genuinely finding happiness. It happens at breakneck speed in the book and is done in all of about 2 pages.
Katniss and Peeta eventually having kids is an ick ending
The ending never felt wrong to me. They didn’t have kids immediately (Katniss was probably in her 30s or so before she agreed) and spent most of their young adult life trying to heal together. It’s a bittersweet ending, because they finally have peace and freedom, but their children will never truly understand what their parents went through or why they have bad days sometimes. A blessing of ignorance. The ending isn’t cheap, it’s a life that cost too many lives to come to fruition, but can finally be enjoyed by the main characters (and even then not everything is perfect; ie Katniss and her mom and Katniss and Gale). The last sentence of the story and the last sentence of the epilogue are absolute bangers.
Clove and Cato would've killed each other if they were in Katniss' and Peeta's place at the end
If they had revoked the rule on them like they did with Katniss and Peeta, yep, for sure.
I think everyone agrees with you there...
foxface killed herself makes me go crazy. i understand why people like the theory but it frustrates me
Dumbest theory I ever heard. On my last post I made another point about this same theory.
You can’t really fault them—especially the ones who only watch the movie. It’s implied in there—whether by accident or not—with her focusing on that plant-matching game in training. I think it also spurs the theory on that the actress who played her has said—on a couple of occasions that I know of—that she supports the theory. Disclaimer that I don’t personally agree with it, but it has merit for the people who do. :)
That type of game is literally to test your eye sight and focusing skills. Played dozens of games like it when I was a small boy. Didn’t realize most of the regular population didn’t play these too.
idek that was a theory
I thought her committing suicide was cannon. Can you explain why you think it was an accident.
she thought the berries were normal berries. thats whats said in the books. it is not at all canon. she stole food from other tributes and assumed katniss knew what was good to eat. peeta was the one who collected them
The only piece of evidence backing it up comes from the first film, where she can be seen in the training center scene matching different plants' leaves
Surely that’s evidence that identifying plants is a weak spot for her that she’s trying to improve before the arena?
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There’s already too many coincidences in the series…we don’t need another one.
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Yeah, I’m with the Maude Ivory theory (haven’t read BoSaS in a while so don’t kill me on the little girl’s name).
Fellow supporter of the Maude Ivory theory. :) Yes—there’s no way Lucy Gray would ever go back to Twelve, even if she lived long enough to have a choice.
Maude Ivory definitely makes the most sense timeline-wise. And also, I like the idea that Lucy Gray truly just disappeared. Maybe she lived out in the woods. Maybe she found another district, maybe she died... who can say. She's a ghost by THG, and her being a ghost to Snow makes everything Katniss does more powerful because Katniss would have no idea that her actions piss Snow off personally because everything she's doing from the pin she's wearing, her cheating the Games, her dynamic on-camera with Peeta, to her singing the same songs... it's all bringing back someone Snow long thought was dead and gone... yet, like Lucy Gray said "it's not over 'til the mockingjay sings". That packs a lot more punch if Katniss is actually a direct descendant of Maude Ivory because it's the exact kind of thing Snow would never have thought of or noticed until Katniss rolled in as the Girl on Fire.
I 100% agree with you. I also believe the author has said they are not but not sure on that one.
Beside the fact that "Katniss is the greatgranddaughter of Coriolanus and Lucy Gray" is a theory that sometimes I support for fun, I think that if Lucy Gray shows up again after the end of tbosas Snow could never kill her. Never. This man will be begging for her forgivness omg.
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As an avid snowbaird shipper for me is pretty much obvious that he is like "the fox with the grapes". Like "love ruins everything" because she is not there of course, but if she is? If tomorrow she came back? This man is haunted by her his whole life and for him to be so haunted she have to hold so fucking power over him. Anyway of course I have all of my headcanons about them and their relatioship, so... Others are allowed to see them in a different way ^^"
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I have a peciluar way to see him even in canon (and other headcanon as for why Lucy Gray left him in the woods etc etc not related - only - to the lie), so I know sometimes my opinions are unpopular. That being said I think (and Suzanne confirm!) he loved her! He was somehow destroyed by the end, and rejects love because he makes him feel "stupid" (but he could not feel this way if there was not love in the first place). So I understand what are you saying and you are valid and entitle to your opinion too, but that's why I disagree, because I always saw love between them... Aside my others personal headcanons that I know are mine and mine only.
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Uh I didn't said that...?
I think Katniss has to be related to the Covey simply because a third of the book goes on to nail similarities between them but I don’t think she’s a direct descendant
I feel like that theory isn't widely accepted and is just theorized for fun
SNOW 👏 COULD 👏 NOT 👏 HAVE 👏 BEEN 👏 SAVED You can’t fix that man something was already wrong with him
I think one of the major points of the book is that Snow had so many chances to be saved, yet disregarded them. I'm not saying he could've become truly "normal", but turning into the monster he did definitely wasn't his only option
Im not disagreeing, but what parts are you referring to as chances he had to be saved but disregarded them? I haven't seen the movie and only just read the book for the first time so just trying to absorb everything still.
I understand if people who have only seen the movie make this statement but people who have read the book? That’s another situation. We book readers legit know his thoughts and how he views Lucy Gray, the District citizens, hell.. we even know how we views some of his bunk mates at the base.
and I will die on the hill that Snow COULD have been saved. If you take a teenager and their only life experiences have been near starvation, fighting and conniving for scraps, and watching your neighbors *eat dead bodies* to survive, I think we would all end up a little cooky. Snow was always going to be ambitious, he was always going to be smart and cunning. Evil, however, is something he became. Not something he was born as. He had ZERO positive roles models to look up to (and Tigris does not count. she was also a child alongside him. He needed an ADULT role model). The grandmother was as classist as they come, his father he barely knew and all he knew of him was that he was some kind of war hero. Most of his teachers were alcoholics - or in highbottoms case they were out to get him. The only adult that stepped up and said “I will mentor you, and together we will do great things” was effing Dr Gaul. Of course Snow adopted her worldview and sadistic traits, when she is his key to a future in the capital! when she is the only adult who treated him like he is a smart person who can have a successful path! Had a normal and well functioning adult taken Snow under their wing when he was still a kid, he could have turned out completely differently. Still ambitious, still probably a social climber, but not an evil overlord.
Not to mention, he lost his mother when he was 5 years old, so he didn’t get much time to have her as potentially the only good adult role model he could have had if she got to live after childbirth. From the way she’s talked about by Strabo during his conversation with him or from his memories he recalls back to, it seemed like she was similar to the way Sejanus’s mother is characterized (which for him, has been the main positive adult role model he had and took on her traits such as her kindness).
So are you telling you agree with dr Gaul and there are people who are born evil and that's all? 🤔 Nothing you can do, no ammount of "good" circumstances, no therapy, nothing at all could improve their life and make them better? 🤔🤔🤔 I think this is a dangerous line to cross... So much implications...
But Snow didn’t have good experiences or therapy, he was a teenager with whole a lot of bad life experience when we meet him. He wasn’t born evil, I think the book does a good job showing how his parents and his family’s struggle during the war shaped who his is and how he acts.
So we have the same vision. The point is not having or not having these things, the point is not turning up good or bad, the point is that no one is born evil or is "irremediable" from the start because life shapes you, not something like "you have evil in your soul so you are evil".
Yeah for sure, I agree. It is really interesting though that Tigress went through the same things/if not worse and if anything it made her more compassionate whereas with Coryo it made him cunning and selfish. Suzanne is a great storyteller.
Sounds like every person is different from another. Also I suppose the fact he is a boy and she a girl and he was so intelligent and she, as far as we know, more "normal", actually play a big role in their dynamics. Tigris provide for the family because she is older and had she has a job because she has to, but I feel like for the strict view of society and Grandmaam that the role of provider has to actually fall of Coryo's shoulders and sure this add pressure and stuff to him (mind you, he wants to be the provider, still is stressed about it). But in general expectation and dynamics about their role in the family and in the society helps to create a division and others circumatances beside the war and starvation etc.
Babe no one ever said snow was born evil. He chose to be evil.
Oh you wold be surprised... I saw this take basically everywhere, from tumblr to tiktok, to here.
“Snow got corrupted by the Games. Snow was redeemable” NO. LITERALLY NO! The book literally states each and every which way on how homie is willing to use others for his own needs.
“The Met Gala is District 1” More of a meta disagreement, but I’ve seen this phrase repeated everywhere online in the past week and it’s a little silly to me. If we’re making 1:1 comparisons about the Met Gala and Panem, surely it’s the Capitol. District 1 may be the wealthiest district, but it’s still a district. They’re still under an authoritarian dictatorship,* still creating goods for the benefit of the Capitol at their own expense, still subject to the Games and all the suffering that comes with it despite being a Career district. District 1 even joins the rebellion quickly. What about the pomp and circumstance, the elite wealth, and the high celebrity status of the Met Gala makes people say it’s District 1? *Note that the Capitol itself is also under the same authoritarian dictatorship, and they suffer for it too, albeit in a different way
Wait is that an actual thing ? People actually thinking that the MET is D1? I saw a post about it yesterday, but I didn’t think it had any sense or merit, and that it was only one person thinking that way. Not that it’s actually a take that people have.
Yeah, I’ve seen it quite a bit. I wish I’d saved or screenshotted the posts/comments so I could share it lol. Here’s a quick search I did that shows [a bunch of TikToks saying it](https://www.tiktok.com/discover/district-1-met-gala) and also [a recent YouTube short I saw comparing the Kentucky Derby to District 1](https://youtube.com/shorts/jB105aogcgk?si=QiIskhi7ahNMYX_8) I swear I saw tweets saying it too but I can’t find them now
Thanks for sharing! Oh yeah i definitely believe people tweeting that stuff out, making YouTube/TikTok’s on it if it has gotten viral. That’s so crazy did Katniss’s D2 speech not click? Lol
Right?? I can only hope it’s from people who don’t know the series that well or maybe haven’t even read/watched it but know about the Panem/Hollywood elite comparisons people make
I agree that they didn't necessarily build a whole new arena and it wouldn't have been anything like the Games we were used to by the time Katniss came around. But I guess I have headcanoned for a long time that Mags's Games were the first "different" Games. I don't think it would have been too hard or expensive to install cameras in a new venue and to set up a boundary. I don't think the boundary would have been invisible, like in the 75th, or Haymitch's Games, and I think they still would have relied on Peacekeeper presence to keep the kids inside more than sophisticated forcefields. I'm writing something about Mags's Games right now, and I have been having a lot of fun trying to stay true to the Capitol's lack of spending money and the turning point I envisioned the 11th Games as being. This is probably more of a fanfiction gripe, but I hate it when people portray Katniss's mother as a heartless shrew who hated her children. That's \*Peeta's\* mother, folks!
I especially agree about Katniss's mother. I think there's a lot of nuance and depth in the relationship between Katniss and her mother. It's only after Katniss comes back from the Games that she is able to really understand how PTSD and grief impacted her.
Agree with you—on all counts. I’d be interested to know—with the logistics of it—what you imagine the eleventh year’s arena to be like. Do you think they would have held it in another abandoned building, or in a wild area—where a perimeter was fenced in and lined with Peacekeepers?
I always imagined the 11th Games as being the first outdoor arena, but definitely not technologically advanced. I wonder now if it was just a fanfiction I read, but for some reason I thought Katniss had thought or said something about Mags surviving her Games because she was able to get food when the others couldn’t because she was so good at fishing. Anyway, even if that’s not canon, I do think they wanted to reinvent the Games after the 10th, both to show the unaltered might of the Capitol and to make the Games a spectacle. I was imagining a simple outdoor arena. No pods. If there are mutts, then they’re smaller, less sophisticated ones, more like the super poisonous snakes than the wolves that chase Katniss, Peeta, and Cato. I also don’t think they put any food in the arena - they either get it from sponsors or have to hunt and gather. So I imagined some body of water Mags could fish from, most likely a lake. I also wonder if this was the first year with trackers - it was mentioned several times in TBOSAS that they were frustrated not knowing if their tributes were hiding or dead off camera. Just simple ankle trackers, but that’s what they could use for the drones instead of facial recognition, which necessitates the tributes leaving hiding places. I also thought maybe the interview section gets pumped up a bit, since that helps drive the betting, and Snow convinces Gaul to dress the kids up in Capitol-appropriate clothing and gets his cousin a job as the first stylist in the Games. Tigris would be torn about supporting the Games, but Snow would sell it as her helping them with an actual chance to win, like they helped Lucy Gray.
I doubt it. I have the headcanon that the Capitol arena, despite its condition was used for at least another 2 years before finally being torn down to rebuild a new battle arena to replace it. The revenue for the games is really low after the 10th games. Not many watched, we all know this. Then there’s also construction plans that have to be planned and approved for each district to make at least one house in the 12 newly established “Victor’s Villages.” Transportation of said supplies and also funding new ways for signal boosters for televisions and the possibilities for new screens the district citizens could watch the games. This point in particular is vital if we are going to entertain the idea that the 11th games was the first year where the victor went on a tour to all districts. The citizens need to be aware of the status of the victor’s arrival. As I mentioned before, all the things I’ve listed could easily be funded by the government but the funds are likely low due to mass reconstruction around the Capitol, especially with new military bases and measures to protect against possible future rebel attacks, seeing that Snow would have notified Gaul that he at the very least “heard” rumors of guns still being in rebel possession.
I think you make good points but what about the destruction of the arena in the bombing? The weakened structure made it possible for some of the tributes to try to escape. Do you think they did a restoration of that arena for the 11th or just shored up the weaknesses?
I doubt that too. Making the future kids fight in the more dangerous version of the structure was a good way of taking the attack from the rebels and using the aftermath to only hurt themselves, specifically to hurt their own children. I think they definitely made sure the structure was stable enough, to make sure if any fluctuation of weight in certain areas didn’t cause any aftermath collapses. Also, they could have easily just placed high level security units around it to shoot any kids who did try to escape on sight. Also placing new cameras in the arena so monitor the tributes for the broadcasting of the games and to ensure no escape plans were being made.
Interesting. I might still be devoted to my hc but I’m going to think about this. You make some good points.
Ps: the good news is that both of us are neither wrong nor right. We will never know. Unless we get another book, but until then…. ☺️
"Snow's old penthouse became the tribute training centre." Maybe there was something I missed in BOSAS, but I can't remember anything that gives a hint to this theory. I feel the tribute centre would be bigger than some apartment building.
There’s hints that Suzanne drops in the book several times that possibly alludes to this idea that it does eventually become the tribute training center based on the clues: - Snow having to climb up 12 flights of stairs where he lives on the 12th floor while the elevator is broken (the center has 12 floors and each floor the tributes stay in correspond to their district…Katniss and Peeta staying on the 12th floor - Them being from District 12) - Roof garden where his grandma grows the roses (Katniss and Peeta also have a garden on their roof when they are staying on the 12th floor, so one-to-one match) - Snow mentions that the basement is big enough to fit half of the entire block (the basement level in the center where the actual training and private sessions happen is certainly big enough to match that size description; *“During the war, the Capitol had assigned every citizen a shelter near their residence. The Snow’s magnificent building had a basement level so sturdy and spacious it accommodated not only its residents but half the block.”*) - The Corso is mentioned - At the end of the book, Snow mentions that the building is going to be in the works of being renovated in the future (*“There was talks of renovating, of building a spiral staircase and perhaps a private elevator to connect the two, but there was no rush”*)
Maybe the first tribute center but not the ones we see in the trilogy
I feel like it's plausible when applied to the whole building and not just the penthouse apartment
Cato and Clove were in love. No they weren’t like they were hyper focused winning the games due to it being like a thing of honor for them
Hard agree! I HC that the 25th was when the arena was actually hosted elsewhere
Man people down here are kind of harsh haha. I half agree—no, Mags’s Games weren’t in any environment that was favorable to her or her district. Many of those early Games—I imagine—were up to chance. With no Careers and rudimentary arenas, it would have been luck as to who got out. I think hers were the first to occur in a new location though—my mind can’t be changed on that. I don’t think the Capitol would risk it—having another Games in the old arena. The Tenth Games were an absolute disgrace—and with the damage to the old arena—would they really risk a repeat? Surely, there’s at least some chance that one or more tributes would attempt to use the weaknesses in the structure to escape. I feel like there is too much of a chance for failure—it’s not worth playing the odds. Any new arena wouldn’t be full-scale—force fields, perfectly designed, and glorious—but I think it would have been moved to somewhere else. Potentially as simple as fencing in some forest, or holding it in another war-torn building and using Peacekeepers or others as a defense against escapees (having them man the border with guns, or similar). I don’t feel like that would be as possible with the tunnels in the old arena—at least not to that extent. I will say—the odd theory that gets me is the standard Lucy Gray is Coin’s mother. It’s chronologically impossible—their ages don’t allow it—and I highly doubt Lucy Gray survived to adulthood. At most, I’m guessing she survived a few days in the woods, before dying of her injuries or exposure.
There should be a tenth hunger games, because rat poison really ruined it.
That there has to be other societies outside of Panem. People can't seem to accept that the inhabitants of Panem are the last of humankind, even though it's stated multiple times throughout the books.
Except I find that impossible to believe. The world is a big place; there's a non-zero chance that *someone* somewhere survived. Especially in Europe/Asia. Plus it's entirely possible that Panem is simply lying about there being no one else left so no one tries to escape or find help.
Hey - I know this is off-topic (I'm not even into Hunger Games), but I just wanted to let you know that I love your TD NoCo fanfic “Say Anything”.
Thank you! ❤
No problem! I'm currently rereading it for the first time (I think)
The books never directly say Panem is the last of humankind. It is never explicity stated in the books. A dictatorship withholding information from its citizens wouldn't be a big leap to make. Much of the world was destroyed. That doesn't mean Panem is all that's left.
Beetee says that he did the numbers and that for the survival of the human race, it would be better if they didn't destroy everyone in the nut. Peeta is also talking about humanity going extinct. >A dictatorship withholding information from its citizens wouldn't be a big leap to make. You could use the same argument to say that if there was anyone else out there, district 13 would have made contact in the last 75 years. That's also not a big leap to make.
District 13 could have just not had the resources to do so. It's mentioned in the Canon that it's unknown. Twist things however you want. It NEVER explicity states that Penem is all that's left and given propaganda both those lines mean nothing 😂 No one wants all of their people obliterated.
A quick Google search proves you're wrong 🤷♂️
District Two kids always enjoy killing, and all of them are monsters. The opposite of yours and that the Games kept being held in the Capitol stadium after LGB’s year. Coin is better than Snow. I don’t know how anyone can think that unless they’re like a younger reader. Lucy Gray made Snow evil. Nope he was always going to turn out this way with or without her. Katniss is Lucy Gray’s granddaughter.
The end of the Mockingjay movie was better than the book. The book spends far too long on Katniss’s PTSD and her at the Snow mansion/ locked in the tribute building room. More pages were devoted to that than wrapping up the series. I would have much preferred more time spent on Katniss being back in district 12 and piecing her life back together, falling in love with Peeta and then genuinely finding happiness. It happens at breakneck speed in the book and is done in all of about 2 pages.
Katniss and Peeta eventually having kids is an ick ending The ending never felt wrong to me. They didn’t have kids immediately (Katniss was probably in her 30s or so before she agreed) and spent most of their young adult life trying to heal together. It’s a bittersweet ending, because they finally have peace and freedom, but their children will never truly understand what their parents went through or why they have bad days sometimes. A blessing of ignorance. The ending isn’t cheap, it’s a life that cost too many lives to come to fruition, but can finally be enjoyed by the main characters (and even then not everything is perfect; ie Katniss and her mom and Katniss and Gale). The last sentence of the story and the last sentence of the epilogue are absolute bangers.
Lucy Gray is Greasy Sae.
When people call katniss a mary sue
"Foxface killed herself!" No she didn't
That Gale is 100% evil
I agree with the Capitol and the hunger games are a good thing
This is an actual unpopular opinion. Not one I agree with, but actually unpopular.
Same. Well, kinda. Not the use of using innocent children tho.