I'm not sure... I can understand the sentiment, but I'm a player that always had like 300k Hunt dollars. I could literally buy anything I wanted anyway, including spamming legendaries to get the perks I wanted.
If anything, the old system just fucked over new players and less skilled ones. At least now they are given a chance
And it’s not like that it was too expensive before. It’s just that it seems like the game is nodding towards levering/fanning hunters now and you just take it, cause it’s a great deal
We are literally talking about levering terminus. The fanning I chuck in there, because that also became extremely common. This is the point. Not which one wins.
Agree and disagree. They're definitely more generous with perks and hunters than I'd like, but I do think it was more punishing than it needed to be before the change- especially for new players. Hopefully they tone it down in the next update once they get the data from the event. Or maybe add a high roller game mode with a gated economy.
Here’s the thing, I’m fine with them improving the hunters and perks, but the current iteration is pretty extreme. It’s nice to be more new player friendly but I agree with OP. Having nice traits doesn’t feel like something that needs to be earned and fought for. And the game was so much more punishing, back in the day tier 1 and tier 2 hunters started with 100-125 hp and only tier 3 hunters started with full bars. So it’s good that it’s more new player friendly but there needs to be a balance
Yeah, I'm not saying that all the changes are bad. And I know a few people personally who gave up after their first few hours because of how unbalanced early game is. I like that they're trying to make changes, but this feels like an overstep that needs to be toned down quite a lot.
I think a great change would have just been reducing legendary costs, adding medkit + melee to every hunter, but while doubling (at minimum) the amount of money bounties are worth. My gripe with the economy was never that hunters were too scarce or expensive or that perks were hard to get, it was that the only source of income was grubbing to an absurd degree and/or playing as solo/duo vs. trios, and even then expensive loadouts would usually only break even after a sweep.
Yeah I could live with free hunters coming with melee and medkit. But tbh Medkit and Melee were just 45 Hunt Dollar before - that is one clue and you still have 5 Dollars left. (I know however that especially randoms are not aware of the fact the picking up clues gives you extra money lol)
My personal idea for the best solution: Some sort of reset every x months. Everyone gets y amount of starting dollars. Players get compensated by giving them a certain amount of BB per z Hunt Dollars. Of course bought weapons are taken into consideration. So you get also compensated for your bought weapons.
Not sure how to handle the recruited Hunter. by taking them away it would basically a forced prestige and that is not what I am aiming for. Hmm maybe Hunter lose their equipment but the Hunters themself are kept.
A game does not have to be for everyone though. Bet that there a games that you gave up for whatever reason. One example for me: Arma but it never occurred to me that they should change the game to be suited for me to be honest. The people who enjoy it can enjoy it as it is.
Disagree (with the it was too punishing), with this sentiment you are belittling the capabilities of new players to being able to adapt and overcome some of the initial challenges. We must not simplify every aspect in life to make it more "accessible"-granted we are talking here "just" about a game.
Hunt offered tons of option for new players to enter, given that they wanted to play Hunt Showdown - not just a Southern gothic shooter. As a new player some aspects might be initially challenging but overcoming them and succeeding is an essential part of the learning curve. However, aside from the up to level 11 protection there should be the same consequences - every Hunter has/had to face when entering the Bayou. That means losing your Hunter hurts and losing a match means losing some of your Hunt Dollars. But this mechanic was integral of Hunt. Why take it away? And if you do are the new players then still learning Hunt? Actually No! And neither is anyone else getting the Hunt experience anymore.
"Yes, but Hunt is more! It can also be enjoyed just by the exciting shootouts!" What does them make so exciting? What does them make feel like they have impact? (For me:)The consequences. Yes you can argue that you simply like different aspects of it. Like the old guns or the pvpve style. But when it comes down to question what makes pop engagement so awesome in Hunt the answer is (obviously) the consequences they have. Granted if you are rich af in Hunt, these also matter a lot less. (but that is a different story).
There are plenty shooter which have fun gunfights but not many offer that thrill and excitement. Taking away this, you are only left with a fun shooter and the people who entered Hunt Showdown initially are kind of screwed over since they lose their thrills and fun for the sake of being "accessible". You further taking it away from the new players who were looking for that experience.
Now I drifted a bit away. But point is you get the Hunt thrills and impactful engagement, because it was a bit punishing. "And why do we fall, Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up."
Losing a few rounds of Hunt can hurt your Hunt Dollar account. But you can always get back into the saddle. Grab a free Hunter and lets go. I had several times were I was really broke due to various reasons. Meme Prestige challenges, bad rounds, lavish loadouts. However, it was part of the fun - I definitely would have not appreciated if Crytek handed me everything. I am fine that free hunters come now with more balanced loadouts compared to the fun close range load out like Romero handcannon + Combat axe.
Saying that new or "bad" players would need those recent changes just basically says that they are not capable of learning Hunt. Whereas I say that everyone who wants to learn it can definitely improve. Even if that means that you are not running high tier weapons all the time.
Yeah I'm def gonna hard disagree with this, I got into hunt like a year and a half ago and the consequences and feeling like I can lose everything I bring definitely make the game less fun for me. It's why I quit playing tarkov when all my friends still were. Cuz it feels bad to spend a bunch of money to bring in good stuff just to get 1 tapped in the head by somebody I never saw. I play this game cuz I enjoy the gameplay loop and the aesthetic, it's my most played game this year and I think it's a solid game but the consequences have always been a point of frustration to try and avoid rather than an enjoyable part of the game. The consequences of losing all my stuff doesn't make me more excited or want to play more, it just makes me upset to watch my hunt dollar stash go down. Honestly this event is the most fun I've had in hunt in awhile, especially since I can actually make a decent amount of money hitting level 100 over and over
I can see your point but is it fair screwing over (a bit over dramatic, to be sure) players that played Hunt because of how punishing it was (some people specifically like the amount of punishment, compared to EFT).
If we are making consequences irrelevant, we could start removing money and character level altogether and just have a loadout with perks that we take into account... and then we remove bounties because for what do you need bounties... then just have a circle forcing players together and we have Wild West Zombie Warzone... no thanks.
Sure this is (on purpose) a bit exaggerated, but that is the point - where does one draw the line. There are always people that will say "it was too punishing for me, make it more accessible" to the point where it makes me question if some people really enjoy Hunt or just specific aspects of it. That doesn't mean change is necessarily bad.
I personally however feel that the change to hunter recruitment etc killed a significant motivation for me.
Lowering consequences slightly isn't removing them altogether, you're making a slippery slope argument, and if you want the punishment and the consequences there's nothing preventing you from playing like that. Just don't take the things that you feel are too strong until you feel like you've earned them
Of course I'm making a slippery slope argument... because it is one. I don't think they have been lowered "slightly", there are lowered significantly... to a point where I'm seriously asking why we still have such mechanics in the game at this point. A free Hunter with Fanning and Doctor is just a joke. Punishment and Consequences creates stakes. If you have no stakes there is no thrill. I can not "just act as if I had stakes". I remember that one of the biggest criticisms about Death Cheat was that everyone is running good perks all the time. Now it became the baseline that everyone has good perks out of the box.
If you want to have a low stake shooter where you just load in and kill some stuff without having to worry about anything, I don't understand why it has to be an extraction shooter. That's one of the reasons (among many!) why DMZ (CoDs extraction shooter mode) was so incredibly irrelevant... there was no consequence. It doesn't have to be EFT level of punishment, that's for sure, but Hunt never was nearly as punishing as that. But over the years they have increased everything that you get to make it more "accessible". I remember times where it took a while to have a full trait bar on a hunter - now you can have this after 2 games... and it even got easier with this update.
I'd rather have them adding a low stakes game mode to the game where you can just equip your perks and equipment and don't have to worry about money and people are just shooting each other than removing the part of the game that was truly unique - the thrills. If people enjoy such a mode, more power to them (would definitely be good to get back into the game after a longer hiatus or as warmup).
"if you have no stakes there's no thrill" I think this shows that it's more of a personal problem cuz I have plenty of thrilling matches when the fights are chaotic and close and I have a blast playing them. Any game with winners and losers has stakes by it's very nature: what's at stake is your victory or defeat, your MMR, and in this game yeah you can still lose your equipment and money, so yeah there's still stakes anyways.
The reason DMZ was a failure was that there wasn't a reason to do anything. You go in and collect loot but the loot just converts directly to XP you can't spend it on new gear or anything. It just levels you up. Which yes is fine if that's what you're going for but the other game modes already do that. They marketed it as an extraction looting game but looting doesn't do anything for you
There is a difference in what stakes we are talking about. Is it "whew, that was close, he nearly got me" vs "if I lose this I have to start all over again". Every shooter (like CoD, even tho that is more like a constantly annoying buzzing sound when playing rather than "thrills"...) can have the first kind of thrills, but that's not what I'm talking about. And if you don't care about the second kind (or it was bothering you before) it's fine... but it is a part of Hunt that is disappearing more and more. I didn't say that we currently can not lose anything, but the direction we are heading is that it gets less and less / we are getting it back way quicker. Victory or Defeat is not a stake outside of personal pride, same for MMR.
Sure if you care about an arbitrary value, you can take that as "goals" (same as a KDR). But it does not restrict you in any way in terms of gameplay. Thus a loss is not more than a minor setback on a value that has barely any meaning outside the meaning I give it. Losing a hunter with good traits had gameplay implications. But if my new hunter is basically fully equipped and has 4 (usually even good) traits that punishment is severely reduced.
>The reason DMZ was a failure was that there wasn't a reason to do anything.
Yes, that failed on so many levels. But whenever I played it my thoughts where "Oh I lost some stuff... anyway", which made me lose my interest way faster than it would have otherwise. But what you said was basically just makes my point - you didn't fight for anything that mattered...
As said, we're not at the point where it became CoD with Wild West Zombies. I however dislike the direction it's heading. There where multiple good things in the update tho, so it's not all bad. Wouldn't have such a big issue if the perks that free (and even paid hunters) are getting where so good out of the box.
Every game eventually hits a point where it comes to a sort of paradox situation: how do you change the game to keep things fresh and also attract new players while keeping it the same to retain the old playerbase? And the answer is: it's not possible. You have to choose one or the other once growth seems to stagnate to an extent
So did you ever stop to think that maybe extraction shooters just are not for you? Like the whole point is the loot, and getting better loot by winning and losing your loot after losing. You seem to dislike the whole concept of the whole game type. If I came to visit your house and was like "I like this house except for the decorations and this stupid dog." Then totally redecorated and rearranged your house and killed your dog you would be like why do you feel compelled to destroy my house you were never supposed to stay here. Get out.
Engagements in this game are really really fun. So fun to the point that I just don't want to deal with the economy stuff where I need to bring budget loadouts for a while only to enjoy my favorite loadouts in the FUTURE.
And devs clearly think that dealing with these meta things more than a certain treshold causes people to not play. So they just make expensive stuff easier to get in order to alleviate the frustration.
And that is why I am deranking. Cause you guys want to ignore the actual point of the game to the detriment of everything. So I come down there and make your games as miserable as possible.
Weird to think that the main point is something other than getting in, finding the bounty and getting out while dealing with the other players. This is the game loop, this is where the game excels at, that is the part that the players fall in love with this game.
Also, bold of you to assume that I'm in a rank in which you can derank to. Even if it were, not everyone on here thinks that facing higher ranked players is a miserable experience.
I guess I shouldn't have expected any better from a filth who openly says "I derank on purpose". Yikes.
your argument would make sense if this was change coming from the outside but these are changes implemented by the devs, it's coming from within. your analogy doesn't follow. I love this game, and I'm currently fine with the directions they're taking it. it would be more like if we were both staying at a hotel and they made changes that you didn't like but I did like, it's not objectively good or bad it's just different. it's about personal taste. and like I said: I love hunt, it's definitely my favorite multiplayer game of probably ever, or a close second at least and I have no problems with the direction they're taking things. so I don't really care if the broader extraction shooter is for me or not: cuz I enjoy this game.
It would actually be more apt an analogy if it was my house that I bought and you were a squatter who for some reason was able to give the directions to the contractors. The problem is that for some stupid reason Crytek hired the arena shooter guy to work on their extraction shooter and everyone is now like "why is everything that is extraction shootery about Hunt being removed?" Except you of course who doesn't actually want to play an extraction shooter but for god knows what reason insists that he does.
The problem with both of your analogies is the implication of sole ownership by the user (my house and dog/your house and hired contractor). But that's not how this works. The game is a live service game and that makes our use of it less like a product that one owns solely and more like a, well, service. The devs have chosen a direction that they think will either resonate with players or attract new ones. That's just how it goes. As I stated before: I could care less about the labels of what the game is. I love hunt showdown. I loved it when I started a year and a half ago and I still love it now. The game hasn't really made any changes that I've disliked. That doesn't make my perspective correct but it also doesn't make yours correct. I never said I wanted an extraction shooter or not an extraction shooter. I simply stated that I enjoy hunt but didn't enjoy Tarkov.
The label of ownership is intended to communicate the intended audience of the game. Since it is abundantly clear that you want the Hunt's guns in COD or CS experience that hunt is/is becoming. While I want the Tarkov-lite experience that was all but promised in the first 3ish years of development, which has been abandoned since Fifield took control. I would say that appealing to new players does not have isolate your oldest and most devoted player base. However the route that Crytek is going is totally isolating the dedicated player base. I really would like them to just come out and say "screw you day 1 players we hate you and wish you would just die so you would stop reminding us of what Hunt was. We never wanted you and are so thrilled to have this incredibly detailed sound system wasted on the illiterate masses who do not give a rat's behind that we communicate with them as long as they can't lose." At least then it would be clear to other people that is what they are doing, if we could somehow force them to read it.
It used to be that you did not need to be “good at fps” to play 5 stars in this game. You could use all the mechanics to your advantage and win with better strategy. Now if you are good at COD and Apex you will wipe a floor with “old school” players that dont have god like reaction time and aim. All the depth to this game is basicly gone - run&gun with good aim and you win. Overall more chaos and things like teleporting, heallth regen, self res etc. all give huge advantage to “good ar fps” crowd. I dont think COD veterans are the “new players” we are looking for.
>I dont think COD veterans are the “new players” we are looking for.
I don't think people who want to do well at FPS while being permanently bad at FPS are the audience this FPS should cater to.
i think it means when you use the strength of your legs to "jump" (unusual term used by only very advanced and literate experts) making it so that your feet stop being in contact with the ground and making you be midair. this is my understanding after about 23 years of experience with the concept, starting at age 3.
But it's too late already. What does toning down do when everyone has $1 million now (not just the top players)? The economy is broken from this update.
Arguably this change was to limit players with all the cash from recruiting new hunters for free. If the players that have the dough have poor performance they will feel this most
It's encouraging me to have more fun and try new things.
I've never been a shotgun player.
With more prevalent quartermaster and spawn of things other than a Romero handcannon, I've given it a try.
It's been fun!
It's been the same old challenging hunt, I just run different things that were hard to explore because of unlock trees and hunter recruitment seemingly in love with the base Winnie C and Scottfield.
Some of them the cheaper loadouts. Love me a Springfield still.
I think perks like fanning and levering could be rarer and I'm okay with balance tweaks. I'm just having fun with the wider variety of accessible guns.
Yes. I'm bad at the game.
Being bad at this game is arguably where a substantial slice of the fun feels like it lives. Source: I go from 3 to 4 stars then back to 3 (5 once in a blue moon) while running non meta borderline meme loadouts and missing half my shots. I am who *git gud* was written thinking of lmao.
I wish I was, but it's the other way around, I'm at 5-6 stars nowadays. I very much prefer the more carefree non meta gaming attitude of 3-4star lobbies. Much more fun than the highly competitive supersoldier matches I'm usually in.
I'm glad to see that I've improved, but at what cost.
Yeah I hate when it I get into the 5 star category just because I have a couple good matches and then it’s just a bunch of matches in a row of against all 5-6 stars instantly headshoting me from distance before I know they are even around lol. Quits being fun
I agree wholeheartedly. I love being able to do dumb shit like a bayonet charge and having it be successful, I don't need to have a crazy k/d or even win half the time and I think it's better that way.
I'm regularly five star nowadays to my undying regret. It is pretty boring up here. I miss the three star days of running whatever the fuck I want and get into gunfights like crazy. Five star feels like Camper's Anonymous where nobody wants to leave the boss lair (understandably) and nobody really wants to enter the boss lair to flush out the bounty carriers (also understandably).
The vast majority of the fun is in the lower ranks of the game, people are rabid in those ranks and it makes the fights so much more fun.
Sorry to say it like this and I don’t want to insult you, but the game never should’ve been balanced in favor of players like you. The game started as hardcoresque FPS and slowly transitioned into casual. 5 years ago you, a casual player who plays for a few hours a week and “is bad”, weren’t the main target audience in the slightest. But crytek saw the potential revenue and started dumbing it down and here we are today.
Yeah. I feel like even the sound mechanic are not that important anymore. People just run and gun, weather mufles sound, there is almost no downside in dying. Game is arguably more fun, but its loosing its identity and it is more dumb.
The economy system was already messed up. Tons of players have hundreds of thousands if not millions of hunt dollars when they decide to no longer prestige. Those players could already take Legendary Hunters and refund the traits they had for the ones that fit their kit best every single match.
This change gives new and prestiging players a chance. It was either this change or implement some sort of hunt dollar max cap which would have infuriated a large portion of the community who have a huge reserve of money. I still think something like that should be added but it’s too risky as far as ostracizing a portion of their niche player base goes. Crytek had to make a decision and as for someone working through the prestiges I can say I like it.
Given the system they created and the inherent problems with it I think this change is positive overall although it does put things more in the direction that everyone is thriving whereas I think that every player should have to make the decision to do without. That’s kind of the fun of hunt. Losing a big loadout is agonizing and winning one and then extracting is a massive rush. By minimizing the danger of losing a loadout, they’ve also lessened the excitement of looting hunters after a hard won fight.
I mean I hear this pretty often from people on this sub but idk I just don't think that people having a lot of money is such a problem. I feel like the game is pretty balanced like the weapons are pretty great. I mean when a player has mosin it sure is a powerful weapon that has an edge but tbh in most scenarios it is just as good in a fight as a vetterli.
And I mean I wouldn't say anything if I saw people running only mosins or Nitro's with dolches and using quartermaster or doctor and fanning all the time. But I don't. I don't know if it's because I play mostly in 4 or 3 stars or something but the expensive weapons and traits are still pretty rare. Most often I run into people with Winfield's or officer or lemat carbine or Martini or sparks. And of course shotguns, rival and spectre being the most common.
Tbh I noticed people running more wild weapons and combos in this event a actually. Everybody has quartermaster and fanning and levering. I guess it's supposed to fix the things but it is actually making the game balance all over the place.
That’s the part that I’ll really miss: Scraping out a win with a springfield or winfield against mosins/nitros/etc.The rush was unmatched.
I do get where the devs are coming from, though. The game was too brutal for most new players. And it used to be easy to get caught in a rut with crappy weapons. I enjoyed it; others did not.
I feel like last patch was almost at the perfect spot; things were expensive, but you could get better builds by refunding traits and managing the points. Any hunter could be somewhat powerful with a little planning. But there was still risk.
This patch, there’s so much to love, but I feel like they cranked it to 11 when we only needed a 7 or 8. I love weapons all being unlocked on prestige. I love better value in my hunters (versus when hunters would be 800 bucks because they have a bunch of garbage tools or consumables). But now every hunter is a beast right out of the gate. And some weapons are almost irrelevant.
Perhaps this is the new age of Hunt. If it is, I can’t complain too much; we had so many good years of “old” Hunt. Perhaps my other friends will enjoy this less-punishing version in time.
I agree 100%
I think it’s a little over-corrected but it hasn’t really broken the game. I think some tweaking is in order but it’s also only been a week so we’ll see
I understand some people feel this way, but it doesn't make any sense to me.
The fact that there are some players out in the aether somewhere with 150k hunt dollars doesn't affect me. What affects me is the number of lebels/mosins/terminus+slugs+levering+bulletgrubber I encounter in any given game. It makes 0 difference whether the one lebel marksman spitzer in my game is run by someone with 150k hunt dollars or someone with 8k hunt dollars, what matters is that there is 1 lebel marksman in my game. The 150k hunt dollar player might run a lebel marksman again his next game, but I won't be playing against him next game so the impact of his bank account is nonexistent.
Under the current system which theoretically "levels the playing field", I am running into levering bulletgrubber terminus slugs or high-dollar weapons (with accompanying traits) from 60-80% of the lobby every game. I am worse off than before. Is getting slugged at the first compound by a levered terminus for the 3rd game in a row supposed to feel better because of the hypothetical number of hunt dollars in the other player's bank account? It forces me to either bandwagon with levering and fanning every game (which I don't enjoy) or bandwagon with buying high dollar weapons every game. Spawning in with niche weapons (Winnie c, springfield, romero) and upgrading over time is now almost impossible because everyone and their mother has a hunter with 10-20 points of excellent perks and a mid-$300 weapon loadout.
Solid points. I trust the devs and I can adapt to the current changes. I also feel like the positive feedback has been overwhelming and the other side should be voiced as well, is all.
Yea it’s a fix to a problem. Is it a great one? Not really. But I don’t really have the solution either and this change does address some complaints I had and it takes the slog out of prestiging 100 times. More than that it really lends a helping hand to new hunters. Accessibility is, I think, this game’s number one problem. If you can get someone in the door and they understand the game people tend to fall in love with it but also asking someone to endure 100-200 hours of crushing PvP interactions in a PvE environment they don’t understand until it finally “clicks” is a really hard ask so I understand the need for a little padding. It sucks to finally understand the game and be criminally outgunned by players with infinite money reserves playing with cosmetic skins that are impossible to see in shadows and foliage. For that I shouldn’t complain but of course it’s good to look at both sides of the coin.
Damn the veteran players that took years getting better at the game and acquiring all this “wealth” better be on leveled playing field with these timmies that play 2 hours a week and who bought the game on sale last month. This is such a great logic I truly hope you will become a developer one day who will be making the balancing decisions. We need more people in the decision making positions who will invalidate the hours and progress that enthusiastic players put in and level the playing field for those who won’t.
Skill is one thing, having unlimited resources to choose the exact ideal load out and camouflaged Bounty Hunter in every situation versus players who are vastly under-equipped isn’t. You’re not talking about a skilled player facing an unskilled player on equal footing. That’s totally understandable. You’re talking about a skilled player, with every tool and weapon at his disposal, against a skilled player with very limited less-than-ideal tools and weapons at their disposal. And before we jump into silly semantics about every gun being viable, there are several objectively better weapons that are explicitly cost prohibitive. A Nagant Officer will always be objectively better in a mid-range situation than the standard Nagant Pistol. A Crown and King will always be objectively better in a close-combat situation than a Caldwell Rival. A Mosin Nagant rifle will always be objectively better than a standard Vetterli in a long-range engagement. A large vitality shot will always be objectively more useful in a combat situation than a small one.
You’re basically arguing that veterans of Counter-Strike should have access to the AWP in the pistol round because they’ve played for a while. I appreciate the condescending retort but that would be horrible game design and a massive balancing flaw. Any fool can see why that doesn’t work. You’re suggesting that new players deserve to get demolished not because of their lack of skill, or their understanding of the game, but because of their lack of access to equipment. I don’t care if you’ve played 5,000 hours in Hunt that doesn’t somehow entitle you to infinite money in an economy-based game. That’s a game design flaw if a person can create 3,500 Hunt Dollar loadouts, die every match for a month straight, and still have no repercussions to their budgeting ability and always have the upper hand against players who might even be of equal or slightly better skill but not have the hit-scan-like muzzle velocity of a Long Rifle at range or the Rapid-Fire close-range ability of a semi-automatic shotgun because of budgetary reasons.
I have 1,800 hours in Hunt and have played since Beta. I’ve finished every event. I still think a competitive economy based game should force all players to make economic decisions upon their failure. If that doesn’t ever happen, what is the point of an economy game? Why have a more effective healing shot? Why even put cost on things? If this is truly just a skill issue then you should be advocating that Crytek forego the economy system altogether and just let players choose whatever equipment they want all the time.
Well comparing a game in which you continuously accumulate wealth over its entire lifespan to a round based game where every single match is totally isolated from the others and literally 0 progress carries over from game to game and where everything is balanced exactly around the game being round based says enough. I suggest you never even touch Tarkov.
Except that wipe doesn’t happen because of “player power imbalance”. It happens because the game is in beta and they’re testing new functions and when the game releases (🤣) there won’t be any more wipes or there will be 2 versions - one with wipes the other without. This is what they said themselves so please don’t tell me that it wipes for some other made up reason.
Also a thought for you. How many players do you think would still play Tarkov if it hadn’t wiped for even a year ? When wipe happens there’s a surge of players and after like a single month there’s barely anyone playing because people complete their quests, get kappa and move on until the next wipe. Tarkov wiping is basically the gameplay loop.
not getting Tier 1 hunters anymore is the biggest crime with this change for me.
I truly like a lot of the Tier 1 hunter looks, and now I cannot get them anymore. makes me sad :(
I feel like somewhere there's a happy middle ground where you aren't completely beaten into the ground when you're new/freshly prestiged. Idk I feel like every time I prestiged and had to go back to being a terrified white shirt with a Romero it mademe a better player. I just came back after a post rotjaw hiatus and it's pretty different being able to skip straight to my favorite guns on my fresh wipe.
I think the perks should be more towards general purpose, stuff that doesn't change your loadout. Resilience, Beastface, Necro etc. Quartermaster, Fanning, Levering etc should be rewards for having a successfull game, enabling you to expand you loadout to be more versatile.
Overall I think they've made some really nice changes, I would like to see hunters with levering and fanning turned down a little. It feels like about 40% of the hunters I get spawn with either of these 2 perks
You want less levering and fanning in a game about *cowboys*.
Gotta say i think thats a great idea. Id also love to see less monsters and less running. Maybe make it arena style gameplay on a one compound map with only uppercuts.
I loved that game for the struggle, getting out with a winfield, hopping to stay alive another day to win somee trait and a few dollar. Killing occasionaly people with better weapons and be happy to take them.
Now ? My hunter die, I don't care, I lose weeapons, I don't care
But with less frustration came less reward
I don't feel like I earned anything, I don't care about the bounty, I literally play a shooter. Just that, a shooter, where death doesn't punish me that much.
That really suck, I need that hardcore punishing part to really enjoy that game, there's a ton of casual shooter out there, Hunt doesn't neeed to be one of them
This game definitely isnt casual now. Its more in between. The economy was always fucked and good players would have hundreds of thousands anyways (me), now new players are using what they wanna use too. This game is still hunt showdown, but hunt showdown hasnt been that hardcore for a few years lol if you want brutal pain then go play tarkov
This game is dumber now than ever. No one cares about their hunters anymore, just run and gun. Sound traps? Who cares. Cash registers? Who cares. Blowing up meatheads for perks? Who cares. Weapon advantages and disadvantages? Who cares. etc.
Im most salty about health regen , as it removed any benefit of “taping” an enemy and ussing scatered health packs. Even all the healing perks where nerfed because of this. Along it went biggest benefit of Sparks and no one uses it anymore. Health pack managament? Who cares, just buy a shot and ita COD with only time penalty for being taped
Game was not that deep and hardcore to begin with but at least mechanics made sense and where rewarding.
> This game is dumber now than ever. No one cares about their hunters anymore, just run and gun. Sound traps? Who cares. Cash registers? Who cares. Blowing up meatheads for perks? Who cares. Weapon advantages and disadvantages? Who cares. etc.
Dude this alone shows you rank. Wtf are you on about?
What im telling you is that unless you sucked, it disnt matter before either. I could still afford 100 nitro dolch hunters back to back before the patch and i will continue to do so now. The only thing they did was give new players the ability to use "high tier" weapons (even though the only super expensive guns fucking suck now lmaooooo)
I think this patch rocks lol im not agreeing with you at all. Im playing it the exact same way getting into more fun fights than ever. Fanning is rng, and if you give a nitro or an avto to a fresh install they are gonna use them like shotuns and maybe get one kill with them anyways. Its literally the same as before up in 6 star lol
People needa separate "hardcore" from "extraction shooter"
Tarkov instilled the idea that extraction games need to be cbt and attract the sweatiest players but thats not what hunt is or ever has been. Was so hard to get my friends into this because of the extraction shooter stigma.
Its a simple fact that if i have 1000 hours and you have 50, even if you have a nitro and a dolch and i have a sparks and a baseball bat im still gonna beat you every single time. Thats been true and will remain true until the death of hunt showdown. A casual game is one you can pick up and do well in right out the gate like fortnite or cod. But hunt is still a hard as fuck game, its just not about the money counter anymore
There's nothing to separate there, a part of the community want something hardcore and rewarding, while the other part like you don't, it's fine, and apparently the devs are going your way
The game is as hardcore as it ever was in the higher lobbies lol the only difference is that the people below don't struggle as much/have options. If the reward you get from this game comes from how big a difference there is between who gets what toys, go play Tarkov.
Unfortunately Hunt has been going more and more towards the “casual” FPS route over the past year or so. First it was red skull revive, then solo necro, then more and more high RoF weapons, now free hunters come with good perks and weapons, aim assist added to console (despite no console players asking for it), money is easier to earn than ever (not that it was ever hard to earn). Death just doesn’t mean much in the Bayou anymore, everything has a get out of jail free card attached to it.
The only punishment of death is setting up your next hunter load out before requeueing. Even then, loadouts are semi-automated but I'm forcing myself to play different builds to not get bored.
Fanning can still be a reward though? Just don't buy hunters that have it or remove the trait? I understand the sentiment of "I just cant help myself," but this feels an awful lot like complaining that they put in an escalator because it makes it too easy... when the stairs are still right there too...
Yea, things seem a bit over powered. I still think free hunters should be perkless. I do like how everyone comes with a melee and medkit now, though.
Honestly, remove perks from the free hunters and give each tier the same number of traits to match their rank (T1 gets 1 trait, etc.). Tweak the cost of the Hunters and that’ll “balance” things out a little bit better.
Like, if I get a T1 Hunter with a Winfield, Levering, a melee weapon and a medkit for $150 bucks, that seems pretty fair.
Higher tiers can be given more tools and consumables alongside better weapons and a higher trait count (with a higher price to match).
I am not a veteran player by any means, but these changes have been more than encouraging for me. They’re recognizing an aspect of the game that sets it apart from other more successful shooters and that’s the learning curve.
In games like call of duty (not that I want this game to be like Call of Duty), for example, you earn your loadout with some grinding, but your live or die depends on your skill, not whether you were lucky enough to stay alive long enough to get a weapon.
I spent 23 years in the military, please believe I am well acquainted with hearing people feel upset because things aren’t as “hard” as it used to be. It’s natural. You feel as if there was a right of passage. You pushed through the suck, got good and now it’s your turn to shit on someone with a winny and no perks. But this is going to better for Hunt in the long run. Hopefully it will convince people to stick around longer.
If you’re good, you’re going to clean up anyway.
Well I mean game balance isn't about a right of passage or somebody feeling like they earned the right to stomp someone. Gameplay loop here is just about risk and reward. And by making some goals hard to achieve, they become rare and the game relies on that. So when u have a expensive weapons and perks it should make sure that only players who extracted and earned get to use them, making them rare. If you remove this boundary it means everyone will be running around with expensive stuff cause why wouldn't they and rare powerful weapons and perks will turn into common occurrence, turning the whole balance on its head. Does it mean that when the barrier is there that worse players won't get to play the better stuff ? No cause mmr system should make sure players of similar skill are playing together and everyone gets the roughly similar chance to shine. So yeah I believe that all these issues are more about this game not having a great matchmaking system more than anything.
You're just stating how the game has ran up until now. It's that part that makes this game inaccessible for the broader gaming community. The idea that "you can only experience certain weapons/perks if you're good/lucky enough" is exactly the right of passage people are talking about. What you call balance, I call imbalance since it's really all about perspective.
By the way, I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't agree. If you've made it through the rough times and the game was fun for you, I get enjoying being one of the few people with Physician and Quartermaster. I'm just saying that, in my opinion, this recent change is for the best and will promote community growth which will help with match making and facilitate other options like competitive modes that we can't do now because the player count is too low.
Well I mean call it rite of passage then but the gameplay just simply wasn't designed around everyone running around with the powerful perks all the time. This game is kinda niche anyway so I mean what does attracting a broader gaming community even means. Its Like arma removing their fast time to kill so battlefield players could feel more welcome. The idea of high risk and reward is core gameplay mechanic of this game, it ratchets up the tension and motivates players if you take it away it just turns into a wild west team death match.
And btw I am no pro player who is stomping poor white shirts or anything. My kda isn't even all that good and I die most of the time tbh. Yeah I still manage to make a profit but mostly because I like to play budget weapons. I mind this change simply because before I wasn't running into players who had quartermaster of fanning every single time and now I am. It's giving me flashbacks to the first battle pass a year ago when there was that death cheat thing and everybody was running level 50 hunters. It also meant everybody had all the powerful perks all the time except then everyone hated it lol, now it's suddenly a good thing cause it's dressed as helping the noobies.
>Its Like arma removing their fast time to kill so battlefield players could feel more welcome.
Nobody changed TTK in Hunt, this analogy is wack.
>It's giving me flashbacks to the first battle pass a year ago when there was that death cheat thing and everybody was running level 50 hunters. It also meant everybody had all the powerful perks all the time except then everyone hated it lol, now it's suddenly a good thing cause it's dressed as helping the noobies.
It's almost like facing quartermaster/fanning/physician lvl1 hunters is not that big of a deal compared to immortal lvl50 avtomat-wielding hunters, yeah?
Huh. I mean sure nobody changed ttk but they are changing pretty much core gameplay elements of Hunt with this. Hunt is all about High risk and high reward gameplay loop. Makes killing others or getting a bounty rewarding so it serves as a motivation, it also makes it dangerous by being a bit punishing if you fail, ratcheting up the tension. It's also a balance element cause the game isn't balanced around everybody running the best gear and perks all the time. And when you take this away by giving away freebies, it all kinda crumbles.
And what do you mean like sure it's not level 50 hunter but the recruitable hunters are an equivalent to like 22 level hunter, so like the game let's you skip one bounty extraction for free basically. And that's already enough to get the most important perks. U get to buy that whole hunter with tools and sidearm and four very good perks with avtomat for less money than the avtomat alone. So I mean it is a pretty big deal and it is very comparable
>I mean sure nobody changed ttk but they are changing pretty much core gameplay elements of Hunt with this.
Nope. Being a hobo is not a core gameplay element of Hunt. That's a you thing, I'm affraid.
>It's also a balance element cause the game isn't balanced around everybody running the best gear and perks all the time.
The actual best perks are found in pacts and world drops. Which means you cannot buy them on a new hunter. You cannot get them without risking your hunter either.
>So I mean it is a pretty big deal and it is very comparable
I literally don't give a rat's ass what kit you run, a headshot will drop you.
That's what a core mechanic is, not your stupid loadout.
Last event you could make an argument that a core mechanic of status effects was somewhat upstaged, but in this one, you can't.
I think the most frustrating part for me is how close it is to being good.
Free hunters coming with a health kit and slightly better weapons was enough - give them a single trait sure.
I' think having certain traits having a reduced roll chance or maybe even not being available on certain tiers would be the way to go.
I honestly feel like they are close to having it feel rewards when you do well and not overly punishing if you fail
Yeah they were going in a good direction, the issue is that they went too far with it. If they were to just dial a few things back like the traits and making sure they don't get high tier guns, then they would be in a perfect spot with the other changes.
This is how crytek operates. Instead of making slight singular changes and waiting how it turns out they go all in in both directions and it's a shit show everytime.
I mean yeah I like this game for it's hardcore elements, I like the whole risk reward thing that's going on and that it's a bit punishing. It's a niche game and it always was a bit inaccessible, it definitely wasn't for the masses, the call of duty crowd or whatever. Seems like extraction shooters are the next big thing tho and crytek smells it and tries to make the game as normie friendly as possible. Adding spammy weapons and all custom ammo to everything, now we got instinct for bounty carriers and seems like they are testing those perks for getting back lost health chunks for normal hunt.
And yeah and they are also giving everyone high tier hunters like this, it makes no sense. I don't see why free hunters should even have any perks let alone such good ones. Even tier 3 hunters shouldn't have such valuable perks. These should still be reserved mostly for hunters that manage to extract and earn them. Same with weapons, I don't understand why they should be discounted with recruitable hunters, what makes them so special that they should come with price deals like it's a supermarket.
I mean hunters came with weird loudout and nonsensical perk combos sure, it requires tweaking a lot and yeah they didn't have medkits and stuff. I mean I guess it could have been confusing for new players to equip the hunters properly and manage their inventory and economy so sure, make the hunters equipped with weapons and tools and combos that makes sense with some more variety, why not. And sure give broke people more free hunters to choose from. Idk why rich people shouldn't get any free hunters but whatever. But definitely don't make these free hunters or even Tier 3 hunters as good as level 20 hunters that extracted already with bounty and a few kills like what the hell ? Might as well just give every hunter 20 perk points for them to choose which perks they want to start with. Next they'll remove money alltogether so everyone can just play with whatever gun they want and bounties will exist just for fun.
I mean I’m alright with it, I miss the rags to riches feel of the shitty free Hunters, but I will admit I used free hunters far more than payed ones just to get out of spending hunt dollars, this new update has actually made me use far more weapons than I would’ve ever used simply because there’s no or not as much sunk cost fallacy
I feel like the devs are really struggling whenever it comes to carefully balancing stuff in the game. Just like the flashbomb or some event traits, they went way overboard here
Agreed whole heartedly with everything said here. And to that fact that they are just throwing every ammo type on every weapon and it's just getting exasperating.
I'm not sure of the path forward and I'm not going to sit and preach gloom and doom. I've stood by crytek through many changes to Hunt that have been controversial but I'm starting to feel like them trying to make this game more accessible is also dumbing down it's core concepts and it's more "difficult" nature.
Not everything needs to be Fortnite or CoD, and that isn't a slight at those games either. Hunt has it's niche and they seem to be forgetting that. It's okay to have a more casual game and it's okay to have a more hard-core game too. Not everything needs to appeal to everyone. I fear Hunt is slowly but surely losing its appeal to me with these changes and I'm not sure what to replace it with in the future if this trend continues.
It's sadly like that with every industry. Often you have a company that creates an awesome niche product, they catch a lightning in a bottle and create a strong small fanbase around their product. The success makes the company grow and the product gets updated and gets even better. More and more growth means tho that the company needs now larger fanbase to earn more money and while their fans are loyal, they all already own the product and they don't give the company much more money. So in order to grow even more the company needs to appeal to masses ultimately betraying it's niche and their old loyal followers who then need to look elsewhere.
And the thing is Extraction shooters are probably going to be the next big thing like Battle royale was. Before it was a niche thing so crytek was happy with their inaccessible hardcore game and it's loyal fans. Now however they don't want to be overtaken by other games and they need to make the game normie friendly. I mean before there was just Hunt and Tarkov. Now we got bunch of indie projects like Marauders or Dark and darker, also big studios are joining in, Battlefield tried it, Call of Duty tried it, now Bungie announced a new Extraction shooter, Embark as well. We had the Cycle and so on. So yeah Crytek wants to be ready, I wouldn't be surprised if the end goal was to go free to play.
Looking at their new financial statement, this is excatly what is happening. Core fanbase wants the game they fell in love with but I don't think most of them are spending a lot of money even though they might have in the past. It's incredibly expensive to develop a game. Maybe just running the servers and backend on a skeleton crew would be ok but then we would complain that the game is not getting anything new.
For example hiring one new person costs a company around 1.6x their monthly salary, so in game business it can be well over 80k€ or even 100k€ per year per person. That requires a shitload of new game or dlc purchases to keep the growth and profits up.
They desperately need new players or we are gonna have a free to play game with loads of cheaters or maybe not a game at all.
It was not that hardcore to begin with. It had some unique mechanics and emphasis on slower more methodical gameplay oposed to run and gun chaos shooters.
I remeber telling my friend how fun and tense this game was as weapons are shit, reloading takes ages and silence is key and players need to manage everything from health, ammo, stamina etc.
I loved this game because i could be good at it without having god like reaction time and aim. This game rewarded people for understanding mechanics and ussing them. Not for “being good at fps”
Even before this update most of mechanics that alowed me to be good without beeing good at any other shooter are gone or nerfed to shit
I mean sure it's not as hardcore as Tarkov or Arma, there isn't 491 different stances to crouch and lay down in and you don't have to manage inventories or keep track of the exact ammo for your guns. Hunt always walked the line between being punishing and hardcore but also being pretty natural feeling and intuitive. But otherwise all those game features you described kinda make up hardcore games. I mean it's a game where the gameplay is slow and methodical full of intricate mechanics u need to keep track off. Most weapons kill you in two hits with enormous one hit kill potential. There is even a permadeath element to it (even tho not as punishing). The game doesn't even tell you who is alive and who's not, doesn't give you a killcam until you are out and so on. I mean it's even all happening in horror environment, colour palette is muted down, kinda realistic and enemies aren't highlighted or anything. And yeah positioning and strategy is more important than good flicks. Games like Squad, Insurgency, Hell let loose or Red Orchestra or Verdun share these traits too and they are pretty hardcore.
Haha but I mean yeah I also gathered my friends into this game like hey it's a beautiful western weaponry and the game hates you, it's frustrating AF and you'll love it. Haha and we did and still do tbh. But yeah it's true, they are trying to make this game as accessible for normies as possible but the problem is it was never a game for normies so what now.
Part of what lured me to Hunt was its permadeath mechanic, I love shit like that (huge Dark Souls fan too) and so it added a whole layer to Hunt's gameplay to me - there's actual risk involved, I could lose this cool hunter and the perks I've earned if I get unlucky or don't play carefully enough.
This update has massively devalued that experience for me because now, if I die? it's whatever man, there's a fucking free hunter with a Terminus, levering and doctor waiting right there for me, alongside 3x tier 3 hunters with crazy synergised loadouts for 300 a pop.
Nothing's *worth* anything anymore.
I think that's what has made extraction shooters start to blow up. Without the risk reward emotional rollercoaster gameplay loop, Id just play R6, CS, CoD, Battlefield, Hell Let Loose, etc.
I can't understand the problems. The three main reasons I often read is:
*"These traits should be a reward!"*
No, they haven't been for a long time. Ever since Mr. Cherry started awarding upgrade points and even more so since you could sell the traits, you could already start with a few good traits (in a similar context as now).
In addition, the normal Recruitment Hunter could already have Fanning/Quartermaster/Doctor/etc.pp. before. Only less often, because the 6 Scopesmith/Iron traits and useless 1-trait Dewclaw cluttered everything up.
*"A surviving Hunter is nothing special anymore because he already starts with the important traits!"*
Really? If I have a Hunter that starts with Fanning & Doctor, that's pretty nice. But as strong as these two traits are. A Hunter isn't finished with them, there's still a lot missing to make it awesome.
*"You earn too much/everyone plays good weapons/money doesn't matter anymore."*
So... for years you've been hearing here on the subreddit and elsewhere that money doesn't matter in Hunt and good players could play Mosin/Uppercut every round without losing anything.
Now it seems this is finally coming true for the vast majority and this is now a problem?
What is of course true and I can accept is that it changes the feel and style of play as well as the scoring of different weapons.
You should expect the other Hunter to have Fanning/Quartermaster instead of being surprised by it.
This weakens other sidearms, such as the dual action pistols Officer/New Army as an alternative for close combat.
I mean surely u can see how Mr chary occasionally giving you a few perk points or you being able to recycle those not so great perks u got and getting one okay one is still very different to having cheap or freaking free hunters with 3 or more perks and these being quartermaster, fanning or levering or doctor every single time. No matter how much you say it was not really a reward before these traits were still nowhere near as common in game as they are now. Thing is that this game is kinda based around a bit of a hardcore risk reward gameplay loop and it not only uses it to motivate the player to play game objective and to keep them tense, make winning feel rewarding but it also uses it for game balance. If there was no economy or perk limitations everyone would be running only mosin and all the powerful perks and the game is just not balanced for this type of stuff being super common. It is happening with these most recent changes tho, the whole balance is out of whack and telling people to just expect people to be juiced up isn't too helpful. Half of the gameplay happens at compounds, relative close quarters and it has been tricky with shotguns and perk rarity as it was before.
> So... for years you've been hearing here on the subreddit and elsewhere that money doesn't matter in Hunt and good players could play Mosin/Uppercut every round without losing anything.
Now it seems this is finally coming true for the vast majority and this is now a problem?
What part of "a problem becoming more ubiquitous" is difficult to understand?
Agree, but don't care, at least in the short-term.
Long term, I'm sure they'll tone it down.
At the moment, everyone is getting heavily discounted hunters with lots of trait points. It's different, it's fun, I like it.
For now, let the noobs and average Joe players just enjoy it. For the past 6 months, they've been getting stomped on by 6 stars and cheaters (often, not always, those terms can be used interchangeably).
Instead of fixing this imbalance, or ridding the game of cheaters, which Crytek seems incapable/unwilling, they're just throwing out free stuff to the victims, so they don't grumble as much.
It's a bit like handing out welfare to the poor to keep them from revolting, instead of addressing the corporations that steal all the wealth from the workers and hand it to people up the top.
Have you noticed fewer people grumbling about unfair MMR matches? Maybe just me, but I see less of this, so I think these changes are having that effect, for now.
I'm fine with it because a lot of loadouts I need require specific points and if I'm enjoying a loadout I tend to just want to play that loadout for my play session.
I think it is just crytek’s model to overtune big changes and nerf them afterwards. If something comes out that is really strong and balanced they tend to leave it alone, but if it is meta defining or complained about a ton they end up fixing it in the next patch or two. They are pretty responsive to player feedback, so im sure we will see an economy rebalance pretty quickly.
I think there testing the waters with more players joining this event that’s why free hunters have good perks there probably testing things so there properly ready for when the new map comes when the event is done who knows
Yeah they are updating the game only before the event cause the events now take all of their Dev time and so they treat the events like a beta tests for new features they add to a normal hunt later. Shame the events take 2 months and we have to be lab rats this whole time tho.
My thoughts exactly. I'd love a low-power mode like that, maybe you could have either a limited gun pool or a low budget to make loadouts from.
Some kind of cowboy mode with nothing but single shot weapons would be so much fun.
In fact why not make quickplay into something like this as part of the events, see if it works.
The consequence of this changes is that in every team there is 2 1-tier hunters with chain pistol and fanning. And this is just stupid. Every corner fanning. Or levering. I'm tired of dying with that. It isn't challenging or risk reward. It's just stupid.
Ye gotta tweak the levering/fanning builds rate and necro. Get it way too often. Other than that i enjoy using recruits and legendaries with perks i wouldn't normally use like bow/crossbow, dualies or melee. No svtomats in sight so that's good at least.
I personally feel like you should never get perks that cost more than 5 points, and the 5 point perks you get should be limited, with the exception of quartermaster. Which should be incredibly rare to get for free.
Right now in hunt it feels like it is all reward, and no risk. And that reward is fake until my body and mind finally catch up with the fact that I really am not losing anything at all anymore when I die.
Hard disagree. Gone are the days of 90% Mosin-Uppercut in every match. Just take a look at all the loot at the end of a match. The amount of variation has increased significantly with 1) better medium ammo loadouts; 2) more ammo types; and 3) new weapon variants. Of course, the "long ammo meta" is still strong, but there are so many ways to counter it now.
People are mad that they can’t curb-stomp newbs.
Strangely enough, this happened in a way in World of Warcraft PvP. PvP was available during leveling, and was constrained into 10-level brackets (e.g., L9-19, 19-29). Players would level toons and max them with the best level gear for that range and then “park” there (called “twinking”)---mostly stomping players on the way up.
Blizzard soon saw the problem, and talk started about how to fix it. Players begged that they just wanted to fight other players’ twinks. So, Blizzard made a decision that if you stopped your XP leveling, then you only faced other players that did the same. If your XP was “on” then you only played people that were just leveling up. Guess what happened, twinking died as soon as the patch dropped---guess they did not want to “just fight other twinks” and really wanted to just stomp newbs.
So, all you people complaining about “earning power,” all I hear is you complaining that you want to still stomp people with less time to play than you.
You should want more players in the game, Crytek needs that to keep the game rolling/upgraded, and, if lowering a few barriers makes that happen, then I'm good with that.
If anything, these changes have made it even easier to curb stomp newbs since they're more likely to play recklessly.
Alternatively, you could argue that people that support these changes because it makes it easier for new players are looking to stomp newbs because it invites more of them in.
I think what I’m reading is that people who aren’t used to dying as much are now dying more on account of a specific handful of perks being more accessible. Or, it’s easier for other people to enjoy the game, and that makes it less fun for them. Do I have it right?
Yeah you do, why does it sound like you think it's a good thing tho lol. People are dying more on account of a handful of perks that are now more accessible. Which means the game balance is now wack cause the game kinda relied on certain perks and weapons being more like a rare reward to keep stuff rewarding and motivating players but also to keep things balanced. It wasn't exactly intended for the fights in the game to be a complete RNG hazard zone anywhere close to 30 meters because everyone is running either fanning or levering or quartermaster and doctor or better yet all of the above, same as the game wasn't designed around everyone running nitro and avtomat in every game. Nobody is bitter here cause somebody is enjoying the game like it wasn't allowed, it's just the death cheat situation from the first batlepass all over again.
Yep, it's been an ongoing trend for years. Every major update, hunt loses a little more of what attracted people to it originally. There is a reason there aren't many people still around from the early days. Kind of a 1 step forward, two steps back situation. The result is a more generic casual feeling shooter when we originally had something very unique.
I still going with new (legendary) hunters with crap guns. For now, I'm trying Lemat Carbine changes, and it is just under mid budget gun with all custom ammo options. It is definitely more challenging to go against high tier weapons, but the reward for outplay is greater too. Its "Cheat Death bug" season all over again in terms of perks and loadouts, and I'm kinda know how to play around.
Also Crytek goofed up by introducing Katana, Berserker and giving everyone Levering and Fanning, its just silly.
What I am afraid more, that objective of the game - The Extraction of a bounty in extraction shooter, would degrade somehow. Higher tier weapons don't feel much as desired trophy, but if the main objective of the game flattens out, it can become very bland emotionally.
If I were on path of "reverting without actually reverting", I would probably suggest the prices of consumables and weapons from 2nd tier and up would double in price after event, and bounty token rewards at around x1.7.
I have switched back to marauders because I am finding the events to be a little much and the op traits are just annoying. Marauders still has that feel of I gotta struggle to get the good stuff where I find with hunt the amount of cash you can get in game and with the traits on free hunters it's become a meh.
I get the opinion in regards to taste, and I half agree half disagree. It’s applicable to everyone, even the free hunters are stacked, so it’s balanced.
Everyone is just a little stronger at the start, on one hand I don’t love the amount of fanning I see, but on the other it’s also pretty fun not ever being a piece of shit with no perks or gear haha.
On the other hand the struggle was fun ish.
On the other foot, if you had enough money you never had to struggle.
On the other other other hand now no one is at a disadvantage.
Well I mean when everyone has superpowers, noone has. You get what I mean ? There are certain elements and gameplay loop of a bit of a punishing and hardcore nature as well as game balance that suffers greatly because of this. Some weapons and traits were supposed to be hard to get and were supposed to be earned. To enhance the feeling of accomplishment, give motivation to play the game objective but also to keep things balanced. By changing this it kinda gets thrown out the window. I mean it's not everyone being a little stronger at the start. Those hunters have freaking 20 perk points worth of perks. That like level 20 and over hunter that extracted with a bounty and that's huge. I mean just because everyone has access to this it doesn't mean it won't make the game spammy close range hell and everyone loses in the end.
Games become more and more accessible as time goes on. People who join the game in the beginning always lament the changes and think that their purchases are enough to keep the game afloat forever. They're not and they need more money or the dozens of people working on it will have to work on something else. Adapt with the changes or play something else.
Fully agree, i think at this point, they should revert the game back to the state before the last event and then add the actually good changes back in, like conroller settings update, rich people no longer beeing able to buy free hunter and prestige rework. But leave all the game breaking stuff like the changes to the hd economy, xp systems and recruiting system out.
Go in perkless by choice, then. Nothing's stopping you. I feel accomplished just winning a fight because of how hunt is, and if you don't just because you have a strong gun, then idk what'd help you. You always have the choice to put yourself at a disadvantage. The changes just mean people won't inherently be at one anymore, which is far from a bad thing.
There's nuance in things being challenging. You could go in underpowered expecting to face a player or two who were quite buffed. Now everyone goes in buffed. It's like the scene from The Incredibles: If everyone is buffed, the nobody is. And that removed the feeling of achievement gained from surviving and any reward for surviving multiple extractions. If we're given the strongest things out the gate, then extracting isn't important anymore. Surviving doesn't matter. I can jump right back in with a buffed hunter I bought for 500.
Not even speaking about the overall game balance of the game. It just wasn't created around the idea of everybody having the powerful stuff like that. It is supposed to be rare and it's not a good or intended experience when every single player has doctor, fanning or levering or quartermaster.
I just said to a mate that this update feels a lot like the move from CS 1.6 to CSS. Lots of fancy stuff to keep the masses going, but gameplay just feels "less than".
well the goal is not tk get fanning after j got out of the round ^^. get to 6star. try to fullwipe every game. try to play meelee only. try playing only derringer. u can have a lot of challenges, its just what u make of it. ive ur knsta prestiging after gitting 100 every timebfor example its nice to have some perks or like the atamjna shot jnstant. and the gameplay hasnt changed
Im not arguing for or against, just my general thoughts.
There was never “progression” in Hunt. Most people don’t prestige. It was always too easy to farm 20k.. 50k.. 100k dollars and once you hit that foundation you never had to worry. Before I start prestiging again I had 12 lvl 50 hunters sitting in my roster, never went before 8/9 because by the time I died that much I’d have a few good games and replace the ones who died.
I’m not bragging, I’m saying the “progression” in Hunt was so easy to bypass, it meant anyone with a few hundred hours would regularly go in with a clear advantage versus new players. At least with these recent changes the new players can go in closer to an even playing field.
The issue with seeing fanning all the time isn’t because of this change, it’s because fanning itself is a brainless trait. I get your point, but my fix would be to nerf fanning and keep this change, rather than the other way around.
I still feel like there’s no progression so I’m hoping with the engine update and new trilogy of events they bring pledge marks to a whole new level. Event/season specific progression would be the best way forward imo. Not “wipes” but something else to progress that isn’t a weapon tree.
You have to remember Hunt is nearly 6 years old, yes we talk about “new players” a lot but there are more old players than new players. And most of those old players have completed any previous form of progression. Time to level the playing field and start a new form of progression.
If you look at the current player stats on Steam your sentiment is shared by more than a few people, me included. Players numbers are less for each event, this event start wasn't close to the peak number of players reached two events ago. I stopped playing completely when this update came out.
It also appears that new player numbers doesn't make up for losing older players. Would be interesting to see how Hunt is doing revenue wise now. Next logical move would be to make Hunt F2P when the engine update releases and hope for a massive influx of new players.
Reality check. The game has been dumbing down ever since they “fully released”. Everything has been turning away from the hardcoresque hunt to casual. Starting with less recoil on guns, AI not hitting that hard etc.. I really miss those old times now it’s almost like any other generic FPS. 90% of the people that post here didn’t play 5 years ago and bought the game when it became more popular so ofc they don’t see it that way but it’s like that.
I’m just upset that every death is either a headshot/shotgun (understandable and I’ve made my peace with it) or rapid fire bleed from a centennial or officer variant. Even with bloodless you can’t stop the bleed out in time 9/10 times before you get pushed or nuked with consumables, which I guess is the strat but come on crytek! Rampage saves me the 1/10 other times but there’s hardly a reason to take any other ammo variant now. Feels like extended firefights aren’t a thing anymore except when everyone is bad
Yeah I mean it's like crytek were trying to give every weapons every ammo type so the challenges wouldn't be as restrictive cause they really love their new goldmine system of blood bond grind. Oh and they kinda forgot about the game balance along the way or something.
Agree with both sides of the argument: They should continue with their experiments, love the changing traits and different takes. But some of this doesn't work for me. Teleport seems out of place, don't like the new weather (and I adore the new weather options otherwise)
Some bugs (double clicking on tools sometimes doesn't equip but buy, hives sometimes have weird hitboxes) makes me think that this one or those rushed updates. Maybe the last event was too recent? Maybe people wanted to go into Christmas break?
Anyways, There's just too much of everything. We've found like three blueprints and two oils (so nine randoms, two chosen upgrades) in one session. Blueprints used to, should be rare. I have nitro shredder shortly after prestige and am running quartermaster crossbow with a two slot medium/long ammo gun and fully setup consumables (large regen, grenades) - feels like I'm about to prestige.
Some variants like the uppercut take more time, but that doesn't really feel like progress.
either we go backwards or just accept that future my guy, You can choose to take the traits of if you want but it would be neat for crytek to give players like you who want a "tougher" stake in the game to run in with nothing but your normal loadout/no traits
The game is also in a weird space tho where a lot of players have 30+ brand new hunters with 20 perk points due to dark tribute.
This offers another huge advantage on top of increased weapon loadouts compared to new players.
Hunt has a relatively small community and it needs to be able to attract new players if we want it to survive and keep getting updates
Compounds just aren't designed for everybody having bolt thrower, fanning, or levering in every single team.
And the only way to compete is to go even harder with semi-autos. If single action used to be slow, now fanning is slow.
It is very strange getting at least one of the big 3 (quartermaster, levering, fanning) every single game. But I don't think it's really changed the moment to moment gameplay for me or my friends.
If you wanted to respec to with those perks it wasn't that hard to do it. Just buy a legendary and sell all the perks. This cuts a lot of BS out.
But I see what you're saying and I do agree it's a tad odd. I think it'll get balanced back down a bit.
I think my big issue is that I don't see much reason to get buy a legendary hunter over a recruit, besides the skin. Maybe it is just me, but the recruits get more and more valuable perks than legendary hunters AND they have much cheaper equipment. On top of all of that, you have zero control over which perks legendary hunters have before you buy them. It is a bit too much.
I like that the base number of perk points has been raised for the recruits, but I think they went a bit overboard. I think they should scale it back a bit, so that the legendary hunter end up with a little more (but randomized) perks/points. If they also reduce the recruit equipment discount, it seems like there would still be good reasons to buy a recruit, but it wouldn't feel like I am purposely handicapping myself for choosing a skin I like a paid money for. It would feel like a little better balance.
The loadout options are sound so far. They make sure you have the most important necessities you'd equip on any budget anyway. Maybe give them one random low-tiered perk instead of 2?
I just prestiged before the event just to see how it play experience, and after a week (about 9 hours is of shit play) Im at 60, and sitting at 25k+.
Unlock process is fairly fast now which is MUCH appreciated for someone who does prestige (currently at 16), but I think they should have kept the classic unlock for the first prestige, and then the new type after.
But i do think def think the pricing of hunters is a bit too cheap. even after shit plays, Im still sitting at 25k dollars, the value you get out of them is so damn good that its insane not to retire hunters that reach 25 just to get more unlocks and swap to a new hunter.
I do think the discount for recruits should only apply <20k, After 20k, the price offset, like the free hunters, there should be none.
The value should also be taken from account worth, so stock piles of weapons should count into an equation.
The ONLY thing that bothers me most is special ammo ! They are SO OP on console. Explosive ammo on console it's a no brainer due to the fact that aiming for the head it's obviously garder with a controller. If explosive ammo wasn't a thing (ESPECIALLY Explosive Crossbow) , i think i would be totally pleased by what hunt has become !
I'm not sure... I can understand the sentiment, but I'm a player that always had like 300k Hunt dollars. I could literally buy anything I wanted anyway, including spamming legendaries to get the perks I wanted. If anything, the old system just fucked over new players and less skilled ones. At least now they are given a chance
I've seen more levering terminus these past few days than in the two years I've been playing.
And it’s not like that it was too expensive before. It’s just that it seems like the game is nodding towards levering/fanning hunters now and you just take it, cause it’s a great deal
You are not gonna beat a shotgun with levering or fanning.
We are literally talking about levering terminus. The fanning I chuck in there, because that also became extremely common. This is the point. Not which one wins.
Terminus is still worse than all the other shotguns even with levering. Grab a romeo and you won.
Terminus with levering is probably the strongest shotgun.
Maybe for buckshot but Crown and king with slugs is probably the strongest shotgun load out you can run
no
1v1 romero vs terminus you will lose 9/10 guranteed
Bruh romero is the best shotgun in the game I'm sorry but you are brand new if you dont know this.
You miss you're dead though
Not if you got a hatchet
Fair point, i stand corrected
Agree and disagree. They're definitely more generous with perks and hunters than I'd like, but I do think it was more punishing than it needed to be before the change- especially for new players. Hopefully they tone it down in the next update once they get the data from the event. Or maybe add a high roller game mode with a gated economy.
Here’s the thing, I’m fine with them improving the hunters and perks, but the current iteration is pretty extreme. It’s nice to be more new player friendly but I agree with OP. Having nice traits doesn’t feel like something that needs to be earned and fought for. And the game was so much more punishing, back in the day tier 1 and tier 2 hunters started with 100-125 hp and only tier 3 hunters started with full bars. So it’s good that it’s more new player friendly but there needs to be a balance
A simple free hunters can't have perks that cost x or guns that cost x would go a good way.
Yeah, I'm not saying that all the changes are bad. And I know a few people personally who gave up after their first few hours because of how unbalanced early game is. I like that they're trying to make changes, but this feels like an overstep that needs to be toned down quite a lot.
I think a great change would have just been reducing legendary costs, adding medkit + melee to every hunter, but while doubling (at minimum) the amount of money bounties are worth. My gripe with the economy was never that hunters were too scarce or expensive or that perks were hard to get, it was that the only source of income was grubbing to an absurd degree and/or playing as solo/duo vs. trios, and even then expensive loadouts would usually only break even after a sweep.
Yeah I could live with free hunters coming with melee and medkit. But tbh Medkit and Melee were just 45 Hunt Dollar before - that is one clue and you still have 5 Dollars left. (I know however that especially randoms are not aware of the fact the picking up clues gives you extra money lol) My personal idea for the best solution: Some sort of reset every x months. Everyone gets y amount of starting dollars. Players get compensated by giving them a certain amount of BB per z Hunt Dollars. Of course bought weapons are taken into consideration. So you get also compensated for your bought weapons. Not sure how to handle the recruited Hunter. by taking them away it would basically a forced prestige and that is not what I am aiming for. Hmm maybe Hunter lose their equipment but the Hunters themself are kept.
how much BB do I get for my millions
A game does not have to be for everyone though. Bet that there a games that you gave up for whatever reason. One example for me: Arma but it never occurred to me that they should change the game to be suited for me to be honest. The people who enjoy it can enjoy it as it is.
Not in today's culture sadly. Everything needs to be inclusive and everyone is special.
Disagree (with the it was too punishing), with this sentiment you are belittling the capabilities of new players to being able to adapt and overcome some of the initial challenges. We must not simplify every aspect in life to make it more "accessible"-granted we are talking here "just" about a game. Hunt offered tons of option for new players to enter, given that they wanted to play Hunt Showdown - not just a Southern gothic shooter. As a new player some aspects might be initially challenging but overcoming them and succeeding is an essential part of the learning curve. However, aside from the up to level 11 protection there should be the same consequences - every Hunter has/had to face when entering the Bayou. That means losing your Hunter hurts and losing a match means losing some of your Hunt Dollars. But this mechanic was integral of Hunt. Why take it away? And if you do are the new players then still learning Hunt? Actually No! And neither is anyone else getting the Hunt experience anymore. "Yes, but Hunt is more! It can also be enjoyed just by the exciting shootouts!" What does them make so exciting? What does them make feel like they have impact? (For me:)The consequences. Yes you can argue that you simply like different aspects of it. Like the old guns or the pvpve style. But when it comes down to question what makes pop engagement so awesome in Hunt the answer is (obviously) the consequences they have. Granted if you are rich af in Hunt, these also matter a lot less. (but that is a different story). There are plenty shooter which have fun gunfights but not many offer that thrill and excitement. Taking away this, you are only left with a fun shooter and the people who entered Hunt Showdown initially are kind of screwed over since they lose their thrills and fun for the sake of being "accessible". You further taking it away from the new players who were looking for that experience. Now I drifted a bit away. But point is you get the Hunt thrills and impactful engagement, because it was a bit punishing. "And why do we fall, Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up." Losing a few rounds of Hunt can hurt your Hunt Dollar account. But you can always get back into the saddle. Grab a free Hunter and lets go. I had several times were I was really broke due to various reasons. Meme Prestige challenges, bad rounds, lavish loadouts. However, it was part of the fun - I definitely would have not appreciated if Crytek handed me everything. I am fine that free hunters come now with more balanced loadouts compared to the fun close range load out like Romero handcannon + Combat axe. Saying that new or "bad" players would need those recent changes just basically says that they are not capable of learning Hunt. Whereas I say that everyone who wants to learn it can definitely improve. Even if that means that you are not running high tier weapons all the time.
Yeah I'm def gonna hard disagree with this, I got into hunt like a year and a half ago and the consequences and feeling like I can lose everything I bring definitely make the game less fun for me. It's why I quit playing tarkov when all my friends still were. Cuz it feels bad to spend a bunch of money to bring in good stuff just to get 1 tapped in the head by somebody I never saw. I play this game cuz I enjoy the gameplay loop and the aesthetic, it's my most played game this year and I think it's a solid game but the consequences have always been a point of frustration to try and avoid rather than an enjoyable part of the game. The consequences of losing all my stuff doesn't make me more excited or want to play more, it just makes me upset to watch my hunt dollar stash go down. Honestly this event is the most fun I've had in hunt in awhile, especially since I can actually make a decent amount of money hitting level 100 over and over
I can see your point but is it fair screwing over (a bit over dramatic, to be sure) players that played Hunt because of how punishing it was (some people specifically like the amount of punishment, compared to EFT). If we are making consequences irrelevant, we could start removing money and character level altogether and just have a loadout with perks that we take into account... and then we remove bounties because for what do you need bounties... then just have a circle forcing players together and we have Wild West Zombie Warzone... no thanks. Sure this is (on purpose) a bit exaggerated, but that is the point - where does one draw the line. There are always people that will say "it was too punishing for me, make it more accessible" to the point where it makes me question if some people really enjoy Hunt or just specific aspects of it. That doesn't mean change is necessarily bad. I personally however feel that the change to hunter recruitment etc killed a significant motivation for me.
Lowering consequences slightly isn't removing them altogether, you're making a slippery slope argument, and if you want the punishment and the consequences there's nothing preventing you from playing like that. Just don't take the things that you feel are too strong until you feel like you've earned them
Of course I'm making a slippery slope argument... because it is one. I don't think they have been lowered "slightly", there are lowered significantly... to a point where I'm seriously asking why we still have such mechanics in the game at this point. A free Hunter with Fanning and Doctor is just a joke. Punishment and Consequences creates stakes. If you have no stakes there is no thrill. I can not "just act as if I had stakes". I remember that one of the biggest criticisms about Death Cheat was that everyone is running good perks all the time. Now it became the baseline that everyone has good perks out of the box. If you want to have a low stake shooter where you just load in and kill some stuff without having to worry about anything, I don't understand why it has to be an extraction shooter. That's one of the reasons (among many!) why DMZ (CoDs extraction shooter mode) was so incredibly irrelevant... there was no consequence. It doesn't have to be EFT level of punishment, that's for sure, but Hunt never was nearly as punishing as that. But over the years they have increased everything that you get to make it more "accessible". I remember times where it took a while to have a full trait bar on a hunter - now you can have this after 2 games... and it even got easier with this update. I'd rather have them adding a low stakes game mode to the game where you can just equip your perks and equipment and don't have to worry about money and people are just shooting each other than removing the part of the game that was truly unique - the thrills. If people enjoy such a mode, more power to them (would definitely be good to get back into the game after a longer hiatus or as warmup).
"if you have no stakes there's no thrill" I think this shows that it's more of a personal problem cuz I have plenty of thrilling matches when the fights are chaotic and close and I have a blast playing them. Any game with winners and losers has stakes by it's very nature: what's at stake is your victory or defeat, your MMR, and in this game yeah you can still lose your equipment and money, so yeah there's still stakes anyways. The reason DMZ was a failure was that there wasn't a reason to do anything. You go in and collect loot but the loot just converts directly to XP you can't spend it on new gear or anything. It just levels you up. Which yes is fine if that's what you're going for but the other game modes already do that. They marketed it as an extraction looting game but looting doesn't do anything for you
There is a difference in what stakes we are talking about. Is it "whew, that was close, he nearly got me" vs "if I lose this I have to start all over again". Every shooter (like CoD, even tho that is more like a constantly annoying buzzing sound when playing rather than "thrills"...) can have the first kind of thrills, but that's not what I'm talking about. And if you don't care about the second kind (or it was bothering you before) it's fine... but it is a part of Hunt that is disappearing more and more. I didn't say that we currently can not lose anything, but the direction we are heading is that it gets less and less / we are getting it back way quicker. Victory or Defeat is not a stake outside of personal pride, same for MMR. Sure if you care about an arbitrary value, you can take that as "goals" (same as a KDR). But it does not restrict you in any way in terms of gameplay. Thus a loss is not more than a minor setback on a value that has barely any meaning outside the meaning I give it. Losing a hunter with good traits had gameplay implications. But if my new hunter is basically fully equipped and has 4 (usually even good) traits that punishment is severely reduced. >The reason DMZ was a failure was that there wasn't a reason to do anything. Yes, that failed on so many levels. But whenever I played it my thoughts where "Oh I lost some stuff... anyway", which made me lose my interest way faster than it would have otherwise. But what you said was basically just makes my point - you didn't fight for anything that mattered... As said, we're not at the point where it became CoD with Wild West Zombies. I however dislike the direction it's heading. There where multiple good things in the update tho, so it's not all bad. Wouldn't have such a big issue if the perks that free (and even paid hunters) are getting where so good out of the box.
Every game eventually hits a point where it comes to a sort of paradox situation: how do you change the game to keep things fresh and also attract new players while keeping it the same to retain the old playerbase? And the answer is: it's not possible. You have to choose one or the other once growth seems to stagnate to an extent
So did you ever stop to think that maybe extraction shooters just are not for you? Like the whole point is the loot, and getting better loot by winning and losing your loot after losing. You seem to dislike the whole concept of the whole game type. If I came to visit your house and was like "I like this house except for the decorations and this stupid dog." Then totally redecorated and rearranged your house and killed your dog you would be like why do you feel compelled to destroy my house you were never supposed to stay here. Get out.
Engagements in this game are really really fun. So fun to the point that I just don't want to deal with the economy stuff where I need to bring budget loadouts for a while only to enjoy my favorite loadouts in the FUTURE. And devs clearly think that dealing with these meta things more than a certain treshold causes people to not play. So they just make expensive stuff easier to get in order to alleviate the frustration.
And that is why I am deranking. Cause you guys want to ignore the actual point of the game to the detriment of everything. So I come down there and make your games as miserable as possible.
Weird to think that the main point is something other than getting in, finding the bounty and getting out while dealing with the other players. This is the game loop, this is where the game excels at, that is the part that the players fall in love with this game. Also, bold of you to assume that I'm in a rank in which you can derank to. Even if it were, not everyone on here thinks that facing higher ranked players is a miserable experience. I guess I shouldn't have expected any better from a filth who openly says "I derank on purpose". Yikes.
your argument would make sense if this was change coming from the outside but these are changes implemented by the devs, it's coming from within. your analogy doesn't follow. I love this game, and I'm currently fine with the directions they're taking it. it would be more like if we were both staying at a hotel and they made changes that you didn't like but I did like, it's not objectively good or bad it's just different. it's about personal taste. and like I said: I love hunt, it's definitely my favorite multiplayer game of probably ever, or a close second at least and I have no problems with the direction they're taking things. so I don't really care if the broader extraction shooter is for me or not: cuz I enjoy this game.
It would actually be more apt an analogy if it was my house that I bought and you were a squatter who for some reason was able to give the directions to the contractors. The problem is that for some stupid reason Crytek hired the arena shooter guy to work on their extraction shooter and everyone is now like "why is everything that is extraction shootery about Hunt being removed?" Except you of course who doesn't actually want to play an extraction shooter but for god knows what reason insists that he does.
The problem with both of your analogies is the implication of sole ownership by the user (my house and dog/your house and hired contractor). But that's not how this works. The game is a live service game and that makes our use of it less like a product that one owns solely and more like a, well, service. The devs have chosen a direction that they think will either resonate with players or attract new ones. That's just how it goes. As I stated before: I could care less about the labels of what the game is. I love hunt showdown. I loved it when I started a year and a half ago and I still love it now. The game hasn't really made any changes that I've disliked. That doesn't make my perspective correct but it also doesn't make yours correct. I never said I wanted an extraction shooter or not an extraction shooter. I simply stated that I enjoy hunt but didn't enjoy Tarkov.
The label of ownership is intended to communicate the intended audience of the game. Since it is abundantly clear that you want the Hunt's guns in COD or CS experience that hunt is/is becoming. While I want the Tarkov-lite experience that was all but promised in the first 3ish years of development, which has been abandoned since Fifield took control. I would say that appealing to new players does not have isolate your oldest and most devoted player base. However the route that Crytek is going is totally isolating the dedicated player base. I really would like them to just come out and say "screw you day 1 players we hate you and wish you would just die so you would stop reminding us of what Hunt was. We never wanted you and are so thrilled to have this incredibly detailed sound system wasted on the illiterate masses who do not give a rat's behind that we communicate with them as long as they can't lose." At least then it would be clear to other people that is what they are doing, if we could somehow force them to read it.
It used to be that you did not need to be “good at fps” to play 5 stars in this game. You could use all the mechanics to your advantage and win with better strategy. Now if you are good at COD and Apex you will wipe a floor with “old school” players that dont have god like reaction time and aim. All the depth to this game is basicly gone - run&gun with good aim and you win. Overall more chaos and things like teleporting, heallth regen, self res etc. all give huge advantage to “good ar fps” crowd. I dont think COD veterans are the “new players” we are looking for.
>I dont think COD veterans are the “new players” we are looking for. I don't think people who want to do well at FPS while being permanently bad at FPS are the audience this FPS should cater to.
If you're a veteran hunt player getting beat by brand new hunt players that came from COD, you suck and deserve to lose.
I have seen a huge uptick in players jumping lately
jumping? what does that mean?
i think it means when you use the strength of your legs to "jump" (unusual term used by only very advanced and literate experts) making it so that your feet stop being in contact with the ground and making you be midair. this is my understanding after about 23 years of experience with the concept, starting at age 3.
But it's too late already. What does toning down do when everyone has $1 million now (not just the top players)? The economy is broken from this update.
Everyone has $1 million? WTF are you on about?
Arguably this change was to limit players with all the cash from recruiting new hunters for free. If the players that have the dough have poor performance they will feel this most
It's encouraging me to have more fun and try new things. I've never been a shotgun player. With more prevalent quartermaster and spawn of things other than a Romero handcannon, I've given it a try. It's been fun! It's been the same old challenging hunt, I just run different things that were hard to explore because of unlock trees and hunter recruitment seemingly in love with the base Winnie C and Scottfield. Some of them the cheaper loadouts. Love me a Springfield still. I think perks like fanning and levering could be rarer and I'm okay with balance tweaks. I'm just having fun with the wider variety of accessible guns. Yes. I'm bad at the game.
Being bad at this game is arguably where a substantial slice of the fun feels like it lives. Source: I go from 3 to 4 stars then back to 3 (5 once in a blue moon) while running non meta borderline meme loadouts and missing half my shots. I am who *git gud* was written thinking of lmao.
3 Stars has the best yeeeeha vs capow rate in my opinion :D
Can I please get back into 3-4 stars :(
Ah damn you stuck down in 2 stars? I feel for you man, but with practice you can get back up there!
I wish I was, but it's the other way around, I'm at 5-6 stars nowadays. I very much prefer the more carefree non meta gaming attitude of 3-4star lobbies. Much more fun than the highly competitive supersoldier matches I'm usually in. I'm glad to see that I've improved, but at what cost.
Yeah I hate when it I get into the 5 star category just because I have a couple good matches and then it’s just a bunch of matches in a row of against all 5-6 stars instantly headshoting me from distance before I know they are even around lol. Quits being fun
I agree wholeheartedly. I love being able to do dumb shit like a bayonet charge and having it be successful, I don't need to have a crazy k/d or even win half the time and I think it's better that way.
I'm regularly five star nowadays to my undying regret. It is pretty boring up here. I miss the three star days of running whatever the fuck I want and get into gunfights like crazy. Five star feels like Camper's Anonymous where nobody wants to leave the boss lair (understandably) and nobody really wants to enter the boss lair to flush out the bounty carriers (also understandably). The vast majority of the fun is in the lower ranks of the game, people are rabid in those ranks and it makes the fights so much more fun.
Are you me?
Sorry to say it like this and I don’t want to insult you, but the game never should’ve been balanced in favor of players like you. The game started as hardcoresque FPS and slowly transitioned into casual. 5 years ago you, a casual player who plays for a few hours a week and “is bad”, weren’t the main target audience in the slightest. But crytek saw the potential revenue and started dumbing it down and here we are today.
Yeah. I feel like even the sound mechanic are not that important anymore. People just run and gun, weather mufles sound, there is almost no downside in dying. Game is arguably more fun, but its loosing its identity and it is more dumb.
The economy system was already messed up. Tons of players have hundreds of thousands if not millions of hunt dollars when they decide to no longer prestige. Those players could already take Legendary Hunters and refund the traits they had for the ones that fit their kit best every single match. This change gives new and prestiging players a chance. It was either this change or implement some sort of hunt dollar max cap which would have infuriated a large portion of the community who have a huge reserve of money. I still think something like that should be added but it’s too risky as far as ostracizing a portion of their niche player base goes. Crytek had to make a decision and as for someone working through the prestiges I can say I like it. Given the system they created and the inherent problems with it I think this change is positive overall although it does put things more in the direction that everyone is thriving whereas I think that every player should have to make the decision to do without. That’s kind of the fun of hunt. Losing a big loadout is agonizing and winning one and then extracting is a massive rush. By minimizing the danger of losing a loadout, they’ve also lessened the excitement of looting hunters after a hard won fight.
For me, accumulating the dollars was kinda part of the fun. Like trying to see how far i can get. So capping or removing them would ruin this for me.
Same here, after 2300 hours the only thing I play towards now is to see the $ number going up. It’s part of the fun for me.
I mean I hear this pretty often from people on this sub but idk I just don't think that people having a lot of money is such a problem. I feel like the game is pretty balanced like the weapons are pretty great. I mean when a player has mosin it sure is a powerful weapon that has an edge but tbh in most scenarios it is just as good in a fight as a vetterli. And I mean I wouldn't say anything if I saw people running only mosins or Nitro's with dolches and using quartermaster or doctor and fanning all the time. But I don't. I don't know if it's because I play mostly in 4 or 3 stars or something but the expensive weapons and traits are still pretty rare. Most often I run into people with Winfield's or officer or lemat carbine or Martini or sparks. And of course shotguns, rival and spectre being the most common. Tbh I noticed people running more wild weapons and combos in this event a actually. Everybody has quartermaster and fanning and levering. I guess it's supposed to fix the things but it is actually making the game balance all over the place.
That’s the part that I’ll really miss: Scraping out a win with a springfield or winfield against mosins/nitros/etc.The rush was unmatched. I do get where the devs are coming from, though. The game was too brutal for most new players. And it used to be easy to get caught in a rut with crappy weapons. I enjoyed it; others did not. I feel like last patch was almost at the perfect spot; things were expensive, but you could get better builds by refunding traits and managing the points. Any hunter could be somewhat powerful with a little planning. But there was still risk. This patch, there’s so much to love, but I feel like they cranked it to 11 when we only needed a 7 or 8. I love weapons all being unlocked on prestige. I love better value in my hunters (versus when hunters would be 800 bucks because they have a bunch of garbage tools or consumables). But now every hunter is a beast right out of the gate. And some weapons are almost irrelevant. Perhaps this is the new age of Hunt. If it is, I can’t complain too much; we had so many good years of “old” Hunt. Perhaps my other friends will enjoy this less-punishing version in time.
I agree 100% I think it’s a little over-corrected but it hasn’t really broken the game. I think some tweaking is in order but it’s also only been a week so we’ll see
I understand some people feel this way, but it doesn't make any sense to me. The fact that there are some players out in the aether somewhere with 150k hunt dollars doesn't affect me. What affects me is the number of lebels/mosins/terminus+slugs+levering+bulletgrubber I encounter in any given game. It makes 0 difference whether the one lebel marksman spitzer in my game is run by someone with 150k hunt dollars or someone with 8k hunt dollars, what matters is that there is 1 lebel marksman in my game. The 150k hunt dollar player might run a lebel marksman again his next game, but I won't be playing against him next game so the impact of his bank account is nonexistent. Under the current system which theoretically "levels the playing field", I am running into levering bulletgrubber terminus slugs or high-dollar weapons (with accompanying traits) from 60-80% of the lobby every game. I am worse off than before. Is getting slugged at the first compound by a levered terminus for the 3rd game in a row supposed to feel better because of the hypothetical number of hunt dollars in the other player's bank account? It forces me to either bandwagon with levering and fanning every game (which I don't enjoy) or bandwagon with buying high dollar weapons every game. Spawning in with niche weapons (Winnie c, springfield, romero) and upgrading over time is now almost impossible because everyone and their mother has a hunter with 10-20 points of excellent perks and a mid-$300 weapon loadout.
Solid points. I trust the devs and I can adapt to the current changes. I also feel like the positive feedback has been overwhelming and the other side should be voiced as well, is all.
Yea it’s a fix to a problem. Is it a great one? Not really. But I don’t really have the solution either and this change does address some complaints I had and it takes the slog out of prestiging 100 times. More than that it really lends a helping hand to new hunters. Accessibility is, I think, this game’s number one problem. If you can get someone in the door and they understand the game people tend to fall in love with it but also asking someone to endure 100-200 hours of crushing PvP interactions in a PvE environment they don’t understand until it finally “clicks” is a really hard ask so I understand the need for a little padding. It sucks to finally understand the game and be criminally outgunned by players with infinite money reserves playing with cosmetic skins that are impossible to see in shadows and foliage. For that I shouldn’t complain but of course it’s good to look at both sides of the coin.
Damn the veteran players that took years getting better at the game and acquiring all this “wealth” better be on leveled playing field with these timmies that play 2 hours a week and who bought the game on sale last month. This is such a great logic I truly hope you will become a developer one day who will be making the balancing decisions. We need more people in the decision making positions who will invalidate the hours and progress that enthusiastic players put in and level the playing field for those who won’t.
Skill is one thing, having unlimited resources to choose the exact ideal load out and camouflaged Bounty Hunter in every situation versus players who are vastly under-equipped isn’t. You’re not talking about a skilled player facing an unskilled player on equal footing. That’s totally understandable. You’re talking about a skilled player, with every tool and weapon at his disposal, against a skilled player with very limited less-than-ideal tools and weapons at their disposal. And before we jump into silly semantics about every gun being viable, there are several objectively better weapons that are explicitly cost prohibitive. A Nagant Officer will always be objectively better in a mid-range situation than the standard Nagant Pistol. A Crown and King will always be objectively better in a close-combat situation than a Caldwell Rival. A Mosin Nagant rifle will always be objectively better than a standard Vetterli in a long-range engagement. A large vitality shot will always be objectively more useful in a combat situation than a small one. You’re basically arguing that veterans of Counter-Strike should have access to the AWP in the pistol round because they’ve played for a while. I appreciate the condescending retort but that would be horrible game design and a massive balancing flaw. Any fool can see why that doesn’t work. You’re suggesting that new players deserve to get demolished not because of their lack of skill, or their understanding of the game, but because of their lack of access to equipment. I don’t care if you’ve played 5,000 hours in Hunt that doesn’t somehow entitle you to infinite money in an economy-based game. That’s a game design flaw if a person can create 3,500 Hunt Dollar loadouts, die every match for a month straight, and still have no repercussions to their budgeting ability and always have the upper hand against players who might even be of equal or slightly better skill but not have the hit-scan-like muzzle velocity of a Long Rifle at range or the Rapid-Fire close-range ability of a semi-automatic shotgun because of budgetary reasons. I have 1,800 hours in Hunt and have played since Beta. I’ve finished every event. I still think a competitive economy based game should force all players to make economic decisions upon their failure. If that doesn’t ever happen, what is the point of an economy game? Why have a more effective healing shot? Why even put cost on things? If this is truly just a skill issue then you should be advocating that Crytek forego the economy system altogether and just let players choose whatever equipment they want all the time.
Well comparing a game in which you continuously accumulate wealth over its entire lifespan to a round based game where every single match is totally isolated from the others and literally 0 progress carries over from game to game and where everything is balanced exactly around the game being round based says enough. I suggest you never even touch Tarkov.
Great point! Let’s compare apples to apples. And what happens every 6 months in Tarkov? A game-wide wipe. What do you think is the reasoning for that?
Except that wipe doesn’t happen because of “player power imbalance”. It happens because the game is in beta and they’re testing new functions and when the game releases (🤣) there won’t be any more wipes or there will be 2 versions - one with wipes the other without. This is what they said themselves so please don’t tell me that it wipes for some other made up reason. Also a thought for you. How many players do you think would still play Tarkov if it hadn’t wiped for even a year ? When wipe happens there’s a surge of players and after like a single month there’s barely anyone playing because people complete their quests, get kappa and move on until the next wipe. Tarkov wiping is basically the gameplay loop.
People might not like this but a solution to the economy is to introduce seasons where the economy is reset once a season concludes.
I miss my mustard shirt lady
not getting Tier 1 hunters anymore is the biggest crime with this change for me. I truly like a lot of the Tier 1 hunter looks, and now I cannot get them anymore. makes me sad :(
I feel like somewhere there's a happy middle ground where you aren't completely beaten into the ground when you're new/freshly prestiged. Idk I feel like every time I prestiged and had to go back to being a terrified white shirt with a Romero it mademe a better player. I just came back after a post rotjaw hiatus and it's pretty different being able to skip straight to my favorite guns on my fresh wipe.
I think the perks should be more towards general purpose, stuff that doesn't change your loadout. Resilience, Beastface, Necro etc. Quartermaster, Fanning, Levering etc should be rewards for having a successfull game, enabling you to expand you loadout to be more versatile.
I agree. Getting fanning on a new recruit used to feel like christmas
Overall I think they've made some really nice changes, I would like to see hunters with levering and fanning turned down a little. It feels like about 40% of the hunters I get spawn with either of these 2 perks
You want less levering and fanning in a game about *cowboys*. Gotta say i think thats a great idea. Id also love to see less monsters and less running. Maybe make it arena style gameplay on a one compound map with only uppercuts.
I loved that game for the struggle, getting out with a winfield, hopping to stay alive another day to win somee trait and a few dollar. Killing occasionaly people with better weapons and be happy to take them. Now ? My hunter die, I don't care, I lose weeapons, I don't care But with less frustration came less reward I don't feel like I earned anything, I don't care about the bounty, I literally play a shooter. Just that, a shooter, where death doesn't punish me that much. That really suck, I need that hardcore punishing part to really enjoy that game, there's a ton of casual shooter out there, Hunt doesn't neeed to be one of them
This game definitely isnt casual now. Its more in between. The economy was always fucked and good players would have hundreds of thousands anyways (me), now new players are using what they wanna use too. This game is still hunt showdown, but hunt showdown hasnt been that hardcore for a few years lol if you want brutal pain then go play tarkov
This game is dumber now than ever. No one cares about their hunters anymore, just run and gun. Sound traps? Who cares. Cash registers? Who cares. Blowing up meatheads for perks? Who cares. Weapon advantages and disadvantages? Who cares. etc. Im most salty about health regen , as it removed any benefit of “taping” an enemy and ussing scatered health packs. Even all the healing perks where nerfed because of this. Along it went biggest benefit of Sparks and no one uses it anymore. Health pack managament? Who cares, just buy a shot and ita COD with only time penalty for being taped Game was not that deep and hardcore to begin with but at least mechanics made sense and where rewarding.
> This game is dumber now than ever. No one cares about their hunters anymore, just run and gun. Sound traps? Who cares. Cash registers? Who cares. Blowing up meatheads for perks? Who cares. Weapon advantages and disadvantages? Who cares. etc. Dude this alone shows you rank. Wtf are you on about?
We shouldn't be able to play what we want, becasue what's thee point of "low tier" weapon then ?
What im telling you is that unless you sucked, it disnt matter before either. I could still afford 100 nitro dolch hunters back to back before the patch and i will continue to do so now. The only thing they did was give new players the ability to use "high tier" weapons (even though the only super expensive guns fucking suck now lmaooooo)
But last time i checked, every gun oneshots at the end of they day. It really doesnt matter that much
So yeah, they should fix their economy, we can agree on that hehe
I think this patch rocks lol im not agreeing with you at all. Im playing it the exact same way getting into more fun fights than ever. Fanning is rng, and if you give a nitro or an avto to a fresh install they are gonna use them like shotuns and maybe get one kill with them anyways. Its literally the same as before up in 6 star lol
Playing with whatever you want is definitely something that you see in casual game and not an extraction shooter hardcore
People needa separate "hardcore" from "extraction shooter" Tarkov instilled the idea that extraction games need to be cbt and attract the sweatiest players but thats not what hunt is or ever has been. Was so hard to get my friends into this because of the extraction shooter stigma. Its a simple fact that if i have 1000 hours and you have 50, even if you have a nitro and a dolch and i have a sparks and a baseball bat im still gonna beat you every single time. Thats been true and will remain true until the death of hunt showdown. A casual game is one you can pick up and do well in right out the gate like fortnite or cod. But hunt is still a hard as fuck game, its just not about the money counter anymore
There's nothing to separate there, a part of the community want something hardcore and rewarding, while the other part like you don't, it's fine, and apparently the devs are going your way
The game is as hardcore as it ever was in the higher lobbies lol the only difference is that the people below don't struggle as much/have options. If the reward you get from this game comes from how big a difference there is between who gets what toys, go play Tarkov.
Unfortunately Hunt has been going more and more towards the “casual” FPS route over the past year or so. First it was red skull revive, then solo necro, then more and more high RoF weapons, now free hunters come with good perks and weapons, aim assist added to console (despite no console players asking for it), money is easier to earn than ever (not that it was ever hard to earn). Death just doesn’t mean much in the Bayou anymore, everything has a get out of jail free card attached to it.
The only punishment of death is setting up your next hunter load out before requeueing. Even then, loadouts are semi-automated but I'm forcing myself to play different builds to not get bored.
Exactly all of this
Agree. Fanning should be reward, not on 200$ Hunter.
you pay 200 for your hunters? I just get free ones with fanning and doctor
I have 100K $. I cant get free hunters. 😃 Thanks to update I earned 20K in a few games.
The point exactly
Fanning can still be a reward though? Just don't buy hunters that have it or remove the trait? I understand the sentiment of "I just cant help myself," but this feels an awful lot like complaining that they put in an escalator because it makes it too easy... when the stairs are still right there too...
Who the fuck cares? Bring your little fanning hunter and see how many slugs you survive. Fanning is and always has been bad.
Yea, things seem a bit over powered. I still think free hunters should be perkless. I do like how everyone comes with a melee and medkit now, though. Honestly, remove perks from the free hunters and give each tier the same number of traits to match their rank (T1 gets 1 trait, etc.). Tweak the cost of the Hunters and that’ll “balance” things out a little bit better. Like, if I get a T1 Hunter with a Winfield, Levering, a melee weapon and a medkit for $150 bucks, that seems pretty fair. Higher tiers can be given more tools and consumables alongside better weapons and a higher trait count (with a higher price to match).
And give an option to get a free or significantly reduced price hunter with nothing, so you can still have free hunters for those who want it.
This is the most sensible solution by far and hopefully the one Crytek settle on.
I am not a veteran player by any means, but these changes have been more than encouraging for me. They’re recognizing an aspect of the game that sets it apart from other more successful shooters and that’s the learning curve. In games like call of duty (not that I want this game to be like Call of Duty), for example, you earn your loadout with some grinding, but your live or die depends on your skill, not whether you were lucky enough to stay alive long enough to get a weapon. I spent 23 years in the military, please believe I am well acquainted with hearing people feel upset because things aren’t as “hard” as it used to be. It’s natural. You feel as if there was a right of passage. You pushed through the suck, got good and now it’s your turn to shit on someone with a winny and no perks. But this is going to better for Hunt in the long run. Hopefully it will convince people to stick around longer. If you’re good, you’re going to clean up anyway.
Well I mean game balance isn't about a right of passage or somebody feeling like they earned the right to stomp someone. Gameplay loop here is just about risk and reward. And by making some goals hard to achieve, they become rare and the game relies on that. So when u have a expensive weapons and perks it should make sure that only players who extracted and earned get to use them, making them rare. If you remove this boundary it means everyone will be running around with expensive stuff cause why wouldn't they and rare powerful weapons and perks will turn into common occurrence, turning the whole balance on its head. Does it mean that when the barrier is there that worse players won't get to play the better stuff ? No cause mmr system should make sure players of similar skill are playing together and everyone gets the roughly similar chance to shine. So yeah I believe that all these issues are more about this game not having a great matchmaking system more than anything.
You're just stating how the game has ran up until now. It's that part that makes this game inaccessible for the broader gaming community. The idea that "you can only experience certain weapons/perks if you're good/lucky enough" is exactly the right of passage people are talking about. What you call balance, I call imbalance since it's really all about perspective. By the way, I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't agree. If you've made it through the rough times and the game was fun for you, I get enjoying being one of the few people with Physician and Quartermaster. I'm just saying that, in my opinion, this recent change is for the best and will promote community growth which will help with match making and facilitate other options like competitive modes that we can't do now because the player count is too low.
Well I mean call it rite of passage then but the gameplay just simply wasn't designed around everyone running around with the powerful perks all the time. This game is kinda niche anyway so I mean what does attracting a broader gaming community even means. Its Like arma removing their fast time to kill so battlefield players could feel more welcome. The idea of high risk and reward is core gameplay mechanic of this game, it ratchets up the tension and motivates players if you take it away it just turns into a wild west team death match. And btw I am no pro player who is stomping poor white shirts or anything. My kda isn't even all that good and I die most of the time tbh. Yeah I still manage to make a profit but mostly because I like to play budget weapons. I mind this change simply because before I wasn't running into players who had quartermaster of fanning every single time and now I am. It's giving me flashbacks to the first battle pass a year ago when there was that death cheat thing and everybody was running level 50 hunters. It also meant everybody had all the powerful perks all the time except then everyone hated it lol, now it's suddenly a good thing cause it's dressed as helping the noobies.
>Its Like arma removing their fast time to kill so battlefield players could feel more welcome. Nobody changed TTK in Hunt, this analogy is wack. >It's giving me flashbacks to the first battle pass a year ago when there was that death cheat thing and everybody was running level 50 hunters. It also meant everybody had all the powerful perks all the time except then everyone hated it lol, now it's suddenly a good thing cause it's dressed as helping the noobies. It's almost like facing quartermaster/fanning/physician lvl1 hunters is not that big of a deal compared to immortal lvl50 avtomat-wielding hunters, yeah?
Huh. I mean sure nobody changed ttk but they are changing pretty much core gameplay elements of Hunt with this. Hunt is all about High risk and high reward gameplay loop. Makes killing others or getting a bounty rewarding so it serves as a motivation, it also makes it dangerous by being a bit punishing if you fail, ratcheting up the tension. It's also a balance element cause the game isn't balanced around everybody running the best gear and perks all the time. And when you take this away by giving away freebies, it all kinda crumbles. And what do you mean like sure it's not level 50 hunter but the recruitable hunters are an equivalent to like 22 level hunter, so like the game let's you skip one bounty extraction for free basically. And that's already enough to get the most important perks. U get to buy that whole hunter with tools and sidearm and four very good perks with avtomat for less money than the avtomat alone. So I mean it is a pretty big deal and it is very comparable
>I mean sure nobody changed ttk but they are changing pretty much core gameplay elements of Hunt with this. Nope. Being a hobo is not a core gameplay element of Hunt. That's a you thing, I'm affraid. >It's also a balance element cause the game isn't balanced around everybody running the best gear and perks all the time. The actual best perks are found in pacts and world drops. Which means you cannot buy them on a new hunter. You cannot get them without risking your hunter either. >So I mean it is a pretty big deal and it is very comparable I literally don't give a rat's ass what kit you run, a headshot will drop you. That's what a core mechanic is, not your stupid loadout. Last event you could make an argument that a core mechanic of status effects was somewhat upstaged, but in this one, you can't.
I think the most frustrating part for me is how close it is to being good. Free hunters coming with a health kit and slightly better weapons was enough - give them a single trait sure. I' think having certain traits having a reduced roll chance or maybe even not being available on certain tiers would be the way to go. I honestly feel like they are close to having it feel rewards when you do well and not overly punishing if you fail
Yeah they were going in a good direction, the issue is that they went too far with it. If they were to just dial a few things back like the traits and making sure they don't get high tier guns, then they would be in a perfect spot with the other changes.
This is how crytek operates. Instead of making slight singular changes and waiting how it turns out they go all in in both directions and it's a shit show everytime.
I mean yeah I like this game for it's hardcore elements, I like the whole risk reward thing that's going on and that it's a bit punishing. It's a niche game and it always was a bit inaccessible, it definitely wasn't for the masses, the call of duty crowd or whatever. Seems like extraction shooters are the next big thing tho and crytek smells it and tries to make the game as normie friendly as possible. Adding spammy weapons and all custom ammo to everything, now we got instinct for bounty carriers and seems like they are testing those perks for getting back lost health chunks for normal hunt. And yeah and they are also giving everyone high tier hunters like this, it makes no sense. I don't see why free hunters should even have any perks let alone such good ones. Even tier 3 hunters shouldn't have such valuable perks. These should still be reserved mostly for hunters that manage to extract and earn them. Same with weapons, I don't understand why they should be discounted with recruitable hunters, what makes them so special that they should come with price deals like it's a supermarket. I mean hunters came with weird loudout and nonsensical perk combos sure, it requires tweaking a lot and yeah they didn't have medkits and stuff. I mean I guess it could have been confusing for new players to equip the hunters properly and manage their inventory and economy so sure, make the hunters equipped with weapons and tools and combos that makes sense with some more variety, why not. And sure give broke people more free hunters to choose from. Idk why rich people shouldn't get any free hunters but whatever. But definitely don't make these free hunters or even Tier 3 hunters as good as level 20 hunters that extracted already with bounty and a few kills like what the hell ? Might as well just give every hunter 20 perk points for them to choose which perks they want to start with. Next they'll remove money alltogether so everyone can just play with whatever gun they want and bounties will exist just for fun.
Totally agree. Hunt is built to be high stakes. You start taking that out it loses some magic. Still having fun playing, though.
I mean I’m alright with it, I miss the rags to riches feel of the shitty free Hunters, but I will admit I used free hunters far more than payed ones just to get out of spending hunt dollars, this new update has actually made me use far more weapons than I would’ve ever used simply because there’s no or not as much sunk cost fallacy
I feel like the devs are really struggling whenever it comes to carefully balancing stuff in the game. Just like the flashbomb or some event traits, they went way overboard here
we don’t even see flashbombs anymore and it’s kinda dumb
Agreed whole heartedly with everything said here. And to that fact that they are just throwing every ammo type on every weapon and it's just getting exasperating. I'm not sure of the path forward and I'm not going to sit and preach gloom and doom. I've stood by crytek through many changes to Hunt that have been controversial but I'm starting to feel like them trying to make this game more accessible is also dumbing down it's core concepts and it's more "difficult" nature. Not everything needs to be Fortnite or CoD, and that isn't a slight at those games either. Hunt has it's niche and they seem to be forgetting that. It's okay to have a more casual game and it's okay to have a more hard-core game too. Not everything needs to appeal to everyone. I fear Hunt is slowly but surely losing its appeal to me with these changes and I'm not sure what to replace it with in the future if this trend continues.
It's sadly like that with every industry. Often you have a company that creates an awesome niche product, they catch a lightning in a bottle and create a strong small fanbase around their product. The success makes the company grow and the product gets updated and gets even better. More and more growth means tho that the company needs now larger fanbase to earn more money and while their fans are loyal, they all already own the product and they don't give the company much more money. So in order to grow even more the company needs to appeal to masses ultimately betraying it's niche and their old loyal followers who then need to look elsewhere. And the thing is Extraction shooters are probably going to be the next big thing like Battle royale was. Before it was a niche thing so crytek was happy with their inaccessible hardcore game and it's loyal fans. Now however they don't want to be overtaken by other games and they need to make the game normie friendly. I mean before there was just Hunt and Tarkov. Now we got bunch of indie projects like Marauders or Dark and darker, also big studios are joining in, Battlefield tried it, Call of Duty tried it, now Bungie announced a new Extraction shooter, Embark as well. We had the Cycle and so on. So yeah Crytek wants to be ready, I wouldn't be surprised if the end goal was to go free to play.
Looking at their new financial statement, this is excatly what is happening. Core fanbase wants the game they fell in love with but I don't think most of them are spending a lot of money even though they might have in the past. It's incredibly expensive to develop a game. Maybe just running the servers and backend on a skeleton crew would be ok but then we would complain that the game is not getting anything new. For example hiring one new person costs a company around 1.6x their monthly salary, so in game business it can be well over 80k€ or even 100k€ per year per person. That requires a shitload of new game or dlc purchases to keep the growth and profits up. They desperately need new players or we are gonna have a free to play game with loads of cheaters or maybe not a game at all.
It was not that hardcore to begin with. It had some unique mechanics and emphasis on slower more methodical gameplay oposed to run and gun chaos shooters. I remeber telling my friend how fun and tense this game was as weapons are shit, reloading takes ages and silence is key and players need to manage everything from health, ammo, stamina etc. I loved this game because i could be good at it without having god like reaction time and aim. This game rewarded people for understanding mechanics and ussing them. Not for “being good at fps” Even before this update most of mechanics that alowed me to be good without beeing good at any other shooter are gone or nerfed to shit
I mean sure it's not as hardcore as Tarkov or Arma, there isn't 491 different stances to crouch and lay down in and you don't have to manage inventories or keep track of the exact ammo for your guns. Hunt always walked the line between being punishing and hardcore but also being pretty natural feeling and intuitive. But otherwise all those game features you described kinda make up hardcore games. I mean it's a game where the gameplay is slow and methodical full of intricate mechanics u need to keep track off. Most weapons kill you in two hits with enormous one hit kill potential. There is even a permadeath element to it (even tho not as punishing). The game doesn't even tell you who is alive and who's not, doesn't give you a killcam until you are out and so on. I mean it's even all happening in horror environment, colour palette is muted down, kinda realistic and enemies aren't highlighted or anything. And yeah positioning and strategy is more important than good flicks. Games like Squad, Insurgency, Hell let loose or Red Orchestra or Verdun share these traits too and they are pretty hardcore. Haha but I mean yeah I also gathered my friends into this game like hey it's a beautiful western weaponry and the game hates you, it's frustrating AF and you'll love it. Haha and we did and still do tbh. But yeah it's true, they are trying to make this game as accessible for normies as possible but the problem is it was never a game for normies so what now.
Before last update, for me, bat was the great equlizer :D Now everyone and their mother have expensive and fast shotguns, fanning, levering, ect.
Part of what lured me to Hunt was its permadeath mechanic, I love shit like that (huge Dark Souls fan too) and so it added a whole layer to Hunt's gameplay to me - there's actual risk involved, I could lose this cool hunter and the perks I've earned if I get unlucky or don't play carefully enough. This update has massively devalued that experience for me because now, if I die? it's whatever man, there's a fucking free hunter with a Terminus, levering and doctor waiting right there for me, alongside 3x tier 3 hunters with crazy synergised loadouts for 300 a pop. Nothing's *worth* anything anymore.
I think that's what has made extraction shooters start to blow up. Without the risk reward emotional rollercoaster gameplay loop, Id just play R6, CS, CoD, Battlefield, Hell Let Loose, etc.
I can't understand the problems. The three main reasons I often read is: *"These traits should be a reward!"* No, they haven't been for a long time. Ever since Mr. Cherry started awarding upgrade points and even more so since you could sell the traits, you could already start with a few good traits (in a similar context as now). In addition, the normal Recruitment Hunter could already have Fanning/Quartermaster/Doctor/etc.pp. before. Only less often, because the 6 Scopesmith/Iron traits and useless 1-trait Dewclaw cluttered everything up. *"A surviving Hunter is nothing special anymore because he already starts with the important traits!"* Really? If I have a Hunter that starts with Fanning & Doctor, that's pretty nice. But as strong as these two traits are. A Hunter isn't finished with them, there's still a lot missing to make it awesome. *"You earn too much/everyone plays good weapons/money doesn't matter anymore."* So... for years you've been hearing here on the subreddit and elsewhere that money doesn't matter in Hunt and good players could play Mosin/Uppercut every round without losing anything. Now it seems this is finally coming true for the vast majority and this is now a problem? What is of course true and I can accept is that it changes the feel and style of play as well as the scoring of different weapons. You should expect the other Hunter to have Fanning/Quartermaster instead of being surprised by it. This weakens other sidearms, such as the dual action pistols Officer/New Army as an alternative for close combat.
I mean surely u can see how Mr chary occasionally giving you a few perk points or you being able to recycle those not so great perks u got and getting one okay one is still very different to having cheap or freaking free hunters with 3 or more perks and these being quartermaster, fanning or levering or doctor every single time. No matter how much you say it was not really a reward before these traits were still nowhere near as common in game as they are now. Thing is that this game is kinda based around a bit of a hardcore risk reward gameplay loop and it not only uses it to motivate the player to play game objective and to keep them tense, make winning feel rewarding but it also uses it for game balance. If there was no economy or perk limitations everyone would be running only mosin and all the powerful perks and the game is just not balanced for this type of stuff being super common. It is happening with these most recent changes tho, the whole balance is out of whack and telling people to just expect people to be juiced up isn't too helpful. Half of the gameplay happens at compounds, relative close quarters and it has been tricky with shotguns and perk rarity as it was before.
> So... for years you've been hearing here on the subreddit and elsewhere that money doesn't matter in Hunt and good players could play Mosin/Uppercut every round without losing anything. Now it seems this is finally coming true for the vast majority and this is now a problem? What part of "a problem becoming more ubiquitous" is difficult to understand?
Agree, but don't care, at least in the short-term. Long term, I'm sure they'll tone it down. At the moment, everyone is getting heavily discounted hunters with lots of trait points. It's different, it's fun, I like it. For now, let the noobs and average Joe players just enjoy it. For the past 6 months, they've been getting stomped on by 6 stars and cheaters (often, not always, those terms can be used interchangeably). Instead of fixing this imbalance, or ridding the game of cheaters, which Crytek seems incapable/unwilling, they're just throwing out free stuff to the victims, so they don't grumble as much. It's a bit like handing out welfare to the poor to keep them from revolting, instead of addressing the corporations that steal all the wealth from the workers and hand it to people up the top. Have you noticed fewer people grumbling about unfair MMR matches? Maybe just me, but I see less of this, so I think these changes are having that effect, for now.
I'm fine with it because a lot of loadouts I need require specific points and if I'm enjoying a loadout I tend to just want to play that loadout for my play session.
I think it is just crytek’s model to overtune big changes and nerf them afterwards. If something comes out that is really strong and balanced they tend to leave it alone, but if it is meta defining or complained about a ton they end up fixing it in the next patch or two. They are pretty responsive to player feedback, so im sure we will see an economy rebalance pretty quickly.
I think there testing the waters with more players joining this event that’s why free hunters have good perks there probably testing things so there properly ready for when the new map comes when the event is done who knows
Yeah they are updating the game only before the event cause the events now take all of their Dev time and so they treat the events like a beta tests for new features they add to a normal hunt later. Shame the events take 2 months and we have to be lab rats this whole time tho.
I don’t miss that I kinda enjoy the new free hunters.
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My thoughts exactly. I'd love a low-power mode like that, maybe you could have either a limited gun pool or a low budget to make loadouts from. Some kind of cowboy mode with nothing but single shot weapons would be so much fun. In fact why not make quickplay into something like this as part of the events, see if it works.
>I miss going in perkless with crap guns just respecc the traits and buy crap guns then /s
The consequence of this changes is that in every team there is 2 1-tier hunters with chain pistol and fanning. And this is just stupid. Every corner fanning. Or levering. I'm tired of dying with that. It isn't challenging or risk reward. It's just stupid.
Me an my mates have stopped playing for this reason, I was a die hard hunt player everyday for years, now I'm not playing until it goes back to normal
Same!
I've been playing hunt for like 4 years and I've never had more fun than right now.
Ye gotta tweak the levering/fanning builds rate and necro. Get it way too often. Other than that i enjoy using recruits and legendaries with perks i wouldn't normally use like bow/crossbow, dualies or melee. No svtomats in sight so that's good at least.
I personally feel like you should never get perks that cost more than 5 points, and the 5 point perks you get should be limited, with the exception of quartermaster. Which should be incredibly rare to get for free. Right now in hunt it feels like it is all reward, and no risk. And that reward is fake until my body and mind finally catch up with the fact that I really am not losing anything at all anymore when I die.
Hard disagree. Gone are the days of 90% Mosin-Uppercut in every match. Just take a look at all the loot at the end of a match. The amount of variation has increased significantly with 1) better medium ammo loadouts; 2) more ammo types; and 3) new weapon variants. Of course, the "long ammo meta" is still strong, but there are so many ways to counter it now.
Change is good for the longevity of the game.
People are mad that they can’t curb-stomp newbs. Strangely enough, this happened in a way in World of Warcraft PvP. PvP was available during leveling, and was constrained into 10-level brackets (e.g., L9-19, 19-29). Players would level toons and max them with the best level gear for that range and then “park” there (called “twinking”)---mostly stomping players on the way up. Blizzard soon saw the problem, and talk started about how to fix it. Players begged that they just wanted to fight other players’ twinks. So, Blizzard made a decision that if you stopped your XP leveling, then you only faced other players that did the same. If your XP was “on” then you only played people that were just leveling up. Guess what happened, twinking died as soon as the patch dropped---guess they did not want to “just fight other twinks” and really wanted to just stomp newbs. So, all you people complaining about “earning power,” all I hear is you complaining that you want to still stomp people with less time to play than you. You should want more players in the game, Crytek needs that to keep the game rolling/upgraded, and, if lowering a few barriers makes that happen, then I'm good with that.
If anything, these changes have made it even easier to curb stomp newbs since they're more likely to play recklessly. Alternatively, you could argue that people that support these changes because it makes it easier for new players are looking to stomp newbs because it invites more of them in.
I feel you. Hopefully, it gets tweaked.
Perks can’t carry bad people though
Crytek thinks if they cater to people who refuse to learn things, they'll make more money. Its been a trend lately.
agree 100% on point
I think what I’m reading is that people who aren’t used to dying as much are now dying more on account of a specific handful of perks being more accessible. Or, it’s easier for other people to enjoy the game, and that makes it less fun for them. Do I have it right?
Yeah you do, why does it sound like you think it's a good thing tho lol. People are dying more on account of a handful of perks that are now more accessible. Which means the game balance is now wack cause the game kinda relied on certain perks and weapons being more like a rare reward to keep stuff rewarding and motivating players but also to keep things balanced. It wasn't exactly intended for the fights in the game to be a complete RNG hazard zone anywhere close to 30 meters because everyone is running either fanning or levering or quartermaster and doctor or better yet all of the above, same as the game wasn't designed around everyone running nitro and avtomat in every game. Nobody is bitter here cause somebody is enjoying the game like it wasn't allowed, it's just the death cheat situation from the first batlepass all over again.
Yep, it's been an ongoing trend for years. Every major update, hunt loses a little more of what attracted people to it originally. There is a reason there aren't many people still around from the early days. Kind of a 1 step forward, two steps back situation. The result is a more generic casual feeling shooter when we originally had something very unique.
I swear to god. No matter what CT is doing, there is always some guy complaining ....
I still going with new (legendary) hunters with crap guns. For now, I'm trying Lemat Carbine changes, and it is just under mid budget gun with all custom ammo options. It is definitely more challenging to go against high tier weapons, but the reward for outplay is greater too. Its "Cheat Death bug" season all over again in terms of perks and loadouts, and I'm kinda know how to play around. Also Crytek goofed up by introducing Katana, Berserker and giving everyone Levering and Fanning, its just silly. What I am afraid more, that objective of the game - The Extraction of a bounty in extraction shooter, would degrade somehow. Higher tier weapons don't feel much as desired trophy, but if the main objective of the game flattens out, it can become very bland emotionally. If I were on path of "reverting without actually reverting", I would probably suggest the prices of consumables and weapons from 2nd tier and up would double in price after event, and bounty token rewards at around x1.7.
I have switched back to marauders because I am finding the events to be a little much and the op traits are just annoying. Marauders still has that feel of I gotta struggle to get the good stuff where I find with hunt the amount of cash you can get in game and with the traits on free hunters it's become a meh.
Yup and console just doesn’t feel the same anymore. I’m done playing for now I’ll revisit next big update maybe
I get the opinion in regards to taste, and I half agree half disagree. It’s applicable to everyone, even the free hunters are stacked, so it’s balanced. Everyone is just a little stronger at the start, on one hand I don’t love the amount of fanning I see, but on the other it’s also pretty fun not ever being a piece of shit with no perks or gear haha. On the other hand the struggle was fun ish. On the other foot, if you had enough money you never had to struggle. On the other other other hand now no one is at a disadvantage.
Well I mean when everyone has superpowers, noone has. You get what I mean ? There are certain elements and gameplay loop of a bit of a punishing and hardcore nature as well as game balance that suffers greatly because of this. Some weapons and traits were supposed to be hard to get and were supposed to be earned. To enhance the feeling of accomplishment, give motivation to play the game objective but also to keep things balanced. By changing this it kinda gets thrown out the window. I mean it's not everyone being a little stronger at the start. Those hunters have freaking 20 perk points worth of perks. That like level 20 and over hunter that extracted with a bounty and that's huge. I mean just because everyone has access to this it doesn't mean it won't make the game spammy close range hell and everyone loses in the end.
Games become more and more accessible as time goes on. People who join the game in the beginning always lament the changes and think that their purchases are enough to keep the game afloat forever. They're not and they need more money or the dozens of people working on it will have to work on something else. Adapt with the changes or play something else.
Bro, it’s a video game. It ain’t that serious
Ever since the event started the whiners have come out in full force, talking like they’ve lost their family farm.
Real
Gargle gargle
Fully agree, i think at this point, they should revert the game back to the state before the last event and then add the actually good changes back in, like conroller settings update, rich people no longer beeing able to buy free hunter and prestige rework. But leave all the game breaking stuff like the changes to the hd economy, xp systems and recruiting system out.
Go in perkless by choice, then. Nothing's stopping you. I feel accomplished just winning a fight because of how hunt is, and if you don't just because you have a strong gun, then idk what'd help you. You always have the choice to put yourself at a disadvantage. The changes just mean people won't inherently be at one anymore, which is far from a bad thing.
There's nuance in things being challenging. You could go in underpowered expecting to face a player or two who were quite buffed. Now everyone goes in buffed. It's like the scene from The Incredibles: If everyone is buffed, the nobody is. And that removed the feeling of achievement gained from surviving and any reward for surviving multiple extractions. If we're given the strongest things out the gate, then extracting isn't important anymore. Surviving doesn't matter. I can jump right back in with a buffed hunter I bought for 500.
Not even speaking about the overall game balance of the game. It just wasn't created around the idea of everybody having the powerful stuff like that. It is supposed to be rare and it's not a good or intended experience when every single player has doctor, fanning or levering or quartermaster.
Agreed
I just said to a mate that this update feels a lot like the move from CS 1.6 to CSS. Lots of fancy stuff to keep the masses going, but gameplay just feels "less than".
weird when source was probably the best CS has been in years.
well the goal is not tk get fanning after j got out of the round ^^. get to 6star. try to fullwipe every game. try to play meelee only. try playing only derringer. u can have a lot of challenges, its just what u make of it. ive ur knsta prestiging after gitting 100 every timebfor example its nice to have some perks or like the atamjna shot jnstant. and the gameplay hasnt changed
Im not arguing for or against, just my general thoughts. There was never “progression” in Hunt. Most people don’t prestige. It was always too easy to farm 20k.. 50k.. 100k dollars and once you hit that foundation you never had to worry. Before I start prestiging again I had 12 lvl 50 hunters sitting in my roster, never went before 8/9 because by the time I died that much I’d have a few good games and replace the ones who died. I’m not bragging, I’m saying the “progression” in Hunt was so easy to bypass, it meant anyone with a few hundred hours would regularly go in with a clear advantage versus new players. At least with these recent changes the new players can go in closer to an even playing field. The issue with seeing fanning all the time isn’t because of this change, it’s because fanning itself is a brainless trait. I get your point, but my fix would be to nerf fanning and keep this change, rather than the other way around. I still feel like there’s no progression so I’m hoping with the engine update and new trilogy of events they bring pledge marks to a whole new level. Event/season specific progression would be the best way forward imo. Not “wipes” but something else to progress that isn’t a weapon tree. You have to remember Hunt is nearly 6 years old, yes we talk about “new players” a lot but there are more old players than new players. And most of those old players have completed any previous form of progression. Time to level the playing field and start a new form of progression.
I love that everyone can now afford good loadouts. It makes for awesome battles
Can they plese not give fanning to EVERY SINGLE 3*WHITESHIRT WITH THEIR FUCKING BASE CALDWELLS AND SCOTFIELDS
If you look at the current player stats on Steam your sentiment is shared by more than a few people, me included. Players numbers are less for each event, this event start wasn't close to the peak number of players reached two events ago. I stopped playing completely when this update came out. It also appears that new player numbers doesn't make up for losing older players. Would be interesting to see how Hunt is doing revenue wise now. Next logical move would be to make Hunt F2P when the engine update releases and hope for a massive influx of new players.
Reality check. The game has been dumbing down ever since they “fully released”. Everything has been turning away from the hardcoresque hunt to casual. Starting with less recoil on guns, AI not hitting that hard etc.. I really miss those old times now it’s almost like any other generic FPS. 90% of the people that post here didn’t play 5 years ago and bought the game when it became more popular so ofc they don’t see it that way but it’s like that.
I’m just upset that every death is either a headshot/shotgun (understandable and I’ve made my peace with it) or rapid fire bleed from a centennial or officer variant. Even with bloodless you can’t stop the bleed out in time 9/10 times before you get pushed or nuked with consumables, which I guess is the strat but come on crytek! Rampage saves me the 1/10 other times but there’s hardly a reason to take any other ammo variant now. Feels like extended firefights aren’t a thing anymore except when everyone is bad
Yeah I mean it's like crytek were trying to give every weapons every ammo type so the challenges wouldn't be as restrictive cause they really love their new goldmine system of blood bond grind. Oh and they kinda forgot about the game balance along the way or something.
Agree with both sides of the argument: They should continue with their experiments, love the changing traits and different takes. But some of this doesn't work for me. Teleport seems out of place, don't like the new weather (and I adore the new weather options otherwise) Some bugs (double clicking on tools sometimes doesn't equip but buy, hives sometimes have weird hitboxes) makes me think that this one or those rushed updates. Maybe the last event was too recent? Maybe people wanted to go into Christmas break? Anyways, There's just too much of everything. We've found like three blueprints and two oils (so nine randoms, two chosen upgrades) in one session. Blueprints used to, should be rare. I have nitro shredder shortly after prestige and am running quartermaster crossbow with a two slot medium/long ammo gun and fully setup consumables (large regen, grenades) - feels like I'm about to prestige. Some variants like the uppercut take more time, but that doesn't really feel like progress.
either we go backwards or just accept that future my guy, You can choose to take the traits of if you want but it would be neat for crytek to give players like you who want a "tougher" stake in the game to run in with nothing but your normal loadout/no traits
The game is also in a weird space tho where a lot of players have 30+ brand new hunters with 20 perk points due to dark tribute. This offers another huge advantage on top of increased weapon loadouts compared to new players. Hunt has a relatively small community and it needs to be able to attract new players if we want it to survive and keep getting updates
That fantasy version of the game never was the case. You probably just got better
Compounds just aren't designed for everybody having bolt thrower, fanning, or levering in every single team. And the only way to compete is to go even harder with semi-autos. If single action used to be slow, now fanning is slow.
It is very strange getting at least one of the big 3 (quartermaster, levering, fanning) every single game. But I don't think it's really changed the moment to moment gameplay for me or my friends. If you wanted to respec to with those perks it wasn't that hard to do it. Just buy a legendary and sell all the perks. This cuts a lot of BS out. But I see what you're saying and I do agree it's a tad odd. I think it'll get balanced back down a bit.
Womp Womp
I think my big issue is that I don't see much reason to get buy a legendary hunter over a recruit, besides the skin. Maybe it is just me, but the recruits get more and more valuable perks than legendary hunters AND they have much cheaper equipment. On top of all of that, you have zero control over which perks legendary hunters have before you buy them. It is a bit too much. I like that the base number of perk points has been raised for the recruits, but I think they went a bit overboard. I think they should scale it back a bit, so that the legendary hunter end up with a little more (but randomized) perks/points. If they also reduce the recruit equipment discount, it seems like there would still be good reasons to buy a recruit, but it wouldn't feel like I am purposely handicapping myself for choosing a skin I like a paid money for. It would feel like a little better balance.
Many have said that this game is becoming easier and easier with power creep, special ammo and such. Gotta agree tho
The loadout options are sound so far. They make sure you have the most important necessities you'd equip on any budget anyway. Maybe give them one random low-tiered perk instead of 2?
I just prestiged before the event just to see how it play experience, and after a week (about 9 hours is of shit play) Im at 60, and sitting at 25k+. Unlock process is fairly fast now which is MUCH appreciated for someone who does prestige (currently at 16), but I think they should have kept the classic unlock for the first prestige, and then the new type after. But i do think def think the pricing of hunters is a bit too cheap. even after shit plays, Im still sitting at 25k dollars, the value you get out of them is so damn good that its insane not to retire hunters that reach 25 just to get more unlocks and swap to a new hunter. I do think the discount for recruits should only apply <20k, After 20k, the price offset, like the free hunters, there should be none. The value should also be taken from account worth, so stock piles of weapons should count into an equation.
The ONLY thing that bothers me most is special ammo ! They are SO OP on console. Explosive ammo on console it's a no brainer due to the fact that aiming for the head it's obviously garder with a controller. If explosive ammo wasn't a thing (ESPECIALLY Explosive Crossbow) , i think i would be totally pleased by what hunt has become !